The Breakfast Club - INTERVIEW: Delroy Lindo & Kerry Washington Talk UnPrisoned Season 2, Therapy, Trump, Aaliyah, DMX + More
Episode Date: July 18, 2024See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information....
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Hey, what's up? This is Ramses Jha.
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Wake that ass up in the morning.
The Breakfast Club.
Morning, everybody.
It's DJ Envy, Jess Hilarious, Charlamagne Tha Guy.
We are The Breakfast Club.
We got some special guests joining us this morning.
That's right.
We have Kerry Washington and Delroy Lindo.
Welcome.
Thank you.
Woo-hoo!
Good morning to you both.
Kerry, first and foremost, how are you?
You still catching COVID like it's 2020?
Right?
I am.
I'm back in the 2020 era.
God help us.
I'm doing okay.
I'm getting better one day at a time.
But thank you for being able to do this virtually because I love our show and I want to be able to talk about our show and not get anybody else sick.
So thank you.
That's right.
Delroy, how you doing, brother?
I'm doing well. I'm doing very well. Thank you.
Doing well.
Man, salute to you, Delroy, the legend. You've been acting for almost 50 years. How long have you been 50?
I lose track, but somewhere around there, yeah.
What does that mean to you?
What does it mean to me?
You know what?
I'm really, I feel fortunate that I'm still working, to be honest, man.
Knock on wood. And still doing work that people seem interested in.
So that feels real good.
Absolutely.
And this feels good, being involved with a project
like this. Isn't that right, Ms. Washington? I was just thinking, we're the lucky ones,
you know, that he's still working because he is, to me, Delroy is one of our national treasures.
He's like, he's an OG. He's on my Mount Rushmore of acting so that he's still doing it is so generous really because he could be like, I'm good. I've brought my a game. Everybody knows how good I am, but he's still like invested in everything he does. He makes better because craft. You know, whenever we get a glimpse of that meme where he's dancing in the club in five bloods.
That didn't look like acting to me, Delran.
It was like he was just having a good time.
I like that energy.
So, you know what, that's a good example of something having caught on that I had no idea about.
You know, but it's a terrific kind of example
of the work kind of reaching a broader audience
because the fact that it gets on the social media like that
becomes like a thing in itself,
which is an added bonus to being an actor and working
because, you know, when we're doing that scene,
I didn't think about that.
I didn't think that it was going to be on social media like that, so it's good.
How many times you had to do that take?
You know what?
We did it maybe twice,
because Spike thought about it in the moment.
It was literally, we're gonna do this.
Oh.
No, no, no, yeah, that was not scripted, right?
Wow. He came to us and said, we were in the club, we were doing another scene in the club, he said, let's to do this. No, no, no, yeah, that was not scripted, right? Wow. He came to us and said, we were in the club,
we were doing another scene in the club.
He said, let's just do this.
And I think we did it twice.
Wow.
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
We were getting to Unprisoned,
but who let you know that that was going so viral
and still goes so viral?
My son.
Okay.
My son.
And I started getting, you know,
look at this, look at this, look at this.
But I had no idea.
I had no idea. Now, season two of two of on prison is out now on Hulu for people who have never seen break down what on prison is about start from season one
Carrie you want to take that I mean I'm not only because I'm happy to talk about it but I want
Carrie to talk about it just because my involvement with this the reason I want Carrie to talk about it but i want carrie to talk about it just because my involvement with this um the
reason i want carrie to talk about it is because carrie is the one who who brought me into this
project and as i said last night um i i don't know if you heard this carrie but um
her leadership, her relationship to this project.
And because she has a particular relationship to the project,
she has a relationship to everybody involved in the project.
And she was the one who reached out to me initially to say,
will you come do this?
So, you know, it sits in her heart in a way that,
I mean, I want her to talk about it
because she's partially responsible
for getting the thing off the ground.
So you take it, Ms. Washington.
Sir, I mean, one of the things I love about being a producer
is that I get to be a part of work like this
with people that I so admire
and telling stories that I think matter. So
this show is inspired by the life of a woman named Tracy McMillan, whose dad was in and out
of prison her whole life. And it's really about this kind of intergenerational relationship between
a dad, his daughter, and his grandson. And when the dad
comes out of prison, he comes to live with them and kind of how the three of them figure out how
to coexist. So it's about what it's like to be a returning citizen, you know, when you're leaving
the system and trying to reenter into the world, but it's also about what it means to love a returning citizen and be
in a family that's grappling with how we are impacted by this so-called justice system.
And it's so meaningful to me because there's so many of us who have been impacted by the system,
who have family members who've been incarcerated or been incarcerated ourselves. I mean, we were at a
film festival last year when the show first aired, and we did four sit-down interviews,
and three out of four of the journalists had a parent who had been incarcerated,
and they were all different races, too. I mean, this story, I'm very proud. This story is very
much the story of a Black family and the particular challenges and joy that we experience.
But this is also an American story.
We are all dealing with the tragedy that is the justice system in this country and how
it impacts us and for generations.
One thing I would say is that you wouldn't think, having said all that, you would think
it's like a very heavy show.
But part of what made me fall in love with this show is that it wouldn't think having said all that, you would think it's like a very heavy show, but part of what made me fall in love with this show
is that it's a comedy.
I mean, it's a dramedy,
but there's a lot of like joy and love and laughter
because that's also who we are as a people.
Like we are resilient, we are survivors.
And this character that Delroy plays, Edwin,
is like such a beautiful example of how we may have stereotypes about who's in the system.
Or think we have stereotypes.
We think we know who those people are and we do not.
That's right.
I got to jump in really quickly because, Carrie, yes, we are a black family, but one of the strengths of this work
is that we are dealing with our humanity,
and humanity transcends race, right?
And I've been thinking, since Five Bloods, actually,
I started articulating this in a lot of the interviews
that I was doing around Firebloods.
If you think, you guys know this,
one of the main problems that African-descended people have had since time immemorial is the rejection of our humanity.
That's right.
That's the beginning, the middle, and the end of the thing, right there,
that we are not considered to be human.
Now, with a show like this, with work like this, yes, it's a black family, but I believe that one of the strengths of this work has to do with the fact that we're first and foremost presenting of those dynamics, I think, I don't know what you think, Kerry, but I think it's resonated, transcended itself beyond this is an examination of a black family, right?
And that's one of the strengths of this work.
I will tell you that last night, Kerry, we had the premier screening last night.
And this has happened to me a lot
in the two years we've been doing this.
Sister came up to me and said,
Mr. Leno, I just want to thank you for the work.
My daddy was incarcerated for 10 years
when I was a little girl.
And the notes that you all are hitting in
this work really resonate for me personally. And that's another one of the strengths of this work,
as far as I'm concerned, that it has, you know, piggybacking on what Carrie said, it touches
people in personal ways. And I'm not necessarily surprised about that, but it's every time it happens, it's an affirmation of the strength and the value of what we're doing.
You know, when you talk about, you know, I was watching you talk about breaking generational curses.
Right. That was one of the things that was most important.
You touch things of family members going to jail and how a lot of times when they come out, people feel ashamed.
You talk about biracial relationships, fathers trying to get back into their daughter and do those things.
So why was that all important?
Because those are all topics in our community.
Sometimes we don't necessarily talk about outside the house.
Amen. that's alive in this work of these three individuals,
myself, my daughter, and my grandson, Carrie's son,
played by Folly.
And I hadn't thought about this in these terms
until you said it, Carrie.
We're also unpacking what it means to love.
What does love look like, right?
And when you talk about the intergenerational blockages to that
and how, for instance, black men, as an example,
how we are socialized to believe we are supposed to be a certain way.
And your generation, my generation,
we're all trying to interrupt that.
And this show is at the heart of that
because we're trying to figure out,
and you say it, Carrie,
in the first episode of season two,
that we need to break this chain.
We need to break this process
of this intergenerational pathology repeating
itself over and over and over again. So there are all kinds of aspects to this work that, yes,
speak to the condition of being an African-descended person and what we deal with as
families, as individuals, but it's human, man.
It's human. I love, I love the, what I loved about your question was, um, that you said,
these are things that we don't necessarily talk about outside the home. And the reason we don't
is because we think we're the only ones. And so we have this shame, right? We have shame that causes us to keep our secrets and
not air our dirty laundry. The power of a show like this is that we get to provide people with
an opportunity to see themselves reflected on a larger scale, right? So people get to be in their
homes, but they know that they're not alone because we're all dealing
with trauma of some sort. We're all trying to figure out how to love our kids. We're all trying
to figure out how to love our parents. We're all trying to figure out how to free ourselves,
whether it's free ourselves from prison bars or free ourselves from the limitations that other
people have placed on us. We're all on these journeys. We're trying to figure out how to
love each other, ourselves. Yes. Yes. So we get to, with joy and humor, we get to kind of say to somebody, like, here's the dirty laundry.
Every family has it.
We're all navigating it.
If we can put it out there and talk about it more freely, we can actually free ourselves.
That's the joy of the show.
It's like this family's drama is out for you all to
consume and take in, feel less alone. And then we all move forward together.
And it plays out in therapy too. I was going to say that it plays out in therapy. Like, you know,
we've been talking about in the last couple of years, more and more about going to therapy,
but it plays out in therapy. And one time that was something that nobody ever talked about,
going therapy, getting help. So the fact that as a family y'all go together is is i think it's big as well before we get to the
therapy aspect i want to go back to the intergenerational thing because you know
carrie said something just now we don't talk about it outside of the house because we don't
talk about it inside of the house and that's what i love that y'all doing the show y'all are having
those intergenerational conversations within the house so just talk to people about how important
it is to have intergenerational conversations to the house. So just talk to people about how important it is to have intergenerational conversations,
to not be so segregated in the home.
Oh, man.
As we're all talking this morning,
and I'm listening to Kerry,
and I'm listening to the questions you guys are coming up with,
what's occurring to me as it relates to your question
and as it relates to just my own life,
there's a safety.
We get to examine these dynamics
within the construct of this television show, right?
Frankly and partially,
my answer to your question
is that I get to investigate for myself
as a human being on the planet
how these things,
how intergenerational trauma, pathology,
has impacted me.
And I get to use the conduit of Edwin,
the character that I'm playing,
to investigate some things
that are very personal to me.
As a result of that, I come on a show like this,
and we, in this case, as black men, as black women,
get to discuss these things, right?
And honestly, sometimes I feel I can,
and I've said this before,
sometimes I feel I can be more articulate in my work addressing certain issues than I can as a regular human being.
That's trippy, frankly. recognize that, acknowledge that, then I'm faced with the challenge of,
okay, man, you did this in an acting job.
Now address it for yourself
outside of the process of acting.
That's right.
Right.
At least you opened up the conversation.
You opened up the conversation.
You opened up the conversation.
Yeah, I mean, I think one of the things
that's powerful is that for me,
when you watch the show, if you watch it with loved ones, you have in the same way that Delroy is saying, like, he can explore his issues through Edwin.
You also somebody watching the show can explore their issues through Paige, my character.
Right. All day long. You can have a conversation with your husband about something that Paige is going through.
And it gives you like space to kind of hide behind Paige is crazy because she's a little bit neurotic and crazy.
And and and that way it makes it easier.
I think when our store, when the storytelling that we're exposed to is telling the truths about all of us then it makes everything easier to talk about
whether it's in our home or outside our home so hold on no go ahead carrie go ahead go ahead
okay so another personal kind of an anecdotal uh affirmation i'm in the apple store about i don't
know five months ago getting a new phone sister comes up to me in the apple store and says thank you for imprisoned
and she goes on to talk about the fact that her daddy was was incarcerated but then she says
i think i told you this carrie i'm not sure yeah you did my auntie is exactly what carrie
washington is doing that's my aunt right there. Again, these personal anecdotal affirmations that we're doing,
that what we're doing has a particular kind of value.
And going back to your original question, what do I call you, man?
Do I call you Charlemagne?
Do I call you Charlemagne the guy?
What do people call you?
Whatever you feel like, brother.
You can say Charlemagne.
That's fine. Charlemagne. Charlemagne, I shouldn't call you Charlamagne, the guy, what do people call you? Whatever you feel like, brother. You can say Charlamagne, that's fine.
Charlamagne, Charlamagne.
Going back to your original question,
I don't know that we saw all of the potential, Carrie,
when you and I had that very first Zoom call,
when you first kind of pitched this to me, I don't know.
When I begged you to come be on this show.
I wasn't going to put you out there like that, sis.
When we first had the conversation, we didn't necessarily know it would have this kind of
resonance and impact, but there was one critical, and I do need to, we need to include Tracy in this, right? Tracy McMillan, whose life journey has been the inspiration for this work.
They said to me, both Tracy and Carrie said to me, they wanted to break the stereotypical image that people have of a formerly incarcerated cat, right?
You think, oh, this cat's been in and out of prison since his daughter was a little girl.
His last bid was 17 years.
He did a 17-year bid.
But then Tracy said to me, but if my father walked into a restaurant right now
and just sat down and
started to have a conversation you would not necessarily know that he had been that he's a
formerly incarcerated that piqued my interest right there because then i said well what kind
of any what kind of a cat is this what's his personality the charm when i met him absolutely
so to to to what i'm getting at is the fact that from the very beginning, we were about the business of attempting to break stereotypes.
Let me ask you a question.
Sure.
You're in your 70s.
I don't talk about that part, man.
Okay, I'm sorry.
My bad.
You look good, my man.
You look great.
I'm looking at you like inspiration.
But the reason I say that is my father, he just turned 80.
My mother's in her 70s.
God bless him.
Yeah, absolutely.
So when I look at them, their way of thinking and their way of doing things is totally different from us, right?
So how was that what you're acting because things evolve?
So, you know, when my mom and dad, it was like a kid's place is a kid's place.
They didn't talk about things, but my kids is a lot different.
So how was it for you evolving to a different way of thinking a different
way of learning and seeing the world okay so i have a i have a son he's just turned 23
and the the joke that i tell and karen and i as parents have had these kinds of conversations as parents our relationship to our kids right um what i always
say about um for instance my father who did not raise me um what i took from the way that my dad
did not raise me he gave me a really good lesson in what not to do in terms of raising my son. And that's valuable. That's
really valuable for me. Um, I would say that because my son is 23 and I've been raising him
for, you know, 20 plus years, my, um, ethos, my philosophy, my way of being with my son has evolved and developed way before I started
doing on prison. However, I don't know how it is for you all, but likewise, I came up in a time
when little kids should be seen and not heard, right? One of the first components of, and I don't want to tell anybody how to raise their kids,
but communication is everything.
Everything.
Everything.
We have to talk to each other.
We've got to talk to our kids.
Because frankly, as you all know, those of us who are parents, kids see everything.
Whether they articulate it to you or not, they are watching. And they see everything. They do. Whether they articulate it to you or not,
they are watching and they see everything
and they know bullshit, right?
So I guess lesson number one,
challenge number one for me as a parent is
how can I be as, and I'm not always successful,
but how can one be as authentic as one can be?
And I know that's a very hackneyed and overused term,
but to try to be as genuine and open with my child as I can be.
And that's one of the challenges.
And by extension, how do we do that with our friends? How do we do that with our loved ones? How do we do that with our friends?
How do we do that with our loved ones?
How do we do that?
And it's an ongoing process.
But I got to say something.
I got to say something.
I'm really thankful for this conversation right now, right?
Whether it be the fact that this work has helped to engender this kind of a conversation,
but the fact of the matter is we're having the conversation.
And we're having the conversation.
Yes, we're having the conversation around the work,
but we're having a conversation around the ideas, the dynamics that this work has produced.
And what we as human beings who happen to be black are challenged to negotiate, right?
And I come back again,
Carrie, that sister who,
the young lady in the Apple store who said,
that's my auntie right there.
And looking at,
you guys have not seen the second season,
I'm assuming, right?
No.
Okay, so I looked at the episodes
from the second season a few weeks ago.
And I got to tip my hat to the fact, Carrie,
that you do not shy away from Paige's neuroses.
You don't shy away from that.
You jump in, both feet.
Now, you do, you do.
You jump in, both feet.
I finally found a character that's as crazy as I am.
Oh, check that out. Check that out. But you go there. You go there. You do it.
And as a as an actor working with that, working opposite that as an actor, as a human being playing against that, it's admirable.
It's admirable. And it all.. You know what's interesting, Delroy? I want to tell you what's interesting for me is there's something, I think there's a little bit
more of that for me in this season. And I don't think it's unrelated to actually the last time
that I was here at The Breakfast Club. I don't think it's unrelated to my memoir because there
was something about me writing my book and being as fully vulnerable in the world
as I could possibly be
that allowed me to understand that Paige also
was ready to be vulnerable at a different level.
This season, she's ready to be more raw
because she really wants to heal.
Like so much of what this season about is about guys is that my son is
struggling.
And so even though my dad and I have been like dancing around each other,
trying to coexist when his grandson,
my son starts to struggle,
that's the thing that gets us in family therapy.
Because we're like, whatever stuff we're working out, whatever issues we have, it should stop with
us. We should not be passing this on to the next generation. And the only way to do that is if we
show up and like unpack it. If we wrestle with the stuff that is limiting us
that is um preventing us from being who we want to be if we can unpack that stuff then we can
prevent ourselves from passing it on to him so you know i think a lot of it is like i was doing that
work in between season one and season two in my own life so much, that I really understand this like need
that Paige has to do the work,
to really figure out who she is
so that she doesn't irresponsibly
just pass her issues on to the next generation.
I wanna ask about that, Carrie,
cause you know, Paige is a therapist on the show.
Clearly she's a therapist who needs a therapist so I want to ask you
all of them do let me tell you if your therapist doesn't have a therapist
get a new therapist
I was going to ask how do you believe therapy is going to help Paige
but in real life when you go to a therapist
who didn't have a therapist
I think
one of the things I love about this season is
like some of the funniest
episodes this season
I don't know if you agree Delroy but I think our therapy scenes are some of the funniest episodes this season. I don't know if you agree, Delroy,
but I think our therapy scenes
are some of the funniest episodes this season.
They are.
Like last season, we had a big...
And profound.
And profound.
Right?
Last season, we had a big dance battle scene.
This season, we have an episode
where we're in family therapy
and it actually turns into a wrestling match,
like a WWF wrestling match. I've seen that. like a WWF wrestling match. It's so much fun. And it really is this idea of like,
we have to wrestle with it. We have to wrestle with this stuff. And I think a therapist,
nobody's perfect. So to me, I always want to make sure that my therapist is in therapy because
nobody is perfect. Everybody,
therapy is not about being wrong or bad or broken. It's about perspective and growth. So everybody
should be, to me, if you're a therapist, you should also be bouncing your ideas off of somebody so
that you are fully responsible for the time you're with your clients and you're not projecting your stuff onto your patients one thing one thing i did see that it's going to be it's
going to a lot of people are going to really take to it is when i guess there's a scene where your
son wants to talk to his dad and you're like nope it's not going to happen i don't like him it's not
going to happen and i know that happens in a lot of relationships where women might not mess with their baby.
That's not right, though, Carrie.
But you're like, no, they father.
And he's like, I want to text my dad.
And that's the rest of the mess that I've seen.
So talk about that a little bit and how that scene came came about.
It's so so, again, this is like inspired by Tracy McMillan's life, but also we have this incredible room of writers also led by Yvette Lee
Bowser, who is like a comedic goddess.
Like she was behind living single,
like all the shows in the nineties that we love the most,
Yvette Lee Bowser had her fingerprint on them. And so she,
she's part of why we're able to have this incredible comedic tone in what we
do. Also, Tracy's just hilarious
too. But this issue of like, you know, Paige has issues around control and she feels like
her baby daddy hasn't been present in the way that she's wanted him to be. And so she has a
block on their relationship, which is so ironic, right? Because she knows the issues that she deals with from her own dad being in and out of her life.
And yet she's repeating that pattern with her son by preventing his dad.
So I will let you know that they work through it.
And we do get to meet his dad this season, which is amazing.
And it's very humbling for Paige to have to, you know, be open to that.
And one of the things I want to toss to you, Delroy, because this is one of the ways you see
where the intergenerational village is so important, because there are ways in which
Paige doesn't know how to walk her son through this journey, but her father as another man can walk her son through this journey with a
different kind of wisdom and a different kind of presence.
And so you realize why it's so important for us to be able to work on our
family connections and heal our family wounds,
because the more that we're able to be in community with our family,
the more growth we're able to be in community with our family, the more growth we can have.
He is, my grandson, Finn,
is an extraordinary bridge between you and I on this journey.
Yeah.
And the young actor, Folly,
who's grown exponentially in this work.
And I met his parents last night and I told them and his mom started kind of, I'm gonna
start crying.
But it's brilliant that he is there functioning as this bridge and you know we're sitting here and we're having this
conversation and um i didn't know it would be all this i mean carrie i mean you know we didn't know
it would it would resonate like this we didn't know that it would it's telling a story that that
that needs to be told in our communities amen it Amen. It's actually a new story for our community.
It is.
Over the last few years, we've been having these conversations.
So to see it in art, it's like, wow.
And we...
Hey, what's up?
This is Ramses Jha.
And I go by the name Q Ward.
And we'd like you to join us each week for our show Civic Cipher.
That's right.
We're going to discuss social issues, especially those that affect black and brown people,
but in a way that informs and empowers all people to hopefully create better allies.
Think of it as a black show for non-black people.
We discuss everything from prejudice to politics to police violence,
and we try to give you the tools to create positive change in your home, workplace, and social circle.
Exactly. Whether you're black, Asian, white, Latinx, Indigenous, LGBTQIA+, you name it.
If you stand with us, then we stand with you.
Let's discuss the stories and conduct the interviews that will help us create a more empathetic, accountable, and equitable America.
You are all our brothers and sisters, and we're inviting you to join us for Civic Cipher each and every Saturday
with myself, Ramses Jha, Q Ward, and some of the greatest minds in America.
Listen to Civic Cipher every Saturday on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you
get your podcasts. Jenny Garth, Jana Kramer, Amy Robach, and TJ Holmes bring you I Do Part Two,
a one-of-a-kind experiment in podcasting to help you find love again. If you didn't get it right
the first time, it's time to try, try again
as they guide you through this podcast experiment in dating.
Hey, I'm Jana Kramer.
As they say, those that cannot do, teach.
Actually, I think I finally got it right.
So take the failures I've had the second or even third
or whatever, maybe the fourth time around.
I'm Jenny Garth.
29 years ago, Kelly Taylor said these words,
I choose me. She made her choice. She chose herself. I'm Jenny Garth. 29 years ago, Kelly Taylor said these words,
I choose me.
She made her choice.
She chose herself.
When it comes to love, choose you first.
Hi, everyone.
I'm Amy Robach.
And I'm TJ Holmes.
And we are, well, not necessarily relationship experts.
If you're ready to dive back into the dating pool and find lasting love, finally, we want to help. Listen to I Do Part Two on the iHeartRadio app,
Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen to podcasts.
So y'all, this is Questlove,
and I'm here to tell you about a new podcast
I've been working on with the Story Pirates
and John Glickman called Historical Records.
It's a family-friendly podcast.
Yeah, you heard that right.
A podcast for all ages. One you can listen to and enjoy with your kids, historical records. It's a family friendly podcast. Yeah, you heard that right.
A podcast for all ages.
One you can listen to and enjoy with your kids starting on September 27th. I'm going to toss it over to the host of historical records.
Nemany to tell you all about it.
Make sure you check it out.
Hey y'all Nemany here.
I'm the host of a brand new history podcast for kids and families called Historical Records.
Historical Records brings history to life through hip hop.
Flash, slam, another one gone.
Bash, bam, another one gone.
The crack of the bat and another one gone.
The tip of the cap, there's another one gone.
Each episode is about a different inspiring figure
from history, like this one about Claudette Colvin, a 15-year-old girl in Alabama
who refused to give up her seat on the city bus
nine whole months before Rosa Parks did the same thing.
Check it.
And it began with me.
Did you know, did you know?
I wouldn't give up my seat.
Nine months before Rosa, it was Claudette Colvin. Get the kids in your life excited about history by tuning in to Historical Records.
Because in order to make history, you have to make some noise.
Listen to Historical Records on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.
Hey guys, I'm Kate Max.
You might know me from my popular online series,
The Running Interview Show,
where I run with celebrities, athletes,
entrepreneurs, and more.
After those runs, the conversations keep going.
That's what my podcast, Post Run High, is all about.
It's a chance to sit down with my guests
and dive even deeper into their stories,
their journeys, and the thoughts that arise once we've hit the pavement together. You know that
rush of endorphins you feel after a great workout? Well, that's when the real magic happens. So if
you love hearing real, inspiring stories from the people you know, follow, and admire? Join me every week for Post Run High.
It's where we take the conversation beyond the run and get into the heart of it all.
It's lighthearted, pretty crazy, and very fun.
Listen to Post Run High on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.
Hi, I'm Marie. And I'm Sydney. And we're MESS. or wherever you get your podcasts. Like J-Lo on her third divorce. Living. Girls trip to Miami. Mess.
Ozempic.
Messy, skinny living.
Restaurant stealing a birthday cake.
Mess.
Wait, what flavor was the cake though?
Okay, that's a good question.
Hooking up with someone in accounting and then getting a promotion.
Living.
Breaking up with your girlfriend while on Instagram Live.
Living.
It's kind of mess.
Yeah.
Well, you get it.
Got it?
Live, love, mess.
Listen to Mess with Sydney Washington and Marie Faustin on iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.
We didn't know it would have this.
I did not know it would have this impact necessarily. But what I did know, and this is what I tried to speak to last night, Carrie,
was that there seemed to be a real commitment to we want to try to climb up this mountain. We want to try to traverse this mountain.
We want to try to do this thing.
And that was the, and we want to try to traverse this mountain. We want to try to do this thing.
And that was the, and we want to try to do it like this.
And I don't mean that it was kind of prepackaged,
but our objectives were we want to flip the script on this thing if we can.
And that was one of the things that got my attention and made me feel,
okay, yeah, I'd like to be a part of this journey.
You know, I think the irony of Miss Washington having COVID right now is that during COVID,
so many of us were forced to sit down and be still
for the first time in a long time.
So a lot of people had to look in that mirror,
and that made a lot of people start realizing
I don't really necessarily like what I see.
I need to go do some work on myself.
Yes, but I'll tell you a little secret.
If you were to ask me what did,
and I was like everybody else.
First of all, I got the first round of COVID
and it kicked me in my behind.
I mean, it did a number on me but if you
would have said to me in that in that eight months that you were in the house with your family how
has it how did it change you I know it did change me but I'd be hard pressed to articulate it
um one of the things that was and this is gonna sound so weird um but one of the things that was and this is going to sound so weird
but one of the things that was
I didn't mind being in the house by myself
me neither
I loved it
having the whole family around you
I loved it
the anxiety and parental paranoia was gone
I knew where everybody at
I loved it
I did too
and I was not aware of that
I was just aware of that.
I was just in it, just doing it and turning TV on and watching things that you wouldn't ordinarily watch.
That part, I dug that part.
Me too.
So what does that say about me?
But were you doing work before COVID?
Because I was in therapy before COVID.
Oh, you were?
Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah. No, no.
Well, you've always been doing work on yourself,
Joe, right? I think through your
craft, you are a very
self-aware
person. I think you use
the work to do a lot of
the kinds of self-reflection
that other people do in therapy.
I want to believe that. No,
that is true. It is true because I have not had, yes, I've had therapists over the years,
but my journey, a journalist asked me last night, she said something like,
you know, what's your personal relationship to therapy?
You know, have you been in therapy?
How has therapy, you know, have you been in therapy? How has therapy helped you? And I looked at her and I said, next question, please.
Because what that question did was it challenged me
to investigate my own relationship to therapy.
Now, I was not about to do that with this journalist, right?
On a red carpet.
On a red carpet, right?
But to your question, was I doing work before?
And to what Carrie said, again, it sounds like a real hackneyed cliche,
but my work has saved my life.
It saved my life.
It saved my sanity.
My work, my work, my work.
And my work has become even more important to me because I haven't had a journey, a consistent journey with a therapist.
I didn't come out of the school that said
I'm black man I don't need therapy. I didn't come out of that school but I had
this thing and I still have this thing in my head I wanted a black male
therapist. I felt I wanted a black male therapist and they're hard to find. I
mean it may not be as difficult now, but historically for myself, knowing years ago that I needed to be in therapy,
when I started looking and I was right here in New York City, living in New York, I wanted a black therapist.
And I found one eventually who retired.
Had he not retired, I would have stayed with him.
But it's hard.
It's hard to find a therapist that one really vibes with
who kind of gets it.
And I felt that with all of the other dynamics,
I needed a black male.
I felt like I needed a black male.
Somebody that's culturally competent.
Yes.
That you don't got to explain things to.
Certain things to.
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Absolutely, absolutely.
You know, another theme in this show,
I love any conversation about dealing with your inner child.
So,
so Carrie,
talk about the significance of the interactions page has with her,
her,
her inner child.
That little girl is brilliant.
She's Jordan McIntosh.
She's phenomenal.
And you know,
if you haven't seen the show yet for anybody who's listening,
go back and watch the first season also
because we get to meet edwin's inner child as well and it's it's one of my favorite episodes
of the series um but i working with jordan is so joyous for me you know when we were casting this
character of little page um there there were actually two actresses that came down to these two young actresses. And one of them looked more like me than Jordan.
Like she really looked like me.
And we were going back and forth between like,
is it her?
Is it Jordan?
And the difference between what they brought to the roles,
both extraordinary young actresses.
But the other girl who looked more like me
had this kind of sweet innocence of a child.
And Jordan comes out the box swinging, right?
She's like bold.
And she's so spunky and bold and excited and adventurous.
And what we realized in that process of casting,
we had to ask ourselves, what is the point of Little Paige on the show?
And what we wanted Little Paige to be was we wanted her to be, you know, that part of you that exists before society tells you that you're not enough.
That part of you that is brave and bold and fearless and it's before a teacher tells you you move too slow
or you're too loud or you're not pretty enough or you're not like all the ways that society gets in
your head and that's what Jordan was Jordan was that fierceness of page of me before the world
told me a lie that I was not enough and and so when we hired her, it was such a gift to the show because that's
what the inner child work is. And if you never heard of it for anybody who's listening, sometimes
in therapy, you'll build a relationship with your younger self, with your inner child, because you
want to go back and do the work to heal the spaces in you that adults weren't able to take care of. Because
listen, the adults in our life are not perfect. I know as a mom, I'm not perfect, right? Like we do
the best we can. But part of being an adult is saying like, okay, maybe I didn't get everything
I needed as a child, but now it's my job to go back and heal myself so that I can move forward.
I can't just sit around blaming my mom and dad and whoever, whatever teacher in third grade
for who I am today.
Like who I am today is somebody who can take responsibility
and heal myself and move forward.
So the relationship with the little Paige,
with my inner child on the show is so important
because it's part of how Paige is doing the work
to grow and move forward.
What about you, Mr. Lindo?
Well said, Carrie.
Well said, well said.
Okay.
Something that,
everything that Carrie just said,
everything that Carrie just articulated
makes me think about something that
I actually suffer from, and that is hiding behind my work.
Everything that, much of what you just said, you're articulating how you try to fuse who you are, where you are in your process as a human being, and how you apply all of that into your work.
Mm-hmm.
And specifically, unprisoned, yeah.
But I would say, more broadly, just who you are on the planet.
And that unprisoned is informing that.
It's not the other way around, if that makes sense.
For me, and you mentioned that little boy, one episode we had him, that young man,
as my inner child in one episode last in season one.
That scene, Carrie, where he came and held my hand.
Mm-hmm.
And the beautiful thing about kids, so often they're just being.
Just being kids.
They're just being kids.
They're just being human beings. And there was this profound, oh, God, there was this profound,
he came in here, openness and just their-ness.
And that connected me with who I might have been as a child.
And it was a really strong saying for all of us.
To your question, my response to your question is I am not sure honestly
I'm really not sure
what my relationship is
to
in the work
one does one's job
the result of one one does one's job.
The result of one doing one's job,
you then share that with audiences,
and it lands however it lands.
In a job like this,
and various other jobs that I've done that have meant something to people,
I do not, unless I'm asked by a journalist, tell me about X, tell me about Y.
I don't deconstruct how or why, but I'm kind of compelled to deconstruct when I'm asked certain questions,
when I'm engaging in certain conversations.
So when you say to me, what about you, Mr. Lindo?
My first response is, I don't know.
I don't know.
And on some level, that's a scary place to be.
But it affirms that throughout all of my foibles,
all of my insecurities, all of my neuroses as a human being,
something in the work centrally has some value
to my fellow human beings.
And that's why one wants to be an actor in the first place.
Is it because the character Ed, is forcing Delroy Lindo
to have to deal with some things that Delroy Lindo has never dealt with?
Because I was going to ask, even with the inner child thing,
you being an elder, does your inner child ever get the healing they deserve?
Great question.
When you get to your age now, it's like you go back to being a child.
Great question, great question great question and i would say that um i'm navigating that i don't know if it's my inner child i guess it is
my inner child i'm navigating that as we speak partially through the work but i'm also writing a
a memoir right now and in and in and in and And Carrie and I have talked about this somewhat.
But in engaging in that process and engaging in stuff that happened to me
when I was four, five, six, seven, eight years old.
Right?
Right.
Yeah.
Right.
Yeah.
First, how does one understand that?
How does one get to a place of understanding with that stuff?
And I'm unpacking all of that right now.
So I would say that I know more now than I knew four or five years ago. I know more now than I did 10 years ago for
sure. Your question, how is that for you, Mr. Lindo? It's an unfolding and evolving
process as we speak because-
But even that, I'm sorry, I don't want to interrupt no go ahead go
ahead carrie even that as i sit here watching you as one of our greatest as one of our wisest as one
of our best for you to have the courage to sit at a table and say i don't't know, I'm in process, I'm unpacking, I'm unfolding. That gives so many of
us permission to be in process. And to me, that's so much of what we need is just the permission
to not have to like walk out the door and be perfect and have all the answers. But to say,
like, it's okay that I have days where I'm not sure. It's okay that I have days where I'm not sure it's okay that I have days when I need help and I think I think that's one of the things that I love
about our show is that we're so in process we are a family that is so in
process but there's so much joy like we're not pulling our guts out to suffer
we're we're doing the work because you get to see all through the season
every time we do the work
on the other side is more love
is more joy
is more acceptance
more belonging
even when the love is flawed
it is flawed
all day long
and we're
we're in the mud and we're trying we're we're um what's this we're we're in the we're in the mud man and
we're trying to see see it and and and mold it and all that and that's profoundly human
you said something it's profoundly human you said something that that's connected to what we're
discussing right now you said i'm going on steven col tonight. Did you say that? Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Given the events of the last...
What day is this?
Tuesday, Wednesday? About 48th, Friday.
This will be Thursday when it is.
Okay, all right.
So given the events since last Friday
and Saturday and Sunday,
and you're going into a sphere where,
I don't know if you're going to talk about that.
We are because it's live after the convention tonight.
Okay, and I'm wondering, and this speaks to how we connect with ourselves and how we communicate in the world. How much realness do you bring to that?
All of it. Because this is a moment that's way bigger than us right now.
It's way bigger than us.
Way bigger than us.
I'm scared right now.
We're at a very pivotal point in our society right now.
But it's more pivotal than how pivotal it was last week.
Yes.
Of course.
It's sharper now.
Absolutely.
Because the way this has come down in the last four or five days.
Absolutely.
It's scary.
Oh, it's terrifying.
On top of what the Supreme Court is doing,
what I don't even think is a legitimate court anymore.
No.
On top of Project 2025 on the way.
Yeah. It's a lot, it's a lot.
It's a lot.
And what we've been talking about
in this conversation
has to do with a certain kind of truth
that we as actors are trying to get to.
Truth for ourselves as human beings,
truth for ourselves as human beings, truth for ourselves as creative workers.
And we're trying to bring all of that together
and we're putting it out there.
And now we, the next, another dimension
of having messed around with that truth
is now dealing with how that truth
has impacted our actors.
I'm sorry, our audiences.
Which is crazy is, you know, Kerry, a lot of this seems like scandal.
Like a lot of that seems like we've seen it before on your show.
Like, can you talk about that?
How this seems like it's like it's reliving again.
Yeah, there was a whole episode of scandal that this happened.
Art imitating life. Yes. Because people were saying that people were saying it's reliving again. Yeah, there was a whole episode of Scandal that this happened. Yes. Art imitating life.
Yes.
Because people were saying that people were saying it's staged.
But we know it's not staged.
But it was episode of Scandal where he did stage it.
Yeah.
I think, you know, one of the things that I want us to be
talking about more is that too many of us
are not participating in the process, are thinking that it's okay to not
vote, are feeling like there's no point in participating. But it's set up like that,
Carrie. The process is set up like that. I know, I know. But let me just say,
what concerns me is that so much of it stems from this belief that we have internalized that we don't matter.
And that's part of why this work that we do matters to me is because we tell these stories so that people see themselves so that they know that they matter.
Yeah. And I want people to participate in our democratic process because I want you to know that you matter.
Like this word democracy is getting thrown around.
What I want to remind people is that what it means is a government for the people by the people.
Now, we don't do that perfectly in this country.
I know that we all know that.
But we don't fix it by stepping out of the process. And I know that that's hard
because life is very hard for a lot of us right now. And we feel like we want to step out of the
process because the process isn't made for us and the process isn't working for us and the process
doesn't include us. We have to force ourselves into the process because the alternative is not a
government by the people for the people, but an autocrat,
which means like a president who does whatever he wants,
whenever he wants, however he wants.
And no accountability.
They're not being coy about it.
Like they have a very clear point by
point, this Project 25, it will have a catastrophic impact on education, on healthcare, on the
economy. And they're not being shy about it. They are telling us that they want to change the
government so that it is no longer a government by the people, for the people, that it doesn't even have that dream that it's going to be a government for the president and his friends.
And we are not his friends.
I'm wondering if, you know, the way the Supreme Court is set up, because I said they're not even a legitimate institution anymore.
I'm wondering right now, are we do we even have a healthy enough democracy to have a free and fair election in November?
Okay, so that's a totally legitimate question.
They're telling us we got to go.
We got to wrap it up.
Okay, but listen, one thing, Kerry, for all of us,
because this is beyond critically important.
It's existential.
It's existential.
I don't think that the people who are not participating
are necessarily doing it consciously.
Oh, I agree.
They have internalized this narrative that says,
as you said, you don't matter.
It doesn't matter.
You don't count.
It doesn't matter.
And you internalize that, And then it becomes WTF.
That's right.
That's right.
That's what we have to address.
When you say, sorry, go ahead.
No, no. That's what has to be addressed. That's what has to be addressed on some level.
The process in which folk have internalized just what you said it doesn't matter
how do we unpack that how do we deconstruct that and say yeah it matters and how do we articulate
that in a way that turns them on flips the switch for them i don't know i don't know. I don't know. I don't know. But I do. But I do know that all the concerns we have will not be fixed by stepping out of the process.
Amen. By deciding that there's nothing we can do that will not be sure that will not move us toward a solution.
So I don't I don't I don't know what each person wants to do, but there's so much that
we can do right now. We can check our own voter registration. We can reach out to five friends
who we know aren't planning to vote and beg them, try to help them to understand. Because
the best person to communicate the importance of voting is somebody's friend or family member,
not a celebrity, not a politician, not anybody. We can all support
grassroots organizations. There are grassroots organizations all over the country who are doing
the heavy work of democracy building. We can support those organizations. We can focus on
local races. We can volunteer. We can make phone calls. We can, if we have the money to donate,
we can do it. There is so much that we can do.
And I find that when I am feeling hopeless and afraid, the more that I click into community and try to do something, the better I feel.
So even if it's just like part of your own mental health strategy, because I believe that participating in politics is part of how I exercise
self-care and self-love.
I express my love for my community
by showing up in my
democratic process because I know
that it matters.
I just want you all to know this is the Black Dinner Table.
When you think about all the issues we covered
in a matter of 40 minutes.
Therapy, biracial, coming from jail,
everything.
We appreciate you guys for joining us so much. We need you guys back. in a matter of 40 minutes. Therapy, biracial, coming from jail, everything. Oh, my God.
I mean, we appreciate you guys for joining us so much.
Yeah, they're saying that you got to go to another thing. We need you guys back, especially individually,
so we can talk about both of your careers.
It's the 30-year anniversary of Crooklyn.
We got to discuss Romeo Must Die.
Hold on.
No, I got to go.
Right?
I know y'all got to go.
I do have to ask the Romeo Must Die question,
because Mr. Lindo, you worked with Aaliyah and DMX.
You played Aaliyah's father.
Does it make you appreciate life more
because you're still here at 71
and those two beautiful individuals have passed on?
Yes, yes, yes.
A thousand times, yes.
And I didn't know DMX as well
because we didn't work together.
But that young lady was such a beautiful
spirit man and I don't know she had this I didn't know who she was before we did
the film extraordinarily beautiful spirit she was like a sponge she just
wanted she wanted to learn she wanted to She wanted to move herself forward in terms of whatever her public, what her image was.
The young lady that I knew, that I interacted with, was a profoundly beautiful spirit.
You know, it broke my heart when we lost her.
You remember where you were when you heard the news?
I know exactly where I was.
I was in the ER with my son.
I was in the emergency room with my son.
My son had developed this breathing thing,
and we took him to the hospital.
He was being seen by a doctor, and I stepped outside.
I stepped outside to the parking lot,
and I started getting all these texts, so sorry to hear, so sorry to hear. And I said, what, what outside to the parking lot. And I started getting all these texts.
So sorry to hear.
So sorry to hear.
And I said, what, what, what, what, what?
And then a friend of mine said, oh, my God, we lost Aaliyah.
And I screamed out.
And I didn't know I'd screamed out.
There were two sisters in the parking lot.
And they said, sir, are you all right?
And that's where I was.
I was in the Oakland Children's Hospital in the parking lot when I found out about Aaliyah.
Wow.
So to your question, man, one doesn't always think about these things in these kinds of terms.
I'm so fortunate to still be here.
But, man, yeah.
Wow.
And then DMX, we didn't have any scenes together.
I was walking down Canal Street.
I was walking down Canal and Houston Street,
and this car pulls up, a big black SUV,
and the window rolls down.
It's DMX.
Yo, yo, yo, yo, yo.
I said, oh, what's up?
He said, man, keep doing what you're doing, man.
I said, bet, bet, bet.
That was it.
But the respect, the connection, you know what I mean?
So the fact that they're no longer here and I am, I'm living, I'm being a parent, I'm working, I'm doing important. I'm having important communications with important people.
And when I say important, I'm talking about people who are culturally plugged in and committed to moving our culture forward.
And it's not just this cultural thing. It's the fact that we happen to be human beings, African-descended human beings,
and we're trying to move this thing forward for all of us.
And I got to say this.
It ain't just about black people.
It's about the condition of being a human being on the planet, of what we contribute,
what we continue to contribute, what we contributed historically,
and the fact that all the stuff we bring to the table, right, in this process of living
that constantly gets downplayed and undervalued.
And it's our jobs, going back to what we talked about in the beginning of this conversation,
to interrupt that process and say, ah, we're here, we're important, this is what we do, and y'all have to listen to us.
And it's critical to tell those stories to our children, because they will then take it that step further.
All right, well, there you have it.
Season two of Unprisoned is out now.
God bless y'all.
We thank you for joining us. Kerry Washington, Delroy Lindo, thank you so much. Season two of Unprisoned is out now. God bless y'all. We thank you for joining us.
Kerry Washington, Delroy Lindo.
Thank you so much.
Feel better, Kerry.
Feel better.
Wake that ass up in the morning.
The Breakfast Club.
Hey, what's up? This is Ramses Jha.
And I go by the name Q Ward.
And we'd like you to join us each week for our show Civic Cipher.
That's right.
We discuss social issues, especially those that affect black and brown people,
but in a way that informs and empowers all people. We discuss everything from prejudice to politics
to police violence. And we try to give you the tools to create positive change in your home,
workplace and social circle. We're going to learn how to become better allies to each other. So
join us each Saturday for Civic Cipher on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts,
or wherever you get your podcasts.
Jenny Garth, Jana Kramer, Amy Robach, and TJ Holmes
bring you I Do Part 2,
a one-of-a-kind experiment in podcasting
to help you find love again.
Hey, I'm Jana Kramer.
I'm Jenny Garth.
Hi, everyone. I'm Amy Robach.
And I'm TJ Holmes, and we are, well,
not necessarily relationship experts.
If you're ready to dive back into the dating pool and find lasting love, we want to help.
Listen to I Do Part 2 on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen to podcasts.
Hey, y'all.
Nimany here.
I'm the host of a brand new history podcast for kids and families called Historical Records.
Executive produced by Questlove, The Story Pirates, and John Glickman,
Historical Records brings history to life through hip-hop.
Each episode is about a different inspiring figure from history.
Like this one about Claudette Colvin, a 15-year-old girl in Alabama
who refused to give up her seat on the city bus
nine whole months before Rosa Parks did the same thing.
Check it. And it began with me. Did you know, did you know? I wouldn't give up my seat.
Nine months before Rosa, it was called a moment.
Get the kids in your life excited about history by tuning in to Historical Records.
Because in order to make history, you have to make some noise.
Listen to Historical Records on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.
Hello, my
undeadly darlings.
It's Teresa, your resident ghost
host. And do I
have a treat for you. Haunting
is crawling out from the shadows
and it's going to be devilishly good.
We've got chills, thrills,
and stories that'll make you wish the lights stayed on.
So join me, won't you?
Let's dive into the eerie unknown together.
Sleep tight, if you can.
Listen to Haunting on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.
Hey, everyone.
This is Courtney Thorne-Smith, Laura Layton, and Daphne
Zuniga. On July 8th, 1992, apartment buildings with pools were never quite the same as Melrose
Place was introduced to the world. We are going to be reliving every hookup, every scandal,
and every single wig removal together. So listen to Still the Place on the iHeartRadio app,
Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen to podcasts.