The Breakfast Club - INTERVIEW: Jessica Tarlov Talks Trump Vs.Harris, Tim Walz, Josh Shapiro, Fox News' 'The Five,' Israel & Gaza

Episode Date: August 7, 2024

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Wake that ass up in the morning. The Breakfast Club. Morning, everybody. It's DJ Envy, Jess Hilarious, and Charlamagne Tha Guy. We have a special guest with us this morning. We have Jessica Tarloff. Welcome. Thank you for having me.

How are you feeling this morning? I'm good. Yeah, up early. Well, we got to talk about some breaking news. I want to stay with Jessica. You know, we worked together once when we both did Piers Morgan's show. Yeah. And I've told you this off air, but I really appreciate you I want to say with Jessica, you know, we worked together once when we both did Piers Morgan's show.

And I've told you this off air, but I really appreciate you because I watch all the news networks. I watch CNN, MSNBC, Fox. And if you don't watch these networks, you don't realize there's people actually on Fox News who push back on a lot of the misinformation and false narratives that exist on that network. And you're one of them. Well, thank you. And it was great to be on Piers' show thank you. And it was great to be on Pierce's show with you. And it's great to be at Fox. I think liberals should show up at Fox more often. A lot of persuadable

voters out there. And you have better conversations. It never appealed to me to kind of sit around a table with four or five people who are all kind of parroting the same thing or you're looking for that one little piece that could differentiate you. So I've had a great time at Fox. I'm glad you said that for that one little piece that could differentiate you um so i've had a great time at fox i'm glad you said that because that's something that i've uh i've

i've suggested to a lot of liberals you know especially the vp now running for president yeah come go on fox president obama used to do it you know you gavin newsom did it when he started doing it they started talking about him being for president. Secretary Buttigieg does it all the time. Go on there. Well, Tim Walz was on two weeks ago. He did America's Newsroom, which is a hard news program from 9 to 11 in the morning. And he was great. He's super affable no matter what environment he's in. But I love it when I see elected officials showing up.

Brett Baier, who hosts Special Report, he has a segment called Common Ground where he brings on a Democrat and a Republican. And Democrats, even as left as Elizabeth Warren, are clamoring to get on there. It's a great venue for people to show up on. And just if you want to talk to the most people possible, you're going to go to Fox. How'd you end up there?

So I went to graduate school in England. I did a PhD in politics. And I back to the U.S. and worked in polling for Bill Clinton's old pollster. And then he was a contributor at Fox and he's very centrist Democrat guy called Doug Schoen. And he started pushing me to do media. It was actually just like a great mentoring boss move. He said, you know, when you work for someone who you can't ever be, you know, no one's going to hire me. They're going to hire Doug to do the job. He said, you have to start building your own brand. And so he called in a favor and just said, I have this girl who works for me. She's really smart. Give her a shot. And

I started going on and the relationship, you know, just went from there. And I started doing more and more shows. Sean Hannity gave me a shot in primetime and I started doing his show a lot. And I got hired in 2017, you know, soon after Hillary lost. And I've been there ever since. I was going to ask, you know, how many times have you been threatened on Fox News in the DMs of people at all? A lot or not too many? I mean, threatened is extreme. My Twitter timeline, that's the only social media that I have. And I only got it actually when I started coming on Fox a lot because Hannity, in fact, told me,

people need to have a way to be able to reach you. And it's a good way, or it used to be a good way to consume news. Now it's impossible to know what's true or not, or fake on on X, I should call it. But my timeline is brutal. I mean, people are not the loudest voices are the cruelest. If they meet you in person, they're so friendly, which I can't stand, you know, everyone hiding behind the keyboard warriors of it all. But there are a lot of people who are really supportive from conservatives. I mean,

we have a huge Democratic viewership on The Five. So over 20 percent of the viewers are liberals. And we have the highest number of independents as well from all the networks. So a lot of support. And now the way that it works and that's how I see a ton of what you guys are talking about because of clip culture. You see like a little sound bite and the liberal clip first or whatever you would call it take stuff off the five all the time right you've been getting yeah you've been going viral a lot but i mean like i said it's because people aren't used to seeing somebody push back well they always say oh i bet she's gonna this is her last time appearing on fox or she's gonna be fired i'm like well no I've been there, you know, eight years.

And I assume I'm not getting fired. And I just, I didn't even think about that. It's like, damn, you get the opposite of what most people on Fox get. Because you probably get the MAGA crazies who come up to you bugging out. Because I was at lunch one time. It was me and Kennedy because me and Kennedy are super cool. And it was me, Kennedy, and Brian Kilmeade was there. And this guy walks up to Brian and goes, are you Brian killed me?

And Brian goes, yeah. And he goes, I just wanted to tell you, go fuck yourself. Jesus. I'm like, holy shit. That was actually a few months ago. You had security though, right? Yeah, my security was there. You didn't have no problem with me.

You're like, I was going to be Brian. You got to figure this out on your own, bro. I didn't have no problem with me. I had a problem with Brian. Yeah, it's definitely, you know, because our offices are just down the block from where we are here. And Manhattan is not full of many conservatives. So there's definitely a lot of you encounter folks who are not fans of people that work at Fox.

Outside of New York, though, where it is Fox country, people are so nice. Really friendly. very traditional, what you think of as nice conservative values. And I just, so I have two daughters. I just got back from maternity leave and the RNC was my first week back. Wow. Yeah. So I land and 20 minutes later, Donald Trump's ear gets shot. And I was like, oh, my God, I don't think I can do this. You know, it was just a lot, such a swirl. And everyone I met in Milwaukee could not have been nicer. You know, everyone does say, I don't agree with your politics. But and I think it's part of what makes actually Fox so successful in general, but definitely versus the other networks that they really try to amplify your personal life. I mean, it's something Kennedy obviously has excelled in her whole life. You know, she talks about everything from her daughters, her dog, her ex-husband, her life, you know, everything.

Michael Jordan hitting on her. Michael Jordan hitting on her, her relationship with people like you, what it's like to have had such a crazy life. And then the viewers, whether they like your politics or not, they feel something kindred with you. And so I think that's definitely helped me get through whatever shit has hurled at me online. I was going to say, so what do you think about, yesterday it was broken that Kamala Harris is picking Tim Walz.

What's your thoughts on that? So I actually thought it was going to be him. Really? Why? Just based on the last couple of days. So Josh Shapiro definitely seemed like the smart pick. He's the guy. He was the guy. I mean, the Baruch Obama of it all.

You know, I loved it. Baruch Obama. That's what we call him. Baruch Obama. And you could tell that the Republicans, they've not only been floundering with what do they do about Kamala, they did not know what to do about Josh Shapiro. I mean, he is the absolute opposite of J.D. Vance, right?

Like the genuine article, when you hear either of them speak, one sounds like he's still in law school and the other sounds like he could be president of the United States. And so I had thought it was going to be Josh Shapiro and we need Pennsylvania's electoral votes. So all of that was pretty aligned. And then stories started to leak out about how much Kamala's team was enjoying Tim Waltz's team and Tim Waltz personally. And I don't want to make it into like this has become a vibes election. But I think the fact that Tim Walz was the guy to first say these Republicans, they're just weird, right? Because

everyone has been searching for a way to describe Donald Trump. You know, we've gone through all the usual stuff talking about the race baiting, how bad his policies are, et cetera. But when he's up there talking about electrocuting sharks or the late great Hannibal Lecter, you're like, how do I actually put into words how weird this is? And Tim Walz was the first guy to do that. He was on-

Yeah, but that don't have no legs. And I feel like, and weird is an understatement. Weird almost sounds cute. I think what's going on, and again, I started with, I thought it should have, Josh Shapiro makes the most sense on paper in all of this, is that everyone has gone back to their corners. So Republicans and Democrats are where they're going to go. And you're just focused on like

100,000 moderates that are in these four or five key swing states. And they have been saying in survey after survey, I don't want to hear about January 6th anymore. I don't want to hear about threat to democracy. I want to hear about your policies. I want the rhetoric toned down. You know, people are sick of it. They don't want to hear that it's the end of the world tomorrow, whether you're saying it's because Donald Trump's going to become president or like when AOC said climate change is going to wipe out the planet by 2028 or whatever it is. And I think that Tim Walz has a vibe that not only made her feel comfortable, but that people who are looking for toning down of the rhetoric are going to-

I don't think you should tone down the rhetoric though. I know, you're very, I appreciated when we were on Pierce's show together, you know, we were, you know, I felt bad for Dave Rubin who was sitting between us because it was like a threat to democracy, you know, cookie there. He was just sitting in the middle and we were going at it. But I agree with you. I think you should we should never stop talking about that.

But unfortunately, the way it works is the people that we need to win over don't want to hear it of any anymore. It's baked in. But, you know, the country says that they're tired of two white old men running for president. I think that just adds to it. They didn't want to see Trump or Biden. People weren't excited about it. It seems like it brings that energy right back into it. He's only six months older than

the vice president. He just looks older. He looks like he's 75, 80. He does. He did have a great line that if you were a teacher for 20 years, you would look like that, too. I mean, Kamala looks great and he looks particularly bad for a 60 year old. But yes, he was also the football coach. I think it was. But he is bringing that boomer dad energy to it.

And I think that she ended up going with someone that she felt more comfortable with. And, you know, people will pick this apart. They'll say, which I think has a lot of merit. You know, Josh Shapiro was supportive of school vouchers and the teacher unions were not particularly thrilled with that. Labor leaders who have been giving interviews have put Walls and Beshear at the top of their list. And we know that Democrats don't win without labor unions. But isn't it nuanced with the school voucher thing? Because Governor Shapiro is also supportive of public schools as well.

He's dumped a lot of money into public schools, especially the breakfast programs there. Oh, totally. But Tim Walz is breakfast and lunch. Oh, okay. So you get your lunch too, no matter your income. I think that it really came down to what she was comfortable with. And I think that even though she has outperformed expectations the last couple of weeks, I think she has risen to the occasion in a way that a lot of people didn't expect.

And I know you've always been a fan of Kamala's, but there are a lot of Democrats who didn't see it right in 2019, 2020 said, you know, she had her first huge rally in oakland and we thought this is this is it right this is the woman that can do it and we were so despondent after hillary's loss and thought that this was the woman that could take over that mantle and it just flamed out right and she has seemed like that person over the last couple of weeks but she's more nervous than someone that's running for president you know i've seen more of the real her yeah over the last couple oh totally yeah but she has i think it's part of the authenticity but the right will make it out to be unprepared nervous etc and i think she wanted to be with someone that made her feel comfortable and i think that's

what tim walls did yeah there might be something to that though i mean another thing people are going to point to is the fact she hasn't done an official press conference yet she hasn't done any interviews right so so you know if the narrative for uh biden was they were hiding him keeping him in the basement didn't want him to talk that can't be her narrative no yeah and the rallies don't count right i mean they're going to be great events the rally in atlanta with megan b salian was fabulous she's in philly tonight i think it's a 10 000 person crowd but she's got to sit down and do the interviews and i said this on fox last week i really think she should do an interview where she lets them play the tape of all of the really

progressive things that she said you know talking about defunding the police, talking about health care for, you know, people who are here undocumented and explain from a policy perspective why she changed her mind. That these are things that you believe in in principle, right, that we treat every person with the same level of humanity and dignity. When you actually get into governing, this is how the nuts and bolts of it work. And give a really boring interview where you just seem like a policy wonk and show that you were actually doing everything with Biden. I think the Biden team didn't do her a great service by kind of pushing her.

I'm not talking about being in charge of the border because Joe Biden was in charge of the border when he was VP. That's very typical. But I don't think they've shown a bright enough light on her for the things that she was doing and doing well. I agree. Like apparently the idea to cap insulin at $35, that came out of the Harris side of things. That's one of the most popular policies. Give it to her. Like give her her flowers. The small business stuff in the American Rescue

Plan. Totally. The money for rural broadband, for HBCUs, you know. And she's done a great job talking about the Dobbs decision, obviously. $285 million to mental health initiatives. Yeah. And also, they didn't play up that she was, you know, the top cop of California. I think she's been trying to distance herself from that, but she shouldn't. No, lean in. Yeah.

For this election, like everyone is in their corners. You have these moderates who did want a Josh Shapiro. Come out and tell them about everyone you prosecuted. How is Fox going to spin the Tim Walz thing? Because I got some ideas, right? I'm not giving them ideas, but this is what I think they're going to do. This is giving them ideas.

No, it's not. This is what I think they're going to do. They know already. I think they're going to point to the far left being anti-Semitic. Oh, yeah. And they're going to point to a lot of anti-Semitism that might exist in the Democratic Party. Because a lot of people have already been asking. I was watching CNN last night.

Dana Bash asked Nancy Pelosi, why is Josh Shapiro getting so much flack over his Israel Gaza stance when him and Tim Walz. It's the same. Identical. Yeah. I think that's going to be one. flack over his Israel Gaza stance when him and Tim Walz. It's the same. It's identical. Yeah. Yeah. I think that's going to be one. I think Fox News is going to run videos of the aftermath of George Floyd, the riots and the city burning in Minnesota. I think they're going to play that and say he was in charge of all of this. I think those are the two ways that they're going to attack. Definitely. And I, you know, I'm, I'm Jewish. I, I think our party has an antisemitism problem that they don't want to deal with properly. And I think that the way

that Josh Shapiro has been treated does reflect that to some degree, even the anxiety about it popping up and you'll see left-wing commentators like Ahmadi Hassan, for instance, saying, you know, Josh Shapiro is fantastic. Why do you want to anger this part of the base? Right. That's that's going to be upset about this. That's part of the protests, the college campus protests, et cetera. And you're totally right. Josh Shapiro has a record of statements and opinions on Israel that is exactly the same as the four finalists. If you took the quotes, you could say it was Andy Bashir or Josh Shapiro, Mark Kelly, Tim Walz. I mean, Tim Walz has gone and taken selfies with

Netanyahu. No one has brought that up at all. Shapiro called Netanyahu out. He was one of the first elected officials that I remember doing. Which is how the majority of American Jews feel. You know, we don't like Netanyahu. Israelis don't like Netanyahu. How should they handle Israel, though? How should they handle that situation? Because it seems very, they're walking on eggshells when they speak about it and they talk about it on the inside. How would you advise that they handle it? Well, I think the priority, what you should just be saying every single day, and I hate that it's dropped out of the discourse, is bring the hostages home.

That's what this is about. There are still dozens of people that are being held in captivity in Gaza by Hamas. That's a priority. And Kamala was asked. She landed in the tarmac in Atlanta before her rally last week. And she was very clear Israel has a right to defend itself. And I think that you're seeing that play out. But now that we have what's going on with Iran and all of this, this is going, it seems like going to blow up into a larger problem in the

Middle East than just being able to say this is about Israel and what's gone on in Gaza. But I think it would be smart for Vice President Harris to continue on the track that Biden has been on. I mean, the proposal that has gotten us the closest to peace and the hostages coming home was honed out of that administration. I think Secretary Blinken has done a great job. And if I were her, I wouldn't change anything for how it is because it's holding together the coalition and the way to win the election. And it seems like moving the needle with nanyahu as much as you can i mean they have been it's it sounds like from the reporting you know behind the scenes really forceful with him and just saying kind of like stop fucking around like i

don't want to see anything in the west bank i don't want you to be giving any more power to any right wingers in this like get the hostages home and you know we're out so i i would continue on with where joe biden has been going with this if i were her and she should speak to it and i i would address it even with the josh not picking josh shapiro like why not say something like they're gonna eat her up about that i i really do because even when the language they're using when they say uh they didn't want to pick Shapiro, they picked Wallace because he does the least damage. Yeah, it's a do no harm.

What does that mean? Where's the damage coming from? Well, I do think with Shapiro, that part of that is the teacher's union issue, that that could break up the labor coalition. But there is anxiety. I mean, my text messages when the announcement came out was full of my friends who are Jewish

with some just disappointed, wanted her to go for it, just to say kind of like, fuck you to everybody. And I'm going with the guy that makes the most electoral sense, a guy who people could see as presidential, right, that he's on his way to that. And Tim Walz, it should be noted, does not seem like that. And that's part of the do no harm principle and kind of why Obama picked Biden. I mean, the corollaries are interesting between that.

I mean, Joe Biden was someone that could shore up the blue wall for him, right? He had that affable way of talking. Some of it were gaffes, but no one thought Joe Biden was a bad guy, and no one thinks Tim Walz is a bad guy. Well, that depends. Those of us who knew about the 94 crime bill and the 86 mandatory minimum sentence, we didn't think he was the greatest guy.

Those of us who knew, you know, he gave the eulogies at segregationists, you know, like Strom Thurmond's funerals. I'm from South Carolina, so that's how I know. No, I understand. Yeah, and I certainly hear it at work. And I'm not saying he's a bad guy, but there's a lot of bad policy. There is a lot of bad policy. There has been also a lot

of repentance for bad policy. Is it? I think, I mean, he certainly... I think the best atonement is legislation when it comes to legislation. Well, don't you think that Biden has, at least looking at the Biden-Harris record or what went on under the Obama years, that there has been some repentance from that on a policy issue?

I don't think so. Not enough in regards to the crime bills. I don't think so. I mean, I think he has made an effort. And it never goes far enough for anyone. And part of that is the structure of, you often need bipartisan support for effort. And it never goes far enough for anyone. And part of that is the structure of you often need bipartisan support for something. And what are you going to get? I mean, the crime bill that was bipartisan under the Trump administration that Tim Scott did, it doesn't move the needle, really. I don't think that much. And it's difficult to really have kind of soaring legislation that is going to make a massive difference. I, at least from how he's spoken about it, I feel like Joe Biden has a lot of regret about things that he signed on to.

The Clintons have obviously spoken about that as well. But you can't undo damage that you've done to people's lives like that. So that's something that will hang over them. Do you think that they will debate? Or do you think it's not going to happen? Kamala Harris and Donald Trump? I mean, I certainly think they should. I think that she should say three debates.

And I think it's fair to start with September 10th on ABC because that was an agreed upon one and then do a Fox debate and then do a something else debate, maybe a Univision debate, something. I think they absolutely should. And the contrast will be really stark. It's been interesting to see all of the negatives about Biden's age and his competency have now moved over to Trump, now that there's only one really old

guy in the race. And I think that even, excuse me, even if she has some moments where she stumbles, she's still going to look like the vibrant, fresh alternative in all of this. And he's going to seem like an old sexist guy that's yelling at a woman like he did with Hillary. Remember, she was like, why, why are you yelling behind her? Yeah. But that's the reason why I don't think he wants to do it. Like, that's why I'm thinking he's throwing things out there where he feels that she wouldn't do, you know? So it makes it seem like it's her not wanting to do it where obviously he doesn't.

I mean, we pay more attention to the press releases and all of this than a lot of people. I think it's all just stupid games, right? Like, my comms person is going to say this, and then your comms person is going to say this. And they should be thinking about, okay, there's a hundred thousand people that i need to convince they're going to pay attention to a debate i should show up for a debate what did you think about him doing uh aiden ross yesterday a streamer i mean i it it was probably a smart electoral move for him but i found it repulsive. I thought it was great.

Only because I feel like you have to meet people where they are. I agree, but Aiden Ross has kind of played around certainly in the anti-Semitic with like a Nick Fuentes type of character, someone who is eaten at Mar-a-Lago as well. I tend to be, I guess, a bit of a Pollyanna about that, where I think certain people, I'm not talking about deplatforming, and know, I tend to be, I guess, a bit of a Pollyanna about that, where I think certain people, I'm not talking about deplatforming, and I understand they have a base, but if I was running for president, I wouldn't want to sit down with someone who has had given safe harbor to

someone who, you know, thinks the Holocaust was a hoax. Oh, I'm with you, but you know, there's a new voter turning 18 every day, and that dude's demo is like age 13 to 24. And it's just like, yo, sometimes you have to really meet people where they are. I was talking to a lot of liberals yesterday and they were saying to me, we care about young voters, not young people. And I'm like, well, what's the difference? You might energize some of those young people

to register to become young voters. Like for all we know, Donald Trump might've had caused 50,000, 100,000 kids that never thought about voting to go right into the vote yesterday. You don't know. You don't know. And again, that's why I say it was smart electorally from a PR perspective that just plays into liberals hands. Obviously that you say like, this guy is not going to sit down with George Stephanopoulos, but he has no problem going on there. And it's not like you show up and he didn't hold his feet to the fire about anything.

That was part of the controversy with Ronna McDaniel getting hired at MSNBC. I said, I think it's fair to hire her. She has a wealth of knowledge that will be interesting for viewers. She knows how it actually works. But when she's interviewed, ask her about election denialism.

That's the way you do it. That's why you work in journalism. That's why you have a platform. That's why you have a platform. Dems can't really say anything yet because the Vice President hasn't done anything. Interview-wise. She's got to do it.

And I think she will. I'm sure they're figuring out what venue they think is the right one to start off. But I imagine be a Lester Holt or someone like that. I don't know if I wanna, oh, no, I think you should do some of that, but then you should also go to the non-traditional ones.

Like Trump just did when he went to the National Association of Broadcast Journalists. That was different for him. He went and sat down with Aiden Ross. That's very generous to say that was different for him. Yeah, that was different. It was different for all of us. All of us. He went and sat down with aiden that's very generous to say that was different for him it was different for all of us he wouldn't sat down with aiden ross that's a non-traditional outlet to have a big audience i think she needed to do a little bit of both well she's done little things like she was you know she did rupaul's drag race um she should definitely do sit downs

and i think the fact that they are running this very Gen Z focused campaign. I mean, if you go on TikTok, it's Bratz Summer, you know, all over the place. You know, she will be doing things like that. And I know that her team is working to harness all of these big voices. I think Beyonce gave like $4 million. Oh, she did? I thought so. But she's definitely going to do an event. And she's doing fundraising event.

Yeah. And she let her use freedom obviously as her song so i'm sure you're going to be seeing a lot of the big players taylor swift changed her bio on instagram to something like just a cat lady after jd vance went after childless cat ladies you know there will be it's interesting to see because this is kind of surpassing the usual democratic mojo like we know people in people in Hollywood and entertainers tend to lean left. But there seems to be a genuine enthusiasm for Kamala that's different than just, this is the ticket. Right?

Like, kind of as if it were Obama again. Why did white women in 2016 vote against their own interests by supporting Trump? And do you think they'll make that same mistake again this year? It upsets me to this day. I think I joined and listened to a bit of the white women for Harris call and also the white dudes for Harris call. And a lot of it was about that. And it's just feelings of regret and remorse over not doing enough or flat out voting the wrong way, though this tended to be a more liberal crowd. They changed course in 2020. We didn't get Joe Biden because of the usual core constituency. We got those white moderate women back right in the suburbs of

Atlanta, outside of Phoenix, et cetera. I imagine they'll stay the course. I think the Dobbs decision is so electrifying for people and not just because, you know, women want to be able to have abortion on demand or whatever ridiculous right-wing talking point there would be, but because women know that after six weeks you can't even get a heartbeat scan or they know how difficult a time they have had getting pregnant or that, you know, 25 to 30 percent of women are going to have a miscarriage in their lives. And the majority of women who are getting an abortion are people who have already had children, that it's part of family planning. And I think that that's going to be a huge issue for Democrats and one that keeps moderate white women who might vote Republican

if it was a Mitt Romney or someone who seemed normal in all of this and the fold. What do you say to people who feel like Fox shouldn't be allowed to host a debate because they lost the Dominion lawsuit? I think it's silly. Brett and Martha, who will be the anchors for the debate and our election night coverage, are complete straight shooters. I mean, Brett Baier was the last serious interview that Donald Trump did, and he hasn't done it again because Brett humiliated him so much. Remember when he read all the quotes about what people are saying about him and he said, like, why does no one want to

work for you anymore? Right. Trump has something like all of his high level staff. No one's coming back. And they've written in memoirs and done interviews speaking to, you know, ideas of like, can I just go shoot protesters during the Black Lives Matter summer protests? You know, talking about how veterans who get killed are losers, not wanting to go. What was it in Normandy? They didn't want to go to the graves of the veterans because it was raining out. Things like that. That's all coming out from people who worked for Donald Trump. And Brett Baier was the one who really held his feet to the fire

about that. So I think it's silly. I think the two things are completely unrelated. And I understand that there are folks who take issue with Fox. It's part of what I think is important about showing up and that I like that I do because people get genuinely shocked.

They're like, oh, this was going on at Fox. I'm like, yeah, it's going on every single day, you know, on the highest rated show on the network. The five. Yeah. You would be good on CNN now too, though, because CNN, you know, they put both sides up there now. Yeah.

Listen, I have great respect for everybody. I have a lot of friends that work at the other networks. I think that having never Trumpers is not a real reflection of the Republican Party, because whether you like it or not or however you feel about him, it's Trump's party. And, yeah, they do have folks who will show up every once in a while that are supportive of Trump, but they're not the diehards. Right. It's not somebody who saw something in Trump when he came down that golden escalator and understood about, you know, how he was speaking about issues like immigration or how he's talking about the economy and that it really resonated. It seems more like political operators to me than the genuine article. And what's your thoughts on J.D. Vance?

I know you mentioned him a little earlier. What's your thoughts on him? Totally switch sides, like not a Trump supporter, disliking Trump, hating Trump. And then all of a sudden Trump's his best friend. What's your thoughts on that? And the fact that I don't feel like we dive into that enough. About J.D. Vance or just people in general? J.D. Vance.

Listen, I think J.D. Vance was the absolute worst pick for VP for Trump. And that doesn't mean that I think that Trump is going to lose. I think probably even though the forecasts are shifting that he still has a structural advantage. So I'm putting that out there. But J.D. Vance was the only choice that he had that doesn't really move the needle.

He doesn't have a different base than Trump. You know, Trump was winning Ohio. J.D. Vance underperformed Governor DeWine, the Republican governor there, I think by double digits. I think that Trump, if he hadn't been shot, would not have picked J.D. Vance. I think that the fact that J.D. Vance came out there and was the first person to tweet that this was Joe Biden and the Democrats' fault, that he went with J.D. Vance

because he's like a security blanket and he felt good to him and he's not a threat at all. Donald Trump just can't stand anyone that feels threatening and J.D. Vance, no one looks at him and thinks he's presidential. You know, and I think that that was also a miscalculation because now that people do see Trump as the old guy, you are looking to the vice president more than you would be. Right. So if he had someone like at the RNC, I met Glenn Youngkin for the first time, the governor of Virginia. I was blown away. Also, by the fact that he's six foot nine, which I did not know.

Charming, very policy oriented. The crowd loved his speech that he fine. And it would have sent that kind of message. So J.D. Vance, I think it sounds like from reporting that it was his sons that were pressuring him to do it. Like, no, dad, pick my friend, pick my friend. Art of Heritage Foundation. Well, they've done a number with that one. I love that they're like, oh, Project 2025, we have nothing to do with it. A hundred former Trump officials are working on it. J.D. Vance was their pick.

That's what they wanted. Totally. Well, I think it's because it's a blank slate. You can do anything you want to him. I mean, someone who would write a book like that, give the number of interviews that he's done talking about Trump and, you know, that he's maybe America's Hitler. I don't know how you reverse course on that. I understand how you change your mind about single payer health care. I don't understand how you think that America's Hitler is what the country needs.

He went from calling him Hitler to giving him Hawk tour. I mean, it's just like a full throat endorsement. Okay. Jesus Christ. It's the morning. I do love his wife, though. I think she's great. And they should be using her more. Her speech, her introduction of him at the RNC, I thought was fantastic. She's uber. I mean, they're both uber smart. You know, you don't get to Yale Law School being a big dum-dum. But they should be using her more. Definitely. But she was a registered Democrat until 2022. And she seems very uneasy with what's going on.

I can't imagine actually if my husband woke up and was like, I'm going to go work for Donald Trump. You said something. You said you think Trump is going to win because he's more, was it structured? He has a structural advantage. When you say structural advantage, what do you mean?

He has a bunch of Republicans across the country who probably won't, who refuse to certify the results of the election. Well, that'll help. And he's got the Supreme Court if he challenges it, you know. All of those things. But I just mean the way the electoral college is, you know, Kamala's favored to win the popular vote. The Democrat basically always wins the popular vote. And then we lose the electoral college. I mean, it's crazy how how far you have to outperform the Republican. If you're the Democrat in the one one-person, one-vote standard

to be able to win. And so that's why I still think that he has an advantage. And we're getting there in the enthusiasm gap, but Donald Trump's supporters are diehards in a way that she has yet to build that kind of fervor, that Obama 2012 fervor. That's why I don't like the Tim Walz pick. That's why I feel like you can put another star on the ticket.

The same way you said somebody like Trump is, you know, scared to have somebody that can outshine him. You got to, what'd you call him? Barista Obama. What'd you call it? Baruch Obama. Baruch Obama. Barista Obama.

You got to put Baruch Obama. You got to put Governor Josh Shapiro. He's another star. I feel like that, to me, that, that, I me that that I'm not saying so it locks things up, but I think that's a better. Well, there's no doubt that the Trump team is happy about this, you know, and any day that Republicans are happy is a bad day for me. But I do think that Tim Walz will surprise and delight people in a way that they're not expecting. You know, he has this America's Dad background, being a teacher and a football coach. He flipped a conservative seat in Minnesota in 2006 when he entered Congress. One of the stories that I found the most engaging and just very sweet,

his daughter came to him, I think it was after the Parkland shooting, and he had an A rating from the NRA. And she said, Dad, guns are the problem here. You know, it's always the guns. Now he has an F rating from the NRA. He is someone who is willing to listen to people, to change his mind. He has apologized, going back to the point that you made about how Minneapolis was handled in the wake of George Floyd's murder. He said it was an abject failure. And this election, with both Kamala and Tim Walz, I think will be a lot about whether people are willing to accept apologies for things and to accept that folks have evolved.

And going back to your point that we have to keep talking about the threat to democracy and all of it, those two people are the ones standing in the way of Donald Trump. And that's what it comes down to. And that's, you know, got to be the chorus in all of this

until November 5th. That's going to be interesting. You just made me think about something because, I mean, I said that they were going to start pointing the finger at him in regards to the aftermath of George Floyd. But if they start saying he was a guy that let cops do whatever on top of already painting Kamala the top cop, that's not going to play well on social media.

No. It's weird because it matters so much. And I feel like it has, especially for Kamala, changed the course of the last two weeks, kind of the love that she's been getting. But at the end of the day, those aren't the tried and true voters. You know, we didn't have Joe Biden as president because of social media. We had Joe Biden as president because Gen X and boomer black people showed up at the polls. That is true.

So it's not, you know, the vibes aren't real life. And we'll have to see how that plays out. But a lot of these kids that are posting about Gaza or, you know, are into Bratzhammer right now. And then, you know, will fall out of love with her over whatever stance she's taking. Or they just find out that she's actually a prosecutor that put a lot of people behind bars, were they going to vote anyway? I'm not completely sure.

Yeah, I agree. All right, well, we appreciate you for joining us. How can they find you? Like you said, you're not on social like that. I'm on Twitter, which I know no one wants to be around. But you can watch The Five, which is 5 o'clock, on Fox News Channel and why don't you have your own podcast or something i'm working on it uh yeah okay love to do that and yeah thank

you guys so much for having me no thank you for coming all right you can catch her on the five like she said jessica tarloff and we appreciate tarloff tarloff tarloff tarloff all of it is good okay yeah it's the breakfast club good It's The Breakfast Club. Good morning. Wake that ass up. Early in the morning. The Breakfast Club.