The Breakfast Club - INTERVIEW: Lee Daniels & Andra Day Talk New Film, Faith Thrillers, Mo'Nique, Jussie Smollett + More

Episode Date: August 19, 2024

The Breakfast Club sit down with director Lee Daniels and actress Andra Day to dive deep into their latest film, ‘The Deliverance.' Lee Daniels opens up about the process of creating faith thrillers and the impact these stories have on audiences. Daniels' touches on his experiences working with Mo'Nique, Jussie Smollett. Listen for more!See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

Wake that ass up in the morning. The Breakfast Club. Morning, everybody. It's DJ Envy, Jess Hilarious, Charlamagne Tha Guy. We are The Breakfast Club. Now, Jess is on maternity leave. So Lauren LaRosa is holding it down with us. And we got some special guests in the building. New film Deliverance is on Netflix August 30th. Ladies and gentlemen, we have Lee Daniels and Andra Day. Welcome. Andra, Lee. Andra, you working. Andra. Andra, I'm sorry. Andra Day.. Andra. Lee. Andra, you working.

Andra. Andra, I'm sorry. Andra Day. I said Andra Day. Andra, you working. Is it Andra or Andra? I know some people do say Andra. Some people say it, but it's Andra.

I don't know, I'm fucked up for that. You literally call me by my character's name. I call you by your character's name. But you do say Andra. You always get it right. Right, okay. You actually always get it right. Andra Day.

Oh, you were seriously just asking her? Yeah, because sometimes I get it wrong. He be, he be. Okay. He has never said it. He's never said Andra. Because I'm always in her character name. Yeah, because sometimes I get it. He does. He does. Okay. He has never said it. He's never said Andra. Because I'm always in her character name. Got you. When she's working.

Yeah. But I am always either Billy or Ebony. How are y'all feeling, first and foremost? How are y'all feeling? Good. I think good. Yeah. Really good.

Yeah, I feel good. I'm always good when I'm with her. Yeah, we're chilling. When did y'all develop this chemistry? Because it clearly can't be just something that's done when y'all are working. You must like being with each other. We go like no we go together i told her i was like you stuck for life right um we didn't i didn't want her for i didn't want to meet her for billy because she hadn't acted before yeah i really didn't you know and then she didn't want to do billy because i hadn't acted

before and then i met her yeah talking to the mic will you put your lips on the mic then I met her and then I fell in love with her and then we just sort of like we it became kismet and then you see

what that chemistry is like you always see what the chemistry is like what it is on screen and what she was was what Billie was was

the love we have for each other yeah yeah same it was we had I didn't want to do it either because I was just

you know scared to act and because I had to do it either because I was just you know scared to act and because I had never done it before and I do respect the craft but I was like well let me just meet with him because you know at the end of the day he's a great person to meet like he's a legend and maybe he wants music for the movie something like that you know and we did we literally just fell in love and I also that day fell in I love Billie Holiday like that's where the day in my name comes from and so I saw in, he was a huge fan of Lady Sings the Blues. But he had discovered newly her story, how she was fighting against racial terror in America, singing Strange Fruit, like to the detriment of her, you know, her life was in danger.

And so he really wanted to tell that story, vindicate her legacy. And that was just like, wow, that's amazing. And then, you know, you don't often meet people who believe in you sometimes even more than you believe in yourself. And that is, that's how Lee has been in my life. So at this point, it went from like, hey, I don't know how to just like, I trust him when it comes to anything. Lee, as a director, do you have like actors and actresses that are like a muse for you like sort of like when a painter finds a favorite color a favorite hue they use it in all their art

yes Monique is one of them Nicole Kittman is one of them Glenn Close now is one of them Andrew is certainly one of them they're a group of people that I Taraji P. Henson there's a group of people that I, Taraji P. Henson, there's a group of actors that you just know,

that know I'm a nigga, that know that I, you know, I don't, I'm not politically correct when I'm talking, you know, I come from a specific generation that I don't, you know, and that they protect me from myself. Got you. Is that what he says? I'm a 65 year old man. And I don't know how to,

sometimes I don't know the rules of today. I don't want you to. I want you to be yourself. Sometimes he has no rules because there's things that he could have said 20 years ago

that would be fine that he can't say now. They would try to quote on quote. But he's 65. We know how our elders get. You know how our people get. No, we know how our people get.

I was saying earlier, I love watching you in interviews. You don't do a lot of them though. Is that why? No. I can't. No, we know how our people get it. I was saying earlier, I love watching you in interviews. You don't do a lot of them, though. Is that why? No, I don't. Okay. Because I know that, you know, that's new cancel culture. But the way you be talking, I'm like.

Right before I pushed send, I got social media. I have to hire. What the hell? You got to hire a social media person now to tell you not to push? I literally have to hire a social media person because i'll say the wrong word you go yeah it's really crazy that's not how it started and for you what the hell song was that who is that oh no i was like he turned his phone off i turned that off i don't even know what it was it could be porn

he said it could be porn let me tell y'all he turned the whole phone off he said just turn the whole thing off yeah it could be porn anyway now how was monique doing you mentioned monique how was she doing she's great you know what and that made me take a look at this at that interview that you know when she was up here called a menard

you know it was she was up here called a menor. You know, it was fantastic getting back together with her. It was part of the reason that we did the film for me was I think we're in some dark time. I'm always a step ahead of it. I think I'm a little psychic because I'm a little ahead of everything that's happened. And I remember when I did Empire, it was really to,

because I was experiencing so much homophobia from my own people. It was hard enough to get movies made as a black man when I came into Hollywood, because it was sort of pre-Spike Lee and post the black exploitation era. But the homophobia was really real and I dealt with it with my own people.

So anyway, I did Empire and that, you know, I didn't even know what I was doing. I was just expressing my feelings, you know? And the same thing with this right here. This, I feel we're in dark times. I know that we were in dark times. And for me, it was about finding my higher power. You know? And after I did the movie, there was a group of us

that were summoned to Biden's. We were trying to figure out how to get him into office because black men weren't voting for him. And so it was Chris Rock and Sam Jackson. Y'all just up there wasting y'all time. Instead of just telling that man the truth that he needed to step down. No, no, no. This is before.

We understood in that meeting that he needed to step down. I was saying a year ago he needed to step down. What made you think that? Because we've been saying it for a long time and people were saying that we were not representing and this, that, and the other, but we seen it and felt it. A year ago, Lee. A year ago, I was saying it and felt it. What did you see in that meeting? A year ago, I was saying

he should step down. Yeah, and he was giving me hell for it. I was really, I was giving you hell for it. I know. Then you walked in that meeting and you was like, what?

No, it was like, oh, this is the president of the United States. Whoa. But he would come back with very much alertness. He would be like this, and we'd say, is he there? And then he would come back with very much like alertness. He was like he would be like this. And we say, is he there? And then you come up and go, I've done more for black people than any president in the United States of America, including Obama.

And he started listing off the facts and listing off the facts. And like I think Queen Latifah was like, well, you should tell people this. You should be out in the streets telling people this because black men need to understand this. And he said, I'm too busy trying to stop nuclear war. I'm glad you said that. Continue, I'm sorry. He said, I'm too busy trying to stop nuclear war to go out and promote myself and what I'm doing

because I'm doing the work. And then I realized that in that moment how serious he was because it got real somber in there. And I said, this is the reason why I'm doing the work. And then I realized that in that moment how serious he was because it got real somber in there. And I said, this is the reason why I'm doing my movie because like this, boom, right now, going, bah. We better be able to find it. I don't care whether it's Allah. For me, it's Jesus.

It's Buddha. We need to find our higher power. And that was the purpose of me trying to do this film right now. I said what I was saying. I was talking about earlier this week, how there's so much casual conversation about nuclear war. And like everybody's so focused and distracted about the nonsense. Like Donald Trump and Elon Musk had a call the other day,

and Donald Trump literally said on the call, we should be worried about nuclear warming because North Korea's crazy. China's crazy. Russia's crazy. All it takes is one maniac to push a button. And we focused on all the nonsense that he said instead of like, no, listen to what he said just now. And to hear that Biden said that to you, that's crazy. It was terrifying.

Yeah. It was terrifying. And so, because we could be going tomorrow. And so for me, it was really about, and that was part of Monique too, you know, part of the healing of it all. It's like, you know, who cares whether, I don't care what I did.

I mean, whatever it was that I upset you about, I upset you. I'm whatever it was that I upset you about I upset you I'm 65 years old I don't want to I want to make sure that I'm good you know that this is as much I can spread as much love and do as much healing as I can and that was part of the whole journey of of this of this film what is it about break down what it's about for people that don't know you you're good at it you're really good um it's uh you know okay so you know where do i start with this it's it's really it well first of all it's a story about this single mother single black mother and um she's really she's dealing with a at the crux of it there's spirit like he said trying to scare you to your higher power but there's also a lot of generational trauma so it's this idea that she's trying to be

the best mother that she can be she's trying to pour into her kids with all the tools that she's been given which is not much but she has been given a lot of pain and so her mother has now moved into the house with her so she's kind of faced with that trauma daily but her mother is also a product of trauma so it's definitely talking it's physically she is fighting demons right the kids are actually possessed and so you have that element that horror element in there um but she's also battling her own personal demons and i love the metaphor that the demons that we don't deal with in ourselves they will absolutely possess our kids in future generations and rob us of our futures it's really you know one of the things i say and we've talked about the genre a lot because that's the question is it

thriller is it horror is it i think that for people to think that this is solely a horror movie they would be remiss to to walk away from it based on just that uh there's there's it's a it's a faith-based thriller it's a family drama it's a it is a horror movie so there's a faith-based thriller. It's a family drama. It is a horror movie. So there's a lot of elements, but it's based on a true story ultimately. It's based on the haunting of a house in Gary, Indiana, the Ammons haunting. Latoya Ammons. Latoya Ammons. But loosely based off of that.

Lee really did a great job of just creating new characters in their own life. So I think there's a lot of lessons in it. There's a lot of healing in it. You know, there was a friend of mine actually who went to one of the screenings and I actually saw her in church that following weekend. And I had asked her if she goes here. She said, no, I watched the movie and then I showed up here on Sunday. And so I think there's a lot of healing and transformation, as he said, regardless of what your faith is. But, you know, she's a budding alcoholic. You know, she's dealing with addiction.

She's trying to cope in a bunch of ways. She's trying to be better than the generation that came before her, which is what we're all trying to do. So basically, it's about, oh, yeah, I think that. And then we think that she's abusing her kids. And so social services comes. The cops come. The principal principal come take the kids away and there's it and then they see a little kid walking up upside down behind the wall so they realize that uh but they still got to take the kids because the kids are being abused in the house and uh so it's uh she's fighting social services because they will not believe that she's not beating her kids and the demon in the house.

It's about black women not being believed. And it's also about finding, she has to find her higher power to fight that demon that's in the house. And I like y'all talking about horror, right? Cause it's not just the demons that are the horror. Like you said, it's the generational abuse, it's the alcoholism, it's the poverty, it's the addiction. Those are all horrors. Precious was a horror movie to me.

Yes, absolutely. I agree, I agree. I said that out there. That was an African American horror movie. Listen. African American horror movie. I agree, yes. It, it.

I mean, you ain't shit for that. It. Yes. You ain't shit. It wasn't though. You ain't shit. Some people say it was a comedy. No, I think to his point, if you are a daughter and you grew up in a household with a mom who is dealing with her own things and doesn't know how to mother you through that, you watch something like Press It, it make you be like, oh shoot, I remember that feeling. It does give that.

You felt it. Definitely PTSD. I felt like that watching this. Yes, for sure. That's definitely PTSD. Okay. So how'd you not get traumatized? I, you know, I don't know that I didn't get traumatized.

No, no. I mean, I'm a praying person. I'm a person of faith. So I think that, you know, even going into it, you know, there has to be like intention, right? I think if this was just sort of exploiting, you know, black black pain if this was exploiting kind of the demonic realm i believe in the spirit realm right i'm a christian i'm a believer um so even initially when he first brought it to me initially it was a yes just because at this point i had just really again fallen in love with this person i'm like i trust him completely i'm excited about everything

he's doing um but my only hesitation was oh do I want to do something that deals with that? Obviously, if you've come from any type of church background, people can be very, very, they have their very strong opinions about why would you. You can't even watch horror movies. Yeah. My mama was a Jehovah's Witness. Don't turn to me, you'll see what I'm talking about. Exactly. So they, you know, like you said, people feel like, oh, they can jump on you, they can do. But I think we also have this misconception that we're never supposed to look into that world or talk about that world. But me the scriptures that I read I'm like it's all throughout it and I think what I loved about this and what I loved about Lee's goal is that he

didn't want to just kind of you know marinate in that area he wanted to show a story of overcoming and that's what she does and so for me it was really, it was praying going into it. Like I, what I will say is that I, I had a hesitation just because of the, the, the subject matter, but I prayed about it. And I was reminded in prayer that it's like, if you believe what you say you believe, then that means you have authority over these things. You know, they are, they are under your foot. And if you're going to be a light, then you have to go into dark places. And so I really love that represented in the movie.

And so I think that's probably why we prayed a lot. I mean, I know that's the reason why you were right for it, because you were a believer. You really believed. And there's a scene in the film, for those that have seen the film, when she's fighting the devil, where she just breaks out in tongue. And the AD, my white AD, was like, okay, so this isn't scripted. Do we cut? Do we do whatever? And she's speaking in tongue

and I'm like, this is God working. We're going to let it, we're going until she's tired. Oh, you really went into speaking in tongue? Like that? Oh, wow, okay. That was her. And so that's when I knew she was right for the role.

I mean, I knew that there was only one person that could play this role and it was an actor that really believed that belief. Is it true y'all had a preacher on set every day? Every day. Yeah, every day. Are you kidding me? We were terrified.

I mean, like, I didn't know, my mother didn't want me to do this movie in the beginning. After Precious, I was offered this film, and I didn't want to do it because, you know, I felt like I was revisiting it already with a woman that was abusing her kids. But more importantly, I know how I work and I demand the truth. I work from a place of, I'm an open portal.

Right, for sure. I'm an open portal and I know what comes to me and what I give out. And I said, this is going to land in my spirit. And that's why I sat on it for such a long time, y'all. I didn't want to do the movie after Precious. And I just realized it's not about the darkness it's really about finding your light and about finding a higher power and yeah what do you do like you're easily cuz you you you're with this material longer than anybody

yeah from beginning then my sister I haven't talked about this yet but my sister is in the scene who's done all my movies with me, every one of my movies, she's in my movies. My sister was in the chemo scene with Glenn. And the following day, she was diagnosed with this lung cancer. No way. It was dark. Wow. You got something popped in your face.

Remember that? Yeah, I remember that. Yeah, it was a fire extinguisher. She's putting out a fire of demons, and then that's a thing that happened. My dog died. It was everything that happened. Your dog died?

Yeah. Jesus. Yeah, it was everything that you think happened, and that's with praying practically before every scene. Now, Netflix was like, when we first bust out in prayer, Netflix was like, I'm sorry, but we're going to have to call HR because, you know.

Really? I said, what, huh? We can't pray? Well, you know, I go, okay, so I got to make an announcement to 300 people. Those that don't want to pray, step. But please, you got to let us pray.

We got to ask permission to pray now. This is what I was saying. This is what I was doing. You got to ask permission to pray. It's's different. You got to ask permission to pray. It's a bit different where we come from because we're rooted in that, right? So a question for you with Leah. How is she right now? How is she doing now?

It's not Leah. It's my sister. Oh, you know my sister Leah? Who doesn't know her? Oh, wow. That's nice. She's beautiful. Yeah.

I'm from Delaware. Yeah. Leah Butler? Yeah. Oh,, that's nice. She's beautiful. Yeah. That's my sister. Leah Butler? I'm from Delaware, so. Leah Butler? Yeah. Oh yeah, absolutely. Yeah, I'm from Delaware though, so y'all are like, we know you guys,

like you guys went to Hollywood, you did all this stuff, so familiar with the family. No, my sister Gurley, who I created Empire after. Got you, okay. To the mic, Lee, to the mic, to the mic. My sister Gurley, who I created Empire after, Cookie, the character of Cookie, she was a drug dealer and sort of turned her life around and everything.

And she was, I'm really proud of her. She turned her life around and she works for me in locations. She does all that. She was just diagnosed during working for the film. It was devastating. Wow. Would you dive into another movie like this? Because it seems so dark.

Never again. I will never again. Because I don't do scary movies, but it just seems so dark and it's hard to get out of. I started watching. I don't do scary movies. So when it starts getting a little crazy, I start hearing noises at night. I'll start thinking I hear. I like that.

I like that. It's just the end. My situation is too wild. It's just the end that's a little scary. I don't think that I will do it again because it takes all, like you said, it's like all consuming. They're gone. I'm in that edit room. I'm still hearing noises.

Right. And then also it's difficult to, it's a different type of a film for me to do. It's a whole different experience because drama is like this. Boom, boom, boom, boom, boom, boom. And I got that down. This experience is like it's like a slow dance you know you got it's like it's a whole different sort of thing that you're doing uh and i don't i just did it as an artist to just sort of grow gotcha i love it though i

think you ended up really creating almost a sub genre of horror like we've been talking about this a lot and that's why i say it's not a typical horror movie. No. It's very different. It's very interesting. What is it exactly? I don't know what it is. It's like a soulful,

dark thriller. Yes. It's like it sits with you. Like, I want to watch it with my mom and my grandma because we got some stuff we need to talk about but at the same time,

you might jump a little bit. Right. Yes. One of my questions for you after seeing parts of it and watching the full thing was when you, because with precious the mom the daughter had the issue now you see this here again from your life where does that come from or is that just something you think is something that needs to be addressed or is that something personal to you it's just

yeah it's all all everything that you see is a part of my life everything is part of my life it's personal and what i do is i live my demons out through all of my work. So everything you see on screen is a part of what it is that I have my life experience. The Glenn Close character, her character was written, she was black. So I tried to separate it because I really wanted to separate myself from Latoya Amon. So I made this character white because I have so many mixed race friends. What is it like to be a black girl with a white mom? What is it?

We all know that black, we all know that white girl, white woman that only dates black men, that has black children. We've never seen her on screen before. Glenn Close plays that chick. With the baby hair and the jewelry and the cut off shorts and this, you know. To me that was a, and I'm so proud

that she was able to delve into that because that's a character that we've never, black people know her, I don't think white people, I don't think white critics will understand the film. White critics will never understand this film. Going over their head. Oh, completely over their head. What is Glenn, what is this?

She's a G for attempting to play this role. The beef between, well, two questions. What was the beef between Monique's character and the grandma, and did that relationship in the movie reflect what you and Monique was going through at the time? The beef between the grandma, oh, that was real, they caught that, right? It was just that, you know, the grandmom knew that Monique was not right.

And Monique didn't like the grandmom, didn't care that the grandmom knew. So it was that type of energy. And no, that had nothing to do with what me and Monique was going through at all. Going back to work with Monique was like being on a bike. And it was great, man. It was just great. She's phenomenal. And what I loved about this right here,

in this right here, is that in Precious, she was the abuser. In this, she's the social worker in Gucci and jewelry looking beautiful going after the abuser. Right. is the social worker in Gucci and jewelry looking beautiful going after the abuser? Right. The conversation that you and Monique had,

we saw the picture you posted when y'all were out to dinner. Y'all were reflecting. You said just now it was like riding a bike. Like it's just something you naturally get to do after a while. Did I post that too? You posted that. Riding a bike?

No, you posted the picture and I just, you're riding the bike made me think about it because you said y'all were reflecting on your friendship. Like what's the moments that you guys reflect on during this that helped her, not even helped her because Monique is amazing on screen, but kind of like helped the working relationship in real life. Like what are y'all reflecting on?

Is it, remember Precious, is it like, what is that conversation like at that dinner? At that dinner, we had already, it was just having fun. We were just eating and having fun. Y'all already squashed y'all beef and problems a long time ago. We had worked on the film and everything. At that dinner, it was just like, can you believe this is over with? This movie is over with.

You know? Here's the thing, Monique. We, not only did I want to make sure that she was good, but I wanted to make sure that we worked again and that she was paid well for what it was. It was really important to me that she felt. You wouldn't have paid Monique again. You see, but now y'all can sit and laugh about it, right? But now you're hearing more and more artists talking about, you know, they're finally getting their value.

They're finally getting their worth. What do you say to that? She deserves it. Not just Monique. A lot of black actresses and actors have come up here recently and been like, we're finally getting out. But it's because of Tyler Perry. They're saying it's because of Tyler Perry. Tyler Perry's paying.

What are your thoughts on that? I think that I come from a generation of, and the last generation of just, we were just so happy to get in the door. I don't think you understand, like they weren't doing black cinema. I was just lucky to get, I felt blessed to be able to tell stories like Monsters Ball.

Are you kidding me? Like, are you kidding me? Like they laughed me out of every studio in Hollywood when I came to them with Monsters Ball. Who wants to see a fat kid at the end die by a what? No? With a mixed race? What?

Like, they didn't want to see that kind of stuff. So I had to go get drug money to develop this story. Y'all know my history. Y'all saw it up there with Damon Dash. I had to go into the streets to get my art done. Right. And I didn't care about it at all because the art was going to live. And I would do anything.

I would fall on the sword for my art. Hollywood wasn't fucking with me at all, because the art was going to live. And I would do anything. I would fall on the sword for my art. Hollywood wasn't fucking with me at all, no studio. Every single solitary movie I've ever done has been independently financed. The first time I stepped into a, anything, was with Empire, where I had to answer to the suits, studios, like, what, I gotta answer to people, okay? That was the first time. Why do you think the? I got to answer to people? Okay. That was, you know,

that was the first time. Why do you think the street dudes understood you more than Hollywood at that time? Or was it one of those things they were like, they just knew you special? Here's the thing, right?

I can't really scream homophobia with black men all the way because, you know, again, you know, that was where my support came from. Financially. Yeah, because they see you for what you are, which is a creative genius. Creative genius, yeah.

Very real. Who can help them do greater things with their money. Like, you know, I mean, what does sexuality got to do with it? Question, another question for you, and for both of y'all. When the demon reveals themselves. Oh God.

Back to the demons. Back to the demons. Back to the demons. Back to the demons. You made a movie about demons. Yeah. I know you can't wait until this crush run over. Right.

When the demon reveals himself to Ebony in the car and then she gets out, she runs off, is that symbol, like symbolizing like how, you know, there's things going on

and then you kind of like ignore, like you can't ignore it or like was it not even that deep and like why it wasn't even that deep it was like it was a slow it was a slow it was like an onion on onion opening like this is coming it's coming it's coming and again you know I don't again I don't look at it as a as a harm horror movie. You are so annoying. Because you said, it's coming, it's coming, and then he's like six. He's a baby with it. He wants to...

He's like a 20-year-old schoolgirl. He just starts giggling. He just goes, stop. His shoulders start moving. I don't know if you've seen him. Alright. Now back to the 21... Back to the grown folk table. The... It is, you know, it's, again, you know,

again, it's a faith-based thriller. And I think that the minute we start looking at horror, it's not a horror, because if you come in, Netflix even wanted it. They wanted a jump scare every two seconds. I said, that's not me. I don't know how to do it. I want to examine the human condition.

So it's a slow sort of burn into hell. It's uncomfortable. Yeah. You think you're watching Precious, and then I yank the rug from under you, and you're really watching a thriller. Why do you think it's so hard for Ebony to do right? Poor Ebony.

I know. A white woman called you. Can you imagine your white mother calling you Ebony? No. Naming you Ebony. Remember we talked about that? We were actually going to put that as a line in the movie too. Cause it was just like,

what kind of white woman named her child Ebony? Like she was just so excited to have black kids. But I think, I mean, listen, you know, it's a really interesting question. Why is it hard for Ebony to do right?

Why is it hard for any of us to do right? You know what I mean? Like, don't we all struggle with it to some degree, right? You know? So I think that, like I said,

you know, I don't know. And I don't know that she always thinks that she is doing wrong. You know what I'm saying? So this is when you actually when you just spoke about that scene where the demon kind of finally manifest in the car and she's running and she's paranoid. I think she's again, we're dealing with a movie where and this is often a thing in culture, right? Black women, you know, we were talking about believing black women, black women are believed. But I thought about it the other day

and I was like, honestly, they're rarely even listened to. You know what I'm saying? So I think I hate when people are like, oh, black women are loud and da, da, da. But also we have had to work to take our space and to make our voice heard and to actually get people to listen to

not just our struggles, but our triumphs and our support. You know, like I always remind people there would be no, I have a dream speech if it was not black women who actually organized and put that event together so i think we see a similar thing um in ebony is that she's not i think it's hard she's not being believed and it's a lot of pressure you know it's not you can't it's a lot of weight to hold and sometimes you're gonna to stumble. You know what I mean? And you need help. And I think in that scene in particular, you know,

for me, it was just like, she is not even sure of what she's seeing. So forget society or the social worker, DCS, her mother, you know, forget all of those people believing her.

She's now kind of questioning herself. Am I actually losing my mind? Am I going crazy? That's something that's not. Man, you feel that so much all the time. You're like, am I crazy? Am I doing too much? Am I? Exactly. Am I to fight the power? Am I going crazy? That's something that's not- Man, you feel that so much all the time. You're like, am I crazy? Am I doing too much?

Am I- Exactly. Am I to fight the power today? See what I'm saying? You kidding. I'm not even going there, but you kidding. That's how I was watching the movie, though. I was like, ooh, wow, okay.

I felt that. Right. Am I to- You're constantly questioning yourself, even if it don't have to do with demons. It's just like, am I going crazy? Am I doing too much? Am I insecure? Am I losing my mind?

So I think that she's a human. You know what I mean? She is definitely a human. I'm what I mean? She is definitely human. I'm glad you, you know, we never talked about that. Yeah, but you wrote it in there. There's a lot of things. But you're just telling me this. I'm hearing it for the first time, which is fascinating.

You really understood it. You know what I'm saying? And I didn't do much directing in that scene. Yeah, but- Because you just sort of knew it. And now I understand why you knew it. I'm not going to let him do this. He always give his credit away. Yes, you did. You are always doing amazing directing and a lot of directing. And is amazing yeah but you just did i i remember that there's a scene where she's outside she's like this you know what i mean i'm like what is she why why

she should be doing that yeah but i haven't directed her to do that right but that's the question it's in the writing i think yeah is the constant like am i actually crazy you know what i'm saying and so and i think that's why you know it's like anxiety and I think that's what leads to like addiction right we see her struggling with alcoholism so but she's trying I don't think she's always not doing right I think she genuinely thinks she is doing right and then and she's just she's a human you know I mean she's really trying the thing the scene that we were just describing you know you questioning yourself that is something that black people constantly do, right? Because there's all of these things

that we know are on top of us. We know that we're being oppressed, but then there's other people in society who'll be like, you're bugging. There's no such thing as racism. There's no such thing as sexism. Homophobia, oh, please. Right, exactly.

It's always chalked up to conspiracy or you know what I'm saying? And we're supposed to act like, and honestly, sometime I just wonder in order to survive and not lose your mind, you kind of almost have to sort of be on autopilot for a little bit, you know, because you're right. We do know the food is killing us, right? We do know politics are probably not really actually working for us, but we're required to show up and vote.

Otherwise, we're not doing our civic duty. You know, and of course those things matter. But there's an era of that where we're supposed to act like we don't know that other things are happening above us I'll say above us but I don't like saying that maybe just in the realm of where we at you know so and I think so we see that exemplified in the movie she kind of it's like you feel fractured I think she captured the depression right uh and the out and the addiction, right? You know, as a recovering addict or as an addict. She captured the truth of what it's like to wake up every day and to fight depression and to get up out of bed and not want to do drugs or to drink.

Right. She captured that wholeheartedly with accuracy. I think even better than you did in Billie Holiday. Yeah, it was actually, first of all, when you said that on set, I was like ready to cry. But it was harder. And it was funny because I was questioning myself. People were like, Billie Holiday will be the hardest role

you ever play. I said, okay. Then I got on set, I was like, nigga, that's a lie. I was like, that's just wearing me out right now. And I kind of was like, am I crazy? Or have I just lost it? Am I maybe not that good at this? Because she's closer to us.

Yeah, she's just, she required me to deal with, like you said, when you watched it, the same way playing her, she required me to deal with things in my personal life, to talk to myself about things. And I couldn't, and for my faith to grow and to change. I don't think I could have played her if I did not almost have my own therapy. You know what I mean? Surrounding it. And what do you want people to get out of this movie?

What do you, at the end of this, what do you want them to get out of it? Really, that you have to find your higher power. Yeah. Because tomorrow isn't promised. You have to find, there's no, this is not a joke. Especially after sitting down with Biden's sleepy ass. You know what I mean? So why y'all got mad when I told them to step down? See, this goes back to what I've been saying. I'm going to tell you another thing about this movie. Okay. Let me tell you another I mean this movie this movie shows you that if you don't

deal if you don't acknowledge your demons yes you have to acknowledge them what they reveal themselves you have to acknowledge them. Once they reveal themselves, you have to acknowledge them and that's how you deal with them. What they say, you can't heal what you don't reveal. So when these things reveal themselves to you, you have to deal with them.

So that goes back to Biden. No, I'm going to throw it back to you. The first time I heard somebody talking about depression and something that really hit home was when you were bold enough to sit there and say that we get depressed, that this is real.

And that's when I had a newfound respect for what you do, because it's like nobody, that's me coming out of the closet. You know what I mean? People don't... Yeah, we don't talk about mental health. We don't talk. We can't talk about it. Yeah, exactly.

For sure. Even though we all deal with it. Yeah. For generations. Yeah, for sure. Even though we all deal with it for generations. Like my dad was going to therapy two and three times a week. He was on 10 to 12 different medications and he tried to kill himself back in the day. I didn't find none of this out until 2018 after I started talking about my own issues.

So imagine if he would have opened up to me when I was a child, when I was hiding in the woods because I was having bad panic attacks. Because it's in the closet. And how was he received in the community? Because your father, at the time, going to therapy, that's crazy. I mean, talking to my elders and parents about therapy right now,

it's kind of like, oh, well, you know, we don't really, you know what I'm saying? I never asked him that, you know. And you're from a small town, so everybody had to know. I wonder if he even talked to people about it. I don't know. They didn't talk to him.

Well, you know, when I asked my mom, I said, Mom, you know Dad was going through all this? And my mom's exact words was, I thought he was playing crazy to get a check. Because he ended up saying, she just started giving him a crazy check. That's so bad. Oh, my God.

That sounds like Mama. That's so bad. Oh, my God. I know your mom's a crazy. I love my father. I love him so much. I was talking to him about therapy the other day, and he told me, I was like,

Dad, you can't hold on to everything, right? Because things fester. They sit, they da-da-da. He was like, yeah. He was like, yeah. I was like, so you, no, I want you to just think about therapy. Don't think about it in terms of,

it's not that you're crazy. It's just you check in with your health, right? You get your heart looked at. You get your, so why would you not get your mind looked at if that has direct impact on your heart, on your body? He said, yeah, yeah, well, you know.

I love your father. Nigga, my dad's so, he from Detroit. He really like a nigga from Detroit. He was like, yeah, you know, I've actually learned. He's like, I actually kind of do my own therapy. I've learned, I take it and I put it in this box. And then I like, you know, I basically, I compartmentalize it.

So I tuck it away real deep. I was like, right. I said, but all them little prisoners are gonna build up at a certain point. So he told me, he was like, I I tuck it away real deep I was like right I said but all them little prisoners are gonna build up at a certain point so he told me he was like I just tuck it away

and I was like dad that's suppression I was like that's the opposite of what we talking about I was like you gotta talk about these things

so it's just different the mentality different another conversation I hope this movie opens up to this point we're talking about some people definitely need therapy

but some niggas need an exorcism how many niggas do you know that actually need an exorcism I think many niggas do you know that actually need an exorcism? I think so. I think so. Listen, we working in the same.

I'm sure you got a list. I think also that, because I was thinking about this as I was watching, a lot of church people will say there's too much cursing in this. There's too much violence in this. How can this be a faith-based anything? And then you get into the politics of the church. You can get into the politics of the church and just sort of deal with that bullshit. Or you can deal with spirituality and know that Jesus walked with hookers, drunks.

Yeah. I've already gotten. I've literally gotten. Somebody hit me the other day and was like, hey, you know, I mean, they asked politely, you know what I'm saying? But it was like, hey, I don't understand how you're a believer and would do a movie about demons. And I was just like, I think when I get asked those questions, it's like, okay, take a second, take a beat. You could get offended, right? You know, or you could just be like, there's not understanding here.

There's a lack of understanding. Maybe it's on my part. You know what I'm saying? But I think that it's always interesting to me as a believer. I'm like, I read scripture. You know what I mean? I do devotion everywhere. I read scripture.

I was like, there's demons in the Bible. Like, I don't know what to tell you. There's crazy things. Like, the whole premise is not that this life is clean and perfect and not scary. It's that it's all of those things. We just have somewhere to put it. And as he said, if it's a different faith, you got somewhere to put it you know like so that's really and and and something a why we have a why for how to navigate this craziness you know what i'm saying

so the idea that we're not supposed to touch those things to me is very very weird and and not realistic you know sometimes we use the demon thing to uh avoid the actual issue though right like when the grandma goes to the pastor and tells her she thinks the house has evil energy, it ain't just demons, it's everything else you talk about. It's the trauma, it's the alcohol abuse, it's the addiction. But it's like we'll talk about something supernatural to avoid making better choices. Right. And unresolved issues with her daughter because I think if I'm clear, I don't remember, you

and I talked about this, but if I'm clear, you know, Alberta may have changed. She received the Lord. You know what what I mean she has transformed her life and and that's why when Ebony says to her like you might have your little church friends fool but I don't think we ever hear a moment in there where Alberta goes to Ebony and says hey I'm really sorry for everything I did to you and allowed happened to you it's more like I don't want to talk about that I've transformed now let me just be good to the grandkids and good to everyone else around me. And that's the way it works. Yeah, it's really, but it's hard because sometimes you need, like you said, you're just averting the issue. Sometimes you actually need to look somebody in the face and with humility say, I acknowledge what happened to you, what I did to you, and I'm sorry.

You know what I'm saying? Which was part of my journey with Monique. Yeah, got you. Yes. And you did it first, right? Yeah. I called her out of the blue. You know what I'm saying? Which was part of my journey with Monique. Yeah. Gotcha. Yes. And you did it first, right? Yeah. I called her out of the blue. I wanted her to know. I was working on this.

Y'all see that other horror movie that she did? Yes. So this young filmmaker, I help a lot of young filmmakers. She was so good in that. Okay. So this young filmmaker called me out of the blue and said, listen, I'm working on this movie and I need your help. So I said, okay. So this young filmmaker called me out of the blue and said, listen, I'm working on this movie and I need your help. So I said, okay.

So I saw the potential in the movie. It was incredible. This kid was just incredible. And I worked on the movie for free for six months because it was Monique. She didn't know it. Six months I helped him edit the film because it was a little independent film.

And I was like, this bitch is fucking good. She's fucking real good. That was part of me realizing I had to, she had to work. She just had to continue. People are missing out on her work as an artist. And so finally I said, listen, you don't know this, but I've been working on this movie. I've been working on this movie for like four or five months, six months. She said, you sneaky bitch.

I know. She said, you sneaky bitch. Daddy, come in here and cuss him out, because how he ain't tell me he was working on this movie. And so that was the beginning of my healing through this kid that I was helping with his film. Yeah. And how did you, I wanted to know,

I know you and Dame squashed your beef as well. How did that happen? How did that healing happen? That happened because I was told by my all white team at the time that I didn't owe him any money. And I knew in my heart that if I owed the drug, even though the movie didn't make money, the movie did not make money.

So in theory, on paper, I didn't owe him any money. But I knew in my heart that I told him I was going to pay him his money. So it was a man-to-man thing. But I'm listening now to Hollywood because I did Empire and I was like, okay, this is the way the white people work. This is the way it's supposed to work. No, it don't work like that.

And so even though the movie took a hit, Shadowboxer took a hit, I did the right thing with him too. And how was that conversation when you reached out? It did take a public humiliation for me to understand that I did the right thing. Otherwise, I would have been discouraged. I don't think so. I would have had that come to Jesus. But he put Jesus a little earlier.

He brought you to the altar call. I know y'all got to go in a few, but I want to ask you, Lee, about, you know, because you birthed a lot of people out here, right? Jussie Smollett. what's that relationship like now? Cause I remember a few years ago they said y'all were no longer on speaking terms. I think we text each other. We text each other. He has a movie that's coming out, I think that's coming out.

I haven't seen it yet. Look, it's so complicated guys. It's so complicated. Life is so complicated. Because of the incident? Because of the hoax? Well, life itself is complicated. But that whole situation was complicated.

And I still don't know what to believe. Honestly, I don't know what to believe. People say he didn't do it. He did do it. God bless him on his journey. Is there room for him to come back is what i'm trying to get at and because because somebody like you it takes other black people to to keep that grace in that door open for people other blacks that make mistakes i work with him

again yeah all right i don't work with him again would you cast him in something or yeah i would cast him in something got you he was a son to me, you know, he was like a, and he also represented me. And he also represented the movement that we, that I tried to start, which I didn't even know I was starting. I was so busy, worried about Cookie's hat and the music that we were playing. This was before Insecure.

This was before Black Panther. We started that. It was before Insecure, this was before Black Panther. We started that. It was before all of this. That's a fact. We didn't even know what it was. But I was so worried about the, I was so worried about like getting everything right. It's the phone right here, you know, on the set,

that I didn't know what was happening in the zeitgeist. So yeah, it's complicated. Empire definitely ushered in the new black renaissance in cinema. But yeah, the only reason I ask that is because we see white actors make mistakes and get chance after chance after chance. It's like with our people,

they just get thrown away, discarded, blackballed, never work again. But it takes people like you to make sure that they keep working. Yeah, well, we appreciate you. And the film Deliverance is out on August 30th on Netflix. And thank you for joining us. You guys are invited.

Don't wait so long. I mean, how long has it been? Seven years, probably? It's been a while. I don't do... Next time you can keep your phone on, too. Because you ain't getting me canceled. But it's in theaters right now.

It's in theaters. Today's the first day it's in theaters. It's on Netflix August 30th. Well, thank you guys for joining us, Andrea. I know you'll be here again because you working.

Apparently. I'm on your slate. I'll see y'all for Exhibiting Forgiveness I guess next. That's the next role? It was the next movie that comes out in October.

What's it called? Exhibiting? Exhibiting Forgiveness. What is that? If you don't mind. Yeah, it's actually the painter. Have you heard of

Titus Kaffir? Are you familiar with his work if you really not if you yeah if you yes if you've not seen his work you should definitely he's a painter is actually what he is his work is in the met everything he's from detroit actually um but he very similar he tells truthful stories but he has never done a movie before he just needed apparently painting was just not sufficing he needed a medium to be able to reconcile his relationship with his father who was definitely a victim of sort of the crack epidemic and so reconciling that relationship and and and learning how to forgive and so he just started writing his story down and he wrote a script so this is his debut um uh directorial debut and his first time writing a script. It's called Exhibiting Forgiveness.

It stars Andre Holland, Anjanue Ellis, John Jokes, and myself. And he really beautifully talks about that forgiveness is an amazing concept. Obviously, we've seen it today. We've talked about it so much today. But I think we forget how hard fought forgiveness can really be. It always feels like you're letting someone get away with someone or you get away with something you're making yourself more vulnerable to

more pain but so it really dives into the idea that it strengthens you but it is a hard fought battle so that's October when it comes out. Your life is hilarious. You had one dream that you thought you was just going to sing and you thought you was going to sing and this man passed the court

and was just like okay okay, acting it is. I was like, okay, here we go. She's one of the most phenomenal actors I've ever worked with. And I've worked with all of them. Truly. You're not going to make me cry here. It's the truth. No, I really do love him.

Between him and Miss Tasha Smith, who's also in this. Tasha Smith. Tasha. I love her. She's just a hug of a person. Tasha could have woke Biden up in this group. Tasha Smith! Tasha! I love her! She's just a hug of a person. With one conversation. Okay, here it is. Director, she's director, director, and

incredible, incredible acting coach, and phenomenal actor. She also should be a motivational speaker. She should. What? She'd get you together in a voicemail. She could, when she tells you, this is what cracks me up, this is how she would have got Biden together. She just looked at him and she would have been like,

it's terrible. When we were being coaching sessions and she stopped and she looked at me and she'd be like, I'm like, so I finished doing a little work and I'm looking at her for a response. She looked at me and she's like, sis, it's terrible. I'm like, let me get my little notes together like

she might be top three realest niggas ever my favorite but both of them are the same that's why i was like i know if i'm in a coaching session i'm not getting no bullshit if i'm on set i'm not getting no bullshit when they say cut i'm like we got it like that's a good feeling well we appreciate you for joining us again. Thank you, sir. And today, Lee Daniels, it's The Breakfast Club. Good morning. Wake that ass up. In the morning.

The Breakfast Club.