The Breakfast Club - INTERVIEW: Dr. Tonya Matthews Talks Women's History Month, Maya Angelou, International African American Museum

Episode Date: March 4, 2024

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Hey guys, I'm Kate Max. You might know me from my popular online series, The Running Interview Show, where I run with celebrities, athletes, entrepreneurs, and more. After those runs, the conversations keep going. That's what my podcast, Post Run High, is all about. It's a chance to sit down with my guests and dive even deeper into their stories, their journeys, and the thoughts that arise once we've hit the pavement together. Listen to Post Run High on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. to join us each week for our show, Civic Cipher. That's right. We discuss social issues, especially those that affect black and brown

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on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcast, or wherever you get your podcasts. Wake that ass up early in the morning. The Breakfast Club. Yep, it's the world's most dangerous morning show, The Breakfast Club. Charlamagne Tha God, Jess Hilarious. Envy's not here today, but we have the CEO and president of the International African American Museum in Charleston, South Carolina. Dr. Tanya Matthews is here.

Good morning, Dr. T. Good morning, Charla. Good morning, Dr. T. Good morning, Sharla. Good morning, Jess. How y'all doing this morning? Good. Bless black and highly favored. That's right. That's the only way to be. I am well. I am very, very well. How has it been being a black woman

in leadership of an international African-American museum in Charleston? So we just coming in hot. Is that how it's going to happen? Let's go ahead and intersect. You know, it has been good. I mean, you know, it has its tensions because I would say one

thing that the brothers and sisters are happy to see me. And also surprised. You know, I'm a D.C. native. I also spent some time in Detroit. You know, stuff gets a little regular. You know, we're used to seeing us and then it's about how we represent. But, you know, truthfully, being down in Charleston, being in South Carolina, we are fewer and farther between. So so most folks are proud and they are they are excited.

And folks in the low country can pray. So I got a whole line of prayer warriors trying to keep it together. But then, you know, there are the tensions. Some folks see the unusual and embrace it. Some folks don't. And so there there is that balancing that you that you do maintaining. You got to have a serious sense of self. You do have to have a serious sense of self. You do have to have a serious sense of self. Everyone who's in leadership has to be able to do some self critique, right?

That's just what happens, right? And you have to be able to take feedback and listen. But if you are in an environment that does not fully and constantly welcome you, you have to have some, shall we say, discernment along with that critique, right? You have to know which of the criticisms are coming at you to lift you up and which ones are coming at you to break you down.

That's back on the prayer warriors probably. And there are some people that you really trust. You have some people in your life that can call you out. You know they love you. You also know they kind of wise. And so you can you can take that under advisement. I have a few of those folks in my life. And so I know when they say something, it's real. And then sometimes I will I will bring things to them.

They're like, OK, there's some feedback I got. What do you think about this? It's tough. It's tough. And there are some moments where you just decide we're just going to have to brush our shoulders off on that one and keep it moving. There's a conversation about black women in leadership in this country that I don't think we're having because when you talk to the sisters, they say there's challenges. No, they be trying to take y'all out. When I think about Claudine Gay, when I think about what's happening to Fannie Willis,

when I think about Marilyn Mosby, when I think about the VP Kamala Harris, they be trying to take y'all out. Yeah, yeah, that is true. And I would say, you know, it's so funny, we do need sometimes other folks to say that, right? Because you're right, when you are in those positions, we say, yes, we have challenges. There are learning curves. You know, we have all of these phrases because the truth of the matter is we have a job to do. Right. And hear, hear what we're saying and those who can't hear, don't hear what we're saying. Right. And so, you know, it's very interesting watching the conversations around, you know, Dr. Gray, Dr. Claudine Gray.

And I think what folks missed is that her situation wasn't unique. It was high profile. There's a very there's a very, very difference there there were so many you know commonalities that i had seen in other conversations with other sisters and maybe you know they're they're the head of hr or the chief general counsel of some giant company and those aren't the folks who get on the news right those aren't the names that you would know but but the battle was the same. The kind of of attacks, the way things are being interpreted were very similar. And so I would say probably one of the most discouraging things about that to me is that I could recognize what was happening, which meant that in many ways it was it was familiar. but then again I will also say that sometimes there are roles and positions you take where you understand that weathering

the storm is part of the work and if you aren't in the storm you're probably not in the right position so you know it's an interesting balancing act yoga and prayer one more time y'all stay with me yoga and prayer yoga and prayer I'm trying another thingall stay with me yoga and prayer yoga and prayer I'm trying to know

because I'm with child so I'm trying yoga now I've been with the prayer been with prayer my mother is my prayer warrior um among many others yeah but yes I'm trying yoga now I'm trying it you know as I gaze off I'm really trying it and I well I think being a mother also helps because sometimes being in protection mode when you're protecting others there's a different kind of strength in that right like sometimes it's easier to stand in the gap for others than it is to stand in the gap for yourself so so i find that motherhood fatherhood parenthood whatever hood uh you talking about that that also uh helps in that space but who's protecting the mothers that's

what that's that's what i always charlamagne you i mean so it is that is a really that that is a really good good question um and i think that um if i can give some grace uh to those that i would like to see protect the mothers a little bit more. I think one of the challenge, particularly with black mothers, maybe all mothers, is that we don't always call for help. Right. You know, we know that black women have this thing. We're going to take a lick. We're going to keep on moving because dinner is at six. Yeah. Like, this is how this this this works. I got issues. I got challenges. But baby got to go to school. Let's make it happen. And so i think that that kind of thing where we do and we do and we do until we can't do anymore doesn't really give um a lot of

room for those who want to help us and who would help us enough notice you know we're black women by the time you find out we need some help we we own the flow yeah you know we we find in all the records so so mama you knew you knew this was an issue and so i i think part of it is indeed the environment around us but also part of it is um knowing when to to pause to to acknowledge also to ask uh for some help uh and some support which is not always our strong suit. Jess, you know you don't like to ask for no help. No, not all the time. No, not all the time.

And then, you know, that comes with experience too. Like, you know, and that creates experience, you know, so I can be able to tell, you know, a story. You know what I'm saying? And not,

that's what I do it for, but I like to go through some things, you know what I'm saying, for not not that's what I do it for but I like to go through some things you know what I'm saying for myself as opposed to just hearing you know the ones before me that they went through it's like maybe it could be different for me or maybe you know I can gain something different from it you know and then teach others and stuff like that so yeah he's right he's right I'm very resilient though I'm very resilient, though. I'm very resilient and I can be stubborn, but I come from my mother, too. Right. You know what I'm saying? So it speaks volumes to what you're saying. It's a result of that. But for the people who don't know, why do you think it's so important for us to tell our own stories?

So I think it's it's really important to tell our own stories because, one, they belong to us. Right. I have this thing about stories. There are stewards of stories and there are owners of stories. We want everyone to tell our story. That means you're a steward. If I give you my story, I want you to share it. Particularly when we talk about, say, African American

history, I don't need just black folks telling black folks' story. We want everyone to tell the story and that makes you a steward. But then if you're the owner of the story, right, you have some special responsibility, but you also got some special love for your own story. I mean, only you can tell it with that level of emotion, that level of flavor. And the other thing is one of the things that I do like about modern conversations is I often hear the phrase, do not argue with lived experience. Right. And so when folks are at least willing to say that, that means that you as the owner of the story are the authority on that story. And you can step into that space of this is my lived experience. And folks may want to dismiss the bigger picture,

but they can't dismiss that particular story that you are speaking to because it does belong to you. And so I think that's one major reason. But the other major reason is there is power in, frankly, in talking about yourself. Now, some folk talk about themselves a little too much. OK, that's not what I'm talking about. That's not what I'm talking about. But to be able to decide that your own story deserves space.

Right. You know, headspace, heartspace, all that kind of stuff. And so you were going to speak up and you are going to talk about and tell your story. I think that's important for everyone. But real talk, you know, black folks were often told the opposite. Right. That our story didn't need space, that it didn't deserve space. And we weren't allowed to talk about these experiences. And then we have to use softer words when we're talking about these experiences as if telling my story automatically meant I was blaming someone. Sometimes it does. Sometimes it doesn't. But either way, it's it's the lived experience. And so I think for Black folks, some of the anger, some of the self-loathing, some of the challenges that we have are really about having to hold the story in and what it takes to do that. You have to diminish self to hold the story in. You have to reorient

yourself to be constantly surrounded by everyone else's story. And I think it's something that we see often when folks come to the museum, particularly when Black folks come to the museum. It feels like a bit of an exhale. Like, oh, that's me on the wall.

A real pretty wall, because we look good. Y'all need to come on down. We look good. We look good down at the museum. So it's a beautiful space. And I watch folks walk into the room. And one of the things they seem to be surprised by is to have our stories, obviously referencing Black folks, our stories told in such a magnificent and expansive way. Right. We're a big museum and we're a modern museum and you can see elements of designs. You know, we've gotten rewards and awards for our architecture and that kind of thing. But to see, you know, our stories in that kind of space is still unique.

And so sometimes people walk in and I can almost like literally feel the exhale as they see the story in that way. How has business been since opening last summer? So we have we have passed our 100,000th visitor. Yes. Yes. For us, it's been less than seven months and we hit that number. So that has been amazing. You know, the number one complaint we get is that folk can't get a ticket. I'm like,

well, you know, there is a website you can pre-register for your ticket. You wouldn't have to worry about that. So, so that has been really good. I'm also excited that, you know,

we're still getting interest from, you know, media and that kind of thing. And they're asking other questions, right? One, when you build something new, everybody wants to talk about you building a new thing.

So I'm excited that folks are still asking questions. The Genealogy Center, our Center for Family History remains very, very popular. Folks' eyes get real big when we talk about that. So a lot of those classes are also hybrid. So we're now now that it's been a little over six months, we are getting visitors who have taken one of our virtual classes. And now they're really excited to be in the actual Center for Family History right now. They got follow up questions. So that has actually been very cool, too. And this is our first semester of formally supporting school groups. Obviously, school groups could always come, but we had to get, you know, the program and the special tours in place.

And so that that is is starting. And there's there's a lot there's a lot of life, you know, that comes into the building, you know, with with eighth graders in that space. But I would also say it's a little interesting because, say, particularly for urban school districts, African-American students and that kind of thing, there's always this interesting tension around how to discipline, shall we say, you know, 30 excited young, young folks. But, you know, we really are a cultural, we're a culturally black space. Yeah. So it's a little different. It's a little different. I have volunteers that will pull your child up. I have, listen, listen, we got grandmothers

on duty and they will just give you that look and the baby's like, okay. So, which is actually really good. And it's done with love, but it is really done. And also they come in and they look, they see us. Oh, I see auntie. Okay, let me. Right. So so that has actually been been really cool. What was some of the criticisms you had to overcome when you first opened the museum?

Yeah. So it was interesting. You know, there were, I would say, pre concerns. Right. Which I'm also happy to say were, frankly, invalidated, if you ask me. So one, for example, on the black folk side, black folks were were wondering, were curious, were critical of whether or not we'd be able to tell the truth. Literally, that was like, y'all gonna tell the truth up in there? Because and real talk, you know, this is this is the South. This is the deep South. The South Carolina is low country. I would say, you know, telling the truth about black history is not exactly the brand sort of in that space. And there were some concerns that that we wouldn't want to do it. Right. And I think we got over that. And then there were concerns that we simply wouldn't be able to do it. It got in the bless your heart category. Y'all really think y'all gonna pull this off?

Bless your heart. And, but, you know, I actually took that to heart. I understood that folks are trying to tell me that this was going to be hard to do this. But, you know, they've come in, they've seen the stories, they've seen some stories that they know, you know, because so much happened in South Carolina, even though we're a national museum, we have plenty of South Carolina stories. And all of these things are not that far back.

So we have people who have lived some of the stories we're telling. So they will come in. They'll be very excited, like pointing at stuff. I've literally heard phrases like, I've seen that picture of her in 30, 40 years. Word? Can I get you into the story booth so we can get the rest of the story? I've literally heard phrases like, I seen that picture of her in 30, 40 years. Word. Can I get you into the story booth so we can get the rest of the story? So, so that was on that. And then non-black folks,

their biggest concern was, you know, are you going to yell at me? You know, you know, that was, that was the big one. It was,

are you going to yell at me? But the interesting part is that some folks who were, who were ready, they were like, I get it. You know, I've heard I've read snippets. I'm ready. Which part am I going to get yelled at? Like they were basically asking, all right, I'm ready. And I'm like, whew, yelling at you would not be good for business. That is not what we are trying to do here, sort of in this space. But the other thing it is because it's Black folks telling Black folks stories from a Black perspective.

That's why there's no yelling. It's not, say, an intentionally trying to be nice is that this conversation is actually about us. You have the opportunity to be a fly on the wall. Hear all the stories

that we may have told at the dinner table that you never got to hear or about books we've read or experiences and that kind of thing. I'm always surprised when folks are just finding out about some things that I've always known. Right. And these everyday folks, I have a really, really, really good girlfriend, white sister. She was my ride or die when I was hanging out there in Detroit. And one day she says, I said, something, something,

something, we're going to open up like we always do with the Black National Anthem. And I had seen her at events. She would go with me to all these events. She knew the words. Right? So she was singing. And she said, well, what's the Black National Anthem? I said, you know, that's that song, the lift every voice and sing. And she literally said,

oh, I thought that was just the song that black folks like to sing every time they open up an event right so because that isn't part of the language in the history folks will say you know i i just found out about the tuskegee experiment word oh okay that that explains so many of our previous conversations sort of in terms of those things and so it's an incredible opportunity. And so folks are not getting yelled at. They're very surprised that they're not getting yelled at,

but they're buying all the books instead. So I think those are the kinds of things. And then, you know, we did get some interesting comments that were more subtle. If anyone has also read Lonnie Bunch's book, A Fool's Errand, when he talks about the building of the African-American History Museum at the Smithsonian, you get so like subtle, subtle things like, you know, well, how much did that cost again? Which is a good question. And it makes sense. We want to be financially responsible, but you can tell when it's asked in certain environments versus others, right?

Which is really the question is, is it worth that much? Should we actually be spending that much on that? And so the energy of those, those kinds of questions come off quite a bit. I do have some neighbors that are still concerned about the boom, boom music. That might be coming out.

So, you know, so we, we, we do, we do turn down the breakfast club when we're playing that, when we're setting up in the morning, but you know,

so you will get, I think those, those kinds of, of, of comments and, and conversations there. But, you know, so you will get, I think, those those kinds of of of comments and conversations there. But I would say, you know, on paper and most loudly, we've been very well received. But I would also acknowledge that there is always a bit of a honeymoon period, especially when when folks are paying attention. And so we're soaking up all the good vibes, and we will use them as a fuel to move forward through whatever the next phase is. How do you feel about places like Florida?

You know, they're making it illegal for kids to learn about our history. Yeah, all right. Let me channel my inner Michelle. Let me channel my inner michelle let me let me channel my inner michelle and go high on this one okay okay okay on a scale of one harriet tubman how black do i gotta be right now exactly exactly exactly um so so here's the thing about this you know we're doing a lot of talk around diversity and inclusion. They do all the studies. Businesses do better.

Schools do better. Kids do better. Everything does better when we're doing sort of diversity and inclusion. I'm so curious as to why it has still not occurred to anyone that perhaps America's superpower is our diversity. That being the most diverse nation on the planet is why we managed to be and stay number one, despite all the challenges we have. You know, if you if you measure the school systems one to one, America's you know, we don't necessarily win on that. When you compare things like, oh, I don't know, access to health care, one to one, we're not ahead on that. Like all of these individual measures, you know, we're never quite at the top yet.

And still, we are one of the most powerful, not the most powerful nation on the planet, the most creative, the most innovative. We're always sort of leading in these spaces. And I believe it's because we have this level of diversity, this this wrangling. We are not monolithic in that space. And so whenever you have anything that challenges our superpower. Right. So frankly, I think this sort of anti diversity, anti teaching the the culling of history, I think it's the kryptonite to our superpower. And so I don't understand and I don't envision, say, places like like a Florida with what they're doing. I don't think that you can disenfranchise half of your population and still be. Hey, guys, I'm Kate Max. You might know me from my popular online series, The Running Interview Show, where I run with celebrities, athletes, entrepreneurs and more.

After those runs, the conversations keep going. That's what my podcast, Post Run High, is all about. It's a chance to sit down with my guests and dive even deeper into their stories, their journeys, and the thoughts that arise once we've hit the pavement together. You know that rush of endorphins you feel after a great workout?

Well, that's when the real magic happens. So if you love hearing real, inspiring stories from the people you know, follow, and admire, join me every week for Post Run High. It's where we take the conversation beyond the run and get into the heart of it all. It's lighthearted, pretty crazy, and very fun. Listen to Post Run High on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Hey there, my little creeps. It's your favorite ghost host, Teresa.

And guess what? Haunting is back, dropping just in time for spooky season. Now I know you've probably been wandering the mortal plane, wondering when I'd be back to fill your ears with deliciously unsettling stories. Well, wonder no more, because we've got a ghoulishly good lineup ready for you. Let's just say things get a bit extra. We're talking spirits, demons, and the kind of supernatural chaos that'll make your spooky season complete. You know how much I love this time of year.

It's the one time I'm actually on trend. So grab your pumpkin spice, dust off that Ouija board, just don't call me unless it's urgent, and tune in for new episodes every week. Remember, the veils are thin, the stories are spooky, and your favorite ghost host is back and badder than ever. Listen to Haunting on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. So y'all, this is Questlove and I'm here to tell you about a new podcast I've been working on with the Story Pirates and John Glickman called Historical Records. It's a family-friendly podcast. Yeah,

you heard that right. A podcast for all ages. One you can listen to and enjoy with your kids starting on September 27th. I'm going to toss it over to the host of Historical Records, Nimany, to tell you all about it. Make sure you check it out. Hey, y'all. Nimany here. I'm the host of a brand new history podcast for kids and families called Historical Records. Historical Records brings history to life through hip hop. Each episode is about a different inspiring figure from history. Like this one about Claudette Colvin, a 15-year-old girl in Alabama who refused to give up her seat on the city bus nine whole months before Rosa Parks did the same thing. Check it. No, I wouldn't give up my seat. Nine months before Rosa, it was called a woman.

Get the kids in your life excited about history by tuning in to Historical Records. Because in order to make history, you have to make some noise. Listen to Historical Records on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Economically viable, right? I don't see how you can not leave a whole lot of money on the table when you got half your genius locked behind the door. And this is not just about limiting black folk. You are also limiting everybody else when they do not have the opportunity to learn

one of the greatest human resiliency stories of all time. Listen, black folks are mythical, right? Just with all the ways we sort of tell these stories. So when you take those stories, when you take those lessons out of the history and the learning, we are all weaker, right? You know, black folks, we're the ones raging against it, because this really challenges our ability to identify ourselves. But at the end of the day, everyone pays for this. And so I just, I don't think it's a wise move. But I would also say that at the end of the day, our elected officials are elected because we elected them. Right. And so I have a low tolerance on these kind of conversations. I always respond with, well, did you vote? That's my first part of the question. And I know and da da da da and stealing a vote and calling the vote and change.

OK, OK, OK. You can't complain about that to me until you you vote. Right. And I was just listening one one day and the brother was like listen I'm not sure whether it works or not but I know that the cost for the opportunity is way too high so I'm gonna go ahead and I said that's a really good way of of looking at that and so while I do uh hold our leaders accountable because I am a leader and I know what those responsibilities are. I also hold the folks who have the power, a little chunk of the power as well. Right. Because, frankly, if we, I don't know, you know, stop supporting this or that, it is about money. And so a lot of these conversations go where the money is. And so I would say now Charleston has an international African-American museum.

We also have beaches. So if you're looking for an alternative, right, if you're looking for something else to do, you can you can come down for for that way. But I don't think it's it's wise. And I do think it's it's very, very dangerous. And I think that this trying to tamp down a significant portion of the American identity is why we are all so shook, even if we can't quite articulate it. When you look at where we are now in this country, what can the International African-American Museum teach us about overcoming a lot of these challenges we're facing? Yeah. So, you know, it's interesting where we are now. I like to use the analogy of a rubber band. Right. If you're trying to break a rubber band, you've got to stretch it until it breaks. Otherwise, it'll just snap back. And I think what you will learn sort of in our museum and museums like this is that we have been here before.

Right. Lessons that you do not fully learn you are doomed to repeat you know history is a is a gracious teacher and you can redo the test as many times as you need to until you get all the answers correct and so when you learn about periods such as for example reconstruction right that is the period in our history that most reminds me of what's happening right now which is there is this moment of great hope, great strides, African-American elected officials just popping up out of whatever. Slavery is apparently over. We're going to move forward.

The slapback was ridiculous, right? This is where we come into the Jim Crow. This is where we get into what we call the nadir, right? It got really, really bad when we saw the nation allowing the African-American community to make this level of progress, right? And so as we're looking at this now, I remember very recently, there was a period of hope. Black folks getting elected to stuff they weren't supposed to get elected to. President Obama. We were moving. We move forward. We're having all of these conversations. And so here comes the slapback. Right. In terms of that, we have to stretch these these concepts and nothing is ever won and done. Right. It's like going to the gym. right? Ladies, y'all with me, big day coming up.

Whatever that dress is, you got to fit in this dress. We in there working it out for 45 days. Boom! We getting the dress done. If you never went to the gym again, guess what? You not getting back in that dress. You not getting back in the dress. And so it works

the same way. And so, you know, I think we make these strides, we make these moves. And then we're like, great, boom, that battle is done. Let's move on to the next battle. But it all requires constant nourishment, at least for a generation or two, sort of in that in that space. So I think, one, the lessons that we can learn is that this is not entirely new. Right. Two, the thing we learn is that you must keep keeping it on. And three, sometimes have changed a bit.

So let's let's level up a little bit on some of our strategies and the things that we can do, because the truth of the matter is that with all this that is going on, black folks and those who ally and accomplish with us are farther along. And we do have more power and we do have more options than we did, which means we have additional tactics and things that we can do and things that we can we can use. So one, it should be somewhat encouraging. We're not the first to have to go through this. But two, it should be very encouraging because we don't just talk about the struggles in the museum. We also talk about the progress.

Learn about the progress. Do something with that progress. Think about our platforms differently. Hopefully, it's a little encouraging. Hopefully, it's really encouraging what are you looking at oh because he's starting me out of nowhere

if you start because he always say giving you some space yeah because no he'd be starting me because he'd be like when i get too quiet that means i'm tired i'm pregnant just make sure she's still with us. I am with us. Speaking of being pregnant. Okay. So it is women's history month. It is women's history month. And earlier,

it's the first day for it. And earlier I spoke about my mom. I wanted to honor her, you know, but like, what are some other ways that we can honor, you know, the women,

not even only our moms and women in our lives, but just honor women period. Yeah. Women's history. You know, know i i am honestly still a sucker for for being referred to as you know being part of the lineage right you know you know i i love it when folks be like i see you sister you magical just like the rest of them like like those kinds of things i mean it's nice you know when folks you know compliment us as individuals but i think it's nice, you know, when folks, you know, compliment us as individuals, but I think it's also nice to be in that category of strong black woman. Don't abuse it, right? Don't, don't overdo it, like make us do everything. But there is something,

something to that. Just phrases like, I see you sis. Yeah. It's so powerful. Like you don't even, we don't even know what you're talking about. We talk, oh, I feel seen today. Okay, okay. Just recognition. So that, I think, is good. And I think to also do a 360, right? You know, we honor our mothers. We honor our grandmothers.

But let's make sure the nieces and the daughters and the younger cousins feel a little love, too. Right? You know, so building that up now. And it's really interesting. I finally, I think I've come to the age where I can see how much it makes a difference. You just see their eyes light up. Yeah. Like, you see me?

And so that I think is in the lovey-dovey kind of generic stuff. But I would also say for those of us in the work, you know, some real deal tactical stuff. I remember being in meetings where, you know, your classic power play shenanigans, you know, were sort of happening. Some about race, some about gender, all this kind of stuff. And I saw one sister take one comment, like, really to heart. Like, I saw it. take one comment, like really to heart. Like, like I saw it, this was back in COVID times. It was like zoom days, you know, we could like private chat to folk. Um, and you know, I sent her a quick note. I was like, uh, honey, we all heard him say it, brush your shoulders, level up. I see you keep it moving. And you know, she,

she's like, you saw that you heard that you see me. I was like, of course I see you. I got you. We're here. I feel it, too. But we will discuss after the meeting. And it it it meant the world to to her in those spaces. So I would also say that when as we are out there moving and shaking, like when when you see things happening, you know how we do that wink, that nod, that little look that we can always cross the room. I remember asking my mother once because there was sister and I, and we were sort of scheming behind it with some business stuff going on. And I said, mommy, I said, they're going to know that we're talking to each other. We're not supposed to talk to each other because we're supposed to be on different sides, right? We're supposed to be on different sides of this conversation. And my mother said to me, she said, I cannot explain to you why, but for some reason, they

never figure out that the black women are talking to each other. I was like, oh, I was like, really? Because it's just the two of us. Like what? She said, I trust. I don't know. And so which is which is wonderful that we can still have that language, you know, in those in those spaces and I I know that there are some folks who are

concerned that if they align in the wrong way right that the that the pushback will come to them too because I was afraid I was like we gonna get in trouble you know sort of in that space one it's trouble that's worth getting into so buckle up like right good job like so buckle up but two i think that one of the the the challenges of the myth is that we don't work together and that we don't align and so folks don't don't easily see it when it's when it's happening so i say that that is is another way and then you know on a practical tip i I don't know, everybody once a week, look up a woman's story that you've never heard of. I don't know. Find a famous, find a famous sister and look it up and then take her story as her story. It is not a challenge to your story. Just because you haven't done X, Y, Z, or just because I would like to talk about ABC

does not mean I'm telling you that you have not done enough. Brothers, it does not mean that I don't love you. It just means that it's my month. OK. All right. Just like we did for February is March. Like it's my month in that in that space. And I also like to think of these months as this is women's history kickoff month.

Right. But this is how you kick it off for the rest of the year. So feel free to share a powerful woman's story in July. It's okay. Listen, you will be all right. I've got a couple more questions. Who's the woman's story that

inspired you? I think it would be the other half of my life life uh and my brain and that's going to be um uh nikki giovanni and maya angelo um a couple folks know that the other half of my life is is as a poet is as a poet and you know when i was coming up and I was I was young and I was doing my thing every once in a while sort of a an elder or older person would come to me like you know who you remind me of Nikki Giovanni and I knew the name and it was just it was just such it was just such a thing um that that folks would would relate me to that because of course you know she had

inspired me you know we all have our like our's, it's kind of Nikki like a poem. And then I actually got to, to meet her, you know, we are a couple of degrees of separation and then she edited a collection and I got in the collection. And so to be recognized by someone who recognizes you. And then it was after this, I was just looking at her as a sister and a black woman and a poet. And then I began to understand all the LGBTQ sort of that community and that

challenge. And I'm like, she ain't complained boo about that. She just up in there hustling and working and doing her thing. And then when we had that, that shooting at the university in Virginia, I swear, Nikki saved them all.

Just, shooting at the university in Virginia, I swear, Nikki saved them all. Just the way that the spirit of a sister and then wrapping that in poetry just sort of calmed the campus down. So that was Nikki because I grew up sort of wanting to have that kind of fire. And then she saw me. And then there's Maya Angelou, which is, I will never be that nice, calm and peaceful. She just had that essence, that spirit. And what most people probably don't know, if you haven't seen, she was really tall. Right. She was over like six feet. She's about six feet.

She is majestic. And she still walked that way because she also used to dance. For the longest time, she gave the welcome freshman address at Duke University, which is where I went. So that was the first time I got to see her in person and just this level of energy. But even in that peacefulness, when she would talk about stories, which is, you know, I don't let people bring negative energy in my house. If I'm having an event and I see some negative energy, I kindly escort them out the door.

And I was like, oh, we can do that. Then I also found out that she had a life. She's a little free. She didn't care. She didn't care if she wants something, she'd go get it. I was like, okay, all right. So you can be this and you can still be full and human and whole. And she does something that I don't quite yet do with my poetry,

which is a lot of her poetry was incredibly personal and incredibly open to like her particular experience. And that was also something that I was reaching for. And so between those two women, like every time a new documentary or book or something comes out, it just sort of blows my mind and reminds me that they're whole people. So I would say those are two of my inspiration stories. What are the plans for the one-year anniversary of the museum? That's the summer. What are we doing? What are we doing, Dr.?

Oh, my gosh. It is so coming. You know, because we just opened. I'm like, we just opened. It's like the anniversary's already like that? Is that 12 months? So one, you know, obviously we opened up on June 27. Then we start our opening ceremonies a little bit before that.

For me, that means I get the entire month of June. I definitely get the entire Juneteenth season. All right. So Juneteenth is our whole anniversary season. So, of course, there is a Juneteenth itself. So we are going to have some special programs and kickoffs for that. And one of the things I actually like about that is that in our particular community, the museum does not have to lead Juneteenth. And folks may be surprised to hear me say that, you know, that I'm excited to be sort of like supporting, but that's a sign

of a community that's growing, right? So now the Lowcountry got four, five, like Juneteenth celebrations, and I'd be out there trying to get to all of them. So that's good. So that's kind of the kickoff in that space. And so there's that joy. And then there's also that reverence. Like the thing I do is I like to always interweave, always interweave sort of the trauma and the joy and the resilience and the victory, all that together, because it also comes around the anniversary of Mother Emanuel, right? So all of that, all of that is happening. They are not disconnected and they don't have to be. You know how black folks

do. You've been to our funerals. We know how to get this done, right? So that's kind of how we have that kickoff. We're going to have sort of our own version of kind of like a classy bazaar is how we're going to do sort of our anniversary event. I go to a lot of

sit-down galas with the tablecloths and all that kind of stuff, and it's good. But, you know, when you can do something a little different, do a little something a little different. So we finally have our building, so we're going to be able to use our outside space to have sort of a kind of an upscale kind of bazaar. So we're designing what that's going to look like.

So stay tuned on that, what that's going to look like. So stay tuned on that. That's coming. And during June, Secretary Bunch is coming down. So Secretary Bunch, I know I'm looking at your face. So he listen, he told me he's like you get a couple of things. What do you need? He is a good he's a good man. And he's a great mentor to many of us in the field and so he's gonna come down we're gonna do a little fireside a little fireside chat so i'm gonna get a little shine a little shine off of a secretary bunch uh that he's going to be there as well so we've at least got got those those kinds of things uh going in that space. A little something special for our members, a little something special for our donors. So it'll be good.

I want everybody to support the International African American Museum or the IAAMuseum.org to support and get more information. But, Dr. T, I've never asked you to do this. Would you mind ending on a poem or something? Some things in the low country are a little spooky, right? There's some serious energy down there. We are very supernatural people. We believe in the supernatural. It really is.

And so there's this thing happening with the number nine, right? So, of course, there's the Emanuel nine. That was Mother Emanuel. And then there's the Charleston nine. And these were these were the firemen uh that went in the space and and we lost them and then there were the nine that we lost at uh the albright and wilson explosion at a faculty okay listen i was like three nines and i was like okay yeah i don't know sort of what what is happening here but i was invited to uh to do

something for spotlight awards which was an awards that sort of uses the memories of those folks to honor folks who've done some service. And so this is this is the poem that came came out. So this is called Rise. It's dedicated to the Emanuel Nine, the Charleston Nine and the nine we lost at the Albright and Wilson explosion. And it riffs off of a quote by Dinos Christanopoulos, which is what didn't you do to bury me? But you forgot that I was a seed. When they tried to bury me, I discovered I was seed told I came from nothing, but I got roots conditioned to be weak, but kin known to break through concrete. So I watched and learned and stretched and burned and birthed and grew and flowered. So when the mowers came, I laughed like a dandelion. When the axemen returned, I rolled my eyes like acorns.

Some folk don't know how trees work. When they tried to bury me, I discovered I was seed. Then they threatened me with the storm and found out I was born of the water. This that thing threatens them the most. Who that they say I can't swim? My tears salted these seas, crying over bones and desperate pleas. I marched deep through these waters, like bridges, like tunnels, my wake spirals and funnels, memory. Headstones that birth coral, feed schools, cushion quakes, carve canyons, calcify

shark teeth, cap volcanoes at the spout. And sometimes, just sometimes, these waves rise up and remind the storm what water is really about. When they tried to bury me, I discovered I was seed. Then they tried to burn me and found out that I am the flame. Set fire to my home, set bomb in my garden, set brands on my body, even use my religion to burn. When will we learn? Never torch a phoenix. Nine feathers to pray and redeem you. Nine feathers to work every day and feed you. Ninefold wingspan expand flies into the flames and saves you. Hate fizzles. Only love sets fire like I do. Water from that storm quenched me. Heat from that flame released me. I sang myself to sleep beneath the soil so deep and sweet and true. When you tried to bury

me, I discovered I am seed. So the only thing left to say is, thank you. Ooh! Thank you, Dr. Tanya Maffey. You are so welcome, so welcome. CEO and President of the International African American Museum in Charleston, South Carolina. Once again, go to IAAMuseum.org to get more information on the museum or to get tickets if you can.

That's right. Come on down to Charleston. We got you. That's right. Give me a ticket. Oh, we're going this summer. Oh, you're going to be pregnant, though. Oh, that means I can't.

No, you're going to be like eight, nine months by now but i don't know if you can fly yeah i'm be able to fly we'll see my due date is august 18th so we're gonna come before august yeah come come before august yeah i'm gonna come to june you know you got all that stuff going on exactly no yeah june june be plenty of time you ain't gonna deliver six months yeah you can't do nothing around here. Happy Women's Month. It's Dr. Tanya Matthews at The Breakfast Club. Wake that ass up. In the morning.

The Breakfast Club. Hi guys, I'm Kate Max. You might know me from my popular online series, The Running Interview Show, where I run with celebrities, athletes, entrepreneurs, and more. After those runs, the conversations keep going. That's what my podcast, Post Run High, is all about. It's a chance to sit down with my guests and dive even deeper into their stories, their journeys, and the thoughts that arise once we've hit the pavement together.

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