The Breakfast Club - INTERVIEW: Kelly Rowland, Method Man & DeVon Franklin talks “Relationship Goals”, Personal love challenges, Hiphop + More

Episode Date: February 5, 2026

Today on The Breakfast Club, Kelly Rowland, Method Man & DeVon Franklin talks “Relationship Goals”, Personal love challenges, Hiphop. Listen For More!YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@BreakfastClubPower1051FMSee omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

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Apple Podcasts, or simply wherever you get your podcast. Morning everybody. It's DJ NV. Just hilarious. Shalermaine the guy. We are the Breakfast Club. Lauren LaRosa is here as well.

We got some special guests in the building. Yes, indeed. We got some family. We have Kelly Rowland, the brother Met the Man, and Devon Franklin. Welcome back. Morning.

Morning. Good. We're feeling. We're feeling great. We got a movie coming out. I know, right? Relationship goals. Relationship goals.

What made you want to turn relationship goals into a movie? It's a book by Pastor Michael Todd. What made you want to turn it into a film? You know what? One of my greatest inspirations as a producer is my brother Will Packer. Okay. And when I saw what he did with Steve Harvey's book, think like a man, I said, wait a minute. This Relationship Goals book has so many great principles.

Why don't we do that with this? And so that was the inspiration. And then also what was so cool is when Pastor Todd released the book, he put it out during the pandemic. And as an author, when you can't tour, that book usually doesn't work. He did everything virtually. It went to number one on the New York Times bestsellers list. And when you look at how people were responding and how many lives were being changed, I just thought it was the great foundation for romantic comedy.

Now, break down what the movie is about for people that haven't seen or haven't seen the trail as yet. Without giving it a weight up. Well, basically, you know, Kelly plays Leah, Matt plays Jared, and they have a history. But in the present moment of the story, they're competing for the same job. And Method comes up with the idea, they're in the news world. And Method comes up with the idea, his character, Jared, comes up with the idea, hey, why don't we do a story on the book Relationship Goals?

Or Valentine's Day. Exactly. Exactly. And then that begins everyone in the group, beginning to think about their aim and think about their love life and think about their relationships. So I'm not going to give it away. but that's kind of the catalyst for the movie. Absolutely.

How do y'all, this is random, but the song complicated. Like, the song is dope. But what made y'all want to go do a song so early? Was that part in the contract? Okay, we got Kelly and Mepster. They got to do a song for the movie. No, it just happened. Like, you know, I got the script, I read the script.

I was inspired, went into the studio, I've been working on music. So I literally just started writing from Leah's perspective, myself and Jesse Reyes. And then it came out. And then I sent it to Devon and Amber Raspberry over at Amazon. And I was like, I wonder if it'll work. And it just kind of worked. I sent it to Meth. And he was like, yeah, let me do my.

Let me just bark on this story. Have either you all been in that situation in real life where you gotta do business with somebody that you was in a relationship with? That would be awkward. I mean, it just kind of happened. That's all. It just kind of happened.

No. Me too. Me too. Nope, nope. Me either, no. Is there any aspects of the character's lives that relate to your real life? Absolutely. I mean, I think the way Leah has, when you meet her, she's holding on to everything.

She's so in control. You know what I mean? And I think that for her, like, when she has control of everything, she's feeling like, I got this. And she does. And she does. But she also is dealing with a whole bunch of internal stuff. Grief is a big one for her. You know what I mean?

And it's kind of, like, drifting into everything else in her life. and you see how it plays a big role in her decision making and everything. It's really interesting. So, yeah, that I definitely understood. Jess, what's the one thing I tell you about? As soon as I started watching, what's the first thing I told you?

What did I tell you? Oh, the dog suits in the wardrobe. Yeah. Anyway. You had it real nice. What did I say? No, but you did say it about it. I didn't say that guy.

What I said. He couldn't help, but he loved the wardrobe of Leah. And he was like, well, you show, I said the wardrobe was dope. The suits remind me of it was powerful, but it gave me like a little Janet Jackson with it too. The way to change, well, it was just dope.

I've never seen, you don't really see shows. Usually the wardrobe was cheap. But it seemed like they put a lot into it. I'll show just like, I'm like, a little wardrobe was dope. Was that your idea? Like, did you style yourself for the movie? Kelly dressed me. So because Devon is a producer,

and he so graciously allowed me to EP on this project as well, I was like, Devon, I have some ideas. Right. And I literally showed him a Pinterest board. You know what I mean? Of how I saw everybody and all the characters. And so, you know, he obliged and allowed us to just have a little bit of fun. Oh, man, she killed it.

I mean, we got our wardrobe, our costume designer was named Gersh Phillips. And so, but, you know, Kelly, you know, would just be sending pictures and then also use all her relationships in the fashion world. That wasn't cheap. Yeah, it was dope wardrobe. Yeah. But thankfully, we didn't have to pay for all of them. Huh?

Did you have to get back? Some stuff, of course you do. Yeah, we gave the Ameri stuff back. No, there it was great. What do the power suits mean for Kelly as an actress? Because I know, I mean, a coppa, it was all about the power suits and the silhouettes as well, too. And then I see you here again, and that was a personal decision. So, like, as an actor, like, what are you saying to the people that are watching you

by choosing to be specific about that? I mean, I think that women are powerful. And I think it should be unapologetic. And sometimes it does start with, like, how you feel on the outside, your wardrobe on the outside. Because when somebody sees you all put together, they're like, okay, I got to step up. You know, so for me, it was just, like, stepping up. whether it's for myself or expecting others to step up as well. So I feel like, you know, you got to put on to like, really.

Sometimes it's like when it's not here immediately, you need to have to put on. But I feel like that. Thank you. So I wanted my character to make sure she felt like that. Because once we start pulling back the layers of your character, I feel like she was trying to learn how to accept love in so many different ways throughout the movie. Correct. But you show up as like, you don't even talk to me.

Like you can't sit with you. Yes, it's a shield. It's a bit of a shield, you know? That list had a lot to do with it as well. The shield was just walls, just layers and layers of everything. But that's even deep. So we don't want to give away that too much there either. And when did you get comfortable with acting?

Because, you know, looking at you. I'm never comfortable with acting. Never? It looks so comfortable now. You don't look like a rapper. Now I see you as actor. Once you get comfortable, you get lazy. You know, so I like to explore outside my comfort zone. Yeah.

Yeah. So I don't think I'm ever going to be comfortable. comfortable with acting. Really? Yeah. Yeah. I don't think you should be. Yeah, I don't think you should be.

Did you get drawn the roles emotionally or creatively? Both. Okay. Both. What drew you to this one? This one was more emotionally. I see Jared as a man going through a transition. He's thinking more along the lines of legacy, you know,

leaving something behind, having something that really shows meaning to fulfill himself. And I think that when this job opportunity comes up, yes, I mean, that is a great way to start. But, oh, Leah works there as well. This is a sign. And it's something that he could either take advantage of in the moment or, you know, stay focused on what the prize is, which he thought was the job, but it was actually. Leah. That's what's dope about the movie.

It's like it talks about expectations versus reality and like these modern. relationships. Like, where do you think people get the most unrealistic expectations from? Social media. Y'all talk about it all the time. Don't try it. That's what that list reminds me. Absolutely.

And P.S., I think that social media and everybody actually believe in the hype, like, they've done a fine job of just adding fuel to the fire. So to me, I think that we have an obligation, especially now for this next generation that's looking at us, like thinking that it's just, oh, so great. And we have to peel back layers. I think that this movie does a really great job of peeling back layers and being honest in that way. I actually love the fact that Pastor Michael Todd named the book Relationship Code because that's the draw.

And that's where people are like, what the heck is a relationship goal? You know, what does that look like? It's actually something for you to define what it is because I'm not somebody else. I'm not a decision making somebody else. You know what I mean? I'm making decisions for me and somebody else. Me and this other person are making decisions and figuring out our relationship. I can't bite that.

That comes with a whole other set of trauma, a whole another set of issues, a whole other set of everything else. So I can't make that my relationship go. I don't know what the background is. I feel like everyone wants to live in their purpose. Sometimes they just don't know what it is. And when they watch movies like this or even social media,

they live vicariously through the people they connect with. And it's always going to be someone who wants to keep up with the Joneses, but there are very few Joneses that want to keep up with anybody. So when you find yourself in there, these spaces where you want to live that fantasy and have that happy ending and shit. And it turns out not to be that happy ending. You have to bear with that and then move on. And that's it.

Can you have a relationship in the workplace now, though? You know, because I look at these movies and I always say, if my son works somewhere, that's where he's going to meet somebody, right? Because you're at your job eight to nine hours a day. So that's where you're most likely to meet somebody. But in the society, they tell you that you can't work with somebody that you have. relationship with. Can that happen? I don't think you could meet. I mean, I don't know.

I can't. You out of here. Me and each of me, we all out. When you work in some way and you mess with somebody, it's cute at first. But then when things turn, I got to come to work and I got to see this and he going to break worm. I got, oh, my God. I don't know. Maybe I'll argue that morning and now you're at work. So to your own discretion, I feel like it can be done when two people know what they want, when they know how to clearly distinguish. business from, you know, work from our personal. You know, when we're at work, we are

coworkers. You got to treat, you got to be aligned. Boundaries. I think you make an excellent point. That's great. You just have to also, you know, use discretion because also in the movie, they're colleagues. Yeah. You know, it's not like one is higher than the other. And I think you just have to be very, very mindful of your position professionally when you're making a decision on, you know, who to date in the workplace and how to date that person. But really thinking with discretion and integrity is important. Because once that's gone, you know, everything is up for grabs at that point.

So how did the movie challenge or even affirm your own beliefs about love? I mean, I, when it comes to grief, like I understood my character holding it together

because remember, like, right after I had Titan, that's when my mom passed. So I didn't realize, like, I was like, trying to keep it together. So I remember when we shot the scene that day, I was like, I literally was like, like not letting it go before because I felt like I felt that so tough because we are like a lot of people are dealing with grief, but you don't know that it comes

in waves. That's why I love the way Regina Hall talks about. I'm sorry, Regina King talks about it. It's so honest and just really authentic. and when she said it, I completely understood it. It's actually in my notebook. My relationship goes journal a notebook, her quotes that she was talking about dealing with grief. But I just let it all go.

So I understood that with her as it equates to love. What about you, love? How did it affirm that didn't that? You know what I mean? Watch the movie, though. What about you, Bob? For me, what I love? the movie is, you know, all the main characters, you know, are reading the book and wrestling

with what it means for them. And one of the biggest tenets in the books is fixing your aim and knowing what you're shooting at. And so for me, what I love about the movie is like, I really sincerely believe love is the most powerful force in the universe. And I think that it's really easy in our culture to get cynical about it, especially when you go through things and difficulties and challenges in the area of love, dating, and relationships. But for me, it was about we got to keep this area of hope. This is an area where people, people hurt so much. So for me personally, making the movie was like,

this is good. It's therapeutic. It's positive to put this out there that we can't give up on love. I believe, especially as a man. I think it's important for us as men. And when you see his character, Jared's character in the myth's character in the film named Jared,

he's a man who believes in love. He has a past and he's reckoned with that past and he's making amends for that past. But one of the things that the book does is reminds him that love is the aim. And I just think that that's something that I wanted to put in the culture right now. With all that being said, how do you shut down, though, right?

Because you guys do so many projects. You were on tour. You do so many different things. You do so many different things. How do you shut down for that love at home? You know, because you still got to work. But then you still got a home life that you got to make sure the home is good. How do y'all...

Two separate worlds. I think home life is more grounded in reality for me. I can't speak for everybody. Home life is grounded more in reality for me. All this shit is TV. Period. You ever have to shut that TV down and make sure you spend, that quality time that we forget about when I'm outside I'm outside when I'm indoors

that's a totally different energy so I know how to separate the two you know but they are I'm not gonna lie I'd rather be inside than outside at this point in my life so you know but I do know how to separate the two not saying it always works something that has to suffer in the end that we can definitely speak to that you know some one's thing's going to be imbalanced and the other It's going to, you know, whatever. But you learn to deal with it. You learn to move forward and you learn to say this is what our life is. And we have to accept that.

I'm glad you said that because work life balance is a myth. I don't know why. Absolutely. It doesn't. It doesn't. No, it doesn't. And then you put all the other variables in which you are in it. And you're like, oh, today motherhood is my priority.

Then it's like, oh, well, I haven't spent any time with Tim. I need to go spend time. Okay, so Tim is the priority today. Oh, I need to get back to this project. Okay, so music is like everything like Trump's the other one. Everything, re-down. Yeah, don't say that one. Everything.

Everything is more of a priority than others on a certain days. I just think that like you said, it's no such thing as a balance. You're just figuring out which one is the priority that day. Whoa. Oh, no, no, no. No, I was just going to say, so I think it's also integration. Because even when you're busy and you're away, consideration, If you prioritize that, in consideration, it can just be a text.

Yes. Hey, babe, thinking about you. Babe, look at this. You know, it's just always keeping your relationship with priority mentally and emotionally, spiritually. And even when you're not there, that will then produce different forms of consideration. And that's how you do it. Because there is no. See, I've texted right now.

I'm not going to be. In real life, no, literally, before I left the house like the other morning to come here, I did, what do you call it, post-its. Like, post-it notes, like in the closet, like in Tim's closet and nose closet. Like, just to remind them, like, have a great day of school today. Ooh, baby, I can't wait to see you when you get back. Like, stuff, like, all that stuff is really important. Yeah.

It definitely sells a seat. Consideration. Go, go ahead. Go, go. Not the hair raised. And it would be for both of all three, y'all, but Devon, specifically, what do you believe is the healthiest balance of using faith and therapy? to seek love. Yeah, I think, I think.

Yo, go ahead. What's wrong with you? Why you mess? She's got real question. You guys a bully over there. Go ahead. Leonard. Lenard. You always don't know. You hate to us. Listen, listen. Lenard. They both work together, but they're both separate, right?

Right. I believe that anybody who has found love or wants love has to have faith. Because it is a miracle on a planet with billions of people. that two people can find each other and make the decision to do life together. That is like a miracle. So you've got to have a level of faith even if you don't realize it because if you're on an app or you're going out,

you're having a faith that one day I'm going to find a person that's going to be my partner. So that's faith to me. When it comes to therapy, therapy is about the trauma, right? And most of us have had a lot of trauma in this area of love, dating, and relationship. So I do believe that in order to be a great partner and just a great person,

Therapy is important. You know, I got into therapy, what, six, seven years ago. And what it does. Six, seven, I'm sorry. My kids are watching. They love that six years. Oh, they love that. Right.

There you go. For the coach. You don't. But for me, but what you don't realize is you think like, oh, I'm good. Yeah. But you don't realize when you get into therapy, you realize, oh, wow, there's some wounds. And then what you don't realize when you don't do therapy, then you bleed on your partner. And then you want them to be your therapist.

And for me personally, I had to work on what my wounds were, getting that type of healing. So then I can be a better individual and a better partner. So I think they work together, but they definitely are individual pursuit. How do you know you need therapy? Because a lot of people, like you said, you don't even know that you need it until I guess you're in a situation. Yeah. How do you know? If you're breathing, you need it.

Period. Because everybody's been through some trauma, some challenges, some difficulties. And you can't figure that stuff out on your own. Here you are trying to unravel a ball that's steady weaving itself. You know what I mean? Like the particular space in which you've had the trauma. And then it's something else that is an extension of it and it weaves itself. You know what I mean?

And it's the trigger. You know what I mean? So you're trying to figure out how to battle the trigger on top of a trigger, on top of the trigger on top of the trigger on top of the base of the trauma. So it's like you're constantly trying to figure it out. That is exhausting. Like we're supposed to be living life abundant, you know, and enjoy joy and like actually excited about trying to figure that stuff out for ourselves first. Because like he said, you're going to bleed over the other person.

That is even more painful because you love yourself, but you've decided to love this person the way you love God. And I'm not trying to bleed all over you like that. Amen. What about when the person's dealing with all types of trauma and they're telling you that, you know, you got to love me the way God love me, but God love is unconditional. How, how, when do you know when the back of weight? I mean, I ain't going through that. So, I pray I never would go through that. Great answer.

But I don't, I don't know. I don't, divine. Because I'm going to call my brother, like. Listen, listen, God's love is for sure unconditional. And we as human beings aspire to that. but everybody has a breaking point. And only you know when you've hit that breaking point.

And sometimes the greatest act of love is to make the decision, you know, hey, I love you so much that I can acknowledge that we've done as much as we can do. So that's not a lack of love. Sometimes it takes even more love to do that. But each person will know when and if you ever get to that breaking point. Yeah, that's what he do. Canadian women are looking for more. More to themselves, their business. their elected leaders and the world around them.

And that's why we're thrilled to introduce the Honest Talk podcast. I'm Jennifer Stewart. And I'm Catherine Clark. And in this podcast, we interview Canada's most inspiring women. Entrepreneurs, artists, athletes, politicians, and newsmakers, all at different stages of their journey. So if you're looking to connect, then we hope you'll join us. Listen to the Honest Talk podcast and IHeart Radio or wherever you listen to your podcasts.

Seems like just yesterday that the two guys' Five Rings podcast, was in Paris for the Olympics. And now we're heading to Milan for the 26 Milan Cortina Olympic Winter Games. I'm Bowen-Yang. And I'm Matt Rogers, and we'll join athletes from 93 countries as Two Guys Five Rings hits the Italian Alps

for the 26 Milan-Cortina Olympic Winter Games. Open your free IHart Radio app. Did we mention it's free? Search Two Guys Five Rings. And listen now. Welcome to the A building. I'm Hans Charles. Our menelick Lamouba.

It's 1969. Malcolm X and Martin Luther King Jr. had both been assassinated. And Black America was out of breaking point. Writing and protests broke out on an unprecedented scale. In Atlanta, Georgia at Martin's Almemata, Morehouse College, the students had their own protest. It featured two prominent figures in black history,

Martin Luther King's senior and a young student, Samuel L. Jackson. to be in what we really thought was a revolution. I mean, people would die. 1968, the murder of Dr. King, which traumatized everyone. The FBI had a role in the murder of a Black Panther leader in Chicago. This story is about protest. It echoes in today's world far more than it should, and it will blow your mind. Listen to the A-building on the I-Heart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get,

at your podcast. In the middle of the night, Saskia awoke in a haze. Her husband, Mike, was on his laptop. What was on his screen would change Saskia's life forever. I said, I need you to tell me exactly what you're doing.

And immediately, the mask came off. You're supposed to be safe. That's your home. That's your husband. To keep this secret for so many years, he's like a seasoned pro. This is a story about the end of a marriage, but it's also the story of one woman who was done living in the dark. You're a dangerous person who prays on vulnerable and trusting people.

Your creditor, Michael Leavengood. Listen to Betrayal Season 5 on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. film. Did you know meth and Kelly Rowland was the perfect match for this? No, you know, I didn't. What was, what was cool was I've been developing this script for years. You know, really, whenever I'm making a movie, you know, a movie is only as good as a script. So this script just took a little longer to get right because, you know, Pastor Todd's book is a book of advice. It's not a narrative. So we literally had to create the story from scratch. Right. And so by the time I got the script right, and then I had hired Linda Mendoza to direct the movie.

and she's a really, you know, amazing, prominent comedy director. And so I was like, okay, who can do this? And I talked to Amazon, I was like, Kelly Rowland. So Kelly and I had had lunch right before Mia Culpa came out. And so I got a sense of what it is she wanted to do. And so I sent it to her. And over the weekend. And in 24 hours, she read it and she's like, I'm in.

I'm like, bet. So I let Amazon know, yo, we got Kelly. They're like, dope, let's do it. So we started the process of making the movie. And we started, you know, seeing a lot of guys to play Jared. We looked at probably 100 different dudes. Yeah, Idris didn't cut it. It's happening.

She was wet. And then Amber Raspberry, our executive at Amazon, said, hey, what about Met the Man? And I was like, yo, we met like 10 years ago, I've been talking about trying to do something. So we sent him to script. He loved it. He came in on a chemistry read with Kelly.

And within two minutes, we were like, all right, back. There it is. And so it just organically, you know, came out this way. And to me, it's like the thing about them, and I'll say this with them here, is like you may see, like, you know, talent that came from the music industry. I want to be very clear. These are two of Hollywood's greatest actors. When you talk about their preparation, I mean, like, he matters so much about his lines.

There was one C, we were in the car, and he just kept loving one line. And he would not stop until he got it perfect. These are two consummate professionals, the way they prepared, the way they got into character, the way they were. ambassadors on set you're not just seeing two music icons coming together you're really seeing two of Hollywood's I think leading man and leading woman coming together is that come from from rap meth like wanting to get the the bar right you want to hit a rhythm you know what I mean yeah and I just wasn't feeling it so I wanted to get it absolutely right yeah and I mean if you guys have seen the

movie I lead lady is fantastic yes she is and she carries this film she's big time some of my favorite scenes are I told her this myself so my favorite scenes are with you and the girls. Just that whole camaraderie feels genuine. It doesn't feel thrown together. It feels real. So kudos. You know, you know, just tried out for a partner in the movie.

No, relax. I said, don't bring that up. I'm sorry, my bad. You did? Her audition. No, but the audition was great. It was great. Oh, you said it?

Of course, I've seen it. Yes. I make sure it happen. You know God is watching. Why would you lie like that? I would not lie. No, you would not. I would not.

I can tell you from personal experience, Jess, when you don't get the part, sometimes it's just you don't fit the suit. That's it. That's it. There's nothing to do. No, she didn't. Divine.

In this movie, right, you use Bethamian's character to really have a conversation about, like, how we look at men or don't allow them to grow in vulnerability when it comes to love, right? Yeah. What was probably the most important conversation you wanted people to walk women to walk away with from seeing his character?

You know, this is probably this is probably, you know, a hard one, but you ask the question, that men can change. Men can change. The room was silent. I know, I know.

You could have heard of Ben Dros just now. But like when you look at the movie and everybody watches the movie, it comes out on Amazon Prime, February 4th. Tomorrow. And so when you see this film, you'll see that, Jared and Leah have a past.

He's made some mistakes, but he is serious about atoning for those mistakes. And he gets the book Relationship Goals and it has principles in it that really help him recognize how much of a, you know, of less than a man and a dog he was and that he's reformed. And so I think when you watch this movie, Leah has a choice. Do I believe him? Can I trust it? And part of that is seeing his behavior and evaluating that. And the other part of it is having faith. And seeing so, that is one of, when we talk about the male character, one of the greatest things that take away is like, a man can change.

Now, now, you know, I know in our culture, everybody wants to say, well, no, no, man, once a man's, no, a man can change. And a man can have, be remorseful. And this movie, I wanted to show that, you know, as men, as black men, we can go through things, we can make mistakes, we can write our wrongs. And he's, he's the one that brings the book into the movie. So he's a reader. He's trying to better himself. So I really wanted to have a character that can embody all of that.

And hopefully people, you know, walk away from the film saying, all right, you know what? Let me not just close myself off to love. And let me not just say this person is how they're always going to be. Let me give us some time to see. Why do you think vulnerability is still so hard for men to fully embrace?

So deeply rooted. I'm not a man. Go ahead, man. Sorry. I like that because you got to give something away. It feels like you have to give something away. You have to sacrifice part of yourself and shit to be vulnerable. And especially when you're out, let's just put it this way,

but when we leave out of our homes and we go into our workforce, we're dealing, we're battling all day long. Battling for position, whatever it is, whatever it is your kick is. And then we want to get home the same way a police officer does after his ship. When he goes to work, there's the stress of the day, I may be killed today. You know, same thing with a man. I may be fired this day. or my company may go under this day.

But when he comes home, he wants to have peace, comfort, and everything that comes with that. This is where he can be vulnerable because his woman who he's involved with or whatever your significant other is.

They're there to comfort that person and tell him, you did all of that just so you can be here and do this now. Relax. I got you. That kind of thing. So this, is where you want to be vulnerable at

because you have no other place to be vulnerable. Yeah, I mean, and still, it's like what you're sacrificing in that moment is maybe this woman is going to look at me like, you know, I'm a little soft or whatever.

But no, any woman that could look at that vulnerability and think softness is not for you. If anything, she's looking at you, I hate to equate it to this, but I've seen a report, I've seen this, investigation about dogs and a dog using the bathroom around its owner. Dogs don't use the bathroom.

Like, they're very skeptical about where they go because they're vulnerable in that moment. So they have to honestly trust you in order to take a poop in front of you. So when you get to a point in your relationship where you can poop with the door open and your significant others right there brushing their teeth, vulnerability right there.

Y'all wrapped that up in a nice little. Going back to what you said, Devon, we were talking about men can change, and they can, you know what I'm saying? Like, Jared's character, he was a dog, you know what I mean? He did some, wasn't a dog. Play a player. Play a player.

He was a little puppy, I'm saying? He had hurt her, you know what I mean? But on the other side of it, a woman can, she's hurt from that, she can carry that, and it become bitter and not even realize that she's bitter, you know what? I'm saying. So how do you even notice that you're bitter and that you actually could be so bitter

from what happened to you back then that you blocking yourself from love from what you want. Like you've got the list and everything. You know what you want. But you're blocking your blessing because you are bitter from what happened to you way back. Yeah. You know, I think in the movie, you know, the bitterness on some level shows up in the form of Leah's list. The list seems like a great thing, right? She has all these attributes of what she wants in her.

partner. But what it does is it mass insecurity. And the idea, if I can just get this list, then I won't get hurt. And this is probably the hardest thing when it comes to love. To your point about vulnerability, when you love and you open up your heart, you open up your heart to help, but you open up your heart to hurt as well. And the admission price for love is faith. You have to be open. Because if you're not open, you're never going to receive it. And you can't. give it so to your point like how do you know if you're bitter how do you what's your emotional disposition when you wake up in the morning are you in peace are you enjoy are you optimistic you know and for me those are you can know the choices those are choices

and and for me I'm like you know when you especially when you watch the movie I'm like man I don't we all go through heartbreak we all go through difficult things but you can get to love when you practice that love when you make the choice to be that love that joy that happiness and so over the course of the movie you see Leah you know grappling with that and over the course of the film she starts to realize like wait a minute I got to open up my heart right I'm too closed off to it and I think that um that's probably one the hardest things to do right but on the other side of it when you get love you know it's it's it's it's it's it's it's it's it's none of this matters and in my opinion this is all fine but when you have love when you have the right person and

you can share your your your heart and your home and your health with yeah that's what life is about. And so, you know, I would advise anybody, watch this film and really allow yourself to identify. What are the areas in your heart that you're hurting? And here's other last thing. I was I was saying, it's okay to hurt. Like we've been in the movie. Leah hurts. And so often, we don't want to hurt. We just want to fast forward through the hurt. No, sit in it. Feel it. Because when you feel, that's when you can heal. Yes. And that's what you see in this movie. And then on the other side of that feeling and that healing is love waiting. And that to me is, is, is, one of the greatest things about this film is it is it is entirely optimistic

this is not a pessimistic film it's a it's a film that will anybody no matter what status of relationship you're in you can watch it and take something from it that I believe will help you in your love life let me have kept okay Kelly I had a question so piggybacking up both of those conversations right you I watched that you and met them and interview each other for ET and you were talking about I think he actually like what was your favorite thing that like your husband does for you or something like that and you said just the way he loves on me and my son but you also said you're still learning how to

to receive that love. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Therapy. It all goes back to therapy. I'm still learning how to receive that. And by the way, I think that people like, well, once you get married, you figure it out like hell you do. You're still trying to figure it out in marriage.

You know what I mean? It's like why I think that, you know, fixing your aim, you know, before you get married is also a really great goal because then you get to work some things out. You know what I mean? Like I knew the Tim was my husband. I didn't know that I was going to run into so many different things that were triggers for me. You know what I mean?

Like how to love him. Oh my gosh. But like how to love him the way he deserves to be loved. Like I want to love him the way he deserves to be loved because he loves me that way. And he's figuring out, thank you. He's figuring out things in his way and how to love me as well. And we're constantly evolving. So we're not going to get it right every time.

We've been together since I was 26. I'm 45 now. So it's like, we look good. Damn. Thank you. Thank you. But it's like us figuring out how to do that the right way for each other. And that's why I'm in therapy.

Kelly, you don't speak enough about how women miss day blessings looking for height. They can get a short king and live happily ever after. Because you're saying my husband is almost like we're almost the same high. You and Tim, that wasn't me that said that. What the same? Your feet don't even touch the ground right now. He is tall in a lot. Shut up.

The point is. Well, here's the thing. I understand. Stop it. You can find a great king because he's a great king. But it was, for me, I did have that list. I had a crazy list. I actually found that list before.

Yes, I did. Did I have a list? Did you write your list? Oh, you know, 20. 20. I knew exactly. I thought I knew what I wanted, but Tim gave me what I needed. And I think that that was the difference.

I was saying that the other day, like I didn't know. I was so busy writing down what I wanted. I didn't know what I needed. And I think that experience makes you realize what you need. I think that, you know, as you're dating, you know, and figuring everything out, you can write everything down. Like, I'll never forget this one time. I was crying after a breakup. And just in my head in my hands, and B walks in and she goes, why are you crying?

And I said, because she's like, but tell me why are you crying? And I said, I don't know, she was like, what you need to be doing is take an inventory of what you did like about this situation. So you'll be ready for the next one. And I was like, Mars. Like it was so good. And literally, I stopped crying in that moment because I realized like that what I was crying, I didn't even know why I was crying. It was the hype that I just lost a boyfriend. You know what I mean?

And we get lost in that kind of sauce sometimes. Like you have to actually start to take inventory and strategize on what it is that you. need. So what's the difference between compromise and self-b portrayal in relationships then when you have a little? How do you know when you're compromising you're just betraying yourself? I mean I didn't feel like I was compromising anything. I think that's a self thing like I I wanted to I I just wanted to be honest with myself you know what I mean and I was just going from that I wasn't thinking about compromising anything as much as it was I just I

like the way he speaks to me. I love the way he makes me feel when I'm around him. I love the fact that he took up from me and nobody's taken up from him. Like literally, I say, and I'll say it to this day, Tim is the greatest man I've ever known. It's like, like, because you

got to remember I got my daddy issues. You know what I mean? And until I met my dad a couple years back, like I didn't know what how messy that was. And what kind of guy I was supposed to choose. I wasn't supposed to choose a Tim. You know what I mean?

He was supposed to walk past me, but I thought more of myself to choose a good man. I saw you talk about your relationship with your dad and kind of, you know, how you being a mom has like, you know, how that balance has been. But what has your relationship with Tim been like since you, like, having that stronger relationship with your dad? Oh, it's been great. It's been great. By the way, Tim was very protective, just transparently speaking of me. meeting my dad. You know what I mean? And I had to talk. Yeah, yeah. He was protective of me meeting my dad because he's just like, I don't know what this is going to open up for her. You know what I

mean? It was him thinking about it like that, but they get along beautifully, you know. And you wanted that. You wanted that. I did. I did. And I needed to see like where my roots are from. Do you know when I met my dad, I realized where I got singing from, which was his mother. His mother was a background singer for Lena Horan and Count Basie. I didn't know any of that, so I got these beautiful gems and didn't know what the other side of me was. And then I look at Noah's face. Noah looked just like his mama, my dad's mom. And it's just amazing to me because what if I would have closed that off?

That's why forgiveness is a real thing. And I remember speaking to my big brother about going to talk to my dad, and he was like, look, it's love. You either jump or you don't. Period. See that growth, yo? Yes. I'm playing with my sister. You're talking about growth, man.

You know, hip hop has changed how it talks about relationships over the years. Like, where do you think we've grown? Where do you think we still stuck? As far as hip hop? Yeah. Oh, it's a lot of work to still be done, man. I mean, it starts with a lot of these gatekeepers

trying to dictate what this new generation should be doing. You know, because honestly, when we was doing it, we had fun. He was having a lot of fun. And what I can give this new generation credit for is that they did a lot more business than show, and the show business part of it, you know. We're creating generational wealth, and they're the babies of that. And, I mean, we could be in a way better place, especially with the message, of course. And when I was doing it back in the day, I mean, Wu-Tang had a message,

regardless of whether you heard gunshots or swords. there was still a message there. And I think a lot of times the vibe gets lost for the substance. The substance, there's no substance in the vibe. The vibe has no substance and shit. And again, I can't knock these kids for liking

what they like. But I just wish it was a bit more diversity for lack of a better word. But did the business hurt it? Because you talk about the fun you did. You did things for fun. And in business later, which was bad for pockets, but it was natural. I was thinking about there. There was a level of emotional

maturity that might had existed back then that may not exist now because like even all I need that was that was our relationship goal right everything into every line is what you want yeah well I think that my generation read a lot more books you know we went outside we touched dirt you know so experience is king and to be honest you know and again this this generation I'm not knocking anything they do because they do in their numbers and it looks like they having fun I can live vicariously through somebody's young. But again, substance. And you only think about these things

when you get my age. You want something that matters, something that you can feel, hold, embracing, you know, really cherish. Yeah. Now, I got to ask questions, they got to leave it shortly too, guys. When you were performing at the Barclays or Prudential, which one was it? It was at the ballclays.

Did you see? Did you see? Thank you. I did. That's why I said, hey. Hey. They didn't. No, I saw her face. No, that's a different, Jesse. Don't play with me.

No, but I saw her face and I lit up because it was so nice to see her face. She said that, but we thought she was lying. See, they always take a line. No, because Jess is always really kind and really cool and I really appreciate it. So when I see her, it's warmth always. She doesn't matter of her husband, though. Why? Oh, my God.

He was so excited to see you. Listen, my husband went crazy when you came out there. I said, it's Kelly Rowland. Yeah, exactly. But he turned to me and said it. Like, you know that's Kelly Rowland? I'm like, yeah, I know. I know, I'm talking about talking about you all night.

And I love it. I started talking about it with him. I ain't, it's hard. It's like, damn, she look good. Congratulations on that. Oh, thank you. You killed it. I just loved it.

You look so good. Thank you. All that. It was nice. I love it. What do y'all hope people take from this film? That they might not hear from their friends. Oh, I think they go hear from their friends.

I think what's interesting is when the movie goes off. so quiet. You know what I mean? Like in this way. And then it's like a chatter. You know what I mean? And it's like well I, you know what I? It starts conversation. I hope it provokes

conversation left and right. Oh, it definitely will. So that it like really encourages people to see the movie, see the message, see these characters. And not just know it's like not just about the Jared and Leah relationship. It's the girlfriends too. The girlfriends enrich the story. Yeah. And and our like how beautiful.

it was that as relationship goes for even the friends as well that I want to give away too much but but it's like the the relationship with the girlfriends and and everybody that's involved you see how relationship goals as a whole not just romantically are just really important and um yeah that's that's what it is for me i just want people to root for these people in this film yeah yeah root for their relationships Yeah, and for me, I mean, I think it's one of the few movies that can actually change your life. Because when you look at the YouTube series and the relationship goes YouTube series, then the relationship goes book, change millions of people's lives for the better. And the same principles in the book and the YouTube series are in the movie.

So I think I want people to have a great experience. It's funny. It's a great entertaining film with two of the greatest actors on the planet. And it can actually make you fix your aim in life and in love. And I think that it's a rare thing where you can watch a movie that entertains you. but it also makes you think like, oh, shoot, there's some things I can actually change and I can apply what I saw in the film

to my personal life. And then you're not getting enough credit, man, because you know, you wanted a few black men that's not only, you know, getting things made, getting things greenlit, you know, casting a lot of black people. Like, I don't think you get enough credit for that with Franklin Entertainment. That's right.

Like you're every six months, both of them. I disagree, I disagree. He's very active. We see Devon a lot, especially in the past three years. I've seen a lot. Thank you. Thank you, I appreciate it. Well, let's out today.

Make sure you go get it. Woo! Go check it out on prime video. Relationship goals. We appreciate you for joining us. Devon, Franklin, met the man. Kelly Rowland. What's up?

Thank you. Thank you. Appreciate y'all. Hold up. Every day I wake up. Wake your ass up. The breakfast club. You're all finished or y'all done?

It seems like just yesterday that the two guys' guys' Five Rings podcast was in Paris for the Olympics. And now we're heading to Milan for the 2026 Milan-Cortina Olympic Winter Games. I'm Bowen Yang. And I'm Matt Rogers. and will join athletes from 93 countries as Two Guys Five Rings hits the Italian Alps for the 26 Milan-Kritina Olympic Winter Games. Open your free IHart Radio app. Did we mention it's free? Search Two Guys Five Rings and listen now.

In the middle of the night, Saskia awoke in a haze. Her husband, Mike, was on his laptop. What was on his screen would change Saskia's life forever. I said, I need you to tell me exactly. what you're doing. And immediately, the mask came off. You're supposed to be safe.

That's your home. That's your husband. Listen to Betrayal Season 5 on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Black history lives in our stories, our culture, and the conversations we still having today. This Black History Month, the podcast, I didn't know. Maybe you didn't either digs into the moments. perspectives and experiences that don't always make the textbook.

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