The Breakfast Club - INTERVIEW: Good Mom Bad Choices Podcast Talk Uncensored Motherhood, Couples Retreat, Co-Parenting +More

Episode Date: January 27, 2025

The Breakfast Club Sits Down With Good Mom Bad Choices Podcast To Discuss Uncensored Motherhood, Couples Retreat, Co-Parenting. Listen For More! See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

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It's DJ NV Jess Hilarious, Charlamagne the guy. We are the Breakfast Club. Lauren LaRosa filling in for Jess. And we got some special guests joining us today. Yes, indeed. Season two of their podcast on The Black Effect, Good Mom, Bad Choices podcast. We have Erica Dickerson and Jamila Mapp. Welcome ladies.

Thank you. Hey. How y'all feeling? Great, we're feeling really good. Yeah. I love the name of y'all podcast, Good Moms Bad Choices. What does that mean? You know, I think society has deemed women and moms

in a certain light and historically we're not really allowed to make bad choices but really bad choices are relative. You know like smoking a blunt is a good choice for me but for other people that might be a bad choice you know. So I think it really kind of just flips the narrative around what bad choices actually are and allows moms in particular to give themselves grace and prioritize whatever the fuck it is that they want to prioritize. It's funny though, because a lot of people

really hated that name. All of our friends told us that was a bad idea. That was a bad idea. Why? I don't know, because I think bad choices and good moms don't go together and you assume that that means something terrible, but I mean, I'm sure we've all made some choices

that some other person told you were bad, but they were actually fun or good or exciting, and sometimes you gotta make your own choice choice and I think you know people put moms in a box you can only behave a certain way can only dress a certain ways like you give birth and suddenly you're fucking Martha Stewart or something but the truth is is you had a baby because you had sex so you know there's just like the humanness of it that That's what I thought it was. I thought you saying the bad choice is the baby daddy. No.

OK. Sometimes. Sometimes. Sometimes. That's relative. That wasn't why we made the name. But did we make some choices that could have been better? Yes.

But you learn from those choices. And then you find a second baby daddy that's better. Oh. I'm, I'm, I'm. She's still looking for the baby daddy. First of all, husband. That is true. Yes, you gotta start there.

Yeah. Well man. Wait. You don't know what she wants. I'm saying you gotta start somewhere. You find the man first and then it evolves to the. You gonna let me know how to get the man to keep him, right? You don't know what she wants.

No, I don't know how to keep him in. Yeah, I'm trying, but exactly. Um, don't mind him. What was I gonna, Dan you made me. Oh, you said second baby, sometimes people find a second baby daddy. I don't know you guys personally and I'm new to watching and listening to your podcast So forgive me or are you guys on the journey of finding a second baby daddy? Are you still with the first baby daddy like we're y'all in your journey. Oh one is engaged. Okay

I just got engaged last week. Okay, so I have found my second baby Yeah, thank you For you and I think that's another thing is like, women, there's like the stigma that you have to say with your baby daddy or you're deemed unworthy or unmarryable after you're a single mom. And it's just not true. It's not real.

And like sometimes you got to do better the second time. And sometimes you got to leave the first one for your happiness and for your peace, and that's OK. Can you walk us through the engagement? How long were you dating the guy and all of that type of stuff? I just want to make Lauren feel bad about not having nobody. Jesus. You're gonna make me feel bad. Are you gonna give me something? This is a hopeful story. Let's get back on you. Let's focus on you. So tell us about the engagement and how it happened because I saw that trending last week

on I think it was Twitter. There was a girl that was like and for all the guys that keep saying just because you have a kid nobody's gonna want you, my stepdaddy DMs is lined up. Baby. And I know that was a big fear of ours. I think that was how we like kind of formed our podcast too, is like as black women. It's so like the stereotype of being a single black mom is, it's crazy, you know, like, no woman wants that to be a single mom. But particularly for black women, there's this heavy burden of like, oh my God.

And the truth is, is like, you learn, you get better. When you're a mother, you get dating, it gets taken more seriously. I don't have time to play, I don't have time for BS. I know what I need and what I want. So yeah, I met my man four years ago. We dated for three years. He's from New York, I imported him to LA.

Cause LA men are not so great. But yeah, we dated for three years. We lived together for two and we've been engaged two weeks. So, you know, we did a little, I did the adult thing. Congratulations, man. Thank you. Congratulations. There's hope, ladies.

Why you keep looking at me? I'm not, because you in the room looking at the table. I'm making eye contact with everybody. Eye contact with Envy, not me. Okay, for this podcast. What about you? You in the room looking at the table, making eye contact with everybody. Eye contact with Envy, not me. What about you? I have a partner and so we're still, we're not anywhere near where she's at, but it's been a journey.

As a single mom, I think that, like you said, there's a lot of shame. I remember when I first, when I, me and my child's father broke up, I remember I joined Tinder and I always tell our listeners, new moms that are trying to get out there. I'm like, dating apps are the shit when you first like become single like for me I really needed the confidence boost because I felt so disconnected from my sexuality I felt so disconnected from just my value in so many ways and unfortunately not fortunate. Well, unfortunately unfortunately I really did I needed that confidence was to be like, oh

Swipe right. Okay, okay. But I think that for me in this period, in this time, and in my journey of being a single mom, I have learned through the people that I've dated, which things haven't worked out, but I've evolved so much. I've been able to, I think, manifest this person that I'm with now who accepts me holistically.

Because one thing that we were told and we've been told a lot because of our show and the content of our show, we talk about sex very candidly. We talk about our dating experiences very candidly. We talk about our bad choices very candidly. And you're not gonna find a man like that. No man's gonna marry that.

You like your titties out? Like you don't like shirts? Like we literally... You don't like shirts or like shirts. You don't like shirts. She doesn't like shirts, you know? And her titty makes an appearance. I was like, bitch, we can't make an appearance today, okay? The right titty likes to make an appearance. But there's a lot of narrative around just being too confident and in your body. And to you.

Yeah, being too you, you have to compartmentalize yourself to be a wife, to be a high valued woman, which is a conversation that I feel like is has always been part in, it's been on the internet for a long time, but now women are pushing this narrative of being high valued women. And I feel like that's very dangerous

and very violent against women, specifically when it's pushed by women. And so- Rest in peace, Kevin Samuels. The goddesses did their job. Jesus. Bam. So I just feel like we're in a time now

where women are realizing that their value is not linked necessarily to how they dress. Their value isn't linked to how they talk. It's linked to how deeply they've met themselves. And through this process, I've been able to meet myself. And I mean, we always talk about this. We're continuously in works of progress. Like, I ain't healed.

I'm very vocal about where I'm at. And even with the women that we work with at our retreats, because now we know we do international retreats with women, we've brought hundreds of women out of the country to do the work that we do. And it's really about that, is meeting yourself, empowering yourself, finding your tribe. Me and Mila, we weren't friends when we started our podcast. I saw her on the internet. I judged her because her titties were out. And we were both pregnant at the same time. And I had subscribed to this narrative of what motherhood was supposed to be like.

I couldn't smoke weed anymore. Even though my baby daddy was a rapper, I was going to this narrative of what motherhood was supposed to be like. I couldn't smoke weed anymore. Even though my baby daddy was a rapper, I was going to be put together and those parts of myself had to die. And I saw her and she triggered the fuck out of me. I was like, wow, she can show up as herself, just as she is. Thankfully, my hating didn't deter me from- I was about to say, what was the first interaction like?

Was the hate all the way going or was it like- No, well, my friend kept posting her and I was like, who is what was the first interaction like? Because was the hate all the way going or was it like? No, well, my friend kept posting her and I was like, who is this girl? You keep posting. Like none of my friends had kids. And so I was desperate. I was like, you know what? I need to meet her.

She seems like she's cool. And so, you know, my friend was like, we're going to a bar tonight. You want to come and meet her? Which is like so out of, I would never just go and try to like, now I would. But at that time, I would never go out of my way to go meet a stranger friend at a bar. But I was desperate. I literally pumped in the car because I was my daughter was three months old and went in to find Jamila because I knew only had like 90 minutes before my mama started calling me and judging me for being out too early after giving birth and cornered her almost like, I heard that you have a kid. My friend posted you on the internet and she was like, yeah. She had also saw me on the internet and made preconceived notions about me, my lifestyle and what I do.

And thankfully we pushed past that. We pushed past the judgment, which I think a lot of times women, we have a hard time doing that. We judge each other so much and we hold each other back. And so the work that we do on the podcast, at the retreats, in our book, is really about bringing women together and understanding that we are so much stronger together. And yeah.

You said a lot of shit just now, Erika, that I wanna talk about. Okay, let's do it. I never heard somebody refer to dating apps and say that it gave them confidence. Can you respond on that a little bit? Yeah, I mean, I felt so unattractive in my relationship. I felt so undesirable in my relationship.

I was desperate for validation, and my partner was like, that's not my job. And granted, maybe that's not his job holistically, but I felt like, Nick, I just pushed out your baby. I'm feeling a little, I need some help here. And so when we broke up, I was really nervous to get on a dating app, A, cause like, I was like, oh my God, what if someone sees me on there?

What if he sees me on there? But then it became kind of, you know, dating app is kind of like, they've gamified it. So, you know, you're swiping and like, people are like wanting to match with you. So I'm like, it's giving you confidence, whether it's a false sense of confidence, it's the beginning.

It's the path towards really believing it. And so for me, dating apps really led me into really feeling like, okay, I'm, I am desirable. Oh, I do deserve pleasure. Oh, I do deserve to be taken out. And so I think a lot of women, they don't know where to start. And I'm not necessarily saying that's where everyone's path needs to start. But for me, that was really healing for me. And in the path of this dating app is really, I think we always say, like, two moms walked

in a bar and met each other. But really the story began when I went on this dating app and I ended up swiping on what I thought was a woman, because I was going both ways. And then I swiped and it was she was pictured with her husband and I was like why is this man in this picture and I kept swiping and I was like and then I read and was like we're a couple looking to spoil someone special and I was like huh okay well this is something I always kind of wanted to explore with my cheating baby daddy but couldn't trust

him so maybe now is the time. And so I did. And even in that exploration with this couple, I felt excitement, but I also felt shame because I'm a mom. So I was like going and having threesomes with this married couple and then going home and tucking my daughter into bed. And being like, what life am I living?

Is this okay? Like, I feel really good. I feel like I'm like I feel confident I feel excited about what's happening. Um, but am I a good mom because of this? And so when I shared this story with Jamila and this was like maybe our second interaction, um, it really opened up the door for her to feel comfortable sharing with me. And I know it sounds silly, like a threesome brought you together, but yeah, actually in conversation or like, oh, this is in conversation or? No.

No conversation. No, no, no, no. Calm down, Lauren. No, I was just, when she said it, I'm like, whoa, hold on, where did we just go? The date nap thing, it seems like it's the new school way of putting on a nice dress, getting your head done, and going out to the club back in the day.

When your man pissing you off, you go out to the club just to get the attention. But you said your man didn't give you something so the date nap, so y'all were still together or y'all weren't together? No, we weren't get the... But you said your man didn't give you something to do the dating app, so you all were still together or you weren't together? No, we weren't together. Oh, but you still wanted him to give you that because you had just had his baby? Yeah.

I mean, I had gained a lot of weight in pregnancy and so I just didn't recognize myself. I really needed my partner to empower me. In the end of the relationship before it ended and that's when she left. Yeah, no, no. I wasn't on dating apps while I was with him. No, no, no. For clarity. And I always want, you know, when you you have situations like that and I'm sure you talk about it on the podcast, right?

But when your child gets to like 15 16 and they start clicking is that a conversation you have beforehand? He'd be like, I'm gonna let him find out on their own Well, you need to warn your child. So in 2000 and let me tell you 2020 your mama had threesome I'm just letting you know in case you read about it. Just in case you read about it. Also, in 2023. Because you know, in this day and age, they'll pull it right up. Like, we know your mama, we know your mama did this.

It ain't like before where it was off the internet. Like, I don't know nothing going on with my mom or my grandmom. Like, you just don't know. I think it's been- But this age, our kids know. But I think that's been, not that everybody, your kids need to know your whole sex catalog, however, I think it's detrimental. Like there is a misconception that parents,

fathers included, are these perfect superhero people and to our kids we are, but I think most importantly, when our kids get of age and start exploring our catalog, first of all, I hope you have a lot of time, babe. I mean, over 300 episodes. But I want my daughter to remember, like, my mom is exactly who the fuck she says she is. There's no gray area. She knows my titties be out. She knows who I am. She loves me. She respects me because I am a great mother to her. So what I do sexually as an adult is never going to sway how she feels about me as an adult. I'm a parent. I'm an adult and I can indulge.

That's my right, it's my birthright. Pleasure is my birthright and it's medicine. That is not a narrative that I intend on keeping, that we intend on keeping from our daughters. So I think the transparency, A, has been medicine for us and our friendship and for our community because other women are like, damn, I needed to know other women are smoking and blind

and I'm not a terrible person. Oh, I needed to know other women are out here dating and I'm not a terrible person No, you deserve to live and so do our kids and I hope that we're setting that example and that our catalog is so much More than just you know, the 50 probably sex stories that are in there But that there's a you know, there's a deep understanding of who we truly are What is this titties out thing? Y'all keep talking about these things. And I'm trying to make eye contact, but she don't have her titties out. You know what I mean? No, they're in today. They are in today.

I'm in. What is it? What does she mean? Like you walk around shirtless or something? Yeah, I do. Like, like, like. In public? Shirt off?

No, but. Yeah. I mean, where I can, I'm like at my house, in her house, if we're in, we're on vacation, we travel a lot. My family, my friends know my titties be out because it's usually a house that I live in or I paid for or my friends are my friends. And so I've created a community who are okay with that

because I'm comfortable in my skin and that's how I feel comfortable. Did you have a traumatic experience with a shirt? A turtleneck when I was in fourth grade really overcame my neck. I want to go back to the bad choices. We were talking about the bad choices, right? So are the bad choices are parenting choices?

Are they men choices or all of the above, right? Because I always say, I have six kids. I always say the first two are like the guinea pigs, right? Because you got to learn what to do, what not to do. And then the next four you kind of get. So what are the bad choices? I mean, there's definitely some bad choices and I think like you said the first two are guinea pigs like everything's trial and error and hopefully

you learn and I think that is the thing in bad choices. I still ain't learning though. I mean apparently you got six of them. I'm hoping from zero to six it got better and that's the thing we're ever evolving and you know and like you trip you fall down you get the fuck back up that that is life and we don't talk about that enough we only show the result and like the bad choices sometimes are are bad actually really bad and then you you can you know re re hopefully they lead to better choices realign like okay that was fucked up i i did too much this way it's a constant sway of balance and that is how you get better by acknowledging what you've done and being and being able to have conversations and reflect upon it.

But if you don't have friends that you could be honest with and be like, bitch, I had this three summer probably shouldn't have left last night. You know, she can't be like, girl, get it together, because we're we're so afraid to be judged. But if you can say the thing, then you can you can be better from it. Erica question for you. I know you and only because you mentioned this earlier. I know what your kid's dad with Freddie is a little bit different for you to because only because you mentioned this earlier, I know what your kid's dad, with Freddie,

is a little bit different for you too, because he's an artist. Like, people know Freddie Gibbs, right? How do you deal with the judgment, because yours is like, probably like 50 times more, because your relationship and everything that happened out of it was so public. Like, is that harder for you?

Is it harder to talk about? Is it, like, how does it? No, it's not hard for me to talk about it. I mean, early on in the show it was I mean when we started the podcast I was real relatively like maybe five months out of our breakup. Whoa, you were mentally okay enough your breakup was pretty no I was not okay which is why I need to sit with this bitch and talk. So wait so back it up then talk me through that so you're five months out of you were engaged you y'all just welcome your baby then you find out there's another woman, another baby. Then

you decide to go get on a public platform and start a podcast. What was your thinking around that? And like, mentally, I started just talking to her. What else did you do to be able to get through that? That's rough. You know, I didn't have a lot of thought, honestly, people ask us why we started the show. It was really I just needed someone to talk to. And I started listening to podcasts, actually, really murder mystery podcasts. And then I started looking up podcasts in the, you know, single mom podcast, black podcast.

At the time, there were really none. Like the space has changed and evolved so much. But before that, it was like white moms drinking wine, calling their kids assholes, and like nerdy white guys, like, and murder mystery shit, which is why I was there. And so, you know, I felt like, wow, this space is wide open. I wonder if like my friend that I just met, because I didn't know Jamila really at all, would want to sit and like, let's just talk about being single moms.

And then as we started talking and just being vulnerable, things just started pouring out. She told me the story. And I and just being vulnerable, things just started pouring out. She told me the story about the couple. Oh, about the threesome? And I immediately was intrigued, because we'd hung out, but it was very surface. And I was like, oh, this bitch is kind of spicy.

I kind of like her. I was like, OK, I can kind of get with this. Because at first, it was very like, how are you liking motherhood? It's great. I love it. You know, and not being real. And when she said that, it immediately

made me feel close to her. And I asked her at that moment, I said, OK, I'll do the podcast. I don't even know what the fuck that is, like not being real. And when she said that, it immediately made me feel close to her. And I asked her at that moment, I said, OK, I'll do the podcast. I don't even know what the fuck that is, like a radio show. I was like, but are you going to tell the story about your couple? Because that's the only way I could do it, on or off. I don't really have a great area.

And she was like, OK. Black couple or white couple? Black and white. Oh, yeah. Black woman. And white husband. Oh. Dr. Umar would be so disappointed. Dr. Umar was like, this white man got three queens?

Three? Or two? Two. His wife is beautiful, yes. But putting that into perspective for you of that, I guess, being a liberating experience, and you start this podcast, you have this friend now, this home girl who can support you in a different way,

because she was your first mom friend, you said, right? How did you guys talk through even you talking to your daughter eventually about like what you went through and your decision to put on a podcast? Well, to go back to your original question, I think that I didn't really give a fuck because he didn't really consider me at all. Right.

So I didn't really have a lot of consideration for him, although I did protect him a lot. I didn't share so much until maybe a year in because it wasn't confirmed even for a while, even when I was recording the show, whether this was his child or not. As I started to share more, I felt empowered because a lot of women were writing in and telling me, me too. Been there, done too. Yeah. And so when you have that support, you feel more brave, you know, and I feel like that's

why our show has been so successful is because we've been really brave and sharing our testimony and sharing our truth. And with that becomes the community with that comes the support. And so I felt very supported. And luckily we haven't people always ask us like, have you gotten a lot of backlash on your show? Not really. Like we have a very supportive community of men and women

And so, you know, obviously me and my child's father our relationship has evolved over the years. We're cool We're co-parents, you know, but there was a lot of hurt. There was a lot of anger there was a lot of confusion and I really needed a place to heal and honestly behind the mic was healing. Sharing stories and talking is a major form of medicine. And even when I step away from the mic for too long, I kinda miss it. I'd be like, damn, I got some shit to say. I gotta get this off.

And so, I'm sorry, what was the second question? I think just having her as a support system. I don't have a kid, but I've been through the whole, my person having a baby with another person, and I decided to stay after, and it was really tough because you don't have people that really understand it. So you as a friend, my question was what was that support system like just having another mom that's like, yo, I got you.

And we publicly doing this together. Like, what was that like? Yeah, I mean, we were kind of in similar spaces. We met each other like I always say like God just it was God's timing. We met each other at very crucial moments in our motherhood. She was just, she had just broken up with her child's father. I had just broken up with mine

and it was like, bitch, we outside. So like the first two, three years of our show was really about like our, just all the things, all the journeys and like rediscovering ourselves as these new women, as these new, as mothers, but mostly Erica and Jamila. Like who are we outside of just that? And then how do we come back to motherhood and be able to nourish our children and be good moms?

So I think just being honest, really saying the thing. And even in our friendship, like our friendship has gone through trials and tribulations as well. We've been vocal about that on our podcast as well. And just saying the thing has been, I think, really important because specifically women, we're really quick to cut off women if they irritate us or they say the wrong thing or they're doing too much, you know?

And that's just not, that's just, this has been honestly like the best relationship I've had. It's also been one of the most challenging relationships I've had because we always talk about our friendship as platonic, we're in a platonic marriage Our kids, you know travel together. They go to camp together We share bank accounts like I've made more money than with her than anyone in my entire life, you know Even in it still I know business business partners who still they have a business account but like they keep their little stashes

And then it's still, I know business partners who still, they have a business account, but like they keep their little stashes separate. I mean, we have separate accounts, but most of our accounts be together. Yeah. We do a lot of things together. And I think we realized when we started to just be honest and tap into ourselves,

we were the most successful we had ever been. Like all of our- Being honest. Yeah, all of our businesses have, all three of them are very successful. And I think a lot of that is a testimony to us being honest with one another and and sharing and And also I think when you start tapping into your pleasure and when I say pleasure because I think pleasure also gets a bad rap People always associate pleasure with sex. Yeah, but pleasure is a full spectrum of emotions. It's everything. It's grief. It's shame. It's love

It's it's all the things There's a journey that you go on and there's a healing that happens that opens you up and expands you. And you become a better mom, you become a better businesswoman, you become a better wife, you become a better girlfriend. All these things start to unlock in yourself. And I think for us,

it became just this ritual weekly doing that. And so, Jamila's my best friend, she's my sister, she's my platonic wife. Although I don't know if I'm supposed to give up that title now that you're gonna be a real wife. Never, never. It's a purple. It's a very purple.

What is a sexologist and tantric practitioner? Cause that's what y'all are too. That's what y'all retreats are about, right? No, I retreats are, I mean, in some way, yeah, tantra is about like starting the dialogue with your body, using pleasure as medicine. Like she said, I think a lot of times people think pleasure is about like, starting the dialogue with your body, using pleasure as medicine. Like she said, I think a lot of times people think pleasure is just like sex. You're just solely in the bedroom.

You lock the door, you turn the lights off, you don't talk about it. But there's pleasure in all things, right? Like you probably, I saw you with your little snuggie on this morning. I was cold. But you know, like sometimes there's those things that just like, ah. Lighting a candle, setting the vibe, eating. A good meal. And like, I think sometimes we reserve those intimate pleasures

for like, we just put everything in a box. And so it's just like, it's a spiritual technology that is like a practice of being in tune with your pleasure and not removing the divinity from intimacy and from sex. Cause it's very, it's given to us by God. And I think it's just about teaching and practicing other people to do that too. That's the definition of tantric?

The definition of tantric is weaving sound and light. Sound and light. So like how you play good, well see that's going back to sex, I was gonna say like how you play a good playlist and like you set the mood, but that's going back to sex. Well it's like sound and light with form, right? So it's like, it's literally like compounding all the things, all the things that bring you pleasure

and weaving them together and understanding like the whole, the totality of it. One thing is not just here, sex and pleasure are not just here. This is not just here. It's all in, it's all blurry. It's all watercolors. When you said that I envisioned like a candle lit

and like you smoking a blunt and the smoke is going but then like some music might be playing, like all of that is. Like the vibe at a spa too. Like yeah, yeah, yeah. Like whatever's gonna like interact with all your senses, your taste, your sound, like like you said, touch. Like a sound bath too, yeah.

And you know, we're actually doing our first couple's retreat in June, which is very- June 14th in Costa Rica. Yes, June 14th. So I have a person, and you meet the people there, you gotta have a person to go to that, right? Yeah, this one. But I was thinking, I was like,

do we need to do a speed dating? Like a matchmaking situation, singles? I threw you that. By then you might have one. But you know what, I encourage people that are just starting to date to come, to tap into these type of experiences as well, because it really helps set the foundation

for the rest of your relationship. Like don't wait till you have some fucked up shit going on in your relationship. Do you be like, let's, we need to go on a retreat. But how do you know? You gotta find a man first before you do. First of all, it is a couple retreats. No, what I was about to say is if you got a couple things

going on, how you know which one like. Or which dude you wanna take. Yeah, how am I leaning? You always know. No, you might have like one in a good, one in a possible, right? But it's like then you lean in the wrong way too much and then that messes up and you don't want

to do the couples retreat for four days and now you can't talk to the other one. Wait, what happened? What? She's telling on herself. I'm asking you, how do you know which one to go with? How am I bringing you to this couples retreat? It's gonna isolate just me and you for these days

and cut off my conversation to any and everybody else. What you're gonna bring to the couples retreat? She got two is what she said. No, that's not what I'm saying. That's exactly what I'm saying. I'm asking for women who are dating multiple men. If I'm the possible, I'm super upset. I don't know if you want me to be possible.

Who is number one on the roster? That's who you bring. She don't know. That's who you bring. I don't even have a roster. Women always know who's number one. I've been trying to figure this out for a long time. There is never a fucking solid tie.

I've had many rosters. There's never a solid tie. It's always someone you want to spend more time with, and the other one's number one. There is never a fucking solid tie. I've had many rosters, there's never a solid tie. It's always someone you want to spend more time with and the other one's just available. Have you guys ever had someone come, this is your first couple retreat, or are you doing another one? This is our first one.

Okay, I was gonna say, what if somebody shows up with a person you're not supposed to be there with? How do you guys handle that? I'ma tell you. The Indicator is a podcast where daily economic news is about what matters to you. And we're guessing most days, that's money. Workers have been feeling the sting of inflation.

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No, I don't. We haven't. More so, you get the vibe through the different things that you're doing throughout the weekend. I don't think y should mesh. Well, well first of all for me, I'm not gonna do that I'm gonna allow them to self discover and through the practices they're going to it's going to be crystal clear They're very very close to clear, you know But hopefully, you know, hopefully that's not the case, you know, and and I know you don't have a partner right now But we do have women's retreats Hopefully that's not the case, you know, and I know you don't have a partner right now, but we do have women's retreats.

Oh, actually zero. We got the reset and vibe. Reset and vibe retreat. There you go. And we actually just released our dates for the summertime and we're actually doing a giveaway and we're giving away a free spot. So if anyone listening is interested in coming to a women's retreat in Costa Rica, it's the reset and vibe retreat.

This is really about really resetting your vibe, resetting your nervous system, tapping in, meeting a group of like-minded women. Manifesting the man of your dreams. It's playful, it's healing. It's jamilis titties will be out. There is a lot of nudity at the retreats. Women are like... Is it a nudist resort? No.

We take over the property, though. We take over the property, so we have a pool. And women are just like, want to be confident in their bodies. Some women have literally never even walked around their house naked, you know, so this is a safe space for you to like explore all the facets of you. You don't have to do that. It's not a requirement. This is not a nudist retreat.

I want to be clear, but this is a place for you to show up however it is that you want to whoever you are when you're here in New York or wherever the hell or when you're with your homegirl that you've known since you were 12 and she's still holding you to this archaic version of yourself when you come to the retreat You can be whoever the fuck you want to be you can rebrand yourself. You can be the loudest girl in the room Maybe you're the quietest one at work, you know, and This is a place where I have seen such incredible incredible transformations from the women from beat from the literally from beginning, when they walk on property to the end. And then it keeps going.

And not only that, the women stay connected. So, you know, when the work that we do, we get so many questions of like, I don't have any female friends. I don't trust women. You know, I don't fuck with women like that. Well, you need to. You know, I don't think that's really an option now.

Like we really need each other. And so I'm excited because we are giving away a spot to our retreat. So if you're listening and you're interested, join our Patreon and all the details are in our Patreon of how to enter the giveaway. And it's an all expense pay trip minus the flight. But everything there once you arrive, everything's handled for you. And that's the thing too, is like, as women, we're such a doers.

We wanna like plan every little thing. When you arrive, me and Mila take care of everything. So. How do you subscribe to Patreon? What do you do? You go to patreon.com slash good moms, bad choices. And then you will see all the details there. And once you just subscribe to Patreon,

you get access to our Discord community, which is really like, that is like the most like rich intimate tribe there's a lot of moms and women there's men there too but you know it's a lot of honest talking and so it's like tender for friends. The reset plus vibe in Costa Rica that's February 1st through the 6th. Yeah but that's done. Those are sold out. Oh sold out okay. That's sold out yeah this is in the summertime so this is July 31st through the 6th. Yeah, but that's done. Those are sold out. Oh, sold out?

OK, OK. That's sold out, yeah. This is in the summertime. So this is July 31st through August 5th. So it's the summertime. Get the babysitter. You have time. Stop making excuses.

Come by yourself. 90% of the women, actually like 98% of the women, come alone to our retreats. And I recommend it. Like I said, when you go on trips with friends sometimes, you feel you got to take care of bitches You feel like you can't be you're like this new version. You're trying to be They usually taking care of you that's why you don't understand it Not you but like women are always asking for permission like do you want to go do you want what do you think?

You don't want to go? I'm not gonna go if you don't want to. I'll wait. Do you want shots? Yeah. Do you want shots? That's what you be saying all the time over and over and over.

You made a good point earlier about the mom friend, her being your first mom friend. I have a friend who is the only one out of our friend group that has a kid. And I remember she was going through a point where she was trying to figure out mom friends. She has them now. And I used to be like, why you wanna have other friends?

Like we your friends. What can you talk about that discovery journey and like why that's important? Cause I think she did need that now that I'm older, but then I was like, girl, who them people? You've gone through this incredible rite of passage that you can't explain to anybody else. Like you have to, it's kind of like you had to be there.

You know, and I think sometimes of course like the aunties matter of we need the aunties all the time But I think like when moms find their mom friend it creates a place where there's like a very True understanding of where we're at what we're doing what we're dealing with You know the aunties only want to hear about you bitching about your kids so long. They're like, girl, she gonna come around and talk about this baby and oh my God, you know? So I feel like moms have a little more tolerance for that. So moms can't be aunties? Break that down for me. So no, no, no, they can. I was just saying that I was just saying that she was asking about the mom

friend situation. So I'm saying that aunties matter, but having a person that's actually going through the same thing, it's a different type of support. You know, it's interesting, because I'm sure people judge y'all just because of the content. That's what they do, especially in the podcast space.

If you're two black women and you're sexually liberated and you're talking about it, people judge. But the reality is, y'all are just having conversations out loud that people have in private all the damn time. Like, mama gotta have a life too. I'm sure it's pretty. Yeah, mama does.

After the baby is here. Yeah, mama does. You gotta get the man first. No, I'm not talking about me, I'm talking about my friends that I make sure have a good time that he was trying to play me about earlier. Mamas want shots too, they wanna have a good time. Mamas want shots too.

Mamas need shots more than everybody else. Bring the shots. Actually, I only have three hours. Let's go. Oh yeah. There's no one more drunk than a mom on a Friday night without her kid. Paying for a babysitter. This shit counts. How do you think y'all are breaking the old stereotype of pleasure deprived motherhood I guess? Being an example. You know I think like she said like we genuinely do give people permission and it's because sometimes you don't even I think women don't even realize that it's an option to show up as yourself when you hear two people and you're like oh oh they did that oh they're talking about it that's crazy oh she's talking about the threesome and she's also

talking about putting her kid in camp you know like those are real shit it's real shit but I think sometimes we especially as women, we actually need to see it done. We need to see, to have the permission, or else we just automatically sweep it as all one thing, it's all bad, because we've been told we've been given a lot of rules, and like, unfortunately, black women have the most, you know, we have the fit into the square the most.

A lot of white women can fuck up, they can, you know, overdose, and then host the Grammys the next day and everybody's fine. But black women, there's, we don't, and brown women, we don't get as much leeway. And so I think people, women generally needed to see us do the thing and hear about us doing the thing. To be like, oh, I can do that shit too.

Absolutely. I read an Essence article on you guys and you talked about apologizing to your kid and how good that has been and how freeing that is And we always had this conversation me with my mom like i'd be like you need to learn how to apologize But you guys are doing it early. Why and how has it worked in your relationship with your kid? Because I didn't get it. I didn't get no apologies, you know, and so and I realized how uh, I realized that

As when as I was as I was evolving in motherhood, and I always tell people, I'm a 10-year-old mother. I only know as much as I know of a 10-year-old mother. I'm new-ish at this point. Maybe a little seasoned? Not quite. But I've seen the power of apologizing. I've seen how much my daughter feels safe talking to me because her mom is willing to say,

hey, I kind of fucked up, I'm sorry about that. Hey, I lost my temper. And I think a lot of times we've pushed things under the rug and, like, all those things, they, you don't forget them as kids, you know? And then they show up in different ways in your life where you now have a problem apologizing. You can't acknowledge the things that you've done wrong

and now it's holding you back. And I just didn't want that for her. And so I think it's really important for parents overall to get used to that idea, not idea, that thing and do that. And like why wouldn't you? Why wouldn't you want to apologize to your child if you know you fucked up? I do it all the time? Yeah, and it feels good. It feels good to reverse whatever it is that you know didn't work for you. I think about, I had a recent parenting moment

with my daughter because she was getting bullied at school and I was like, oh no, so we're here because I'm gonna beat all these little bitches asses. I was like, okay, you can't do that. Don't do that, Erica. You can, just record it. Well, now I'm on breakfast club talking about it, so shit. It wasn't me.

And at first I was like, all right, I'm just gonna talk to the school and have them deal with this, because I don't know what to do. And then I was like, no, I have to face this head on. And so I sat with her and talked to her to face this head on. And so, you know, I was just, you know, I sat with her and talked to her and she had a really hard time telling me

because I think she's, my daughter's gonna be 10. And right now in her life, like her social circle is very important to her. You know, she's just building these friendships and like, it feels like her whole world. And so stirring the pot feels like, it's not a big deal, it's fine, you know? And so I was just empowering her to stand up for herself.

And after that moment, like I was talking it through, I was like, damn, that was good, yeah. You ever had those moments in parenting? You're like, yeah. I had one little apologize in the month, she's 16, apologize to her, I can't even remember what I apologized for. And she said, it's okay, this is your first time doing this. Wow. This meaning your first time as a father.

Like you know, you're ever 16. I was like, oh, okay. That one made me cry at the end. But it's true, like I don't know, we're winging it. You know, maybe you're a professional over here. I'm gonna start calling you. Okay, what do I do? Mine goes from 23 to three, so it's all over the game.

At the full range. It's all over, but you know, I got lucky with a lot. Like so, I was an only child. So the bullying thing I had to deal with myself as a kid being bullied, but see, they got siblings now. So where, you know, if my 10-year-old, I got an 11-year-old that's going to go to the school and hold it down where it's not daddy, I could push it and be like, yo, go look out for your sister.

But you know, some of those things I have because we have those conversations. But I think the best thing is, like you said, apologies, right? My dad and my mom never apologized to me. If they were wrong, you ate it, pause. But I think with me, it's like, come on, let me talk to you. You know, dad was a little upset. This was the reason why this happened, and they respect you and look at you a lot differently,

and they're able to be free. Like, my kids have conversations with me that I'm surprised that they tell me stuff, and I'm like, I would never tell my mother this. I would never tell my dad this, but they feel so comfortable, and sometimes I got to take a step and I'm like, I would never tell my mother this. I would never tell my dad this, but they feel so comfortable. And sometimes I gotta take a step back and be like, I have to understand, you know,

which is great. Well, and it's a testament, they were doing a great job. And we, you know, if your kids are talking to you in that way, like it's a, it's those little like, like confirmations along the way are like, okay, I'm not fucking up. They're safe, they feel safe. They feel safe, yeah.

And you know, it feels, like I said, it feels good to apologize to my daughter. And I've actually even said to her, listen, I don't really know what I'm doing. That's right. And do things different. I'm figuring it out. You know?

We can only reference our parents' parenting. And ultimately, they could use some improvement. But if you don't have the space to reflect and be like, okay, well this could have been better, and then apply it without, you have to be able to question what has happened in order to improve the systems. And it's true, sometimes I'm reacting in a way,

I'm like, why the fuck am I talking like this? I'm like, oh, that's how I was talked to. But then I have to pivot and shift, and it takes work. Like, mothering a child while also mothering myself, parenting myself, reprogramming myself, I'm sure you've all experienced it. It's difficult, but it's necessary for our kids to inherit different habits.

And so when their parents, hopefully, that we're changing generationally each time and getting better instead of just doing the same shit over and over again. Yeah. Yeah, I think that was the most difficult to not do what my parents do, right? My kids ask to go out, no, why? Because I said so, because that's what I heard. But then you have to come back and be like, well, let me explain why I think it's the most difficult to not do what my parents do, right? My kids ask to go out and know. Why?

Because I said so. Because that's what I heard. But then you have to come back and be like, well, let me explain why I think it's a bad idea. But as a kid, you just took it because you was like, I'm not arguing with my mother pops. But now you got to come back and be like, well, the reason I really don't want you to go is because it's not a safe environment. If you really think about it, this, that, and the other, and it's like, damn, I'm really

explaining myself to my three-year-old, but it is what it is. But now they feel respected as a human being, because our kids are human beings. And I think we forget that as parents, because we weren't always treated that way. You're a child, you stay in your place. Correct. Yeah.

Y'all have a book, too, A Good Mom's Guide to Making Bad Choices. Explain why they need a guide to make bad choices. You know, I think when we were writing this, I realized there are so many books about parenthood. How do you care for your baby? How do you swaddle the baby? What do you do?

There's all these things about how you care for a baby, and there's no books really about how the fuck do I care for myself after this huge thing that's happened? My body has changed. My life has changed. I'm implementing a new human, and I'm caring for something. And there's a lot of fear. There's a lot of anxiety in that that nobody talks about. And even for us, our book talks about

our journey in single parenting. There's a lot of moms experiencing that. A lot of moms fighting it, trying to put a fucking square in a circle. Sometimes it just don't work and that's okay. And so I think this book is really about the guide to finding yourself, whatever that is for you and being authentic in it. And also I think this book is really about the guide to finding yourself, whatever that is for you

and being authentic in it. And also like, how do you care for yourself in this process of parenting? Because there are no books about that. It's always about the child. And that's the thing about motherhood. It's like, it has to be self-sacrificing, but it doesn't and it shouldn't be.

And that's really what the book is based in. I wanted to ask, you know, did you ever resent your baby father's? And the reason I ask is, you know, she said, you know, because if you really look back and I think Charlamagne can say the same thing. I never had a baby father. No, I don't know what you've had. I don't know what you identify as.

But you know, if our wives ever leave the kids with us for a long time, you realize I really don't have control as a father, right? Your wife does everything for you. And the fact that she has, and I always say the main thing that she has is patience, right? I don't have the patience. But do you ever resent like, he's not here, he's not here to help, I don't know if he was there or not there, he's not here to take to school, he's not there for that time where I just need a break and just say, you know what, I need a shot, let me go walk around the block one time. Do you ever resent that? And if you did, how did y'all get over it? It's a work in progress.

I think that, you know, early on, of course, there was more resentfulness. I think there's acceptance too. You just have to kind of accept the person you chose and this is it, you know? And then from there, build the tribe. And that's really what I've done. I have an incredible support system that will show up when he can't, you know? And granted, both of us have very busy careers.

He's out of the country, out of town a lot. And so, 98% of everything has fallen into my hands. So I would be lying to say there's no resentment. Like, there hasn't been resentment. But I also just, I would be lying to say there's no resentment, like there hasn't been resentment. But I also just, I also like have to humanize him as well. If I'm gonna give grace to the women that I serve and give grace to myself,

then I also have to understand where he's at. What happened, like what wasn't, what needs were not met in your childhood? What things are you battling with that you're not confronting and avoiding? And so that doesn't always come because sometimes I want to curse him out. But then I have to kind of bring it back and say, okay, well, this work doesn't just apply to this.

I have to be able to apply it to both. And it doesn't do my daughter any benefit by me bad talking him, especially in front of her. I try my best for her to feel like we are still a family. We pray for her dad. We talk about her dad. I ask. Even like he had another child.

The reason we broke up was because he got another woman pregnant. And, you know, I never in a million years thought that I would be able to be like in the presence of that child ever. And I know there's a lot of women listening that have maybe experienced this or maybe going through this. My heart dropped because I know the feeling. Yeah. And it was I literally, I just there was no way I remember the first time he brought his son into my house, like unannounced and I was like

Did you cry? How was the did you cry? Like what would your I didn't even know how to cry? I was frozen, you know, like I you say Of course not because it's a baby. You don't want to react to the baby, you know Yeah and like as a as women like we are territorial around this role of mother and like this space that we Share with this person. Like this is what we decided to do and this is an interruption and you know, but but now like I have so much love for that child.

You know, I wouldn't be a good mom who makes bad choices without that child. Like thank you baby mama for you know, breaking the family up because because no truly because I didn't know myself then I was really like living for him. And so I think that, like to answer your question, it's just like about, or answer your question, it's just about like allowing grace and knowing that yes, there are times when I wanna curse that man out,

but also I love him because he gave me my daughter. Gotcha. You know? What if the other child was a daughter who looked just like the woman that he had the baby with? Jesus Christ. The other. That was a daughter, well, it was a son. I know, but what if it was a daughter

who looked just like the woman who he had another baby with? I don't think that would have, I don't, I mean, I probably would, I mean, again, like it would probably have been jarring at first, but you know, like, I think that I would have accepted that as well. All of Freddie's kids looked just looked just like him, you know.

And you have to have those conversations with the other mothers like, hey, let's even though this is not the situation, but we all have kids. Let them be siblings together. I only have a rapport with one. And, you know, it's not because I don't want to. It's like I I could reach out, I guess, but that just hasn't been my ministry yet. But there's no hate, there's no resentment.

Like we're all moms trying to do the best we can for our kids and you know, she made her choices and all of them have made their choices because you know, my baby daddy been busy with creating life since our first one. But yeah so. And Jamila you about resentment if there was any or no? I know it's like she said acceptance you know I knew who I had a baby with I'm accepting of that and then honestly there is a level of. That just sounds so crazy I knew how I had the baby with so

it is what it is. I mean, it is. I know. You gotta get to that point at some point. What you gonna do? You gotta raise the baby. Because you expect different, right? If you knew that that was gonna be the situation,

you would've did something different, right? You gotta raise the kid. If your aunt had a penis, she'd be your uncle. What does this part of it mean? But there's a level of pride. Yeah. Oh yeah, I had to think about that hard. I think he's saying it is what it is.

It is what it is. But no,. I would say talk about that level of pride in that because the resentment can that can cause some women to stay and y'all chose to step away. Well, yeah, you could be resentful and you can let that shit like fester or you could walk away and move on and accept the person you had a baby with. And even in this chapter of my life, I'm like, you know, do what you can. There's a lot of drop offs at the grandma's house, which, you know, if my child is safe and fed, I'm happy you're around.

But I also find joy in, like, I am the primary provider. Hey, you gotta take the kid. I'm going to the breakfast club tomorrow. I'm a big dog. Traveling. I have won so much in this. I have evolved so much in this relationship with my friend and this brand and this business.

Like I have really discovered something that I wouldn't have been able to discover had I stayed in that relationship. So I'm grateful, I'm grateful for the like, the awareness of myself to be like, this ain't gonna work, I can't see this forever, I'm out. And just honoring that and accepting him for who he is and accepting that that is not something

that I can't accept in my life in a romantic partnership and just letting it be. Because you know, Karma's is a bitch and you have to deal with that with your child when she gets of age because we have kids who are very well aware, very intelligent. We never disrespect our child's intelligence. So we're honest in an age appropriate manner. And so I give you the love and I know that you are going to have to deal with that relationship as she gets older and I, you know love and I know that you are gonna have to deal with that relationship as she gets older and I you know Good luck did the baby daddies ever come to y'all and apologize for what Envy's kind of referencing like that

Flack of like dang. I'm sorry or I put you through or denial denial denial If you ask them they probably would would say they have but I mean, you know most dads like I'm doing great Like you would see her in two weeks. Our baby's daddy's tried to link up a few times once and we were like what the hell Everyone last question Erica. How did you break up with that couple that dr. Umar wouldn't approve? How did you that's a Dr. Umar wouldn't approve of? How did you? Not that Dr. Umar wouldn't approve of. How did you break up with him? You know, it became a thing because I realized, not I realized, I knew this to begin with.

I don't really, I'm not into white men. I'm just not. You know, I really, I was trying because they were cool and he was handsome, but I realized that over time It just wasn't like I was more into his wife than I was to him Mm-hmm, and I respect it too because I told her to break up that happy Well, no, I was not trying to break up the happy home But she did ask me like Erica like what were you at? Like you haven't been responding to the calls that are done. I was like honestly like I'm more attracted to you and she was like Okay, thanks and she cut it off and I was like respect Wow like respect. And she cut it off. And I was like, respect. Like respect.

And that's why I really respected their dynamic. They showed me, I learned a lot from that relationship. I learned how much they loved, like how expansive their love was for one another. I felt honored to be able to come into their relationship and spend time with them and then also peace out. But yeah, it was more so it was just like, and also like I wanted to, it was just,

it was kind of like a, I got what I needed out of it and then I was done with it, you know? But I have a lot of love for them and they're a great couple. They're still together to this day. But we appreciate y'all for joining. Make sure you subscribe. Good Mom, Bad Choices podcast

on the Black Effect Network. Jamila Mapp. Erica Dickerson. Every Wednesday they drop, so check them out. That's right. It's The Breakfast Club, good morning. Wake that ass up. In the morning.

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And with extended interviews and exclusive weekly headline roundups, this podcast gives you content you won't find anywhere else. Ready to laugh and stay informed? Listen on the iHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. or wherever you get your podcasts. We want to speak out and we want this to stop. Wow, very powerful.

I'm Ellie Flynn, an investigative journalist, and this is my journey deep into the adult entertainment industry. I really wanted to be a playboy, my doll. He was like, I'll take you to the top, I'll make you a star. To expose an alleged predator and the rotten industry he works in. It's honestly so much worse than I had anticipated. We're an army in comparison to him. From Novel, listen to The Bunny Trap

on the iHeartRadio app, Apple podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. The OGs of uncensored motherhood are back and batter than ever. I'm Erica. And I'm Mila. And we're the hosts of the Good Moms Bad Choices podcast, brought to you by the Black Effect Podcast Network

every Wednesday. Yeah, we're moms, but not your mommy. Historically, men talk too much. And women have quietly listened. And all that stops here. If you like witty women, then this is your tribe. Listen to the Good Moms Bad Choices podcast every Wednesday.

On the Black Effect Podcast Network, the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcast, or wherever you go to find your podcast.