The Breakfast Club - INTERVIEW: Jessica Tarlov on Trump, Political Arguments & Winning Without Losing Friends

Episode Date: September 16, 2026

Today on The Breakfast Club, Jessica Tarlov on Trump, Political Arguments & Winning Without Losing Friends. Listen For More!YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@BreakfastClubPower1051FMSee omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

This is an IHeart podcast. Guaranteed Human. Didn't catch the latest Roland Martin unfiltered podcast? Here's what you missed. People wake up and go, oh, damn, wait a hold up. They change all of that. Yes. It's real.

This is a wholesale attack. It is targeting black people in every federal agency. It's raw. White folks have never allowed that reckoning to last more than a decade. Catch Roland Martin's daily commentary on the Black Information Network. And download Roland Martin unfiltered on a new. The IHart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, wherever you get your podcasts.

Every day I wake up. You're all finished or y'all done? Morning, everybody. It's DJ Envy. Just hilarious. Salomey Nagy. We are the Breakfast Club. Long & Rose is here as well.

We got a special guest in the building. We have Jessica Tarlow. Welcome. Thank you so much. How are you feeling this morning? I'm a little nervous. Why? Happy Book Pub Day.

Because it's book pub day. And that's a nerve-wracking thing. But this is the best way. way I could ever imagine kicking it off. So thank you guys for having me. Our book is called I Disagree Winning Arguments Without Losing Friends. Have we reached a point in American politics where some disagreements should cost you friendships, though? I have heard from a lot of people who absolutely think so. And the point of the book is not to force people into relationships or conversations that they don't want to have, but to speak to the people that I know from the outreach

that I get and just conversations that you have with friends and family where they are bemoaning the fact that we can't talk to each other. And it's not just about politics. It's about, it feels like every facet of life. You know, I have a four and a half and a two and a half year old. And I feel like the mom chat is as heated as talking about immigration. You know, do you send an Oreo to school and the kid's lunchbox? What are you doing with screen time? Marriage is hard. You know, And we're all pretty siloed and pretty angry. And I have this unique job, certainly in the media space, being the only liberal talking of four conservatives and doing that for several years.

I feel like I've developed a toolkit. And so I wanted to share it with people. I read somewhere that you said before you, I guess, get into a debate on Fox, you already find something you can concede on? Not necessarily concede. I call it the soft start. Okay. And I really, it's kind of could be summed up as just being a normal human being, right?

That you, if you're going to meet somebody or talk to them, that you try to think about stuff you have in common. Like if you sit down for a date, right, you're going to try to figure that out. And that's what I do as well. Either some kind of olive branch where it's like I actually looked into the way that you see this. If we're talking about legislation, it's a pretty boring example. But I try to engage with all of the components to make sure that. I could see how someone could get to yes before I spend all my time saying, this is why it should be a no.

Like with the big beautiful bill, which we talked about for months and months and months. And I feel like it's a great table setting for any conversation. And it can be something funny or light. I mean, you guys know in the way that you interact with each other. And a bunch of comedians also, not saying I'm as funny as a comedian, but, you know, poking at someone and just also indicating to the audience. because there are millions of people

that are taking you in remotely say, like, no, we're actually friends. And it might get a bit heated, but we're okay. And you should be okay also in your own life if you're talking about this stuff. Do you like the conversations are having more? The reason I ask is, I remember back in the day, my parents didn't have conversations about politics.

It was certain things we didn't have in the house, right? We didn't talk about politics. We didn't talk about religion when it came to other people. We just talked about normal stuff, whether it was sports, whether it was going on in the community. But we stayed away from. But now it seems like we're talking about it more, which is taking that into the schools where now our kids are talking about it more.

And now our kids' friend groups are based on, well, you voted for him, your parents voted for them, that we're not talking to you. And it's making it awkward because now you can't really have an opinion because your opinion, your opinion can affect your social life. Yeah, I think it's really rough out there for kids. Mine are too young to have these kinds of opinions. Four and a half, they understand. If they go to school, they definitely understand. I have a four and a half. She starts to, yeah.

They know Trump. They know. Yes, she does know that and she knows like mama's on the TV. But she doesn't know yet what mama is saying. Correct. And that she wears fake eyelashes. That's basically where we are at this point. But you do see how much parents are putting their politics on their kids, which feels unfair to a large degree.

And, you know, I take politics very seriously. I understand your opening question. You say, like, you know, should. we be losing friends, a lot of people I know think that supporting Trump or Trumpism is about morality and that if you go along with this, you are saying you don't care if people's health care gets taken away. You don't care about Head Start. You don't care about USAID. You don't talk, you don't care about what happens to immigrants or frankly Americans that are trying to protect immigrants. But that still feels like, feels like policy though. So I think those, those are fair.

No, I understand that. I'm saying that the reason that my solution to it or what I'm putting in the book doesn't necessarily translate for everybody or maybe what's happening in these households is that I understand when folks say this is a moral imperative that you oppose these things. But there's a lot still to distill about the conservative community. And you guys obviously talked about this a ton around the 2024 election and weren't particularly surprised by the outcome when so many. traditional Democratic voters moved over and voted for Trump and took a flyer on the guy who they thought would be better for the economy. And one of the main the pieces of the book and that I talk to people a lot is that when liberals talk about politics, there's a lot of hyperbole to it. Some of it warranted, some of it not. But conservatives don't see it as the defining feature of

their lives in the same way. I mean, not a guy who has like a Trump tattoo on his face. But the average conservative doesn't, you know, live and breathe it all day every day. And I think that's preventing a lot of conversations and probably infiltrating to these kids, right? Her saying, you know, my mom told me that your family's this way. I don't want to hang out with you or, you know, we see the world differently. Where is the line between accepting somebody who thinks differently and tolerating something that just violates your values? I think it's personal for everybody. And I know that I'm in a different position because this is my job. versus I'm doing this for fun.

Like, I'm compensated. You know, it's a different calculation. But I think as we move towards a world where Donald Trump will not be as central of a figure in our politics, I think he will still play a huge role. And that will be obviously important to him as he, you know, rules from Mar-a-Lago or wherever he's going to go in political retirement. Do you think he's just going to walk away? No, but I think he will end up going.

I mean, I don't think it's going to be like a January 6th redux, but I think it is going to be ugly and it is going to be fraught. And I think that they are trying to figure out every way that they can certainly within legal bounds and maybe in illegal bounds find a way to continue to claw to hold on to power. I take Steve Bannon very seriously. I agree. And I think that we have to be prepared for it. I think Democrats are, there are a lot of books now about it.

And people like Mark Elias, the election attorney obviously is super focused on this. But I don't think that we are prepared for the storm that is coming for the midterms and what they're going to do to make sure that people, you know, can't get to the polls or whatever they're going to say about fraud. And then 2028 will probably be even worse. What Supreme Court did yesterday? Did it give you hope? Yeah.

Okay. There are those moments. Okay. And then my colleagues will always make fun of me. And we're like, oh, see, they're not that bad when a decision that I align with comes down. Yes, I think it's a good thing. And there are glimmers of that. But when you know how organized they are this time around with Project 2025 and the way that the first two and a half years of the administration has gone, only a year and a half, actually.

I'm sorry. I can't believe it's just that little. you know that they have plans for everything and they have very smart people doing it. That's why this book is good, right? Because you spend every day arguing with conservatives who fundamentally disagree with you on stuff, right?

So what have conservatives taught you that Democrats still don't understand about conservatives? Because I feel like you can't beat your opponent if you don't know anything about your opponent. And if you look down on them. Yes. That transformation has been really important.

You know, I grew up here in the city a very charmed life, basically knew no conservatives until I went to college. And that was even still like upper middle class kind of mainline Philadelphia, you know, Bush voters. I didn't, the MAGA movement, I think, was a bit of a jolt for everybody, generally speaking. And so getting to know people who come to their beliefs through legitimate means versus, you know, they grew up in gun, culture, for instance, like as hunters or conservationists or people who are pro-life because of their religion. That was a whole new world to me in debating them.

Or, you know, I have a bunch of colleagues who are veterans, Joey Jones, for instance, who joins the five quite regularly, lost both of his legs from an IED in the Middle East. And so talking to him about notions of patriotism or what it means to support our true. or what good foreign policy is is completely different than sitting in a kind of ivory tower castle, right, and debating it. He knows the real implications of what can happen when we make these kinds of decisions. So I think fundamentally, part of the problem is not knowing these people or having a caricature of what a Trump voter looks like. It's very different post-2020, right? A Trump voter looks like a 45-year-old Latino construction worker who always voted Democrat or

you know, it looks like more women of color. It looks like more black men. It looks like all of these Gen Z guys who spend their time listening to Theo Vaughn and playing video games. So getting to know the people, understanding that it isn't the most important part of their identity and that a lot of times we're talking past each other because we're not recognizing that. I'm understanding that they don't fundamentally think that you're a bad person.

I feel like we come in back against the wall a little bit and that that's not necessary. And then like what I was talking about with the soft start or I wanted to put these tips boxes in the book at the end of each chapter so that people could almost use it as a business book. And some of the ones that I think are most important are things like to think and talk in averages and not in anecdotes. You know how Ben Shapiro said the facts don't care about your feelings. That's right. I've really changed the way that I make an argument and have a conversation because I know if the odds are that I get more emotional about it, they're going to shut off to it or be able to dismiss it more easily.

But is there a productive disagreement? You know, because when you argue with somebody, sometimes it's right fighting, right? They just want to win. They don't care who's right, like who's wrong. They just want to win the argument. So is there a productive argument? I think so. I have a different definition of winning.

Okay. So, and I write in the book. that I don't think my job is to change minds, but to open them to the possibility that there is a representative of the left that thinks differently than you and is not insane or doesn't fit this caricature of, you know, like a blue-haired wine mom turned activist or whatever they might cook up. I want viewers and I've met a lot of them out in the wild to see me as somebody who does her homework, who shows up prepared and honest and wanting to be part of the conversation, not coming in just to drop a haymaker and get a viral clip and walk out the door.

And that's why I think the five has been so successful, frankly, because, I mean, it's a whole hour and people who just know me from clips don't necessarily see what goes on in the back half of the show where we're talking about dating trends and personal lives. And you can see that there's a genuine camaraderie and connective tissue between the hosts. And it's a great relief to the viewers that that exists. And we have 20% Democrats, 30% independence and 50% Republicans. But that's everything from MAGA to Romney Republicans. And I know from this outreach that I've gotten that they A, wanted to know how do you do it, which is why I wrote the book, but B, that they're happy that I'm part of the table. And I feel like we've lost track of that, that actually people's lives

look more like the table on the five than they do a lot of what media is. I mean, that's how we first started talking originally. We were saying it's not supposed to be this way. You're not all supposed to be a denomination of conservative or a denomination of liberal. You know, people have crazy Aunt Jessica coming to Thanksgiving or, you know, crazy Uncle Jesse. Don't you think that the difference between Trump supporters and Trump voters? You mean the base versus people who show up on election day and say, I think he's going to put more money in my pocket? Yes, like those people who actually bought into the stuff that he was on the campaign trail

talking about and they just went out there and you know what, I'm going to go vote for Trump but I think he is going to fix the account. As opposed to being the guy, you talk about with the tattoo on his face who's just like very cold-like. There is still the 20% right of the base and I've moved that down from the 30% that it used to be. Remember from the he could shoot someone on Fifth Avenue and no one would care. Apparently they do care when they have less money in their pockets or their farms are going bankrupt or he said no new wars and we're in, you know, a seven, eight month war now in Iran. So things

are a bit different there. But yes, I think there's absolutely a difference. And that speaks to the growing rise of independent voters in the country. It's now the biggest block. People who identify with neither party. And they probably lean left or lean right based on certain issues, like if they care about, you know, women's reproductive rights, for instance, they might lean left on that or if gun culture matters to them in a certain way. But people are just fed up with the system generally. And I think the inability for us to talk to each other and not acquiesce. I want to make that clear because I always, excuse me, I have a podcast called raging moderates. And people will say, oh, moderates, like, that.

so mushy. No one wants that. And we have the raging in it, which is part of it because everyone's vibe right now is anger and they want to burn the system down. And I think in these conversations, some people might think, oh, you're, you know, you're telling me to go talk to these people, that means that I have to kind of like lay down and take it and acquiesce to their views, which I don't think is true at all. You have to just be modeling a kind of discourse that people can connect to to get those voters, not a Trump supporter, but the voter. You know, the ones watching you and watching Flagrant and are saying like, oh, I like 50% of what this guy says.

And that might be enough for me. Most people are one-issue voters, I think. Yeah, depending on the cycle. I mean, well, it's the economy stupid. Every time. Always. Yeah. Well, what about you on the other side, right?

Like, you're not running for office. You are having these conversations. You talk about, like, Grace Underfire in your book, and I know, like, Trump has, like, said different things about you specifically, like, not even about, your takes, but about you as a person and what you do. Yeah. What's the line where you're like, I understand we got to tell across the table, but like I genuinely just don't like this person because the attacks get so personal

you just don't want to give the platform. Like there's no real way to a conversation with a certain person. Yeah. I mean, I think for everybody it's a very personal decision. I mean, I can't control what President Trump wants to say about me or anybody on TV, you know, and he watches too much television and he should be busier. fundamentally is my feeling about it. But I think that there are ways, if you are going to have that conversation, if you decide that it's worthwhile to you, that you can better understand how what they're saying about you and why they're saying it.

So in the chapter where I talk about these Trump attacks, it was important to me to work on figuring out what it is that he was actually saying and how seriously I would take it. And I ended up with this tip or maxim from the book that a criticism on style is actually a win on substance. So that when people can't deal with the content of what you're saying, they'll start picking on something surface. And they'll say, oh, it's her voice. Or it's her, he said, jittery presentation. And those are things that I'm self-conscious about. And he's very good at reading the room that way, which I think is why his nicknames, at least earlier on. I think they've gotten a little dull, frankly.

but they always hit because they were things that people were already concerned about or others would recognize. But when you are diving into these contentious conversations, I think being able to really parse what the criticisms mean and how important they are depending who they're coming from and how they're expressed to you is really crucial. Yeah, that's all you say. When somebody interrupts you on the five,

that means you take that as evidence that you're winning. Yeah. You know, you've done a bunch of these. What other little tails are there that let you know? You've heard the chaos. Now you can see it. Hello. My gosh.

Watch all your favorite podcasts from start to finish, right inside the free I-Hurt radio app. Gets the blood going up. Catch every laugh and eye roll on shows like the Tom Green Farmcast and park the bus. Now with full video. We're building a ramp for Tony Hawk. It's the same hosts and the same chemistry

with all the hilarious moments you've been missing right on your screen. Cheers. Open the free IHard Radio app. Search video podcasts and tap watch. Didn't catch the latest Roland Martin unfiltered podcast? Here's what you missed. And the argument is, do you want to win?

If you don't win, you have no power. It's real. Those are the very people who I always say vote against their own economic interest and they complain about the very thing they're receiving. It's raw. I knew that the issue of transgender athletes, was not going well with a lot of black men. Roland Martin unfiltered.

I went off, I said, this is exactly what I'm talking about. Y'all going to scream at Chanel, but you don't want to see a black luxury company in the same vein. Catch Roland Martin's daily commentary on the Black Information Network. Twelve seats, those are moving south. So if you Democrats, you don't wait to 2030, you better be hitting the ground going hard in the South now. and download Roland Martin unfiltered on the IHart radio app, Apple Podcasts,

wherever you get your podcasts. You know somebody realizes like, oh, you got them. Well, definitely that an interruption is verification that you're on the right path and to keep going, but to also counter that interruption with some sort of connective tissue moment. So a little jab back or something with a bit of humor so that people can also see. and you can even feel we're actually in this together. I already said to, you know, think in averages and not in anecdotes. I think, you know, I have a background in political polling and research.

So doing, creating database stories is what I do. But I think that's especially important for women when you go into these hostile venues. But even in your personal life at your job, you know, wherever it is to kind of have that armor. The soft start, which we talked about, looking for what could connect you before you bring up what could tear you apart or how you feel differently about it. Spending time in uncomfortable places I think is really important and we don't do enough of it. And it can be an easy thing right in your community or, you know, start eating at a different kind of place or, you know, who you're talking to if you're going to a sporting event or you're at a social event. I have a lot in the book about my time in college and my time in grad school and how often I pushed myself to be uncomfortable so that I could grow from that. You know, I'm obviously present as quite an extrovert and I'm on TV for a living, but my insides are very introverted.

And yeah, I actually hear that with a lot of people who do comedy. That is this great release for you. Right, right, because naturally very introverted. I seem very extroverted because I know how to be that way. Yeah. We have to connect with people. We have to talk to people. Have to show a personality.

But really, they don't fuck away from me. Like, that's how I really am. But not like bad, but it's just like introvert. Yeah, and need that inner peace and that space. Yes. Yeah. To re-energize and stuff. Right.

I wanted to ask you, I love the subtitle, winning arguments without losing friends. Has there ever been a time, right? Or how often does this happen? or you'll win an argument, you lose a friend, and then the friend comes back because you changed their mind, or you opened up their mind. I think that...

This is inside of politics or outside. Yeah, I mean, I think that within my family, so we were all denominations of Democrat. Like, the big fight in 2016 was Bernie versus Hillary, was like the hill to die on. And then 2024 came around, and I have an uncle, we're Jewish, who's particularly religious,

and voted for Trump. because he thought he'd be better for Israel. Well, happy New Year. Oh, thank you. Shenat-Tobah. I was going to say that, but I didn't know how to pronounce it. Well, there you go. I've been texting it to my father.

I don't know how to pronounce it. Yeah, you can do it for your next guess. Okay. You should greet everyone like that. It's my name. I mean, probably not everyone. But yes. Shenat-to-va.

But I was so frustrated with him because I felt like you're picking this one thing when there's a whole host of other issues that matter to you a lot. I mean, someone who worked in the NGO world, you know, focused on helping homeless people, knows how important these services are for vulnerable people. And like, they're cutting, like, the plan is to cut everything. And he, he went out and did it and we're still, you know, very close. And he's kind of been trickling in little bits of discontent. Like, oh, you know, this kind of surprised me or,

you know, this seems bad. And making space for him to puzzle it out himself without me saying, like, I told you so or I can't believe you did this has been very helpful. And one of the lessons, like the tips in there is to know when to talk and to know when to listen. And And there's an anecdote in there about going on air right after Charlie Kirk was assassinated. And realizing that there was basically nothing that I could say that would meet the moment of how tragic and harrowing and unfair what happened to Charlie was no matter what you thought of Charlie's content. And so I worked really hard. day to figure out what to say to both balance the fact that I knew Charlie. I wasn't that close with him, but I'd seen him just a month before and had talked to him about we had kids

about the same age and what's it like living in Arizona. And he was so excited for me. It was the morning that I was going to have Hillary Clinton on my podcast, which was a big deal for me and you know, one of my idols. And he was so excited for me and said, I remember from the 2016 election, you used to wear this Hillary Clinton novelty watch. You know, I was so in it. Like we're going to, you know, bust the glass ceiling and here's my woman car, deal me in and all, you know, all the stuff that led to a lot of tears. Anyway, just this lovely interaction.

And so I'm plotting out what I'm going to say on air that day and that I want to make sure that the viewers and my co-host know that I knew Charlie was a good guy. I didn't agree with his politics, but I knew who his soul was. And then I also wanted to make sure that I talked about who actually perpetrates the majority of political violence in the country because Trump had already come out and said that we're at war and they're going to kill us. And this is the new frontier and this is what's going to happen. And there had been a rise in left wing violence. Like remember the Molotov cocktails on the Teslas. But nothing like white male conservatives.

No. But that was my point. And I cited a lot of data because I think in those averages and not. not the anecdotes and, you know, talked about data from the government itself because that's the safest place to go to be like, it's your, you know, you guys are in charge now and it just didn't hack it. There, you know, huge emotional response, very personal and understandable because I was talking to Greg Godfeld about this because he was having an emotional reaction to the fact that his friend was murdered in broad daylight for just sitting there trying to have a conversation with people.

And so knowing that there are some fights that are just not worth having made a huge difference. And I think for him also, he realized that he had been personalizing it and he apologized on air for that. This isn't you. It's just that this is so personal and it's so hard. And that has direct carryover to our real lives. You know, you guys know that from anyone who means something to you. They're going through something. It's not the time to pile on with like.

here are, you know, 10 studies that show that this was predictable or, you know, and I think if you want to win elections, which I fundamentally do, I don't work for the Democratic Party, but I think that we have better outcomes when Democrats are in power. You have to make room for people to come back in. We're, you know, we talk a lot about this big tent, but could get even bigger if you get back these voters from 2024 who casually supported him. I want to stay on the database argument for a second, but you're right, because people don't remember. realize when Democrats are in the White House, the economy does better. Why they're not able to sell that?

I have no idea. Because it feels, I feel like there's just a huge communication problem and like a style of messenger problem. Because if you ask anybody what they thought of the 90s, they all loved it. Like Democrats and Republicans, the economy was booming. And you had a president that was willing to work across the aisle. You had Doge actually done right. And there were some bad things.

things obviously out of the Clinton years. And we've reevaluated on, you know, criminal justice and don't ask, don't tell and things like that. But it always feels like a lecture when Democrats say it. Like I remember going into the 2024 election. I thought, oh, my God, you know, they're campaigning in bumper stickers, which is what people like. They're saying no tax on tips. And we're saying, you know, fastest recovery in the G7. Like, who cares? And it hasn't gotten any. What is that? better. And I feel like democratic leadership sometimes gets annoyed at me. I just talk about it incessantly. Like what are the three policies? What are you going to do? Are you going to build 10 million affordable housing units? That seems like a good idea. Are you going to, how are you going to reform

Obamacare? It's not enough to just say you'll get your subsidy back. It's kind of a bad situation that we needed the subsidies in the first place. You know, and we don't get any of that from leadership. So another thing that dims do wrong. And that's why I want to stay on. the database argument thing, because I find that so fascinating because I often wonder does data beat real world lived experience?

Like I see that comes up a lot when we're talking about crime, right? They'll say data may show crime going down in the city, but the people who live there may not feel like it. So give me an example of a political argument

where the numbers might have been on your side, but you realize the other person was emotionally right. Crime and policing is the top one, and that is right now the only issue that Republicans are still leading on.

Because no matter, you know, the huge drop in the murder rate, and we had the fewest murders this summer in New York City that we've had in decades. And Mom Donnie does all the right things in terms of standing shoulder to shoulder with Jessica Tisch and saying, like, you know, I might be a big lefty progressive in all these ways, but I know how important it is to keep the city safe and get people off the streets. It's something that you feel. And it's also something that depending on the media that you listen to, that you ingest that way. Because a lot of the people who have such, you know, solid opinions about these things, don't live anywhere near a CVS with your deodorant locked up.

Right? They live in the middle of the country or, you know, wherever are people abroad who are talking about what a shithole it is. And then they come for the World Cup and they're like, oh, my God. This is actually amazing. or remember how all of the conservative sports commentators when they went to San Francisco for the Super Bowl and Pat McAfee and that whole crew were like, oh my God, the city is incredible.

And you think this has been the power of the way people talk about what's going on, that you think that you're going to be stepping over a homeless person left and right. And Dan Lurie, the mayor there, has done a lot to clean up. And obviously everyone is on your best behavior when you're hosting a big event like that. I know. Exactly.

And then they go right back to regularly scheduled programming when everybody leave. I'd say half of the regularly scheduled program. I don't think, I think that a lot of progress has been made, but again, that is not sellable to people.

Another issue where I think the data versus the lived reality is really hard to balance for people is on immigration. And I've gotten really important insight and a different perspective on it from working in a conservative media environment, you know, while the administration, the Biden administration was saying

nothing's wrong on the border, the border is effectively closed. Fox had a drone flying over the border that was showing, you know, tens of thousands of people and at peak a couple hundred thousand people streaming across the border in a month. And I was gobsmacked, not only by the reality of what was going on and how unfair it was that I was sitting here in an air-conditioned studio in New York City telling people an Eagle Pass to suck it up, but that the administration had no answer for it. And they got it together in the last year, I think, because elections, frankly, were coming and they thought we need to do something about this. But finding a way to talk about a humane system and an asylum system that works and making sure that you're not picking up people, innocent people on the streets,

which is how immigration enforcement is happening while also making it clear that it is a good thing that our border is closed or that Blue City mayors and Blue State governors need to cooperate with ICE vis-a-vis getting criminals out of this country because when the opposition is just

abolish ICE, people turn off to that because you say there are these young Americans, mostly women like a Sheridan Gorman who's from New York but killed in Chicago or a lake and Riley, conservatives know all their names. And they're saying, well, why don't you

give a fuck about this? Right? So I get it. You don't want someone who's been here for 30 years and as a day worker to get picked up at Home Depot. But if you act like this doesn't matter, even if it is one instance, it emotionally,

it hits you really hard. Definitely. This is my last question. I really want you to think about this one. What's harder for you personally? admitting to Jesse Waters that he's right or admitting to yourself that he's right. Like the internal dialogue? Yes.

Like having to admit to him personally that he's right. Yeah, I don't want to do that. Or admitting to yourself. Luckily, it so rarely happens that I don't have to. The out loud concession is a big one. And I think it relates, especially on these kinds of mediums because it feels so personal and private right now. but the camera right there.

There are millions of people that are listening. And I think about that on the five because there are about 10 people in the studio and then there are four million people that are watching it. But I think this connects directly to where we started with the fact that conservatives don't take it as seriously

as liberals do. So they can admit all the time that you have a point. Like we were having this big back and forth about the Save America Act. And I was so frustrated because they kept saying, oh, it's a voter ID bill. It's a voter ID bill.

And it's not a voter ID bill. Put a voter ID bill on the floor. And then you can demonize Democrats until the sun comes down if they don't vote for that. But this is a bill where you're going to have to show your passport or your birth certificate to be able to vote. And you know who it's going to disenfranchise? Largely conservative voters.

More Democrats have passports. Anyone who went through the foster care system who was adopted, no birth certificate. And I told this story about going to the DMV three times during my second maternity leave to get my real ID. Remember when they said they were actually going to enforce it? And I have two middle names. I'm really getting weedsy about this. But none of my identification matched because some had one middle name, some had no middle names.

And I had the time and the means to have a nanny to stay with my kids so that I could go do this. And I said how many people are going to do this? Right. Right. They're just not going to vote. And kids who are away at college, they show up, they're pumped. They're going to University of Wisconsin at Madison. Or they're going to a conservative, you know, going to Liberty University, whatever.

Are they coming with their birth certificate? No. That's just not what's going to happen. And so I'm making that case. And Jesse is like, is that true? You know, he just didn't, he thought it was a regular voter ID bill. And I said, yeah, it's absolutely true. And then he basically said, oh, that's messed up.

You know, and that's not something that I would feel good about doing. Because it's also one on four. So I feel like I have a little bit of the weight of the world on my shoulders. But it was an affirmation of the fact that, again, politics is in everything to them. And you know that you're also going to get another swing the next day, right? You're going to come back and you're going to talk about more stuff. and I want to get better at not taking it as seriously while still being able to convey how important politics is and how much it affects your daily life from the local level

up to the national level. I don't want to lose that, but I do desperately want people to feel braver and stronger in these conversations. And it just seems that people feel ill-equipped to be able to express themselves in a way that could even open someone's mind to a different point of view or way of looking at the world. Well, go get the book. I disagree.

Winning arguments without losing friends. It's available everywhere you buy books now? That's right. Yeah. As of today, thank you guys so much. I appreciate you. Jessica Tarlow. I mean, I'm never going to look like that again.

Why? I mean, that's a really good picture. Yeah. I mean, you get... You look like to be the same way. That's how you need to be here. Your hair's a little shorter, but you're giving to that. All right, great.

So I look like that every day. Yes. Go by the book. Thank you guys. It's Jessica Tarlove. It's the breakfast cloak. Good morning. Hold on.

Every day I wake up. Wake your ass up. The breakfast club. You don't finish or y'all's done? Didn't catch the latest Roland Martin unfiltered podcast? Here's what you missed. There should not be a single law enforcement agency. It does not have body cameras.

It's real. Black farmers have been under a. This is just the latest example of them just slapping DEI on anything. It's raw. And I'm sitting here going, they are playing y'all for fools. Catch Roland Martin's daily commentary on the Black Information Network. And download Roland Martin unfiltered on the IHart radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. This is an IHart podcast.

Guaranteed Human.