The Breakfast Club - INTERVIEW: Bozoma Saint John Talks 'On Brand With Jimmy Fallon', Getting Engaged, Real Housewives + More

Episode Date: October 2, 2025

Today on The Breakfast Club, Bozoma Saint John Talks 'On Brand With Jimmy Fallon', Getting Engaged, Real Housewives. Listen For More!YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@BreakfastClubPower1051FMSee omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

This is an I-Heart podcast. Hi there, this is Josh Clark from the Stuff You Should Know podcast. If you've been thinking, man alive, I could go for some good true crime podcast episodes, then have we got good news for you. Stuff You Should Know just released a playlist of 12 of our best true crime episodes of all time. There's a shootout in broad daylight, people using axes in really terrible ways, disappearances, legendary heists, the whole nine yards. So check out the Stuff You Should Know true crime playlist.

I heart radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. I'm Jonathan Goldstein, and on the new season of heavyweight... And so I pointed the gun at him and said this isn't a joke. A man who robbed a bank when he was 14 years old. And a centenarian rediscovers a love lost 80 years ago. How can a 101-year-old woman fall in love again? Listen to Heavyweight on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. The murder of an 18-year-old girl in Graves County, Kentucky, went unsolved for years,

until a local housewife, a journalist, and a handful of girls came forward with a story. America, y'all better work the hell up. Bad things happens to good people. small towns. Listen to Graves County on the Iheart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast. And to binge the entire season ad-free, subscribe to Lava for Good Plus on Apple Podcasts.

Hey, I'm Jay Shetty, and I'm the host of the on-purpose podcast. Recently, I had a conversation with the one and only Madonna. When I was broke and I had no friends, know where to live. I was held up at gunpoint. I was robbed. Always horrendous things happened to me. I had such an unhappy childhood that whatever happened to me in New York is better than what my life was. So I'm not going back. Listen to On Purpose with Jay Shetty on the IHart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Oh no. Every day I wake up. Wake your ass up. The breakfast club.

Do y'all finish or y'all done? morning everybody is dj envy just hilarious charlamagne the guy we are the breakfast club lauraosa is here as well we got a special guest in the building she's back again ladies and gentlemen bozama st john thank you thank you thank you thank you both i love me in here i feel great you feeling good yeah last time we spoke to you i know you were uh we were talking about you were moving because of the things that happened with your house and the house burned down so just give us an update of what happened with that oh well it's been a crazy time i mean look it's like it's like Like, I think like everybody else, you know, the new year came.

It's like, oh, 2025 going to be my year. And then seven days later, my house burned down in Malibu. And I was like, oh, okay, you know. And the challenge of the house is that it was really my dream house. I fought hard for that house. I was actually just reading something about Harry Belafonte, who was trying to buy a property in the 1950s, an apartment here in Manhattan. And they were, you know, trying to keep him out because obviously he was black.

And I was like, damn, like, you know, 70 years later. I was facing the same thing in Malibu. You know what I mean? And so it was really, really devastating. But, you know, God, grace, grit, some tears, some anger, some lawsuits, because sometimes you've got to take it to your lawyers, you know what I mean? With insurance, they were just, I'm sure they just didn't want to say, oh, we'll cover it, you had to fight for that.

Oh, everybody's in trouble, you know? I mean, look, there was so much damage, so many people who didn't have, who lost everything that I don't know that it's possible, you know, to recover. And so sometimes you just got to, you know, get a little mean with it. You're going to rebuild in Malibu? I don't know. I'm not sure. What happens now?

I've only been there twice, you know, because it's very, very hard, you know, to see it. So the first time I went, it was like all in rubble. Yeah. And then I went back a couple of weeks ago. And it's like all cleared out now. So you can see the land. To the land, right. And it's just, it's a tough thing because I look at it and I'm like, man, but if I leave,

like when do I come back you know like when do I get another opportunity it was so hard to buy it so hard to buy they don't let black people buy land in Malibu just meaning that it was as an argument I had to put a trust inside of a trust so that nobody could find me

damn nobody would know that a single black woman was buying a property on the beach front of Malibu you know what I mean so did you actually go see the house or you know you couldn't go see the house because they would see a black woman coming to buy a house no I went to see the house like sort of undercover you know pretending like I was

just sightseeing and then sent my real estate agent who's a wonderful little Jewish woman lover to death and sent her to go to go do it and my business managers you know put my trust inside a trust and I have somebody who signs stuff for me so I don't never have to show up yeah that's how I got people really care like when they're selling a property because they make it money right I don't understand black green yellow yep look I wish I could answer that question but they really do care it's wild because even after we had closed the former owner tried to put a clause

after the contract was done saying that he could have access to my beach through my house I was like you gotta be kidding me I'm gonna be walking like literally I was like crazy

too there was some bones I was like the audacity you know what I mean I was like I own this house now you no longer own it and if you come as trespass and I will call the cops on you

wow how has your family been really good yeah It's like my daughter, who's 16, really loved the house, you know. And it's a, it's a hard thing to go through, you know. Grief upon grief is a hard thing. For sure.

But we're managing. Okay. Thank you. You also, since we last thing, you got engaged. Yes. And that's crazy because I was in your business. Yo, it's like I knew. This is why I want to see Lauren today.

Because last time I was here, we were talking about me and my man. And then I think you said, like, you know, are you guys like, is he going to to propose like what's going to happen because it was I think it was your birthday trip yeah and when you posted I was like she they are so happy they are so in love I love this for her remember I told you to go call him you don't call him I never called you ain't called you didn't know you know her fiancee no no you didn't call her fiance to see if he had any friends for you at the time when you was looking because she was looking she was looking hard don't say looking hard I was like and God do whatever he needed to do

it I'm in a great place now God is good amen look at me look at But back to you. We're going to catch a spirit, so I'm running around. But, yeah, so last time you was here, we talked about it. And you were like, you know, I do want to, you know, family is my thing. Yeah, yeah. And then a surprise proposal happened. Yes.

And you, I read the people exclusive. It said you were actually surprised, which I find it hard for you to be surprised. It's very difficult to surprise me. I mean, you guys like, look, first of all, I feel like I'm psychic. Yeah. Next, I'm like, I see people's movements and I'm like, why do you say that? Why did you do that? Now, the thing that tipped me off a little bit, I knew someone.

thing was happening was that he's a traveler, you know, we both love to travel a lot, and we exchange voice notes and video messages constantly, all day long. And we had gone to London from my sister's wedding, and afterwards I had to return home to continue filming the Real Housewives of Beverly Hills. And he said he was going to stay in Europe and just travel around a little bit. And so he's like in Rome. He's sending me videos of his tour. He's in Paris. He's like doing all these things. And then he's like, oh, you know I think I'm a stop by Mumbai and I was like India you know what I mean he's like yeah yeah I've never been I think I'm gonna go so okay you know so he goes he was there for a week

and I was getting like you know messages but they were always from his room and or like he would be outside and you know so I was like hmm why would he be in India now the thing is these two rings that I wear constantly yes I got both of them in India on different trips right and they were kind of like my own, like, you know, I love myself type ring because I, you know, I didn't, I hadn't purchased expensive jewelry for myself before. Yeah. And the, and this band I actually bought from Priyanka Chopra's jeweler when I went to her wedding. And so I love India for his jewels, first gems, all that stuff.

And so that's when I was like, is he in India to get me some, like, a ring? So that was the only thing that kind of my spidey senses were going. But I wasn't sure. And, you know, you don't want to ask all the way. So when he proposed, I was surprised because I wasn't expecting it. And then when he said he'd been in India for my ring, I was like, put two and two together. That's what it was for.

My spidey senses weren't wrong. I was going to travel. I'm going to Rome today. It didn't have. Right. Paris. Like, that's not a place. You know, I'm just going to stop.

You know, I'm just going to get some crazy. I'm going to get some crazy. We're enjoying life. I'm really happy for you, though. I mean, you mentioned earlier, like, you know, even with your daughter and you dealing with grief on grief, it's like, you know, your ex-husband and then your house. And it's like kind of like watching a fairy tale play out. So, like, I'm happy to see that for you. I don't know what it's been like.

Because sometimes, too, I think when people go through such hard hits back to back, they shut down. They don't want to open up to stuff like that. Yeah. So I don't know what that's been like for you as well. But that's the thing is that I don't know that you can get a wound and that. then, you know, want to repeat that same pain. You try to avoid it at all costs, you know? And so I think for me, part of it has been, for sure, like, trying to understand how to

heal my grief, but also having some courage. Yeah. You know, and being like, you know what? I could hurt before, but I'm going to do it again. Yeah. And it won't hurt this time, you know? And that's the only way to actually move forward is that you have to tell yourself that. otherwise you will be in a cave and I'm not even like judging anybody who's like

lost a partner or like to death or any other way and they feel trapped you know and feel like I can't get out of my own way I don't even blame them for that because I certainly understand but yeah I love love and I I love happiness and I love joy and it is an active thing that I'm doing every day to choose it did he asked your daughter first or did you he did I was going to say because when he asked me like hold on let me talk to my My daughter, that's right. I come back like. Yes, yes.

Well, contrary to popular belief, I am a traditional woman in that way that he flew to my father and asked him for my hand. It's the only way to do it. He asked my mother and he asked my daughter. Wow. Yeah, before asking me. I love it. I'm like, check in with all my people. Then you check in first?

Did everybody say, cool? Yeah. Everybody say you all right? Then you all right. I love it. Now, do we have any other little bosomers that we need to be looking? Right, right. looking for it. No, not now, but we are interested.

Okay. And so I have been on a fertility journey for the last six or seven months. It's been really tough, you know, because I'm 48. I'm almost 49. Damn, you look good. That's good. Thank you. Jesus.

Thank you. Baby, Bob, it's matched. Everybody, look, and I mean, I don't know if, you know, you've ever experienced it, but it's like going through the hormonal journey, you know, taking the medication. taking the injections, like getting the checkups, getting the eggs extracted. It is such a difficult process on your body. I mean, it's like not just the gaining weight and the bloating,

but it's like the emotional roller coaster. And I'm trying to do a million things. I know. You know what I mean? So much going on on top of all your other businesses that you have. Yes. And so it's like this, and it is a dream because unfortunately when I was pregnant, I've been pregnant twice.

and the first time I was pregnant I developed preeclampsia early and unfortunately my daughter didn't survive her birth I also had preeclampsia with Laelle's pregnancy and it was just traumatic you know both experiences were terrible and thank God that Lael survived

and she's such a wonderful person and she gives me hope for the future but I have to say that for the last 15 years I was like oh I'm not going back there I'm not going to try that again. I understand. You know?

And it wasn't until I met Keely and he doesn't have any kids that he was like, you know, should we try? And I was like, oh, I don't know. That's, I don't know if I can do it. And he was like, well, maybe we need to get a second and third and fourth opinion. And we found this amazing doctor, this black woman who deals in fertility. And she was like, yeah, we can do it. We should try. I was like, okay, this is a last show.

Because girls, about to close up shop up here. So let's go, let's do it. Let's try, see what happens. For people that don't know, how did you meet, Kiley? How did y'all meet? So this is a crazy story. How much time do we have? We got a little bit of time.

Let me let me let it breathe. So, as I said, I choose love, but it's been difficult because I also don't want to bring any just random old people into my life, especially with my daughter. And I was in a relationship that I thought. was going to be you know it was like finally after like 12 years like oh my gosh this is going to be it uh and unfortunately ended terribly you know he stepped out there was a lot of betrayal a lot of broken heart going on um and i was in the middle of trying to gather the pieces of my heart and also

try to figure out what i was going to do next with my career because i had uh retired from corporate life published my book and then i was like in this down period so it was like i had a broken heart and I couldn't figure out what to do with my career. And I decided I want to start my own business, you know, in hair and beauty. And so I just poured my whole self into it. And I knew that I wanted to call the business Eve after my first daughter and also after the fact that, of course, Eve in the Bible and Eve in Science is the first woman. And she's from Africa. So come on, you know what I mean? So I was like, okay, that's going to be the one. And as a marketer, I'm always looking for inspiration, you know, in visuals and stories.

and I did a lot of research about Eve and I was looking for pictures of a Black Eve. Couldn't find none. You know, they were all pale and red-headed. Only the rapper Eve came up. Rough Riders. Rough Riders was the only other one, okay? The only one.

And I found, through the work, I found this artist, Harmonia Rosales, who's black Cuban woman. She came, she's come to fame because she has taken like the old master's work, like Da Vinci and Michelangelo and recreated them using black orishas from West Africa. So basically it's like, you know, there's a famous painting called The Birth of Venus. And she redid it and she put a black Oshun in the place of Venus because that's where they got it from.

You know, it's like all of those Greek and Roman gods and goddesses came from the Euryshas. And so I found her work because she has a new project. coming and I was like oh my god gotta go see it so I flew to Atlanta where she was having exhibition at Spelman and made friends and I was like yo I want to be a collector of your work like I was so in love with it and I'll cut right to the end I a few months later I went to her home for a private showing and miss Tina's up in there you know everybody's at LeBron everybody's in there you know trying to collect her work and um her husband pulls me aside and he's like hey you know, harm has been working on this piece.

She thinks it's yours. By the way, her wait list is like two years long. So I was like, oh, shoot, let me. So she takes me to the back to the studio. She unveils it. And it's a painting of Eve in the center of the painting. And I just broke down into tears because I was like, yo, this has got to be a sign. And so we're talking.

We become much more friendly. Her husband says, hey, look, like, you know, this kind of inappropriate, but, you know, what's up with your love life? Like, you're such a dope woman, like this and that. I was like, oh, I don't want to talk about it. I don't want to go there. And he was like, look, like, I know somebody who's interested in you because they saw a picture of you from the showing that we did in Atlanta.

And I was like, oh, who's that? He's like, oh, it's my uncle. I was like, now, do I look like I date uncle? Don't look like 80s? How are you saying? Okay, because this man's grown. And so I was like, oh, this is giving uncle here? Right.

And it was funny because I was sitting with my friend Aisha Hines, who's an actress. and she was like, girl, you probably want to see the uncle first. I was like, I don't want to see no uncle. But then he went to his Instagram. Oh, shit. That's right. And I was like, oh, see, because we're black. And the thing is, in our families,

sometimes uncles are like two years older. You know what I'm saying? So uncle was the right age and looked good. And it was Keeley. And so he introduced us and the rest of his history. How was the first day? The first day was great. Oh, my gosh.

The first date, he lived. in San Diego and I live in Los Angeles. What country did y'all go to for the first date? Well, girl, let me tell you. Because the first and second date were fantastic. And then he asked me on the third date and I was like, oh, you know, I'm going to be in Ghana for December, Christmas. I'm like gone for like a month. And he was like, all right, then I'll come to Ghana. Girl, yeah. And the man, yeah, and he flew to Ghana. And we had our third date on New Year's Eve.

And I would have proposed right there. There we go. I love that. Yes. So he's wonderful. He's wonderful, yes, but thank you. I'm very happy. Well, you talked about the, kind of talked about it. She's stuttering. She's thinking about her home life. I'm like, it's so good. She's like, my man fly the Ghana for me.

I'm going to, that's what we need. There you go. We are. We are good. Because if he wanted to, he would. That's right. All right. And he do.

Okay, man. Okay, amen, amen. So your new show, on brand, Jimmy Fallon on NBC. Because I know you were filming for that show while Keeley was getting the whole surprise engagement together. So it all kind of ties into where you are now. Yeah. Oh, my gosh.

It's such an amazing thing, I'm telling you. Yeah. Because the thing is, you know, over the course of my career, and it's weird because, of course, like, you look at my resume and people are like, oh, my God, this amazing resume, you worked at Pepsi and Apple and Netflix and Denver and Uber and like all these places. But when I tell you that the moves from place to place, people were not supportive. You know, they'd be like, oh, why would you leave this job to go? over here like when I joined Uber as a chief brand officer I was the head of

global marketing for Apple music and launched it right people were like why would you leave Apple and and go to Uber because at the time it was failing and it was like you know headed south and I was like look this is where like my intuition is calling me that's where I got to go and I don't care what your opinions are right I did that over and over and over again and when I joined the housewives people were like yo you're gonna destroy your Like you, you know, you're in the Hall of Fame. Like, why would you go be on TV and fight women?

And I was like, no, but do I have to do that? Like, I don't feel like that's what I need to do. Like, why can't we showcase a different type of woman on this show? And it was in the first episode of the Housewives where they were, you know, basically going over my career and my resume. And Jimmy's wife was watching the show. Oh, wow. And unbeknownst to me or anybody else, Jimmy had been trying to sell this show to NBC for two years.

And it's a marketing reality competition show, kind of like Apprentice or Project Runway, et cetera. And when he was pitching, they told him that he needed somebody to legitimize the show. And so he met with a bunch of CMOs. Nobody was really clicking until his wife was like, yo, this woman Bose right here? she's on housewives and he was like I don't know if I was looking really for that kind of woman you know that kind of person but he watched the season

he was like you're great and so he called me we had a meeting and it just felt like the perfect combination of everything you know it's like I have 25 years of corporate experience in marketing I know how to manage

the brands like I know what a pitch looks like and even in the episodes that were filming there's an example of Southwest, which was one of the clients on the show, where the assignment was to wrap a plane. And what's crazy

is that 14 years ago, when I, or 12 years ago, when I joined Beats and was running Beats' music, the way to get, you know, a lot of people to hear it was to put it into airplanes, right?

And no one would do it, except for Southwest. And then in my marketing with them I was like you know what in order for people to see it I want to wrap the plane and I put headphones on all the planes and so we're standing there and they're giving the assignment to these contestants like okay you got to wrap a plane a southwest plane and talk about more leg room and I was like oh I did that 12 years ago you know what I mean and so for me it's been an incredible just it feels like divine alignment you know that I've done the business done the work I'm on TV.

I understand how to be fast and what it takes to be in front of the camera. And so this was just a perfect marriage of all those things. I love it. So, all right, so I want to talk about the show because I do have some questions about the agency, but tying Real Housewives into the show,

I know people were surprised, not surprised, because y'all have talked about kind of mending, but when we saw Kyle post your billboard, like, oh, yeah. Oh, yeah. Oh, my God, Bose. Yeah, yeah. Yeah, yeah.

I'm really excited and happy for you. Hi there. This is Josh Clark from the stuff You Should Know podcast. If you've been thinking, man alive, I could go for some good true crime podcast episodes, then if we got good news for you. Stuff You Should Know just released a playlist of 12 of our best true crime episodes of all time. There's a shootout in broad daylight. People using axes in really terrible ways, disappearances, legendary heists, the whole nine yards. So check out the Stuff You Should Know true crime playlist on the IHeart Radio app, Apple

podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. All I know is what I've been told, and that's a half-truth is a whole lie. For almost a decade, the murder of an 18-year-old girl from a small town in Graves County, Kentucky, went unsolved, until a local homemaker, a journalist, and a handful of girls came forward with a story. I'm telling you, we know Quincy killed her. We know. A story that law enforcement used to convict six people, and that, got The Citizen Investigator on national TV. Through sheer persistence and nerve,

this Kentucky housewife helped give justice to Jessica Curran. My name is Maggie Freeling. I'm a Pulitzer Prize-winning journalist, producer, and I wouldn't be here if the truth were that easy to find. I did not know her and I did not kill her, or rape or burn or any of that other stuff that y'all said. They literally made me say that I took a match and struck and threw it on her. They made me say that I pour gas on her.

From Lava for Good, this is Graves County, a show about just how far our legal system will go in order to find someone to blame. America, y'all better work the hell up. Bad things happens to good people in small towns. Listen to Graves County in the Bone Valley feed on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or we're ever you get your podcasts. And to binge the entire season ad-free, subscribe to Lava for Good Plus on Apple Podcasts. I started trying to get pregnant about four years ago now.

We're getting a little bit older, and it just kind of felt like the window could be closing. Bloomberg and IHeart Podcasts present. IVF disrupted, the kind body, story, a podcast about a company that promised to revolutionize fertility care. Introducing Kind Body, a new generation of women's health and fertility care. Backed by millions in venture capital and private equity, it grew like a tech startup. While Kind Body did help women start families, it also left behind a stream of disillusioned and angry

patients. You think you're finally like with the right people in the right hands. And then to find out again that you're just not. Don't be fooled. By what? All the bright and shiny. Listen to IVF disrupted, the kind body story, starting September 19 on the I-Heart Radio app,

Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. I'm Jonathan Goldstein, and on the new season of heavyweight, I help a centenarian mend a broken heart. How can a 101-year-old woman fall in love again? And I help a man atone for an armed robbery he committed at 14 years old. And so I pointed the gun at him and said this isn't a joke. And he got down, and I remember feeling kind of a surge of like, okay, this is power.

Plus, my old friend Gregor and his brother tried to solve my problems through hypnotism. We could give you a whole brand new thing where you're like super charming all the time. Being more able to look to people in the eye. Not always hide behind a microphone. Listen to HeavyWade on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. So in real life, like once you guys do things like the reunions and the show is over and then, because it seems like y'all are up and down. What's your relationship with her in real life when these things happen? Because then she's posting the billboard.

Right, right, right. Okay, so they're cool again. Let me tell you time. These feelings are all real. Okay? That's the one thing I didn't know. going into the show was that if you are, you know, not feeling somebody, you're not feeling them for real. You know what I mean? And I think the other thing that confuses people about these

shows, and I didn't know that when I went in, is how much time, how much intense time you're spending with them. You know, it's like we filmed for three and a half months. You're spending eight hours days, six days a week with these people. And it's not like you go in and you're like, oh, what's the weather like? No, you're like, what's happening with your divorce? Yep. You know what I mean? And you're talking deeply about these things. And so, of course, like, Your emotions get caught up in it and you get to know people so much better than you would in your regular life. I mean, at that time, it's like, look, I talk to my, I have three sisters. And I was talking to them less than I was talking to these women every day.

And so last year, Kyle and I had a tough time because I just felt like she should be more open and honest about her life. I was like, hey, look, we're all sharing. You know, like, I'm going through a lot. And I'm sharing. You know, why don't you share what's going on with you? And the thing is that, like, if we are meant to get to know each other, were meant to be friends. Like, if you're going to keep me a light with me,

then I'm keeping a light with you. Right. You know what I'm saying? Like, why am I going to tell you all my business and you don't want to tell me anything? And she felt away about it because I said she was cold. You know, but that was the truth. That was the experience I was having.

But in this current time, we've crossed that bridge, you know? And I think maybe to, you know, give her some grace, it is that she also is going through a hard time and she wasn't necessarily open to being like, oh, here's a new girl. Let me just tell her everything. And not everybody's the same. You know, DeRite was very open with like all of her drama.

And so, yeah, we became closer. And I wasn't as close to Kyle. But we're in a much better place now. And so the joy that she feels about my success in this show with Fallon is real. Now, on the show, you're basically like tag teaming with Fallon, but he's the boss of the agency and you are the chief marketing officer. Yeah. Right. So, I mean, you explain how you got there, but how real are like the campaigns?

So I've only watched some of the first episode. And I know they're really dealing with the brands. You guys are working with Dunkin' Donuts in the first episodes. Are they really taking these strategies and actually applying them? Or is it just for the show? Yes. And that's the hard thing is that they're spending millions of dollars. So after I leave here today, I'm going over to Dunkin' Donuts.

Because the episode that just aired was about essentially recreating what a deal would be. Right. You walk into Dunkin' Donuts. You want a breakfast deal. going to look like and it is in the store right now you know and duncan like spent millions of dollars on this campaign and every single brand that comes uh does that and so these are real briefs they have real business issues that need to be solved and so you know it's like they're they're trusting us as much as we are putting faith into what these creatives can do it was so it's so wild that you said that

last night i get at night when i have six kids right so at night when the kids are sleeping yeah i just have random thoughts kind of like like you do sometimes right and my random thought last night was like look if I was trying to get in the marketing industry in the commercial industry I was like what I would do is I would shoot commercials for every brand I could possibly yeah that's what you're supposed to use internet right but like and I would like because I'm watching the Yankee game I would like I would do a commercial on Yankees to get more people in the seats and I would just post it and I said I would do every brand one brand is going to hit me yeah one brand's going to hit me yeah and I'm thinking myself why don't why don't some of these kids that are getting out of college why

don't they do guerrilla marketing like that it's money too what you've done what you've done was gorilla marketing no that's true and you know what's so crazy about that is that regardless of the company i've worked for i've always been pitched like and when people know that i work there right because i've been a public figure in the business world for some time and so if they know it's like oh i'm the chief marketing officer of netflix you know how many films and tv shows i've been pitched over the years a lot you know when i was at apple people like oh you know i got a new idea for some technology. I got a new app that I want to pitch you. Or at Pepsi, people will be like, oh, I have a new drink flavor, nutmeg Pepsi. No, that discussion. You know what I mean?

Like, everybody has ideas. And so you're absolutely right. I don't know why people don't take it upon themselves to be like, you know what? Let me try something. Let me like put some creative out there. And this is what now the show is doing, is that these folks aren't like, they're not practice industry leaders. You know, there's a swim instructor in there. There's a swim instructor in there. There's a real estate agent in there. Because you can do everything with the phone. You have an iPhone. You can ever go on the computer.

It's not like before when you needed a camera and you needed a right camera and had to, no, you can do everything on your phone. And like you said, if I'm looking for a business, I'm like, if I do 20 commercials, hopefully if they're good, one of those 20 people are going to reach out. Exactly. And I think that's the opportunity right now. And I'm actually hoping that that's what happens. It's like people see this because the only challenge with like up and doing something is

that if you don't know what the brief is, you don't know what the. businesses strategy is or what they're they're trying to accomplish you're going to miss the mark even if you have a great creative idea right but in this case it's like we're actually telling you this is what dunkin don't is trying to do this is what southwest is trying to do this is what kitchenate is trying to do and so i'm like every week you should be like doing your own pitch and posting it and engaging and tagging everybody in it and being like hey kitchenate i got a better idea than these 10 people that are on the screen that's right you know what i mean because now you heard the strategy you might as well like try and hit it

it so for me it's like this is a real opportunity for new people to get into the industry and into the idea of marketing going back to what you said when you said you were you were at netflix and people were trying to pitch films or you were at you know Pepsi somebody had a different flavor they wanted to pitch you every single time what was the process to that like what was it just no or you got to email somebody or whatever yeah that's the hard part is that before it was almost impossible you know it was impossible for me to get into the the building. You know what I mean? I crawled through the window in order to get into those rooms. It wasn't like, you know, anybody opened the front door for me. And so it's like, yeah,

sometimes you know, I would see a great idea or hear a great idea and I'd be like, all right, here, call me, you know, or email me. Most of the time, the ideas weren't great because, yeah, they didn't know the strategy and so it's impossible to then have the idea. But it's interesting. There have been a number of times where I remember at PepsiCo, there's a janitor who would often be like, hey, like, you know, I have some ideas, you know? And he eventually is the one who created Flaming Hot Cheetos. I remember. I think we spoke to him or did I see a doc? Oh, you might have seen a doc.

I seen a doc. He's great. He's great. I love his story. You know what I mean? It's like, so the ideas really can't come from everywhere, but you kind of have to have some insight into what's happening on the business. in order to make happen. Now, the good thing about this current time is that most brands aren't keeping their strategy behind closed doors. If you go on their Instagram, you're probably

going to figure out their strategy real quick. You just see who are they targeting? What is the message that they have? What's a tagline? I mean, it's almost easy. So to Envy's point, it's like you should have the gumption, you know, to try it. Like, that's the way grates are made. It's like you try. And if you don't succeed, what they say. Try and try again. Do you think AI is hurting a lot of the jobs that require thinking, right? Because I can see somebody saying, yeah, Bose is good, but she's going to cost us too much money. Let me put this in the AI app and say, Dunkin' Donuts, marketing, what would Bose do? And it's going to come up with something that they've seen you do before and they base it off things.

So do you think that hurts the industry? Because a lot of people, they live and die by AI. I mean, you've got AI artists. You got so many things. Right. I know. Here's the interesting thing about AI. First of all, I'm not afraid of AI. You know, I've worked in tech for a decade

and all of the companies that were always pushing the limits. I mean, look, I was at the cusp when we started doing personalization and algorithms. So, you know what I mean? It was like, it was scary for people. They were like, why do you know so much information about me? I'm like, because you'll be mad at me if I give you Metallica when you're looking for Snoop Dog.

Yeah, you know what I'm saying? But whatever. Now everybody's used to it, so it's okay. It's the same thing with AI. It's like, look, we use it constantly anyway. It's been used. Now it's like in the hands of consulting. consumers. And so it feels a little scary or it feels like, oh my gosh, it's going to take this job or that job. But honestly, it's been in existence for some time. And on top of that, you got to remember that AI uses information that already exists. It doesn't create things that don't exist in the world. And so that's where I feel like humanity is at its best. Like we are the dreamers. We're the imaginers. We're the ones who are thinking about what could be the possibilities. AI doesn't have that that option. And so it's pulling from data that.

already exists and then putting it together and then sort of guessing and estimating what could happen. You know, there's this idea of like a hallucinating AI, right, or chat GPT, where it's like, it makes up something because there's no space, you know, and it's usually not accurate. And now I'm not saying that AI is not going to get better. It certainly will. And perhaps at some point it's going to do a good job of predicting. But I still think that from a creative standpoint, there are nuances that are going to be hard to solve in tech that humans can't do. Yeah, the only problem with AI, the biggest problem I have with AI is a lot of people don't fact check, right? They think AI is factual, right?

That's A and B, and I can't hate on this too much because I think I would do it too. When I'm in college and you have to write a paper, right? Oh, Lord. You had to research, right? You had to go to the library or you had to look it up, you had to Google, you had to find out what the information is. Yes. Think about it like this. You have your daughter here, right?

She could just say, I have to write a paper on this, that, you'll enter. It's going to give you 10 pages. Now, as a smart student, all you got to do is go through the 10 pages and change words to make it sound like yourself. But pretty much it's done. Yeah. But how does that help you?

It doesn't because you're not necessarily learning the subject. You're not learning. You're just printing and you're getting an A on a paper. Does that help you in the long run? See, now here's where I have a controversial point of view. I actually do think it's good. Okay. Because it is like, and this is why.

I disagree when people say that they don't want to give their kids iPads or have them on the computer or this and that. Because I'm like, but then you are depriving them of understanding how to cope in a world that does that. You know, so the point is that AI, chat GPT, all these programs are here to stay. And so I would prefer that my daughter understand how to utilize chat GPT, AI, and all these other programs and get the right answer. Because you're only going to get the right answer if you put in the right questions. And so she doesn't have that practice. In 10 years, she will be lost because everyone else out here would have perfected how to get the right answer out of AI and she won't know.

I would have been slutting AI out when I was in college. What's crazy? Have you been to AI? I would have been using that only. Yes, but now that's a challenge for professors. You're right, right? And teachers, it's like, okay, how are you going to modify the way that you teach so that you can make sure that your students are retaining information

and knowing how to utilize these. subjects because look now I'm going to I already told you I'm 48 years old when I got to college we didn't have a computer lab okay there was no there was no such thing broke-ass college did you go again yeah we were we went to college around the same time Hampton had a computer lab there was there when the computer lab opened and you had to sign up on the sheet you know what I mean to go in you can't everybody don't get their on computer No, exactly. No, we went in the library out here.

No, look, it didn't exist. It did not exist. And so you had to go to library. We had the encyclopedias. You had to find to L. You know what I'm saying? And look, it was terrible. But even on that, from that standpoint, right,

you don't want, you don't think it's important for kids to know that part of it too. They have a foundation. It's like, what if, no. No, you got to think about it. No, you got to think about it. No. My kid don't know. All technology.

Well, all the technology, we know with one, it's glitches. Yes, yes, yes. It can shut down. It can be taken away. I know it's here to stay, but like, say if it's a glitch or something or something don't go right. It's definitely wrong, too. Then stuff definitely can go wrong. We would need to be able to know how to go and search for stuff in books or whatever.

You know, any, you don't agree with that. I believe in humanity. I'm like, if something happened and all technology failed, I think we would find our way back, you know. However, I do believe. that tech is here to stay. So my example with like going to the library and looking through the encyclopedia is that once Google was at our fingertips

and search engines were at our fingertips, when was the last time you looked in encyclopedia? You need to understand how to search for the right thing and get the right answer and discern what is truth from fiction. Now that's the skill you need today. You don't need to understand how to like find llamas in the encyclopedia.

You know, I need to know that a llama does not look like an alpaca. You know, when I search for it on Google. And if I see a picture of the two, I can discern which one is which. And that is the trick that we need to instill in our children and in educators and everybody else is that, like, we've got to teach the new skills. We can't just depend on what happened 15 years ago. You know, you can take a picture of an animal right now put in Chagi Beach and say, what is this in it? It's exactly what it is. That's crazy.

Matter of fact, I'm like, great. Tell me. And also, what is this bump on my toe? Tell me what that is. Then that's where it gets dangerous. You know what? You got to bump on your toe. You think it's cancer.

And you should take your ass to the doctor. You know what I'm saying? It's a bad. It's like, this is abnormal. You think you got cancer for a weekend. Go to the doctor. And you died yesterday. Exactly.

And you didn't go. And that's your fault. You know what I mean? There's a woman on the show, speaking of age and different, like, just eras of knowing. No, because look, there's a woman on the show. And one of the things that stuck out for me with her was, she says,

I believe I'm here and I'm doing this at 50. Yeah. Are marketing agencies hiring younger because they expect you to know all the stuff you all just talked about? Of course. Is that so people are getting aged out of hiring? For sure. For sure.

Because the thing is that marketing and a lot of creative industries are young people's game, you know, because I think the challenge with being older and more mature is that you've lived life. And so you censor yourself, you know, you'll be like, oh, this idea is not good because I tried it 12 years ago and it didn't work. Or like, oh, I saw this other person do it. You know, you ever met like a 17 year old with an idea?

Yeah. Look, they out here, they think it's the best thing that ever happened. And it probably is. You know, because they have gumption and they have imagination and they are fearless because they haven't seen it fail. But us, you'll be like, oh, try and do this new thing. I'm like, ah, that's not going to work

because X, Y, Z thing. It's not going going to work because we already tried it. Meanwhile, the 17-year-old is like, hmm, I'm going to try it. I don't know any different. And so, yeah, I think that creative fields, and for sure, marketing and advertising is geared towards younger people. But you do need the maturity of time to be able to have discipline, you know, and be like, okay, look, here's a business problem. We got to focus on that. And so that's why I feel like it kind of balances itself out because you need more mature people who have time on the books to be able to drive the business.

any young people who are fearless to come up with the ideas That's right Were you at all nervous I know you guys talk about marketing And numbers and stuff on your show But were you at all nervous

When all of the Kimmel stuff was happening Oh yeah Just because I know you guys Bring some of those talk show hosts Onto your show And you're like, dang, I just got this job Yeah, yeah No, of course

I mean I think we should all be worried about everything Yeah You know what I mean? I'm like yeah For sure when it's like Colbert Colbert got fired

And then Kimmel got suspended I'm like looking at Phalan like Hey They don't take those story now You know what I mean? What you do? What are you talking about? Right. And the thing that I respect about him so much is that he definitely wasn't trying to censor himself.

He's like, hey, this is what I do. This is all I know. I've got to keep going. And I respect that because for me, it's like, look, I've been in plenty of rooms where it would be easier not to be black. It'd be easier not to bring my perspective that is so unique to everybody else's in the room. But you do it anyway, even though you know, somebody's going to be like, oh, you said the wrong thing and you should be fired. You know what I mean? Threats I've had around.

that and that had nothing to do with the president you know and so I feel like at this moment in time there is so much to be concerned about and I wish that more people were anxious about that and saying like well how do we make sure that we protect all of these like areas that we've created so that we can actually continue to be creative to be funny to be a little outlandish you know without having to censor I feel you I got one last housewise question okay taking a left turn but I just thought about this Garcel, I'm following you guys after she left the show. Oh, gosh, yeah.

So she really did unfollow y'all. That wasn't like a fan theory. No. Why? You know, that's a really hard question. I wish I knew. I really do. Like, this is not even like me being politically correct.

Like, I wish I knew. When I went on Watch What Happens Live with Andy right after she decided to resign. And, you know, he asked me how I felt about. And I was like, man, I just, I wish she didn't because I would like to actually work out whatever the challenges were that she was having on the show or with me personally, right? And it just, you just don't have that option. And so it's a lot like having a breakup where you don't get access to the person anymore. And you kind of have to have closure on your own.

And a lot of times people are like, oh, they're not over the thing because they didn't get their closure. But I'm like, you could close that door yourself too. Yeah. So if that's what she needed to do, then good for her. I mean, I still follow her. I'm still interested in what she's doing. I'm still cheering, but

You attempted to try and reach out to her and talk to her? Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, I did. Nothing. No, no, no, she responded, but it wasn't like, oh, let's go back lunch. Why, do you want to follow me? You know what I mean? Yeah, no, no. I was just like, hey, look, like I wish you the very best, you know,

and I want you to succeed, and I wish this would have worked out. And she said, thank you, Bose. And that, you know, that's it. So it's amicable. Yeah. I do have a question. Now, you're engaged. Yes.

How much do you think y'all going to spend on a wedding? Oh, God. A lot of money. A lot because I want two weddings. Well, we want two weddings. One in Los Angeles. You said it right for a year. I know, girl.

That slipped up like a boat. I want two weddings. I mean, we. Why are you calling me out? I'm sorry. Okay. Damn it. They're right.

Yes. Well, we want one. We both want one in L.A. I really want one in Ghana. Okay. So we're going to do both. And it's going to cost a lot of money. Yep.

I mean, look. Jesus. Who pays for that? Well, we both do. Damn. This man said, look, you got the wedding. I flew to Ghana for the third date. Yeah, you got the wedding this time and gone.

And wait to go get the ring. Right. And when he's going to get the ring in Mumbai. I mean, you know, he knows who he's married. Yes. You know what I'm saying? There's no surprises. There's no surprises.

I'm like, we're going to do it big. Yeah. I want everybody there. Jesus Christ. Yes. Oh, that's the thing. Yes. Oh, yeah.

You're going to have to pay for it. They got a gazed in Greece and Nicos. Oh, my God. Yeah, so. Yeah, you're going to have to pay for that. You see, he doesn't look excited because he's already counting his pockets right now. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, it's a lot of money. And his daughter and her fiancé wanted to get married at the same castle that the Casey's was married at.

I got married 24 years ago. Exactly. I'm like, there's inflation. So when I got the new price, I was like, Jesus, yes, this is a lot of money. And they was like, yeah, that's just for the venue. I still got to do. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. They're renovated and everything. Yeah, exactly.

We need 100 racks. You know what I'm saying? To the hundred racks. I wish that's the starting price of just the beginning yeah I'm just getting the things I called the other day

they was like we give you 10% of I like 10% what the fuck 10% of it's 10% gonna do damn oh my goodness I don't mind spending you know I just feel like these moments are they are so special you know and work so hard

yes and been through so much I'm like I want to celebrate I want everybody to be there I want to have a great time and I'm going to spend the money do it. So, yes. Well, Bose, if you need extra workers on the weekend,

I can help. I need some money. Same. If you have a dog, I can clean up the dog pool, but, you know. I love that. Cut the grass. I'm going to do the comedy at the wedding. You know, you can do the DJ. Exactly. I'm going to make some money. You know, Lauren? She can call anybody. I mean.

Yeah, come on. I can call her. You know what I can. You know what I'm saying. You know. You might need a host at the reception. I know. Jess could do the comedy. I'm going to do comedy.

I'm going to do comedy. I can't do it. You see, this is something talking about. You know, black people. We need to work together. We need to work. Wait, the invoices. I just told we got work.

We're working. We got some bills. I'm saying, this ain't no favors. You know what? I love that. I love that. Because I do believe in paying for your friends businesses. You know what I mean?

Support your friends. I'm with you. I'm with you. I'm with you. I charge 100,000 an hour with it. For the castle. That's right. Bosema, we appreciate you for joining us.

Oh, thank you. It's always a pleasure. Make sure you check out on brand with Jimmy Fallon. It's out right now. on NBC. And thank you so much at the breakfast club.

Good morning. Thank you. Uh, y'all, I love you so much. Hold up. Every day I wake up. Wake your ass up.

The breakfast club. You're all finished or y'all done? Hi there. This is Josh Clark from the Stuff You Should Know podcast. If you've been thinking, man alive, I could go for some good true crime podcast episodes, then have we got good news for you.

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Listen to heavyweight on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. The murder of an 18-year-old girl in Graves County, Kentucky went unsolved for years until a local housewife, a journalist, and a handful of girls came forward. with a story. America, y'all better work the hell up. Bad things happens to good people in small towns. Listen to Graves County on the Iheart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast.

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