The Breakfast Club - INTERVIEW: Jarrett Adams On Being Wrongfully Convicted, 'Redeeming Justice,' Mental Well-Being, Prison Reform

Episode Date: December 18, 2025

Today on The Breakfast Club, Jarrett Adams On Being Wrongfully Convicted, 'Redeeming Justice,' Mental Well-Being, Prison Reform. Listen For More!YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@BreakfastClubPower1051FMSee omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

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It doesn't matter how much justice we get. None of it's going to get me pregnant. Listen to what happened in Nashville on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Hey, I'm Nora Jones, and I love playing music with people so much that my podcast called Playing Along is back. I sit down with musicians from all musical styles to play songs together in an intimate setting. Every episode's a little different, but it all involves music and conversation with some of my favorite musicians. Over the past two seasons, I've had special

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gentlemen's cut bourbon. Please enjoy responsibly. Hold up. Every day I wake up. The breakfast club. You're all finished or y'all's done? Yep, it's the world's most dangerous morning show, the breakfast club. Shalamin the God, Jess Hylarius, DJ Envy.

Just and DJ Envy on here to day, but L.L. Kulbe, Lauren LaRosa is, and we're talking to a very special brother, man. His name is Jared Adams, okay? He's got a book out called Redeeming Justice, but he is a civil rights attorney and justice reform advocate with an amazing story. Good morning, my brother. Good morning, good morning. Thank you both for having me on here. Thank you for being here. Absolutely. You know, you were wrongfully convicted and spent 10 years in prison for a crime you didn't commit. Yeah. And then you're 17, I believe, right? 17 years old. 17. But you went on to become an attorney.

yourself. Yeah. Not the first to do it, but 17 years old, wrongfully convicted. My conviction being reversed after almost 10 years with the help of the Wisconsin Innocence Project. And the end, it was what I saw inside the prison that really led me on the journey that I'm on right now. So when I get to this maximum security prison, you know, I'm one of the youngest, you know, inmates who's walking around this prison. By the time I'm on my way out, you know, of this prison, I'm looking at mainly 80, 90 percent of the prison is 17, 18 year old men of color. So literally, the prison boom that we talk about right now, that was when I was doing my time and it was just, it was a sight to see. So when I left up out of those doors, I told myself,

not only was I not going to go back, but I'm going to try to do something to keep people from going there and pull out as many brothers and sisters now increasingly that I'm doing as I can. I was thinking, man, when you walk into a courtroom now as a lawyer, what part of that teenage version of you is still present in your mind? The part of it, well, it's two, you know, I would say it's two spirits when I go in there. Number one, I thank God that I'm able to walk in there now, you know, a champion of justice, you know, being able to pull people out. But then also when I go in there, there's a bit of, you know, y'all try to murk me.

You try to take me out. You know what I mean? So I'm walking through swinging arms like George Jefferson in this boy. You know what I mean? Like legitly. So there's a, there's a moment of being proud. There's definitely being humble. But it's a reminder that, man, look, this is all I fight. You understand what I'm saying? There are more families affected now by our system. And we got to find a way to link arms and create a human chain. How do you identify like what clients you choose to take on? Well, that's an interesting question because for a love,

long time, Lauren, I was a sucker for all my son and, you know, my... It's tough. Yeah, because like, anybody behind bars is tough. It is, but then also, like, going through my journey, I went through it with my mama. My mama's single black mother. I go through it with her, and we

became tighter. And so once I got my law degree, and this will help answer the question, too, you know how you got to wait in the mail for the law degree to actually get to the house? So when they get to the house, my mama tell me, I come over there, and I told I want her to keep it. And so she started crying. And I say, well, we ain't crying no more, man.

We're doing good. She said, no, no, I'm not crying because I'm sad. I'm crying because I know you just ain't going to go try to make money. You're going to realize that there are other black males with single parents and they're going to need your help, and you're going to help them, right? So for a long time, I was a sucker for that story. And then I'd get down deep in these cases and realize that it wasn't exactly what it was, but it never disturbed me from, like, perfecting the process of the intake unit that we have right now, right?

I have an organization called Life After Justice where we review these cases and we try to select these cases on the cases that can do a couple different things, right? We always want to see people get out, but also if we can get out and make a change legislatively or some rule that will prevent, those are the cases that we highlight and we want to put at the top of the list. I saw you working on the Bent's Brothers case. Yes. Right. So I know that there's no decision at this point. Well, it is one. Okay. They granted the decision.

And in the Vince case that she saw him out, if you know or don't know, two white brothers from Wisconsin were wrongfully convicted and spent 27 years in prison for the rape and the murder and the kidnapping of a bar, you know, bartender, right? They ended up doing DNA testing, exhuming the body of the person who actually did it and was a serial rapist, and they cleared these men. But when they came home, they came home, past the age of retirement

and literally there's a statute in Wisconsin that no matter how many years you've spent in prison the maximum you will get is $25,000 right so you have to petition of legislators and make an argument and say look this is why they deserve more money they did not make a decision

up until like a month ago about three weeks ago and they agreed to pay these men a million dollars plus the $25,000 and it's something that they desperately need it Yeah, that's, that's amazing. But when you get involved in these cases like this, right, even though you know that there's a wrong because of the way the system is set up.

Yeah. How do you kind of save yourself from like if there is disappointment at the end? Because, you know, 50-50. It's continued therapy. Like I still go to therapy right now to this day, you know, because I have to balance my emotions, no matter what, the tentacles of, when you come in contact with this system that we have in the United States, the tentacles of that contact will always reach you through life.

And the only way you can maintain that balance is with constant therapy. And so I encourage therapy. I do it myself because there are, there are, we take it on the chin a lot. That's right. Lauren. And so we have to find a way to continue to get up off the mat. And we who are off the mat need to find a way to keep extending our palm and pulling people up with us. And that was a historic amount that they were awarded in Wisconsin.

Yeah, yeah, it was. It was, it was an amount where it's been, it's been met before, but like only twice. Right? So they don't necessarily give it out. And right now, there's a, there's a bill on the floor right now to make it, you know, a law that you will get $50,000 a year not having to go through what they went through and hold on and wait and hope. Yeah. I agree with you on therapy. You know, I'm a big, you know, proponent of therapy myself, man. And I always say, you know, healed people. Healed people will help heal people. No doubt. Hurt people will continue to hurt people. Absolutely. And my journey from, listen, my journey through mental health wasn't easy, man. I thought I was going. to a damn fish fry. My mom and aunties was like,

man, baby, look, we need you to like... You're going to see the lady. Yeah, we need you to let it out. You know, we're not, and I think that in our community, we are, we are, we reject it because we think it's a sign of weakness because you're like, oh, man, it's crazy.

You're going to see this and going to see that. But for me, I was on autopilot when I got out because all of my guys, man, they wasn't turning up no more. They had kids. They had careers. So I thought I could work 24 hours a day to catch up for almost a decade

that was taking, and it wasn't mentally healthy for me. So going through that, I'm understanding now that the real, how I look at this when it comes to my mental health is these are moments of decompression. And sometimes, man, you have to go and decompress so that way you can have the right state of mind to respond to all the stresses that the world has to offer each and every day. I got to get you on my, you know, you know, I do the mental welfare. I do. Shaka was telling me about that.

He was like, man, make sure you talk about that so you can get on with that. No, I need you there. Next year we're going to do, I want to do three or four cities next year. So I definitely need you there. But you got a memoir, redeeming justice, right? And the subtitle is from defendant to defender. Yes. What was the hardest chapter to write emotionally?

And what did you learn about yourself when you was putting your story on paper? So it took me three years to write the book. And part of the reason why it took me those three years is because I wanted to read all of the books of people with stories of wrongful conviction because I wanted it to be, honestly, I wanted it to be, and I wanted to be a salute to my mom and my aunts, man, they didn't have to hold me down like that, but they did. So when I write it, and when you look at the book, you think it's a wrongful conviction book,

but if you look at the first opening, it's a dedication to my aunts who, sugar, honey, and pizzas. I'm looking for Chicago. Don't, you know what I'm saying? That's their nicknames, right? And so I sent the shout out to them because, man, they did stuff like keep me alive when I wanted to,

die in that boy. I would get a letter with a verse every day from one of them because they told me, baby, look, we're going to acknowledge that they've incarcerated your body, but we will never let them imprison your mind. And so I wrote this story from a perspective of not just what the person goes through while they're in prison. What does the family go through? Because my mama went from, man, look at this. My mother was a big hat wearing peppermint passing front row church. but when I went through this she got tired of answering the question in Charlemagne what happened to Jared where he at you know what I mean it became hard for her and so I wanted to send a shout out to her and then also continue the pages about what

I'm doing in life right now when you talk about like your mom and your aunt right and you said that they was like you got to go see the lady when you're helping because I mean you get people the justice that they deserve right but a lot of times they don't identify that they have issues that they need to deal with right so Now you're that person in their life. When you're doing that, like, how easy or how hard is it to tell somebody, hey, you need to go get some help. Like, we're going to figure out the job and the stay, but you need to go get some help because you're trying to live your life. It's a difficult conversation, but I can use a story that I just had.

So I got a client in Chicago, a guy by the name of Shaquille Williams. He was wrongfully arrested for a murder that they knew he didn't commit. So we are going through the suit. And one of the toughest things about a civil suit is a deposition. position because you get to you get pepper with questions and so he's being asked these questions that are emotionally triggering to him where you know he lost his mom while he was locked up he now has a wife and he I have to explain to him and encourage him that you have to keep going to therapy because there are situations where when someone gets out of a place like a system

like we have you have to learn how to not treat your wife like you're selling and that's a difficult thing to do and you should never want to do it along So what I try to do is live my life and say, look, what I've done, what I've done to make it more easier for guys to be receptive. These are some hard dudes who think that, you know, they can't show a sign of weakness. So if I'm telling them that I don't went through and did this time and I don't walk the same hard tears you have, but I still revert back to therapy because it is, it has helped me tie my shoes in a race that is life. Ooh. I've heard you say the criminal justice system is rigged. Yeah.

And that justice is for sale. So when you look at the current system, what are the top two or three pressure points that most clearly show you how money and race still determine these outcomes? Look at what we got going on right now, man. Like, just look at what we got going. We have a system that it depends on who you know and what you have, right?

And it will determine your result. We are seeing right now our Justice Department, you know, being used in such a way that is scary, but also being used in a way that we must ask ourselves like, why they weren't doing this for us? You know what I mean? That's the biggest thing. Well, we weren't getting this, right?

So I think that the low-hanging fruit is this. We must find a way to step in where there are clear gaps in our system. And there are wealth gaps that determine a whole lot of the sentences and stuff like that. We need to get as loud as we can for Lakeisha as we do for Bryant. You get what I'm saying? And I think that I really do believe that our way of fixing the system itself, and Angela Ryan, and a lot of other of my colleagues say the same thing, we have to focus in the individual states, right? That's what we have to focus at.

But once we start to work together in these individual states, I think that we must then be able to link arms and start to petition the change that can make it up to the Supreme Court to make that governmental change that will affect the United States and it's all. in its entirety. So in short, what we need to do is the people who are closest to the fire usually know how to put it out, but they're the furzes from the water holes. We need to find a way to feed the water holes to the people who are on the ground, the activist, the people who are going to the courtrooms, the people who can tell you, look, don't vote for this judge, vote for that judge, because this judge will make the change. However, we can go back and make sure that our vote counts, we have to be educated in order to do it, but That is what we have to do in order to start to tinker away at this mighty, mighty system.

I wanted to ask you about this. That's why I got up because the track you're on is I want to stay on this track. What did you think, man? Because this really, really disappointed me. When I saw our good brother, My song. And that's my dog, too, man. On the front page of the New York Post, labeled as a crime boss, because Doran Modani is essentially doing what you're saying people should do.

He's going to get somebody who's been through the system, who's reformed, put them in place on the public safety committee. I don't think there's a better representative to have than somebody like a Mice on. And for him to be demonized like this, how did that make you feel? I mean, look, I felt the tack. I felt the tag with that brother.

And I know him. Like, you know what I'm saying? Me and me and, we just talked about a case I have in New Jersey a few, you know, weeks ago. The case is Rahim and Brian. You can look at it. The kid was shot in the back of the neck.

We got an excessive, you know, force you going. But I was just rotating with that brother. So when I looked at that and I saw it, it came up on my timeline. and I immediately felt attack, you know what I'm saying? Like, as if it was me. And I think we all should have that type of response. And I'll just say this for anyone who's questioning, you know, this move, right?

When we, we just came through the pandemic, right? And we got through the pandemic through vaccines, right? So the vaccines are actually what? The virus that is turned into an antibody, right? And we injected in ourselves as a defense mechanism. If this brother, which I know he will do, with his experience, being in his position, he is a voice that is the closest thing

to the problems that we have to be able to provide us a solution. Why would we not want that? Word up. If we have a president right now who is the president and he's been convicted of something, why can't we have a brother like this

and more sisters like this in positions where they can say, look, I know what it's like, right, to be at home, not had child care, and have to not be able to work so that way they can provide the solution. want us to all come off Medicaid and all these dumbass arguments that you hear about, well, black people

on Snap, they on this, they on that. Well, why don't you put the people who have had the experience and why they had to be on Snap and position to be able to provide solutions so that we could snap the fuck out of here, if that's what you all want to do. Right. It's it. It just bothers me, man, when I see a brother, you know, who went to prison, what, he got convicted of what, 99? 99.

Like 19, 20 years old. He still can't live that down. You've 49. You've been a model citizen since you've been home. soon as something like this happens, you get labeled a crime boss? A crime ball. Is this not liable? I mean, listen, what I would do is this, and I'm offering this for this brother, if you want.

I would strongly send them a letter, you know, and the letter would be a cease and desist, and would also, you know, give the real facts, because that brother ain't never been no crime boss. You understand? But look, let me tell you how scary this is and what they did to him, and this is what this reminded me of. So, we

had the RICO that was made famous by Judy Allen in New York, taking down and tackling the mob problem, right? Shortly after his success in doing that, who do you think became the target of the RICO? Black people. Exactly. Inside the neighborhoods that you and I know

where guys were couch surfing, but all of a sudden, when they got to federal court, they would name to be the federal, you know, a guy who did everything, and they're the king, pin, and all of that to be able to slam, slander us, and continue to keep us in a historical depiction that has hindered black men forever.

That's exactly what I thought about when I saw it. Yeah. Absolutely. It's not switching gears. I guess it's kind of in the same vein. There was a case that I know that you weren't involved in as well, the Waverly case. Yes. I thought we talked about like people not being able to live down with people title you at.

So talk a bit about that case and how those brothers were found not guilty, but still sent in. And then you had to fight like, explain a little bit because when I read it, I'm like, this makes no sense. None at all. do you still have to stick with that the rest of your life? And it's a good outcome to that too so I'm glad you brought that up. And let me also send a shout out

to Temeca Mallory and also my son. That's where I first became in contact with them because they saw my push on that story and they gave me a platform to tell that story at a larger place. Oh, with the Waverly case? I didn't know that.

It helped because we had to get them out on a presidential commutation. So here's what happened in this case. Two brothers were down in Waverly, Virginia. And Waverly, Virginia has a dirty history. They are one of the last known towns to do a public open linching, right? So that's the atmosphere in which these guys are charged with the murder of a police officer.

And, you know, they ain't got no money. Ain't a lot of platforms and stuff down. Ain't a lot of exposure. This is 1998. So they are talked into taking plea deals that should already signal to you all. This some bullshit, right? So they plead to Faron, accessory after the fact, and Terrence pled to a manslaughter charge in this case, even though there was nothing, no evidence at all. But they were basically told by their attorney, look, man, if you get the death penalty, which they were facing, ain't no way out of that.

Even if you did, you know, if you did not. It's 5.23 p.m. One of your kids is asking for a snack. Another is building a fort out of your clean laundry, and you're staring at a half-empty fridge and thinking, what are we even going to eat tonight? Or you could just hello-fresh it. With over 80 recipes to choose from every week, including kid-friendly ones,

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I'm investigative journalist Melissa Jeltson. My new podcast, What Happened in Nashville tells the story of an IVF clinic's catastrophic collapse and the patients who banded together in the chaos that followed. We have some breaking news to tell you about. Tennessee's Attorney General is suing a Nashville doctor. In April 2024, a fertility clinic in Nashville shut down overnight and trapped behind locked doors were more than a thousand frozen embryos. I was terrified. Out of all of our journey, that was the worst moment ever. At that point, it didn't occur to me what fight was going to come to follow. But this story isn't just about a few families' futures. It's about whether the promise of modern fertility care can be trusted at all.

It doesn't matter how much I fight. Doesn't matter how much I cry over all of this. It doesn't matter how much justice we get. None of it's going to get me pregnant. Listen to what happened in Nashville on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Have you ever listened to those true crime shows and found yourself with more questions than answers? And what is this? How is that not a story we all know?

What's this? Where is that? Why is it wet? Boy, do we have a show for you? From Smartless Media, Campside Media, and Big Money Players comes Crimeless. Join me, Josh Dean, investigative journalists. And me, Roy Scoval, comedian, as we celebrate the amazing creativity of the world's dumbest criminals. We'll look into some of the silliest ways folks have broken the laws.

Honestly, it feels more like a high-level prank than a crime. Who catfishes a city? And meets some memorable anti-heroes. There are thousands of angry, horny monkeys. Clap if you think she's a witch. And it freaks you out. He has X-ray vision. How could I not follow him?

Honestly, I got to follow him. He can see right through me. Listen to Crimless on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast. Hey, I'm Nora Jones, and I love playing music with people so much that my podcast called Playing Along is back. I sit down with musicians from all musical styles to play songs together in an intimate setting. Every episode's a little different, but it all involves music and conversation with some of my favorite musicians. Over the past two seasons, I've had special

guests like Dave Grohl, Leveh, Mavis Staples, Remy Wolfe, Jeff Tweedy, really too many to name. And this season, I've sat down with Black Pumas, Alessia Kara, Sarah McLaughlin, and more. Check out my new episode with John Legend. I feel like in a lot of ways our careers are paralleled in some ways, but they just never intersected for some reason. I know. Listen to Nora Jones is playing along on the end of the end of the end. iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Hey, everybody. It's Chuck and Josh from the Stuff You Should Know podcast, and it's that

time of year again, and we knuckle down to do our annual holiday episodes. We collected our best past classic holiday episodes and compiled them into a 12 Days of Christmas toys playlist that the whole family can enjoy. That's right. Maybe you missed it the first time we detailed the history of Beanie Babies, Monopoly, or Yo-Yo's, and a whole lot more. So listen to the 12 Days of Christmas Thomas Toys playlist on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Do it. You can get the death penalty. When people get locked up and go to jail for stuff they didn't do all the time.

So they took these plea deals. When they took the plea deals, they thought they were just going to have to do five years, and the other one had, you know, time released. The fans came around and indicted them as kingpins of being drug dealers. And they said the murder was a result of them being kingpans, right? And they were able to retry them in federal courts. court. They go to federal court. They're found not guilty of the murder of this police officer, but they're found guilty of selling drugs and they were sentenced to life in prison as an

enhancement based on their guilty pleas in state court. So as a result, they're in federal prison for 20 something plus years, not because they're found guilty of killing the officer, but because they pled guilty to save their life and their life was still taken from them. It is one of the most insane stories ever. We went to the last hour of Biden's presidency, and he finally signed a commutation to commute their sentence. They came home, and they've discharged off of their federal papers, and they're released, and we just did an event with them, and we're working on the documentary to tell their story because we're trying to change the law. You should not be able to be found, not guilty, but still sentenced to life based on allegations in other matters. It's ridiculous.

How did y'all get the Biden administration to move? Because they weren't moving on nothing. Man, Charlemagne, when I tell you, the squeaky as we'll get the oil, man. I was squeaky than the motherfucker. I just, I wouldn't stop, man. I went around and thankfully I got the support of some Virginia politicians and legislators, man. We're talking about Tim Kane and a bunch of folks who it took me nine years to get them out. So it wasn't like it was no short thing.

So they knew who I was. And I just think I think it was a matter of me being constant. being persistent and God opening them doors, to be honest with me. Absolutely. How do you determine whether or not a potential client is actually innocent? Sometimes you just got to go through it to find out, man. And I ain't going to lie to you. Look, I haven't been, you know, thousands of dollars in, hours and hours in, only for DNA

results to come back and it wasn't telling me the truth. But let me say this. Man, that can't stop us from sending the elevator back down. That can't keep us from extending our palms, man, because there are some innocent brothers and over-sentence sisters and brothers who deserve our help, they need our help. And so if I get one out of 10, I'll take that one. I mean, that's how important it is to our culture, man,

that we make sure we don't have a bad experience that makes us close the door to everybody. My question for you, when I, at my last job, I used to do these stories. Whenever we would hear about, like, Kim Kardashian, or, like, you know, just any of the attorney she was working with getting involved. Or celebrities in general would speak out

about people needing to be put back in front of a judge because something was done wrong in the legal, system, there would be the other side, the families of these people who thought, okay, I finally have peace, the case is solved, now we can rest, and then this comes back up and it kind of opens up a door back for them, right? How do you as an attorney deal with that? Because you want justice for the people who are wrong in the justice system, but then it's opening up a whole new, like, world of like chaos for this family connected to the person

who was harmed. Here's what we do in our practice and what we do at life after justice. So after we do the full investigation, we presented to the victim's family as well. Because we think they deserve to have full closure, not the closure that they have been forced to get. So that case of Terrence and Farron, I took the complete and total investigation to the family of the officer. And at one point, his daughter was like, look, I had my attorney read this and I'm going to provide you with the letter that says, I want complete and total transparency. I want to know what happened to my father.

That letter went a long way and help it. And so I think that that is a way that you can do it. I think it's deserving, right? Because you're opening up wounds and someone tragically lost their life in situations like that. I think we have to be respectful and mindful of everyone's feelings. I want to talk about, you know, the prison library, right? I read where you started reading case law in the prison library. Yeah.

And helping other guys with their cases. We always hear about that. Yeah. But, and you did that before you ever set foot in the law school classroom. How did that prison law school shape you differently than a traditional legal education? I think what it did for me is, personally, it helped me to better understand my clients and listen also. I mean, I think that as an attorney, I think sometimes, man, we can just be like, I know what I'm doing and stuff like that. I think what it did for me is it made me understand that just as important as it is when in the case, and you also need to personalize yourself.

and learn from your clients and stuff like that. And so I think that I'm sitting across from guys who were, you know, rightfully convicted, wrongfully convicted, and I'm helping them out. And I think what it would help me do was master to become a master class of the client communications that is necessary to be victorious in these tough cases. You know what I think about, and this is, a lot of times I think about even people who are locked up, right, that may actually have done what they did and they need, like, some form of like rehabilitation.

Yeah. Are we ever going to figure out a system that like actually rehabilitates people? But also balances punishment because I do think there is a form of punishment needed. But when it's your family member, you don't feel like that. But realistically, like, it's like the conversation we have around like defund the police and what is actually supposed to mean and what people think we're saying. Yeah. You need police, but you need them to like be human.

Here's a thing. Why can't we just advance? Like we've advanced in technology, man. And we advanced in technology from learning, right? we learned from our mistakes we got better you used to have to you remember the phone with the court man my mama had a 50 extension court we used to walk around the house

we go to the basement and at that phone we've advanced from that so it's like why can't we advance in these things that affect our lives as much as this criminal system does and I'll tell you in my perspective so this is what I think is the problem we have an adversarial system and I don't care if it's a

spitball contest or a pencil popping contest you're going to want to win right when you win this contest I'll give you an example of what I mean by that. I did a study abroad in London because I was trying to get through law school and the only way you can get like a bunch of credits was if you did this study abroad. So I went over there. I spent about four weeks and the assignment was you need to go to their criminal system, see what's there and write a paper on what you think we're work in our system. So when I got there and you sit up in the top, you know, of this thing called the old Bailey

or whatever it is, right? And you look down at the barristers who are both men and women and they're doing these arguments. And I remember this lady, man, she was kicking, man, she was kicking this dude butt up in there, right? With the argument that she had, and it was involving the sense of the subject. It was involving actually a rape case, right? And then I seen her come back like three days later, and now she was actually defending a guy who was accused of a rape with the same passion and the same just vigorous, like, this is my client. What I walked away from with that is, you know,

what, that's how they're able to preserve the sympathy and empathy that is missing out of our system. We just want to win as defense attorneys. We just want to win as prosecutors. And sometimes when that happens, the thing that is lost is justice. I was just going to say it's been like that for like this whole thing and like breaking this whole system. When people had that conversation, I'm like, it's been like this for so many years. Like it's so far beyond us. So like sometimes I I wonder why do we believe that it's going to just be able to change and, like, you'll be able to change, even people's spirit to not want to just win in the case.

Man, we got to get people closer to what is really happening, you know, and that's going to make people want to change. I think that, you know, until Trump was actually prosecuted by the system, you think he had a problem with the system? You know what I mean? No, until he was prosecuted by it, then he had a problem with the system, right? So I think that I still don't think he has a problem

with how it does certain people meaning black and brown people Yeah that's true too But rich and powerful You probably feel like He has been funny Because his privilege Because his privilege

When he encountered his system Is a lot different And a lot of times You got people who create Do these like You know certain collar crimes And they're putting certain facilities White collar

Yeah so different than what we know Like when I have a family member Going to prison It's a different experience So even their close experience Doesn't change How they view things Because it's different for them

It, my opinion, right, it is different for them, but I use something my grandfather used to use, which is, man, you know, look, sometimes people don't understand shit today. She don't in the bottom of their shoe, right? And that's really one of them things where it's like, we need our leaders, and I'm not going to identify and point out on names. We need our leaders, man, to start to make the quick, rapid change

that we're seeing right now with this current administration, man. Like, legitly. I don't. I don't think they had the courage to do it. Even if they get back in position with all the tools at their disposal, I don't think they got the courage. Well, I'll just say this. Listen, don't do the job then.

You know what I mean? Like, if you don't have the courage to do what's necessary, don't do the job. Like, we need y'all. Like, legitimately, man. We need y'all, especially as an attorney in court every day, man. I'm seeing every day how slight changes could change the system. Like, for example, why do public defenders have the budget of a school teacher but the caseload of an entire administration?

It ain't fair. You know what I mean? Like, so why can't we come in and just change that system alone? 90% of the public relies on public defense, like public defenders or different organizations like that. So it's like, man, if you want to change this system, why can't we change the budget to that? If you look at the pod chart in the Department of Justice, we spend the majority of that on what they call policing, right?

That's locking people up. That's building new prisons. We got a small, you can't even see that dot on what they spend on reintegration in mental health care. So it's like, why don't I just start there? And you tell me if it worked. I'll give you another example. We've seen the war on drugs create mass incarceration.

There was billions of dollars that was spent on the war on drugs. Let me see a war on child care. Let me see a war on the school systems in Shirek, where I'm from. Let me see a war on putting them jobs back that are in those areas, replacing those liquor stores with those jobs. And you talk to me in 10 years and you tell me, if that ain't produced a better product. Man, you said something earlier

when you was talking about like the prosecutors, man, it made me think like you stood on both sides, right? The defendant and a defense attorney. What's one thing you wish every prosecutor, judge, and cop had to experience or learn before they're allowed to hold that kind of power over somebody's life? I really wish they can experience a day in prison

in a day with the family members at home who have their loved ones in prison. Right? Because you're talking about astronomical phone calls. Prisoners ain't placed in the city. They had Appalachia somewhere, right? You know what I'm saying? You got to drive out of Clinton correctional. You ever went to Clinton?

I got a couple clients up there, man. You might as well block out your calendar for that day, right? And hope everything work out. So it's like that part of it, in my opinion, is again, they need to experience it just to have that sympathy and empathy, man. everything doesn't require a hammer you understand what I'm saying like and that's that just seems like what happens when you get us in front of one of these systems man we all look like nails to them all right up for people listening man who'll never see the inside of a courtroom beyond jury duty

what's one specific action they can take you know right now to actually moves the needle on wrongful convictions and criminal justice reform and in their own city pay attention man right like Legitly, man. If you're going to be there and you're going to show up. And also, listen, in general, black folks show up the jury duty. Come on, y'all. Like, legitimately, man. Like, we have to show up the jury duty.

Like, you just don't know how many jury pools in the Northern District of Illinois where I'm doing a wrongful conviction case. And I ain't got nothing but one or two of us in there. And then we're trying to get about that, my son. Like, we need y'all, man. We, listen, look, our turn up cannot outweigh our turnout. Like, legitimately. I like that.

So, so for me. Me and my perspective, I like to have a good time, too, man. But, man, when it's time to turn out, we got to turn out. Please show up the jury duty, y'all. Y'all, you just don't know, man, if we get a jury pool that is diverse, right? We now control a lot of the outcomes, man, show up. Show up. If you can be there, be there, right?

I'd be like, man, Shaliman, I'd be trying to get people our eye contact when they be on the jury pool. Like, please don't make no one. Go stand up and say, you got a baby. Like that, come on. But that's what we need because we present the case, but the jury makes a decision. We need black and brown folk. And let me make sure that I'm clarifying that, not just black for black and brown folk. Because we ain't the minority if we link up.

You know what I'm saying? So that's what we need. Show up the jury duty. That's it. And then pay attention in that. Take notes and stuff like that. Be active in your participation because what your vote counts for right there in that moment is critical to the lives of a lot of my clients and a lot of lawyers' clients.

What gives you hope that meaningful justice reform is actually possible? Man, the cases, man. I just look at the cases, and I also am just a person who wants to be hopeful. I have to be, right? Going through what I went through, man, I'm a prayerful person. I'm a hopeful person. And I also get an opportunity to look at the babies that we have that are coming up right now, man. And I'm afraid, y'all.

I don't even lie. You know, when I'm looking to talk to these mothers and fathers in these courtrooms, I believe that it's desensitized in our babies to believe that the criminal system is just a part of our lives and some kids never experienced that only in the movie. And I, you know, I give you another example

of people ask me, man, what's the toughest thing you ever seen in prison? They expect me to say a knife fight or something like that. I mean, I tell you the toughest thing that I've seen in this prison. So I'm playing ball on the first couple of years that I get to Green Bay Correctional. And Green Bay Correctional in Wisconsin

was, is it, is a, It's a tough place, okay? And right now, they are stabbing each other up and there, and it doesn't make any sense what's going on with the violence. So I'm passing time about playing basketball, and, you know, everybody picking their squad, everybody got a nickname. And I'm hearing, you know, these guys on the other team,

and they're like, G, pops, old man, and G-son, right? I'm just thinking, like, they're all from the same block. You know what I'm saying? I ain't know, I ain't know at all. It wasn't until I got in the visiting room. and I was visiting my mama came up to see me from Chicago and I'm in a visiting room and I didn't realize man this was three generations man this was a grandfather

a father and his son but what really messed me up was three two women came to see him with three kids and there was a little girl with him and man the little girl came through the medical detective and raised the armor to be wanded because she was looking at her mama and grandmama be wounded coming to the prison. And you don't want the kids, anything like that, man. Like, you know, you, this is a baby.

What, what's she doing at three, four years old knowing that she's supposed to stick her arms up in the air? And so I said, man, look, we got to address this. We need to implement inside our schools of psychology sections that address specifically people who encounter the system, whether it be family members or whether it be people who are there in order to make some real, real, real change. That is the thing that I will never forget, and that happened almost 20-some years ago, but I never forget it. Can you talk about the importance of pro bono work? Oh, look.

Because I know, like, that's a part of the reason why, even with your situation, right? Yes, an Innocence Project got me out. It's important that we donate to the right organizations that are doing the work on the ground. And look, man, it's tough. You understand what I'm saying? There's a lot of organizations, a lot of people doing the same work, but we, our system, there are people once you get convicted. You on your own, as a matter of fact, not people.

Everybody, once you get convicted and that first appeal is over with, you're on your own, right? So there are people who will never have an opportunity to present their case of innocence, not because they're not innocent, but because there's no money around to do it. So we have to donate to organizations like my organization, Life After Justice, people who are doing the work and taking on cases pro bono to be in. able to really get them the help that they need. We have to do this, right?

Because there are no, the cavalry ain't coming. We, the cavalry are. We got to save ourselves. That's it. That's it. Listen, man, Jared Adams, his book, redeeming justice from defendant to defender. My fight for equity on both sides of a broken system

is available everywhere. You buy books now. Man, thank you, man. How can we continue to support your work? I know life after justice. What's the website? But also, the website is It's Jared Adamslaw.com. Life afterjustice.org is the website. And y'all can support by sharing the story, man. Like, honestly, Shalemay, listen,

if we're going to have a donkey of the day, let's do a king or queen of the day. You know what I'm saying? Straight up. Man, I love y'all. Thank y'all for asking you on. This is us crowning you right now. I appreciate you, bro.

I really do, man. Yes, sir. I really do. It's Jared Adams. It's the Breakfast Club. On up. Every day I wake up. Wake your ass up.

The breakfast club. You're on finish or y'all done? I'm investigative journalist Melissa Jeltson. My new podcast, What Happened in Nashville, tells the story of an IVF clinic's catastrophic collapse and the patients who banded together in the chaos that followed. It doesn't matter how much I fight, doesn't matter how much I cry over all of this,

it doesn't matter how much justice we get. None of it's going to get me pregnant. Listen to what happened in Nashville on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Hey, everybody, it's Chuck and Josh from the Stuff You Should Know podcast, and it's that time of year again when we knuckle down to do our annual holiday episodes. We collected our best past classic holiday episodes and compiled them into a 12 Days of Christmas Toys playlist that the whole family can enjoy. That's right. Maybe you missed it the first time we detailed the history of Beanie Babies, Monopoly, or Yo-Yo's, and a whole lot more.

So listen to the 12 Days of Christmas Toys playlist on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Hey, I'm Nora Jones, and I love playing music with people so much that my podcast called Playing Along is back. I sit down with musicians from all musical styles to play songs together in an intimate setting. Every episode's a little different, but it all involves music and conversation with some of my favorite musicians. Over the past two seasons, I've had special guests like Dave Grohl, Lave, Mavis Staples, Remy Wolfe, Jeff Tweedy, really too many to name. And this season, I've sat down with Black Pumas, Alessia Kara, Sarah McLaughlin, and more.

Check out my new episode with John Legend. I feel like in a lot of ways our careers are paralleled in some ways, but they just never intersected for some reason. I know. We should take it slow with just ordinary people. We don't know which way you go. Listen to Nora Jones is playing along on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

Who would you call if the unthinkable happened? My sister was shot 22 times. A police officer, right? But what do you do when the monster is the man in blue? This dude is the devil. He'll hurt you. This is the story of a detective who thought he was above the law until we came together to take him down. I said, you're going to see my face till the day that you die.

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