The Breakfast Club - INTERVIEW: Joseph Sikora, Isaac Keys and Kris D. Lofton On Continuing The 'Power' Story, 50 Cent Loyalty + More

Episode Date: November 11, 2025

Today on The Breakfast Club, Joseph Sikora, Isaac Keys and Kris D. Lofton On Continuing The 'Power' Story, 50 Cent Loyalty. Listen For More!YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@BreakfastClubPower1051FMSee omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

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There are people out there that absolutely know what happened. Listen to Paper Ghosts, The Texas Teen Murders, on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. I'm Robert Smith, and this is Jacob Goldstein, and we used to host a show called Planet Money. And now we're back making this new podcast called Business History about the best ideas and people and businesses in history. And some of the worst people, horrible ideas, and destructive companies in the history of business. First episode, how Southwest Airlines use cheap seats and free whiskey to fight its way into the airline is. The most Texas story ever. Listen to business history on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

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The breakfast club. You're all finished or y'all done? Morning, everybody. It's DJ Envi. Just hilarious. Shalame Nagai. We are the Breakfast Club. Lauren LaRose is here as well.

We got some special. guests in the building. Yes, indeed. We got Chris Lofton, we got Isaac Keys, and we got Joseph Saccara. Welcome, gentlemen. How are you feeling, man? How's every day? Fantastic. You saw that the first episode. It dropped us heavy. Last week, that's right. Set it up for the rest of the season. It's going to be fire season. How do y'all approach doing a final season? How does that even make make y'all feel? Is it bittersweet? How do you approach it? I think, like you just said, bittersweet. But, you know, I think once we know it's the final season, I think it makes us to go a little harder. You know what I mean? Make sure we make the scenes a little bit more

I think the writing room did the same thing and just making sure that every episode had a main factor to it. And you know, as actors we're going to put our best foot forward and I think we did a great job doing that. Is it always that feeling like the last show would be so amazing but like yeah we just can't end it like that. We got to do another one or another one. Is that ever

a feeling or you're like, nah, this is a rap? Well, I think that Gary and I just wanted to make sure that we gave Chicago Chicago's due. A big thing was that I didn't produce the first season just the second and the third season and a big thing for me was getting Chicago better, you know, a little bit more realistic. Like even the power show is kind of

like New York adjacent, but we wanted to be Chicago adjacent. But it's like it's a real place. We wanted to show the diversity within the diversity. Like I think it was kind of like like a globular south side of Chicago, a globular west side. And I just mean that there was no specificity or details. And we do a lot more detail oriented stuff in the third season. And I think that the city is really going to bless this show for this final season. What did you do to do that? What was your research like leaving the season? Well, yeah, you know, I mean, I moved to New York 26 years ago. So it was like, you know, I went back early and I met with cops and robbers and asked and learned more about the city.

Because when I was there, there was really, it was really a city of gang nations. You know, there was folks and people and and a lot of things that were rules that were street rules that were followed. And now with the emergence of kind of like all these renegade gangs and gangs within that used to be nations that kind of went against each other, where would the pipeline be coming from? How would Tommy Egan survive in this? Who would want to just make the money and who would just want to see him dead? And I think that we do a lot of responsible storytelling

in like there's a million people going at each other on the south side and on the west side and where the distribution comes from and some of the cartels that would really truly exist that mimic the cartels in real life. And that's what we did. Were there any things in your research trying to get it so real where you were like,

nah, we don't want to touch this just because of what may actively be happened or just because history-wise, you just don't want to you don't want to ruffle any better yeah well you know yeah i mean chris and i are both from chicago and there's definitely you know what i mean it's not that i'm this age this old it's like in my 30s and 40s even going back i mean i remember it'd be like you you know you'd you want people from the past popping up and being like yo man what's up how you why'd you put it like that or why'd you do this like this and so you do there is kind of um you know it's it's adjacent

but it but it mimics the real life it's like people if you know you know style and i think there's a a lot of wink-wick nond-nods to real-life stuff going in there. But, yeah, I mean, you want to be careful. You know, Tommy's such an interesting character, Joseph. Like, you know, he's always either chasing control or power or loyalty or revenge. Like, what's driving him this season? Man, that's a great question. A lot of, I think a lot of it is revenge and kind of this, this hunger for power and how

that the power, you know, they say power corrupts, complete power corrupts completely. Yeah, absolute, absolute power collapse, absolutely. Charlie's always just a little smarter than me. It's just true. He's just queen. He's clever witnesses on there. He's smart. But that's what it is.

And I think that, again, it's like, can you have it all? And that's the question, because Tommy's going for it all this time. And is he going to sacrifice loyalty with Diamond? Is he going to do backhanded deals with Ginnard, who's a backhanded deal master? But, yeah, it's a really exciting season. Gary Lennon, again, our showrunner in the whole writing room did a fantastic job. I'm so proud of them. and I think the fans are going to be really happy.

Yeah, for sure. I always feel like Diamond is trying to move righteous in a dirty world. I agree. I'm doing a great job then. That's exactly what I'm trying to portray. I think, you know, it is, like you just said, like you can't, it's not morals and values too much in the street. Now, this is street codes.

You try to go by those things, but those morals and values get you kill. And he was trying to play both sides for so long. And I think now you start to see, he's starting to like, he's choosing the side. He's both feet in. You know, now he's actually kind of looking at, Tommy, like, why you were in love? You know, looking at his brother, Gennar, because he wants

that brother relationship, I believe, but at the same time, that's going to be its downfall. I mean, it's all about relationships and alliances right now and how you choose and what side do you're going to choose to go on. And I think Diamond is in that, caught in that little quandary right now. You guys' relationship, I was going to say Diamond and Tommy,

Joseph and Isaac, you guys' relationship in the new season kind of mimics what the relationship was with Ghost and Tommy a bit. In the reverse, yeah. Yeah, and it's weird because it's like now you're in that power seat no pun intended but now you're in a driver's seat right and you're able to like choose what you say what you don't say and you're kind of like controlling him

was that purposely done for the fans who've been following all the shows to kind of put that together yes yeah I think so but I also love how it mimics just like that hurt people hurt people and if you know you kind of follow the faults of your father or whatever that expression of Charlemagne will correct me but there you know the sins of the father

It's like there is this kind of reverseness that's happening too. And we'll see what happens to Tommy because ultimately what happened to ghost. So, you know, we've got to see what happened. Definitely. There was a moment in the first episode where there was that when you came to talk to him in the warehouse, I felt like you turned into ghosts in that moment. But Tommy checked himself too. Yeah, but I felt like Ghost would have did that to you.

It was almost like reverse psychology. Like you were just telling him what you know he needed to hear. I don't know, man. Ghost had a hard time saying, sorry. Yeah. I felt like, I didn't even know you thought that you were checking. yourself in that moment and it's hard to talk about because but it was real i mean i think tommy's an honest character in the way when he's like yo man i should have told you everything i should have done that but it's Tommy gonna do it again that's the that's the thing yes it's like

it was smart it's like kind of manipulative he knew how to he knew how to know how to down like minimise the situation at the time because i thought down was coming high and i think that was a different level of seeing Tommy you know and joseph played that so you know yeah i thought it was a great it's a great thing because it was even hard for me as the character like they're like no bring it i'm like yeah i want me to bring it you know what's it's and they're starting to it starts to build with the character. Chris, how do you see Jinnard? Did I see people call him a smart villain?

Some people call him a monster. Is he just a man trying to out hustle a system that's stacked against him? Man, I think Jinnard is misunderstood because honestly, Isaac hate when I go off into this tangent, but I honestly feel like nobody's looking at it the right way. I feel like because I'm actually from Chicago, I try to implement a lot of what I know the people are going to be watching this, saying like, nah, that ain't how we were doing in Chicago.

y'all are really going to let this white boy come up in here and do that so to me i feel like i'm the voice of the fans so to me i look at janard as to me the only one that got some sense for real because why i'm supposed to not know anything about what Tommy was doing no six years on power i'm supposed to not know that to me this is just a white man in Chicago who may or may not be the police nobody knows like why are we all so trusting in him like nobody and then with my brother i'm like okay you were in prison i heard you like to cut hair in jail that's what you was in there doing right bought you a barbershop put you up you're comfortable you got something to do stay out the way you're on you're on parole you're hot you're not supposed to be touching the

streets you're going to mess up the whole organization if you get called you're going to blow it all up so i'll handle it talk to you we'll deliberate we'll be partners brothers you know that was my my goal my dream didn't work out like that is that difficult to make it make sense because what you just said is i have to make it make it make sense right because you know we look at him from we understand it but this is a new series yes yeah that to me trying to make it make sense. I did create that backstory. I remember I told Joseph, Isaac,

and with Gary Lennon, our showrunner, I created a whole backstory in my head to make some of this make sense because obviously I would never go against my brother trying to kill my brother. That's crazy. But I tried to make it make sense to Gennard. It's like, you, okay,

we're talking about millions of dollars. This organization, CBI, is supposed to be worth millions of dollars. And if he's been in prison for 15 years, that means I kind of know more life without him than with him. And now if we add millions of dollars into the mix, and some new person that nobody knows who's white,

how about I kill both of you? How about I just killed both of you? You ain't even been here for 15 years anyway. I could do without you. You know, so it's like, I don't understand. So that's how I had to convince myself. And sometimes I get too invested in it. And I'm like, yeah, you know what, Janard.

Genard, I don't think it's wrong. You can't get too invested. I know. I get too invested sometimes. And I'll be like, no, this is wrong. Nobody gets Janard. But I'm like, that's exactly how you move. That comes across on screen, though.

I feel like on screen, you're like the little brother that's like, no, I can do this. Listen to me, listen to me, but then you'd be messing up And then you gotta call it Diamond. Thank you, you got the messing up part, right? That's the little brother thing, though. What is up party, people? I'll text him that, tell the day.

As soon as I landed in L.A. I mean, in New York, I told them that. That's funny. I was going to say, and speaking of the brother dynamic, you guys' dynamic is kind of like the same but a bit different in this new season because you're kind of making your own moves and you got your girl and she's, you know,

helping you a bit more. You trust them a little bit more, but you're not at the same time. What do you guys want your relationship to say to people in a regular world about brother relationships, big brother, little brother relationships? People that don't sell drugs or they do? Right. Personally, I would probably say like forgiveness could probably be a thing and love trumps all. And blood is definitely thick and water.

I think I would want people to like take that from it. Like blood is truly thick and water. And your family, I feel like the only people closest to you can hurt you. Because if you don't care about somebody, they can't hurt your feelings. They can't betray you. You know, it has to come from somebody you love. So I feel like learning to forgive and learning that family trumps all is something that I would want people to know.

Well, but blood is finite. Water is infinite. Uh-oh. There's a, you know, there's a finite. That's a real time. Talk that, talk. Yeah. I think water's going to make you survive longer than blood.

You drink that a little bit. You know what I mean? The French soldiers with the Russian horses, I know all that stuff. But the water, that's life-giving. Take it to war, baby. Take it to war. I think, you know, it's real life. Like, you know, we all have family members

that we necessarily don't get along, but we still kind of love them, but we may have to keep it from afar, but we're still trying to figure them out. I think it's really deep about the relationships. I think the whole show really dives into how the relationship and the toxicity of it. You know, like, you know, like, you know, really all you just communicate. If you just communicate with a person,

if his brother, if Diamond just would have gave Gennard a hug, you know, another hug or sometimes, he might even made him feel a little better, or just talked about it. Like, how are you going to kill your brother? Like, it's the deepness and the deafness of what you're willing to lose and sacrifice for what you want the kind of modes you want and then what how does that align in your life like to him killing his brother that wasn't nothing for him some people that's something hard to do we still get on the streets all the time like why why you don't kill you

why you don't kill your brother why you don't you know unlive your brother and it's like can you do that would you be able to do in the world so that tussle i think is just amazing a bit of show the relationship between brothers but you sound like dion sanders man uh-uh i'll take him this this film motivation for some reason he's good he's there sometimes man what does redemption look like for diamond like not a discreet you know he pulling him back i think ultimately what diamond wants is he wants that bill to make make this money have power but he doesn't want all the violence the stuff to go along with it at some point like if it was the best world the coalition everybody working together you know everybody's making money let's just do that and be cool you know and i think that yeah and i think but

It's like, you know, when you see the character, the time of character coming with Joseph play so well, it's like, no, we want more than that. We want more to that. So he's still got to make his moves and make his moves, you know, in alignment with how he wants to move. So that somehow kind of creates that friction between everyone in the sense, because there's so many players in this. You know, we still have the Lattin on the cartel side and how the control do they have. So now we're just trying to, you know, I think Diamond's Redemption is he really just wanted to, he wants to be there, but he, but, you know, it ain't going to work the way he wants it to work. And that's how it works in the streets. Do you think the world will ever look at the gang organization as like anything, for anything righteous they've ever done?

I know with BMF, 50 also tried to talk about the family union and stuff like that. And it's very prevalent that you're that character in this show. But people don't see that. They only say, why would you guys be in a show that showcases all these things? I'm sure you get that question on the time. Do you think the world will ever say, but wait, there was a righteous component to this. There was a family aspect. Yes.

And I think even outside the show, we make sure we do a lot of stuff in the community. I make sure we start we have speaking engagements and talking to make sure we know this is entertainment it's telling a story you know a story of some made up characters of some made of characters

that you know how they move in the streets and how their life and how their family dynamics happen and I think that also by showing that in Chicago with all the things that's going on with the city of Chicago we're able to show the entertainment part of it but we also able to touch on some of the things

of the diversity of the city and how the city is made up in the history and the architecture and just kind of giving some more light on the city in that way as well too but I think it's very important for people to know even as we talk is to make sure that we know that this is a story it's a TV series

it's not real life it's not real life it's the power universe we know that's not you know real life there's so many things that happen that Mustang pulls up anywhere and no parking tickets I know nothing you know I will say that these stories are might not be based on somebody's real life but they are lives that's happening out there

oh for sure there's a time in somebody's oh yeah me and my brother oh man that's how well you me But that's why I think these stories mean so much. And a lot of times, like she said, a lot of people feel like, oh, well, they're idolizing or they're making it seem like this. But for a lot of times, that's what we grew up seeing, right? We grew up seeing the local drug dealers,

and you always wanted to know, well, I always wanted to know, like how did they do their business? How did it work? So I think this kind of gives you an inside false or not false, but primarily true of how it worked and how it got down. So when you tape. I don't think so. Tommy would have been in jail a long time ago, man. He drives the same getaway car.

All right. No, and it's loud. The car, and it is loud. Yeah, there are those aspects. It's hard to drive, too. It'd be pretty easy to peg, Tom. He's not switching up rides all that much. Although in the original power show, they did, you know, some of that, some of that

stick that. I think that when you made that drive to Chicago, you switch cars in the original, right? No, I was like, they booked me out of the car. Let's not talk about season one. I was going to ask, you know, when you talk about street credit and talking about what's real, How important is street code when you're doing these shows? I honestly do think it's important. Honestly, we got to keep it true to what it is,

but also there are some things that we don't want to touch on because it's too real. Like, that's why they don't mention, like, real gangs. We make up gang names because we don't want to seem like we're promoting actual gang violence in the city or making other gangs because our DMs are crazy. I can't speak for everybody, but mine is insane. Like, my DMs get crazy when this show on.

The death threats and a lot of people. Really? Oh, dog. Death threats. Oh, I get crazy DM. So it's like we try to be careful with that. You slip in little vernacular imprabs that every now and again when I see in the cut, I go, yeah, we're in.

Because I'm really from Chicago, so I'll try to slip in on phone in. Every little chance I get, I'll try to slip it in and then because I know the city is going going to be like, bro, I know. I know like that the city of Chicago is behind it. I feel like New York and Chicago are two cities that we don't really, particularly like when actors portray being from there if they're not really from there. Like, we don't want you to come from L.A.

and try to be on a New York TV show saying you a hood dude from New York. I don't know. London Brown crushes it as Uncle Marve. London is an exceptional case. London Brown, shout out to London. That's my dog. But, like, I don't feel like New York and Chicago

likes that that much. L.A. don't like it at all. L.A. is another one. Yeah. L.A. don't like it at all. I also want to know, when y'all shoot so many different films, how do y'all stay in character?

TV shows. TV shows. Yeah, how do y'all say in character in all the shows? Because y'all have different characters in different shows. I mean, for me, the simple version for me

is action and cut. Like, I'm not, I don't get home with you. Yeah, I've never been that guy for real that really, like, takes it home with me. I just... Me neither. Yeah, I just know how to... In the heat of battle,

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Win the tech search. Power up at Lenovo.com. Lenovo, Lenovo. She said, Johnny, the kids didn't come home last night. Along the central Texas planes, teens are dying. Suicides that don't make sense. strange accidents, and brutal murders. In what seems to be, a plot ripped straight out of Breaking Bad. Drugs, alcohol, trafficking of people. There are people out there that absolutely know what happened.

Listen to paper ghosts, the Texas teen murders, on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. I'm Robert Smith. This is Jacob Goldstein, and we used to host a show called Planet Money. And now we're back making this new podcast called Business History about the best ideas and people and businesses in history. And some of the worst people, horrible ideas and destructive companies in the history of business. Having a genius idea without a need for it is nothing. It's like not having it at all. It's a very simple, elegant lesson. Make something people want.

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But also it's like coming from the theater, darling. You know, it's like if you're not going to bring that character home, you're playing the guy for six months, you know what I mean? You're just, you bring it to the theater. That's why you warm up. That's why you get, you know, the whole thing. Can you imagine if Joseph pulled up to pick up his kid from school? He pulled up in the car. Oh, yeah. When I see you, it's so hard to not see Tommy. All of you guys, it's hard to not envision y'all in the show.

I'm like, I was just watching you last night. Like, if you don't need that girl on. Not to me. I think Joseph does a fantastic job acting because he's nothing like Tommy in real life. No, he's not. He's just a nice guy. But the voice is there. He's selling copious amounts of drugs, but other than that.

I'll be wondering with all the spinoffs, what makes four stand out to you creatively and just all of the different shows when you gotta show up as Tommy. Do these shows even feel different? I mean, they don't. When I show up as Tommy, Tommy is Tommy. And I feel like on the original,

it was fun doing the guest that's on the Ghost show. Just to be that, and I love Michael so much. It was always fun to come back and do something with him. But I think that, yeah, Tommy is kind of his own entity. And one of the fun things about taking the character home, I always kept Tommy as close as I needed them those first seasons to make sure. sure that you know everything was right and consistent and that was my job but like now it is fun in

some capacity this you know 10 11 12 years on from the original to be just be like let the light switch go just to see what happens because i'm not even positive what i'm going to do in those situations because i have the luxury of like this character who's got its its own life so you just flip it on sometimes this happens sometimes this i'm like oh that's kind of funny or bizarre or whatever so that that has been a wonderful part of this journey I wanted to know also, too, when you took the audition to play Joseph, or play Tommy, I should say, did you think it would be this far? And did you really, did you want to do it? You was like, the original audition? I wanted to do it so bad because I, well, because, you know, I played around in the streets growing up. And I, you know, I was a very unsuccessful actor for many years. And even in Chicago, a lot of the areas where you, because I was a graffiti writer that many people know. So you know what I mean? You're dipping into these different kind of lifestyles and stuff like that. I based Tommy. a lot on guys that I was scared of growing up and, you know, making your way through. So I felt like, I just like, ah, they're going to hire some pretty guy and they're going

to get it all wrong. And, but so I passed on the initial audition for it just because I was getting married. And so I was just, I can't make the audition. But then it came back around because you guys know that Fifth was originally going to play the ghost character. And then when he wasn't going to anymore, then they had re-auditions for everything. And I, I like the script. I thought this would be great.

And I was a fan of Fifth anyway. and then when I actually got it I was the only one that auditioned from New York and so it was five auditions and finally in LA we did the chemistry reads and blah blah blah and when I booked it I was really I was super excited and I said the fifth I said it's amazing

man I hope it goes more than a season or whatever he goes it's going to go seven and he was almost right I mean it's six and a half it's pretty toxic I mean actually more if you think about it if you add all the spin-offs now it's been it's been whatever you know so what series means more to you the original power or the

Spinner? It's hard to say. I just like working with Gary Lennon as a writer. That's why it means. I mean, I think that just Gary bringing in the authenticity of his brothers being, you know, Westies from Hell's Kitchen and Gary's brings in so much of the life of it. And even though Tommy's from South Side, Jamaica, I think just like the whole, the authenticity of New York that Gary brings to the character has really been a dance of two people. So whatever Gary's writing means most to me. But I like, I love these guys. These are brothers and brothers for life. And I'm so. I'm happy that I have, you know, got to have friends like this on the Force show. So that means a lot, but it was also, it meant a lot for me to produce the show. And finally, because it's hard, man. People don't want to give you. Even when you've earned your seat at the table, you guys know that. Nobody wants to let you have that seat.

And everybody's still vying for it. And even when I'm doing it, especially the second season, you had people like picking at you, trying to put you down to, like, playing weird games behind the scenes. You're just like, stop this nonsense. What is happening here? But I think that I'm really proud of the third season. And I think the fans are going to like it the best out of any of the show. season of the fourth show now i said what's more grueling NFL oh or being an actor right because

on monday you're going to get what you did wrong in the NFL right but as an actor you get that every day that show comes on and in common so what's more grueling for yourself you know i don't miss you know you they always ask you what are you miss from football i'm like you don't miss being out there was like at this point of my life no like no you know me because it was you know the physical aspect but for me playing football was actually more of a grind than his acting um you know i was always trying to that I was making the team, I was on actor roster with the practice squad. I didn't know where I was going to be at next.

You know, but, you know, being emotionally unavailable to a lot of outside relationships because I just felt unstable in the game at the time. And I felt like I was giving so much to the game, but it wasn't giving back to me. You know, so, and if I got in the acting, I did that, I don't know. You know, they say, maybe you took to me hits in the head

because you chose something that's very, you know, similar, you know, because it's still, it's unstable as well, too. But the things I've learned in the game of football, I was able to transfer over to acting for as a discipline and for us to work ethic in far as to knowing how to deal with rejection that we get so many no

without them even saying no to our face in acting. You know, so it's like you just wait for that one yes and you realize how many people said have to say yes in order for you to get this role. You know, and then so I look at it now it's like, you know, you're grateful for it, but it's, yeah, it's both of them are grueling their own aspects, man. So, you know, I'm just, the grind don't stop, it just changes.

No, Isaac and Chris, in regards to dealing with 50 cents, what did y'all learn from Little Meach? I've never wanted to be on 50's bad side, that's all. I just learned that, and I never, I never want to owe 50 money ever in life. Not from Little Meets, but just in general. Just from no one 50. Never won money. Never won money because I know he wants it by Monday.

And I just, you know, and I just want to stay on this good side. That's it. I don't know. You know, with him and the whole Little Moose thing, I have no clue. I'm not privy to truly what's going on there. I just know my loyalty runs deep. I know the day I booked this role, one of the first things I did, you would appreciate it, Charlemagne, because you know, you're a little messy.

First thing I did was I went straight to. to Jaru's Instagram and press the unfollow. It says follow back right now. This says follow back because I'd already met Jiao. I'd already met him. But long before I got up out, I met him and he followed me, his manager and everything. And I said, the one thing that will not happen, Curtis Jackson will not choose to just be sitting down one day and go on Jaroos page and see you followed by Chris D. Loft and you will not. And I just unfollow them.

No, Jaro on a playlist anymore? No, no, heavens's no. Heavens though. Everybody's fifth got problems when you won't follow. I don't follow. Rick Ross, everybody. Everybody.

I don't follow any of them. I swear. When we get off, I'm going to show you. Just going to say, follow back. Here's the viral moment. Follow back. I saw T.

No, I can't answer. What did you do? Hey, man, I've learned. As you talked about football in the United States, I just walk in my light, man. Like, I don't get involved in the mess. I don't get involved in anything. I got too many other problems with my own to be worried about something else.

and what's going on over there because you never know all the complete details. You never know so why pass judgment on and try to, you know, do whatever. I just mind my business, man. Simple.

Simple answer. Joseph, I once said I saw TMZ ran into you, they asked you about the Meech situation. 50 posted and it said you was too smart. You got up out of there easy. I don't know if I got out of there easy.

I think I chose my words pretty carefully. But it's because I think Mietz is a nice young man and I think that what people forget is that Fifth paid for his acting classes. I mean, he invested into Meach. So there's a certain amount there that's, you know, there was love. And basically what I said to Team Z, if there was love, there can be love again.

You know, there's a certain amount of redemption or forgiveness within there. So it's also just like I try to stay in my lane as well. You know, it's not my, again, like Isaac said, it's not really my business. But I want everybody to get along. But if you can't, man, I'm going to keep it moving. Exactly. You really think, though, that there could be love again. It seems like 50's kind of like done with that situation.

I mean, then he's probably done, you know, but I always, I, there's always hope. There's always, always. No, it's interesting with power too, because power is built on, loyalty is built on betrayal and ambition. I want to ask you, in real life, what's more dangerous? Ambition with no loyalty or loyalty with no ambition? Wow. I'd go ambition with no loyalty. Yeah, same.

That's what I would go. That's dangerous. I'm still processing. That's deep. I'll be overthinking things like that you're gonna come up with something fantastic I'm here for it ambition with no loyalty to a lord to no ambition

I probably would have to concur like ambition I think ambition can be because too much ambition can always ruin a relationship because therefore now you just go on and for what you want you can become very selfish in that aspect and when you become selfish you end up hurting a lot of people around you especially when they try to be loyal to you

you know and then you're ambition now you're moving different as you say you're moving weird you know so trying to figure that out I think that's a good question and I like when the power show in all of its incarnations shows that yeah that that without loyalty without this with just blind ambition things fall apart you know this kind of lifestyle is people you can't be happy in a lot of ways I always say Tommy's like a vampire yeah he keeps living but like he's living alone and it could be a lonely life it's like it's not winning yeah every day

it's like you're looking over your shoulder you're trying to figure it out there was some scenes I always looked and I was admired you know how Joseph does because you're You talked about how can you walk away from it. But there's scenes where, you know, I'm just only my first season. They're doing them. I'm like, but you feel all the treachery behind you. You know, people that's trying to do all these things. Like, feeling like Janora trying to kill Diamond, I personalized that a little bit.

Like, so even on the set, like, I couldn't talk to him for a little while after that. Like, knowing how, you know, just knowing how he's moving. He's sitting around the corner, over the corner, smoking the square, hang, laughing, he being a Chris ass big. I'm in the barbershop looking like this. Like, I still wasn't over with it for a time because, and I always admired about the, you know, the character, Tommy, is because he dealt with that for so many seasons on power

and over and over again, and then it comes to this, I'm like, it takes some therapy. It takes some, you know, some aspect later on to be like, okay, let me let that go. It takes practice because it is deep. I'm still in therapy and you're talking to the right guys here who are advocates for it. It's a cane and able dynamic to y'all

relationship on the show. It definitely is. I think so. I definitely think it's that. That's a good analogy. Can y'all talk about from from ghosts to force the women that are involved

with different characters throughout the series so Shanti with you this season and then you're dating Maria Miguel's sister right there's all and then you go in and out of your situations yeah

look at the love in all their own place all you all be though that's what I was going to ask that common storyline is every chapter every season but y'all never learn people always end up dead what is the reason for that?

Like, why are we watching you guys never learn? I think because it mimics life. I think that all the time like, oh, you know, girls like the bad boy, but then I get hurt. And it's like,

then why are you dating a bad boy for? But because I like them. So, you know, a lot of that I think just is, again, responsible storytelling because that's what humans do a lot of times.

I think that that's not necessarily Tommy's intention, you know, speaking with Maria, but in a lot of ways, like he demands loyalty or death. And so I mean,

you think about, well, Akisha, and he's like, yo, you want to be with me, Keisha, got to be all in. And he's, like, pulls out the gun. She's like, I'm all in. He's like, gunga slips back under the couch. So with Mirea, just that she said, I'm choosing this lifestyle to be in, even though I've done everything in my life to not be part of this, although I know what the game is and I grew up around it, I'm going to put all that aside for you, and put everything

aside for you. I think in a lot of ways, the Tommy that we know is like, okay, I'm going to put everything away for you. And he means it. And that's one, that's one of the attractive quality. about the character is that this extreme loyalty that you're almost like but hold up you just know this you just met but some people are like that like when we move in with each people too early when we when we I'm all for you and like sometimes when you're all for somebody it actually you know pushes them away

with that same that magnetism because magnetism works both ways right it either goes like this or if you flip it behind it goes like this so it's it's going to be a little push and pull with Tommy and Morea and a lot of times with the women that y'all are dating there is no loyalty there right everybody wants something out of situation do you think that you're able to really be loyal on what you're doing day to day in your life if you can't be loyal in your relationship from what you guys are explaining if there's communication there and you say hey listen like tommy said listen i can't tell you this i'm not this where you everything is happening all right but you need plausible deniability i can't tell you everything because i care about you

so as long as there's communication i think that helps a lot of stuff but i want to hear what you want to say about shanti uh what i want to say about shanty uh He had you spinning. That's the thing. Like, I think there truly is love there because a lot of people always question, does Shanti and Janar really love each other? Or is she just using him or manipulating him? I think she truly does love Janar.

Because she was there for me when I was in a dark place. You know, Janar was going through shit. He was battling an addiction. He was everything like that. She was there for him. I couldn't tell my brother because I was trying to hide it. I was embarrassed. I didn't want nobody to know that this is how Janar was.

So Shanty came to Janard in a very dark place. So I think there is love there. but I do think that Ginnard sometimes makes her think that she's in control and that's why he ends up going out and doing whatever he wants to do anyway. But sometimes he's just telling what she wants to hear so she can shut up. And I don't think, and I think it mimics real life because some boyfriends, husbands, sometimes girls do that. Okay, babe, yeah, you're right.

Knowing damn well, I don't think that. But yeah, you're right just so you can keep the peace. Happy wife, happy life. But then you're going to end up doing your own thing. So I think that this season with Shanti and Janar, we're just going to see how that relationship truly unfolds and I think they love and loyalty and all of that will be tested for me this season with you guys one of the biggest things I looked at it as in the earlier episodes was she saw you as like almost like something that she could like build up and use

and dangle like you have a sort of power that you didn't know and she saw it and she was using you for that and once she used you it was going to be like whatever that's what you're taking from it in the earlier episodes I don't know about earlier episodes I can see that because it came across like that and I feel like why While I was doing it, subconsciously, because we never know what's going on with the scripts. Every episode we get the script, like, we never know who's about to die or nothing, right? You know, so I'm looking, I'm like, okay. But in my head, in my head, I always try to subconsciously play Janard and Shanty's relationship a little to the point where it's like,

Janard could possibly kill her if he wanted to or if he has to. Like, he loves her, but I don't know. What was that look? I always feel like Janar could kill anybody. That's what I tried to subconsciously implement that like. So there would be moments in the script where it'll say like, Janar leans in and kisses Shanti passionately. And instead of doing that, I just look at it and be like,

I fuck with you and do that. Instead of kissing her because I feel like that leaves room. If I have to kill her, it won't come as, you know what I'm saying? And in my head, I played it like that subconsciously. I'm not going to kiss her right here. I did one. I was like, you know, I'm fucking with the right girl. I said that instead of the passionate kiss that was supposed to happen.

I just tried to keep that open just in case because I didn't know where they were going. Why, you think it would have made you look more grimy if you kissed her and had a relationship and didn't kill this? No, I just wanted to leave fans in my head. And like I said, it might not have even been working. But in my head, I was like, there might be people watching this that are looking like, ooh, he might kill her.

Like, you know what I'm saying? Like, in my head, it might not even been the case. But I just kept that window open. Joseph, is there an end to the power universe? Like, have there been talks, like, to the end of Tommy's character? There's been talks. Ooh. But I feel like in terms of the end of the power universe,

I think that most talks are about expansion. All right, where can we go next? You know, we're the only power show that takes place outside in New York. So that was kind of a big thing for them at this point, too. But then with, you know, with 50s, other shows with Fightland coming out and in England, I feel like they're going to probably be thinking about a little bit of international expansion in some capacity through the power universe. And then I'm sure that they'll expand on stories in New York like they are doing already in the origins story.

But I bet there will be more spin-offs that take place around NYC. Do you have an idea of what you would want the ending for Tommy? I know exactly what I would want the ending for Tommy. In fact, me and Gary Lennon are already starting to make an outline for a movie for a feature. That would be kind of possibly the final, final chapter. I love that. You're not going to tell us. That would be hard.

No, he can't tell us Is 50 you know about this? I don't want this to be the first time I'm hearing about it. 50, every move I make that has anything to do with power, almost any move I make, anything he wants to know, he could know. But any move I make, if I always have, because it's responsible. Like, he's owed it because, yeah, because I'm a loyal, you know, friends or colleague or whatever.

But he's also owed it because he's owed it because he's an executive producer and a creator. So he's owed it twice, but I also, I always give the respect to Fifth because there's a good guy. Like, he's been a good person of me, a great person of me. He's taught me a lot. He sat down with me. He's been accessible. Like, I realize how much I owe 50, and I'm grateful. Well, definitely check out the final season of Force.

Make sure you check it out. The first episode was last Friday, and we appreciate you brothers for joining us. Thank you so much. Thank you. Thank you, sir. I appreciate you, sir. Isaac Keyes, Christy Lofton. It's the breakfast club.

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