The Breakfast Club - INTERVIEW: Devale & Khadeen Ellis On Vulnerability, Connecting With Their Audience, Role-play Disasters + More

Episode Date: May 5, 2025

Today on The Breakfast Club, Devale & Khadeen Ellis Discuss Vulnerability, Connecting With Their Audience, Role-play Disasters. Listen For More!YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@BreakfastClubPower1051FMSee omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

I'm ready to fight. Oh, this is fighting words. Okay. I'll put the hammer back. Hi, I'm George M. Johnson, a bestselling author with the second most banned book in America. Now more than ever, we need to use our voices to fight back. Part of the power of Black queer creativity is the fact that we got us, you know? We are the greatest culture makers in world history. Listen to Fighting Words on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast. Hi, I'm Sam Mullins, and I've got a new podcast coming out called Go Boy, the gritty true

story of how one man fought his way out of some of the darkest places imaginable. Roger Caron was 16 when first convicted. He spent 24 of those years in jail. But when Roger Caron picked up a pen and paper, he went from an ex-con to a literary darling. From Campside Media and iHeart podcasts, listen to Go Boy on the iHeart radio app, Apple podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. You Feeling This Too is a horror anthology podcast. It brings different creators to tell 10 vile, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no,

grotesque, horrific stories on what scares them the most. You feel in this too. Listen on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. The number one hit podcast, The Girlfriends, is back with something new, The Girlfriends Spotlight, where each week you'll hear women share their stories of triumph over adversity.

You'll meet June, who founded an all-female rock band in the 1960s. I might as well have said, we're going to walk on the moon. But she showed them who's boss. They would rush up and say, not bad for chicks. Come and join our girl gang. Listen to The Girlfriend Spotlight on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Yep, it's the world's most dangerous morning show, The Breakfast Club. Charlamagne the God, Jess Hilarious, Envy is out, but Lauren LaRosa is in, and we got some special guests.

Deval and Khadine Ellis are here. Good morning my peoples. Good morning. How's everything? I'm blessed black and highly favored. How y'all feeling? I love that. I'm feeling good, happy to be back, back home.

Thank you. Y'all look good too. It's a glow that I feel like I have the minute I hit LaGuardia Airport. It's just being back home in Brooklyn. I feel like it brings us to life again. You miss New York for real? I do, I do.

You have enough to move back. Not enough to life again. You miss New York for real? I do. I do. Not enough to move back. Not enough to move back. Sure will. She missed it just a little bit. I come and get my little fix, you know. And get my bacon, egg, and cheese, what I gotta get and I get back.

There you go, there you go. Now y'all are here for a bunch of different things, but y'all rebranded the Deadass Podcast to Ellis Ever After. We did. Let's discuss the growth of that title. Yeah. Well it was a lot for us.

So when we first started Deadass Podcast, it was just, you know, it was like we were joking about men versus women and what husbands feel versus wives feel. But over the course of six years, we watched how that kinda exploded on the internet. And we don't wanna take credit for being the reason why there's a man versus woman debate,

but the shit is annoying. Yeah, we kinda just feel like we want to put out content that people can say, let's elevate and move forward. So let's talk about topics that really affect us. For example, we will take credit for this. In 2017, we vlogged our third son being born at home. And we vlogged the whole process for about six months. And a new study came out that as of 2018,

home births in black community have gone up. And we feel like that's a direct correlation for us showing young black girls that there's a different option. And the reason why that happened was because with our first child, we almost lost Kay. She had to have 24 stitches. A serval.

27. My bad, let me not take away your stitches. Give me my war scars. You know, we had babies, we know what it is. That's right, that's right. But no, you're right. Yeah, she had to have emergency surgery right after pregnancy, and we did a lot of studies

on black maternal health, and we was like, let's just use our platform to focus on positivity. So we said, LSEVRAFT, there is a change, because this is us after we've evolved as humans, gone to therapy, worked on being a better couple, worked on being a better people. So that's what it's about. So it had nothing to do with moving out of New York

and not even using the term dead ass no more? No, we still use that. We still use that. We sure did. We sure did. And the crazy part about it, we had to fight for the name dead ass initially because, you know, if you're not from New York and if you're at these companies that have, you know, mostly white folks that just like,

we don't know what that means, how will we ever get ad dollars behind a name like that? They're not gonna subscribe to that. So there was a lot of explaining that had to be done. But we stayed true to it. I think part of us really didn't wanna detach from that New York persona for a long time. But it's time.

I do like Ella's ever after though. Who made that up? Did y'all collectively or that was you? It was him. I'll take credit for it, but we always do everything collective. Even dead ass. Like we sit down and talk about it. And we like, what you think about this, what you think

about that. We had a couple other options. We also liked House of Ellis. But we liked Ellis Ever After because it was the evolution of after what? After all the bullshit. You know what I'm saying? After all the talking about what we had to do to get to this point. And if you ever followed us, that's what we're known for.

We're honest about what we've been doing, what we've done. We don't hold back. So that's what we want to keep doing. I tell our zombies, what, 23 years in the game? Almost 15 married. You know, so people have literally watched us over the past maybe what decade on social media, just putting our life out there, sharing with people, you know, hoping people can relate. Y'all are definitely the reference point for a lot of people because even my son's dad, Rome, oh my god, my first son's dad, man he, man you gotta listen to this man, he's dead ass. Even y'all shows he follows everything y'all do and he has five kids by five different you know moms you know and he likes to, he'll listen to one of y' your podcasts and he'll be calling them, telling them,

no, no, no, because Devel and Khadim said they was, you know, and he gets hung up on a lot. Creates a lot of arguments. But he ain't the Devel type. So you can't speak. Yeah, I would love to know how wrong Khadim really is. That's what I'm saying. I swear I was over here like,

that's a lot of phone calls on Wings of the Dead. Right, right. Yeah, you should just tell them, listen to the parquet, don't try to preach. Right. You ain't the fan. But it's right, cause y'all real life though, like y'all, the way y'all be going through stuff on y'all,

I watch y'all channel a lot, the way y'all deal with stuff. Y'all were the first time that I saw a young black couple that was still like, regular, like, Yeah, no, absolutely. Regular, like, they weren't so saturated, and like, I was like, oh, they probably hang where I would go at and stuff like that.

And we still do. Yeah. We walk around and people be like, why y'all hang where I would go at and stuff like that. And we still do. Yeah. We walk around and people be like, why y'all without security? Why y'all? And I'm like, cause this is my hood. Like, what you mean? You know? Deadass.

Deadass. So Rhyme probably felt like he could relate to y'all cause that's a big thing for your audience. I will say this about Rhyme. Devile now wasn't the Devile when I first started. The Devile when I first started was probably closer to Rhyme. I don't know him, but I first started. The devout when I first started was probably close to the Rome. I don't know him, but I was immature. I lacked emotional intelligence.

I didn't understand. You know what I'm saying? Damn. This is not how Rome wanted this to go. Rome, my man. Rome, my man. It was to be in touch, you know you, Rome? I love Rome.

But I take pride in showing the growth, because I don't want anyone to ever be like, I gotta be perfect to be accepted. Nah, fuck all that. I was never perfect, I'm not perfect. I may fuck up again. Hopefully y'all give me grace if I fuck up. You know what I'm saying?

And that's what I want people to walk around the earth feeling, like you don't gotta be perfect for people to just accept you. And if you expecting everybody to accept you, that's a problem anyway. Some people just not gonna accept you back. No, to be honest, we almost just didn't do the podcast anymore, so last February, we had a bunch of live

sold out shows, Apollo, it was like historic, it was great. So we're like, you know what, why don't we go out on a high? We did all we've done, I feel like we've spoken aloud, dealt with our issues publicly as a form of therapy through the podcast, right? And we felt like we've done all we had to do in the podcast space, and people literally were like, you guys cannot do this.

And to your point, we meet people on the regular, in the airport, random places, and they're like, y'all can't stop doing this, because you have saved my marriage, or you've showed me that I'm able to open up to my partner and bring up these topics that are once taboo or uncomfortable to discuss. And people say if they wanted to value,

you have to be a cadena and vice versa. So Tyrone, make sure that he's on the straight and narrow. Exactly. I think one thing that is great about what y'all do is it's just open lines of communication. That's it. Now, regardless of if you wanna start a podcast, that's what you should have with your partner.

If y'all wanna just sit in your living room every day and say okay We're gonna talk for two hours, but we're going to talk we may not record it and put it out We're gonna talk it's just about communication encouraging that absolutely And you know what's funny most people when we first started the podcast thought it was so crazy y'all talk to each other I'm like You talk about sex you You talk about money? You talk about- Or how could you talk to her like that?

Like people were offended for me. Oh yeah, they used to be real upset. They should be on me. I remember her, they used to, yeah. I will tell you, let me- They felt like you were like the super controlling, like arrogant, this is all about me guy. They did, and I-

And that was the farthest thing from it. I mean, from my perspective, but I get it. Right, and I had to accept that. Because you have to show people over time, right? You can't expect people when you first put something out to say, know who I am. It took years. We did our podcast for seven years.

15 seasons, won a Webby Award, but it took time in the beginning. It was so much like pushback. Oh, devour arrogant, devour asshole, he always talks down. But what I realized, they weren't used to seeing an educated black man speak about his emotions. And it triggered a lot of women. he always talks down, but what I realized, they weren't used to seeing an educated black man speak about his emotions. And it triggered a lot of women. You know what I'm saying?

Like that's the fact. Like I'm not gonna sit back here and not say what I need and require because I'm also gonna ask her what she needs and require and I'm going to deliver on that. But now it's my turn to talk about it and a lot of people didn't like it, but now it's come more normalized.

Like I used to, when we lived in New York, I heard Charlemagne every morning talk about mental health. My sons now know about mental health. It's not taboo anymore. And they speak their feelings. Mom, I don't feel good about this. I'm nervous about that. And we want to keep showing young men like that's okay.

You know what I'm saying? To be like that. Absolutely, especially when within our community, black men and women are always pitted against each other. And if we want our black men to open up to us, why not create a space for them to do that? So I'm like, Deval, I want you to be honest with me. It doesn't have to be brutal honesty,

but I want you to be honest and transparent about how you feel because I'm not trying to guess. Like the good thing about Deval and I for the years that we've been together is that we've always given each other a choice. And the choice happens because we are fully communicative about the things that we want and need. So every morning I wake up with the choice to be here

and I decide to be here and it's been working for us. You know, y'all been together 22 years? 22, about to be 22. 22, me and my wife been together 26, it'll be 27 this year. All right now, thanks. I wanna ask the ball, when did you, and this is gonna sound crazy to some people listening,

when did you realize K this is gonna sound crazy to some people listening, when did you realize Kadeen was a safe space for you to be your absolute most vulnerable? Wow, that's a good question. And I always preface, I'm gonna preface by saying this, the first five years of our marriage was terrible, right? And it wasn't terrible for the reasons people think it was terrible.

People automatically assume it's terrible because of infidelity or money, but that wasn't it. It was terrible because I did not feel safe telling her how I felt about things. So I bottled it up, I suppressed it. I would go in the bathroom, sit on the toilet, turn the shower on, I'd be crying, trying to figure out what I was gonna do with my life

because I'd just come from being in the NFL, making a lot of money, I had to start all over again. And I felt like less of a man, but I can't tell that to my wife. being in the NFL, making a lot of money, I had to start all over again. And I felt like less of a man, but I can't tell that to my wife. And it was one day, she was pregnant with Kyro. And I said to her, we was having a whole argument about stuff, and I was just at the point,

you know how it is when you a man, you get to the point where you just don't care no more? I was done, we was getting a divorce, and I was like, you know what, you lazy, you don't trust me, you don't believe in me, you don't do all this, and she's like, no, I'm not lazy, I'm fucking pregnant. And I was like, the hormones, like the attitude,

like the nausea, she was like, I was trying to find a way to surprise you and tell you. And I said, well, why didn't you just tell me? And then when I said, why didn't you just tell me, it hit me, why don't I just tell her what I'm going through? That was the moment. I wrote about it in our book, We Over Me, New York Times bestseller, by the way. But it was that moment.

I said to her, why don't you just tell me? And then it was like, bling. Why don't you tell her? And from that moment on, it was 2016. The minute I feel something, sometimes she don't be in the mood. I'm like, yo, we got to sit down and talk. And she'd be like, all right, here we go now. And I tell her, and the minute we done,

we've made a decision that we not gonna argue about it. We not gonna harbor no resentment. If we don't agree, we don't agree, but this how I feel, this how you feel. And we work towards being better. That's why I ask because it doesn't matter how long you're with a person, and it don't have anything to do with you.

It's really just us as men. Absolutely. When do we realize, okay, this is a safe space. This woman that I have devoted my life to, the mother of my children, is a safe space for me. It's hard for men to find safe spaces, man. But you know why though? We don't, I can't even find safe spaces amongst my boys. Forget a woman.

If I go to tell my homeboy that I'm feeling away, nigga, you soft bitch ass. And it's like, am I my homeboy that I'm feeling away. Are you soft bitch ass? And it's like am I you know I'm saying you asking am I you know what I am let me let me toughen up So if my homies feel like that about me, I can't tell my girl. I'm going through it. It took maturity It took me to realize that I chose this woman She chose me to spend the rest of our lives together what my homies think don don't matter, what the world think don't matter, as long as we can get on the same page. So she's always the first person I go to now.

But it wasn't always like that. And that's when we struggled the most. Yeah. And there's a resilience there. Because think about it. We could have thrown in the towel a long time ago. So when we meet people now and they're dating phases and they're just like, what should we do?

They're writing for advice on the podcast all the time. And we're just like, I feel like this generation at least coming up nobody wants to put the work in nobody wants to tough things out nobody wants to be honest you show up as a representative of yourself and you're expecting someone to be honest with you you know it's really hard out there so we went through that together and it was hard as individuals trying to grow at 17 18 years old now we hit the fourth floor, yeah, you know, we 41. It's like so many years of trying to grow together

to respect each other's space, figure out who we are, grow as individuals, raise children at the same time. I mean, when I look back on our years, it's insane. Yeah. Yeah. I love how transparent y'all are with the public and even with y'all fans. Like, you know, y'all built such the public and even with y'all fans. Y'all built such a fan base for marriages

and people who been even divorced, look for y'all for advice because y'all put it out there, the highs and the lows, right? How do y'all handle disagreements in front of your kids though? Because y'all real with us, right? How is it, and then parents, you got two types of situations like that.

A lot of parents don't like their kids to see them disagree at all. That's not us. That's not realistic though. That's not us. We handle disagreements as a family, spot on. If we disagree on something and the kids are there, we gonna have a discussion.

And the minute we have a discussion, I will go to Jackson and say, you see how I spoke to your mom? You see how I don't gotta be disrespectful? You see how I don't gotta raise my voice? Do you understand what it means to have empathy towards someone who thinks differently than you? And they be like, yeah, I see it.

And I'm like, now understand this, me and your mom may disagree, but that's my wife. Because they gonna be somebody's husband someday. They have to see what it's like. So I never wanted to put my kids in a situation where I was. My parents never argued in front of me. But then they would go in the room

and be screaming and hollering. I'd be like, yo, what is going on? Then your pops come out, you like that? Why you talking to mom like that? He looking at you like, boy, that's my wife. Right. No checking. No explanation, nothing.

But then that didn't give me any emotional maturity to deal with my wife for the first five years. So there was a couple of days where I came home and I was making money, she wasn't working, and the food wasn't ready, cause she had Jackson, and I'm like, what's going on? Cause I'm thinking that this is what a man's supposed to be. And she was like, she from Brooklyn.

She was like, who the fuck you talking to? I'm like, well that's not the response my mom gave my dad. You see the neck and the shoulder starts to go in. I just started to realize that that wasn't the way. Like the stuff that we saw growing up and we just felt like if I emulate this, I'll be successful wasn't making me feel good. We didn't know no better.

We did it. I mean that's what you was learning from just observing. Like there's no manual that comes with any of this. That's why I give my father a lot of grace because when me and my father had a real conversation and he told me about his mental health issues and I knew about his substance abuse, it just made me realize,

oh, he's just a man trying to figure it out like I was a man just trying to figure it out. Talk about it, Charlamagne. That's it. That's it. Two months ago, my dad stayed with us to help with the divorce. Oh yeah, that's a good story. And I'm gonna try to talk about this without crying

because I watched, my dad and my mom came, and it was the same thing happening. My dad was kind of short with my mom. And I was in the car, and now I'm grown. So I'm driving, and my dad gets short with my mom, and I'm like, yo, you're having a little tantrum for no reason, I need to chill. Right, and my dad looking at me like,

nigga, I'm still your pops. But he's still like, you know what, we'll talk about this later. We go in the living room, and we have like a three hour conversation and just like your dad, he was telling me all the things he'd been through, all his fears, all his worries

and for the first time I saw my father. As a human. And I said, yo, you were just trying to do that, you got married at 21, you had me at 22 and my brother at 24. Wow. Like, who taught you? My grandfather was an army guy, didn't talk much,

you know what I'm saying? Do as I say, not as I do. Follow my lead. Like nobody spoke. So after speaking to my father, man, my heart got so big. Because I saw him as a person. Like now he my dude now. Like yo pops, let's talk.

And here's the funny part. He said to me at the end of it, I got to be better for your mom. I was like, that's why I said I'm trying to do it, not cry. Because my mom is my heart. You know, you grow up in a house and you're, well my mom's small in status, she's five two. And my dad is six four, he big, right? And I see sometimes my mom's be like,

I'm not even dealing with him today. And I told her, my mom don't have a voice in this house because sometimes you don't give her a voice. And he looked at me and said, I'm gonna do better for your mom. And for the rest of the week, I saw him try. Now, he still had the slip ups, like we all do, like I do, you know?

But he tried and I was like, this is making me feel good, because it's not always about paying it forward. Sometimes you gotta pay it back. Teach that generation how we do things now. And he's open to it. Our podcast even, we meet people who are older than us and they will be like, wow, you guys are younger, but you guys are talking about things

that I've experienced my entire life. We've actually opened up the gates for discussions too with my side of family as well. Coming from a Caribbean household, having discussions about how you feel about things, that wasn't really a thing. And my mom has opened up to her son-in-law in ways that she hasn't even opened up to me.

I feel like as a family unit, intergenerationally, we're starting to just heal. So that way we can pass that down to our boys, you know? And to piggyback off of Deval with your question, Jess, they see sometimes the disagreements, but there is such an abundance of love in our house that we sometimes get flack for Deval know, grabbing my ass or you know, walking past and kissing and you know,

kairosic and so on. We like, get away from each other. But the love is so abundant that the moments that we may have disagreements, it far is like outweighed by what you see between mom and dad and the love that we share. You said that your mother-in-law is talking to you now. Yeah.

Like, differently now. Like, what are the conversations like now at this stage of the marriage? Versus where they were prior. Once again, understanding where to meet my mother-in-law. My mother-in-law's a West Indian woman from Jamaica, came here when she was 17. There's a lot of intersectionality

between West Indian people and American people, right? But there's also a lot of disconnect, right? Coming here, a lot of West Indian people just thought that Americans were lazy, because we wouldn't do the jobs that they were willing to come over here and do. And I had to explain to her our thought process as black Americans and what we fought for.

But us even talking about history as black people led to me understanding, like, why did you come here? She said, I came here at 17 from Jamaica looking for a better life. I came here by myself, had to live with my mom's friends. If I came home late from working at Burger King, I had to sleep in the hallway on the floor because they thought that I was out gallivanting.

I started to see her. When I started to see her and realize who she was and realize how she protected the things she loved, I understood why she was so hard on me when I was coming after and courting her daughter. So once I was able to put my wall down, because I saw her, I was able to understand. And then once I put my wall down, she put hers. And now in the house, that's my biggest ally.

Cause when she's my mother-in-law will be like, Kadeem. Yo, K-Pop fans, it's your boy, Bom Han, and I'm bringing you something epic. Introducing the K-Factor, the podcast that takes you straight into the heart of K-pop. We're talking music reviews, exclusive interviews, and deep dives into the industry like never before. From producers and choreographers to idols and trainees, we're bringing you the real stories behind the music that you love. And yeah, we're keeping it a hundred discussing everything from comebacks and concepts to the mental health side of the business Because kpop isn't just a genre. It's a whole world and we're exploring every corner of it

And here's the best part fans get to call in drop opinions and even join us live at events You never know where we might pop up next So listen to the kfactor on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcast, or wherever you get your podcast. This isn't just a podcast, it's a movement. Are you ready? Let's go. My husband has a secret son from a past partner. Hold up Sam, how do we know how we done the DNA test? Well, John, luckily it's Mother May I Have a DNA Test Week on the OK Storytime podcast, so we'll find out soon. And this wife writes, my husband received a Facebook message

from a woman saying that he is the father of a five-year-old. Whoa! At first he didn't remember her, but then he realized they had a one-night stand right before we started dating. Wait, but do we have proof he's the dad? Well, the author says there's no confirmation

the kid is even his son, but the woman from Facebook has a meeting with her lawyer soon. I think she's going after our money. If the kid is actually my husband's, she would be entitled to it too. So what's a husband got to say about this? This could be his kid.

Well, apparently he broke down in the middle of the living room apologizing, but this is what scared me. His first instinct, if the kid is his son, is to pay the child support, but not be an active father in the kid's life because he only wants a family with me, his wife. Oh, this is a mess.

To hear the explosive finale, follow OK Storytime on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Hey, my name's Jay Shetty, and I'm the host of On Purpose. I just had a great conversation with Michelle Obama. To whom much is given, much is expected. The guilt comes from, am I doing enough?

Me, Michelle Obama, to say that to a therapist. So let's unpack that. Former First Lady Michelle Obama and someone who knows her best, her big brother Craig will be hosting a podcast called IMO. What have been your personal journeys with therapy? We need to be coached throughout our lives. My mom wanted us to be independent children and

she would always tell me stop worrying about your sister. Having been the first lady of the entire country and representing the country in the world I couldn't afford to have that kind of disdain. What would you say has been the most hardest recent test of fear? Listen to On Purpose with Jay Shetty on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. I found out I was related to the guy that I was dating.

I don't feel emotions correctly. I am talking to a felon right now, and I cannot decide if I like him or not. Those were some callers from my call-in podcast, Therapy Gecko. It's a show where I take real phone calls from anonymous strangers all over the world as a fake gecko therapist and try to dig into their brains and learn a little bit about their lives. I know that's a weird concept but I promise it's pretty interesting if you give it a shot. Matter of fact, here's a few more examples

of the kinds of calls we get on this show. I live with my boyfriend, and I found his piss jar in our apartment. I collect my roommates' toenails and fingernails. I have very overbearing parents. Even at the age of 29, they won't let me move out of their house. So if you want an excuse to get out of your own head and see what's going on in someone

else's head search for therapy gecko on the iHeartRadio app, Apple podcasts or wherever you get your podcasts. It's the one with the green guy on it. When the last time you're going on a date. I'm like when the last time you've been on a date minding my business. But it's good. I'll have the kids she'll tell her like yo go put on something that's what- I'm like, what's the last time you've been on a date? Minding my business. But it's good. But it should be like, I'll have the kids, she'll tell her, like, yo, go put on something nice, go take, and I'm like, this is the things that when people,

people need to see that. Cause we hear all of the messed up stuff, you live with your in-laws, that shit crazy. And I'm like, yeah, but maybe it's not. Cause maybe I can take my wife on a date, because the grandkids are taken care of by their grandparents. And people are like, oh, I never thought about it like that.

Yeah, it's just a different lifestyle. And you don't gotta worry about your grandparents. Yeah, I'll never worry about it. Yeah, you're able to survive. That's why we here today. They're holding down a fort, you know, with the boys back home. Also, man, just everything I'm hearing

is just have conversations with your parents, have conversations with your in-laws. They had a life before they were your parents, and there's so much you can learn from that about where you are now. Absolutely. I learned more about where you are now. Absolutely. I learned more about her by speaking to her parents. Yeah, I think we wrote about that in the book as well.

By speaking to the in-laws, you're able to kind of get a better understanding of your spouse and the things that make them tick and why they are the way they are. There's certain things about Devallah, I'm like, oh, that was a direct correlation between what happened with your mom or why your dad is the way he is.

So it's just about getting to have a better understanding across the board, yeah. I watched y'all on Lovers by Shen. Yeah, yeah. One of the things that y'all talked about, I was like, you guys are so honest about this, the conversation when he wanted you to dress up like the maid, it was a maid, right?

Yeah, it'd be a different character. Yeah, I don't know why I thought flight is in it, but when you said that you, like, y'all were talking about the fact that when he asked you to do it, you was like, I don't really know about that, but we can meet in the middle. And he was like, no, this is what I want though. And I'm like, yo, if I had that conversation

in my group chat, my friends probably would hate my person after that because they would feel like, hold on, what's going on here? Cause you should be able to make your choices. But for you, it was like, well, I wanna make sure that my man, you know what I mean? Because who are we trying to appease, the group chat or my man?

Right. Yeah. You know what I'm saying? But even talking about that publicly, I was like, oh, like they, y'all be really getting to the shits. Well, Lauren don't, she don't have a man. No way. So like the group chat.

Not even a piece of her. Yeah, that's right. She talks about her potentials. No potentials, Lauren. You're so cute, look at you. Thank you, I'm just over here lonely and looking. She was with girls this weekend in Atlanta. We had the Black Effect podcast festival,

she was surrounded by studs, then she went to Magic City, got with a scribble. And she gave me a light. She was living in the ATL light. I ain't mad. I be hey. Thank you, sis. Yolo, exactly.

Do you guys discuss how far you're gonna go in those real conversations? Cause getting into the bedroom, I was like, dang, nothing's off limits. Do you guys discuss how far you're gonna go in those real conversations? Cause getting into the bedroom, I was like, dang, nothing's off limits. I mean, really not. Yeah, I mean, everything's pretty much been on the table with us. Like there's nothing, and we feel like

if we show up as our true selves, nobody could hold nothing against me. Nobody, there's no room for you to create a narrative. You know, it's funny. We have with the evolution of the podcast now, a new segment that we've introduced that people are loving so far, and it's called Op or No Op.

And it's pretty much, do you have an opinion about this better or do you not? Okay? So we've realized that with social media, everybody got a phone, everybody got an account, so everybody got an opinion. Sometimes about things you have nothing, no knowledge about, no facts, no expertise,

but everybody wants to comment on something. So we're trying to now push forward about the battle of sexes is done. Now we're trying to push forward thinking to myself, do I, am I of sound mind? Do I have the facts to be able to comment on something and have an opinion or can I just let some things go? You know, like let's start that as a culture. Do I have the facts to be able to comment on something and have an opinion? Or can I just let some things go? You know? Like let's start that as a culture. Like we don't always have to have an opinion

about something. Yeah, like you know, I don't need to know if you think you can be the gorilla. Right. Right. Yeah, so let's start doing that. Like what do I think about, I don't know, what's the scenario that's happening right now

in current events? Anything in current events. Michelle Obama and the Barack Obama stuff. Oh and Kanye said, you know, what's the scenario that's happening right now, current events? Anything in current events. Michelle Obama and Barack Obama stuff. Oh, and Kanye said, you know, he was talking to his cousin's penis. Perfect example. Perfect example. Somebody asked me and Lozell, how you feel about that? I don't feel about that.

How do you feel about Kanye and something? Somebody asked you man. That's how it be. Somebody really asked you. That's how you get interviews. I'll go do interviews, I'll go do press, and it'll be press about the book, right? And the first thing I sit down, I was like, so I'm like, you guys here, you have a book coming out.

Kanye West said, and I'm like, what the fuck does that gotta do with my book? And they're like, well, what'd you think about it? I don't think about it. Until you told me about it, I didn't know what happened. So I don't have an opinion on it. And then just like, you don't? No.

How did it get from your family to the dick that he was? Because let's think about the world, right? Bow. That's it. I wouldn't even exactly. a lot of me is that so we're leaving entertain you see how they try to correlate it yeah I was coming on the family tip like well Kanye said he can't see his kids because he came out I would have actually well I mean that's that's how they tried to like yeah yeah but ultimately is clickbait because what they wanted was to be like devout talks about Kanye yeah that's ultimately what they want right so we're trying to create a trend where it's like,

say for example, Charlamagne just asked, what do you think about it? And then the interview goes, I don't have an opinion. And then now you're disappointed. It's like, nobody wanna hit, yeah. Yeah. Like I don't wanna talk about that. I don't wanna talk about any of that.

I do wanna bring up something though. What's that? Because Lauren brought up about the sex thing. And I do want to bring up this point. If a man says this is what I require, this is what I want. The first thing in the group chat, all the girls, is nuh-uh, you should be able to have a choice to da-da-da-da-da, right?

But as her husband, I ask her, what do you want? What you require? And the minute she says what she wants and require, there's no negotiating. So for us, what you require? And the minute she says what she wants and require, there's no negotiating. So for us, what we're trying to show people is that there doesn't have to be a battle of the sexes. She said that her man want this, she gonna do it. He said his wife want this, he gonna do it.

And why would we not wanna do that for each other? Because who else am I doing it for? I'm not pledging allegiance to my gender. I'm pledging allegiance to my partner. Like this is- That's a bar there. For the rest of y'all, make sure y'all get that on camera. You know what I'm not pledging allegiance to my gender. I'm pledging allegiance to my partner. Like this is- That's a bar there. For the rest of y'all, make sure y'all get that on camera. You know what I'm saying?

Do this, right, do this. You keep bringing the wrong camera. Make sure you got that one, I seen that. My God, make sure you get that one. Make sure you zoom in real quick. Say it again, say it again. What I said again, because I came off the end. Pledge allegiance to my partner.

I'm not pledging allegiance to my gender. Pledge allegiance to my partner. Partner, pledging allegiance to my partner. I'm not pledging allegiance to my gender. Pledging allegiance to my partner. Put that right here now. Partner, partner, partner. You got it right? Stop. But no, but seriously though, that's why it's easy for me to just be honest.

Because it's just like if your boys are upset, man you said that, yeah so. Like we ain't fucking. Like you not gonna do nothing for me. So yeah, so my wife wants this, this what I'm doing is a problem. Well I could if you let me do you like Kanye. Oh my God, you always gonna go left.

That was actually pretty specific. You'll never miss a moment. What happens in those moments though where you or her are like, yeah nah, but I'm just sitting on it and I don't want to do that. Then we talk about it. And like seriously, there's been times, there's been times like I'm like, yo, like yo, you ain't gonna dress up on that night. She just like, hmm. No, I'm not gonna rain check.

I'm a rain check queen. And I be like, can I rain check that for another day? But then in the morning, I'ma wake up and I'ma be, I get a tap and I'ma open my eyes and she gonna be in that nurse outfit or something. Cause sometimes she not in the mood. And we get it. We got four kids, businesses, this stuff going on.

You ain't trying to fuck the night okay? We got the rest of our life bro. You know what I'm saying? It's never a deal breaker like if you ain't doing this tonight then it's gonna be a problem. Nah, you don't wanna dress up tonight, fine. Or sometimes she'll be like, you know what, I ain't dressing up tonight but I'm gonna bless you though. And I'll dress up tomorrow. You know what I'm saying?, you know, and I just up tonight, but I'm a bless you though And I dress up tomorrow, you know saying that you talk about

Has there ever been a role that you ain't wanna play you like I ain't doing that shit. That's not I got stories and he dress up like the black guy in Chilke. Like Dr. Umar? Yeah. She was a white girl. I was Dr. Umar. And I'm not. You know what I mean. My bad, Dr. Umar. I know that's not sacrilegious to you. I don't want to go there. That would actually be a really good role play.

You know what I'm saying? Shut up, bitch. Take this, black bitch. No, sorry. He's so sorry. Sorry. This was out in California. Yes, I know that's where he was going, bro.

So I was very specific. He was specific. What did you ask I know that's where he was going, bro. So. I was very specific. He was specific. What did you ask for? It was like down to a detail. I had color contacts and I think I had done like a photo shoot or something. This is funny, this is funny, right?

She had did a photo shoot with Janelle. But she had on these hazel color contacts. She had on this big curly like wig. Yeah, it was like a big wig. I looked like different. She didn't look like herself. She looked like somebody else. So I was like, yo. I was like, yo, I want you to put on that.

Put on a cheerleader outfit. A cheerleader outfit, that's what it was. Bomb, right? So now she's like, I got you, babe. This was New Year, we were at our parents' house. We was having quiet sex for a couple days. So we was over it. I don't wanna no more fucking,

I'm trying to back that, you know what I'm saying? So we get home in Cali, right? I'm like, ready, I'm sitting at the edge of the bed. I'm waiting. She come out, there's no weave, there was no contacts, and she had on the leotard. It was this real cute savage, like we had a body pool, crotch lift. It was a vibe, I had a little thigh high to go with it.

And I was like, this is fire. No, no, no, no, it's not what I asked. And he was like, yo, he dead was like, that's not what I asked for. And he was like, yo, he dead was like, that's not what I asked for. She walked over all seductively, like she had music. We had a fireplace, she put the fireplace on. I was sitting in the mood, the funk shway was funk shwaying. I'm straight face, like this, right?

So she get down, she got her hands on my knees, she going down, like then she get to the bottom and she like, what's up? Like this is like, what's this? This is not on brand for you, sir. I'm like, where the contacts? She like, Deval, I'm downstairs right now handling business.

I said, no weave, no contact. And you got on this dirty ass leotard. That said 715. It was 715. I said Dusty. I said Dusty. I said Dusty. I said Dusty.

I said Dusty. I mean, top tier. I mean, top tier. 715. This dusty ass leotard. I'm like, first of top tier, this dusty ass leotard. I'm like, first of all, it's not a leotard, it's a teddy. And I had a- It was stained up.

It was, no. No, I said it because it wasn't what I wanted. It wasn't what he wanted. I was just mad. He wanted the jelly to join. I was just mad. He was mad. And I was like, so because you did not get

exactly what you asked for, it's a problem. I'm still here to do the job. And she didn't even have heels on. So I got mad, right? So I got up and I go in the bathroom, right? But it just so happened when I walk in the bathroom, I seen all her heels lined up in the closet and we had just moved to this big house.

I said, you got all these heels here? You ain't put no heels on. So I go in there and I throw all the heels off the closet. What the? He sure did. Now this is the funny thing. He sure did. And I'm standing up, I was like,

you gotta pick every fucking shoe up, are you kidding me? She says to me, look at your stupid ass. In there throwing heels around and your dick's still hard. Yeah. Damn. That's what broke me out of it. Period. I looked at her, I started laughing, and we started laughing.

And damn, bro. We started laughing. Yeah. Then after that it was a wrap. It was just like, yo, look at this. Yeah, it was like, look at us. Like, look at us. Like, look at us. And I was like, yo, look at us. Yeah, it was like, look at us. Like, look at us. And I was like, and pick all the shoes up.

Yeah, so we sat there, we picked the shoes up, then we got in there and it was. That was the one time it was like, he asked for one thing, and I was like, here, I'm doing something else. Q, and he was like. Sounded like y'all was role playing. Yeah. He was.

Y'all never, I mean, it's fun to be in there. It's marriage, yo, that's fun. By the way, that shit sounded like a Tyler Perry scene. No. You throwing the heels. No, no, no. Throwing these heels and your dick still off. The wig's not right. The wig's fun. By the way, that shit sounded like a Tyler Perry scene. You throwing the hill, let's get you. Throwing the hill, and your dick still on it. The wig is not right. The wig is not right. Six-winged.

Yeah. No. Did y'all, y'all never thought about doing a reality show? We've turned down several offers. We've turned down several. I am. Y'all do it on your YouTube channel, so why not? This is crazy.

That's the part why. Because we control everything. Everything. One thing I fear, because we sat down with, and I don't wanna put producers out there, we sat down with number of producers, right? This is always the first thing. This, this, and this. So, so, so, so, so, so, so, so, so, so, so, so, so, so, so, so,

I know y'all, I know y'all, you're perfect, I get it, right? So there's nothing to, you don't have anybody, like she's not, and I'm like, the first meeting, you're coming to me and asking me things, disparaging things that I could say about my wife. Man, get the fuck out my face. Yeah. Like, I'm not doing this. I about my wife. Man, get the fuck out my face.

I'm not doing this. I got four sons and that's what you want me to do? No, I personally, I know this is going to get some slack, but I love Bill Cosby. Not for the things that he did, but for what he represented. This man was so brilliant in the fact that he had a black psychologist on the set of the Cosby Show every day to make sure that everything they put out didn't show black people in a disparaging way. Right?

Like, when you think about the Cosby Show, A Different World, Lil Bill, this is the content we want to create. We have a cartoon series that we've been pitching for our, about our kids called The Ellis's and the Time Machine, because we wrote a book called The Ellis's and the Time Machine, Why Do We Have to Say Black Lives Matter? And it's an animated series about history. These are the things I want to do. I don't want to get on television and argue with my wife about trivial stuff.

I'm also not going to include my friends, right? For example, your friends with Jess Hilarious, what's she like? That's the stuff they ask. And I'm like, I'm not doing that. So we're not doing the reality show thing unless we own it. How y'all deal with people trying to bring out the negative or whatever?

Cause I remember when people were, a lot of people do still couple goals, you guys, but I remember you guys had a conversation. I think you had it again on the Lovers By Sham podcast too, about how when people post y'all as couple goals, people instantly are like, it's no way it's as happy and as good as it looks. Oh, all the time. And people, it's funny cause we's as happy and as good as it looks. All the time.

And people, it's funny because we have a contingent of people who've been following us for so long, literally since our Brooklyn apartment days when Devy was holding up his iPhone to now. So we have people who will jump in and be like, no, don't come to Ellyses. Like if you're new here, clearly you don't understand like the track record that they have and what they've shared over the years. And it hasn't always been perfect. But they've actually let us in to have a front row seat

to see them work through their issues. I will say this though, when you learn to have empathy for people, right, I can understand that if you grew up and you've never seen a positive black family and all you've seen is just despair and violence and anger, when you see this on Instagram, there's no way you're gonna believe this is real. So I understand that.

That's why I don't get upset at it. Like I look at some of my family, and they look at me, these are people who know me, and be like, you and Kane really always happy, are y'all? And I'm like, nah, we not always really happy, but we talk about the stuff, and they're like, you really talking? These are my family members.

So if a stranger who's never met me before feels that way, then I understand. You've never seen it. How can I be mad at something that you've never seen before? I have empathy for them. I think two ages is a part of it too, because for me, I've never, before I got here and saw Charlamagne and V,

be young in a marriage and they're happy and they love. I don't know young people who are just happily married. Maybe you've got one. Normally you're like, it's like they're old, that's why they're happy because they're like, where else you gonna go? Versus y'all are young, living life, your kids are growing up, y'all are doing things,

y'all both are working, y'all are figuring it out. Absolutely, figuring it out. And then people always ask us too, why, how do you guys keep this up for so long? I mean, you've been in the social media game doing all this for 10 years. And y'all work a lot. How do you keep it up?

And it's like, this is not a facade. There's nothing to keep up. We're not trending on something. I legit love her to death. This is just us literally recording and putting out our life. Oh, you put out so much, you guys share everything. We don't.

We share a 60 second video. That's one minute in a day. If you go back and look, there's 1,440 minutes in a day, right? I share a one minute video. That means you know one one thousandth of what happened my day. I tell people that all the time,

you don't know these people. You don't. You don't. You don't. But we also gotta understand that. They don't know us. So if they're commenting, they're commenting from their own experience.

Oftentimes it's projections. I'm never gonna let someone else's projection define my day. Like I can't sit back and look at the comments and then just be like all these people. No, unless you know a hit dog holla and you feel seen and you doing something unsavory and I was like damn they see me that's when you kind of feel away. But I don't. I know what my intentions are. So hey you feel that way that's what it is. When it comes to personal issues between y'all, do you feel like you have to work it out in the public

because of how much of y'all lives y'all share with the audience? Definitely not. No, there's a lot of things that happen behind closed doors. Again, to Devau's point, you see a portion of what we share. But we may, after the fact, talk about it on the podcast, like, hey guys, we were going through this in this moment.

Here's how we were able to internally process it, deal with it, overcome it, agree to disagree, and then we'll share it on the podcast and say, hey guys, has anybody ever been in a position where this has happened? And then more times, often than not, you realize, damn, I'm not the anomaly here in this situation.

There are other couples, there's other men, there's other women who are dealing with the same things. We've even realized that sometimes there's women who are more like, I agree with Devalon, this one, sorry Kay, that's me, that's me all day or vice versa. The guys will be like, hey, you my girl, I felt you when you said this. So no, some things we do still believe are for private places and other things can be for public consumption.

Yeah. Because people will feel like they know your life based off that one minute that you were talking about. Oh, for sure. And then they create a whole narrative around it. A whole narrative. Yeah. Because people will feel like they know your life based off that one minute that you were talking. Oh for sure and then they create a whole narrative around it. A whole narrative. Like when Kanye West said, oh I'm 14 now suckin' my cousin Dick. He could have been on the honor roll, he could have won a basketball game that day in school. That was just one thing. How we get back here? I'm just saying because people would act like they knew him. They didn't know you though but you're absolutely right. You're absolutely right. Honor roll. Listen man, the ball and Cardina Ellis,

I love talking to y'all because growing as individuals is a lot by itself, but growing as a couple is insanity. Insanity. You're not constantly communicating. You might wake up one day and not know who that person is. So we can learn anything from y'all is to constantly communicate with your partner. Yes sir.

And thanks for growing with us too, Charlamagne. I mean, we've been on the Breakfast Club a couple times. It's our third time. It's our third time. Absolutely, it's our third time. I appreciate you for always rocking with us. Absolutely, we appreciate y'all. And it's so great to meet y'all in this space.

Congratulations. Do not stop what y'all doing. Thank you. That's work that y'all doing and y'all making other people do it. Same thing here. Like, the things y'all are doing here, talking about mental health,

I can't stand politics because it gets on my nerves, but bringing the information to people is all we can do, right? The greatest thing you can give humans is inspiration. And the Breakfast Club is inspiring people. I hope y'all know that. We appreciate y'all, man. This has been a part of our lives since living here.

Thank you, boy. Yes, and my kids know y'all too. They shared it. The kids listen. We keep them still very, very New York. That's right. Very New York. Dead ass. Dead ass keep them still very, very New York. That's right. Very New York. Dead ass.

Well, it's the baller, Kadeen Ellis. Make sure you subscribe to the podcast, Ellis Ever After, if you're not subscribed already. It's The Breakfast Club. Wake that ass up. Early in the morning. The Breakfast Club. I'm ready to fight. Oh, this is fighting words.

Okay. I'll put the hammer back. Hi, I'm George M. Johnson, a bestselling author with two books, three books, and three books. I'm a big fan of yours. I'm a big fan of yours. I'm a big fan of yours. I'm a big fan of yours. I'm a big fan of yours. I'm a big fight. Oh, this is fighting words. Okay, I'll put the hammer back. Hi, I'm George M. Johnson, a bestselling author

with the second most banned book in America. Now more than ever, we need to use our voices to fight back. Part of the power of black queer creativity is the fact that we got us, you know? We are the greatest culture makers in world history. Listen to Fighting Words on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Hi, I'm Sam Mullins,

and I've got a new podcast coming out called Go Boy, the gritty true story of how one man fought his way out of some of the darkest places imaginable. Roger Caron was 16 when first convicted. Had spent 24 of those years in jail. But when Roger Caron picked up a pen and paper, he went from an ex-con to a literary darling. From Campside Media and iHeart podcasts, listen to Go Boy on the iHeart radio app, Apple podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. The number one hit podcast, The Girlfriends, is back with something new, The Girlfriends

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Come and join our girl gang. Listen to The Girlfriend Spotlight on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts or wherever you get your podcasts.