The Breakfast Club - INTERVIEW: Dr. Rheeda Walker On 'Unapologetic Guide To Black Mental Health' Anniversary, Faith, Therapy + More

Episode Date: June 2, 2025

Today on The Breakfast Club, Dr. Rheeda Walker On 'Unapologetic Guide To Black Mental Health' Anniversary, Faith, Therapy. Listen For More!YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@BreakfastClubPower1051FMSee omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

This is an iHeart Podcast. I'm Andrea Gunning, host of the podcast Betrayal. Police Lieutenant Joel Kern used his badge to fool everyone. Most of all, his wife, Caroline. He texted, I've ruined our lives. You're going to want to divorce me. How far would he go to cover up what he'd done? The fact that you lied is absolutely horrific.

And quite frankly, I question how many other women are out there that may bring forward allegations in the future. Listen to Betrayal on the iHeart radio app, Apple podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Amy Robach and TJ Holmes here. Diddy's former protege, television personality, Denity King alum Aubrey O'Day joins us to provide a unique perspective on the trial that has captivated the attention of the nation. It wasn't all bad,

but I don't know that any of the good was real. I went through things there. Listen to Amy and TJ presents Aubrey O'Day, covering the Diddy Trial on the iHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. The Made for This Mountain podcast exists to empower listeners to rise above their inner struggles and face the mountain in front of them.

So during Mental Health Awareness Month, tune into the podcast, focus on your emotional wellbeing, and then climb that mountain. You will never be able to change or grow through the thing that you refuse to identify, the thing that you refuse to say, hey, this is my mountain. This is the struggle. Listen to Made for This Mountain on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Have you ever thought about going voiceover?

I'm Hope Woodard, a comedian, creator, and seeker of male validation. I'm also the girl behind voiceover, the movement that exploded in 2024. You might hear that term and think it's about celibacy, but to me, voiceover is about understanding yourself outside of sex and relationships. It's flexible, it's customizable, and it's a personal process. Singleness is not a waiting room. You are actually at the party right now.

Let me hear it. Yes. Listen to VoiceOver on the iHeartRadio app, Apple podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Wake that ass up. In the morning. The Breakfast Club. Morning everybody is DJ Envy, Jess Hilarious, Charlamagne the Guy. We are the Breakfast Club. We got a special guest in the building. Yes, indeed. We have Dr. Rita Walker. Welcome back.

Thank you. It's great to be here with you all. Great to have you. Dr. Rita Walker is the author of one of my favorite books ever, The Unapologetic Guide to Black Mental Health. I recommend it to everybody and you are celebrating the fifth anniversary of the release of The Unapologetic Guide to Black Mental Health. Jesus Christ, time don't be playing, boy. Yeah, I mean, five years, God is good.

And I never would have expected that the book would have had the impact that it's had. Meeting you, being able to talk to you all, the folks who have come to me and said the book has changed their life, you know, that they buy the book for their family members and for friends, they have book club meetings, it's just, you know, it's been a blessing.

It really has. I remember when I read it, Debbie Brown, our good sister Debbie Brown, she gave me the manuscript and I read it on vacation and I remember reading it and saying to myself, where has this book been all of our lives? Well it's been you know it's been a process. So I earned my PhD more than 20 years ago and you know working on trying to understand specifically for black people you know our experiences and trying to integrate that into

the larger landscape of mental health that you all know has exploded. Trying to merge what I know as a black woman, and I'm a first generation college student, my parents didn't go to college, and merging my reality with what I was learning and the research that I was engaged in, and trying to train PhD clinical psychology students, it took time.

So it took a little time for me to get here, but I'm here. Yeah, I noticed that it's not just about mental health. It's specifically for black mental health, right? Like, why is it so, why is it important to be unapologetic about who this book is for? I'm so glad that you asked that. Because as you all know, oftentimes, you know, black people get lumped in with minorities.

One of the labels that we use in academia is BIPOC, so black, and we include folks with indigenous people of color. But we know that black people have a very specific and unique way of just living life, of doing things. We've learned mental health from the generations before us and in ways that weren't always helpful, we learned not to talk about our feelings and emotions. We learned that. We've learned mental health from the generations before us and in ways that weren't always helpful. We learned not to talk about our feelings and emotions. We learned that.

What we learned impacted who we are while at the same time dealing with racism, dealing with microaggressions. Folks saying, pull yourself up by the bootstraps and we don't even have boots. That is a reality for us and we need to be able to talk about that. And that's part of what makes the book unapologetic

is that I said, yeah, we're not talking about everybody. We just talking about black people. That's not that it hasn't helped other folks. And I've had people from many communities, gay, straight, black, Asian, people from many different communities have said that the book has helped them, which is fine. Great, get what you need from the book.

But I wrote it for us. How do you handle black people who still think therapy is just white people shit? Well, I say, you know, God bless you. And then I talk to them about things that, in their language, and I think that's part of what made the book resonate. Absolutely. Is talking to folks in ways that make sense to us.

And that's one of the reasons it had to be for us, because we talk a certain way. And I use that in the book. And so and so you know I ask folks about their worry, I ask folks about problem sleeping like in the black community we have a lot of problems with sleep and don't even we normalize it and so I talk about the day-to-day kinds of things that people experience but have normalized and then they stay hmm and then we can start to have a conversation from there. I got it you got to meet folks where they are like and that's that's one of I introduced the idea of psychological fortitude in the book because we say mental health as You all know both start thinking. Oh someone's crazy. They hearing and seeing things that aren't there. Okay, let's just move by that

Let's let's let's keep it moving. Let's figure out how I can help people with a different kind of language It's been five years. What surprised you the most about the impact of the book? Oh my goodness. I think probably the degree to which people who are not black have said that the book has helped them. Really? And I think it's because there are some dimensions of mental health that are universal.

People worry. People have difficulties with sadness and low moment. And so what I do in the book is to talk about what do you do with that? So given those moments, and they're transient, like sometimes it's here, sometimes it's not. If we don't address it, it can escalate. And so I talk about that because we're humans.

So it relates to, it relates for a lot of different communities. And if you could add one chapter now, right? It's been five years. If there's something that you missed and you just wanted to add one chapter to discuss, what would that chapter be on? Oh my goodness.

You know, what I have thought about, I will say the most, is when I talk about suicide. So I start there in the book. I didn't necessarily wanna start there, but the publishers wanted to start there because that's my area of research. So that's the area of research. So that's the research that I have been doing for more than 20 years is trying to understand

risk and resilience related to mental health crisis when someone decides they don't want to live anymore. And so the publisher said, you need to start there. And I was like, ooh, I don't think that's a good idea, not for my community. And since then, we've had conversations and they say, you know, okay, yeah, we kinda get it. And so that's one thing I would definitely do is to ease folks into that conversation,

maybe at the end of the book, rather than starting there. So just so you're prepared, I kinda start there. Okay, besides you gotta tag your head on. I wanna ask one thing about suicide before you move on. You know, I was talking to my wife about suicide because you see the suicide rates increase, especially with young kids. People blame it on social media.

They blame it on so many different things. Do you feel like a lot of times a suicide is based off of people not believing somebody's going through? Like almost like I'm going to do it because I'm going to show you. Do you see that a lot? I don't. What I do see though is people who are in crisis

and don't have the I do see though is people who are in crisis and don't have the language to communicate one or they don't think people will believe them. You know so people are struggling and there are a lot of folks who are struggling you know especially now and increasingly and they don't have the wherewithal to manage what they're going through or to be able to talk to folks who are not going to judge them. Because y'all know there's a lot of judginess in our society, unfortunately. And the sad thing about that judginess is that it does keep people from getting help. But the reality is, and I talk about it throughout the book,

that if we had a more informed society, and so this was my thinking. I wrote the book because the suicide death rates were increasing for black children age five to 11. It was decreasing at the same time for their white counterparts. And so in my mind, because I know when people are in crisis, it's hard to get help. And so they need the folks around them to be able to say, hey, you know, you don't quite seem like yourself or,

oh, I know you've been going through some things recently. I just want to check in on a zero to 10 rating. You know, I know you've been going through some things recently, I just wanna check in on a zero to 10 rating. You know, where are you? And so in my mind, if we have a community around the struggling person, then that's gonna help them so much more than asking them to reach out for help when they're already in crisis.

I'm glad you brought it up. I'm sorry. You called out beliefs like just pray about it, right, as being part of the reason that black people don't get formal help What backlash did you face from that? You know? It's funny because I did have a couple ordained ministers to read that chapter before it went into the book and One of them thanked me and the other one said

Dr. Walker, we just gonna have to agree to disagree and that was fine because I needed to be Dr. Walker, we just gonna have to agree to disagree. And that was fine because I needed to be unapologetic in calling out some of the things that we do in the community that are problematic. Like saying pray about it, when someone is really very depressed and if you say that to them and then they start to think, well maybe it's something wrong with me

and my relationship with God because I have been praying. Why would you think I haven't prayed? And so telling someone to pray about it, well, tell them what to pray for. Ask them to, or advise them to pray for a mental health professional who's going to help them. You know, ask them to pray for someone who's gonna give them a good, strong reference

or something that they can do or hold onto. But to say, pray about it and good luck, that's not helping people. And it saddens me and it's almost heartbreaking when I still hear that, you know, in 2025. And I hate how I'm sorry. I hate how people think it got to be either or. Like you can have God and therapy because if I break my arm right now, you might pray for me, but you still won't see me to a doctor.

Yes, absolutely. And there's someone who's made a T-shirt that said, you know, that I pray, I pray and go to therapy. I pray and go to therapy. Yeah, pray and go to therapy, yeah. Like, please do, and even better, pray for a therapist who has some spiritual mindedness that they can help you to integrate your faith in with the therapy, and that's something

that I train PhD psychology students to be able to do. You gotta first ask someone, because not everyone is a believer, but ask them, you know, are you a person of faith? What does that mean to you to be a person of faith? Let's work together in order to be able to help you using one of your resources because yes, having faith is a resource.

Having faith has gotten black folks through a lot when there was nothing else. And I talk about that to one of my newest books, you know, No Racial Elephants in the Therapy Room. I talked to a lot when there was nothing else. And I talk about that, so one of my newest books, No Racial Elephants in the Therapy Room, I talked specifically to therapists to be able to work with their clients and including their faith. I think the Potters House has done a fantastic job

of combining the two, Bishop TD Jakes, Sarah Jakes, Robbins, Torrey, they always talk about God, but then also you gotta bring in the mental health professionals when there's an actual mental health crisis is going on. Yes, because a lot of folks don't understand the psychological and the psychiatric part of it. We can't expect for pastors and ministers to do that.

That's not their training. For some of them it is, but for most it's not. You were talking about the language earlier, and that's a conversation we always have here on the show about how everybody has learned a lot of the language, whether it's depression, anxiety. Do you think that people are self-diagnosing too much or is that just how awareness starts?

I think it's good for awareness because some of the feedback that I've gotten about the book is folks saying they didn't know what was going on with them and so they appreciate having language to be able to communicate what's going on for them. So that's definitely a good thing. But I do think that there is a lot of self-diagnosis and it ends there. So if your diagnosis is, I have higher than what is helpful level of anxiety,

go see a professional. If it is, my depression keeps me from being able to cook meals for my family, I don't know what to do. Go see a professional who can help diagnose and give a roadmap for what needs to happen next. But yeah, the TikTok therapy is kind of concerning. The kids have, the kids is what scares me because the kid will say I'm depressed. And then if you ask the kid, well, what does depressed mean? I don't know.

He can't even tell you. I don't know, I'm just upset I failed the test and I'm depressed. No, you're not depressed, you know does depressed mean? I don't know. He can't even tell you. I don't know, I'm just upset, I failed the test and I'm depressed. No, you're not depressed, you know what I mean? But that's my only fear. I wanted to ask, we had a lot. I'm gonna stay on that for a second.

Isn't that a thing though? Because when we were young, we knew we were feeling something, we just didn't know what it was. We didn't even have the language to say I'm depressed. But you could be sad. Depressed is different than just being sad. Like it's different.

But doesn't certain, can't sadness lead to depression in a lot of kids? Well, constant sadness, right? Yeah. So if you're sad for several weeks. I'm about to turn to Dr. Rita Walker, yeah. If you're sad for two weeks or more, then you could be depressed.

I mean, there's certainly levels to depression. And that's why it's helpful to go to a licensed trained professional to be able to disentangle what might be happening. So yeah, if you fail the test, I want you to be sad. I'm sad for the day. I'm sad for a couple hours, but that doesn't mean depressed because tomorrow you're back outside playing soccer. Exactly. Exactly. And that's why. But those words are very dangerous, even anxiety. Like when I hear the kids say it, I'm like,

I just realized what anxiety was a couple of years ago. How you know what it is? Because TikTok told them. Because they're smarter than us. Well, that too, but. They're smart, but you know, so for those of us who are, you know, who are older, who can talk to young people, we can just ask, what does that mean for you?

What does that look like for you? Because even as a professional, if I'm seeing someone or a client for the first time, I'm asking them, because they come in, they watch TikTok, you know, they come in and they're saying, I'm depressed. And I still need to know what does your depression look like? Because your depression might be, you know,

not wanting to eat, maybe you feel really very sad and you don't wanna be around people. But your depression might be like, you're doing too much, because you're trying to compensate for the depression. And your depression might look like you're overeating. And everyone is experiencing depression. And so we have to be able to ask, not just for our clients, but for everyday people,

what does that look like for you? Because it also gives us a point of intervention. So if you're feeling more like you need to be isolated from folks, then okay, maybe I'll let you go be to yourself for a little while. And then I'll check in and say, okay, how are you doing today? We don't even have to talk about the situation that you're going through. I just want you to know I'm here for you. People need to know that someone is going to be there for them and that they're

not going to judge them. I think, I think basically you're just telling people don't self-diagnose. If you think there's something there, then go seek help from a professional. Yeah, please. Gotcha. Please. I wanted to ask too, what are some of the myths that our community still have with therapy? We had an artist, his name is Rob 49.

You heard of him? What the hell? Okay, don't worry about it. But he was saying basically that he feels like he needs therapy, but he doesn't necessarily want to go because he doesn't see himself talking to them people. You don't trust him. He doesn't trust them.

So what are some of the myths that you still see? Well, that's certainly one of them. They gonna tell all my business. And that's important. We, you know, you can't have folks, you can't have your business in the street. Like that's something that is unacceptable in our community. And so for that person,

and I encounter a lot of those folks who are struggling, you see it, you know, we see it, but if they're not ready, then you can't force them to go and talk to someone. That's one part. And I, there's so many folks, you know, and that's why we have to be non-judgmental because if we say, like, this is what I see,

just want you to know I'm concerned, and then back off, then they know who they can go and talk to. Like, this person expressed concern. They seem concerned about me. I will go to them. But yes, those big myths that are, those people are gonna tell on my business, that's one part.

The other part is, what can they tell me? They're not gonna be able to tell me. They don't even know me. But that's part of the process, is getting to know the client. There isn't a single person who would sit in front of me that I would say, I know their life story, I know how to help them.

I'm gonna start with questions. I got questions first. And then the other part is, something I think that is is they're gonna make me someone that I'm not. And I need to maintain myself. Like I don't know a professional who has the power to be able to magically make someone different.

The goal would be to make them a better functioning person, you know, to take on their responsibilities and do the best that they can, but not to make them a different person. I do have a question. What is a therapist allowed to talk about, right? So if I see a murder, if I murder somebody, if I see domestic violence, if I see somebody getting hurt, it always brings me back to the Mendez brothers, right? Where they were talking to the therapists

and the therapists use some of their stuff on the court case. So when you see stuff like that and something is going through my mind, I'm like, I ain't gonna tell nobody because what if they use it later? But then I might have to tell somebody to heal. So what can you guys tell and what is just patient- Crimes? Privilege. Yes, you gotta go to prison for us if you kill somebody. You can heal in prison.

Sorry. You can heal in prison. But I'm sure there's people that have seen crimes, have done crimes, and they're going through things like, I'll just use Rob 49 again. He said that he's seen so many things in his past. He's seen death so much in his past, but he might not wanna tell because he might

not wanna get somebody in trouble. Well, in that example, he can say, I've seen death. Take it out of Rob 49 just in case. Okay, so anyone can say they've seen something without giving facts or specifics and not expect for the police to come in and haul them off. But what I will say is, so we talk in the first session about confidentiality.

Confidentiality is part of the bedrock of what we do as licensed professionals. You can't just go out and yap about what people have been sharing or what they've disclosed in therapy. Now, the other thing that we emphasize is if someone says that they could be a harm to themselves or danger to themselves or to someone else, then that information might have to be disclosed

in order to be able to protect that person's life or to protect the life of someone else. If they are, if there's a danger of abuse of children, elderly or people who have disabilities or different abilities, then that would have to be disclosed. And to be honest, it varies by state, but that's kind of a minimum threshold to be aware of because at the end of the day.

I'm Andrea Gunning, host of the podcast, Betrayal. Police Lieutenant Joel Kern used his badge to fool everyone. Most of all, his wife, Caroline. He texted, I've ruined our lives. You're going to want to divorce me. Caroline's husband was living another life behind the scenes. He betrayed his oath to his family and to his community.

She said you left bruises, pulled her hair, that type of thing. No. How far would Joel go to cover up what he'd done? pulled their hair, that type of thing. No. How far would Joel go to cover up what he'd done? You're unable to keep track of all your lies, and quite frankly, I question how many other women may bring forward allegations in the future. This season of Betrayal investigates one officer's decades of deception. Lies that left those closest to him questioning everything they thought they knew.

Listen to Betrayal on the iHeart radio app, Apple podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Amy Robach and TJ Holmes here. Diddy's former protege, television personality, platinum selling artist, Denity King alum, Aubrey O'Day, joins us to provide a unique perspective on the trial that has captivated the attention of the nation. Aubrey O'Day joins us to provide a unique perspective on the trial that has captivated the attention of the nation. Aubrey O'Day is sitting next to us here. You are, as we sit here, right up the street from where the trial is taking

place. Some people saw that you were going to be in New York and they immediately started jumping to conclusions. So can you clear that up? First of all, are you here to testify in the Ddy Trial? Aubrey will offer her opinions and expertise based on her firsthand knowledge. From her days on Making the Band as she emerged as the breakout star, the truth of the situation would be opposite of the glitz and glamor.

It wasn't all bad, but I don't know that any of the good was real. I went through things there. Listen to Amy and TJ Presents, Aubrey O'Dayay covering the Diddy Trial on the iHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Made for This Mountain is a podcast that exists to empower listeners to rise above their struggles, break free from the chains of trauma, and silence the negative voices that have kept them small.

Through raw conversations, real stories, and actionable guidance, you can learn to face the mountain that is in front of you. You will never be able to change or grow through the thing that you refuse to identify. The thing that you refuse to say, hey, this is my mountain, this is the struggle, this is the thing that's in front of me. You can't make that mountain move without actually diving into it. May is Mental Health Awareness Month, a time to conquer the things that once felt impossible and step boldly into the best version of yourself to awaken the unstoppable strength that's

inside of us all. So tune into the podcast, focus on your emotional well-being, and climb your personal mountain. Because it's impossible for you to be the most authentic you. It's impossible for you to love you fully if all you're doing is living to please people. Your mountain is that. Listen to Made for This Mountain on the iHeartRadio app, Apple podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. She was a decorated veteran,

a Marine who saved her comrades, a hero. She was stoic, modest, tough, someone who inspired people. Everyone thought they knew her, until they didn't. I remember sitting on her couch and asking her, is this real? Is this real? Is this real? Is this real? I just couldn't wrap my head around what kind of person would do that to another person that was getting treatment, that was dying? This is a story all about trust and about a woman named Sarah Kavanaugh.

I've always been told I'm a really good listener, right? And I maximized that while I was lying. Listen to Deep Cover, The Truth About Sarah on the iHeartRadio app, Apple podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. The client has to be able to talk to their therapist because they aren't going to be able to get the healing and the help that they need if they can't get some stuff off of their chest. But then once they do that, then there has to be some understanding

about what's gonna happen next. You ever met somebody so toxic, like they made you a therapist and as you say, yeah, I can't help you. Isn't that nice? So there have been a couple of occasions, and so what I have done for the most part is supervise PhD students in training.

And there have been occasions, as an example, where the client was racist, or the client was doing harm to animals, and the therapist was having a really difficult time because of, I mean, that would be hard for, hopefully, anyone. And supervisors do approach this work differently, I will say that.

And that's one of the reasons you may get different stories and different narratives from different professionals because folks approach some of the work differently. But for me, you can't have a client who is disrespecting you or who is making you feel nauseous or uncomfortable on the inside and do your work. Like that's, you can't do that. And so we're human first.

Like, you know, therapists, professionals, we are human first, but we you know, therapists, professionals, we are human first. But we still also have a responsibility and obligation to be able to provide the best possible care. Absolutely. We got a good friend, a good friend of mine, his name is Humble the Poet, and he put out a book called Unanxious,

50 Simple Truths to Help Overthinkers Feel Less Stress and More Calm. And I wanna read just a quick little line from it because I wanna know what you think about it. He says, life doesn't begin after the obstacles, life is the obstacles, and we have to read just a quick little line from it because I want to know what you think about it. He says, life doesn't begin after the obstacles. Life is the obstacles. And we have to unlearn the idea that we need or would even want a life free of chaos, stress,

and anxiety. We grow from facing challenges and exploring our limits. And the book encourages people to face their stressors and triggers head on with research backedbacked techniques and journal prompts. And we had a discussion here on Breakfast Club because I'm like, if I know something triggers me, I feel the, I reserve the right to disconnect from it and set my boundary and not deal with that thing.

He feels like you should sit with the thing so the thing doesn't trigger you anymore. Well, I think you know how I feel about the word should. So I avoid it at all costs. And so if there is something in you that says, in this moment, I need to avoid this thing, I'm going to honor that. But I'm also going to ask you questions

about what is happening for you. What are you telling yourself? So I'm a cognitive behavioral therapist. And so for me, you me, thoughts connect with behaviors, connect with feelings. So it all starts with, yes, something happened, but what is your thought in response to the thing? So is your thought in that moment, I can't deal with this,

this is gonna hurt me, this is gonna harm me, I can't survive this, because it happens, it plays out automatically before folks recognize. And so we have to slow down the process. Okay, tell me the facts, tell me what happened. Tell me what your next thought was because most people don't have a sense of what was the next thought.

And as a therapist, I have to slow things way down to understand. However, in order for you to feel like I can deal with this, whatever the situation is, or I need to be able to deal with this in order to you to feel like I can deal with this, whatever the situation is, or I need to be able to deal with this in order to be successful in life, then we gotta figure out how to allow you to be able to do that.

Because yes, I think what I heard him saying was, people need to be able to adapt to new and novel situations and circumstances in order to grow, in order to feel like, okay, I got this. I can be successful in life. But I would pause, I'd hit the pause button. Something happens, person wants to avoid, and I'm like, okay, tell me what just happened.

Because again, I'm asking questions. I wanna know what's going on for you because I don't assume anything about anybody. See, I was like, when he was there, I was like, F that, adapt, right? And I explained to you, if I don't like you because you're a negative person, you're always putting me down,

and I just don't feel good energy around you, you don't affect me in any which way. So I can cut you off and say, you know what, I'm not answering your phone anymore. I don't work with you, I don't have to see you, and that should be my right to do that because my energy is more important than this friendship. I don't have to sit in it, I don't have to adapt.

I don't care if you like me or not, but that's how we should be. I think a lot of times we try to adapt to things and we try to make things right. And I think a lot of times it hurts more than help. Yeah, you know, and I, I, I respect that a hundred percent. And I can say that there have been maybe the middle ground, cause you never know. You just, you never know if someone says something to you or they bring you a certain kind of energy and maybe you do have some relationship with the person that you're willing to consider and preserve why not say to them you know when you do X Y & Z when you do that thing right there when you do this this is how I feel when that

happens maybe they didn't know you know maybe they thought they were doing a good thing and I think that's a that allows us to be more in community because y'all we we need more and more community. I hear what you're saying. I used to try that. And thickums over there show me something different, right? I used to do that too. Like you try to adapt to people.

You do things that sometimes you don't want to do because you feel like it's the right thing to do, right? And short thickums over there would be like, no, I'm not going to do it. Because that doesn't make me happy. It might make you happy for what you do, I work hard, but I wanna protect my peace. And I didn't understand it for a while, right? Because Short Thickums just wouldn't go.

He was like, I'm not doing it, you're not catching me. And I wouldn't get it. But then after a while, I understood. And I'm like, yeah, if this is gonna eff up my peace, if this is not gonna make me happy, I'm on a stage in my life where, you know what, eff it. And I agree with y'all things. That's a little pet nickname for me.

See how men can't even just say my name. He can't even say my name. He gotta give me a little cute nickname just to be vulnerable. Just to express himself. You know what I mean? That make you feel better? Yes.

Okay, thank you baby. Black mental health lord. Thank you my waffle colored negro. Thank you. It's my beige babe over there. That's such a beautiful moment. Yes. Dr. Walker, no. Look, so this is my question.

I don't know if maybe you can help me with this, right? She don't even know what the fuck you just said. That's the funny part. She's like, what was he saying? He was giving him the short thickums. The short thickums. Dr. Walker, uh-uh. That was a moment for him to get at short thickums.

Look, I need, so just last night, right, I could not go to sleep. I could not go to sleep. I have problems sleeping, and I noticed you said at the beginning of the interview, right, but my thing is I can't turn my mind off. That's the main thing. I don't know how to turn my brain off.

I'm thinking about things I could be doing rather than getting off. I'm thinking about things that I could be doing rather than getting sleep. I'm thinking about, damn, I forgot to do this today. It's not enough hours in a day. I, you know what I mean? Like I have like a whole schedule in my mind. I never get it done. I feel guilty when I'm just sitting around, right?

But you're not supposed to feel like that, right? Because also with the guy that they were just referring to, humble poet, he was also saying, we're not designed to take in as much that we take in now between like the social media, everything that we're fed, like even the algorithm, like I, cause I've been thinking about it since he said it. And it's like, yo, like first thing I do, I wake up,

you know, I will pray, but I don't pray till I get in the car, I check my phone. And then like, yo, like first thing I do, I wake up, you know, I will pray, but I don't pray till I get in the car. I check my phone. And then like even when I'm scrolling, there'll be a video, say it'll be comedy, then it'll be another one about church. And it'll be nothing about something else about Donald Trump. It'll be something about the gays, you know, they everywhere. And then I scroll up again, it'll be something else.

And then, you know, it's like, but I'm not getting a chance to process each and every video, right? So it's so much information that I'm downloading. It's like I'm not a robot. I supposed to be OK with silence for a while. You know, then I got a nine month old, then I'm a wife and then I got it so much. So when I'm laying down, I cannot silence my mind, my thoughts to go to sleep. Ever. You can't ever silence. Most of the time, not not ever,

because weed will help me do that. Just being honest with you, like I will hit a blunt and I will laugh and then I'll be out for a minute. But that's really the only thing that helps me get good rest, weed. So, you know, and I've heard you talk about your schedule, you know, and, you know, getting up, and I think you said like four in the morning, but then you go to bed late at night.

And so, you know, so there's so many different layers to this because, yes, you are doing a lot. But one of the things that I heard you say just now was even when you're kind of sitting, you feel like you're supposed to be doing something. And so you're kind of sitting, you feel like you're supposed to be doing something. And so you're also telling yourself, I'm supposed to be doing something other than resting. So that's, that's one thing for you to be mindful of. But then, you know, I think it's, especially in this day and age, it's easy to wake up or not to fall asleep because

your mind is, is racing. I was telling my husband that this morning I woke up at three o'clock and I started to think about this conversation. And then I was thinking, okay, I can say this, I'll say that, ooh, and ooh. And I was like, okay, stop. And I know better, right? I have the tools and the resources.

And I was like, quit it. And then that didn't work. And I said, okay, we're gonna do 10 more minutes. And then that didn't work. And I was like, okay, we have to start doing our progressive muscle relaxation in order to be able to calm down. So there are strategies.

Progressive muscle relaxation. So for me, it's when I close my eyes and I'm breathing deeply, and I tell myself that with each exhalation to release the tension, and I start with my forehead and eyebrows, because I'm literally sometimes like this in bed. Who is in bed?

Yeah. And so I have to tell myself to release. And I go every body part, ears, nose, and then I allow my body to be able to relax into the moment because I'm literally not just thinking, but I'm feeling it in my body. And I have to be able to relax that. The other thing that I recommend,

and I put this in the workbook, so I did the unapologetic guide and have the unapologetic workbook, is giving folks permission to before you go to bed, like some people need to keep a notepad and a pen, not the phone, but a notepad and a pen by the bed so that when all of these thoughts come to mind, you write them down. You write them down before you get into bed. Like everything that comes to mind, okay, write it down. And then, okay, try that.

If that, you know, you wake up, okay, write somewhere down. I didn't have a notepad last night. I was like, okay, we just gonna dug this out. But be able to write down all the things that come to your mind to release it because otherwise you're gonna ruminate about it. And that rumination will absolutely keep you up for hours. Hours. Yeah.

Now I learned a lot of those techniques from you and it's funny because, you know, my three-year-old would look at me and say, she'd say, daddy, why you doing like this? And I don't even realize I'm doing it. And then when she tells me that, that's when I do those, I try to do that technique to just relax. But another thing I want you to talk to Jess about, when you go to your website, it says reclaim your mind. What does that statement mean to you? claim your mind. What does that statement mean to you? We are a very, very powerful people and this is what I'm hoping that we eventually get to, you know, maybe not in the next five years or even ten years but for the next generation, that we get

back to knowing who we are as black people, as people of African descent. You know, there's so much negativity associated with folks like I don't wanna be African. You know, some folks now say I just wanna be American. But the brilliance, the collective brilliance in our community is there, but it is weighed down by anxiety and depression. And for those who don't know,

we talk a lot about anxiety and depression because those are the two most commonly diagnosed challenges. When we are way down with that and sometimes it comes from racism, microaggressions out of nowhere, you know you're at your job just trying to mind your business working on a project and somebody says oh how'd you get that job and you're like what do you mean by that and you're ruminating about that. Like we just get weighed down by so much stuff that when we can get back to a place when we recognize that we are a brilliant people, that when we can come together,

maybe sometimes kneel together if need be, when we can come together, then we can reclaim who we are and we can use our immense talents and gifts that we have, then we can use them and then we will live collectively much more fulfilling lives. Like we weren't meant to exist as individuals. Like that's a Eurocentric way of seeing the world.

We are African people. You know, we don't have brother and, you know, we don't have cousin and distant cousin and in-laws, you know, we have brother and sister. Like we are family. And so we need to get back to that in order to kinda resist the stuff that's happening out there.

I got a couple more questions because you talked about psychological fortitude earlier, which is a concept you introduced in the book, and to clear up confusion around mental health, you talk about psychological fortitude. Can you break down what that is, just for people and why that's a game changer? Absolutely, because just think on a day-to-day basis,

you ask somebody how they're doing, and they say, I'm good, I'm good. They may or may not mean it, but that's the answer that they give because oftentimes, you know, we think people don't want to know, maybe we don't know how well we're doing. But psychological fortitude is the zero to 10 rating of a few different things. It's basically your capacity to function. So take care of your work responsibilities and or school responsibilities, because this

can apply to children and teens also. To be able to take care of your family. Maybe you got the in-laws at the house, you got other cousins, you got folks at the house. To be able to take care of your physical health. You know, health, health is a serious concern in our community for a number of different reasons. We gotta be able to exercise and eat right

and do all the things while not sleeping. You wanna bag a chip sometimes when you can't sleep and you're stressed out. I love dessert. You know, and then we also need to be able to withstand the threats, like the things that are coming after us while we're still trying to tap into our gifts and talents.

You know, in some communities, not using your gifts and talents is a sin, but for us it's kind of like, you know, you're just going through the motions and hoping for the best. So if I say, you know, I say envy, you know, zero to 10, you don't have to tell us, but you could if you like. You know, and a zero to 10, you know, you're just going through the motions and hoping for the best. So if I say, you know, I say, Envy, you know, zero to 10, you don't have to tell us, but you could if you like. You know, and zero to 10, you know, zero mean

you have nothing in the tank and 10 is you cooking. You know, where would you say you are on your capacity to be able to do all those things? All right now, nine. You're at a nine. And so you're at a great place. And so I might say, okay, you know, Envy's good, you know, we're gonna keep it moving.

But if he said like four or lower, then that says to me as someone in his community that I need to just check in and say, hey, you know, you're at a four earlier. But that's today. Tomorrow it could be a two. Tomorrow it could be a two, right. And if you stayed at a two for weeks,

then we know it's a problem. But we have our two moments because we're human. And then also for me, for weeks, then we know it's a problem. But we have our two moments, because we're human. And then also, for me, for myself, if I ask myself my own rating, and if it's too low, then I know that I probably need to be working on a boundary, like I definitely don't need to be taking on anything else. I don't care who it is, I don't care what they ask,

I cannot take on a single thing. If I'm at a six, for me personally, if I'm at a six or lower, I'm not doing anything else. I appreciate you, I can't today. Check in with me in three to four or five months. And or I need to add some sources of joy. Maybe reach out to someone that I haven't talked to in a while who makes me smile,

who I know isn't gonna judge me. And I do have friends and folks who reach out to me and just say like, hey, what's your PF? So PF for psychological fortitude. What's your PF right now? And depending on where I am, I don't think about it for too long because we can think we wanna get the right answer.

I don't know what they're gonna say. Just give a number. Like a number is so much more neutral than saying I'm good when I'm not or risking saying maybe someone else isn't ready for what all I might be going through. I get a number, that tells you a lot. Absolutely.

My last question is, you know, I love the Unapologetic Guide to Black Mental Health. I swear by it. I think it's more than a book. It's a call to action. So what would progress look like in another five years from now if everybody really embraced the call to action

that's in this book. Wow, I love that question. So in another five years, we would have stronger communities where we're able to ask someone, what's your PF right now? And if they say something that is a four or five, then you say, hey, do you have time right now?

Let's check in, let's sit down. Or if they say something like a two or three, then someone in the community says, let me help you find a professional who can work with you. That it helps to build our communities. And that we have folks who are suffering less. Because you know, there are a lot of people who are suffering needlessly.

Because they don't know whether or not this is mental health related, or am I going crazy. Like we have legitimate language and understanding about what our psychological fortitude is and I introduced that in part because and I think I mentioned this because when we hear mental health we think something else. We need to get beyond that like we really need to get beyond this person is crazy, this person is having a nervous breakdown, like that doesn't matter, we need to be able to function. But there are people who for sure have serious challenges and are hearing things that aren't

there and they do need to be able to connect with someone who's going to get them some medication. But I want us to normalize these conversations, get folks the help that they need so that everyone can contribute to a better functioning society. All right, absolutely. Well Dr. Rita Walker, we appreciate you for joining us. Thank you. If you haven't got the book, pick up the book now. It's the 50th anniversary of the release of The Unapologetic Guide to Black Mental Health. And the workbook. The workbook that goes with it, The Unapologetic Guide to Black Mental Health. I tell everybody it is a must read. It's one of

them books that you have to have in your household. This is the book that we all needed growing up. Our parents didn't know how to talk to us about it, our adults around us didn't know how to talk to us about mental health. This book right here lays it down quite flat. Yeah. Thank you so much.

Can I just add just two brief things? One, thank you so much to you because there have been a lot of people who said they got the book because of you, didn't know anything about it. So I am beyond grateful to you, Lennard, for getting the word out about the book. And also, folks can follow me.

I'm most active on Instagram, drredowalker.com. Maybe I can get 500 more followers to get me to 20,000 for my birthday. It's my birthday. When's your birthday? It's Saturday. Oh, Saturday. Yes.

Go follow Dr. Reda Walker. All right. Happy birthday. Do you turn up, Dr. Walker? You turn up? Okay, all right. Happy birthday, world. Yay! It's Dr. Rita Walker, it's The Breakfast Club.

Good morning. Wake that ass up. Early in the morning. The Breakfast Club. I'm Andrea Gunning, host of the podcast, Betrayal. Police Lieutenant Joel Kern used his badge to fool everyone. Most of all, his wife, Caroline. He texted, I've ruined our lives.

You're going to want to divorce me. How far would he go to cover up what he'd done? The fact that you lied is absolutely horrific. And quite frankly, I question how many other women are out there that may bring forward allegations in the future. Listen to Betrayal on the iHeartRadio app, Apple podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Amy Robach and TJ Holmes here. Diddy's former protege, television personality, Danity King alum Aubrey O'Day joins us to provide

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The Made for This Mountain podcast exists to empower listeners to rise above their inner struggles and face the mountain in front of them. So during Mental Health Awareness Month, tune into the podcast, focus on your emotional well-being, and then climb that mountain. You will never be able to change or grow through the thing that you refuse to identify, the thing that you refuse to say, hey, this is my mountain. This is the struggle. Listen to Made for This Mountain on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your

podcasts. Have you ever thought about going voiceover? I'm Hope Woodard, a comedian, creator, and seeker of male validation. I'm also the girl behind voiceover, the movement that exploded in 2024. You might hear that term and think it's about celibacy, but to me, voiceover is about understanding yourself outside of sex and relationships. It's flexible, it's customizable, and it's a personal process. Singleness is not a waiting room.

You are actually at the party right now. Let me hear it. Listen to VoiceOver on the iHeartRadio app, Apple podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. This is an iHeart podcast.