The Breakfast Club - INTERVIEW: Chris Gotti Talks Irv, Jay-Z, Ashanti, Fat Joe, Diddy, Hip-Hop Now Vs.Then, 'Clash Pro League' +More

Episode Date: September 30, 2025

Today on The Breakfast Club, Chris Gotti Talks Irv, Jay-Z, Ashanti, Fat Joe, Diddy, Hip-Hop Now Vs.Then, 'Clash Pro League'. Listen For More!YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@BreakfastClubPower1051FMSee omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

This is an I-Heart podcast. The murder of an 18-year-old girl in Graves County, Kentucky, went unsolved for years, until a local housewife, a journalist, and a handful of girls, came forward with a story. America, y'all better work the hell up. Bad things happens to good people in small towns. Listen to Graves County on the IHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. And to binge the entire season ad-free, subscribe to Lava for Good Plus on Apple Podcasts. Hi there, this is Josh Clark from the Stuff You Should Know podcast.

If you've been thinking, man alive, I could go for some good true crime podcast episodes, then have we got good news for you? Stuff You Should Know just released a playlist of 12 of our best true crime episode. episodes of all time. There's a shootout in broad daylight, people using axes in really terrible ways, disappearances, legendary heists, the whole nine yards. So check out the stuff you should know true crime playlist on the iHeart radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Short on time, but big on true crime. On a recent episode of the podcast hunting for answers, I highlighted the story of 19-year-old Lechay Dungey. But she never knocked on that door. She never

made it inside, and that text message would be the last time anyone would ever hear from her. Listen to Hunting for Answers from the Black Effect Podcast Network on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. I just normally do straight stand-up, but this is a bit different. What do you get when a true crime producer walks into a comedy club? Answer, a new podcast called Wisecrack, where a comedian finds himself at the of a chilling true crime story. Does anyone know what show they've come to see?

It's a story. It's about the scariest night of my life. This is Wisecrack, available now. Listen to Wisecrack on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Oh, no. Every day I wake up, wake your ass up. The Breakfast Club.

Are you all finished or y'all's done? Morning, everybody. It's DJ Envy. Just hilarious. Shalamey the guy. We are the breakfast. Club. Laurel the Rose is here as well. We got a special guest in the building. Yes indeed. We got Chris Gotti. Welcome to me, man. Thank you for having me, man. Thank you. First

foremost, how you, how you doing, brother? How's everything? Man, I'm blessed, you know, just taking it one day at a time from everything, you know, but everything's going great. Got a lot of positive stuff happening, and that's why I'm here. All right. If you don't mind, I want to go back a little bit for people that don't know who Chris Gotti is. Of course, Irv Gotti's brother. Yes. Irv Gotti's big brother. Yes. For Queens, New York Highless. And you guys been in the industry for a while and you guys both of y'all founded murder ink yeah most people only hear irv when thinking about murder ink but you were kind of the the silent guy behind everything so

talk about how murder ink or the ink was founded it's murder ink we hated that we had to change that name that was russell simmons and leo and it came to us and ben chavis and said put murder to bed because we was down with the feds and everything so uh murder ink was founded because errs Irv wanted to be the biggest producer in the world. I helped make them that. Finding producers. And we built out his production company called Top Dog Productions, and we just started making hit after hit after hit for multiple artists.

Irv didn't say, I'm going to start Murder Inc. See, this is the misconception of most people don't realize that they thought Irv came up with like, I'm going to start a record label. He didn't start a label. He just wanted to be the biggest producer in the game. And that's what happened. And because that happened, Tom Metola, Dave McPherson, over his sony, said, we want to give you a record deal.

They told us they wanted to buy four beats. At the time, we're selling beats for $250,000 of tracks. So that's a million dollars. I'm like, let's go get that. We met up at Justin's, the restaurant, you know, Diddy's restaurant, you know, and we go to Justin's and meet Dave McPherson, and then we talk, and he's like, you know, Tommy wants to give you a deal. He doesn't want to buy beats.

And to our surprise, he pulls a contract out and look at it, or looked at it, and he threw it right back at him, so you're serious sending to our lawyer. So that's really the birth from Earth, Inc. And we didn't have a name. We just came up with a bunch of things. DJ Clues doing the mixtape, J.z doing the feature. And inside of that feature, we had a bunch of names we had thought of,

like, Lockdown Records. He says it in his verses on the features on the mixtape. And that's kind of where we was at. And then Irv was watching Arts and Entertainment one day, he's Gangster Week, and he sees Murder Inc. on the screen. And it's the Notorious Murder Inc., which was the Italian guys, that was actually making hits. Yeah, that was doing hits on people in Brooklyn.

Yeah. And it's Lucky Chiano, Alfred Anastasia, and those guys. And the narrator of that show was like, the Notorious Murder Rank, and they made hits. Irv went crazy. He went crazy. I got the name. But that's why, when you ask that question, how did you start?

And if the co-founders, that's the co-founder. I helped make all the music with them, with all the producers. And I just took care of the business, and I took care of my little brother. And Jai was always the first artist on Murdo. Another misconception. Jaya was already signed a death jam. So his first album, Vinna Ventevetevici, it's on Dev Jam. We just get the deal, but he already signed his deal.

Oh, wow, wow, wow. Yeah, people don't know that. So we had to go basically back to Leor and say, that's our artists. And then we had to pay for it to get them back to Murder Inc. How much did you have to pay? A couple million dollars. Damn!

Yeah. Okay, that was after the first album. After Vinaventivision. Okay, okay, got you, got you. And then they took some extra points on his next two. But a couple million dollars. Look, we had to pay for Ashanti. She was signed to A.J.M. Records, which is...

Shout out Mario Baezza. Mario's like an uncle. And he has a shot. He has Ashanti. He wanted us to do records for Ashanti on his label. He had a little independent label. And Ashanti was there with him and Irv didn't really think about doing anything. Erd would hit me with the tunnel vision. Like stay focused, yo. We get money with John Role. I'm like, yo, she can write. She's dope. And what broke that ice was Fat Joe. He called me up because he's doing a big pun album. And he says, I need that pun. I need an artist to an R&B artist on the hook I said I got one he said you do I was like yeah

I called her up she drove right to the studio pinned it Joe's like yo she's dope I said I'd tell her and I said I went down and that's he told Irv and he called me up right after Erv's like what artist

what artist you're talking about like my R&B artist and it was Ashanti he's like what artist and Irv called me right after that said bring it to bring her back up i would bring it to the office and irv wouldn't even want to talk like he's so focused irv is tunnel focused like when he's locked in you he's no i don't see no one like this dude and he would be there and he wouldn't even i would have to force him to just say hi and lie to them like yeah i listen to your music yeah yeah i'll get back to you so he'll

walk in say what's up and right back in his office and they were like did he like my music oh yeah he loved it you know what i'm saying and that's really how we got a shan but Joe, the co-signed, like when, like Irv is the artist. It's very difficult to make artists listen to you if they don't. Irv was my little brother, I raised him. He listened to me up to a certain point. After that point, I had to get someone else to, so I would send messages through all types of people

to tell them, do something to get it done. And that's what Joe did for me. How do you balance family and business in moments like that, though? Like you said, especially when y'all got disagreement He don't want to listen to you no more. I never had a disagreement with my brother. I never put my hands on my little brother. You know, big brothers, they always talk about that.

He was different. I always seen something in Irv from little. He was just different in a different way. And again, when you talk music, it's like, Irv did anything I did. He followed anything. I would never tell him anything bad I was doing because I didn't want him to do it.

But the reality is Erd was playing basketball. I used to play basketball. Then Earth started really playing basketball. It was really good, and he had dreams of going somewhere for a split second. B.J. Carter from Hillcris High School was so fast, Erves quit after that. He was like, if I can't keep up with him, I can't. That's what kind of ruined his hoop dream. But I was DJing, and people don't know that.

I started DJing because I had got some equipment. I won't say how I got it, but I got some equipment. And next thing you know, Irv started DJ. And he got really good. And that's what started the music. And then I was managing him in a group called with a D.F crew, which is Romeo and Rosel. Shut out, Rosel. You know what I'm saying?

The Godfather Noise. He's a beatbox. Oh, yeah, he's built the roots. Yeah, he was the roots. We had him early days. He was from Hollis, 199 in Hollis, so he was right there. I didn't know that. I don't know why I thought Rosel was from Philly with West Love and all.

No. No. I do want to ask you talk about, he doesn't listen when um got to his later life they said he was having health problems yeah they said nobody could talk to herb about talking constantly they said he wouldn't change his diet he wouldn't change his thing and they said nobody could get through to him why do you think that that was for her partially because my pops was hard-headed he got it for my dad so um same exact thing going through diabetes health problems and my dad was like you can't tell me god didn't make this orange and

I can't eat it you can't you know uh This was really our problem And it's the ignorance of just health And Erd was the same He would be like There's no way you could tell me I can't eat this food

It's good And he would tell you it's healthy And it was trash You know And it was just hard-headed Now he had his first stroke He had two strokes The first stroke

Basically he was I didn't think he was gonna be Be here for after that one He was, I went to the hospital. As soon as I heard, I flew right to L.A. Um, shout out B.J., B.J. found him. You know, B.J., picked him up, got him to the hospital. Or when he came around, he was like,

I don't want to go to the hospital. Don't take me to the hospital. I'm going to take my meds now. Again, this is, it's probably just how we are, believe. We're very hard-headed. I got a little bit of that too, so don't, I'm not acting like I don't. Mm-hmm. And B.J. was saying, no, he said, so stand up. and he couldn't he stood up and fell back down and seen i know you're going to the hospital

took him to the hospital i didn't know he's going to get past that one you did flew out there he was there for um i was there for a month and a half in the hospital staying with him when he took about two weeks before he actually came back and was conscious with those first two weeks i don't think he's going to make and um i always credit i said bj gave us another year basically before the next one, you know, so. Yep. Somebody told me, I'm sorry, but somebody told me there was a sense of acceptance

that he had, and he would say, he would say things like, I'm going to see poppy, I'm going to be a poppy. Yeah, yeah. He wrote, if you've seen his gram, and I would always, when I've seen it, I'll call him. Like, stop talking like that.

I don't believe in calling on for death like that, unless you really have a deaf wish. And I was like, you'll stop talking. You'll see him when it's your time. You know, Irva's very, you know, success. I've pretty much see this in every successful person they're very particular in how they take information from people which one or who

you know and Irv is no different there's no exception to the rule he's right there you know so with success and money and you damn they'd probably feel invincible I used to say Irv used to feel like he's God probably at one point when we was at the height of murdering he probably felt like he was the alpha animal

Omega at one point. And you think he knew when he sold part of his catalog, right? Yeah. No, he sold it all. Well, he earned on 50% of the masses. We had a 50, 50%. So we had 50% sold it. It was a $300 million deal, $100 and cash, $200 for

movies and TV products. Do you think he knew at that time to set his kids up to be like if something does happen every kid to have that? Do you think that was the mentality? Irv is 100% family. So yeah. That's definitely part of it and it's also part of health and just not, you know, just want to make sure, like you said, things is there for somebody no matter what.

Because Irv accepted death, he would always accept death if that was the consequence, whatever it is. We both do. Like, I don't ever look at the consequence of whatever it is, right? The preciousness of life. Think about that. Like, we're here for such a short amount of time. But we never thought or thought about anything like that. Irves no different.

And that's why when he got sick, and he would tell me, like, if this is what it is, this is what it is. But he didn't try to prevent it. And that first stroke, he did for his kids because he fought back. His left side was paralyzed. He got it all back.

And I would be right there. You could get it all back. I did it with my dad at 82. I made him a vegan. He no longer was diabetic, but what took my dad was cancer. The causes of that sugar creates the cancer in your body. And he died from lung cancer. He beat cancer in his thigh, shoulder, spine, but didn't beat through lung cancer.

How's that help? He finished, he passed at 86. But look, I'll sign off right now. If someone said 86, that's your date, done. I'm 58. Let's go. It's just the reality of life. Like, we all know this is, you know, no one talks mortality, especially when you're young.

But it's coming. And we don't know when. That's the reality, too. We don't have a, no one knows that expiration day. Well, how is your health? You said you, earlier, you're hardheaded as well. Yeah, no, I fast now. I've been doing this for years.

I credit Phil Ivy. I don't know if you guys know who Phil Ivy is, the poker player. I managed Phil Ivy 24 years now, still currently. Oh, and known it? Yeah. Wow. I think he's been up at one. I think Phil, was he up here?

I don't think so. Maybe. He might have been early on. Early. Yeah. You know, we shout out, Phil. He's having another baby, man. And that's something I fought with him to have, you know, some kids.

Got to keep him going, man. But, yeah, Phil changed my life since COVID. I'm going to go back to COVID. I mean, I was out in Vegas. I ran a record label called Supernova for him. You know, he had some incredible artists. man it's crazy he's not the best of understanding of how to not give these artists everything they want he gave them too much and when you didn't succeed yet that's not a

good formula for success got to have that hunger I saw that you and Jauru are figuring out of like some sort of organization and help educate people and using so you're leaning into holistic medicine yeah I've been I've been holistic for years the only thing I would go to a doctor for today would be like a broken bone or something. Holistically, I fix everything and any, any ills. But, you know, if you take care of yourself, those will be very far and few between. I really believe that. You know, I was looking, reading something with a Farrakhan or the Honorable Elijah

Muhammad, they'll listen to how to get to live. And he said, if you don't eat, if you eat one meal a day, he says, you might not get sick for every three years. If you don't eat in three days, you know, a fast in a three-day time, he said you probably get sick once every 10 years. And, you know, if you go longer in a fast, it's like you won't even get sick. The food is what kills us. It's just the reality. The body God designed is perfect. Think about it like that. And then you understand. The only thing impure is what you're putting inside your body. If you don't understand that, that concept will flow, then it's what it is. But I do, you deal.

with a holistic doctor Sandy that's my girl she's she's amazing I want to go back to the murder in days for a second yeah what do you think the culture underestimates about that era oh the culture in that error again when I I love these kids today I promise you but the business is all messed up because of the internet I'm I have a distribution comical average music I am fully engulfed inside of music from the how to help or power, independent artists. But today versus then, it's, again, the competition today is, again, it's a needle in a haystack, for real today.

Like, you could be the dopest artist and no one could even hear you. I always talked about this years ago, like, how can we don't have another Whitney Houston? How can we don't have another Luther Vangel? These are, like, iconic, you know, classical, you know, Anita Baker, it's because it's too hard to find them. And then the labels, when they stop pumping the money into actually create. create that star and market that artist. There's no way, there's not a chance in hell.

Today, the artist, that's the challenge. You have to actually become that on your own, and that is a huge challenge, and they're doing great jobs as far as the marketing and building social medias and all that influence, but there's so much options. You know, let's use food. We were just talking food.

I always talk to artists like it's food. If you're artists delivering music, you're feeding your fan. Stop putting out music, and the fan is going to eat somewhere else. They're not waiting on you today where they would wait on, man, that next Jaru album, that next DMX album,

that next JZ album, they was waiting on that. Like, I don't see that anticipation for the most artists. There's still some legacy artists that are still today, a Drake, I'll use him, or Kendrick. They have that power, a future, you know. They still have that power, but I promise you, they better keep it going.

The longer they go dormant. the heart it is to get that audience back. So what's the biggest mistake you see labels making the day? The biggest mistake for labels is not investing in artists. We have to find a way to invest in the artists. You know, expect the artist to walk in the door and be a star. It's like, that's not real. It's ridiculous.

That's not real. Michael Jackson was five years old, groomed to be the king of pop for all those years. It's a reason. It's not just by chance. And, of course, quality music and talent has to be there. So, again, it's what it is. got a groomed. You got a groom and you got an understanding. There's so many outlets now that reach so many people. It's not just here, right? There's so many different places. So that

makes marketing easier for the artists and they still can't hone in. The artists don't even like the market. They don't even like to do the, you know, the press run. The amount of time an artist has with a hit record today is another problem. In our day three, we make an album. We knew we had three, four singles. We knew we dominated for a year. like we locked in we have this year this is our year not a month not this is our year because we knew we had the first single the second single the third we locked and that's how we built out our business you can't do that today you'll be dead you have to you have to feed them you know think about how much music like a drake puts out it's a massive number and all the content he does and all the man it's

Night and day. I always want to know. How did you navigate where Irv having problems with all of y'all friends? Like, one time Irv was not messing with Hove, then it was Fat Joe, then it was DMX,

then it was Nas. Like, how did you navigate that part of it? Because- Fan Leaves fight. If we're not close in the beginning, then it doesn't matter then. You know, it's really like whatever then. But it's not.

And that's just the facts. And you make mistakes. Irv made a ton of mistakes. If he was here or not, I'm going to always speak the reality of what it was. Irv made a lot of mistakes. For instance, with Jay-Z, Nas, they beefing. Irv made super ugly. You know, he produced that record.

Correct. To go after that and talk to Jay-Z and say, yo, I'm going to sign Nas, what you think? Was you for that combo? Of course. We're in Baseline Studios. What did Holmes say? Before Irv spoke, I said, I'll give you the PG version,

but I told him whatever you want to do, I'm with you. And then Irv's like, yo, it's good business. And he's telling him it's like, yo, are you crazy? You can't tell your man you want to work with his enemy like that. Like, and Irv's like, nah, it's just on, Jay was like, you know, he was asking him, does he have real beef with him? He said, nah, it's just like music.

but Jay's keeping it cordial like to see where Irv is going with it or Jay plays chess he's not playing like he wants to see what you're going to say and Irv as soon as Jay said it's not beef like that he turned to me he said I told you I told you and Jay looking at me like

yo is he serious? And I was like wow he's crazy but you can again when you asked earlier you asked about like I was always in the bank this is all about Irv business is our business right the way we conduct our business that's our business but it was all about earth i never wanted to be in front of the camera behind them not never i was forced into that

everyone you know everybody i was forcing but that's the reality with murder rink i was always my job from irv was what do you need keep everyone away from him so he could stay focused only you know what i mean because i mean the amount of orangutans i had to deal with is unreal and not just new york every city we went into they all wanted in that's the error we was in they all wanted a piece of the goose that laid the golden egg and i had to deal with them and keep them away and now that was signed with murder angle fish now steve stout and oh steve stout shout out steve man but the commission is he's he's in that day he was a real hands-on guy and He's the one that brought the deal to us.

And Erd was like, you serious? We could get Nas? Like, we didn't think we could get that. And he was like, yeah. We made the record, the pledge. Yeah. Nage pledging allegiance to murdering. Think about that.

He's on the record pledging allegiance to murdering. And then Stout seeing the future, in my opinion. And again, to his credit, again, I'm not knocking Stout. This dude is brilliant in the book. of hip-hop he has to be one of the most iconic people in that book you know I'm saying shut out Steve again the end of the day he's seen the future what's the future come on murdering we're murdering what's the future 50 cent he's saying it he knew it he knew it Jai had a sneaker deal with now with Steve Reebok

we're on a private plane flying they're designing everything in the in you know in the plane and then he's seen the future and pulled everything and and switched it. Now, gee, you only got his sneaker deal. Jay-Z got his sneaker deal. You understand? With Reebok. And again, he knew, he seen something

and understood and made the pivot. As a businessman, I respect it. Well, question, why was Jay... As a friend, it's a little questionable. I get that. That's what I'm saying. Why was Jay upset with Irv, but not Steve, and Steve presented the deal?

Well, Steve was also, remember, Steve was also part of a lot of... That's why Damon always has her beef with Steve. because of that. Steve was funneling a lot of deals with Jay and then seeing Jay getting pulled that way instead of going through Damon and dealing with that side of it.

I understand that. I understand why he's upset about that. As a, you know, if Irv, I use Phil. I'm going to use Phil, Ivy, for this story because Phil had a deal. I brought him this lawyer. I won't say his name, but I brought him a lawyer. He didn't know who Phil was.

And I brought him a lawyer. They ended up doing some business. and the lawyer didn't tell me. And I didn't get mad at the lawyer. I got mad at Phil. You can't do something and then expect me to not. You didn't let me know about it.

That's on you, bro. That's not on me. And that's the same way I look at with Jay and Steve. You know what I'm saying? If he don't go back to Dane, if he doesn't go back to Dane and say something, I feel you had to come and talk to me. I'm here to protect you.

That's how Dane felt. And I get it. like as a partner as a they would have took a bullet for Jay you kidding me in that day you kidding me it's not even close it's not it's that's what makes me mad with that situation

I was gonna say how do you feel about that situation I spoke to Jay about that before one time I told him and I just left alone after that how do you feel it when you see it play out because you see how close they were you were on tours you were in studios there's a lot of stuff that's personal again inside of a family that we wouldn't know that I don't know you know

I'll leave it there and then you've got to let families be what they are because of what it is I respect both of them to the highest level you know at the end of the day

I leave it alone and didn't Jay get back didn't uh I think I heard you tell the story about how when Jay used Irv's same line again oh yeah oh yeah

the same line because Irv was like when when Jay told him that it wasn't really more it wasn't like physical beef it was more lyrical and Irv went crazy like I told you

and then he but Jay's looking and I'm like you my man you can't be like serious like but left it alone chess he's playing chess I mean right after that Jay went and did a tour with 50 cent they got the G unit uh sneaker he has his remember he had his like Gucci yeah that's got car collection yeah and they went out on the tour and then erv you know erv sat there and he's like yeah I just went out and he said yeah it was good business because erv told jay it would be good business to do this this is going to be good business I'm mad not but you What he's not realizing, and Irv knew it after the fact.

You know, hindsight is 2020. He realized that was one of his biggest mistakes with Jay. It took a lot to fix that. But they finally did fix it. Oh, yeah, we had multiple conversations, but, you know, it wasn't never the same, right? It was never the same. Like, what's that record? And Jay says, got to consult, Irv, got to y'all.

Hey, it's got to roll. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Right? All I know. is what I've been told, and that's a half-truth is a whole lie. For almost a decade, the murder of an 18-year-old girl from a small town in Graves County, Kentucky, went unsolved, until a local homemaker, a journalist, and a handful of girls came forward with a story. I'm telling you, we know Quincy Kilder, we know.

A story that law enforcement used to convict six people, and that got the citizen investigator on national TV. Through sheer persistence and nerve, this Kentucky housewife helped give justice to Jessica Curran. My name is Maggie Freeling. I'm a Pulitzer Prize-winning

journalist, producer, and I wouldn't be here if the truth were that easy to find. I did not know her and I did not kill her. Or rape or burn or any of that other stuff

that y'all said. They literally made me say that I took a match and struck and threw it on her. They made me say that I poured gas on her. From Lava for Good, this is Graves County, a show about just how far our legal system will go in order to find someone to blame. America, y'all better work the hell up.

Bad things happens to good people in small towns. Listen to Graves County in the Bone Valley feed on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. and to binge the entire season ad-free, subscribe to Lava for Good Plus on Apple Podcasts. Hi there, this is Josh Clark from the Stuff You Should Know podcast. If you've been thinking, man alive, I could go for some good true crime podcast episodes, then have we got good news for you? Stuff You Should Know just released a playlist of 12 of our best true crime episodes of all time.

There's a shootout in broad daylight. people using axes in really terrible ways, disappearances, legendary heists, the whole nine yards. So check out the stuff you should know true crime playlist on the iHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. My name is Ed. Everyone say hello, Ed. From a very rural background myself, my dad is a farmer

and my mom is a cousin, so like it's not like... What do you get when a true crime producer walks into a comedy club? I know it sounds like the start of a bad joke, but that really was my reality nine years ago. I'd just normally do straight stand-up, but this is a bit different. On stage stood a comedian with a story that no one expected to hear.

The 22nd of July 2015, a 23-year-old man had killed his family. And then he came to my house. So what do you get when a true crime producer walks into a comedy club? A new podcast called Wisecrack, where stand-up comedy and murder takes center stage. Available now. Listen to Wisecrack on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

I'm Hunter, host of Hunting for Answers on the Black Effect Podcast Network. Join me every weekday as I share bite-sized stories of missing and murdered black women and girls in America. There are several ways we can all do better at protecting black women. My contribution is shining a light on our missing sisters and amplifying their disregarded stories. Stories like Tamika Anderson. As she drove toward Galvez, she was in contact with several people,

talking on the phone as she made her way to what should have been a routine transaction. But Tamika never bought the car, and she never returned home that day. One podcast, on mission, save our girls. Join the searches we explore the chilling cases of missing and murdered black women and girls.

Listen to hunting for answers every weekday on the Black Effect Podcast Network, IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast. That's a fact. Jay took that off every forward record. Think about how serious that is that he said, no, I don't want to hear that no more. You can't get that unless you have the old. original, it's bleated out. It's bleaked out. It is. I didn't know that. It's called remastering, baby. It's got the role. I didn't know that. Yeah, gone. Does not exist. Go get that, go get that

record and see if you could hear it. Go to Apple music and see if you hear it. I'm bad with titles. As much as I'm terrible with titles and names and stuff, I don't remember the title. It's on streets is watching. Yeah, the streets you watch it out, but it's only a customer. It's on a customer. Jay used to sit in my office literally. to wait to talk to Irv. That's how deep that was. You know, again, again, he's at the heights of unbelievable heights.

People may not like to hear that, but if it's true, it's true. You know what I'm saying? And it's not one time, it's multiple times. Yo, is Irv coming? I was like, yo, you understand my office? Go ahead. I locked the door, whatever.

He's like, no, it's all good. He'd just sit there and just be waiting. And Erd, when he come in, they're going to... But Erv would help him with all times. types of business, ideas, thoughts, everything. He respected Irv's brain. I'll leave it there. Now, the Fat Joe thing y'all can never, I'm sorry,

the Fat Joe thing y'all could, because Fat Joe and Irv was like. We fixed that. Yeah, I fixed that. With Joe and Irv. Again, never the same. He was at my man, J.R.'s funeral. And, you know, I told Joe, again, I'm my brother's keeper.

I told Joe, you messed up, bro. And I went at Joe and told him, and he's like, He understood. We was at Say Less, actually. And I was having a meeting with my niece and Saint from Interscope Records. And I didn't want to go and deal with this right now. And my other dude, Big Joe, kept coming, say,

yo, Fat Joe's over, come on, come on. And I said, I don't want to talk right now. He forced me to talk, so I said, all right, let me go to him. And when I went back there, he's with Rich, of course. Shout Rich and Joe and Uncle Dan. the usual suspects and I told him I said you can't shout out my brother's a sucker

and then whisper I'm sorry that's a sucker move and I told him that that's a sucker play you can't do that especially if we're like this you can't yell it at the top of the mountain and then come down here

and say I'm sorry I shouldn't it did you know I asked them all kind of crazy questions because that's just me was you messing with Ashanti is that your girl You found her because of us. What are you doing interfering?

They had a relationship. What are you doing? Like, I said, and listen to, I promise you, go listen to anything. All Irv did was yell how much he loved her in the way he's talking about everything. You could tell as a man, he loved that woman. He was heartbroken. But I said, how do you tell me you love this girl? And you out with everybody else?

That don't make no sense. He kept getting caught with other way. Like, yo, what are you doing, bro? But that's Herve. That is Erv. He wanted his cake and eat it too. Again, you know him? That's who he is.

And that's the reality of that whole thing. But it's crazy. Like, every time I say, just listen. Everyone talks all crazy. Just listen to what he's saying. Listen to the words. Don't just hear. He's speaking loud.

Will Lorenzo's, we speak loud. You know what I mean? That's what we do. But at the end of the day, you listen to what he's really saying. And Irv is not a liar. He is telling you the truth about her, about him. I was their counsel, meaning when they would fight, I'm over the four seasons with Irv,

and I'm at the Ritz Carlton with Ashanti. Talking to me, what did he say? What did she say? Trying to keep them cool and keep the business. You know what I'm saying? Keeping the business where you've got to be. That's the facts. Ashanti wanted me to play a part in one of her videos.

Again, I wish I remember the name of this video. Oh, man, where she's singing and she killed, she's got to do with her. her boyfriend in the tub and she wanted me to play that part because she wouldn't be, I'm not doing that. She was going to kill you. Yeah, yeah.

But I'm really supposed to be Irv. Right. Again, it's like crazy. And I told her, I said, the only thing I won't do is lie. But I never took her, I never took Irv's side while Irv was here. Never.

So all I said is, I'm not going to lie now. I'm not going to talk about nothing, but I'm not going to lie either. Like, you can't ask me to do that. He's not here no more. He can't even say, And if I hear something wrong, I will correct. But that's it.

That's just for respect for my brother. But I never, Irv hated that I never took his side with him. Hated it. Like, that was something I had to deal with him. And I'm like, yo, that's your relationship. You know, that's your business. This is over here. He was like, she didn't come to the tribe.

I said she was at the tribe. Yeah, because Darcel called her. I said, I called her. I called it. And said, you should be there. And she showed up, what more do you want? You guys are fighting. And what else I always say is I say, let me talk to your ex.

And let me see what she's going to say. Let me talk. You know what I'm saying? That's just what it is. That's the fact. Have you and Ashanti been able to talk since everything? Because I saw that you were upset with her when she sat down with Angie Martinez and she said that. I was upset because we haven't spoke in person after Earth's passing.

Imagine that. And I promise you, I'm the reason. she was murdering. Irv made the records. But Irv would have never got to that point if I don't do what I did. I used to fly up to Jersey giving her music to make record after record

if I don't put it on the point. It never happens. And I did that. She knows it. For her not to call me after Irv's passing, she texts me. That don't feel right. Her mother,

Tina, that don't feel. right you understand like I did everything for them never did I did it one thing in return don't count tickets because I could get that myself you know saying to a show that's just the facts I'm not gonna sit here and sugarcoat nothing and that's why I felt the way and then when I see I'm like now that's not cool but again thinking career but she's a legacy artist has no new music her Her career is solidified. She's fine.

Stay in shape. This is the reality. And to live with him, you'll be able to do that until you're gone and make a living. She's fine. That's what we did. We gave him him hit record.

That's the reality. Jai rules the same. Gave him, gave him him hit record. And Jaya, again, he's amazing. And yes, it's a marriage. When I say we gave him, it's a marriage. Lyrican beat. and I know there was a point

she was like she wants her message and that's why Irv was like I'm not like Leor meaning Leah wasn't in the studio making those records with you meaning when you wrote those songs and I corrected it I'm part of that too when I put that record out and I did the beat and then I have to go

mark it promoted physically to get it off the ground you know there's so much details of the murder ring history that we don't know or the public doesn't know Ashanti we didn't have her signed and we put foolish out. Oh, wow. Yeah.

Number one record in the country, and she's not signed. You know how much it cost us to get her from that little AJM records? $5 million out of our part. Five, because we got a hit record. Oh, yeah, yeah. We got a hit record on her. So now he's, the numbers up. Five million.

What made you all put the record out before she was from? Irv moves with his heart. Leo said, I'm not going to pay for nothing. Irv's like, we're going. It's timing. You know, success is number one reason for success is timing. Number one reason for all success, any business, whatever it is, is the timing. Irv understood timing at the highest level.

We have to go now. He knew what the world was looking for. That's why she's still who, that's all it is. It's the timing. And she put, boom, it worked. But now we got to pay. And he did. she knows we had to pay that money

but look, Irv said loyalty he figured that's what it hurt him see this is the plot that heard him he's thinking she's gonna be loyal with me on just business things and stuff and again then it turned into relationship to because in that moment he wasn't messing with her yet

he just seen a talented young girl and that's it and that's what she was that's what she is like she's amazing She's an incredible artist. And she always wanted to sing. She could sing pitch perfect. People don't know about it.

If you think about her career, they always like, she can't really sing, but that's what Irv created. She hated, she wasn't singing. But remember, she had three deals before Earth. So she lost three times. Fourth time was the charm. So when you think about it from a business standpoint,

I'm a business guy, when I think the business of it, that's what happened. You know what I'm saying? She was with Nooney and those guys at Noontime and all of that. all of that, no records. But you're singing, you're making a record that no one wants to hear, because the timing is not right. Not saying they weren't good

records. It's the timing of it. It's the errors changing. The culture. Irv is part of the culture. That's he created this culture, this sound that was coming out of us. And all these other artists, he put his hands on pause. Y'all probably didn't make a lot of money, y'all fools either, because that was

a bad boy, said, wasn't that a sample? No, yeah. Yes, it's a sample. It wasn't bad. We didn't give it to Puff. Irv kind of, he went to him and told him, I'm using the Biggie, but I ain't using your Biggie. Puffy wanted him to use that. So he could get it. He went to the original.

I think it's the Ozzy, brothers. Yeah, yeah. When Irv sold the catalog for his part of the catalog, was Ashanti's Masters a part of that? Yeah, every song he made. Got you. Every song he made. Every song he produced everything.

Because when you sell the masses, it's not just massies, it's publishing goes along with it. Because whoever's paying that kind of money, they don't want to go fight for the now with the publisher and say you can't use it they want it all and you know I had to get a you know then that's what they did they did that with Universal so in our contract we have full control of the master 100 percent but we had to share 50 50 so basically wherever that music was going to get put anywhere we could say yes or no to does that make sense yes okay so that's how we had to set up so

when he sold it they inherited that right so universal can't stop uh iconoclass or who has the masters now. I was asking because right when he sold something previously like with Jaroo, didn't give Jaro a cut? Yeah, he gave J'all. But again, that's family business. Got you. So there's nothing like that. That was going down with Ashanti's situation for the part that he sold.

Jai was supposed to be, it's a different business. I was going to ask, was Jai a owner of? That's what Jai was supposed to be officially never happened. Never happened. Why not? Just timing. Erv was going to sign.

to Jaru's label as the first artist for Jai. I heard that before. That was like that. I have the hip-hop urban legend. Let me tell you something. I have the napkin. I wrote the contract on and they both signed it. I have it somewhere.

But that's what the contract was because Erv was like, okay, we would be in the studio and Erv would re-wrap everyone's song for them to show them how to deliver the song. Not so much Jai, but like the other artists. And then he, Erv understood how to deliver as a producer, he understood how to deliver vocals on music. You know what I'm saying?

And that is what, man, when Joss said, nah, you can't go out like that. And he was like, he's going to write his song because Erv wasn't a writer. Jai was like, I'll write all your music. You're going to be my artist on my label. And they signed a deal. It just never came to fruition just like,

Jaws getting his piece of murdering. So that was his piece when he sold the thing. That was his piece. for it. Gotcha. Okay. One question about Fool is it was a DeBorge sample, right? The Barge?

It did have Biggie's voice than Foolish. It was another one. That was a remix. The remix, we did the remix, but we didn't, you know... Oh, got you. The original one didn't have it. The original doesn't have it. What was the most underrated part of your role in Building Merding?

Hmm. I don't, I don't, you know, I'm very humble. Like I said, I did everything I had to do for my brother. I'm my brother's keeper. brother's keeper and that's the crazy but everything i had to do on anything you could think that needs to be done i did it i faced 20 years it's something that wasn't for me that's the that's the ultimate if you understand the truth of the everything irv and again shout up pram um go get go see the supreme truth he got a documentary out just for crazy so but irv and prine for his relation

i'm from hollis queens i give you that dynamic because hollis and south side don't work Premium is the king of Southside. You're Queens. You understand that. You understand? King of Southside. My whole adolescent years, all I did was fight dudes from Southside.

Shout out Monkey Dave. He's someone that I fought all the time. He don't know me, but now we're just kind of going to connect on some good stuff now. So shout out Monkey Dave. Monkey Dave used to be there waiting for anyone going to Hollis with like 20, 30 dudes every day at the Q2,

the only bus that runs through Hollywood. So, but Irv, again, with all of this he was just different man I can't explain it he was different I seen something in my job aside from my mom and my dad always telling me take care of your brother make sure he's good you know and I had to take care of my brother so it never stopped I only got in of argument with her during the trial one time because he acted like he didn't remember and anything I did the reason I'm sitting is because I my accounting was I got a great a bill of health from the feds but a accounting of murdering we gambled a ton they had me

gambling at 1.8 a week and that's not just me it was me john nerve all gambling with a bookie and I had a book who keeps track of their I do because I want to see profit and loss and we could claim profit and loss in business um But I had every check I signed unless it was to me. So anything we did to anybody, if I had to pay envy of a check, Irv, I'm going to sign this for envy. Anything outside of payroll, right, which I'm signing, but anything outside of payroll, Irv, I got to give Charlemagne, you know, just, I got to give just everybody, he's seen it. and it's okay to the end and I go so I never made one check

without doing that so again they always say families can't do business together I'm showing you how you have to do it as family if you don't do it this way you will have problems so he can never look at anything and say a word but when we're in the trial and they're saying

what's this talking about checks and he's saying as Chris I'm like who like man nigger you told me to pay this dude you told me to pay this dude you tell like don't get amnesia now and i like the lawyers had kind of got us separated i wasn't playing with him and then i said you

better start remembering now and he did he started irv didn't do the trial i always say this to everybody erv didn't do the trial i did the trial i did every motion hearing you know motion hearings you usually don't go it's just your lawyers and they're prosecutor and they're deciding on what evidence gets submitted into the trial That's where you win and lose cases. My judge, the first day, said, why are we here? We know these guys are guilty.

My judge. I couldn't believe it. I turned to Shaguel, which is my lawyer. He's not here no more. It's Jerry Shaguel, Best Lawyer in the game. And I turned to Shaguel, and I'm looking at him, and then I just start staring at the lawyer, and I write down, these grounds for an appeal.

And I slide to Shiguel. Shagel says, we'll talk after. So we go in the hallway And the judge sees me staring at him And he realizes I'm not like a paralegal Oh, this is really the client This is it Because they never show clients never go to motion hearings

So they're like Oh man he oh look and he changes everything up After it's all over The prosecutor smirking and laughing like Yeah got him We got this one right Yeah so we go out in the hallway And he said Chris

I know the judge We went to school together. He says he's probably going to be the most fearless judge. You're going to get in the Southern District. I said, what? I said, what? He said, I wouldn't, we could make a motion to change because of what he said. He said, but I wouldn't do that.

I'm going to tell you, trust me. And I said, oh, my God. I was like, this is who you want the judge to be for my case. And I'll keep it on it. You know, when we first started, we had like 24 charges. It wasn't just two. They put everything on it, on it. Just threw everything.

Anything preem was dealing with, they threw on us. And we get to the next day for the motion hearing. And that judge blocked everything. Because he knew he messed up the day before. I really believed that. He blocked everything. I mean, I keep it 100. I had a lot of guns and things.

I never sold drugs in my life. I might have robbed the drug dealer. I never sold the drugs, except for when I sold what I robbed. But that's different. That's a different sale. That's a different sale. He didn't sell it to customers.

He sold the other drug dealer. That's what he said. Yes, yes. At a discount, too. They loved me, these guys. So at the end of the day, I feel that guilt he had, that next day, he blocked everything.

and that is the defining moments of why there's no way those jurors 12 jurors of not your peers that are not your peers is going to find you innocent with 24 charges and you understand there's no way the you know the most chilling moment for me again I was very ignorant to a lot of this stuff was the first day of court you get in an all-rise judge and they read Christopher Lorenzo versus the United States of America. I'm like, what did I do to the government? What did I do to this country that I'm fighting them? Like, that was the surreal moment,

even though you see it in the docket, but when they read it, I was like, oh, man, it's crazy. But I didn't do, like, everything, money laundered cases, or is money. It's not my money, why am I sitting here? But I signed every check, and that's my partner, and we're there, my brother, and that's it. And you heard it down, though. Yeah, yeah.

Yeah. I did want to ask you about the funeral because the hold came to the funeral. Yes. Didn't, I thought Ashanti came to the funeral too? She did not. She sent some flowers. Okay. What about Joe?

Did not? His father, I'm, um, his father passed at the same time. Okay, got you, got you. Joe came late. Actually, Joe was there late. Got you, got you. He left his father's and got to us late. I seen him after, at the end when it was almost over.

He did get there. Sorry, Joe. Yeah, he wasn't in the beginning, though. You got you. Yeah. I was going to ask you. He mentioned the flowers, and I know she, Shanty, I posted a statement online.

Did that, I know you said that you want to talk in person, but, like, did that provide any sort of comfort for you guys in that moment, just having things show up there from her? I don't know how to answer that, really. It's like, it's a terrible, it's a terrible, it's, my dad was the words, and Erv passed that. you know the connection between a sibling and the way me and her grew up i mean i raised her that's not my father my you know my mother see my dad my dad was an alcoholic my had a listen

years he's crazy you know what i mean but then he when he got older i understood why he was drunk every day he had eight kids with no money you know what i understand as a man he never left Stayed with mom. And I asked him that question. Why didn't you leave? I said, I could never do that to y'all. I heard you. You know what I'm saying?

He's my hero. But my brother, I tried, I had to explain this to his kids. I said, I know that's your dad. I know what it is to lose the day. I said, you'll feel that the day you have to lose your brother whenever that day comes and it's different. To this day, I can't, I mean, I got sick over Earth, man.

I got sick physically after he, literally in the hospital, like, and they, what is it? It's stress. What's the stress? It's my brother. He's here right now, like, but I got through it. I have to, like I said, so when you say that with the flowers, it's a good gesture. It's a good gesture. I won't go further than that.

I don't want to be disrespectful to her because she probably thinks it's good, but she should know better that she had to talk to me physically. actually she should come see me physically I love Ashanti you know what I'm saying that's little that's like little sis for real for real we took care of her in every sense of the imagination she she confessed me one day afterwards and she thanked me for her because now she's out there by herself and she's getting all type of indecent proposals let's leave it in that right because that's what this industry is. Let's not make any sugar-coating about it. It's an attractive young lady. She wants to

make music. What could you do with this? You want that beat? Okay, let's go over here. And she told me. She told me. And she was like, thank you. She thanked me for always taking care of it. On Versus, you know, and she's with Nellie, shout out Nellie. I have no problem with these. Nothing. I fuck with Nellie. But on Versus, the day of verses, he pulls up. And I said, what do you want to do? Ask her. Like, she come up and you ask her. What do you want to do?

I'll roll this thing off the stage. She said, no, I'll give you the sign if there's a problem. But that's the day they got back together. That's why you don't get in the middle of relationships. It's different. That's why I never got in it when her were together. I never did. I just tried to keep it cool with them and keep the business move.

I could have sworn it was reported that she went to the funeral. Okay, so she just sent you a time. They lied. They did put a report that she was there. They lied. Again, she probably got a good publishers or something. I wanted to ask you, you know, um, you know, she should have came and say to my mother. Yeah. That's the part that's deeper than just what it is. She knows that. She knows Nini. Come on. This is every, all bets is off when it's death. It's over. Nothing earth could say nothing no more. It's over. Why can't you? And again, if it's Because of your husband, you could come see me and talk to me.

I could see you at a show. What's the difference? That's how I look at it, me personally. She had said that she tried to, there was an olive branch or whatever that. She tried to extend or was extended, but it wasn't received well. So you think that that's why she kind of back to? She texts me. I wasn't in the move for texting.

You understand? She got to understand that too. You can't only have your view. It's two sides. she texts me and she didn't text me if I show you the date she texts me it's late you understand

he's gone already so just put this in without me going deep he's gone and then I get a text after he's gone a couple days no nothing else she got my number

you'd appreciate her to call I would appreciate you to visit yeah I get what you're saying like I said we did a lot you know and she could say whatever she wants about a relationship she's she whatever but she can't lie about her career who can who can sit there and say she did something more than what what it is like yeah she wrote the records with him she hated every hit record how about that so what if we listen to her does she become as shanti that's the facts full um baby baby she hated that

why i was too many babies it's one of my favorite records Irv went in the booth and told him, you got to sing like this. He said, you got to feel like you high. You don't get high. That's why you don't know what it is. That's what he told her. And he said, you got to be strung out on a man that way. And he's so, I don't want to hear it pitch perfect.

I sound stupid, Gotti. Sing it like that. And she did. See, I give credit for the listening. A producer has to be able to produce or else you just. just the beatmaker, right? And you're leaving it in the hands of an artist. And then that's the reality.

If you trust that producer, which they trusted Erf, they was able to get through and make those changes. She compromised her own belief for his, which is to her credit, you know, and that's the reality. Jai, the favorite time with J'all was Hala, Hala. I get that beat. I run to the studio, Erv puts it up, Jaws did.

All I know is what I've been told, and that's a half-truth is a whole lie. For almost a decade, the murder of an 18-year-old girl from a small town in Graves County, Kentucky, went unsolved, until a local homemaker, a journalist, and a handful of girls came forward with a story. I'm telling you, we know Quincy Kilder, we know. A story that law enforcement used to convict six people, and that got the citizen, investigator on national TV. Through sheer persistence and nerve, this Kentucky housewife

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Or rape or burn or any of that other stuff that y'all said. They literally made me say that I took a match and struck and threw it on her. They made me say that I port. guess on her. From Lava for Good, this is Graves County, a show about just how far our legal system will go in order to find someone to blame. America, y'all better work the hell up.

Bad things happens to good people in small towns. Listen to Graves County in the Bone Valley feed on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast. And to binge the entire season ad-free, subscribe to Lava for Good Plus on Apple Podcasts. Hi there, this is Josh Clark from the Stuff You Should Know podcast. If you've been thinking, man alive, I could go for some good true crime podcast episodes, then have we got good news for you? Stuff You Should Know just released a playlist of 12 of our best true crime episodes of all time.

There's a shootout in broad daylight. people using axes in really terrible ways, disappearances, legendary heists, the whole nine yards. So check out the stuff you should know true crime playlist on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. My name is Ed. Everyone say hello, Ed. I'm from a very rural background myself. My dad is a farmer and my mom is a cousin. So like, it's not like... What do you get when a true crime producer walks into a comedy club? I know it sounds like the start of a bad joke, but that really really...

was my reality nine years ago. I'd just normally do straight stand-up, but this is a bit different. On stage stood a comedian with a story that no one expected to hear. The 22nd of July 2015, a 23-year-old man had killed his family.

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Join me every weekday as I share bite-sized stories of missing and murdered black women and girls in America. There are several ways we can all do better at protecting black women. My contribution is shining a light on our missing sisters and amplifying their disregarded stories. Stories like Tamika Anderson. As she drove toward Galvez, she was in contact with several people, talking on the phone as she made her way to what should have been a routine transaction. But Tamika never bought the car, and she never returned home that day.

One podcast, one mission, save our girls. Join the search as we explore the chilling cases of missing and murdered black women and girls. Listen to hunting for answers every weekday on the Black Effect Podcast Network, IHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast. Two hooks. Write the hook first. We playing cards in the other room. He comes out with a hook. That's not it.

Go write another hook. What if Josh is? I said, nah, Irv, that's it. That's what these artists do today. It's like they can't be wrong. Nah, that's it. That's it. Erb said, no, that's not it.

Came out with another one. That's not it. The third one, yo, I'm going to double it up. I'm a do with the beat. Hala, holla, hollah. Room go crazy. Go write it. He wrote the hook.

And the verses was, it's like they was written already. That's how fast it was. We're talking about 16 bars three times, three 16 bar. It was like, as soon as he got the hook, the verses was like done get record but that's the

that's the beauty of a producer and that's to me Irv is a producer for real for real and then when I look in the industry Dr. Dre who is Irv's idoled he idoled like he's the best

I don't even know how he made this or how he did that but Dr. Dre's a real producer no and you have a lot of them you know I remember Tim and Irv Timbo you know they had they used to have a little

group competitions, you know, and he would tell, because Tim's on huge records. And Irv would say, did you tell them what to do? He said, how come you didn't make Magua hit? You know, this is Irving Tim's conversations, but when you think about it, it's real, I get it. I'm just in the back listening, you know, I'm that. And I'm like, man, that's real stuff, though. How many people did you have to fight for Irv? Because Irv had a crazy mouth pause.

I mean Err would go out I would get the call over and over that's like a constant all of his friends everyone would tell you like they would call me

and they would be like yo your brother's here but you know I really don't fuck with him I said well then don't call me you can't not fuck with my brother and tell me you fuck with me that's impossible nah you know what I mean

Chris you know what I mean all right well then make sure he's good and that's what would happen. So I didn't really fight a lot. I'm blessed. I was blessed in a sense of I got a lot of respect. You know,

the people I fought wasn't really for Irv. I fought a lot, but it wasn't for Irv. There was a respect, and when I, everyone knew if you didn't mess with Irv, you can't fuck with me.

Don't come over here. You know, I'll give you to Jimmy Hinchman. Shout out Jimmy again, but this is how we actually got cool he kept coming to meet me at different clubs you don't want to talk to your brother I said okay what you want to talk about Jimmy talked to me I said I want to talk to your brother I said Jimmy I'm telling you I'm gonna get it to like I don't lie if you're gonna tell me

I'm gonna get it to Irving just talk to me and then he said it again and I said I am Irv nigga what's up and then oh yeah and then it was tension a lot of tension with Jimmy now we didn't get into any conflict we resolved it but when you deal with predators and i dealt with a lot of predators you have to deal with them they only respect power strength so if i didn't show jimmy's strength it would have been probably a whole other situation do you think the industry is messed up because now this is going to sound crazy back in the day when hip hop was prevalent and everybody

was running there were predators or there were street guys was it worse then then today it seems like it's not as bad. It seems like people are just doing whatever they want to do. I think it's a thousand times worse back in our era versus today. But don't you think there was more control? There was somebody on the West. There was somebody in Houston. There was somebody in Brooklyn. There was somebody in Queens. There was somebody in Bronx that kept the artist being artists. And the street guys were the one. There was a cold. It doesn't seem like that code is there now. It is, let's say lawless. But the code back then

most people didn't have the right person they was dealing with. I mean, I don't want to, but I had tons of people's jury in my hand that I shouldn't have had in my hand. And I'm like, and the reason they come to me, they was coming to me, these guys was, they would tell me, do you know them? I'll get it back to them, but then they want me to pay for them or want them to pay for it. And I'm like, nah, I don't want to get into the middle of that business.

Now, if you was my man and it was that, I'd call you up. And I would ask you, hey, something happened. I wouldn't say anything. I would ask you, you're good? And I want them to confess, and they would, 99 times out of 100, they did not confess. They would act like it was cool. Like, nah, no one wants to act like they got robbed or anything.

They want to always act like, okay. If you don't, you said nothing, cool, you know? I saw that, I started, I cut you off. I saw that, just speaking of this, made me think of a, they're doing the Supreme team of a docus series or documentary. Well, the documentary is a documentary on Supreme is called, the supreme truth um and yeah shout of luke he made an incredible film him and uh michael j payton um

and he's again just backed on with facts like it was fact check there was no this is my opinion you know that's one of the things preem insisted on he wanted to get all of the facts where people lied or this is impossible because this is what it is because the reality is he's in on the wrong charges and I'll leave it at that what he's convicted of is not what he did but when you go in front of 12 people with a history like he has oh man good luck and getting them to say not guilty and that's just the facts because I was there for that whole trial and it's all it's all lies it's based on lies all snitches but the 12 were going to believe that because you have a history they're not going to sit

there and say oh he couldn't have done that that that part of your brain is not happening it's not happening the diddy trial must have drove you crazy you know the did he trial i was just with christian out in l.a not too long ago shout out christian and the whole family you know justin and um because i can't imagine what they're dealing with my biggest problem with the trial was when it first started you know the way they promoted i thought something was going to come up it's like some real we're going to hear about all types of crazy shit you know you don't hear nothing We heard the girl He enjoyed having a freak off

You know With dudes with large members Pause At the end of the day And she was paying them My biggest problem is this He's a If he's not a billionaire he's right there

Let's call him a billionaire How does this black billionaire With this lack of evidence Which they had to The prosecutor had to remove charges In the middle of the trial I said, oh, we're not going to go after these. We're taking these off because they didn't have no evidence for it.

Not get home, not be able to fight this from home. That's all I'm saying. Nothing else. Why couldn't he fight this from home? You know, the Abercrombie and Fitch people, they, five million dollar bail in their home. And they got all the boys. They was messing with them little boys and girls. Like, come on.

Enough is enough, man. But as people, if we don't get together, we will never get anywhere. And that's the biggest problem. They know we can never get together. You think he's going to get to come home and get the time served on the prosecution? He's definitely getting time served. And it's just a question of what they charge him with, how much is the judge going to give him? How much amount of time?

I'm afraid for him. Really? Yeah. Only because they didn't let him go. He should have been home. He's almost in a year. We all watched the case. I think he's longer than year.

It's only been like 13, 14 months. Yeah, that's a little longer than a year. It's over a year, yes. Delaware, boy. That's a Delaware education When you say more than a year I'm thinking like you're hitting at like two years plus We got you, you're wrong

But he's For being in that long, it's crazy For the charges that, I mean, for the case that I heard It's not a domestic violence case I don't condone, I'm a protector of women So at the end of the day If I see a female in duress, I would be in the middle of that problem now if it's a relationship like I said I don't do that

I got five sisters I got a mother I got a ton of nieces I got a daughter you're not playing with no women as a man so when I heard the domestic violence I don't condone that but that's not a domestic violence case in the feds he's an MDC right now that's a real place nah that's not cool man and I was early on it because I was waiting to hear something and a prosecutor will always come

out with the smoking gun. The first thing, they're going to talk about it. And I didn't hear nothing. And right after that, I was like, leave, let Diddy go, man, this is terrible. You know, hold your head, bro. And again,

you're, whether, someone's sexual preferences is nothing. If he involved kids, then that would have been a problem. I'm again, women, kids, you can't play with that shit. Not around me, no. Now, Abercrombie, a fifth thing was interesting, too, because it was always saying that he got a bell because of his

age. Yeah. And then they said he was unfit to stand trial because he had dementia. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I don't know. Puff, you got to go crazy too.

You should have make me crazy. I want to ask you something to us about, you know, Dame Dash is doing the Supreme team TV series. Yeah, yeah, Kyle, shout out Kyle, Prime's son. He got Dame and he's talking to Prince and, in, uh, Prame. We was on the phone. Nope. Yeah, we was on the phone.

Like, the reality is, someone. Anyone could tell Prince's story from the 80s. Once you get into the 90s and that's murdering. He's attached to the hip. I went through the whole trial for it. That's really what the public wants to hear about. What the Irv doing the Supreme Team? Yes, he was.

We had, man, Jamie Fox, Michael J. Michael J. Michael, B. Jordan. Michael B. Jordan. Michael B. Jordan to play Prince, his nephew, and Jamie Fox was. going to play pram we had was talking to leonardo decapio for for the detective like the lead detective role wow no it's powerhouse was it gonna be a movie or a tv show it was a movie wow

but here's what happened here's what happened irv earth earth happened we was irved he he cursed out the president of beatty boy told him he's like not black he didn't really curse him out he's not black so scott mills or yeah yeah i didn't want to say his name, but yeah, Scott, I'm trying to do business over there, Scott. You heard me? We'll get on to that next. But he tells him he's not black. He don't know his culture, all types of stuff like that.

Irv was very close with Bob Backish. Bob Backish was the CEO of Viacom who owns, on Controls, BT, Paramount Films. So we was getting a deal with Paramount for this movie, the praying team, through Bob. And Bob, Irv thought he was going to protect him with Sky. And then Irv went there and said, Irv, I hired him. I can't do that. And then Irv ended up losing tails.

We were the number one slot, TV slot on BT for our time slot for tails, and we lose it. Again, we got Irv. And he lost it because Scott took the stand. I can't work with him. And that was the end of tails. Why did he end up calling Scott? Why do he call Scott?

Because Irv, okay. Irv is a visionary. again and he had ideas about tales in different genres of music and he wanted to I'm going to give Mona Scott this credit shout out Mona

he wanted to love and hip hop what do I mean by loving hip hop New York loving hip hop Atlanta loving hip hop Miami love and hip hop LA no but it's from his programming see we're talking programming now so

loving hip hop never stops it's everyday 365 when you do do TV shows, you got your hiatus. You're shooting this little bit of time, 10, 10 episodes, and you're off. Then you come back. No, now if I do that, I never stop working.

But then, you know, that's a lot of money to him. Irving was getting $25 million for 10 episodes. So 2.5 of E. So if you did that, times four, you're talking about a $100 million deal. And that's why he's, you might call someone out of their name for $100 million. And if they don't see the vision, we got a show that's working.

We already proved it out. Let's do R&B now. Let's do rock and roll. Let's do country. Let's do Latin. You know, the concept is there. So it's like, mm-hmm. But, you know, Mona Scott, she did that with it.

She did that with love and hip-hop. Shout out Mona again. Yeah, she did. Now, the reason you hear, the Clash Pro League. Yes. What is the Clash Pro League? Man, the Clash Pro League is, again, I'm four decades. Inside the Street basketball.

You know, I did so many things in my career. When I look back, I'm like, man, I did all of this. I can't believe it. But, yeah, four decades inside the street. I helped Greg Marius, who ran Rucker Park, helped do deals with him and build Rucker Park to the height. EBC, right? That's what they call it.

EBC now. Yeah, entertainment. Entertainers basketball classic. That's what it's called now. But, yeah, I did that. And then all these years in the middle of that, I would always think of, I dealt with, I also have a

managing a sports business, so I manage athletes. I have NBA players that I was managing, football players managing, or co-agiening, managing or co-agent. I will get an agent and be his partner, bring them the athlete. And through all of that

is what made me start the league because I understood the, again, business principle number one, supply and demand. The supply of athletes that are not getting jobs that are really talented play D1 but have nowhere to go.

They play in the streetball and some of them do get to go overseas but when you think of overseas it's only two jobs an American can get on each team overseas. The rest has to be from the country that you're playing it. So most of those jobs are taken

just like the NBA. NBA is a 450 players in the NBA and guess what? Most of them are not leaving. And then you get a new recruit two drafts, two rounds every year. That's the only, 32 teams 64 players

Think of March Magnetons and you understand supply Every year all them teams D1, talented players but can't get a job And I was like we need a team In a league in New York Just started

I want to start it in New York But I want to franchise leagues In every city You know And they really have a strong hold on that So that's what I did last year It went incredible We sold out every week

short season for the attention span of these Zs. Right? So I did a short season, only a seven-game season. Again, with money, I'm paying all the players. They all get paid. The coaches, everybody's getting paid. So it's a real league. I based it on leagues like Dominican Republic or Puerto Rico.

And if you look at the Puerto Rico League, like Bad Bunny owns a team over there. Like, they're pumping now the influence of a big star and money into these teams. Puerto Rico will end up having a very big league. The problem is they need to accept more American players. They have to make an adjustment from their own business because only having two, Puerto Rico's not big enough to have really that good of players everywhere.

It's just what it is. You need more from outside to make the league more dynamic. But that's where they're right. And then I looked at all this. I studied this and I said, let's start a league. And I did it at a very cost-efficient manner. I based the pay off of those games. and we only have a seven-game series

it's eight teams eight teams they all play each other once once that's over playoffs championship we're done I did a full combine and had over 500 players show up and you had to fill out a questionnaire to make sure that I know you know how to play ball

you have a career somewhere I'm not just taking someone off the street that's oh I'm nice I killed the YMCA yesterday no no you have to be a real athlete so all of these are real athletes that played somewhere and man it was a huge success um my next goal is now season two we're starting in march this year um i moved the date i don't want to do it in the summer which is probably in new york is the ideal time because i don't want to cannibalize the streetball i also help build

like a dikeman park like me and ken stevens shout out ken stevens man i helped build out dikeman and now you know i helped them out with that and dikemen's height so i understand but i get all the players from the high school up so I have the farming system basically everything right in my fingertips with clash and then that's what the league's about and then it really is about expanding I've had meetings just now shout out Jay Will um you know Kevin Durant Carmel Anthony you know uh Kendrick Perkins fat Joe you know and then I got French Montana I'm using influences now but each team smart you know you guys could come in whenever you want

just let me know no seriously like this is business and when I show you the business side of it this is multi-billions of dollars once I expand into multiple cities the real part of it will be marketing because I'm using these social media influencers or celebrities you know I'm talking to NLE chopper

Chris Brown Jay Cole Chris Brown that's what's that yeah because these I want something with a basketball affinity and he got it I know to this day Chris Brown you see

to come to New York and play with me. I used to get a basketball city and he would come. That's how I know Chris Brown. Before he got big, I was playing basketball. He would come to, I would play at night with all my guys and Chris Brown. A guy named 10 would bring him with me and we'd go play ball everywhere. Same. That's how we meant to way back before he.

You don't play no goddamn basketball. He used to play with my cousins. No, but he could play ball. So someone like him, so CB, if you listen and you see what he'm doing, like come holl at me because it's a huge potential. all of this. I mean. Gilly too. Gilly can bowl. I know. Look, Gilly and Wallow, I'm trying to get

these guys to come up. They were supposed to come last year, but now I want to talk to him about being owners of teams, and then I can show on the business side of that and how will they get the money. And I'm not asking for a dollar. Right? I'm giving the teams out. I'm picking the right

influences to make my league. That's dope. You know, I'm a shout out Robin from Ball Alert. Shout out Robin. That's my girl. She's going to be one of my influencers yeah so it doesn't have to be an artist it could be an influencer as well I reached out to Kassanad all of them Drewski I reached out to see yeah the stream is but you know sometimes you got to show them I show them before happens yep you know but when you see that what I did last year I mean the gym we're in a

small gym it's in Harlem 119th Street in Manhattan Ave it's a small gym because I want it like the street like you know you go to the day everyone's on top I want my gym so when I get to where I need to because this is first round of I'm raising three more million dollars. And it's, you know, it's safe. So people don't know what safe are. I'm like, man, it's the best thing for an investor. So if the evaluation comes in higher or lower, that safe adjust for you.

So you never get a chance. That's what all the hedge, not hedge from Silicon Valley guys, they use safe notes when they raise money for that reason. Because you don't know. I'm starting to tech companies worth $100 billion. You know? What happens he comes in is only worth a million dollars. it adjust so your money is more valuable than thing it adjust for you so that's the reason we did the safe but three million my first round the first year it was just our money me and a couple

investors we paid it um but this next one three million and then right after that that'll cover me for two years i'll kill this new york area and then i look to go into baltimore chicago Atlanta with different leagues and raised another 50 to a hundred million dollars well congratulations on your league i think that's dope thank you thank you well thank you for joining us this morning Yeah, man, great conversation. That's right. I got to talk about one more thing before we get off. I got a movie.

I'm a filmmaker now. Okay. Nice. Ballin. I got Lance Stevenson is my lead, Safari, Trey Cheney. Cheney. Shout out to Trey Cheney. Yeah, shout out of Chayne. Lance is in the basketball player?

He's the lead. songs and I couldn't believe I was gonna just make one or two songs for the movie um why not Safari though why why wouldn't you get Safari to do to do it again I asked but you gotta come in right I thought you say he was in the movie he's in the movie okay but he didn't come to the studio got you got you got you got to come that's probably for the best shut up man no and you know I'm gonna send you said shout off Safari Safari is not like you might think as a person if you get to to know him.

His perception of him is really different than what he really is. I know. No, he's very good. He's very cool, dude. You know what I'm saying? But yeah, we did well. We was number one, five weeks in a row on Tubey. Go shit, go watch it.

It's out on TV. Oh, it's already out. Yeah, it's called. Ballin. Ballin, okay, on TV. No, it's based off of Alfred Hitchcock movie called Dial In for Murder. The way the plot twist is, we just put the culture for today with people like us. Alright, you know what I'm saying?

Real quick, are y'all related to Simbad? No, Simbad. You know how many people tell me is Simbad that look like me? You're trying to say you look like Simbad. Yeah, yeah. I used to get that younger. I used to get that younger. I don't get as much now.

And we just finished shooting another movie. So Arc Films with, I got two partners, Andy and Trotter. Shout out Andy, man. And Dwight, Rich Black Walker, you know, who wrote it with me there. And, man, we just. moving in with arc films i got i got so many films next year i'll have at least seven movies out damn that's dope yes 2026 yeah not me i'm not gonna have seven movies out no i'm saying why you're gonna ask me in then oh are you casting always we got a movie we got one that we already

cast it uh right now called uh raffle okay we're shooting in miami um that's gonna be fired to crazy great great cast of people already and then uh ever the director i mean boy wonder you know the producer boy, one of that. He's part of the, part of that movie as well. I'm always down to audition, man. So, Chris, you got something to me. Okay, I'll get your number for sure. Yeah, how yeah.

For sure. Thank you. We have a lot of stuff coming out, you know. And we're doing it for the black and brown. So I'm not Latin, but I do Latin with my partner, Don De Niro. Man, we just finished Spanish Fly, a crazy movie, a comedy. You know what I'm saying? So we got, we got it all.

I'm not Spanish, man. He's not either. He said he not, but he worked in part. He has a partner. I'm not Spanish. I got a partner that's Cuban. Oh, okay, okay, okay. And he's my partner. He does all the Latin side for me, but I, you know, support him with everything he's doing.

You know, it's funny because on my Wikipedia, they're someone put down there because people could add stuff. I never did my Wikipedia. Oh, yeah. He does mine too all the time. He called me a gardener. Oh, they put on mine and I'm Dominican. So I'm a honor, Dominican, too. Kelly's Dominican, too.

They said, Keokie. It's the breakfast club. Good morning. The breakfast club. You're not finished or y'all done? The murder of an 18-year-old girl in Graves County, Kentucky, went unsolved for years, until a local housewife, a journalist, and a handful of girls, came forward with a story. America, y'all better wake the hell up.

Bad things happens to good people in small towns. Listen to Graves County on the IHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. And to binge the entire season ad free, subscribe to Lava for Good Plus on Apple Podcasts. Hi there, this is Josh Clark from the Stuff You Should Know podcast. If you've been thinking, man alive, I could go for some good true crime podcast episodes, then have we got good news for you. Stuff You Should Know just released a playlist of 12 of our best true crime episodes of all time. There's a shootout in broad daylight, people using axes in really

terrible ways, disappearances, legendary heists, the whole nine yards. So check out the stuff you should know true crime playlist on the iHeart radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Short on time, but big on true crime. On a recent episode of the podcast hunting for answers, I highlighted the story of 19-year-old Lechay Dungey. But she never knocked on that door. She never made it inside, and that text message would be the last time anyone would ever hear from her. Listen to hunting for answers from the Black Effect Podcast Network on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. I just normally do straight stand-up, but this is a bit different. What do you get when a true crime producer walks into a comedy club?

Answer, a new podcast called Wisecrack, where a comedian finds himself at the the center of a chilling true crime story. Does anyone know what show they've come to see? It's a story. It's about the scariest night of my life. This is Wisecrack, available now. Listen to Wisecrack on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. This is an IHeart podcast.