The Breakfast Club - INTERVIEW: Governor Wes Moore On The Power Of Policy, Combatting Child Poverty, Riding For Kamala + More

Episode Date: October 10, 2024

The Breakfast Club Sits Down With Governor Wes Moore To Discuss The Power Of Policy, Combatting Child Poverty, And Riding For Kamala. Listen For More!See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

Wake that ass up in the morning. The Breakfast Club. Morning, everybody. It's DJ Envy, Jess Hilarious, Charlamagne Tha Guy. We are The Breakfast Club. Laura LaRosa filling in for Jess. And we had our sister, Miss Angela Rye, with us this morning. And we got a special guest in the building. And we have the governor of Maryland. Ladies and gentlemen, Governor Wes Moore. Welcome, brother. It's good to be back. It's good to be back. Good to see y'all.

How you feeling? I'm blessed. I'm good. I'm feeling, feeling, feeling really good. We're almost there. We got 26 days and back. Good to see y'all. How you feeling? I'm blessed. I'm good. I'm feeling really good. We're almost there. We got 26 days and a wake up to go do something special. How you feeling? How you feeling about the chances of Madam Vice President? Listen, I think this race is going to be close. I think that this race is always going to be close.

This race is going to be close up until Election Day. I think this is a turnout game. And that's why I think that this isn't about, are we swaying people one way or another? It's, are we motivating people to come out in the first place? And you're not finding a team that's working harder right now, both amongst the vice president who has just been, I mean, I think she's just run a fantastic campaign and she's the right candidate. But in addition to that, you have a whole army of surrogates who are out here every single day in all the battleground states,

speaking to our constituents and our jurisdictions and letting people know what's at stake and what we can actually get done if we actually get out there and make our voices heard. You feel like the surrogates got activated too late for the Democratic Party? Because even when President Biden was running, I was saying that, yo, he should be leaning on people like you, leaning on Governor Gretchen Whitmer, leaning on Governor Shapiro, leaning on the VP at the time. Do you feel like the surrogates got activated too late? And if so, why did y'all choose to fall back? You know, I don't know if it was activated too late because, I mean, you know, when I think about myself and Gretchen and Josh and countless others, you know, we've been out there and fighting and advocating at that time for President Biden. But then, you know, we've been out there and fighting and advocating at that time for for President Biden. But then, you know, we're grateful we have such that he has such an extraordinary vice president.

And we're going to have such an extraordinary president come January and vice president Kamala Harris. What do you know? I'm sorry. No, no. I mean, so I mean, I don't I don't know if I would say that things got activated, activated too late, because also I think we have to remember and consistently give grace to the vice president. I mean, she's had a presidential campaign, what, for 10 weeks? Yeah. In 10 weeks, she stood up an entire new campaign. She was able to get all of the delegates and all the delegates she needed. They ran a very successful convention. She had a very successful rollout of a vice president. She's gone through not just her demolishing her debate with Trump, but then also Governor Walz's.

And that's been 10 weeks. So I do think we have to give a little bit of grace to what has actually happened in just a pretty short period of time. I was going to ask, what do you think they need to do more of, right? You know, we talked about, of course, the media blitz that they've been doing this week, talking to more and more people. You know, we felt for a long time that they didn't. And we seen Trump and JD out there like crazy. So what do you think they need to do more to

connect to those people that might be still on the fence of which way they want to go? Well, I think they need to keep doing what they're doing, which is going on and speaking directly to people. You know, I listen, I, you know, I hear people say, well, they need to do more sit down interviews. They need to go and meet the press, they need to do more sit-down interviews. They need to go and meet the press. They need to do this. Respectfully, I mean, I don't know if that's going to move an election, if she needs to go and meet the press more,

or she needs to go and face the nation, or she needs to go on Fox News. Go to the people, because the people are going to be the ones to help determine how this election goes and how people are going to see and receive. And I think the other big thing that we've got to do is I understand that, you know, she's running against someone who is historically and uniquely unqualified and prepared for this role. Right. We're talking about someone who, and let's just take the past 72 hours.

Right. The past 72 hours, we just got reports that he was deciding how much aid to give California during wildfires based on their voting districts. Right. In the past 72 hours, we had him say literally say that Vice President Kamala Harris was born mentally impaired. Right. In the past 72 hours, we have seen how the signature injury of Iraq and Afghanistan. And I'm a very proud veteran of the Afghanistan war. And the signature injury, over 500,000 people who have been diagnosed with traumatic brain injuries. Right? The signature injury. We heard the former president of the United States say, it's nothing more than headaches. Right?

So, I mean. You didn't even mention the Putin stuff. And not even mention the fact that he's got this consistent thing going on with Putin. So my thing is, I don't think we need to spend a whole lot more time talking about the dangers of Donald Trump. Frankly, he tells on himself every single day. I think we have to continually push and articulate the vision for the vice president, which is actually a vision not just that brings us together, but is detailed. When we're talking about things like a $6,000 child tax credit, that could be the most aggressive push that we can make on a federal level

to end child poverty that we have seen in this country. When she's talking about things like increasing capital and liquidity to our small businesses and to our minority-owned businesses, making sure that going from an idea into a large concept and something that you're hiring, hiring tens and thousands of people, can be real for all communities and not just some. These are detailed plans that she's laying out her housing package about how to focus on transit oriented development and how to focus on density bonuses and increasing inventory and turning renters into homeowners. Like these are detailed. These

aren't concepts of a plan. These are detailed plans. And so as long as she continues to do that and for all of us, because all of us are surrogates, we will continue pushing that message as well. And I think that's going to be the message that is going to win the day and not so much focusing on, you know, the dangers of Trump. I think people get that. Let me ask you one more question. You know, a lot of people out there feel like both sides just don't really care that it's all a political game. Right. I don't know. Can you pull up that audio? A gentleman called. This is the perfect way to say it. A guy called today from Florida, Tampa. And he's dealing with the hurricanes. And, you know, he pretty much

was saying, stop playing with me. Can you play it? It don't matter what they is. Democrat, Republican, they all treason, man. They all about money, bro. None of these people care about American people, bro. This shit hurt, bro. This shit hurt, bro. This shit hurt, bro.

People wake up every day just wanna live their life, bro. And you got these fucking green snakes, man. You got these fucking green snakes. Call themselves government service people, bro. And they don't give a damn, bro. They don't give a damn about the migrants coming over here. They using them too, man.

This shit ain't right, man. They're using them too, man. This shit ain't right, man. You're absolutely right, my brother. Now I can't wish God no bite, man. He said he wished God could come back. That's the sentiments we've been hearing a lot from just opening up the phone lines and how people feel about government officials. So what do you

say to those people that really feel like they have no hope where they're saying, I wish God to come back? I mean, they're just listening to him because it's real. We can't forget, man. And when people talk about what's the frustration that people feel, I think for a lot of people it's not a frustration with the vice president, it's not a frustration with the political party,

it's the frustration with the pace of progress in this country. That's right. Period. That's fair. It's just a frustration that it's like every few years we have these conversations and people do not feel that their lives

are improving fast enough, particularly when they're looking at the lives of other people who are improving faster. And so, I mean, when I hear that, it's not just heartbreaking, but I'm listening to this brother, and I'm saying, what he's saying is justified. And listen, I don't come from a political family. I don't come from a political background.

The first elected office I ever ran for was governor. And I literally, I was trying to convince members of my family to vote for me when I ran for governor, like real talk.. And I literally, I was trying to convince members of my family to vote for me when I ran for governor, like real talk. And it wasn't like I was trying to convince them to vote for me. I was trying to convince them to vote. Why didn't they believe in you?

Maybe that's another question. That's a whole other question, Charlamagne. What is this kind of question? Because I know you from being the CEO of the Robin Hood Foundation, so you've always been in the public service but why didn't they believe in you because you've been doing the work if anybody going to harp on your pain it's coming

and laugh at it just laugh at it tell me again how your family don't believe in you let's stop right there for a moment no but it's like I don't know if they believe in the American political system like can you actually make a difference? Got you.

In that seat. You know, we don't, I literally, I have members of my family who I will talk to like, oh yeah, election day was last week, wasn't it? Because people just live in their lives. They're not caught up in all this. And I think there's a few things that I try to remind them. And I'd even say to this, say to, you know, say to this brother who, you know, again, our heart is breaking for them because it is real. The one thing I would say is it is important to remember, even for those who feel like, well, who's sitting in these seats doesn't matter to

me and the political system doesn't involve me and I'm not engaged in it. I would just say, never forget that everything about your life is a policy decision. You know what I mean? From, from the home you woke up in this morning to the water that you're drinking from the tap when you get up in the morning, from the transportation that you have to go to work or for your kids to go to school, for the school your kids are attending,

for the way you are policed, to every aspect of your life is a policy decision someone intentionally made a decision about you and the community you come up in so do not think for a second that this stuff doesn't matter but i i not but i will say to i will say to that brother who um uh and and also to say the amount of misinformation that's coming out right now about what the biden harris administration are doing and not doing it is staggering and it is dangerous because there are people who are in true danger because the misinformation is so clouding the accurate information that people are not getting the services and supports that are there and in place and mobilizing to support them. But, you

know, when I think about why one of the big reasons I'm so all in for the vice president is because I have seen her work. And I've seen her work in difficult times. I've seen her work in crisis. I saw how she was an amazing partner to us in Maryland when the Key Bridge collapsed, when it was hit by a ship the size of three football fields. And the first, you know, I remember at 2.02 in the morning when my phone rang to let me know that a two-mile span bridge was now sitting at the bottom of the Patasko River, that the Port of Baltimore, which really is America's port, I mean, it services two-thirds of this entire country,

was now shut down and around 13% of my state's economy was now gone, that there were thousands of workers who were about to wake up and realize they didn't have a job anymore. And where we had six port workers, six workers on the bridge who were fixing potholes in the middle of the night, who are now missing. And as we're mobilizing, put the state on a state of emergency, having our state police divers in the water to work to save lives, I will never forget one of the early calls that I got. It literally started with three words. Gov, it's Kamala.

And she said, I know you just spoke to the president, and I want to reiterate, we're going to be with you every step of the way. And she has been. And so to the people who are heartbreakingly struggling due to Helene, to the folks in Florida, to the folks who right now are saying, do we have a government that sees us and is mobilizing for us? I can tell you from personal firsthand experience, the answer is yes. And the person who we need sitting in that seat is Kamala Harris. You mentioned that there are a lot of folks, including in your family, who don't get caught up in all this. And one of the things that we've seen is a failed response from FEMA, Katrina, you know, folks worried about how they'll respond to Milton at the time they were recording this. But this isn't the only space where you're engaging and being a surrogate. There's also a tremendous sister in Maryland running for the Senate, Angela Also Brooks.

Oh, yes. Who, if she wins, and Lisa Blunt Rochester wins in Delaware, they'll become the fourth and the fifth ever to serve in the United States Senate in terms of black women. Fourth and fifth in the history of the United States Senate so it's exciting but also is devastating yeah that they would be four and five historically to ever serve as black women and four and five black people in the Senate right now it's certainly not on par with our demographics why is that race so important and what challenges does Angela have yet to break through because it's the interview conversation isn't just about vice president harris that's happening also with with angela i'm so uh angela's spectacular she's gonna make a great senator you know uh about actually a little over a little over a year ago i i endorsed

angela and and i remember people came up to me they're like listen you know in open races say and and because again i was new to politics we were like we're just giving you a little bit of advice in open races generally sitting governors do not get involved in primaries. They don't endorse. And you saw other races around the country where the governor did not endorse in a primary. And they just stayed out and they waited for the primary to be done. And I told him, I was like, listen, I really appreciate your counsel. And I really appreciate your advice. And I'm supporting Angela Ossobrooks's both because she is she is going to be a remarkable senator. Smart, tested. And it's also because this moment was not I could not just sit silent in a moment when I knew everything that was at stake.

That we do know that this is about electing someone who is just uh who is going to be amazing to serve as my state's uh you know senator and my relationship with my senators and my congressional delegation is incredibly important as the governor we have a very tight relationship with them and it's important um but it's also because it does not make sense to want to support kamala harris for the president of the United States and then also say, but I also want a Republican Senate. Because that's exactly what happens if Angela Altshuler-Brooks does not win this race. We now have a Republican Senate who will turn around, led by Mitch McConnell and Tom Cotton and Ted Cruz and all those people who will basically

then turn around and try to block everything that is trying to happen. You can't say that I am for reproductive health and I'm for reproductive rights and the ballot we have in the state of Maryland, question one is to put reproductive health in our state's constitution. You can't say I'm for that and then say, but I want to have a Republican Senate who is then going to put together a national abortion ban and supersede anything that we turn around and pass. And so I was really proud where, you know, she won a very tough primary where, you know, she was down by double digits and pulled together a remarkable win.

But this is going to be a fight, and the fight is worth it. And so for even people who are not in Maryland, I would just ask them, go to check out AngelaAlsabrooks.com and just really learn about this remarkable sister who, you know, and who understands, you know, I became only the third African-American ever elected governor in the history of this country. The only, and the first in my state. But I remember coming in and saying, you know, while I'm proud to be the first, I know that's not the assignment. We got work to do. And I know that both for Angela and also for Lisa,

who again is another one, please check out Lisa Vaughn Rochester. I mean, the Senate is not ready for these two. I can't wait. No, they need to be ready. They need to be ready for these two. They need to be ready for these two. But I'm telling you, they're both spectacular.

But they're also coming in saying, yes, what they're doing is shattering a glass ceiling, but they also know that's not the assignment. Are you concerned about the interest that folks have in the former governor, Larry Hogan, who is also Brooks' opponent in this race? You talked about obstruction. When you think about what he did with the red line in Maryland, returning $900 million to the federal government after President Obama's administration gave that grant to Maryland to shore up job opportunities.

I know you've brought it back in the form of a light rail. Can you talk about why his candidacy would be a problem for Maryland? Yeah, I mean, I seemingly forgot. No, and that's and that's I think for a for a lot of people, that's what's so frustrating about politics for them is is how people can just so easily and freely switch and move positions without any any understanding of justification law right with the exception it's an election season um james baldwin has this quote that i love where he says uh uh i can't believe what you say because i see

what you do right and i think that when we're looking about the old governor that's exactly what we're talking about where you can't tell me that you are now suddenly pro-choice. When you actually were in power, you vetoed legislation around enhancing privacy. You vetoed legislation around enhancing protection. That on my first day of office, I released three and a half million dollars of previously unreleased funds to be able to help train providers so people could actually safely, safely have their reproductive health respected because he wouldn't release that money because of political reasons. You can't tell me that you're now going to focus on public safety and focus on violence when the entire time while you were the governor,

the homicide rate in the state of Maryland nearly doubled. He can't change his mind, though, because people will use that same rhetoric against the vice president. No, no, but there's use that same rhetoric against the vice president. No, no. But I don't know. There's a difference between saying that I've continued to think about these issues and learn about these issues and having fundamental shifts in values. You know, I think about it for myself, right? I am, you know, when I think about what it is that we're getting done in the state of Maryland, I can be flexible on tactics.

But I'm unbendable on values. My values are my values. The things I stand for are the things that I stand for. We're not watching a flexibility on tactics here. We are watching a fundamental difference. You can't, while you're the governor, while the old governor was in there, say, I'm not going to sign legislation around ghost guns and getting these illegal guns out of our neighborhoods and off of our streets. You cannot say that there's a plan that you have to be able to solve the issue of violence of crime when, frankly, for eight years, you gave thoughts and prayers and attended funerals. But passing not a single piece of legislation actually makes our community safer. Since our administration has come on board, Maryland has had amongst the fastest drops in homicides and violent crime in this entire country.

The last time the homicide rate was this low in Baltimore City, I wasn't born yet. Because when we came on board, we were like, no, we're not just doing thoughts and prayers. We're actually going to work in partnership with locals, work in partnership with local law enforcement, having increased technology and predictive analytics, being able to work with community groups and community violence prevention groups, working with the mayor of Baltimore and working with our other local jurisdictions. And we have now seen, and again, I look at these numbers, I mean, I'm a data nerd. I look at these numbers constantly. We're now down 29% this year, year on year, and that's after historic drops from the year before. So we're showing that you can do two things at once. You can both respect people's constitutional

authorities and constitutional belief. You can still respect people in their communities and also making people safer and respecting and being able to reinforce law enforcement. And you don't have to choose between those things. That's something that Angela also Brooks in the case of Maryland, While she was a state's attorney, the violent crime rate in Prince George's County was cut by half while she was a state's attorney. So she has a track record of making us safer. The old governor does not.

There's a lot that he has to account for. And so that's what I mean by, I can't believe what you say because I see what you do, where these track records are coming to light. And that's why I think that people are going to back Angela. When you talk about the track records, I instantly just think about a conversation we were having earlier with the hurricane relief, like the conversations back and forth between Kamala and DeSantis, right? Why isn't it across the board?

Why aren't some things just common sense? Because me, if I'm political and I'm working in the Maryland Baltimore area, crime is the first thing I think of trying to solve. That's common sense. Why don't they do that on these other levels with these other issues? Like, why isn't it just this is what people need. Let's figure it out. You know, why does it why is it so hard? No, it's a great point, because I think one thing I've learned about in this world of governance, it's all about prioritization. What do you what do you hold yourself to account to? And what are the things that you are going to prioritize? And so when we came in, we were very clear, you know, the top

priority for how we're going to do our work is making sure that people feel safer in their communities and in their neighborhoods. And that's why we really took an all of the above approach in the way that we were going to go about this work. But it was centered on one thing, humanity. It was centered on this idea of who is it that we are trying to support? And I know that I have seen that throughout our time as governor. If you never forget who you're fighting for, you won't stop fighting. And you'll continue to come up with ways and making sure that you're centering humanity inside of that work. And so whether you're talking about making sure that kids are safe in their classrooms, whether you're talking about people have a chance to respond when these natural disasters

come on board, whether it's making sure that people have broadband access and that you're having a technological revolution, that you're not just completely leaving people behind, whether it's making sure that you're investing in health care and not just health care in certain parts of the state, but really making sure that every part of your state is getting the healthcare needs that can help them to not just thrive, but also, but also truly grow inside that community. So I think you've got to center your work on humanity and never forget why you've gotten this business in, in the first place.

And I think for a lot of people, that is a real challenge for them. Can we go back to the pre-governor Westmore? Yeah. You know, because, you know, you said you never ran for any office, right? And I knew you from being the CEO of the Robin Hood Foundation. Last time I was here. That's right. So what made you want to run for governor, and what made you feel qualified to run for governor?

Qualified. You know, it's funny, because I remember when I got in the race, there were three statewide elected officials, two cabinet secretaries, one person that was on my board, which made board meetings very awkward. And I remember that was the argument they kept on throwing at me about, you know, well, you know, how's he qualified? And I said, let me explain something. And I said, I'm a kid who, you know, watched my father die in front of me when I was three years old

because he didn't get the health care he needed. I'm a person who had handcuffs on my wrist when I was 11 because I came up in communities that were over-policed, and we knew it, that my mother did not get her first job that gave her benefits until I was 14. And by the way, this is a woman who went on to earn a master's degree. So any conversations about inequitable pay between men and women or the racial wealth gap, it's like, I don't need a white paper to explain that.

Then I'm a person who joined the Army when I was 17. Then I led soldiers in combat. I worked in finance. I ran my own business, sold that business. I then turned around and was CEO of one of the largest poverty-fighting organizations in this country. And my argument to them was, I am never in a Romano belonging. And let's be clear, I'll put my qualifications against any of them. And we ended up winning with more individual votes than anyone who'd ever run for governor in the history of the state of Maryland. And I think about the

thing that really motivated me. And it's funny because we talked a little bit about it last time I was here where um who sits in these seats it does matter and what they prioritize does matter and I remember uh you know one of the issues that I will never I will never um lose an importance of it I do not understand why in this country we allow child poverty I don't get how we're allowing the destiny of our children to be determined before they even have a say. Child poverty starts with adults being poor, right? Well, that's exactly right.

And we can get in that. And so I said, and when I was even working over at Robinhood, I was like, okay, we're going to focus on the issue of the child tax credit. And the big reason, because I thought about over 30 years of philanthropy that Robinhood has done, remarkable work that Robinhood has done, that an adjustment on the child tax credit could literally sixfold, and we're talking billions that Robinhood has done, remarkable work that Robinhood has done, that an adjustment on the child tax credit could literally sixfold every, and we're talking billions that Robinhood has done in its history, an adjustment on the child tax credit, making it fully refundable, paying it out monthly, would actually have more of an impact on child poverty by sixfold than what they've done over 30 years. And so this is the argument that I was pushing about why policy matters. I was speaking with a former governor about this issue and I was trying to explain to him the details of the child tax credit, why this thing was so important. And I literally

told him, I said, you should talk about it in your state of the state. I was like, here's the line you should use. And I got an advanced copy of the state of the state address. And I realized there was nothing in there about the child tax I realized there was nothing in there about the child tax credit. There was nothing in there about child poverty. So I'm pissed, right? So I call up the head of policy at the organization I ran and I'm just ranting. And then finally, when I breathed, he said to me, he said, listen, we've worked for six months to try to get them to include a line in the speech. Well, what if you could write the whole speech? And that's the point.

The reason we have these discrepancies is not just because. These are policies that will allow this to happen. The reason that we had in my state an 8-to-1 racial wealth gap is not because one group is working eight times harder. It's because of the Homestead Act. It's because of unfair appraisal values in historically redlined neighborhoods. And it's because of an unfair usage of the GI Bill.

And it's because of racist procurement policies. So if we understand that policies help to create these dynamics, it has to be policies that have to then unearth them. And so when I gave my first state of the state address, you know, we spent probably a quarter thing talking about child poverty and about how we were going to make the most aggressive and bipartisan push in our state's history to end child poverty. And that's exactly what we've done. And so the big reason why I decided to get into this is if you aren't talking about policy on these issues, then you can do philanthropy all you want. You can do all that until you're blue in the face.

There is not enough philanthropy in the world to upend bad policies. And so policymakers have got to get in the game. And that's why I just said that I'm as qualified as any of them. Okay, man. Let me try. Since writing the book, The Other Wes Moore, being a White House fellow, a Rhodes Scholar, I think folks have always asked you about your political ambitions. Being on the short list as a VP contender,

do you have aspirations to at some point run for president? No. I'm a cut it out, Wes. Yeah, I don't buy it either. And also, why not? That's a better question. I mean, eight years from now? No, it's true.

And listen, I know. I did say at some point. Yeah. No, listen, I know. You probably didn't think you were going to run for governor, too. And that's the point, right? So I know, listen, I'm 45. I mean, I'm one of the youngest governors in the country, right? And I love the work that we're doing in Maryland. Maryland's just moving faster than everybody in the country. If you look at everything

we are doing from advancing economic opportunities to creating pathways for work, wages, and wealth, to removing the barriers that exist for people to go into a workforce, the work we've done around criminal justice reform. I mean, I'm really proud of the work that Maryland is doing. But asking you if you have aspirations at some point to run for president isn't pooh-poohing your work in Maryland. It's saying if you have the approval rating you have right now, which is high, you've garnered the most amount of support than any other governor who's ever ran in your

gubernatorial race why not to lauren's question now well i think so i think for me it's really twofold one is my exclusive focus is on making sure that kamala harris is the next president of the states i can't stress enough how important this is to my state to my community that she is the person who becomes the next president in 2024 but we're saying at some point if we if we know that if she does not win there won't be another election which is what she needs no right i'm saying if we know from the statements of the former president yeah that if he wins there will not be another election that is a quote yeah so we know the importance of her winning we're not i'm not saying that i'm just saying why not yeah lauren said why not well you know and i think i think

from for me and i don't i don't have an answer and honestly it's because i just haven't put enough thought into it so for example um elijah cummings was a uh was like my guy when a mentor of mine congressman from from baltimore um and i remember after he passed um there were people who came up to me and were like listen you know what do you think about running for elijah's seat um he was a mentor of mine and i didn't do it because it's not that i don't love elijah and it's not that i don't want to make sure that his legacy is not honored it just wasn't speaking to me. But when I decided I was running for governor,

you couldn't have convinced me not to run. When they were like, this person's thinking about getting in and this person's the former head of the DNC and this person, I said, good, I look forward to seeing him in the battle. You know what I mean? Because I knew that's what I wanted to do. And no one could have convinced me differently. So I'm very at peace with saying, if I'm not in it, I'm not in it.

And I'm good with that. And I can tell you right now, that's why when I say my focus is really on making sure that Kamala Harris becomes the next president of the United States, like, I mean that. I believe you, but I'm going to tell you something. About 11 years ago, maybe longer, John Sykes, when he introduced me, he said, he said, I want you to meet somebody.

He said, I need you to connect with this brother named Wes Moore. He's going to be the next Barack Obama. That's how you were introduced to me 12 years ago, Wes. So people clearly see that. It's because it feels like you really care about the people. And I don't think it's because you're black either. Yeah, I think it's just your care. And I'm not trying to be the next anybody, let's be clear.

I knew that was coming. But I think at think it's because you're black either. Yeah, I think it's just your care. And I'm not trying to be the next anybody, let's be clear. I knew that was coming. But I think at that point, only having one. People say based on what they know. Like, we know Kamala Harris also isn't going to be the next Barack Obama. She's going to be the first Kamala Harris. That's right. So, yeah, I think we understand. Wes is just like, I don't see it in my cards

right now. But when you do run, maybe four years out of line. Maybe, but right now, I got another phone call. I'm just saying, you should say, I'm not thinking about it right now so they don't run this clip back. I literally was about to say that. I was going to say, when you do run,

you know they're going to bring it back. You be like, well, you're sad. You're sad, you weren't going to do it. And I mean what I say, it's like when I'm locked into something,

I'm locked in, and I'm locked into being the governor of the state of Maryland. And I mean, I am, I look at what we're doing right now. This really is going to be Maryland's decade. This is going to be our time because it's going to time.

We're just going to leave with love and honesty. And I'm really proud of the results we've gotten so far. And I think the people of Maryland are very happy with it. One thing you've done that's great. You pardoned 175,000 Maryland convictions related to the possession of weed. Yeah. Including convictions for misdemeanor possession of weed and certain convictions for misdemeanor possession of drug paraphernalia. What led you to do that?

Well, you know, it's funny. It was something that I I've been talking about long before I ever decided to run for office. I do not understand. There's a few things I just don't get. One is how how cannabis is in the same classification level as heroin. That just makes absolutely no sense. And the other piece was, as we were having this larger movement that was taking place around how people

were just completely not acknowledging history and how cannabis was just consistently used as a cudgel, particularly in black communities. And so cannabis was actually on the ballot in the state of Maryland. In fact, I ended up getting more individual votes that year than anybody else. The only thing that beat me on the ballot that year was cannabis. Cannabis won with 70% of the vote.

So I'm like, yo, who is cannabis now? How is it so popular? He's a rapper. He's a rapper. Shane, when I brought up pardons, and I do want to ask you, this one isn't in your purview per se, but there's a federal pardon that I think many of us are still seeking, and that's for Marilyn Mosby. She submitted a pardon application that included attorneys like Barry Sheck from the Innocence Project, Ben Crump, who's a legendary civil rights attorney, Barbara Armwine, legendary voting rights activist who worked hand in hand with Marilyn. Can you talk about the importance of Joe Biden pardoning her before his tenure is up?

Yeah, you know, and I and I say, I mean, this is this was personal because most of her friends. I know those little girls and say was little girls. And in fact, I remember last time I was on the show, I remember talking about the role that she played in just calming our community, where there's this narrative that was taking place after everything that happened with Freddie Gray, that there were protests, and then on the night of Freddie Gray's funeral, how it became violent, and you had this unrest that took place. And people talk about how the National Guard was called in. People say, well, it's good that the National Guard got called in because that's what calmed everything down. That's actually not true. Because the truth is, they are going to have the biggest protests since that entire thing happened on that Saturday after the National Guard got called in. Militarization does not produce calm. Hearing a community does.

And the reason that there was calm was because Marilyn Mosby came out and actually said that we need to have accountability. And then she pressed charges on the officers. So the thing that I would say about it is this, and again, it's both personal. So I try to separate myself from what the personal is. And I know that this is this, and again, it's both personal, so I try to separate myself from what the personal is. And I know that this is a, it's not a state decision. This is something that falls exclusively in the hands of the President of the United States. I just keep on thinking about these kids. I keep thinking about her and Nick's daughters.

I keep on thinking about the public servants that they have been. And these are two people who have devoted their lives to be able to support the people of Baltimore. Her is a former state's attorney. Him is now the city council president. And I just hope as all these decisions are being made that compassion and grace is just not lost. So you feel Biden should give her a pardon? I can't tell the President of the United States what to do.

I just hope compassion and grace is never lost in the decision-making process. I do want to ask you about a state decision. How come you can't pardon all non-violent marijuana offenses, period, across the board? Well, actually, so if you look at the pardon that we did, and so, yeah, so going back, so what ended up happening was we spent the past year doing what many people believe to be

the most equitable and safe and successful rollout for recreational cannabis in the country. So now in the state of Maryland, we have a new billion dollar industry for cannabis of the, of the new licenses, 174 new social equity licenses are put together. And by the way, over a hundred of them have been new black owners in the cannabis market. So we've really set the standard on what that looks like. But my big thing was this, you cannot celebrate the benefits of legalization. If you do not address the consequences of criminalization, if you do not address the fact that there are thousands, tens of thousands, hundreds of thousands of people whose lives have now been immeasurably changed and altered because of something that is no longer even illegal in our communities anymore.

And so the reason that we led, you know, I ended up pardoning 175,000 cannabis. It's the largest mass pardon in the history of this country. And where I know that we can't be done either when we're thinking about this. In fact, just this past week, you know, I just just excused the the the fees for for people, you know, violation of parole and and drug testing, because, again, it's something that continues to be used as a cudgel to keep people criminalized. And you can't make every sentence a life sentence. And so the reason that we've moved so aggressively on this issue, and now we're going to continue working with the legislature because some of this stuff is gubernatorial authority, like executive orders. Some of this stuff has to get passed through the legislature. So now we're working with our legislative partners to make sure that we can really deal with this issue of long-term expungement, is because it's both about fairness and also it's about economics. I am focused on getting people back into the workforce.

And if you look at what we've done within our state, that we have quadrupled the amount of people in our trade and apprenticeship programs, that we have created the first time in this country that we now have a service year option for all of our high school graduates, giving them a chance to have a year of paid service to the state of Maryland, that we made historic investments in child care, the largest singular investments in child care in our state's history. Because if you really want to get people back into the workforce, particularly young parents, particularly women,

you must fund child care. Because asking people to make a decision between, is my child going to be okay, or am I going to go to work, is not a fair ask. And the big thing about the pardons was it now allowed people to get back into the workforce. One of the people I pardoned that day was a guy named Shiloh, who was standing with me. Shiloh, the only thing on his record is a misdemeanor cannabis conviction. And he now has had an inability to find stable work since. I mean, he literally had a job. He's talking about a job that he had that was a great job for him. He was fired on the second day because he couldn't pass a background check.

This is crazy what we've done to communities. And so I look at this, what we've done around criminal justice reform, what we've done around the pardons, is not just about it's the socially right thing to do. It's the economically smart thing to do. Because if you look at where our state is right now, when I was first inaugurated, Maryland was 43rd in the country in unemployment. Now, going on 13 straight months, Maryland has amongst the lowest unemployment rates in the entire country. Our unemployment right now in Maryland is 2.9%. If you want to create a growing economy, you must create an inclusive economy. And I want more people to have the opportunity to get back into their workforce. I agree, but will it be bigger than

just simple possession? Is there a way to do just nonviolent marijuana offenses period across the board? Absolutely. And these are things that I, and again, part of it's working with the legislature because part of these things you have to actually change laws, and that requires the legislature involved. But I don't think that just doing the, while it was the largest in the country's history, that was also an important first step. Gotcha. But we're not done because you have to create a system. And here's the thing that also, I want to be able to prove that we can do two things at once.

Because when we came on board, people said there's two challenges that Maryland is facing. One, Maryland had this exploding crime rate, homicide rates. Again, like I mentioned before, Baltimore went eight straight years of 300 plus homicides. So like we have to address the violence. And we had to address the fact that Maryland incarcerated more African American men between the ages of 18 and 25 than any place in this country. By the way, number two was Mississippi. Maryland was number one.

And so I said, we've got to be able to address these two things at the same time that we can yes both address the issue of violence and also not think that the answer is just locking up black boys and so I think one thing we've been able to show in our work is yes we can be humane

about the way we deal with things like pardons and expungements and getting people back into a workforce and cutting down on the recidivism rate. Yes, we can also make sure that we are making, have made historic investments in local law enforcement and utilization of technology and making sure that you are getting violent offenders and repeat violent offenders off of our streets. And so addressing these two things at the same time, this argument of locking up more black men is not going to make you safer. And I think the thing that we're showing in the state of Maryland is you can do both of those things, both those two things, address the incarceration rates and make your community safer at the same time. I was going to ask, you know, Governor Westmore, why is it working in Maryland and not in a lot of these other cities and states. So what would you tell some of these other mayors and governors

who are having the same problems you had when you first came in and crime is high and unemployment and people can't find jobs and people are dealing with immigrants and migrants coming over and people are dealing with, you know, they can't afford their homes, can't afford food, can't afford gas. What do you tell those city officials? I would say always lead with data and don't let the politics get in the way of this stuff, man. Because I think part of the problem is people get

caught up in these talking points and these policy issues about like, what does X party think or what does Y party think or this and that? And I would say we have but a certain amount of time in these jobs, right? I know because I have a clock on my desk about how much time I have left in my first term. Don't waste a single one of those days. And so I think the reason that we've been able to get the things done, we've been able to get done is because we leave with data.

You know, the reason that I was unapologetic when I talk about things like how I want Maryland to be the state that ends the racial wealth gap. And people said, well, isn't that a binary choice? And I said, no. But the thing is, is that what we have right now is a binary system. The reason I want Maryland to be a state that ends the racial wealth gap is because I believe in growing the economy. That the racial wealth gap has cost this country $16 trillion in GDP over the past two decades. That's not gross domestic product of a group. I've heard you say that racism is expensive.

It is terribly expensive. And so the reason that I'm saying, so be unapologetic and say it. Talk about the issues of racism and bigotry. Talk about how you're going to address things like a broken and a racist procurement policy. The reason that we have gone, you know, in our state, just since I've been the governor,

we have shifted the way we look at procurement, right just since I've been the governor, we have shifted the way we look at procurement, right? Now we've allocated over two and a half billion dollars towards MBEs and black owned businesses. And it's not because we're showing favoritism, because it's like, we actually believe that's helping to grow the economy. And it is when you're giving more people opportunities, when you stop giving away free waiver processes. And so the thing I would just ask people is lead with data and don't be afraid to be bold. Like go after big problems, because if that's not what you're doing, then why bother? Why are you even sitting in the seat?

Now he has to go in a second. So I know you got I got I got two. No, I'm good. I got I got two that I really, really want to ask. One is Maryland voters just, I saw them approve of your performance in a recent poll, but they were split on the economy. And it bugs me out because why is there a perception that Democrats are not good in regards to the economy when the U.S. economy performs better under a Democratic president? I don't think we talk about it the right way, man.

We really don't. And we excuse it. You know, I don't and and we and we excuse it you know i don't understand when we're having these conversations so for example um we've made historic investments in child care in our state right we made historic investments in apprenticeship and trade programs we made historic investments in getting people back into the workforce we've raised the minimum wage because i just believe deeply that gone should be the days when you have people who are working jobs and in some cases multiple jobs and still living at or below a poverty line. like turning renters into homeowners, focusing on things like unfair appraisal values in historically redline neighborhoods, being able to create capital and liquidity for first-time homebuyers,

and particularly first-time homebuyers, who oftentimes are homebuyers of color inside of communities. And what has happened is this. Unemployment rate has now dropped to historically low levels. We're now watching economic growth, and we're watching green shoots of new industries

that people are actually participating in. And you know what I'm doing? I'm talking about it. I'm talking about the fact that these policies matter, that us being able to create pathways to work and wages and wealth is actually the truest destination. And what we're talking about, what it means to have good policy. You've got to actually talk about it and let the data then speak for itself. But if you're not talking about it and you let other people define your narrative, then yeah, of course things are horrible and it's all the Democrats' fault.

But we're just not going to let that happen. All right, and my last question, I saw you on Face the Nation and I loved what you said. You said that Democrats have to earn the black male vote. Yeah. What does earning that vote look like? It means going out and actually going to seek and speak to it.

You know, you're not going to win this race by great commercials. They're effective, though, if they're great. If they're great. But, I mean, but eventually people are just going to hear this stuff so much, it's going to get drowned out. That's right. And it's like, I will hear a commercial that says one thing, and then literally the next commercial says something that's the absolute opposite. And so

if I'm not a person who's really into this, what am I supposed to take away from that? That's not how you're going to win this race. And I think about it for our race where, you know, I, you know, we did very, very well with young voters and black voters and all that kind of stuff when I ran for governor, but it wasn't because I was black. And it wasn't because I was, you know, now one of the youngest governors in the country. It's because we went and earned it. We actually went to communities and we talked about issues. And we talked about issues that matter and we talked about it in a real way.

We talked about why, you know, when I'm speaking about wealth and wealth creation, that I'm not, and what I'm talking about is, do you have the I'm speaking about wealth and wealth creation, that I'm not, and what I'm talking about is, do you have the ability to own more than you owe? Do you have the ability to pass something off to your children besides debt? That it's the basic asset that you can have something in your life that can give your family a little bit of wiggle room. And, you know, when we talk about housing, I talk about the fact that, you know, I had some, y'all know, I had some issues coming up. And my mother was trying to send me to this military school, you know,

ever since I was like eight. And every year she threatened me. And every year I couldn't go. And it wasn't because she's a woman who makes false threats, because she does not make false threats. She couldn't afford it. And then finally, when I was 11 years old,

sorry, after 11 and then 12, and then finally, when I was 11 years old, sorry, after, after 11 and then 12. And then when I was 13, 14 years old, um, my mother was finally like, I can't do this. And I'm going to send you to this military school. But do you know how she was able to do it? She started asking people inside of her church, if they could help. And people gave a little bit where they could help, whatever like that. but she was still thousands of dollars short my grandparents my grandfather was the first one in my family in my mom's side of the family born in this country born in south carolina and the ku klux klan ran them out moved back to jamaica and much of my family said we will never come back to this country and much of my family is not much of my family's still in jamaica that's

why you said ting earlier yes Yes, sir. He tinged and you caught yourself. You thought he was drinking and driving? Okay. But he did come back. And as he always said, you know, I say, you know, he had a deep Jamaican accent his entire life. And I think he's maybe the most patriotic American I've ever met. He loves this country.

Loved this country. My grandmother, born in Cuba, raised in Jamaica, immigrated to this country loved this country um my grandmother born in cuba raised in jamaica immigrated to this country and when they came to this country he was a minister she was a school teacher and they bought a little small home in the bronx because that was their way of actually owning a piece of this country and when my mother needed help and my mother my mother needed a little extra money they ended up taking money out of their home to then help to pay for that first year of school, which ended up changing the trajectory of my life.

I bring that up for this reason. We're just asking people to give people a little bit of breathing room. We're just asking that we can just give people a little bit of breathing room. We're just asking that we can just give people a little bit of hope and a little something to hold on to and be proud of. And so I think as we are talking about what does it mean to go earn the vote, you're not going to earn the vote by slogans. You're not going to earn the vote by commercials. You're going to go earn the vote by looking people in the eye and saying,

not just why these policies are going to be better and beneficial for you in your life, but it's going to be really good to have a leader who actually sees you. It's going to be really good to have a leader who actually believes in you, who's willing to fight for you, who when the doors are closed and the decisions are being made, that you can say, you know what, she's thinking about me and my family when those doors are closed. And the decisions that she makes are going to be in the best interest of not only now, but the best interest of the future. And so I just think right

now we got a moment where we got a whole lot of people who came before us who are looking at us and asking us, what are you going to do? Are you going to take this moment seriously or not? And I think we got a whole lot of people who are going to come after us, who are looking at us and saying, exhaust yourself,

because my future should matter to you that much. And that's why I think that we're going to do what we got to do because that's the assignment. All right. Well, Governor Westmore for president for 2032, ladies and gentlemen. Governor Westmore, ladies and gentlemen, we appreciate you for joining us. I appreciate y'all. Absolutely.

And, you know, anytime you're in town, pull up on us. You know it. We don't like the Zoom stuff, so you got to pull up on us in person. We understand you're busy, so, you know. Y'all should come down to Annapolis. You should come down to Maryland. We'd love to. Are you related to Jess?

Because Jess' last name is Moore. Jess Hilarious. No, no, I'm not. But she's my cousin in my head. Okay, okay. She's the crazy cousin in your head? She's my crazy cousin in my head. But I tell you what.

Baltimore, we're proud of Jess. Yeah. We're proud of Jess in Baltimore. She'll be back soon. Yeah, yeah. She ruffs us. She ruffs us. Well, it's Governor Wes Moore.

It's The Breakfast Club. Good morning. Wake that ass up. In the morning. The Breakfast Club.