The Breakfast Club - INTERVIEW: James 'JJ'88' Jacobs, Contessa Gayles & Richie Reseda Talk 'Songs From The Hole,' Prison To Purpose

Episode Date: December 1, 2025

Today on the Breakfast Club, James 'JJ'88' Jacobs, Contessa Gayles & Richie Reseda Talk 'Songs From The Hole,' Prison To Purpose. Listen For More!YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@BreakfastClubPower1051FMSee omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

This is an I-Heart podcast. Guaranteed Human. Hey there, Dr. Jesse Mills here. I'm the director of the men's clinic at UCLA, and I want to tell you about my new podcast called The Mailroom. And I'm Jordan, the show's producer. And like most guys, I haven't been to the doctor in way too long. I'll be asking the questions we probably should be asking, but aren't.

Every week, we're breaking down the world of men's health from testosterone and fitness to diets and fertility. We'll talk science without the jargon and get your real answers to the stuff you actually wonder about. So check out the mailroom on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your favorite shows. Podcasters, it's time to get the recognition you deserve. The IHeart Podcast Awards are coming back in 2026. Got a mic?

Then you've got a shot. Every year, we celebrate the most creative, compelling, and game-changing voices in podcasting. Is that you? Submit now at iHeartPodcastawards.com for a chance to be honored on the biggest stage in the industry. Deadline, December 7th. This is your chance. Let's celebrate the power of podcasting and your place in it. Enter now at iHeartPodcastawards.com.

What up, y'all? It's your boy, Kevin on stage. I want to tell you about my new podcast called Not My Best Moment, where I talk to artists, athletes, entertainers, creators, friends, people I admire who had massive success about their massive failures. What did they mess up on? What is their heartbreak? And what did they learn from it?

I got judged horribly. The judges were like, you're trash. I don't know how you got on the show. Check out Not My Best Moment with me kept on stage on the I Heart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, YouTube, or wherever you get your podcasts. On this week's episode of Next Chapter, I, TDJ sit down with Denzel Washington, a two-time Academy Award-winning actor and cultural icon. I don't take any credit for it. I just didn't put me first. I just put God first.

and he's carrying me. Listen to the next chapter podcast on the I Heart Radio app, Apple Podcast, or wherever you get your podcast. New episodes drop weekly. I'm Kristen Davis, host of the podcast, Are You a Charlotte?

The most anticipated guest from season three is here. The Trey to My Charlotte. Kyle McLaughlin joins me to relive all of the magical Trey and Charlotte moments. He reveals what he thinks of Trey giving Charlotte a cardboard baby

and why he chose not to return to end just like that. You listen to Are You a Charlotte on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcast, or wherever you get your podcasts. Hold on. Every day I wake up. Wake your ass up.

The breakfast club. You're all finished or y'all's done? Morning, everybody is DJ Envy. Just hilarious. Sholomey and the guy. We are the breakfast club. Long La Rose is here today. We got some special guests in the building

from the documentary on Netflix songs. to hold. We have James Jacobs, JJ 88. We have Contessa Gales and Richie Recita. Welcome. How you guys feeling? It's on Netflix right now by the way. Yes. How y'all feeling? Great. I'm happy to be here. Now for people that haven't seen the documentary,

break down what the documentary is about. Well, it's a documentary visual album. We tell the story of my life when I was 15. I was incarcerated for second degree murder. And during that time, I spent 18 years in prison And during that time, I wrote an album. I met him.

We produced and recorded that album in prison. And I wrote the visuals. We met Contessa and included his film, essentially. I want to ask you something, A.D., you know, at 15, you committed a crime. It was murder. And three days later, your brother was killed. Yeah. So how did those two events so close together, I guess, shape your sense of identity and ultimately give you purpose, I guess?

Oh, yeah. Well, at first it took me down, like, a really dark, like, mental place. And after coming through, like, you know, suicidal ideations and just, at first I just felt like, at first I just felt kind of purposeless. I took a life which at 15 is kind of hard to hold and really recognize the gravity of it. But by the time I was 18 and in prison, I just kind of felt worth. and without hope and losing my brother within that span was kind of like he was kind of who I was emulating and admiring growing up so it really devastated me and however like through music is like it kind of gave me a place to talk about it and talk about what me and the

homies was just experiencing what me and my family went through and so through I guess through music is where I kind of found purpose in my story and where I could use it. I want to talk about when you was 15, man, because you said something that I often feel like with these kids, and all of us with kids at some point, you make a terrible choice, a temporary decision, you know, at least, I mean, a temporary feeling leads to a permanent decision, you know, do you really understand the consequences of your actions at that time? I mean, not in the way that I do now. When you're 15

You know I mean I think when I was a kid I knew if you shoot someone They could die Like I know that I've seen people die I've seen

Violence in my community But I don't think I knew What it meant for real Like the finality of it At 15 I don't think I knew Truly at 15 The impact it was having

Not only on this person But their family when there's people that I've like got back in touch with since I got home who were you know there that night and had to witness that and that night altered their life and I didn't learn that until I was in my 30s so you you don't at 15 you don't understand the gravity of it but you do understand that it is serious and the older I got the more mature I became the more I understood how serious it is which is why we made this film for real. Now you were charged as an adult not a child? Why was that? Because

California is racist. To put it simple. At 15 serving 18 years it just seems like in any other state you would have been charged as a child and giving a second chance another opportunity on life. Nah, they're doing it in other states too. They charge they charge kids as adults because they want to take away futures. And they have a belief in In this like punishment system, we live in a culture where revenge is normal. We value it as a culture. Revenge is something that we explore. Me being a perpetrator of murder and having my brother murdered is something that I had to face for myself, you know?

So the reason why they charge us as adults when we're kids is because they believe in revenge. They believe in retribution. They believe in eye for an eye. At 15 years old, when you were standing in front of the judge, not really understanding what's happening in your sentence. And the doc, you talk about looking over to your attorney and being like, so when am I going home? Yeah. Right? At that moment, as a kid, what did you need outside of just being locked the way behind bars?

Like, what could they have given you that would have actually, like, in that moment, helped you reform? Do you mean, like, after I've committed murder, like, what to offer a kid? Yeah, like, what should be the, you know, the rehabilitation of a person that is 15? 10 years old that murders a person? I don't know what it should be. I can tell you what I did. What helped me was like just having safe places to talk about it. So I didn't, to talk about what I had done.

I don't think I needed to necessarily be locked away. Once I committed murder, I knew it was foul. I felt the seriousness of it. It wasn't like I was, I wasn't celebrated. by my homies. So I knew that this was not the move to make, but I needed to understand why and I didn't get that opportunity.

In court, they don't give you an opportunity to understand why you are in this moment, how serious it is that you have taken a life and there's no plan to help you mature through it and process it, you know? You said you weren't celebrated. You also talk a lot about how you thought, like, you know, this is kind of like a song.

like we talk about it in the songs the song is over you know so you had an idea of what you thought committing a crime would be like and then you actually found yourself committing the yeah i i i mean that's true for a lot of my homies we listen to music and this is no this is no like condemnation on like hip-hop and the music we grow up on um i think it's just true that when i listen to to music as a kid when i watch films as a kid and i saw violence it didn't seem you know the film cuts off and then I see the nigga on the red carpet excuse me I see him on the red carpet like it's regular you don't really understand that that person in that story didn't come back in real life and so as a

kid I thought you know in 2003 2004 I was listening to get Richard die trying and like that was the epitome of being a gangster and so once I realized after as a kid it's not it ain't you know just a song it like when you go back to your homies they're going to look at you and they're going to be scared of you they're going to look at you and they're going to have real fear like what did you just do the homies asked me what you just do fool what did you do like why did you do that the homie everybody I know who who had a murder in prison like they none of them got dapped up when their homies found out everybody got no for what they might talk about it in in in even like they tell they tell war

story sure but it's like not what not after it happened i don't know nobody who got dapped up directly after like oh we did that let's go them niggas is in that car quiet smoking smoking yeah trying to numb out them niggins is seriously quiet yeah it ain't no game like that's that's what i came to realize that you know you you take a life it ain't it ain't it ain't fun it's not it's not honorable to me um especially in the context of of just regular street like shit contestant and richie how did y'all connect with james to help him tell this story so what what 88 didn't share was that he wrote the music that's in the film in solitary confinement after he got out of solitary he transferred to the prism where richie was at

and that's how they met he could talk about how they collaborated more on the music music. But I met the both of them when I was filming a documentary for CNN. I used to work at CNN. And the last project I did for them was a feature called the Feminist on Cell Block Y. And it was about a group that Ritchie had co-founded in prison and was leading for his fellow incarcerated men where they were reading feminist literature like Bell Hooks and, you know, learning about patriarchy and how it shows up in their lives and unlearning it. So Ritchie was leading that group and 88 was a participant and a co-facilitator of that group. And that was the first time that I heard a little bit of 88's story. And it was the last day of filming that documentary had nothing

to do with the group, but the two of them were in the prison gym. And it was Richie's last day at the prison. He was about to be transferred to finish his sentence somewhere else. And they had the prison rental keyboard and Richie had the keyboard on a trash can and 88 was singing and rapping some of those songs that he wrote in solitary, and there was a group of the guys gathered around, and like, they knew all the lyrics, so you could tell, like, this is, you know, something that they've been sharing. And I was just struck by, like, how powerful the music was, how much storytelling there was in 88's lyrics. But I didn't know the context of, you know, his story and the relationship between that and the music and how he came to the whole and writing that music in

the whole. Fast forward a year after that film came out, um, They both approached me about, you know, would you want to work on a visual album using 88's music? You know, you heard some of it. I was like, send me, send me what you got. And I, once I would like listen to the recordings and really like over the course of our development, got to know more about how 88 came to the whole and then writing the music there and then what they were able to do inside producing a whole album, I knew that we had something really special that could really be a testimony. Like 88 story is a testimony and the music is so

impactful in being able to like hold the narrative and tell his story. So we started collaborating from there and really like evolved our relationship from this like kind of more traditional space of like journalistic. I was the filmmaker. They were the film participants to like co-collaborators on this project and it was a true collaboration. Like 88 was inside the whole time. We were eight months into the edit when he was released and we managed to figure out how to collaborate across the prison walls through phone calls, through letters,

you know, 15 minute phone calls at a time. That's how we met. I got a two-part question for you, 88. You're going to ask Richie how'd he met? Because I know you asked both them, but Richie didn't... Yeah, Richie could fill in more, though, with it. I had met 88 while I was in prison. I had just

released an album from prison, so everybody at the prison kind of knew me as a producer. So in 88, got to the yard, the people who knew him from other prisons were like, you gotta meet 88, you gotta meet 88. And, you know, I wasn't, a lot of, everybody in prison

think they can rap just like everybody on the streets think they can rap. You know what I'm saying? You ain't know where to go and got to do this shit? Yeah, I wasn't, like, in a rush to meet him, necessarily. I was like, okay.

But when I did meet him, we have a homie named Talib who was trying to put together a poetry book. So he was bringing all these artists together and we had met in the law library and I heard him rap and sing and I was blown away honestly

he could both rap and sing very well which a lot of people can't do usually they do one well and then the other they kind of do for fun and the story he was telling and the position he had on it it's not an easy thing to make music that doesn't necessarily glorify or judge the streets

and I was like yo, let's make this album. Y'all had all the equipment in jail? You're able to have the equipment in jail? No, we broke the rules. Okay. The way that we made the album was against the rules. Well, y'all out now, so I said, how do you do it?

But I can't tell you. Because there's people in who still make music that way. But, yeah, the way we made this album in prison was completely against the rules. The prison was against it in every way. They ran up in my cell. They threatened to send me to the hole for making music. and um but it was like they denied me at board for making music really we we we I was able to be a part of a collaboration that um richie was EP in and it featured incarcerated artists and

and free artists and when I got to board they named that it's like a reason why I was a danger to society is that you make music wow yeah it's important to point out he had life he wasn't sentenced to 18 years he was sentenced to 40 years to double life right so you know we didn't know when 88 was coming home we knew spiritually he was coming home but we didn't know when he was coming home so when we finished the album we were like you know typically you finish you do an album then you tour it and we didn't have that opportunity with him so we were like let's do a visual album and that's kind of how this the idea began then we approached contessa and she built it out to to an actual film one other question is it true that you can't profit off of a crime that was done is that true yeah so in california the way that the law is written is that basically basically, you can't take, if you're incarcerated in California, you can't talk about your crime in a way that makes you money. So you can't write a book about it and make money. You can't make music about it or a film or anything and make money. All of that typically has to go to the people who are impacted by about the crime. And 88's case is unique in that his, he didn't, the album

in the film is not about the fact that he harmed somebody, but rather that he had committed harm and he had been harmed that his brother was murdered but we also didn't release it until he got out during your time in solitaire confinement 88 you turned music into

a lifeline right like what was the moment you realized music was an escape for you and I know that probably what kept you saying in the whole yeah as soon as I got in

when I, as soon as I got locked up I knew I grew up with music I grew up in the church I grew up singing I grew up rapping I started like writing in about the seventh grade

So when I got locked up You don't know what the hell to do When you're a kid just in a box Kind of you're just sitting there thinking You're listening in different sounds And suddenly next to me The cell next to me Is the homie we call him Johnny West

Jonathan Marquez He beating on the bed And he rapping But he rapping radio songs Some of his You know he was rapping some of his stuff But mostly he was just rapping songs that we all knew And so I was like

Hey yo I yelled through the van Like, yo, I could, I could rap too. Like, when we come out, we're gonna rap. We get to the day room. He beat on the table. And when I perform, like, these little chicken shit ass, excuse my language, these little, like, you know, raps I wrote in this cell, the, you know, the kids is kind of like, yo, you are.

And it's, like, changing the environment. So when I realized, like, oh, I could impact people around me just by, you know, occupying our time, they're not, like, annoyed. Trying to get away from me, they, like, spit that song. I started to do it more. And then I shared it with my father, who is an elder in the church and doesn't listen to hip-hop. And he's just like, well, you know, son, music brings people joy. So if you share your gift with them and become their joy, they will protect their joy.

And so share your gift with people, and you'll see that. Is that the moment you realize that music can also be your voice? Yeah, I mean, I've always known music was. a medium to like express myself and use my voice it was going to come in some oratory fashion for me my dad being a pastor my mom being a singer i knew like the power of of my voice i just didn't know the significance of it sometimes i still don't but um i didn't know that it could be meaningful to write what's happening in my life to be meaningful that people would actually value it and care about it until I started to see the impact I was having on the yard.

You know, Contessa, there's footage in the dock that shows the time when 88 and his family was still fighting for him to get out of prison. What made you see the value in his story before knowing he'd be freed in it? The value to me was the music itself, and, you know, I think we can share a little bit. I hope folks go watch the film on Netflix, but the whole story is leading up to the moment where 88 realizes that he's incarcerated with the person who killed his brother. Knowing that and what happened after that, maybe that's the part I won't say, but that there was like so much power for healing and transformation if people heard this story to understand that, you know, what we were talking about in terms of like our culture's obsession and reliance

on retribution and punishment and revenge, like we can choose something else in our interpersonal relationships and systemically. So that's what drew me to it. But no, we had no idea that 88 would have the opportunities that he had to come home. Like Ritchie said, he had 40 years to life plus life. And we kind of structured the whole narrative arc of the story around spiritual freedom and like internal healing and freedom. And that's, you know, each music video treatment kind of builds on that healing the younger self. We didn't know that we would have the ending that we would have in the film when we started. And once those opportunities started picking up, so we're following, you know, his family going to court, what's condensed down in the

film was two and a half years of going to court. And then commutation from the governor. We had to follow it in real time because it was so, it was relevant to the story. But it really was never a film about because I think there's a lot of films about incarceration where it's centered on does the person get to come home and do we all get to celebrate at the end if they come home? We wanted to resist that because we really wanted it to feel like everyone watching this had an entry point into their own healing.

So to make it about the spiritual journey was more satisfying for me creatively and I think for all of us spiritually. But then, you know, we got the other ending. The legal reason why I got home is irrelevant because it's not legality

that's going to get us free for the incarcerated and for us as a people I'm on that brother because I like what you're going with this

respond on that like so what I'm saying is like we participate in this system we vote we pay our taxes we do the thing

and it's not working it's not working for nobody so it's It's working for the... A decade ago, I was on the trail of one of the country's most elusive serial killers. But it wasn't until 2023 when he was finally caught. The answers were there, hidden in plain sight.

So why did it take so long to catch him? I'm Josh Zeman, and this is Monster, hunting the Long Island serial killer, the investigation into the most notorious killer in New York, since the son of Sam, available now. Listen for free on the iHeart Radio app, Apple Podcast, wherever you get your podcast. I'm Kristen Davis, host of the podcast, Are You a Charlotte? The most anticipated guest from season three is here, The Trey to My Charlotte.

Kyle McLaughlin joins me to relive all of the magical Trey and Charlotte moments. He reveals what he thinks of Trey giving Charlotte a cardboard baby. Why would I bring her a cardboard baby? I was literally, I was like, this doesn't track for me at all. When he found out Trey's shortcoming, I'm kind of excited at talking about, you know, I think he's a guy spends time in Central Park, you know, he's probably, you know, he'll be some surgery stuff, you know, and I was like, all this kind of stuff going on. And they were like, yeah, yeah, yeah, fine. And they said, but he's impotent. And I was like, he's impotent. And I was impot. They came and presented an idea. And I was like, I get, I see it. It's so kind of a one joke idea. Right. You don't want to miss this. Listen to, are you a Charlotte on the Iheart radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you. get your podcasts. Hi, I'm Dr. Priyank Wally. And I'm Hurricane DeBolu. On our new podcast Health

Stuff, we demystify your burning health questions. You'll hear us being completely honest about her own health. I'm talking about very serious stuff right now, and you're laughing at me. And you'll hear candid advice and personal stories from experts who want to make health care more human. Sometimes you're there to listen, to understand, to empathize, maybe to give them an understanding or a name for what's going on. That helps people a lot. Understanding that it's not just in their head. We are breaking down the science, talking with experts, and sharing practical health tips you can actually use in your day-to-day life. From when to utilize and avoid artificial light to how to sleep better. Everything you need to know about fiber and how to poop better.

How to minimize the effects of jet lag and how to stay hopeful in times of distress. We human beings, all we want is connection. We just want to connect with each other. We want to make health less confusing and maybe even a little fun. Find health stuff on the IHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. The forces shaping the world's economies and financial markets can be hard to spot. Even though they are such a powerful player in finance, you wouldn't really know that you are interacting with them. And even harder to understand. Donald Trump's trade war, 2.0, is only accelerating the process of de-dollarization, which in a way is

jargon four people turning away from the dollar. That is where the big take from Bloomberg podcast comes in to connect the dots. How unusual is a deal like this? Unprecedented. Every weekday afternoon, we dive deep into one big global business story. The biggest story of the reaction of the oil market to the conflict in the Middle East is one of what has not happened. Katie, you told me that ETFs are your favorite thing.

They are. Explain that. Why is that the case? And unpack what it means for you. Our breakfast foods are consistent consumer staples, and so they sort of become outsize indicators of inflation. Listen to the big take from Bloomberg News every weekday afternoon on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. I'm Robert Smith, and this is Jacob Goldstein, and we used to host a show called Planet Money. And now we're back making this new podcast called Business History about the best ideas and people and businesses in history. and some of the worst people, horrible ideas and destructive companies in the history of business.

Having a genius idea without a need for it is nothing. It's like not having it at all. It's a very simple, elegant lesson. Make something people want. First episode, How Southwest Airlines Use Cheap Seats and Free Whiskey to fight its way into the airline business. The Most Texas Story ever. There's a lot of mavericks in that story. We're going to have mavericks on the show. We're going to have plenty of robber barons. many robber barons and you know what they're not all bad and we'll talk about some of the classic great moments of famous business geniuses along with some of the darker moments that often get overlooked like thomas edison and the electric chair listen to business history on the iHeart

radio app apple podcasts or wherever you get your podcast people who set it up that's true it's working for for you know some but it's for for for us the system is working for the people who are designed to work for right um for us it's a different story and so it my logic tell me it ain't going to be that that gave me free no i agree with that i've been i've been running that thought in my mind lately like i think that we're just past the point of any political solutions no you know we need freedom freedom now yeah yeah yeah i was gonna ask you know oh rich you're you about to say something i was just going to quickly say it's it's if you think about it like it's kind of silly to even believe that a system that was also set up by

other flawed human beings is perfect and that just by following the rules or voting or just like following the system that someone else set up that that's all that's needed and when our problems are so great like actually I think it calls upon us to say okay we can look at how this system is an improvement from you know the feudal system in kings and queens and serfs and okay we've improved from there and there is much more improvement that needs to be done if we're going to live in integrity with each other in the earth. I wanted to ask, you know, it's hard not to talk about this because you really want people to see it, right? You want people to see the ins and outs of this documentary.

But I do want to ask about forgiveness, right? I was talking to Lauren earlier, and she was like certain things I just can't forgive, right? She was like, I can't, like, I can't, like, you know, my family can and I can't, and I think Charlemagne knows me. There's certain things I ain't forgiven. It's like, it just is what it is. It's just, how did you find, I was. say, I don't even want to say the courage, but how did you break down and be able to forgive somebody, especially the person that, you know,

killed your brother? How, like, when did that happen? Was it immediately? Did it take some time? Was it talking to your dad who's a pastor? When? Um, it when I met him, I had to make a decision. It is not a superpower. It is not an impossibility to, to, you know, all due respect to the things you say you can't forgive. It's not. I'm just not there. I'll get there one day I'm just not there yet

But truly it's a matter of choosing it It's a matter of saying To me what I This is how I defined forgiveness For myself in that moment You You kill my brother Right

How you get that back How He gone Can't gone What do you owe me now Because that's what we're talking about In retribution In a retaliatory

like system it's like now you owe me so this man jay killed my brother now you owe me what do you owe me you owe me my brother what's the value of my brother's life it ain't even yours it ain't even your life for real your life is valued differently than my brother so i can't just take your life so now i know you can't pay me back so what i'm gonna do be mad my whole life i know you can't give it back i know you can't that's first for forgiveness i know you can't pay that debt So forgiveness to me is releasing within myself what I think you owe me because you hurt me. It's just letting go this idea that you're going to somehow give it back or you're going to somehow realize that you owe it. It has nothing to do with you.

It has everything to do with me letting go of what it is. I think you owe me because you did me sour. Right. Now, add to that, I did somebody file. I did a number of somebody's file throughout my life. and I am not like that's not my legacy that I want to leave it's not something that I want to be like

I want to be known for hurting people nobody wants to be known for hurting people and when you hurt someone as seriously as I have and you want to be accountable for it then you got to look at all the parts of your life but you were accountable if that individual wasn't accountable no no no if he wasn't accountable it don't

Make no difference. It's just a substance. Are you accountable? Are you? Yeah. Question, don't you got to give, you would have to give the person who killed your brother the same grace you would want the people, the family that, you know, you killed to give you, right?

That's true. And I think that was clear for me. But I do not think that that is a requirement for forgiveness, that you have to do an equal harm in order to forgive somebody who was harmed you. because the truth is we all commit harm daily in some form or another. And I think when for me to forgive, I knew I wanted it in my life. I was trying to be as accountable as I could be growing up in prison. But I knew I wanted forgiveness more than I wanted anything because forgiveness

it symbolized being restored back to my community. It symbolized me being restored back to my value that my grandmother sees when she look at me, you know? But I know the more and more I become accountable, it's not, forgiveness isn't something I can ask for. It's not even, I just took everything or I took a lot from you and now I'm going to ask you to give me something else, like give me grace. That's not something I feel willing to ask for. However, what I can do is plant the seed in the universe.

I can plant the seed in my daily walk and in the way I live and maybe it'll come back maybe it'll come to somebody who needs it in my life but either way a friend of mine Chris Wachnick used to always say

sow a seed from your greatest need what you need the most go give it to somebody I just want to stay here for one second 88 because it's such an interesting space how have you navigated the tension between accountability

and self-forgiveness. Again, like, what do I owe? Can I pay back what I owe? Even what I think I owe to myself or, you know, I'm faithful in God that he will forgive me and that he has forgiven me. And to me, that's enough. All I have to do is be honest

about where I was at when I did whatever I did. where I'm at when I do whatever I do. Being accountable is key. Being having integrity to that accountability is the goal. I'm not trying to be like a saint and say like everybody should forgive. And I have the story on how to learn how to forgive. This is like an opportunity for people to discuss if forgiveness is necessary. Do we want a society of forgiveness or do we want one of revenge?

So far we have chosen revenge. where has it gotten us my dad stood up in court and looked at Jay gets sentenced and he was like this does nothing for me this does it did absolutely nothing for my family

that that young man got life in prison nothing nothing they son was still gone and their other stunts still have 40 years to life plus life what did that what could you give my parents besides an opportunity for healing and reconciliation

you know What has the journey been like for your parents now the documentary is out and they can kind of look back and watch it? I know in the documentary, your mom talked about kind of like the guilt that they felt when everything first happened with you and he felt like you were crying out and things of that nature. Like what is it like now for them being able to see it in a documentary? I think I think they're proud that the three of us have found a way to tell our family's story in a way that's like building something and adding value. I guess when you go through it it can sometimes feel like what is all this for

why am I especially for my parents who in my opinion have done all they could do for their children for their lives providing a good life for us and they suffer great loss so I think now when they see it in the film they're incredibly proud of us

in the way that we've been able to like share this story but contestant to answer that yeah I actually just talk to 88's mom yesterday and she was encouraging me that this film is doing what we had hoped it would do out in the world like it is healing people it's allowing people to feel seen and heard that what they went through mattered and I know that that was their experience you know at first they were apprehensive and they were just kind of like listening to their son be like oh we're making this

film but you know he's locked up and me and richie are on the outside coming to their house and starting to do the interview process and spend all this time with them. And I think they were apprehensive at first, but they came to realize, I think, pretty quickly that their story mattered and that their story would reflect a lot of family stories and help a lot of people heal. There's a scene in a doubt when actors are portraying James family and the family of the young man that James killed in the courthouse.

They're both played by the same act. Was that intentional? It was intentional. That choice was really about that family standing in for all families, no matter what side of harm they find themselves on because, you know, 88th story is not unfortunately unique and that you can experience harm and cause harm in the same turn. And so to choose just one set of actors and to place them in all of the different ways that we place them. They actually, they work as multiple families throughout the course of the film.

And that was, that was 88's idea. What do you hope that this film does for young men or women that are in it right now just trying to survive the way that they know how best? Like in the streets, like they trying to just day by day, all they know is survival trying to get through. What do you, if they get a chance to watch this, like what do you want them to stop in their tracks and think at the end of the documentary? I think I would want them to, I hope, I hope that they can see the process that it took to heal. It took community.

It took Richie. It took Contessa. It took my homies in prison that I was around to hold me accountable to who I said I wanted to be. So my advice to them as they watch this film is to think about that and think about who in your life is going to hold you accountable to who you. you say you want to be not you know and not in the way that's going to shame you or guilt you back into doing the right thing or being correct but truly going to be like i remember you said you wanted to do x like how how is that going and checking in with them and and to surround yourself with people who will do that who will hold you accountable to who you say you want to be that that's the way

that's the way out of trying to survive rich you look put uh all your the letters law case your name. Yeah, it's on purpose. I did that. I was inspired by Bell Hooks to do that. I think it's like English is such a egocentric kind of language. And I liked, I think Bell Hooks does it from an anti-capitalist space. Dreamhampton does it similarly. Dreamhampton's one of our EPs and a friend of mine and I seen she do it. It's a dream. Yeah, shout out of dream. He's a genius. Absolutely. He's a better word.

and yeah so I was just inspired to to model after people who I feel like kind of mentored me and I think it has everything to do with what this film is about like we have all committed harm and we have all survived harm and when we have the kind of like this film is not saying everybody has to go forgive that's quote unquote the right thing to do as much as it's saying like, what else is possible besides revenge? I don't know. It's just a let it takes our ego out of being the center of it. What else is possible other than revenge?

Yeah. I think that that is very hard to explore when you probably are dealing with a lot of your own unheeled trauma and a lot of your own pain and a lot of your own hurt. Like I think it takes a lot of a person that's already done some work to even know what that is. What is there other than revenge? Because that's what you think, just naturally, automatically. That's what I think this story is so powerful because it just, and going to the capital letter thing, it's just about humility.

Like knowing that I committed harm puts me in a position that when someone harms me, I'm like, okay, this doesn't feel good, but this person is not different than me. I'm not better than them. I'm not better than nobody. And therefore, the kind of accountability we're talking about in the film and in our community is not who is wrong. and who needs to be punished. It's what happened and what needs to change

so that I can show up the way that I want to show up. And when we have our people hold us accountable to that because we need each other, that's the other thing. The system has convinced us we don't need each other. It's convinced us that as long as you have money, you don't need nobody. That's what makes the police even, quote, unquote,

necessary to begin with, is this idea that we need to be scared with guns to, like, treat each other well. But when we know we need each other, Back when we know we need each other, we don't need to be scared into treating each other well. And when we move from that more humble place, it's not so like, you wronged me and now I need to wrong you

and I'm the good guy and you're the bad guy. It's like, you wronged me as people. I feel, or rather, I feel hurt by you and I know I have hurt other people and what needs to change so that we're not hurting each other. Why is it so hard for men to admit that another man just hurt their feeling? I think men are even more, addicted to this

system. We're like more addicted to the ego-based system because we're like privileged by it. That's why the people who get the most out of it are the ones who are the least likely to let go. For anything. You know, if there's a fucked up situation but you kind of benefit from it, you're probably

more likely to let it keep going on. And this system, this culture also a key element of it is defensiveness. So it's like the more addicted to what you are, the more defensive you are about it. And I think, man, I don't think

it's like in our nature to be like that. But I think it's how we're raised to be in this system for sure. I also think, you know, when a person forgives, when the aggressor forgives, right? Like, the person that can actually do you harm. It's easy to forgive when you're in the weaker position. Like, okay, I got no choice, but forgive me, he'll beat my ass,

right? But when you are the person that could actually do the harm and they forgive, that to me, that's a different level. It's like Gandhi said, we don't choose nonviolence because we're scared. If If my followers were scared, I would tell them go fight. We choose non-violence because we are choosing non-violence. Definitely check out songs from the home.

Contessa, you and Dream, how did you connect with Dream? Because the Dream is very intentional about what she decided to do. How did she decide she wanted to be a part of this? Dream is actually a mentor of Richie. So, you know, Richie was the one who is. She would be hot if we called her a mentor, though. She's a friend. She's a friend.

But she has obviously been in this business a lot longer than I have, and I've learned a lot from her. You're from Detroit? No, I'm from L.A. I met Dream while I was in prison through Patrice. Dream and Patrice knew each other. Patrice Colors knew each other for a long time. And then Patrice connected us

and we started writing while we're in prison while she was working on the R. Kelly stuff. Gotcha. Yeah, so she came on as an EP, as one of the first people, the EP. She had saw Contessa's first film, The Feminist on Sub Block Y, which 88 and I are in as well.

She was talking about kind of following our work, doing integrity work with other men in the prison. And she was a fan of that film. So when I had approached her and be like, do you want to support this film, she was all for it. I just got two more questions. 88, you kept your original prison recorded vocals, right? Yeah, yeah. Why? I mean, that was the voice I used.

We took great risk. We risked our freedom to make those recordings. and that was the album Richie and I wanted to release, so we thought it was important. You probably couldn't recreate that rawness. Yeah, no, no, no, no, no. Yeah, definitely, you can't recreate it. It was a moment in time that was like, you know,

really spiritual, really, really a blessed experience for me, one of the few blessed experiences while I was inside to be able to record that music with Richie. And it just shows how incarcerated people are worthwhile. us in our early 20s in prison making music like the fact that that music is now on Netflix and on streamers and on like vinyl and being heard all over the world

I'd be looking at our stats on the on the distributor platform and seeing people are listening to this music in Brazil and we made it in prison. It's so affirming to me to us but also to other people who are in prison right now like you can be whoever you want to be you don't have to be who they tell you you got to be whether that they be the prison system or the streets

you could be who you want to be not who they tell you got to be. And Contessa, what do you want people to take away from this story? What Ritchie said, I mean, I saw, like, I saw my brothers when I came into the prison. And I also grew up in church, like, 88. And so we really connected on, like, the music, you know, growing up in the church, listening to gospel music, having that type of family. And that's why I connected so deeply to the music because it's also so hip-hop, but it's so spiritual. and I want people to know that healing is possible

and that it can come in different forms and our film I think is an offering in that regard like there's multiple lanes there's multiple portals there's multiple entry points into people finding their healing and that's why I made the film as a label reached out and said they wanted to sign you or not as yet a few couple You're thinking about signing or independent?

I like being independent right now. It's mine. Do what you want to do, how you want to do it when you want to do? Yeah, but, you know, I'll take a call. Okay. Well, there you have it. Songs from the whole, the documentary on Netflix right now. Definitely check it out, and we appreciate you guys for joining you.

Thank y'all for having us truly. James J.J.88 Jacobs, Contessa, Gales, and Richie Small are Reseda. Thank you for me. Wake up. Wake your ass up. The breakfast club. You're on finish or y'all's done? Hey there, Dr. Jesse Mills here. I'm the director of the men's clinic at UCLA,

and I want to tell you about my new podcast called The Mail Room. And I'm Jordan, the show's producer. And like most guys, I haven't been to the doctor in way too long. I'll be asking the questions we probably should be asking, but aren't. Every week, we're breaking down the world of men's health from testosterone and fitness to diets and fertility. We'll talk science without the jargon and get your real answers to the stuff you have.

actually wonder about. So check out the mailroom on the IHeart radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your favorite shows. Podcasters, it's time to get the recognition you deserve. The IHeart Podcast Awards are coming back in 2026. Got a mic? Then you've got a shot. Every year, we celebrate the most creative, compelling, and game-changing voices in podcasting. Is that you? Submit now at iHeart Podcast Awards.com for a chance to be honored on the biggest stage in the industry. Deadline December 7th. This is your chance. Let's celebrate the power of podcasting and your place in it. Enter now at iHeartpodcastawards.com. What up, y'all? It's your boy, Kevin on stage. I want to tell you about my new podcast called Not My Best Moment, where I talk to artists, athletes,

entertainers, creators, friends, people I admire who have had massive success about their massive failures. What did they mess up on? What is their heartbreak? And what did they learn from it? I got judged horribly. The judges were like, you're trash. I don't know how you got on the show. Check out Not My Best Moment with me kept on stage on the I Heart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, YouTube, or wherever you get your podcasts. On this week's episode of Next Chapter,

I, TDJ, sit down with Denzel Washington, a two-time Academy Award-winning actor and cultural icon. I don't take any credit for it. I just didn't put me first. is put God first and he's carried me. Listen to the next chapter podcast on the I Heart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast. New episodes drop weekly. I'm Kristen Davis, host of the podcast, Are You a Charlotte?

The most anticipated guest from season three is here, The Tray to My Charlotte. Kyle McLaughlin joins me to relive all of the magical Trey and Charlotte moments. He reveals what he thinks of Trey giving Charlotte a cardboard baby and why he chose not to return to it just like that. You listen to Are You a Charlotte on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. This is an IHeart podcast. Guaranteed human.