The Breakfast Club - INTERVIEW: Jemele Hill Talks Memoir, Colin Kaepernick, Jada Pinkett, Race Norming In The NFL +More

Episode Date: October 12, 2023

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We got a special guest in the building. Yes, indeed. Jamil Hill. Welcome back. Hey. You know I always love to sit with y'all. Enjoy the conversations. That's right.

And the paperback is out right now. It is. Yeah. Congratulations. My baby has grown up a little bit. It's now a toddler, I guess. So a year ago, the hardcover of my memoir, Uphill, came out and now the paperback. How was the response to putting out a memoir? You know, in memoirs, you put out so much information, you reveal things you probably never told anybody. Yeah. Not just from the general public, but from like your family and stuff.

The response was generally good. It was mostly positive. There was somebody in my family who took issue with it. And that created some tension. And the tension is still there, unfortunately. And so, you know, I'm still processing that part. Did you not have a conversation before? No. I mean, it was, I was, I didn't think, we did have a conversation before,

but I just didn't think, I didn't think how they reacted to it would be the way they reacted. And they took it to Facebook as opposed to taking it to me. That's usually how it happens nowadays. Yeah, and then they aired out stuff that was not even in the book. And it was like, why you, why? And probably stuff that wasn't true. Yeah, some of it was definitely, I looked at very skeptically. And it wasn't about me.

It was about my mom, to be candid. And so I was not, I was not happy that that was the course of action that they chose. And so it caused a fracture in our relationship. Oh, I know the feeling. After I put out my first book, it was the same thing. And family members, oh, I can't write a book, but I can go to Facebook. Right, exactly. You know, and especially it's not like this person couldn't have called me.

Like they could have, and we could have had a conversation about it. And I guess the surprising part, they didn't take issue of what was written as in terms of like it not being true. The issue was when we finally did have that discussion was that they weren't in it enough. Oh. So that really. So they wanted their side out there. Yeah. Or they just felt like they should have been, you know, that their role in my life should have been more highlighted or more. And I thought I did a pretty good job of it as it was. But apparently it was not on par with this person.

And so, yeah. Was their role in your life as big as they actually thought it was? Well, I mean, I guess if you want me to say what it is, because I see who you're getting to. But it was my father who had an issue. Oh. Yeah. So it was my father who had an issue. Oh, yeah. So it was my father had an issue with some of the things that were in the book, not necessarily because they were untrue,

but he felt like he should have been more prominently featured in the book. That was what I got from it. And so I didn't, you know, that didn't, it wasn't, it was a very difficult conversation to have. And so those conversations have been somewhat ongoing. And I told him I needed to kind of press pause because I need to process what you said to me because I didn't I took a lot of issue with it. So no rewrites for the paperback? No rewrites for the paperback.

So no, I was like, I took issue with it. But it's all good because everybody's not going to love, you know, what you write. Like, it is funny we're having this conversation because obviously in the news is Jada Pinkett Smith. Oh, my God. Her memoir is coming out. And Jada and I, when I did Red Table Talk this time last year and I was telling her and sharing my experience, she was writing it then. And I was like, you know, I don't know what the reaction is going to be. It just kind of is what it is.

And so to see a year later how people are responding to some of the things that she has decided to share is like, you know, this is her story. She's allowed to tell what that is. I agree with that. But, and I was saying this this morning on the radio, what is the point of constantly sharing this with us? Because it always looks like you're beating up on Will. Why does everybody think Will is the victim?

That's what I want to know. Because Will isn't saying anything. Well, just because he's saying, like, I think, because it was funny reading the reaction, because I don't know what's happening inside their marriage, right? Exactly. None of us do, right? None of us know, okay?

But at least from, because when I did Red Table Talk last year, Will popped, he popped up and talked to him. He was great. Like, and it's clear that they still have, just because they're separated doesn't mean there's not affection there. That doesn't mean that there's not respect there. There's not love there. There's not love there. Like, I think that was kind of obvious in

the interview clips that I've seen so far is that this is the path that they have chosen. But I think it's a path they mutually chose. And so I guess the narrative that I reject, even though, again, I don't know the inside of their marriage, is this idea that Will is a hostage in this. And I'm like, I don't think he's a hostage.

I think he's okay with where they are. Right? And maybe to your point, Char, is like maybe we shouldn't know this all publicly. I agree. But think about the reason we do know it publicly. The whole entanglement thing happened because somebody else

was talking. August told, okay? Do I have this chronology right? They responded to something else that was told. So it's not like she came out of nowhere and was like, hey, by the way guys, there was something that happened between me and August Alsina. That man said what it was. love august salute to august yeah like i don't have august

what august did with angela yee was nowhere near as big as the red table talk no it's not but she was responding but this is the thing too like this is what we said yesterday you know sometimes we look at celebrities relationships and everybody thinks everybody's relationship is perfect right so i think it's great sometimes when you say hey my relationship ain't perfect right like just because you see this doesn't mean we don't have the same problems that you do the same disagreements the same arguments so when you see a little bit of that i'm sure there's somebody in a life just like them to be like damn me and my husband is separated or me and my wife's been separated for this amount of time and we're dealing with it and we thought it was odd. We never wanted to share.

We never wanted to tell somebody. But if it looks, quote unquote, normal, whatever normal is, it gives me the ability to talk about it. Because you and your wife have been very candid about some of the ups and downs you faced in your relationship because people, you know, people need to know sometimes that like what you see on Instagram is not what this what this is. And so I don't think it was at a point where maybe this is some information she didn't feel like should stay buried. Because, look, she's part of her brand now is that is divulging these uncomfortable truths and talking about them.

It is her story. She has the right to say it. So I just I guess I'm just really surprised that people sort of characterize this that that will is somehow in this marriage against his will and jada's the villain and she's the one that is making him do all this stuff and i was like that man is grown okay yeah i don't disagree with that it's just that when you hear like i never wanted to marry will i cried at the wedding now it's we've been separated that sounds like that does jada why are you doing that why you got the man sitting there then red table talking about the entire when you clear he don't want to be like why is this that's not like that's that's all because i love both of them i call

myself a pinkett smith winfrey knows carter so i'm just sitting back like why is this happening like that's all i'd be wanting to know why well you know i i will say a little crazy with with every i know that people look at it is like her honesty is maybe hurting him and making this worse than it is. It's like, okay, she's being so honest to the point where you wonder, like, all right, did you have to pour it on that thing? But I think it just feels like that this is sort of the ebb and flow of their relationship and we're kind of witnessing it. And maybe it's not what we picture because they have been held in such high esteem they have been relationship goals for so many people for so long but i'm like y'all don't know what's happening behind closed doors y'all do not know these people all right and i just i don't think will is being victimized and i understand why some people take

issue with her level of honesty saying like does all this need to be said but I don't think Will is like some kind of victim. I'm sure Will knew it was coming out before. I'm sure they had to have a conversation. The first day he seen it was on Red Table Talk and she was like I cried before I married you. I'm sure they had these conversations because they had to work on their relationship right? I don't know man. I mean I

don't know. That's my point. I don't know. I can't even speculate. You want to say Will blink if you need to come out? Right. That's how you treat them. Like that man is okay. I don't think it That's my point. I don't know. I can't even speculate. You want to say, well, blink if you need to come out? Right. That's how you're treating him. It's like, yeah, that man is okay. Yeah, he's fine. I don't think it's that. Like I said, I just don't think the general public needs to know everything. I think that's what I do miss about celebrity.

I want people to go back to being mysterious. Mysterious. Yeah, I know. That's why I love Sade. Like, we don't know if this woman is real or not. She could be a hologram. I have no idea. That's right. But she just pop up about 15 years. Might have an album real or not. She could be a hologram. I have no idea. But she just popped up about 15 years.

Might have an album, might not. She do the same two steps. And I love this woman. I don't even know what she sounds like anymore. And by the way, we don't even care. She never gave us nothing. Nobody in her business. At all.

She living her best life somewhere. Shout out to Sade. Now, what do you think a second Jemele Hill book would be about? Well, there will be another Jemele Hill book. And it is much like this memoir of something I didn't expect to write. But the second book will be a children's book. Yeah, so I'm writing a children's book. And it will cover some parts of uphill, like just kind of, you know,

how I was able to overcome some adversity and, you know, some of the more positive career stuff, like some of that will be part of it. But generally speaking, it will be sort of like my love letter to a lot of the women whose stories haven't been told, a lot of the women who I've admired. And so it'll, I'm really looking forward to it. I've never written for a children's audience before, so this will be quite a challenge. It'll be the opposite almost from a memoir because you're pouring everything into this book, and you know it's like 250-300 pages in a children's book you have to be quite concise, and you have to make sure that they understand the general themes that you're trying to...

What is it gonna be about? Do you know yet? Yeah, I mean it'll be a combination of my story and the stories of women who um whose stories need to be told and you know women i've admired so yeah some of them famous some of not as famous as others i mean i'm trying to like really unearth and tell the stories of some women who probably didn't get the flowers that they deserved gotcha yeah no we just had a offset up here and you had some uh words about his interview with how you pronounce his name? Bobby Althoff. Althoff. Althoff.

Althoff. Althoff. The podcaster. And you said you feel like this is erasing real hip hop journalism. Yeah, I do. I mean, listen, I admit I'm spoiled. It's like when hip hop was really coming into its own and growing, you know, that's when you had Vibe, you had Kevin Powell and Dream Hampton and Danielle Smith.

And there was like a real hip hop journalism sort of movement there that covered the culture, that covered these artists, tried to tell the full 360 dimensions of their stories. And as you know, you know, mainstream media wasn't messing with hip hop like that. They weren't telling these stories. And so now it's just interesting to me the platforms they wind up on. Like, look at Sexy Red. Like, why was she on that podcast? For what? You know, with Theo Vaughn.

With Theo Vaughn. Does that seem like the type of podcast that you would expect Sexy Red to be on? Probably not. I don't know, because Theo Vaughn's interesting. Yeah, he is. Because he had Sonny Marco on there one time,

and he was talking about how sexy I was. That's all Charlamagne cares about. The fact that that man called you sexy, that's all Charlamagne cares about. Wait, who called you sexy? Theo Vaughn. Oh, really? He did. It was like a whole five-minute thing when he was talking about how beautiful I am. Not blushing. that man called him sexy that's all wait who called you sexy oh really yeah he did it was

like a whole five he's been blushing not blushing i think he was a beautiful man he was like i'm like look at him i'm brushing now look at his face compliment is a compliment i was glad i was like wow not blushing he's so silly take him on a date he take him on a date. He said, I got lady features. I promise you. That's what he was saying. Look, he remembers every last detail. I do. I do. I don't know what Theo's angle is, is what I'm saying.

Yeah. I mean, he's had an eclectic group of guests. So I guess maybe from that standpoint, you could say that she fits. But it's just, when I watch that interaction, and I get it. I know what her shtick is. A lot of it, as many people say, like she clearly borrowed some of this from Funny Marco, who I actually think does it pretty well. He does.

Yeah, like he has, he's got a good thing going. And her, I guess looking at her rise, it was kind of curious to me. Like her podcast has not been in existence for that long. I think the way the story was told was like Drake saw her on. On TikTok, I think. Yeah, on TikTok, but she was with Funny Marco. I think that way the story was told was like Drake saw her on TikTok, I think. Yeah, on TikTok, but she was with Funny Marco. I think that's the interview that he saw. At least that's sort

of what's been reported and out there. And then he just up and decided, you know, hey, I'm just going on this random podcast, which he has every right to do. But when I look about who are the caretakers of hip hop, the caretakers of how this culture is covered, it's us, you know, for the most part.

That's not to say that Offset can't do interviews with people outside the culture. But I notice how those interviews are received and for that matter, how they're treated on those interviews. And it makes me concerned overall. And, yeah, you know, honestly, I know a lot, a ton of black journalists who could go, who could use that kind of boost and to me especially given we see the danger of when our stories aren't told and they're trying to erase our stories in real time it just I would like to see artists like him artists like Drake other black artists in general be more intentional about the type of media that they try to do right like that's why Breakfast Club has the the status and the stature that it does because this is a place that has been established for the culture and it would be nice if some of

these artists understood that there's something larger at play than just going viral no i agree i agree with you because i feel like you know if you think about an artist like drake or or i would never come or yadi or any of. I mean, you know what I'm saying? You ain't been easy on my man. Dealing with you, I mean, obviously. That's a choice, right? Like, why would I go in here and deal with that on a random Wednesday? Well, maybe not you, but I agree.

But you give somebody an opportunity that is not from the culture, that probably does not care about the culture, and there's a lot of black journalists that are coming from all these different spaces that would die for an interview like that, that you could really make their career. Yeah. You know what I mean? So you'd rather see Drake with Funny Marco.

If he was going to do an interview like that, you'd rather see him do it with Funny Marco. And especially because it was kind of Funny Marco's thing. Absolutely. And so that would have made, you know, kind of more sense. And even if you look at, you know, I know he's a friend of the show, Roland Martin. Like, Roland Martin has one of the few black-owned media platforms there are. Like, they're practically non-existent. So that, to me, should be a platform that black celebrities and entertainers and musicians intentionally try to go on understanding what the landscape looks like.

I mean— Do they look at Roland in that way? Do they look at Roland as the person that would talk to them? Well, I know Roland has had a lot of entertainers, like, on his show before. And I get it from a political ramp, just using him as an example. But when you look at how black media voices, the dearth of them that are out there, thankfully there's this. Of course you have other shows.

Angie Martinez. Angie, Angela Yee. There are other platforms, but I feel like they should be very intentional about the places that they go. Because what happens is the situations that you see with Sexy Red, that's what happens. This feels like brown sugar. Because, you know, it's like we know what hip hop is and what we want it to be. But when it gets so big, like we're going to have to share our artists with other people.

So, yes, I think they can do both. Yeah, I think they can do both. I guess what sometimes what does bother me is that knowing some of the teams behind some of them. And like you said, like if you're Drake, why would you come on Breakfast Club? Because, you know, he knows that you've had critical questions that you've asked about him and critical conversations. And their team, they don't ever want them to face any challenges

in terms of interviewing. And I think that is why a lot of celebrities now think their interviews should be softball interviews and they think that the people that are sitting across from them should try to promote them or be part of their their brand you know like Deion Sanders after he won that the first game and he was like do you buy in well it's not the media's job to buy in it's the job to cover what we see and to like ask critical questions of like what's happening here and a lot of publicity teams they do not want their artists in the possible position to where they have to actually answer a real question it doesn't have to be combative but there are things that they should be made to answer absolutely as part of their responsibility to the culture

now recently Colin Kaepernick wrote a letter to J Jets. You were in support of that. Talk about it. Yep. So as you guys know, there's like so many false narratives out there about him. One, you know, people, whenever his name comes up, they start running away with these things that they've supposedly heard or supposedly have been reported that haven't been. He's never been offered any money. He's never been offered a contract by another team since he left the 49ers. So this idea that Colin Wood is asking for all kinds of money or that he said he only wants to be a starter, that he never wants to be a backup, none of that was ever true.

And I think the one benefit to people seeing that letter is knowing how earnest and committed that he is. He just asked to run the practice squad. He said in the letter, I know you're trying to prepare Zach Wilson to be the starter this season. I'm fine with that. I'm here to support that. I'll just run a practice squad.

And for those of you who don't know about the practice squad, every NFL team has one. And these are fringe NFL players. He could run a practice squad in a minute. I mean, it's frankly, given his skill level and where he was in the game, it's something that would probably be beneath him in terms of skill set but he is willing to do that just to show how much he wants to still um keep his NFL dream alive so I was glad that the letter came out so people could see what his true intentions are and frankly always have been I didn't like it for exactly what you just said why is that it's beneath him like he's Colin Kaepernick. You have grown to be this figure that people look to with reverence. We love what you stood for or kneeled for. And it's just like, I don't want to see you leave them with an excuse. Like they can't say, oh, he was unwilling to be on a practice squad and he was unwilling to do, you know, something that would be considered like very entry level work.

They can't say that because that those are narratives that the NFL has, you know, secretly tried to float out there to try to undermine his credibility. It's like, oh, well, if he really loved playing professional football, then he would lower himself and take this entry-level job. And he's like, yeah, yeah, I would. So now what's your excuse? All right, you said I couldn't throw.

You said I was washed up. Okay, the Raiders said I had a great workout. What's your excuse? So this shifts it back to them. So what is your excuse? I don't think anybody believes that, though.

I think we know why Colin Kaepernick is not in the NFL. I think they're, well, I'll say this. He kneeled for police brutality, I mean, against police brutality. And he got blackballed. Yeah. Like, nobody ever thought that, oh, it's because teams didn't want to sign him. But you'd be surprised there's still a lot of

people, and granted, I'll admit, these are probably people who were never down with his protests to begin with, who really want to believe that the only reason he's not in the league is just simply because he's not good enough. Even though we've seen these backups, right? Nathan Peterman still got a job, right? We see what's happening, right? And they still are clinging to this idea that sports is a meritocracy. And if he were really that good, then he would be out there.

But they always change the argument sort of mid-conversation. It goes from, yes, it's a football decision. Well, no team wants to deal with that. Well, either it's a football decision or it's not, right? Is he going to make your team better or not? That's really all it boils down to. So I was happy he wrote the letter so people could really see, you know, kind of where his true intentions are.

I feel like you never really said anything disparaging about ESPN. Really? I mean, not really. I mean, I'm not saying I want to. You never called them a plantation. No. You've never accused anybody over there of being racist. A little bit.

I kind of did. I kind of did. I kind of did. I kind of did. But I know what you're saying. But with that said, I know Jemele Hill ain't going back to ESPN. But the thing is, there's other places I could go. But you wouldn't go back to ESPN.

Well, I wouldn't say that. I mean, you never know, though. If management changes, if ownership changes, and then you get an opportunity, she might go back. And you know how things change in TV all the time. So, I mean, technically, ESPN is paying me right now because I'm executive producing Colin Kaepernick's documentary, which is airing on ESPN and directed by Spike Lee. So, technically, yeah.

I mean, there's a check that comes via them, so to speak. But I know what you're saying. The thing is, the NFL is one-on-one, right? It's like, if things didn't work out at ESPN, I'd go to FS1 or I can go to CNN or other places.

Like, if it doesn't work out in the NFL and that's the highest professional level, that's it. So, and that's what he, that's where he already was. It's not like he was aspiring and hadn't made it. No, he went to a Superbowl. So he's already been to that pinnacle. So in that regard, because I know people are like,

why would he still try to be a part of the same league that he sued? And called races. Yeah, and called races. And we know how the NFL works. But a lot of us, especially when we choose to pursue a passion that we love, are in situations and working for corporations that make questionable decisions and questionable hires. We all are caught up in this game.

I mean, I'm not saying it's right or wrong, but he feels like, and I understand this wholeheartedly, he's owed this. He worked for this. This is not something they gave him. And that is why he is insistent like, oh no, y'all gonna give me the opportunity that I fully earned. And we've seen other black athletes do it before. Like the black athletes that have been ostracized, you know, even when Mahmoud Abdul-Raouf was ostracized, he wanted to be part of the NBA. And so because they feel like I did all this blood and sweat to get here, you think I'm not going to take this opportunity? I earned this.

My blood is on this. Don't you think sometimes when God puts you in a different position, like when God exalts you in a different position, because that's what I feel like happened with Cap. Don't you feel like sometimes you have to let go of things to really embrace the blessing of what is? I think he's been able to do both. He'll never let it go.

Somebody asked me, we'll never let it go. I don't blame him. Like, I don't. Like, I would probably be on that, too. I don't know if I would be able to stand as strong as he has stood with it, but, like, I would be on that, too. Like, oh, no, you just on some pride and petty, I would never file my retirement papers if I were him.

But I do understand because like I tell Charlemagne, you know, a kid that plays football. I got two boys that play football like they did it since age four or five, five days a week in the rain, sleet, snow, four hours a day. Then a game on Sunday. You give so much of your life. You miss half your summer with it. So that's all you know. Right. I don't understand. I can never get that feeling because it's kind of like radio or me talking. It's something that I would want to do all the time. Like you said, that's the only place

to do it. You can't do XFL. You can't do practice team. You can't do all of that though. It's not the same level of competition. Why can't you do Canada? It's not the same level of competition. But my question is if you? It's not the same level of competition. But my question is, if you knew that's what you wanted, right, and you knew that when you stood up for against violence against us, right, at that point when you were about to lose it, why didn't you say,

you know what, the game is more important than this? Oh, but then what? Because he could have. Because he could have. And he didn't. But then you can't be mad at everybody's decision. Well, no, you can, though. Because is that really what should cost you your job in this?

It shouldn't. It shouldn't, right? Because the NFL is wrong. It is. Absolutely. It's like standing up for what is a humanitarian issue. Correct. Right?

Should not be the thing that cost you your entire career. Right. So it is about principle. But if he chosen the game, I don't think he could live with himself for doing that to say like, oh, I stopped kneeling because the NFL told me they didn't like it. You can't

really live with that. I mean, I know there's been professional stands that you both have probably taken, many of which we don't even know about, right? And when you take these stands, you decide right then like, hey, if this goes in a negative direction, I'm OK with it. I knew there was no going back. And I knew there was no going back. No.

But he wants to go back. But he wants to go back because he's owed that. Because as you said, like you brought up your boys. He's done the same thing. Then to go through college. Then to every step that he's been he's never he's made he made he's made this point before every step that he's been he's never been the number one guy he's always had to fight to be the number one guy so he's used to this fight

so no he's like I worked hard to be here I deserve this opportunity and I'm not gonna let you um I'm not gonna let you make it seem as if I'm the one that has created this and I'm not ready. And I think the NFL needs to be reminded that this is going to be a very black mark on their history. Well, we know that, though. Once again, we know that he got blackballed, and we understand the sacrifice that he made. That's why people hold him in high regard.

I just don't want his setback to become his identity. No, I don't think it's like that. I don't think it's like that, but I do think that he feels a responsibility. That's why he's in, you know, I've told people this before, you know, having been able to spend, you know, a lot of time with him. It's like physically he looks better than he did when he was last playing quarterback for the 49ers. I mean, he's been injury-free, I assume pain-free for years now. Hasn't taken any hits.

Still is on a football schedule, you know, waking up, working out at 5 a.m. every day, still going through the same training regimen that he did when he was playing. Because, again, he doesn't want to give them the excuse, we all heard it as kids, you have to work twice as hard. And one of the things a lot of our parents drilled into us is that when the opportunity comes, it's our responsibility to be ready. And he feels like he would be doing a disservice to everything that he stood for if that call ever came.

He's like, oh, I'm out of shape. I can't like they're not going to catch him slipping. So that's why I don't ever expect this man to retire from the league. Nobody would have an issue if he didn't say they were racist a plantation and if people around him because you know he doesn't speak for himself but if people around him hadn't bashed other folks for wanting to be in business with the nfl so like rock nation malcolm jenkins they call all of these people sellouts for wanting to do business with the same league that you're trying to get back into because i do think it does matter your dynamic with the league and I think his issue and I I do again I I understand this his issue was that we're much better and have more power standing in solidarity as opposed to

I mean we already we already know like the the NFL Super Bowl uh halftime show was on life support like nobody was messing with this at all and we gave and it goes beyond Colin and we you know willingly gave them access to our culture and they definitely did not deserve it right they don't we know based off their history the history of this country they don't deserve a lot of things that black people do we know this this is our existence this is part

of it is that that's part of the struggle and the tension point is that we're constantly fighting to be validated and in these systems that were never meant for us. That is the black existence in America for the most part, right? And so I think this struggle is no different because it's more meaningful for him

if he ever is able to get back on the field, what that will mean. Meaning that like you can't kill somebody's career for this. Yes, you may not have liked the criticism toward this country. You may have not have liked the criticism toward this league. By the way, criticism, that's not wrong.

I mean, the NFL was race norming up until a few years ago, okay, where they actively had policy that stated that black brains and black bodies were not worth as much as white bodies. That was literally policy, okay? So what he said about the league is true. What do you mean policy?

So race norming, this is one of the things that they use when it came to settling some of the head trauma lawsuits. They basically, what was part of this, what was part of the NFL practice is that they pretty much said that black players, and everybody can look it up. You can go to Google. Just look up NFL and race norming. This is all there. It's one of the more undercover stories about them that they pretty much said they came up with a calculation

where the head trauma that black athletes suffered in the league, because they said there were certain cognitive abilities that were not there inherently. Race norming, like race norming has been used in a lot of different medical fields, frankly, to justify medical racism on us. And the NFL was using the same practice. So if y'all look it up, you will see. And they stopped doing it, I believe, in either 2015 or 2016. It's why some of the black players didn't receive as much money

from the concussion lawsuit as some of the white players did because they had race norming as part of the formula to figure out who deserve what. That is the NFL. So again, like I said, he was telling the truth. And unfortunately, a lot of the systems that we are a part of have practiced in something, something distasteful, dishonorable, something that excluded us. And part of our fight is that because we built this country and because we're going to make America live up to that brochure, they all told us. Great again. I was like, come on. Oh, God, no, I'm not going to say that. No, I'm not going to say that. No, but I mean,

black people, frankly, I mean, this is something Nicole Hannah-Jones has talked about a lot. It's like we are the ones holding this damn democracy together because we are believing in the president because we actually believe in it and we don't make you do it. And so I think with Colin, it's a similar fight. Oh, no, no. You said this. I'm gonna make you believe it. I'm going to make you actually do what you said you were going to do. I would I would love to see. And I understand Colin Kaepernick. I understand. Like I said, I understand it's it's in his blood. Right. That's what he knows. But I also would love to see him, when you talk about legacy, I would love to see him do something like go to an HBCU or be a coach.

Because the amount of attention that he would bring there, the amount of kids that he can actually teach, I think it would be more impactful if he made the league. If he made the league, okay, cool. But if he takes a school like Howard or Hampton or Morgan State, Alabama A&M, whatever, and he coached that and got them to that level, I think it would show everybody like that would be even a bigger FU. Okay. That's interesting.

And next time I see him, I'll be like, hey, you ever thought about coaching? Does he talk in his documentary? Oh, yeah. Okay. He swears he don't talk. He don't really talk for himself ever. And I don't like that either. Yeah.

I've already seen some of your comments in it. I've got the video back and everything. I have't like that either. I've already seen some of your comments and I've got the video back and everything. I have to give the notes. No, I think what people will hear from him in this doc, he is unloading. I don't mean it in an angry way but this was

as you know, he hasn't spoken very much and so when people accuse him of like, oh he just wanted the attention and it's like, really? I mean mean if he wanted this attention this is a bad way of showing it because he rarely does interviews and he's just kind of tried to let his work speak for himself but yes in this documentary you get a lot of Colin telling his own story and so I think a lot of the people who were detractors they will be embarrassed after they watch some of the sad thing

about Colin is is I feel like sometimes when he speaks, people will be like, he's mad. But he's just giving his side of the story. When he spoke. Whenever he says anything, they be like, he's mad, he's upset, he's this, he's that. I've never seen Colin mad. Yeah.

I just feel like- And he's not mad at this, he's just telling a story. Let that brother be able to tell a story, yeah, absolutely. Yeah, exactly. Is it fair? Is it a fair documentary? Yeah, I mean, I think so. I mean, I think everybody has been able to create their own narrative about Colin.

It's only fair that he finally gets a chance to share what is his perspective, share his opinions. Like everybody else is at the mic. It's time that he will. And, you know, I think we definitely did a fair job. You know, as you know, how much we definitely did a fair job. You know, as you know how much fairness and journalism means to me, I was certainly, that was a big part of my responsibility is making sure that this was fair. This is not just something where we're trying to make Colin look good

or anything like that. Like Colin's story is his story, and we're telling that truthfully and accurately and from his perspective. When is that dropping? It will be in 2024. okay that's the that's that's his bra that's as succinct as a timeline as i can give you but i'm really impressed with where things are i love you know just the energy and just the passion you know spike uh he's been incredible to work with just smart knowledgeable all those things like

legendary filmmaker you all know um but i've learned a lot doing this spike was there when uh well never mind behind the scenes behind the scenes behind the scene movement but i do miss your sports takes jamel do you i talk about this all the time you know what let me tell you this charlamagne i think you deserve you should give me credit because i it took a lot for me to resist texting you the day my 49ers just put... Just beat the brakes off of y'all. Why not?

Because I knew this was coming and I would see him in person and I'd rather see him in person. If I had your number, I would have called you that day. I would have put you on that screen just for five minutes and be like, do you have something to say? When the 49ers washed them cowboys. I just feel like we're going quarterback do that to a black quarterback. Why are you so happy to see that, Jameis?

It ain't black history, bro. What we talking about? Like, what? Hey, dog. I was just like. Nah, that was bad. Yeah, we a problem. But we a problem for most of them.

Y'all, we knew that, though. We knew that. But we a problem for Dallas specifically. You know, and so when I saw the final score, because I missed most of the game because I had some other things to do, but I knew we were going to win. I just didn't think it was going to be like that. No, that was bad.

That was bad. I was like, you know what, I'm going to give Charlemagne some privacy, you know, some thoughts and prayers, and then when I see him in person, I'll be like, your boys. No, that was the moral of the matter. The first two weeks, I'm like, yo, we going to the Super Bowl? You know, I say that every year. Yeah. You know, you know what the loss of the Cardinals, oh, that's nothing. Right. We going to the Super Bowl. I'm that was Memorial Island. The first two weeks, I'm like, yo, we going to the Super Bowl? You know, I say that every year. Yeah.

You know, you know what the loss of the Cardinals? Oh, that's nothing. Right. We going to the Super Bowl. But now you know. I'm back against New England. We going to the Super Bowl. This week, I'm like, ugh.

His daddy texted him and said, Charlamagne, we really going to the Super Bowl. Buy your tickets. Y'all, it's just the belief is so hard. Yeah, this week, that's been a different conversation. Yeah, now. Okay. The thing that was interesting is that everybody was like, okay, this is the game to show how far away the Cowboys are from the 49ers.

But, like, it's not just about the 49ers. Where does Dallas rank in the pantheon of teams that are supposed to be close to a Super Bowl, and they're a lot further behind? Jesus. Like, can you say definitively the Cowboys are as good as the Lions? I don't think so. Damn.

I don't think you can. So it's not just about where they are with San Francisco. It's like, where do they fit as being a team, period, that wants to win the Super Bowl? It's like the 49ers, Eagles, Lions. Yes. Like, they're not better than any of those. Lions is not better than any of those teams.

She's poo-pooing all over your team. You're not lying. I'm not. Yeah. It's no disrespect. I mean, it's just much like most situations. Like, Dak gets a lot of the blame and probably when it goes right,

maybe too much credit. But at some point, you know, they're going to have to make a decision about him. It's like, is this the guy? Because it does, some of it does feel like Tony Romo all over again, where they wasted Tony Romo's talent. Wasted it on just historically bad defenses. I'm away better than back was though yeah I think

Romo is a better quarterback but I think you can win with that like I think you can win a Super Bowl with that like you could go to a Super Bowl with that I mean no disrespect you don't disrespect us coming but like the 49ers they went to Super Bowl with Jimmy Garoppolo and we're really a bad quarter away from winning it. So, like, I think Dak is better than Jimmy Garoppolo. The problem is with Romo, right? They, you know, when Romo got injured and Dak came in, they were all loving Dak.

And now, Romo's better than Dak? Romo was better than Dak then. Yeah, like, that's not a new thing. They loved Dak. But that's not a new take. I don't know. I think Romo's better than Dak. He came in with Dak's jock strap on.

He was so happy about that. Romo was old and hurt. And we knew it was over for Romo. Like Dak's not nowhere near as good a quarterback as Romo. So what do you think, Shaw? You think they should get rid of Dak? I think they should get rid of the coaching staff first. I think they need to bring in a new coaching staff.

Okay. Before they think about getting rid of Dak. A new coaching staff. Mike McCarthy's offense is so predictable. It's just like he's prehistoric to me. Right. But I want it and it'll never happen. I want Eric Bellamy to be the coach of this. Eric Bellamy? Okay. Eric Bellamy, I'm sorry.

Eric Bellamy to be the coach of this. Is Bill Bellamy's coach now? Shut up, man. The fact that he went from the Chiefs to the Redskins just to be another offensive coordinator is mind boggling to me. But I sort of get it because he needed to be from up under the Andy Reid shadow. Because even though Andy Reid would say, like, no, Eric B.

Enemy does call the plays and this is his offense, people still gave Andy Reid all the credit. You come to the commanders, it's less of that. You know, frankly. And so people are able to see in real time, like, oh, okay, this is what his offense looks like without him having Patrick Mahomes.

And, yeah, so I think he just did it because he had to get from up under his shadow. The other problem, too, This is what his offense looks like without him having Patrick Mahomes. Got you, got you. Yeah, so I think he did it because he had to get from up under a shadow. The other problem, too, is that you fire Mike McCarthy, and then the same person, same brain trust, is in charge of finding your new coach. Lord have mercy. I mean, a coach opening can be good and bad. In Dallas' case, I think it's bad. You think Jerry should pass away is what you're saying.

It doesn't matter because it's going through the family. Damn, it's through the family? I think it's bad. You think Jerry should pass away is what you're saying? It doesn't matter because it's going through the family. Damn, it's through the family? Yeah, it's because you got Steven, you got his daughter. It's still going to be

a Jones-run operation. Jones is going to sell the team. Basically saying we won't be good until Jones comes in. I don't know if it's all strictly on ownership because the one thing

I will say about Jerry Jones is he will spend the money to win. So it's not that. It's just he won't let his own ego. Relinquish control. Relinquish control. Yeah.

And he certainly won't hire another coach that could possibly be credited more than him. So, like, everybody's like, oh, Sean Payton. He'll never get a Sean Payton. Like, I don't see it. Like, he'll never get the type of coach, much like he had with Jimmy Johnson, who will ultimately get the credit for getting the team to the Super Bowl. He wants all the credit. So he needs

a coach that is a little bit lesser than. Like in terms of personality profile. He can't take anybody that can compete with his profile. That's why Deion Sanders would never do it. Some of the Cowboy fans were like, we should hire Deion. I was like, that would never happen. You think Jerry Jones is going to let somebody come in here and take all the credit and all the shine no it's not happening all right this is depressing let's go back to one

one of the topic okay theo vaughn and sexy red all right we talked about it a couple times what about that interview is so upsetting and the reason i say that is because i'm like sexy red salute to her yeah political take right i know a lot of people i do know a lot of people in the hood who think that way and i actually understand why they think that way but i think that when you i don't understand why they think that way i get it because it's simple things right right first step back let people out of jail right they give trump credit no follow-up on what happened with that the stimulus checks right people got 1400 checks in the mail with Donald Trump's name on it.

I get it. When you have a government that you feel like has never done anything for you and you see them do a little something, it looks like a lot. You know what I mean? And when I see all of these people who I know are politically astute beating up on her, I'm like, just educate her. Just educate the people that think that way. There's no need to beat up on her. I'm like, just educate her. Like, just educate the people that think that way. Like, there's no need to beat up on her.

It's sexy right. Yeah, I mean, I don't think that anybody was rushing to hear, you know, what her political takes were. But the problem is that it does unintentional, untold damage still. And, you know, like you said, that's not her fault. Like, it is and it isn't because, like, you have a platform now. And I know that she's going to learn this in real time. And is learning know, like you said, that's not her fault. Like she's a she's it is and it isn't because like you have a platform now. And I know that she's going to learn this in real time and is learning this. Unfortunately, some very tough lessons in the last couple of weeks about the things that she's gone viral for is that you're there's going to be an inherent responsibility.

People listen to you. So when they hear you saying things like that and you're saying them whimsically and not very seriously, it can do a lot of damage. Like everybody doesn't have to be a Colin Kaepernick or have to be a Malcolm X or Martin Luther King. It's a reason why there was only one of these, like one of these a generation, like reason why they don't come along a lot. But you can't undermine it. Right. It's like, you know, so what I had a problem with is like the misinformation. It wasn't that she gave her political take. She's allowed to give her political take. She could have said I supported Trump and listed off the reasons that actually made a little bit more sense. Yeah. She could have said that because it's her right to have that have that opinion.

But it's the misinformation that that is what I see is to be more dangerous when you have that kind of platform because like it or not people are going to listen to her and even though you know she talking about they love Trump in the hood I was like well the polls don't really show that but that's okay go ahead go off and so I took the opportunity to your point I saw it as a teachable moment because as you said there are some people who do say the same things so let's let's let's deal with what's being said even though Donald Trump's name were on that stimulus check, the money did not come from him. It didn't come right out of his bank account. It was passed by Congress people. And that's a part of the general collective ignorance that we have. A lot of us don't know how government works. There's no shame in that because it is a complicated system. But we have to understand how legislation is passed

how policies are made knowing the right person to be mad at because a lot of the things that people are mad at you know inflation other things i was like the president doesn't have a whole lot to do with that and we're in a huge age of corporate greed like we've never seen before and i wish that we had a better handle on who to blame because then that would help us better strategize I agree with you 100% yeah you know what I tell the hood I just be like Biden gave us Timmy's to I was like I mean no president in history has ever done that he's like no no no no the checks got held up because he's like no no I'm gonna I'm going to need that Donald J. Trump on.

Because he knew the lasting impact that would have. But technically, you're right. Biden, Trump signed it in twice. Biden signed it in once. Biden gave out STEMIs too. He did. That's the hook. That's how you get the sexy reds and all that.

It is. And unfortunately, the other part of it is that the amount of media machinery behind the right wing, there's no Democratic equivalent. Right. There's no Democratic equivalent to Fox News. So when people are like, oh, Democrats have a messaging problem, like they don't actually have a messaging problem. They're just up against a force that they cannot duplicate. Like they can't duplicate having to own a Newsmax channels who 24-7, this is all they do, is tell them the same 10 lies over and over again. And they just don't have that because as liberal as

you may think MSNBC is or CNN, they're still going to mostly call it down the middle. Down the middle is not the same as Democratic messaging that is constantly being like, we're doing this, we're doing this, we're doing this. So they're up against something that that frankly I'm not sure that they can overcome but it and it doesn't help when you have really popular people with a platform who continue to parrot the same misinformation as some of these other channels so I hope somebody in her camp or somebody period pulled her aside and said hey here are the issues if you're gonna speak about these and if you're gonna take a pro-trump position at at least if you're going to take one,

take one that is a little more informative than the one that you had. Know your facts. Yeah, know your facts. And people just like to be entertained nowadays, too. They do. And Trump is very entertaining. That's why you see these dudes. By the way, I would bet that most of these people who have Donald Trump chains and stuff, they're not registered to vote. But that's the other thing. Why

do you even care? Like, seriously, why do you even care? I don't know the people at the rallies man I think those people that they I'm sure they're registered. They ready. I think you're talking about

like Kodak Black I think you're talking about Sex Red but I know they I'm like I bet you they're not registered to vote. Yeah. I bet you Sex Red

are not registered to vote. I mean that would have been like a great follow up to be like oh so are you registered to vote? Do you plan to vote for him in the next election? That would have been something to follow to bring up with her but i guarantee that might be the last

political question she answers for quite some time that's right so in spotify you parted ways with spotify i did uh i did and um you know listen uh i was there i got there in 2019 and um you know spotify was undergoing quite a change in the sense that, like, they really wanted to be the most prominent brand in the podcast game. And so a lot of the things, a lot of the ups and downs and figuring stuff out, sometimes when you become a part of something that's,

I wouldn't call them necessarily new, but a part of something that's, like, in a deep evolution period, you can, you evolution period you can you know you can wind up you can wind up experiencing some of their growing brains that which are not necessarily out of malice but nevertheless they impact your business and so I think Spotify was overall a great partner we had a good relationship but for the things that I wanted to do they just weren't a fit and you know it was it was not a an easy parting because again we were able to produce a lot of good things together the podcast itself

Jamel Hills Unbothered you know won multiple NAACP Image Awards won Webby Awards like it was a very highly regarded podcast but that and the podcast network that I created for black women I just think ultimately weren't a fit for them um and so uh one thing the experience at ESPN taught me is that when I see certain things and see certain I guess for lack of better way to put it red flags then I know like I probably am better off before this gets to a point where it is contentious where we don't like each other as much it it's probably best that I move on. You're right.

Yeah. So, because I just, I guess I'm really extraordinarily sensitive to those things following the ESPN experience. And so when I saw some of the same decisions being made and same dynamics, I was like, yeah, this is probably a good time. You know, it's like Pittsburgh, the Steelers,

they used to be known for this. In fact, they were good at cutting players too early rather than too late. Wow. Right. And so I felt like we should probably cut the relationship now as opposed to later on when this would be bad for both of us. One more question. You still think Nikki Haley's racist?

Did I say that wrong? Wait, there was a reason for it. Yeah, I know why you said that. You said you thought she was racist for not wanting Kamala, Vice President Harris to be president. No,

so it's not that because again, like in politics, you're not going to agree with who needs to be the leader. It's not the general disagreement and I think people took it that way.

What I, but I know what she's doing and I know in general what the conservatives do when it comes to Kamala Harris is, you know, I know vice presidents are have

other vice presidents have been scrutinized. You know, certainly Dick Cheney was Biden. I don't think so much. I mean, to be honest, like nobody really did. Mike Pence. OK. You know, so all of a sudden this infatuation with what the vice president does. It's just funny that certain types of criticisms that have been made about Kamala Harris are criticisms that are very unique to her being a black woman in that position. And so I feel like one of the bullhorns, one of the dog whistles they use is by throwing out, oh, you know, she could be president. It's because what they're really trying to say is, like, you know, this black woman could be president if you reelect Joe Biden. And that's why all of it, not all of a sudden, but that's why his age, even though Trump is like what Trump is like about the same, four years old.

They both old. OK, they're both old. But the focus and the attention and the level of scrutiny on Joe Biden's age and health are in part due because of who is the vice president. Because the message they're really trying to send is like, oh, by showing him, you you know because he as he's told people before like he he struggles with stuttering right so he's not the most i don't think effective public speaker because of that struggle he's probably very conscious of it and but they are constantly running these clips of him sort of looking out of it because what they're really trying to communicate is like oh but you know who's behind him do y'all really want a black woman to be president and i feel like nik Nikki Haley uses that. So one of the reasons, like when Don Lemon said that about when he criticized her

and all he was saying was she needs to be careful lobbying the whole ageism thing because there are people out there who feel like women are aged out or they're past their prime at a certain point. Like if you say that about a woman, people are going to have problems. So why are you saying this about your political opponents? Because if somebody comes at you that way, you're going to be mad. That's all he was saying. Right.

And she constantly is talking about Biden's age. And she's talked about Trump's age before, I believe. And so my whole thing with her is like by constantly drumming up a level of criticism for Kamala Harris. We know what you're doing. We know the dog whistle that you're trying to blow and given her history. I mean, what her father taught at HBCU, you know, the fact is she's a person of color in this country and to see some of her opinions about affirmative action and about just in general, the conditions of people of color and black people specifically in this

country. I mean, it took a horrible shooting at Charleston for her to understand why the Confederate flag is not appropriate. So there's a lot of things on her record to check her about. So I'm not calling her a flat out racist. But what I will say is that she's very comfortable using racist dog whistles to further and advance her political position. I feel like the biggest opposition Vice President Harris is going to face is going to come from in her own party.

Yes, I agree. I think that there's people in her party right now who don't want her to be vice president. I agree. Because did you see the article that came out yesterday in the New York Times? And it's the hit pieces that are done on her. It's just, I don't, I mean, I get it,

but I don't get it. Like, I had to go Google and see, well, what did she do? Like, it just came out of nowhere. Yeah. Long-ass hit pieces. I mean, and even some of us who are just like well what is she doing where has she been like she literally speaks every day guys like i don't know what to tell y'all like you're like where is she i'm like uh i because i'm on the mailing list i get her schedule practically

every day like she's always doing a lot of things um like i know right now she's on a college tour to to you know not only just promote what they're doing in terms of alleviating some of these student loans, but also to just encourage people again to pursue their academic pursuits. Because somehow in this country, we got to a point where now degrees are bad. Now going to college is bad. But no, like she's been subjected to a lot of hit pieces. And you could tell they're hit pieces because of some of the things they say about her. And you could tell they're from within. And you could tell they're from within.

It's like, because I think in that, this is the article that mentioned how much time she spends on her hair. On her hair. Like, are you serious? Like, that's what we doing? Like, on her hair. Like, she's a black woman. I bet she is going to spend some time on her hair. Because the moment she doesn't look presentable, guess what the conversation is going to be about the vice president.

So it's like she's damned if she does, damned if she doesn't. She's caught in a really tight position. And I feel like it is really it's really neutering what I think makes her such a strong politician. And like it or not, Joe Biden would not have gotten elected without her. He would not have. She was the strongest, I think, person for him to run with. It was her. The general election polls that you see that shows Trump beating Biden are scaring people in the Democratic Party and they're looking for somebody to blame. Correct. And it's her. And I think that there is some type of groundswell happening in that party to get her out of the

picture and put somebody else there. I don't think they're going to do that because I think they know that that would be politically way worse. Because even with the conversations that have been had about Vice President Harris in our community and there being some mixed feelings in our community about her, even with all that being said, if they take her off the ticket, that will not play well with us because black people overwhelmingly support her, right? And this is, we're the people you need to bring to the voting party. You cannot win. Do they overwhelmingly support Kamala Harris?

Overwhelmingly support her. And look, I know people are going to watch this and I know they'll comment, you know, and say like, no, overwhelmingly support Kamala Harris. Look at who's voting in our community. Look who votes. Older people vote, right? You think older people, older black people don't love Kamala Harris? They love Kamala Harris.

I think so. Absolutely. A thousand percent. Dude. Black people are going to vote for black people. Especially older black people. Like they will. They love Kamala Harris.

We're always going to show, black people are always going to vote Democrat. But I hear a lot of older black people's men and women. They don't really. They're going to vote for. I don't know. I think the majority of black people support Kamala Harris. I do. Again, I'm not saying that there have not been criticisms in our community that people have brought to the surface.

Like we sure about this or not. Majority support Kamala harris okay all right i mean is it look listen do you feel like that there's another viable vp that will get no i don't think exactly i don't think the democrats have no bench period no it's thin it's thin like when you look at who could have run with it just with claire he said bench bench no bench clearly no she heard bitch and i heard bitch no that it. He said bench. No bench, clearly. That's what I heard. She heard bitch and I heard bitch. That's why I said bench.

Come on, Bianca. You're from South Carolina now. You understand me. You heard. I said bench. He said bench, ladies and gentlemen. A lot of times when people think that you said something on air that you haven't said, I was like, look at the person next to him.

If the person next to him doesn't respond, then that means that they probably didn't say it. I heard it, but I was like, you didn't respond. But I looked over your shoulder and she was like, I'm not the only one. If you would have actually said that,

you think I would have been like, hey man. I said, let me clear it up now. I wasn't going to say it. No, he said bitch very clearly. Bitch.

Bitch. He's from South Carolina. Bitch. You made me question. No, you did. You said bitch very clearly. Bitch. Bitch. He's from South Carolina. Bitch. You made me question. I was like, that's not what you said. No, you did. You said bitch. I know I did, but it sounded like you said just now.

Say bench. Bench. I said they don't have no bench. Right. The hard N. The hard N. They ain't got no bench. Bench.

They ain't got no benches. They ain't got no benches. All right. I mean, this sentence wouldn't even make sense. Like, the Democrats ain't got no bitches. They ain't got no bitches. All right. I mean, this sentence wouldn't even make sense. Like, the Democrats ain't got no bitch? Like, that wouldn't even make sense. You just talked about Kamala Harris. Then he said, they ain't got no other bitch.

No, no. But he means it's bitch. He's got no other bitch. No. Oh, my God. Imagine the headline. I don't think anyone heard it. No.

I'm glad you heard it. If you wasn't here, they'd be like, oh, this guy's crazy. Oh, that'd be crazy. They'd be like, Charlamagne on Kamala be crazy They'd be like Charlamagne don't Comble hairs Dang I know other bitches Somebody still might say that We live in that era

What Somebody still might say that You absolutely did not say that Jesus Christ People he didn't say it Bitch Bitch Oh my goodness

Alright Ladies and gentlemen Uphill A memoir The paperback is out right now Thank you guys We appreciate you for joining us And it's The Breakfast Club

Good morning Wake that ass up In the morning. The Breakfast Club. celebrities, athletes, entrepreneurs, and more. After those runs, the conversations keep going. That's what my podcast Post Run High is all about. It's a chance to sit down with my guests and dive even deeper into their stories, their journeys, and the thoughts that arise once we've hit the pavement together. Listen to Post Run High on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. As a kid, I really do remember having these dreams and visions, but you just don't know what is going to come for you. Alicia shares her wisdom on growth, gratitude, and the power of love. I forgive myself. It's okay. Have grace with yourself. You're trying your best.

And you're going to figure out the rhythm of this thing. Alicia Keys, like you've never heard her before. Listen to On Purpose with Jay Shetty on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Had enough of this country? Ever dreamt about starting your own? I planted the flag.

This is mine. I own this. It's surprisingly easy. 55 gallons of water, 500 pounds of concrete. Or maybe not. No country willingly gives up their territory. Oh my God. What is that?

Bullets. Listen to Escape from Zakistan. That's Escape from Z-A-Q-istan. On the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. For those who listen to audiobooks while running errands or at the end of a busy day. From thought-provoking novels to powerful poetry, we'll explore the stories that shape our culture. Listen to Black Lit on the Black Effect Podcast Network, iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Hey everyone, this is Courtney Thorne-Smith, Laura Layton, and Daphne Zuniga. On July 8, 1992, apartment buildings with pools were never quite the same as Melrose

Place was introduced to the world. We are going to be reliving every hookup, every scandal, and every single wig removal together. So listen to Still the Place on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen to podcasts.