The Breakfast Club - INTERVIEW: Laura Coates Talks American Legal System, Diddy Trial, Tory Lanez, 'Jeopardy!' Hosting Snub +More

Episode Date: August 20, 2025

Today on The Breakfast Club, Laura Coates Talks American Legal System, Diddy Trial, Tory Lanez, 'Jeopardy!' Hosting Snub. Listen For More!YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@BreakfastClubPower1051FMSee omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

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It's TVJ, NV, Jess O'Lari, and Sherman and the Guy. We are the Breakfast Club, Long of the Roses here as well. And we got a special guest in the building. Yes, indeed. We have Laura Coates. Welcome. Thank you. Happy to be here, y'all.

Welcome, welcome. What time do you wake up, Laura? Because the show go off at midnight, right? I go to bed probably by 2 a.m., up by 6. Wow. Nice. I have babies. I call them baby, because that's why I have baby weight.

So it's 11 and 12 year olds. Okay. Therefore, I'm up with them, getting them ready, or trying to, or, you know, piddling like an old person, trying to figure out how to start my day. But I can't sleep long any longer. I can't. It just ended.

Is it because your brain is always wired to be a part of, like, part of like the news cycle I'm constantly thinking like last night I think I got an hour and a half asleep because my mind could not you could you can't really come down because you for me I'm always navigating minefields you all know how it is and so when you're constantly sort of being your own champion being a businesswoman navigating minefields then I be trying to educate and inform your mind can't shut off very well and so I'm always battling with how to do my go-to-bed routine I mean, I'll do, like, the bath, I'll watch some golden girls,

but it still takes some time. You take naps at least? I do. No, I can, like, knaps is what keeps he alive. Oh, my God. If I, if you're talking right now, you have an hour,

I'd be knocked out right now. Like, I can do that quick. I'm like that, so I can fall asleep immediately like. Yes. Airplanes, I have not seen one of those safety things in the plane in, like, years.

Damn, you're asleep before they even do that much. I haven't had a pretzel. No spray. With you without ice, doesn't matter. I just, I can't have it. I can't help it. I do it.

How you turn it off and on with your kids, though? Because, like, sometimes they just want mom. That's just about to chill, go to beach, whatever. My kids don't care at all about the work. For me, I'm very intentional because, look, I want to be a mom. I really wanted to be a mother. And I wanted to be their mother in particular. And so I have to be present.

And really, if you don't sort of leave work, when I'm not working, my mind might be racing, but if I'm with my babies or with my man, that's it like I'm with them that's all there is to it and so they try to come with me a lot though that's how I try to incorporate my daughter comes every Friday night to the show and because my producer she's 11 she's taller than me now my son he plays basketball and so he's always I'm always trying to be with him when he's on the your daughter's 11 and a 12 than you on 5 3 and a half okay I was asking he's 5 14 oh wow my my nickname as a kid was baby Huey I'm I'm the top

It ain't even that baby girl. Baby girl. So I had to have a strong ego to counteract that because my mom is 4-11. My dad's 5'4 and they're like, how do you get so big? And I'm like, I'm 5.3 and a half. But that half means something. The half. Hold, you used to be a federal prosecutor, right?

I did. I want to go back from the beginning. You went to college for law clearly. Yeah. Okay. What school? I went to Princeton for undergrad. I'm from Minnesota.

I went back to Minnesota for law. school I didn't think I was going to do be a prosecutor honestly I thought that I was going to go into the law and I thought you know at the time you think oh corporate law and that's some kind nebulous term or whatever that means but really I knew I was going to become in criminal law and probably a prosecutor when the whole kemba smith story came out back in the 90s emerged magazine remember that and she was a young black woman from virginia who had met the wrong man had gotten accused and was being a drug mule right right and my mom brought home the magazine there's three of us she's like girls i want you to

read this as a cautionary tale and i think what she wanted as a mom was for me to see like the idea of what type of man to get involved with him explain the story of what happened to came in the time she got so people understand the whole thing i was there so i know were you wow so yeah he's 40s damn look wow i'm 45 you know she do not like telling how old she is who camber Don't miss Gend to me, man. I'm sorry, I'm sorry. I'm sorry. I mean, you know.

They'd be picking on me, so I'd be picking on the bank. I taught the Amazon thing, so I was here. I was here for it. Thank you. I saw it, so I understand. Well, Kemba, so she was a college girl. The world was her oyster. Long story short, she meets a man

who is manipulative and convinces her to get involved in crime. She doesn't think she's getting involved in crime. I think she's just kind of caring something for someone and doing what she thinks she's supposed to be doing. but it wasn't and while he got sort of a slap on the wrist she got the book thrown at her she became the example of you know what goes wrong in this sort of crazy mischievous black

woman coming into this town and she deserves everything she gets what color was the man i need to know black no black virginia is a commonwealth state they kind of make up their rules laws and regulations when you say slap on the wrist for him how much time did he get i don't think he got much time at all i think he got like i mean she was in there for years And the sad thing was, of course, you know, as black women, as black people, as young women, as young people, we can't make a mistake. You know, you don't get the idea of, I understand, I see myself in you. Therefore, let me try to get you on the straight and narrow yet again and give you a chance again at life. So my mom sent the article to us and showed us.

Her, I think, role for us was, listen, this is the tale of what not to do in terms of the type people you associate yourself with. but my take on it was this was a prosecutorial error this was somebody who refused to see themselves in another human being and therefore this young woman was going to serve life or not life but serve her life at that time with that burden on her back

and so when I realized in law school what I wanted to do I had her in mind I've met her since and talked to her about this and we've shared some tears about the what it's like to really be a prosecutor because you really you have this responsibility it's overwhelming you're human you're flawed there's no resources that are going to be able to

provide for all that you have to do and yet you have someone's life in your hand their entire life not just their life but people in the courtroom were their kids who were there their loved ones their parents who were there and it was a time it was it was it wore on me even though I thought what I was doing and I still believe was the right thing she got 24 years she was let out She was let out. She only did six, but she got 24 years. So as a former federal prosecutor, how do you balance explaining the law for everyday viewers

without losing the complexity of what law is? I think you don't understand something unless you can explain it to a child, right? I mean, there's a phrase, and when I was in trials and I did a lot of trials, it was never use a $20 word when a quarter word will do, right? You want to talk to people and meet them where they are, not because they know less intellectually,

or they're not as smart, but because you and I would never sit here and say the door was a jar. Did the door open? Like, I gave chase. Do you mean you ran somewhere? Because you want people to understand what's happening. And I think there's an elitism with vocabulary where people want to show that they're smart to distance themselves from you to make sure you see them above you and that they can no longer participate in the system.

And the longer people feel like, well, I don't get it. So therefore I have hands off. Their reflex is, well, I don't care about that. It's rigged. It's a whole game and system. That was the point. They want people to not participate. They want people not to understand.

And we have an elitism about the law that we see right now in real terms are hurting the nation. Because the more people are like, politics. I don't get that. What's posse coma? What? I don't get it. Never mind, whatever. Then you don't check in.

and you're not actually maintaining the system, and you become a part of your own demise. And so for me, it was easy to make sure that, look, if I want to understand something, I have to really distill it down so that I can explain it in a two-minute elevator, in a 30-second clip down the street, wherever I am, to my kids,

because they're also who's watching me. And when I was during the whole COVID, during the pandemic, I had a studio on my home. and I remember I was covering the George Floyd murder trial which I'm clear not the George Floyd trial that's Derek Chauvin trial the George Floyd murder trial and my kids were on the floor literally because it was homeschool don't give me started they're sitting there watching me explain something

and the why the why was always the hardest question I could explain the Constitution I can recite amendments I can explain the different case law but the hardest question to answer especially when you have your baby's looking at you, why? You know who taught me that, Larry King? Really? Larry King said, God bless the day, Larry King said, he said, Charlemagne, the toughest question you can ask a person is why.

Why? Because people really don't ever think about the why. Usually they have their talking points or they have their things that they've been taught, but they've never actually thought about the why of something. And it makes you think ahead in the future and explain the past simultaneously. because the why requires you explain the way it was how you've let it be and also how you could change it because in that one three letter word

you're being challenged it's almost like the one question is why did you let that happen or why is it still that way or why haven't we changed it and you have to think about all those things and you know I one thing that I love my job what I'm doing is because for me I would have talked anyway right I would have tried to explain anyway. I have a real desire to democratize information because I can't stand elitism and I can't stand people feeling like they don't have a voice because someone took it away. But that why question, man, when it comes to my kids, like my son the other day asked me

a question about why the National Guard was there. People were driving by. Why? And why there? I thought, this is going to take a lot to unload. But, you know, I try not to shy away from my kids when they ask a question because when they're asking it, they're ready to receive the information even though sometimes you know it breaks my heart I think of my kids childhood whether this is right or wrong you guys I think of it like a museum right and there are museum floors and wings and I'm navigating one area I'm okay it's time to go to this wing and all of a sudden something happens and I'm on the third floor trying to explain the exhibit in front of me

trying to make sure they realize what to do or what not to do and I'm not always prepared in those moments and so I just try to be very confessional about what I do and do not know and try to find answers so what is the why to why the National Guard is there because I'm sure there's a letter of a law letter of a law letter of the law answer yeah but what's the why well the why they're saying they're there is because of the crime rate in DC and the only way they believe they can change it is to have the presence of the National Guard to try to deter crime or to supplement what the cops are doing what the other reason is legally is a that they have the ability to do so in Washington, D.C.

It's not a, it's not a state, it's not a territory, and the president of the United States has a lot, a lot, a lot of power there. So much so that other governors, and other hitch are thinking themselves, well, how can we stop it from having our own states? But the reality is he has power to do so for a certain amount of time, 30 days.

If there is an emergency situation, they can do it. He wants to delay it or prolong it longer than that. But the reason they're probably having it in reality is because, Politically, it is advantageous to show that you are tough on crime. And Democrats have a very difficult road ahead trying to, on the one hand, explain the problems of a police state and the presence of the National Guard, a la civil rights era with people coming into your towns,

and also using data to say, no, no, I don't know how you feel, but here's a number. Does this number make you feel better? Here's a number, right? This is better. And they're trying to capitalize on that as Republican. I was going to ask, you know, do you think the judicial system could be fair with everything going on in the world, with social media or television is where it is? Because, you know, you look at some of these cases, and a lot of times people get wrong information, misinformation, and it's difficult to take that out of your mind if you're a juror because you already see most of the things that's happened.

Yeah. So could it possibly be fair anymore? The bait of my existence and trial was law and order. That damn, dun, dun, sound, everything else, right? Why? Because people have an expectation about the ability to meet your burden of proof, number one, right? Every crime you think has a video, a DNA sample. You can have everything solved in 46 minutes with commercial breaks and Sam Waters and is ready to go.

That hurts the ability of a real and a reality-based case. You don't have all that information all the time. So that's hard to deal with to meet your burden to prove. On the other hand, it helps to make it a little bit more fair. if we have access to technology and you shouldn't use it, or that you have the cameras and you didn't find it, or you had and knew about a form that many people who are armchair lawyers know about now

and say, shouldn't there be this form from this FBI agent because I saw this and such and such and such and the answer is yes, it probably should have been, now you have a more fair system in that way. But also you have people who are getting misinformation and people have this tendency. If it's in writing, it must be true. That's why scam artists are so successful, right?

I have a authoritative voice. I'm telling you this. I'm asking a question. And therefore, they think this must be real. And people are getting scammed in real time on misinformation, but then they refuse to let their ego down to say, you know, I could be mistaken. I could be wrong.

But it goes back to mistrust. You get misinformed if you don't trust the source. We kill the messenger every single day because the messenger, well, has been inaccurate at times. but in a 24 or 7 news cycle like I'm in you know sometimes you are informing but that's just part of the story it's not the wrong story it's the beginning of the story

right you look at say a trial for example if you judge an entire trial by the charge or the arrest you never get to the fairness part of it you just say oh they got them they wouldn't have stopped them they didn't have something but there's so many things that go into that whether it's, was it a reasonable stop? Did they have probable cause?

Was it racial profiling? Do they have evidence? Is it the right person? Do they have the right people to testify? Let alone, do they actually have the burden of proof met? So fairness is so flexible, unfairly, and unreasonably. But really, it's in the eye of the beholder. But in a way, that's kind of how the jury of our peers envisioned it.

Because I want your take. want your take I want your take I want your take and hopefully the result is fairness I was I was going to ask when you look at trials like you did a lot of coverage on a ditty trial yeah so did you says yeah but from the beginning right you were there's were times where you did make predictions or just like follow the story as it went was there any time where you flat out were like this is ridiculous they're overcharging him and you wanted to say that but couldn't um I did say it and I could But you're right to question the ability to be as vocal and as forthright, particularly in an anchor position.

When I was just being a contributor, I had a different role, right? Because then I could be a little bit more flexible. I'm still very honest and candid, but I have to moderate a conversation where I can't answer every question that I'm asking other people. So sometimes I agree with the person who's answering it. I don't agree with the person who's answering. I try to say that. But one thing that was really bothering me about that trial in particular is,

is, and you can set aside, frankly, all the, the backstory of violence. That's hard to even say because there's a huge backstory of violence there. And y'all broke the video. We broke the video, but they didn't charge that. And I think what happened in that case is it's that prosecutorial discretion that is very difficult to navigate. On the one hand, just because you can do something, should you? And the reason you have to balance that test is because everything one government prosecutor says finds the next one and so you can imagine the cases you go in and you even know that

somebody before you came in and argues them to the court but now whatever that judge heard is now assigned to you i have walked into court was before and done a sentencing and argued my case i just said well yeah but the government hasn't always take that that's a wrong position they just said that 20 minutes ago you're like well who who said that the government which prosecutor the government and so you're tied to that so one of the issues of having that case is that is that the new standard

to bring RICO for that type of case were there other matters to bring or other cases to bring other charges and should we have caught it much sooner why was the original case brought why were the violence cases not brought sooner and what messages that send in the long run to victims that you try to bring in and tell them

because it's a grind I want you to testify it's worth it please you're arguing not as for yourself but the next person down the line doesn't want to be victimized you try to convince that person to come forward well now you wonder if a very public trial and the person comes forward and and tells the most intimate horrific details of their life how much harder is it now for the prosecutor to come back and say no no forget what you saw you should still go forward because it will still matter theoretically in the end which is a harder case and so you know we don't go up there and say you are a private attorney I've been a private attorney before but as a prosecutor you represent the state or the jurisdiction or the country and so even if that person doesn't want to go forward there's a callousness you have to have it says well I'm not here for you I'm thinking about the next person who does not want it to be them but now it makes it harder but what do you I was going to ask you were on the you were an assistant

U.S. attorney huh when you saw that because remember they made the big deal about it being all white women that were prosecuting. Did you feel like race played a card? I think that race had a very big part in the assessment of this trial and the court of public opinion because people thought, why this particular person, is it because this is a black man who's achieved a certain level of income? It is the hearkening back to the highfalutin Negro syndrome that they would try to put on. The Man Act use, in terms of how that was looked at, remember, that was the

case involving, you know, Jack Johnson, who was a boxer, who was convicted of it for having had the audacity to date a white woman who happened to also be a prostitute at one time and married somebody else as well. So I wondered if that was a part of how people perceived it. But there is always going to be with the messenger for a jury how condescending you might appear, how judgmental you might come across. And there were certainly elements where I found myself wondering watching the jury and watching the presentation of evidence, how did that read? For example, when someone would say something like, he took the comment and rubbed it on his nipple.

Right. As an example, yes. Out of all the things, that came to mind, but, you know, or that might be a comment. And the person was saying, well, who would ever do that? That's just, and just very sort of disgusted by it. Now, you could be disgusted by it. Maybe it's your thing as well. The problem is, in this jury, they weren't asked that question.

I don't know in this jury of 12 or how many people, how many people, how many, you might get off on that or how many of you might feel as though well you shouldn't be in my bedroom so don't judge that that why are we here about that and so you always want the risk of coming across as you know whether actually as a black prosecutor or not as a Karen as somebody who is who knows better than you is going to elevate it to the authorities and you have to balance that they were good prosecutors though um but I think just the the image of and how portrayed, especially outside of the courtroom and the court public opinion, you cannot separate race and power and sex and rock and roll in that instance.

You think they got it right? The jury? You know, based on the presentation of evidence, there was no other result. And I was surprised that so many people who weren't inside the courtroom every day and weren't watching it and maybe we're reading transcripts thought, there's no way he can't be critical to RICO. And I thought, well, based on what's been presented, you are making people connect so many dots.

And RICO is complex, you guys, right? It's not just your average, you know, walk by someone's, you know, bar and say, it's a shame, you know, you have some nice windows here. Someone's gonna blow them up unless you pay this amount of money and pay this person, like a mob boss hair, or mob boss, whatever. It's much more complicated.

You gotta bridge all these gaps. And when they didn't call people like the right hand men women of Diddy, I wondered if the jurors thought, well, I've heard a lot about these people. Why have I not seeing any of them? Yeah, why is that? And the one man regal. Yeah, why is that? And the thing is, you could, technically, one person for conspiracy is enough? But again, back to your question about how fairness operates and how the law, people have so many questions about how can that be and is that fair. And in a way,

we all become, who are the 13th juror. And we have our minds going, all right in the grand scheme of things why are you so focused on this why this right or wrong that's their question well let me ask one of what other question you know so what he was charged with right do you think he should have got a bond or do you think that he should still be sitting in now because when they did research they said anybody with this type of charge usually gets slap on a risk community service a weekend in jail but it seems like for day charges I I didn't have heard no community service from the fed charge. Well, for prostitution.

You mean to leave Peggton and Tegas in October, right? So normally, if it's a very violent crime, you were held until your sentence because the expectation is you're going to be sentenced, so why not just don't get used to being out. But it wasn't violent. Right. When he was charged with it. And that's important to point you raised because the conviction was not a crime of violence. It didn't even require coercion, like, say, sex trafficking did.

But because the lawyers argued as a given, Yeah, he was violent. You didn't charge him with that. The judge said, well, this could qualify under the umbrella of the types of matters that are violent by your own admission, counsel. Even though he wasn't charged. Even though he wasn't charged. Now, why there's a fairness issue here is because they tell the jury at the beginning. The attorney's arguments and say they're not evidence.

You cannot consider what the attorney says, right? But the judge did. The judge considered the fact he said, well, he's, yes, he was. violent yes that happened in the hotel lobby or the hotel hallway that absolutely happened but he can he can actually look at those things to hold the person longer although i do wonder if in holding him now it makes the judge appear that much more objectively harsh therefore when he sentences if it's less than what the prosecution wants you can't accuse him of going light and soft on ditty, right?

What do you think he's going to get as a former federal prosecutor? I would be surprised if it went beyond two or three years with one year being credited to him time, his time already in. The reason for that is although you have 10 years per charge, normally you wouldn't run those consecutively, like where it's

you know, back to back up to 20 because the nature of the crime. And because he's a first time convicted offender in this context, sentencing guidelines have kind of a chart that says you know, this crime gives you this point, this other case can give you this point, and now I have a little category, now you're over here, and you're in this range. The judge can still say less or more, but it would be in

line with other cases if it was in the lower end. The prosecution, though, they want their bone and their dogs about it, because they have to be for the reasons of going forward and thinking we put these resources in. We feel that he's violent and that there should have been longer and more. They're going to go hard. But the judge, I think, will be in his right judicial mind if he's in the same range that Diddy has based on not being a prior offender. I'm glad I don't get in trouble anymore. I don't understand. None of y'all talking about. Really? I'm telling you. But that's why you hired a lawyer. Well, yeah, but you see, ain't none of your lawyers, but y'all understand this. I've just been there like,

all right, so does that mean I'm going to jail now? Like, you know what I mean? Like, scary. I have no, yeah. And then the thing is, right, up here, reports on a lot of these types of cases right and I understand yeah she does a great job I understand a little bit when she breaks down things I understand a lot more of it right but have you been following the Tory Lane's case right I have okay so Lauren just reported something basically like he's asking for his team is asking for evidence to be re-invented resubmitted right do you feel like just with your expertise right that is smart or could it be something there or are they just beating a dead horse at this point?

No, you have to exhaust every avenue you possibly can. And even though people think that the conviction is the end of the story until you get home, really you're fighting from the time to the time you actually get out because you really want everything to be analyzed. You want to suggest that the prosecution knew something and didn't tell you, right? you want to suggest that the cop was a dirty cop, that there was evidence that didn't come in, that the jury should have heard this,

but they didn't hear it. That's important because all of those things and all those arguments you make when you're in a trial, you're objecting to all those things. They really become placeholders. You object because on appeal, if you didn't, you can't raise him ever again. And then it becomes the end of the road for that defendant.

So he needs to try to submit whatever he can for his own ability to try to try, to get out of prison. It didn't mean it's successful. And judges in the appellate courts always know, they know, okay, you're going to tell me that this piece of evidence should have come in but didn't, or this evidence was heard, hearsay wise, was allowed in, but it shouldn't have been there.

And they get almost, like, callous to people in their arguments that they make. And that's why you think about the lifetime positions people have, as judges sometimes can be a good or a bad thing because they're so they've heard it all right you've imagine having a teenager and they're like oh nothing i didn't they have that look at the in their face of yeah right right and you're like really i haven't been a teenager before i haven't like my son's like i need to close the door in my bedroom like really i haven't been 12 before keep the door open no what do you mean i he thinks he's slick on something no i i i know what's going to happen or i think i know so i haven't i mean yes damn mom i keep my son is beautiful

That's right. And I see these girls. Oh, you didn't think you had a girl in the room. Oh, okay. No, no, no, not in the room. Oh, I'm not that mom. Oh. They would never be a girl in the room in my house.

No, no, no, no. This is my daughter or grandma. Absolutely not. No, no, no. But you think they know full well. They think they're being slick. And a lot of judges have that mentality of, oh, that's cute.

Oh, really? Is that what happened to? Or are you just guilty? And so he has to exhaust everything for his own really legal piece of mind. Yeah. But it doesn't mean there's anything there. Yeah. When you're sitting down.

10 years, you're trying every day to get out. I get a lot of prison mail and a lot of conversations, people who really, they hear, they fall the news and they hear about, you know, this prosecutor getting fired or this cop having this case and they go, that was my person. What does that mean for me? And the reality is it could mean nothing, but it could mean something. I want to ask one more ditty question. Yeah.

Of course you do. It's hard to get in more. It's hard to get him off. It's hard to get him off ditty. I want to ask one question. You know, we see his. attorneys come out and to me it doesn't seem like they're doing a good job when they're talking about did he wants to come out and do Madison Square Garden again just talking too much uh do you feel that way as

well try shutting up a lawyer that's that's number one right and the and that's that's part of it but i think they want the impression that this is such a minor offense that he should be able to do that right you wouldn't tell that for a murder suspect you wouldn't be like oh well you know when he gets out, let's do Meadowlands, right? No, you wouldn't do that. But you're talking about someone like Diddy, who their counsel, wants to project the image

that this is so minor. Come on. Come on. That they want that to be heard. And the court watched that. After sentencing? You would think they would do that after. But remember, they're building their case and they know a public case of this stature is very different

than the regular rigumero. Very different. The choices that are made the amount of eyes on it the celebrity factor people think oh they'll get a sweetheart deal because they're celebrity oftentimes i mean you got more heat on the prosecutors and the defense to do the do this case a certain way because they don't want the impression that they are giving anyone a pass and the defense team remember they have other cases they've got the luigi mangioni case right coming up they know full well they've got a jury pool that's going to be hearing from them in New York where they're going to want the impression that they are advocates

and zealous advocates throughout the duration of any case and they want the impression but no big deal what he said about um what he just asked you about uh did these lawyers yeah does one just say that or do you get could they be getting that from their client like lawyers just go and say things on their client's behalf like that without even checking with them or i my impression is that nothing is just said without Ditty's involvement. Right. Right. And that's a good thing.

You want his buy-in. I don't know that he has agreed to that statement, but you want your client's buy-in because you need to instruct them not to be their own worst enemy. And there has to be a collaboration about that. You know, you have a lawyer to be your advocate, not to be your echo.

Because your echo gets you in trouble. It said what you said. But your advocate is helping you to, that to spin what you have just said so that you're not going to hurt yourself in the end. And so on the one hand, his lawyer is saying it means, but I didn't say that, Your Honor, I take it seriously.

I'm in the class, I'm doing the work. That's them. At the other hand, if he buys it, I'd like to move on my life, as my attorneys have said. So it gives you enough cover. It gives you language. It gives you cover. And that's your job of your lawyer

because there's a myth that defense lawyers are like, they approach it and go, I'll only do this if you tell me, Did you do it? Did you really do it? Because my conscience tells me this. I'm Hunter, host of Hunting for Answers on the Black Effect Podcast Network. Join me every weekday as I share bite-sized stories of missing and murdered black women and girls in America.

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It's a different conversation, and that's how they're advocating. You know what I mean? See, I learned that from power. There you go. There you go. You like being a moderator or an anchor more. And the reason I ask is because sometimes you have people on and you're way more interesting than you do people there.

that's your hosting. So what do you like more, moderating or an anchor? Thank you for saying sometimes. You know, I think you have to be both. I mean, an effective moderator is the anchor. It keeps people there. The job is not just to be like, you know, vanilla.

And now you talk. No opinion? Okay, great. Now you talk. I can't say anything. Okay, here's my muzzle again. The point of an anchor in my book is to make sure that the conversation goes in the direction it stops where the people want to hear it right

other shows can float all around and do whatever they want to do but i am an anchor that ground the conversation and what the people want to hear and what they actually care about by the time you get 11 o'clock at night you all have heard everything you probably have an if you've chewed over so maybe you've heard about it maybe you didn't but you have an opinion on something so now you have the why now you've got the real why questions that come out and that's where i think that's where i think an effective moderator and anchor comes in but it is hard sometimes i tell you i sometimes i have blood in my mouth some days and biting my tongue because i'm like well that didn't make any sense what you just said um and i i say that but i have to be diplomatic right and other times

you have to get people's opinions in even when i believe they're the wrong opinion because they're based on misinformation and um so that that that that's where my anchor comes down anchor comes down again stop let's not move past this because people hear it in writing people hear it they believe it they see it they trust it no one contradicts it it's fact so i've got it at every level stop it from happening it's hard hell yeah it's hard what was your journey like when you first decided to get onto tv and like you would just pop in sometimes and kind of be like an illegal analyst yeah because you're so in tune with like pop culture and like you understand what's happening on social media and a lot of times the older networks or older anchors they don't like to accept that

at all so was your journey welcoming when you came in or were you was my journey well is it welcoming now to me let me think about that well um well i didn't come at this like most people did so when i left the do the do joj i didn't really have a plan to go into television it wasn't like i was thinking my whole life i want to be on television if anything i thought i would do scripted tv i wanted i did stage acting I thought maybe I'll do theater at part of my that'd be fun to do I wanted to follow my passions but then my husband came home one day after I had my first and second child and he came home one day they're back to back and he was putting a camera on the car and he calls me out and tell me there's this camera I go I don't need this what is this I don't need a camera what is this

what's going on and it was the same year of McBrown Traymond Martin and Sandy Hook frankly happened that year and I said what is this and my husband's from the Bronx right and so people in America come from the Bronx and and sexiest mom here you go and he he's very stoic not emotional like I'm the hurricane and he's like the grounding force and he had tears in his eyes he's like maybe it's not it's not really for you it's also for me because if I'm ever stopped by police I want you know it really happened. And I mean, I was a prosecutor then. And I was the one he was asking questions about can they do this and can they do that? And I thought I was giving answers that not only

made sense, but emotionally resonated. Like, okay, I can accept that. But it turns out in that moment, it was very clear that it didn't because there was an inevitability in his mind. This is his demise. And I thought, I'm maybe an exception to the rule for him. but it won't save his life. Yeah. And so I remember that day thinking, I need to make a change because I have this muzzle on in DOJ as a prosecutor. You can't speak to the press.

You can't inform people. You can't do that and stuff. And selfishly, between him and my baby boy, who's the oldest and then my daughter, I thought selfishly, I love them so much. I have to save their lives. And the only way I knew how was to use my mind as a weapon and as a tool. and again five three and a half like my stature wasn't going to do it but a platform could and so i didn't have a plan other than to pick up and leave one day and i made it because i'm dramatic i made

it MLK day so i could say free at last i left the building people laughed at me they said my people roger said no you actually said that on the way out i sure did free at last because it was jane 15th and my supervisor laughed he was laura when you come back could you write your review in advance so I don't have to do it when you come back. And I thought there was kind of a taunting. I just couldn't do it. And I remember having nothing. Like I had, you know, I had my mind.

I had my husband. You had a dream. I didn't know how to form it. I had a Panera bread. Thank you. I'm okay. I had a mountain top. All things.

Thank you very much. I had the old stuff. I had a Panera bread in my neighborhood. And I literally had put a business card into a firehouse subs, like win subs for. for a year bucket. And I won the year of Firehouse Subs, I kid you not. And that was like, I was nursing my daughter still.

My son was only about a year or so. They were 18 months apart, he lived over a year. And I remember like posting up in a pin air bread saying myself, how do I do, how do I go from, I want to speak truth to power by telling you what the truth is? How do I do that? I don't know anyone in media. I don't know anything about it. What can I do?

And I just sat there day and day out, writing. And in trying to get my op-eds written, going on radio. I was on Sirius XM. Karen Hunter helped me out. And she put me on to do, like, commentary. I didn't know any of my daughter. One of my first episodes with them, my daughter was nursing, because I didn't have daycare with it.

I couldn't leave. And, you know, as a woman, I wasn't comfortable. Even though I trusted my husband. I believe in him. I couldn't just leave the babies. Or, I mean, I couldn't, no, I couldn't just say, you take care of all the finance. figure this out. I had to do something. And so I remember having my kids with me at one point

and just figuring it out. But that turned into television and doing hits. And then being, then consistently never slipping, consistently being authentic in the information, being truthful, having the wit, having the charisma, being able to, you know, slap down the disrespect, which often happened. People would sort of do the pat you on the head. And I look young. And this is 10 years later, so I looked even younger. And people want to make you feel as though you don't know as much as they do because you saw the Watergate movie and they lived through the Watergate era. And you're like, you know what I mean?

But now I'm like, well, I remember saying one person, I said, well, I get that. But neither of us was here for the Constitution. And so what's your point, right? But having to do that on air, having to make in that moment be your own champion and just do what I tried to do for other people for myself. But that was a 10 year, and it's still ongoing. To this day, to this day, I have to figuratively put on a coats jersey before I walk into my own studio because there are people who will every day try to,

you think getting to the top, if I'm there or not, I don't know, but getting to a top is hard, try staying there. And so I just go back. I sign every new deal I ever do. Whenever I have a book deal, whatever I'm doing, I make them sign it in Panera. So I'm sitting there looking and going, I remember with my daughter nursing,

not knowing what the hell I was doing. And I get a firehouse sub, the engineer, turkey with mushrooms, and Swiss cheese, because it was free for a year, which you could might explain sometimes the waistline, but whatever. And that's how I remember and keep grounded,

because I hope I will never be the person who's more comfortable in the upper echelons than walking through my own neighborhood. I got so many questions, but... About Panera? I mean, just in general. Like, as I'm hearing you talking, I'm hearing things that's coming to me.

Lauren said something, and you were talking about being welcomed. And I thought about that. I'm like, yo, there are a lot of clicks that seem like in this media space, you know? And it's like you'll have groups of women that are in news and sports. then they all hang out and then you see groups women over here I don't

never see you with them clicks I'm a mommy yeah well that well they they mommy differently than I mommy I I and I'm okay with the way that I'm social I'm on my own terms and I really met somebody who values like I I I love my remember wins if you can't look at me and have a remember when moment you're not gonna be part of my everyday crew right and and because I think so many people, especially in this industry, they want to post their life, I want to live my life. And with my children in particular, I'm sensitive, right?

So I can't guarantee you that I'm not going to come find you if you post a bad comment at my child. And I, but I have a mortgage, so I can't do that sort of stuff, right? I can't be that scrappy. So I'm sensitive about preserving, like, my peace by keeping my life private. But on the other hand, it's part of the job. It's part, and I wrestle with this every single day. I'm at as many events

than probably anyone else. I see it as many people. I don't just, I don't post it. And that can be a problem for people. They think, oh, well, and that translates to something. But I have to, I have, and I'm not always the most, I mean, I'm very outgoing, but I love my circle and my life.

And they are full of remember wins. And I love that. But the clicks, they're real. And the clicks I think can sometimes, and, you know, I'm cool with everybody. That doesn't mean that I'm not cool with them. But the clicks can sometimes operate to make you think that where you are is the top. And they want you to compare and think, well, if you're not doing what you're doing, then you're doing nothing.

And in my mind, I let you climb. Your peak is not my peak. Climb. But just don't step on me on the way because then you will be talked to about it. Like, I'm not, I'm nice and I'm friendly, and I have a, you know, I'll speak and everyone. I'm always going to be very, especially among my peer group, very respectful until. And I think a lot of those clicks have forgotten those neighborhoods you still want to remember. Yeah, I mean, look, I'm not, I don't pretend to be anything I'm not.

I grew up in Minnesota. So what I look like, acting like I didn't, right? Or, you know, I went to Princeton. So I'm not going to pretend that I'm something I'm not. I'm not going to, you know, I grew up, I'm the youngest girl. We're all lawyers, my three sisters, two sisters, all lawyers. Like, I'm not going to pretend that we have not climbed as well. But I'm also the daughter of a man who grew up in foster care.

I'm, you know, I'm a daughter of, you know, my mom's parents left North Carolina to go to Stamper, Connecticut, to work in the homes of people who've become my clients when I was a lawyer, right? I know where I come from. I'm a black woman in America, African American, in this country. And so when I when I see people trying to make you think that you're only phenomenal if you are the exception to your race, I'm not having it. I don't want to be involved in it. But I do tell you that the clicks can make you, sometimes you feel low.

I mean, this is a very lonely field. You know, there are times that I absolutely feel very lonely because I don't see what I give out return to me. But I also feel like everyone in the end will have to reckon with whatever their own demons are. And I'm not the person to point them out every single day. But it's lonely sometimes. That's why I turn to my family a lot and I remember whens. And I am very discerning about who I let into my private thoughts. because there are so many people who will take that

just enough to try to turn it against you. And I'm just not that interested. I didn't come into it because I wanted to be famous. I didn't come into because I wanted to wear makeup. I already wore makeup. I was already cute as hell. I already dressed well. I already took care of myself.

I already had the shine that I wanted in my career. I was very proud of what I was doing. I came into it because it was a love letter to my fan. So I'm not going to whip it up just to have a follower. I want to go back to that because you said something. I don't know why my brain thought it is, but you talked about your husband putting the cameras in the car. Yeah.

And you're a federal, you were a prosecutor. It made me think a queen is swimming. That's the thing that frustrated me about that movie. I'm sorry, Lena, I got to get this off. You are a prosecutor. If you were in that situation, and the cop shot at you and your man as a prosecutor, would your mind say I'm going on the run?

I would not. I would not run, but I don't necessarily have the same relationship interaction with the police that they did. I don't always had the same fears. I have a very different take. Not that I trust police officers inherently, but I don't distrust them inherently. And so I would think I could fight. I would think I could fight it. Now, would everyone think they could fight it?

Would a 16-year-old version think I could fight it? Would a 60-year-old version think I could fight it? I don't know. But I would try to fight. in the movie she was a lawyer but why not a fight that's what I thought no but that's a movie I don't know I don't know I know I know I always wondering about that I don't know why you made me think of that it could be real like it could be a real life situation now would Penera bred you panera bread would have nursed that orange scone all day on the run

that's what happened but you know but that's best thing every you know every year I feel different. I know my people used to me tell me that. About Panera? No, I still love it. I still love it. But every year, every year I feel different. You don't go to Panera. One day I'm going to tell you, like, now I own all Panera breads. That's the end of the story. It's amazing. I believe it. But like I, you know, one day, I mean,

I think you're just different. Who you would be and what you have, and what you what your optimism level dictates what you're going to fight for. Like I, I'm still in the optimistic range where I'm like I can make this work. Yeah. It's a looting because you'll call me

check me in two seconds absolutely i do i want to ask this to you uh were a federal prosecutor in the civil rights division of the u.s department of justice during the bush and obama what i wanted to ask you is you know we hear people say things like donald trump is taking us back he's you know all these executive orders have you know repealed these rights and he's taking us back to this time there's people to come up here and ask like what year we think we live in i'm like we're in 2025 like but i want to ask you simply to the people that are listening What rights are being scripted away from us right now? Number one, voting.

Okay. Voting, it's almost like you think about your health. If your health fails, nothing else matters. You know, if voting goes away, almost nothing else you want to argue about is important enough to counteract that. Because if you don't have a say, then you cannot speak later in a way that's actually going to fall in the right ears. And voting does that. And so the rolling back of rights, when I was in the Civil Rights Division in the voting section, We still had Section 5, which is the formula you use to determine whether an area of the country

that traditionally violated civil rights laws or had skewed voting rights and laws that impacted black people, period. There's a formula you use to figure out whether that person, that jurisdiction was qualified to have to ask for permission for any change they wanted to make. When I was there, that was gone. The formula is gone because the Supreme Court said, it's outdated. You know, we're in this sort of a post-racial world. We've had a black president now, so the same rules don't apply. So therefore, Congress, think of a new formula. And while you take your sweet time, everything goes astray. Well, that was the entryway point of why everything else is starting to fail in terms of Section 2,

which is the race-based and gerrymandering aspects of it. So that's the number one thing that people are rolling back. Voting. Number two, don't sleep on the Fourth Amendment reasonable search in Caesars and stops. you know any time you hear about a police brutality case of a driver or someone in their home or wherever it is we're talking about the fourth amendment what right the officer has to stop you question you touch you arrest you all those things the more power you give officers without having to substantiate that power based on probable cause or the constitution the more you live in a place where that goes away so for example with the National Guard or the FBI that's president in Washington, D.C., where I am. The question is not just whether they're supposed to be there because it's an emergency, quote-unquote,

but whether they're going to abide by the same principles under the Fourth Amendment. The standard right now is it's only unreasonable if a reasonable officer would feel it's unreasonable. Not whether you think it's reasonable, not whether you or you are you, whether a reasonable officer would think so, which incentivizes people to say,

well, I'm not going to call out my fellow officer because it could come back to haunt me. So I'm going to have sort of a, yeah, it's reasonable, kick him in the head. I mean, I can see why that could happen. Shot him accidentally. Oh, well, you know, I can see why that would happen. And they become the reasonable standard.

So that's what the cops know. There's already that issue. Now you add the National Guard, you add in the FBI, who they don't do average traffic. fix stops. They're not even, they don't even equip to that kind of work. They're not, they're also not necessarily used to adhering to the same standards because the nature of their work is so much more of an emergency that they have to be a little

bit more aggressive at times, they say. So now trying to balance all that out means that the more accepted it becomes that law enforcement has power, the less you have to say, wait, I have my rights. You can't do that to me. more becomes laughed at. So I think those are two areas to me that are the most problematic. There are others.

Voting in the fourth amendment. Yeah. Absolutely. We appreciate you for joining us. I got one final question. Uh-oh. There better not be a Panera question. Or M.K.

Grow up. Nobody said that. Now I'm curious. I got the two, well, one question I could put in the one. So when you didn't get jeopardy, right, you kept your response to how you felt very diplomatic. But a lot of people feel like you weren't in the thought,

even though he said you should be, because you were a black woman. Did you feel like it was a race thing of the reason why you weren't even considered as like in the guest hosting slider, just called in and even try out? I thought it was bullshit that I wasn't asked to try out. I thought it was something that was the machinations behind the scenes where people decide who their heroes and celebrities ought to be. and merit didn't matter. And that's how I honestly feel about it.

I feel like, I mean, so whether it was a race, I don't know as much it was a race thing, as much as it wasn't a youth thing. Now, who I am is a black woman. So if it's me, then it was that. But I was always very resentful of it, and I still am, because I think it'd be much easier

to have a job where the answers are already in front of me, like on Jeopardy, anything else. But as I see how they say, everyone's journey is their journey for me I was honored that he was specific he was kind when I reached out to thank him I was grateful to have a chance to get to know him a little bit during that but it wasn't his call

but here's what here's what that told me and the lesson I never forget the fact that it wasn't Alex Trebek's call who'd replace him told me I have to examine power differently right? and I have to examine who really is in control very differently. And in many ways, I'm happy that it happened

because I approach all my negotiations and business dealings that if my name's on something, it belongs to me. And that includes the agency to do with it what I want. And if I had gotten it, just because someone's, oh, I think it'd be her. That's great, be her? I might not have approached it the same way. and but I still think it's I think it's ridiculous

I thought Alex died he did die before he passed along before he passed he asked what he he wanted to replace him and he said he passed away from pancreat cancer sadly which is just my grandmother had the same thing and it was just what a horrible disease

and cruel but I was honored to even be mentioned in it but I still feel some kind of way about it before he died he said that she's one of the people that should be considered oh dope but you never even got to see her be considered wow but i was told i was told when i when i spoke to it maybe i'm telling too much information when i did try to fight for it they

said well maybe uh well a particular person who name i came or call he's that irrelevant to me now now call that nigger i can't i can't i honestly care for his name i don't remember i care for his name but i remember he was like but you know what if you ever you can be my assistant on a podcast wow no to research on a podcast i was like i'll be your assistant to research on the podcast who do you think you're talking to you not me what game show did i would see you host that he i hadn't he's he watched me on cnn wow and he also i did radio i did serious xm for a long time and so he would he was a radio guy himself when he started out and so um he said that he respected the the work that i did and um and the the mind and thought it would be a a beautiful match wow wow it was really cool

in my last question i was what did that help in how you navigated because people started having a conversation about you and Caitlin Collins when people felt like you were shorted in that situation with getting a full-time anchor roll well I had the anchor roll you might didn't have the nine o'clock hours you mean okay um you know I think people have a tendency to to always ask you know and why her and not this person and they assume that um that there is beef but I I really I believe that I am I'm where I'm supposed to be in this moment and let everyone climb the way they want to climb

let people enjoy the fruits of their labor because I enjoy mine but the work is so far from being done so I think you know where I am and where I'll end up are two different things by far one this the strongest lineup on cable news I mean I can literally go from Anderson Cooper no it's Aaron Burnett Anderson Cooper

to Caitlin Abby Abby and then you like yeah that's by far this girl's this line of well we appreciate that I mean we're we I know at CNN are very grateful for the audience because you know trust issues can change people right and also there is the emergence I even you said not even negative CNN but there's the emergence of new media right there are I mean there is yeah you talk about this that you know there is the the old guard of legacy media who some people think is all that should be and And then there are people who actually have it right, who's up in that mindset, of I want to access as many people as possible where you are.

And that needs to be necessarily on the medium that you think it is, but I hope that our audience is used to grow and that people appreciate every person on our lineup for what they bring because every single person contributes in a different and unique way. And the format of the show is unique and different in a way that helps people to find they're truth seekers and that's important and if you don't feel that way then you should tell people let them let give

people a chance to to um to hear what you need and what you want but I don't want to be like in an ivory tower where I'm like here's the way the news does I'm not stuffy I'm not you know I'm not trying to be Walter Cronkite I don't want to be I want to be Laura Coates and I'm cool

with that but what I don't want to be is who you think Laura coats ought to be. I am at the 11 o'clock hour. I hold it down as an anchor. I'm strong-willed about that, but I think there is always room for improvement. My last question, you know, you're a mother, you're a wife, you know, former prosecutor on CNN. When do you have time to be this fun ratchet Laura Colts I keep hearing about? Everybody that I know that hung out with you and kicked it with you, they got, they see something else. That's crazy. You got you up here to call.

Oh, you're wretched. I know what I'm just saying. I saw people come back in the vineyard and they were like, yo, Laura Coach, though. Ractivity is crazy. I don't know. I'm, I hope I'm the same person, but you have to be talking about the Constitution here. But I mean, really, I make time for fun. I make time for love and joy because in the end.

I started the whole interview, but that's what happened was, right? Wretched, no, you know what? I got to be who I can be, and I want there to be a through line. You know, the best advice I ever got was from Steve Harvey, who said to me that, you know, Laura, I am the same person no matter where you see me, period. And I hope that that's me

just might be a little bit different outfit, different hair, different ponytail, different heel color, different lipstick, different eyeliner. I'm the same person. It's just that, you know, who I may, it would be, I would never want to try to be who I was not, but every circumstance is not called for my ratchitous.

Word. Some really do. And sometimes I'm like, oh, you think this is not. Oh, let me take my earrings off second. Hold on one second. Hold on one second. I'm not the one or the two. Laura Colts.

I love it. Thank you, guys. Nice to join us this morning. And don't be a scrangium, man. Like, there's things that we can, you know, talk about. Thank you for teaching me some thing. Thank you. I appreciate that.

You said something earlier. You talked about armchair attorneys, and I feel like we have a lot of those. And I don't know if people are becoming more legally literate or getting worse and understanding the Constitution than our rights. So we need people like that. Well, I appreciate that. And I'm honored to be here, and I respect you all so much.

Thank you for letting me come. Thank you so much. It's Laura Coates. It's the Breakfast Club. Good morning. Oh, no. Every day I wake up. Wake your ass up.

The Breakfast Club. You're all finished or y'all done? Let's start with a quick puzzle. The answer is Ken Jennings' appearance on The Puzzler with A.J. Jacobs. The question is, what is the most entertaining listening experience in podcast land? Jeopardy-truthers believe in... I guess they would be Kenspiracy theorists. That's right.

They give you the answers and you still blew it. The Puzzler. Listen on the I-Heart radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast. I'm Hunter, host of Hunting for Answers on the Black Effect podcast network. Join me every weekday as I share bite-sized stories of missing and murdered black women and girls in America. Stories like Erica Hunt. A young mother vanished without a trace after a family gathering on 4th of July weekend, 2016. No goodbyes, no clues, just gone.

Listen to hunting for answers every weekday on the Black Effect podcast. Podcast Network, IHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. The Super Secret Bestie Club podcast season four is here. And we're locked in. That means more juicy chisement. Terrible love advice. Evil spells to cast on your ex. No, no, no, we're not doing that this season.

Oh. Well, this season, we're leveling up. Each episode will feature a special bestie, and you're not going to want to miss it. My name is Curley. And I'm Maya. Get in here. Listen to the Super Secret Bestie Club on the Iheart radio app,

Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast. So what happened to Chappaquittic? Well, it really depends on who you talk to. There are many versions of what happened in 1969 when a young Ted Kennedy drove a car into a pond. And left a woman behind to drown. Chappaquitic is a story of a tragic death and how the Kennedy machine took control.

Every week, we go behind the headlines and beyond the drama of America's royal fans. Listen to United States of Kennedys on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast. This is an IHeart podcast.