The Breakfast Club - INTERVIEW: Leon Thomas Talks 'Mutt,' Acting, Music, Working With Drake, Ye, SZA , 'Quiet On Set,' + More

Episode Date: January 9, 2025

The Breakfast Club Sits Down With Leon Thomas To Discuss 'Mutt,' Acting, Music, Working With Drake, Ye, SZA , 'Quiet On Set.' Listen For More!See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

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Follow us on the iHeart radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Wake that ass up. Early in the morning. The Breakfast Club. Morning everybody. It's D, E, J, N, V, Jess, Hilarious, Charlamagne the guy. We are The Breakfast Club. Lauren LaRosa filling in for Jess today.

We got a special guest in the building. Yes indeed. We have the brother Leon Thomas. Welcome, bro. It's good. What's good? Hey, I'm feeling Black and Holly favorite Leon you are by far the greatest new male R&B singer doing it today, man Thank you so much. That's that shouldn't even be up for debate. Yeah, man. I really appreciate that man. How do you receive? Yeah, I mean, you know to be honest, I try to just take it one step at a time. I try to stay humble with everything, but I'm glad to be a new voice in R&B.

It's a genre that I love. I'm trying to bring back live musicianship, real songs, writing with the team that I have has been an amazing pleasure. Just bringing that organic feeling back to the live stage is a big thing for me. One of your biggest fans, who's a producer up here, he put us on to you years ago.

His name is Brandon, but he's actually, this is the funniest thing, he's actually in Africa right now. Being a mutt. Being a mutt. But he's a huge fan of yours. He goes to all your shows and all your concerts, put us on to you early, but he would have

loved to see you here. Man, that's amazing. My question, for people that don't know Leon Thomas, you started on Broadway. Tell everybody how you got your start and your way into being this R&B star. Well, listen, I grew up in New York, started on Broadway out here. I did three Broadway plays from Lion King, The Carolina Chains, The Color Purple. You were Simba in Lion King? Yeah, yeah. I was Simba in Lion King.

And then, you know, I started booking movies and TV shows. Before we slow down, but how was that? I just took my kids to see that. Oh no, it was insane. So how was that training? Cause this is a lot of shows, a lot of people, and it's live, so you can't mess up.

No, no, no, you can't mess up. It's eight shows a week. I was 10 years old when I did my first Broadway play. Shout out to my mom and my family for, you know, supporting me through that whole journey. And yeah, man, I went from being a regular kid to starring on Broadway in a matter of months, you know? Now, how was that?

Because it's not the typical thing New York kids do, right? So you're singing, you're dancing, you're doing that. So how did you get into that part of it? No, because you don't go to Broadway. I don't know anybody that went to Broadway, so it's very? No, because you don't go on Broadway. I don't know anybody that went to Broadway. So it's very different. New York kids that go on Broadway. I don't.

I don't know. I had a couple homies who ended up in different plays. But for the most part, yeah, it was definitely like a bit of an anomaly for my neighborhood in Brooklyn. It was kind of weird explaining it to my homies at school. Like, yeah, I was just doing a show last night. They're like, what? What's going on?

Maybe kids from a certain area. Yeah, yeah, yeah. That's a kid from New York. Oh, from New York for sure. Well, not from New York, from the hoods of New York. Okay. Yeah. All right.

Where? But nah, it was definitely a real pleasure, but from there I ended up doing a lot of TV and film. I shot my first movie out here with Robin Williams and Terrence Howard called August Rush, which was an amazing pleasure and that kind of brought me into a lot of TV after that with Nickelodeon. He was on Victorious.

Victorious, yeah, yeah, yeah, with Ariana Grande and that was a big journey. That was the number one show on the network at the time. We were beating out American Idol and it was a way for the rest of the world to kind of really tap into who I am as a creative. But it took years of really honing in on who I am as an artist to get to this point, producing and writing for a bunch of different artists. Went in a Grammy, working with SZA and Babyface, Drake, a bunch of different people. It's been a real...

You wrote for Drake? I actually produced for Drake, but shout know, shout out to him, man. A lot of people write for Drake, allegedly. Yeah, allegedly, man, but you know, for me... I don't think there's anything wrong with that. I don't think there's anything wrong with it either, but it was a blessing to... I mean, it's interesting, because I'm an artist

and people see me as a singer, they kind of forget that I also produced a lot of big records. You know, my production game is pretty tight, so... You sound like a rap nigga, though. Well, yeah, on purpose. Your lyrics are like that of a rap, but that's why when I see Freddie Gibbs on your records a bit of a butcher, it makes so much sense to me.

Absolutely. Do you still keep in touch with anybody from Victorious? Absolutely, man. You know, I chop it up with Ari, Avon Jogia is a really good friend of mine, you know, Matt Bennett. A lot of the cast, we all hang out and do lunch. It's kind of like my last two years of high school were with them, so that's like my graduating class,

essentially, we were all in school together. So, you know, we filmed, but we also went to school, so those are my really good friends. Sleutha Victoria and her mom, I did a host of the New Year's Eve special with them. Oh, for real? Oh, that's dope, that's dope, yeah. You ever wrote for Ariana?

Yeah, actually, I worked with her on her first album. That was my first time going number one with an album. I did about four songs on her first album, Yours Truly. So that was a real pleasure, yeah. So you've been rich for a minute. I was about to say, how did you know so young in just being like, okay, I can act, I can dance, I can sing, but I can also go produce over here?

Because a lot of people wait to diversify until they're exposed a little bit. I mean, shout out to Jermaine Dupree. He used to have this YouTube series called Living the Life. It was Jermaine Dupree and Brian Michael Cox, and they were always in the studio filming their process. And I saw them being rich black men, also being able to be creative every day.

And I wanted to kind of recreate that lifestyle for myself. Ryan Leslie as well, like seeing a lot of his YouTube videos inspired me to, you know, open up Logic and try to produce myself, you know. Did you know you always wanted to be an R&B singer? Like, was that the goal as a kid growing up? Oh, for sure. You always wanted to be an actor. And when did you pivot?

When he was like, I, this is what I want to do. Listen, I feel like I did this role with Catherine Bigelow. She's an Oscar-winning director. But I had to cut my dreads for it. And that was kind of like my last straw in acting. I did this role for Detroit. And I felt like I need to kind of tap back into who I am as an artist.

And grew my dreads back, really got into my internal self, meditating, really tapping into who I am as a human being. And a lot of great music came out of that. I always knew I wanted to be a singer, but I knew for a fact I needed to really present myself as who I truly was. It's so easy to play a character when you're always acting. I needed to come to the world as my true self.

Now, you are Leon Thomas III. Yeah, yeah. Did the first two Leons have any background in music? Not really, you know, but my grandfather, I didn't get a lot of time with my grandfather, but my dad always told me that he was a real lover of music. And my dad sings, but he's an assistant principal now. But my grandfather, who actually recently just passed,

God bless his soul, John Anthony was an opera singer and was on Broadway in Hello Dolly, and used to be the music director for One Life to Live out here in New York, all of the soap operas back in the day. So, you know, I was definitely surrounded by music just through my mom and her side of the family. Oh, so your mom was the musician. Yeah, my mom's side.

That's for the Black Rock Coalition? Yeah, yeah, yeah. So my mom, Jayon Anthony, she had a club day band in New York. Used to be the house band for the World Trade Center. Played a lot of the big clubs out here. And I just grew up backstage with her and just really hanging out, learning music. So what was the Black Rock Coalition?

So the Black Rock Coalition, there was clubs like CBGBs and a array of different clubs where it was kind of awkward at a certain point in the 1980s where rock was created by us, but there was definitely elements of prejudice within that genre. And all of the Black rock stars decided to come together You know the cast from living color a bunch of them just all came together to really protect each other through through through moments of you know turmoil through through that season of the 80s and

Early 90s and it's just good to have each other's back Especially in a genre where you're not always celebrated When you were on the like the sets, when you like even with like Victorious and stuff like that, what was your mom and like your parents there often? Oh, yeah, my mom, they talked a lot about that, too. Like how your parents were close. No, they were there. They were there. You know, my mom was never like a momager, like over my over my shoulder kind of mom.

But she was also very protective of my peace and mental health and making sure that I'm just in a good space while I'm trying to create something timeless. Shout out to her for always creating safe spaces for me throughout that journey. Probably kept you from getting slimed. Yeah.

Being quiet on set, Doc. Yeah, and I was definitely nuts, definitely nuts seeing how everything with them. Definitely nuts. It was definitely insane. Jesus, how insane. Don't say that, definitely nuts after that. Yeah, I know, I know.

It's crazy, it's crazy, because I just saw the doc not too long ago. It was definitely eye-opening. And a lot of my castmates, we hopped on a zoom call we all wanted to talk about it and I mean luckily during during our seasons it was it was very wholesome and chill but you know shout out to anybody who dealt with anything bad I mean I you know my heart definitely goes out to them. Did you have a childhood growing up like were you able to do things that normal kids did or was

it always I'm on set I'm working? Yeah I Were you able to do things that normal kids did or was it always, I'm on set, I'm working? Yeah, I mean, to be completely real with you, I had a great childhood. My mom made sure that I had a good group of friends. I went to public school up until my last two years of high school. I feel like having that grounded energy was definitely important for even me as a songwriter

and a producer now and an artist. I feel like I come from a very human place. It's not like I tried to detach from who I am organically. The thing I love about your music too is, number one, I can tell you've been, you got a sense of freedom. Yeah. So does that come with money or does that come with just how you came up with your mom doing music

so you always felt free as an artist? Yeah, yeah. I mean, I think the greatest thing about being an artist is that it's a great representation of being a free black man. Being able to wear what I want, say what I want on record is really important to me. I try to stay as grounded and as real to who I am as I can be.

I think it's really easy to want to be an artist and play a character who you think people want you to be. But I'm doing my best to just say what I want, do what I want. When you come up with songs, I like feelings on silent. I love Wale. But songs like that, when I listen to it, each time I get something different from it. So the first time I listened, I was like,

oh, this is like God just being like, we keep our feelings to ourselves. And then the second time I listened, I'm like, this is the trauma that they deal with because like, he mentions PTSD and like a bunch of other things. Like how do you, first of all, sitting back, you wrote that. Yeah, yeah, yeah, I co-wrote that.

Sitting back and writing it with him, how do you be like, okay? Here's all the things that we want people to get when they hear this or do you guys just write and whatever people get they get Like were you dealing with something yourself then or you know? The way I wrote that record was really interesting. I was in I was in Italy actually I was working with yay and Todd dollar sign on the vultures one project and We were at the Medici Estate, which is this really beautiful Four Seasons that they have out there, beautiful garden.

And I'm listening to the instrumental from Conductor walking through the garden and I just had some lyrics kind of bubbling up in my head, went back and we recorded it. But I think it was one of those moments that it was just kind of stream of consciousness. I didn't really think too hard on my sections. That was like my second take that you're hearing. There wasn't like me like kind of really punching in a bunch of different ideas. It was just kind of flowing.

And when Wale heard it, that was probably the hardest verse to get. Cause we did probably- You gonna get him back outside? Cause he- We did like five sessions to get that one verse. But yo, he's so talented and seeing how he crafted his verse, I mean he would do like five bars at a time and he really cared about the poetry of it all.

And it's why I really respect him as an artist. He's just a true lyricist. So it's my guy Wale. You signed the time that I was signing, right? Yeah, I am, yeah. Okay. Yeah, yeah, easy money. And it's in conjunction with Motown Records. And just, you know, between legacy and a new imprint,

I think it's been really cool to kind of break around in R&B right now. It's been a real special thing. I don't feel like Motown Records is doing enough for you. I don't know why Leon Thomas is not in heavy rotation on every radio station across the planet. Whatever that button is that they need to push, it needs to be pushed.

Nah, I appreciate it, man. Well, I feel like opportunities like this are really helpful. I feel like radio stations are definitely looking at platforms like this to say, okay, yeah, we feel comfortable trusting this new name and new face. I've been doing this a long time, but I still look at this as a new artist journey because I really just started taking the artist journey serious these last five years.

So I'm really thankful for the growth. I'm thankful for the wins. And there's people working really hard at those labels with actually a lot of underfunding and collapsing of labels into one. It's just a lot of work. and a lot of people are losing jobs so people are afraid to push that button sometimes. It could be the demise of their entire career. So I really respect the work that they're doing.

I just know that this year is gonna be really special for me, man. I mean, I've been doing a lot of praying and manifesting for just new things. And this was definitely on my bucket list. So I'm just appreciative to be here. Have any program directors or DJs approached you and said hey if you slide me this under the table? Nah, nah. I got a new homie. We gotta congratulate you on your Grammy. We tell everybody that we helped with

that because we played snooze every morning four times a morning. Yeah, 6am. But you wrote snooze. I produced on snooze man., four times a morning. Yeah, we did. Yeah, 6 a.m. Yeah, 6 a.m. But you wrote Snooze. No, I produced on Snooze, man. First of all, let's clear this up. Shout out to SZA for writing that record. We were producing in a separate room and she heard the instrumental and was like, what is

that? And there is something that I do where I take my voice and I chop it up like a sample because clearing samples is really expensive and it cuts into the publishing. So rather than actually doing a sample, I'll just sing a little something, right? So she really liked that and then took it into the other room

and wrote an amazing song. And being a part of the production on that with Babyface, Legendary Babyface, was a true pleasure, man. I mean, it was a real journey to see that song go from like a crowd favorite To a Grammy Award winning R&B song man that that was that was definitely life-changing for me You got a production team right? Yeah, yeah the Rascals me Me and Chris Tynes man. We've been working together since we were like 18

So it's really cool to to see the growth I mean we started off, you know a little shaky when it came to production But it's nice to see us, you know really develop into the producers. I mean, we started off a little shaky when it came to production, but it's nice to see us really develop into the producers we are now. We had great mentors, man. Cool, man. You have such big moments. I thought I was tripping, but you just said these last,

what, like five years is when you feel like things started really moving for you? As an artist, yeah. As an artist, yeah. Because I'm like, I know you outside of being an artist, but you have such big moments even before that and during that. But it's like, I don't know, like when do you feel like things started to click finally

where people were like, oh shoot, Leon, like we get it now. It's really interesting. I like to call it the Drake effect. When I was working with Drake, all of a sudden label executives who have known me for years were like, hey, I think you could be an artist, you know? And I was like, all right, okay. So I kind of peeped that and I said, okay, well, let's just start,

let's start kind of building this out. But I knew I wanted that same formula that Drake had with Lil Wayne and working with Ty Dolla $ign was a really smart move. Not only because he's just an amazing artist, but because it was just nice to have a mentor who had done it already. So he's just like, kind of like, yo, try this,

make sure the look has this. Or, you know, even when it came to the music, like here's how you really format an album. And, you know, I'm definitely doing a lot of studying, you know, shout out to Todd Dallas for sure. He definitely, you know, saw something in me that a lot of label executives were not sure about and it's cool to see it developing in real time.

How did you and Todd Dallas on me? I was actually working on his album as a producer on featuring Todd Dallas on. I was like one of I think nine producers on a song with Kanye and Thundercat and a bunch of other people. Nine producers on one record? Yeah because it's like when it's like.5, like I was just there at a this or that vocal and like some bass or something. And then, but he had everybody play like their unreleased records and I played him some of my first album as like demos.

And Ty was like, yo, you really, you're really tight, you know, as an artist. He was like, man, and he was originally trying to record one of the songs that I had, but I was like, nah, I want you to feature on it. And over the years, we became really good friends. I was working with him a lot and just kind of developed into a whole situation with Sean Barron. Sean Barron is the guy who officially put it all together with Easy Money and Motown.

Is it tough navigating, because people are getting to know you now and everybody's falling in love with your music now? And you have such a close association with Drake, you have to pick and choose where you go musically and what you do musically with who? You know, honestly- She's asking, can you work with Kendrick Lamar if you wanted to? Yeah, yeah, yeah, I know that's what she's asking. I mean, the way I really look at it is just like on a political level. I make R&B, you know, obviously I make hip hop too, but I'm really focused on my artist

journey. So I mean, Kendrick is such a huge artist. I don't really foresee us working together in the near future. And even with Drake, you know, I still want to take my steps to really build on my own two feet as an artist. Right. So I'm doing what I have to do right now to really like grow my own business. Touring is a big thing for me.

I'm really focused on that. I'm hitting the road all this year and working on more records. So, I mean, shout out to everybody, but I'm definitely focused on me. I want to ask you a business question about the production before we get into both of these great albums. But you, when you are part of the Rascals,

if y'all produced but didn't you write, how do y'all, do you get another check for writing? Is that two different checks or? You know, publishing is interesting because you wanna leave room for the artist, but I would definitely ask for more percentages if we were really heavily involved in the writing as well. But it's just an interesting thing.

We try to keep it pretty even on the most part when it comes to production, especially if everybody was in the room from the beginning of the record. What if it's your pin? Is everybody's production with your pin? Right. You gonna break down the production?

You gonna get a slice of the pie? Well, I mean, it's like 50-50. So you have the first 50 is the production side and the way I look at it is Melody and drums, you know and then the second 50 is you know Just the writing side and it's just based off of how much you ended up writing of the song Because a lot of artists are very involved with their storyline and lyrics and hook ideas So I have no problem splitting that 25 there

And then if I got 15 on a production or 25 on the production now, I got 50% of a record Do y'all talk about that while y'all doing it or cuz? Trust me, we've definitely been through some things, you know after the fact people get amnesia, but I think you know, it's it's really easier when you figure that out the day it happens. You know, we used to have split sheets there at the studio, which I thought was a really good practice, but we kind of let go of that. So would you pull out your phone and just in your notes be like, I put this there. Like, how do you keep up?

Because you just in the mode. That's why it's just way easier and I think smarter to just split everything even, you know, if you can. Parties are doing that though? People want to keep what they can get. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I mean some artists with us they are, especially if we're writing and producing a song, you know. Gotcha.

How is it with Kanye though when you do splits and stuff like that? Oh lord. Oh lord. It's a little interesting man, but you know, shout out to him. I feel like that experience was like more so just school for me on a production level. I've never seen anybody be so magical with their imagination He would have these ideas and it was so cool to see Teams of people make that a reality and I think that's what I could take from that

I mean publishing is important, but you know, it's the it's the true life experience From from from seeing a free black man put stuff together was like really tight. How old were you when you realized Vibes Don't Lie? One of my favorite records right now. Thanks man. How old were you when you first realized Vibes Don't Lie? I think that was definitely early 20s. I think LA is filled with facades and people

who are pretending to be something they aren't. People who move from their hometown and create a whole new persona. So I think for me, just really studying folks, especially a lot of the women you deal with out there, it's really important to study their actions and not their words. I love the fact that you are encouraging women to keep their pussy healthy. Yes, I am. Did you ever want to be a gynecologist? No, no, no.

Who's talking about proper pussy health, Lino? No, no, no, no. That wasn be a gynecologist? No, no. No, no, no, no. I wasn't on the list. I just listened, man. Yeah, I just listened, I just listened, man. So they tell you, like, hey, my pussy's not feeling the best today? No, I mean, I just think pH balance is a conversation. You know, I just listened, man.

Smell something. That's what it was. You was very, very specific. You said, uh, she only drink water, she keep that pussy healthy. Yeah. They said on Twitter, you be talking crazy like that, but you sing it so people can't be mad about it. Yeah, they can't really like it.

So you had that conversation in real life with your, like, not your homegirl. You're sure? No, honestly, you know what? I'm just big on shock value. I think songs, especially R&B songs, have gotten a bit, not boring, but I think we've kind of already hit the golden era of R&B. So I'm just finding new ways to make people's ears perk up and their minds move. I think social media and podcasts are really interesting to me. These phone mics bring out so many conversations. And

I think as an R&B artist, I want wanna find ways to let that live on the record. And it doesn't always have to be verbatim of what I'm going through in real life. I think it's important to create the drama. I kinda see music as script and a score. So sometimes the records are just really good dramatizations of what I'm seeing in the world. You've been counting some unhealthy vaginas, don't lie.

I was gonna say, so you never had that conversation. I mean, I'm seeing. You've been counted some unhealthy vaginas. Don't say so. You never think everybody. Yeah. But like, how, but like, what, how does that go for you? Like now? I mean, I don't think, I don't think it's really expecting you to be like, all right, here's the check. Like, how do you, cause you got the songs.

Like, yeah, yeah, you know, I definitely got the songs, but I think it's just important to be honest with your partner, you know, communicate, but, but I think it's, it's a, it's a pretty interesting conversation. I try to stay out of it. If I don't have to, you know what communicate. But I think it's a pretty interesting conversation I try to stay out of if I don't have to, you know what I'm saying? You ever did the ear wax test? No, I don't even know what that is, man. You putting me on right now, what's an ear wax test?

Dig in your ear a little bit, there's a little wax on it, put a little pinky, put the pinky inside her. Hold on, what is that? If she jump, she got something. What? That's right, pussy ain't as healthy as it should be. Leon, if you listen to him, you're catching disease.

Yo, that's insane. Maybe you should do it on your toes. I don't know where he got that from. First off, anybody who's like, you do that is nuts. That's so South Carolina, back roads, thing that they do, I do not try that. No, that's wild. Ginger ale works, that doesn't.

Ginger ale? Your mom never told you, you got stomach ache, go drink ginger ale? We ain't talking about stomach aches, we talking about penis balance. I'm just saying, that people think ginger ale cure everything, not earwax. Don't listen to him. Yo, this is the last thing I thought you told me about. I had never heard that.

Put ginger ale on your vagina? That's why you said it. Everybody on the set wrote, y'all never heard that. That's why you sing that. I don't know how y'all feel about it. Crazy. My grandma used to be like, go get some ginger ale and lay down. Wow.

About everything. Yeah. Nah, nah,, go get some ginger ale and lay down. Wow, why? About everything. Yeah, nah, nah, nah. We love ginger ale around here. One thing I don't respect is what you did on How Fast, though. Oh, what's up, what's up? Oh, the Honda. You shit on people in Hondas. No, no, no.

Why? What's wrong with Hondas? One of the most reliable car brands ever. I love a good Honda. My dad has a Honda. I love Hondas. Here's the deal. It was a quick bar, you know, I was just in the booth whiling. I

Don't really have a problem with it. I think it was just more so I was just flowing, you know And and I'm I'm big on not doing too many edits. I like like when I when I record a record It's like what's coming to my mind on the first or second take is what's it's gonna be there You know, and I like to stand on my my you know first mind It was more so just talking about the competition being slower than I am because I'm moving at such a fast pace You know the metaphor was about that. It had nothing to do with Honda What was your first car? But Honda, you know compared to a Lamborghini is pretty you know pretty slow No, but yeah, is it? No, no it is

But Civics are more reliable Civics will stick with you like herpes bro. They'll beat you forever Yeah, what was your first car? My first car was a Benz CLK 500. God damn. He's been getting money for, we just talked about his career. I was like, I'm the court. You gonna be saying, Ultima?

Like, he, yeah. Nah, nah, nah, that was my first one, yeah. Did your therapist really tell you that you're too detached? Or is that something you tell women so you don't commit? Nah, I think, you know, that bar for me, I have a co-writer, Bzzy Kruk, and he lives in Miami, great rapper. That was a bar that came from him.

He's very deep into therapy, but I'm glad that we talked about it on record because, I mean, it's something that I definitely did try out over the pandemic, and it's something that I actually really respect you a lot for a champion, you know? Thank you, brother. But yeah, that was a bar from B Bizzy, but I thought it was important to add in there, you know? Don't try to blame Bizzy now. Nah, I mean, yo that's my co-writer, you know, shout out to him, you know what I'm saying? Like we write a lot of our songs together and I really respect a lot of the perspectives he brings to a lot of my poignant records, you know, he has some great bars.

When I listen to Dancing with the Demons, do you ever get like Miguel references sometimes? Absolutely. Yeah, because I was listening and I'm like, oh my gosh. I wonder if that, are y'all, do you know him? Yeah, yeah, that's like my big bro. We actually did a movie together. He was in Detroit, the one I had to cut my hair for. He was an amazing mentor for me for some years. You know, that bridge between... Hey, it's Nikki Glaser. I'm not here to roast you. I'm here to

overshare everything that went down at the Golden Globes last Sunday. Everyone is already talking about what happened on air at the Golden Globes, but you are going to hear about what happened off air from the horse's mouth. Yes, I'm the horse. Me, Nikki Glaser. Join me on my podcast, the Nikki Glaser podcast, where I will be telling you all the details. I can finally relax with my besties, my listeners and dish what happened backstage. What went down, the things people are already talking about, the things that people should be talking about. I've got it all from what it took to prep for the Golden Globes, the behind the scenes of the Golden Globes, what went down in the rehearsals, who said what at the after party, who I saw at the after party,

who was dancing with who. I'm going to spill it all. Secrets will be revealed. You do not want to miss this episode. Listen to the Nikki Glaser podcast on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Inside you, two worlds are locked in battle. One thrives on fear and anger and doubt. The other, courage, wisdom, and love. Every decision, every moment feeds one of them. Which wolf are you feeding? I'm Eric Zimmer, host of The One You Feed.

I've been there, homeless, addicted, and lost. I know the power of small choices to turn your life around. On this podcast, I sit down with thinkers, leaders, and survivors to uncover what it takes to feed the good wolf. This podcast saved me. It's like having a guide for the hardest parts of life. The wolves are hungry. What will you feed them?

Listen to the one you feed on the iHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Hey, y'all, I'm Dr. Joy Harden Bradford, host of Therapy for Black Girls. And I'm thrilled to invite you to our January Jumpstart Series for the third year running. All January, I'll be joined by inspiring guests who will help you kickstart your personal growth

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So when I think about beauty, it's so emotional because it starts to go back into the archives of who we were, how we want to see ourselves, and who we know ourselves to be and who we can be. So a little bit of past, present and future, all in one idea, soothing something from the past. And it doesn't have to be always an insecurity. It can be something that you love. All to help you start 2025 feeling empowered and ready.

Listen to Therapy for Black Girls starting on January 1st on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts or wherever you get your podcasts. Hi, I'm Ed Zitron, host of the Better Offline podcast. And this January, we're going on the road to beautiful Las Vegas, Nevada to cover the Consumer Electronics Show, Tech's biggest conference. Better Offline's CES coverage won't be the usual rundown of the hottest gadgets or the biggest trends, but an unvarnished look at what the tech industry plans to sell or do to you in 2025,

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I'm Jason Alexander. And I'm Peter Tilden. And together on the Really No Lily podcast, our mission is to get the true answers to life's baffling questions like why they refuse to make the bathroom door go all the way to the floor. We got the answer. Will space junk block your cell signal? The astronaut who almost drowned during a spacewalk

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R&B and rock and roll he's traveled across that bridge many a time I definitely look up to him when it comes to that and you know for me because I play multiple instruments You know, I definitely try to just embody a lot of that energy, but I think we both have the same influences as well. I agree with Lauren on that. Miguel, to me, before you was the last great R&B, male R&B singer.

To me, I'm just talking about the new guys. I'm not talking about the OG legends. I'm talking about, he was the last one to me. And I felt the same way when I heard Dancing with the Demons. I feel like you're talking to yourself on that record. I am, I am. You can't seem to save yourself?

I was microdosing on shrooms for a lot of those Batcha records. And it's like a very interesting thing because it connects your neural pathways in a certain way and you kind of start looking inward a lot more and you know that record was was definitely like an internal conversation just on wax. You said you can't seem to save yourself or never learn to ask for help. Mm-hmm. Going out all night searching for a feeling. Mm-hmm. So what have you

learned to ask for help? It's a what I thought because I took it as like it wasn't talking about a woman at some point. Well, I mean, it's interesting for me. Like that record, when I wrote it, I wrote it in two different days. The first day I was, you know, microdosing on shrooms. So it was a bit of a haze. The next day I listened to it and I was like,

man, this is really poignant stuff. I mean, it's just really talking about being up all night and searching for a feeling and it's trying to fill voids. I feel like, as you know, when you're in your single journey, you can try to fill a void with a stranger, and that's not always very healthy. But it's fun. It could be fun.

It could be fun, for sure. And then, especially when you're in the limelight, the second verse is more so talking about being in the limelight and trying to fill a voice. Nobody really talks about the darkness that comes with the flashing lights. And yeah, that record was very deep and very personal for me.

I'm glad that people resonate with it. You said never learn to ask for help. Yeah. Well, I mean, I think it's really interesting because one of the experiences I had with therapy was I was with a therapist and I'm talking about all this deep stuff in my life and trying to unpack things.

And at the end of it, he's like, have you ever been to a basketball game courtside? What's that like? And he just started asking all this stuff about being famous essentially. And I don't know, it was just like an awkward moment for me, a place where I thought I could be safe. In that one instance, since then I've found

a really good therapist, but in that moment, it was definitely one of those things where it was like, damn, it's hard to ask for help, because even when you ask for it, sometimes you don't get the right kind. I think when you're a black man, especially a black man in your position, it's hard to find culturally competent therapists.

Because there's a lot of things that you're going to deal with that you're going to want somebody to understand. Right, yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah, absolutely, man. But, you know, shout out to the great therapists out there. You know, it's definitely an amazing journey that I'm trying to dig back into a lot more

as I continue to grow as a human being. Now you talk about microdosing on shrooms. Where does that put your mind and do you always do that to produce and write? Nah, nah. I mean I think for this album it was an interesting opportunity to kind of unplug. I mean I wasn't doing as many shows around that time too so it was really helpful to kind of just get into my own head and try to figure out who I am. I definitely did a lot of manifesting, a lot of just writing down who I wanted to be as a human being around that time, a lot of journaling.

And looking back at that season in my life, it was a journey for me to evolve into who I am right now. I wouldn't suggest people just go super crazy on shrooms or anything, but I think micro dosing You know a small amount could be healthy if you're trying to just find yourself, you know And at that time I was trying to find myself, you know, yeah micro dose Yeah, yeah, it don't really do nothing for me though. Just make me it feels like everything is an HD, right? Yeah, yeah, but I mean if you got real things that you're trying to deal with internally I think it can you know put that in HD. Right, yeah, yeah. But I mean, if you got real things that you're trying to deal with internally,

I think it can put that in HD as well. Ayahuasca. Yeah, and I see that, I mean, I feel like I need to go down and live some more life before I really hit that Will Smith journey. He always talks about Ayahuasca and stuff, but. You only do it when it calls you. Yeah, exactly.

And like, for me, it was calling me for like six, I'd say about six years, seven years it was calling me. I did it for the first time last year. Oh, wow, wow, wow. How was that for you? Incredible. I did a three day journey. Man, man.

Yeah, yeah, my boy, his dad runs like a whole situation in I think Mexico or something for like Ayahuasca and stuff. So I don't know, man, maybe one day. You said you were trying to find yourself. Did you find yourself? Yeah, but I mean, I feel like that's a constant journey. That's like the whole partca and stuff. So I don't know, maybe one day. You said you were trying to find yourself. Did you find yourself? Yeah, but I mean, I feel like that's a constant journey. That's like the whole part of finding yourself. You realize it never stops because we're always evolving.

You know, but it's great that I was able to do it through music, that that was like a version of musical therapy for me. And I'm glad that people are resonating with it, you know. I love how you're normalizing dogs on, not, I'm not a dog anymore. There is a young, unhealed version of me that would have really appreciated

that new record. Because you make it sound so fun. And it's almost like women are just going to bring you in like, oh, come in you stray dog. Let me domesticate you. Nah, I mean I was really just documenting what I saw. But nah, nah nah nah

It's definitely part to me post It's definitely part to me post Nah nah nah It was definitely part to me post uh You know post breakup where I just had to figure it out But I think that's all a part of living You know This was a post breakup like album

Yeah, this was a post breakup album So This was a post breakup album. So this is me documenting, finding myself. First off, you're kind of broken after that and then you gotta put the pieces back together. Her fault, yes. No, it's not her fault, I mean it's our fault. Listen, Leon, it's her fault that you ended up being a dog, you went through your whole phase.

It's her fault. I bet. But wait, so when you did Electric Dust, you said that you were happily single during that project too? Yeah, so- So then you got into a relationship after that? Here's the deal. When I was making Mutt,

when I was making Mutt, it was at the same time that I had released Electric Dust. Like I started Mutt at the exact same time that I was releasing Electric Dust. So we were at our tail end when I was doing HoweFast of our relationship. And then everything after that was breakup. So the first record was like the only season

where we were still together. And then like after that was me just kinda, you know, combing through my brain, trying to figure things out. Nights in LA, whiling out, you know what I'm saying? But I think it all turned into great music. So I'm glad I'm here to tell the story. Did a woman ever tell you that for real?

Like, take your time. Don't you rush. And you like, I know I'm a dog. Well, I mean, I don't know. I think that's an interesting bar, because yeah, yeah, it was definitely a time. Take your time. Slow down, baby.

Yeah. I think everybody should go through their whole phases, men and women. Like you should go through that phase where you get to just be free and be who you are, and explore, and lay down with who you wanna lay down with. Scared of that whole phase with brothers, man. It's nasty, I see so much going on.

Like you're super famous. Everything about you is super recognizable, so how do you like, I don't know if you out the whole phase yet or not, but. Yeah, yeah, yeah. How do you avoid the bullshit? How did you, because we ain't hear about you, you didn't hit the same spot. Yeah, yeah.

No, I mean I think it's just important to really stay focused on being grounded and nice to people and communicate, you know. That was the biggest thing. But I'm definitely in a journey of, you know, trying to find my person right now. I know that may sound corny to certain people, but I think for me, I've seen so many examples of huge artists, very rich people who don't necessarily have love and a support system around them outside of their family.

And I wanna build that for myself in my 30s. I'm 31 right now, so I'm looking forward to having that at the end of it all. You got about five more years. Yeah, yeah. But I'm trying to figure it out. When you find that person. yeah. But I mean, you know, when you find that person. When I find the right person, I'm locking that down. It's gonna be hard for you to find that right person

because of who you are. You know what I'm saying? Like, I've known my woman for 26 years. I've never been with this woman for what? 30. 30 years. You know what I mean? So it's gonna be hard for you just because you are Leon Thomas.

You don't even know if girls like you for you, for real. Yeah, yeah. I don't even know if girls like you for you for real. Yeah, yeah. I don't know, I'll figure it out. Mm-hmm. Yeah. I think it's very commendable too that on the song, Safe Place, you let the person you're dealing with know this isn't a safe place.

Yeah, yeah. What inspired that? I mean, I think knowing that I wasn't necessarily ready to settle down, I think that conversation definitely came up a lot during, I guess you would call it my whole face, just understanding like, yo, I'm not ready to settle down. I think that conversation definitely came up a lot during, I guess you would call it my whole face, just understanding like, yo, I'm not trying to settle down. This is a fun place.

This is a time period where I'm just figuring me out. Work is crazy, it's hectic. And I think having that conversation was important to, like you said, just avoid people not understanding what it was at the time. How does that feel, Lauren? Like, when you're a woman and a guy comes to you and a guy says, I'm a dog, I'm a mutter, a guy says, look, baby, we can kick it, but this ain't the same place.

I think it depends on the type of woman you are. Well, you know, she's that person. She's the one that tells them. First of all. No, is that right? She's a mutter. No, that's not. First of all, don't.

Hear the way they tell her they're cool. Don't listen to them. Don't listen to them. Don't listen to them. No, I think. We lying? You are lying. I think that you can appreciate honesty, but I also think that the honesty is unrealistic

on both sides because eventually, if you're spending enough time together, regardless of what space it's not, you kind of get in a habit, even if you're not attached. Of lying? No, not of lying, but like, of wanting to be with that person. So that it becomes consistent.

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Then emotions and feelings come that you both said in the beginning weren it becomes consistent. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Then emotions and feelings come that you both said in the beginning weren't gonna happen. So it doesn't work out. The safe space becomes, it's exploding now. Everybody's all over the place, emotions. That's something I didn't really identify in the song, but yeah, she's... That was what I...

You were that honest in person though, cause you're honest in music. But it's difficult to be face to face with somebody and be like, they say the same place, same. It's very difficult. It's difficult to be face to face with somebody and be like, this ain't the same place, man. It's very difficult. It's very difficult. But I try my, you know, I really try my best to be as honest as I can, you know. But yeah, those are hard conversations, man. You know, I can't sit here and say I've always done it right

or I'm perfect or anything, but I try. I try to be like real, you know. I try to explain myself, but even when you explain yourself, sometimes wires get crossed, you know. So unpacking it and communicating, you and communicating is an important thing later on. Yeah, and don't no woman want to hear that shit after she just let you hit rock? Yeah, it's nuts. Has a woman ever said that to you when you were trying to create like, all right, maybe

this is a thing? And she's like, yo, I like you, but I don't want to do that to you. Yeah, actually, yeah, yeah. In my early 20s, I was talking to this amazing artist. And yeah, she was just like, listen, baby, this ain't a safe place kind of thing. Anybody mean no now? She was like, nah, nah, nah.

I don't think you guys know her now. You tear it up a little bit. No, no, no. It was all good for me. You laughing the fog in the face. You're saying it's all fogging up. I ain't going to lie. Nah.

You tear it up a little bit. But yeah, yeah, you know, it was definitely, you know, it was definitely a realization for me. I was like, oh, it can happen on that side too. I was like 20, maybe 21, you know. You crying in the car. Yeah, yeah, so I was like real young and kind of, you know, green, like, oh, okay, all right, back, cool.

So you all looking for a relationship now? If the right person. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. I'm definitely in that mode right now. Are you dating, would you date other artists, celebrities, or how does that work? Are you doing that right now? It's just hectic. I mean, you're kind of inviting the media into your life,

like the one safe place you have. But, I mean, who knows? If I really catch a vibe with somebody who happens to be fan, I mean, I don't really care about that side of things. I've been in the game a long time. I've met some beautiful women who are amazing artists, but it's just about the human being, you know?

And it can be tough to really build something if both of your schedules are super hectic. So I don't know. Even that's difficult, though, because you could be dating a female artist who might be using you for your pen, who might be using you for your production. You never know. You never know.

But, I mean, regardless, I feel like there's... It doesn't matter. There's always an ebb and flow of, regardless, I feel like there's, it doesn't matter. There's always an ebb and flow of like people using you for something. You know, it's a give and take no matter how you really look at it. I think it's just important to at least be with somebody who genuinely cares and unpacking enough to get behind the facade that is the first six month filter, I like to call it, when people are acting all upright and righteous you know after those six months you can really usually unpack and find like a good idea of who that person is.

So what does a safe place look like for Leon Thomas? A safe place you know for me is being able to be honest with that person and I'm goofy in real life you know so I want to have fun. You know life can be kind of serious so I like my partner to be able to have a good time life, you know, so I want to have fun. You know, life can be kind of serious. So I like my partner to be able to have a good time with me, you know, watch movies, go kick it, run around, you know, like be a big kid with me. You also, you had an interesting line in the song in Safe Place where you say, you put that on your trauma.

And like trauma is something that we're all trying to heal from, but you said it like it was like a badge of honor almost. Like you put that on my mom, on the homies, whatever. Why do you put that on the trauma? Like what does that mean? I mean, I think it all kind of plays into the reasoning for why it's not a safe place. You know, but it was a bit of a badge of honor in that record, for sure, for sure, because I think

we should be able to wear our traumas in a way of being survivors of epic things and being able to move past that and evolve from that. Well, Leslie, you wanna get into a join off down? I don't wanna ask him a question too about another record on Farfetch'd. Yeah. You said, cause we was having a big conversation this week about tricking,

cause you know, Skip Bayless allegedly offered somebody 1.5 million. And you say he paid for my mistakes in Benz's and Diamond's 250 fronted, like you was my artist, 5G's just across the Atlantic. We sat in silence for almost two hours. Yeah. That's a horrible vacation. A quarter million dollars. Yeah.

Benz's and Diamond's? Well, listen, when I wrote that record, it was not for me. That was not a joint that I was originally going to use for me. It was for somebody really famous and really rich, but I just love the way it sounded. And I was like, well, you know what? I love to speak in a world where I can actually afford that. Why not? Let's manifest that. Don't you feel as an R&B artist though when you write records for other people but then

you sing them yourself you're setting an expectation that's not real for you? Because if I'm sitting here I'm just like, damn. It's art, baby. It's art. You know? Like, I mean, I look at artists like Black Sabbath. Ozzy Osbourne really wasn't eating bats. But it's so funny because like in like in in well accidentally but but but um the whole thing is is that in rock and roll and pop they get to live in these fantasy worlds but it's so interesting in R&B and hip-hop it's it's like so has to be so real and it's like nah I think it's important for us to be able to imagine and dream and create worlds that

don't exist sometimes. Because I think that won't stifle new artists from continuing to do the same thing. Dream up the biggest thing. Drake even said in some of his bars back in the day, he was talking about Rolls Royces and Bentley's and shit, he just didn't have at the time. So it's essentially me doing the same thing. And I always speak, you know, future, future focused, you know, abundance mindset, you know,

I'm trying to build a world where, you know, I can definitely, definitely afford that. So why not? Oh, so you would trick, you would give a girl $200,000. You know what? That's not how I be spending my money, Charlamagne, but just the fact that I could afford it, you know,

let's go. And Lucid Dreams, you know? Let's go. In Lucid Dreams, you talk about just significant other leaving things behind. Yeah, that was a fun record with Masego. After a breakup. Why do you think that topic is taboo? I don't really consider it taboo necessarily, but I think it's just funny,

because for me, I was living with my ex for a couple years, so she just had a closet filled with clothes at my crib. And it had been a year and a half since we were broken up. So we were in the studio talking about different things. The guitarist and producer on that song, Freaky Rob, his girl left a flat screen at the house that he had to use to watch Netflix. He was like, man, when is she going to take this flat screen at the house that he had to use to watch Netflix. He was like, man, when is she gonna take this flat screen?

And, you know, Masego also had a similar situation like that at his crib with the couch. So we were all just kinda using all of our different experiences, putting it into a song, and you know, just locking it in. It's different when it's closed. Yeah, did you clear, you cleared out the closet. Yeah, definitely cleared out the, yeah, yeah,

cleared out the closet. Did you move out of the apartment, or you just cleared out the closet? Nah, I'm still at the crib Did you move out of the apartment or you just cleared out the closet? Nah, I'm still at the crib. You know what I mean? Still at the crib. You know, there's definitely a certain interior design choices I'm going to switch up soon. This is like real recent.

Yeah, yeah, yeah. You think these labels know how to market R&B nowadays? Especially male R&B? I think it's kind of interesting because we used to have 106 and Park, we used to have a different perspective on R&B and I feel like the fantasy could be alive in a different way. A lot of the music is driven by culture recently, which I think is dope, but R&B is definitely a place of fantasy, you know, Jodeci in the desert and leather.

It's like a very ethereal place sometimes when you really look at it. So I think it's really tough for labels to find that balance, and especially because most R&B artists are really inspired by alternative music. So you know, you got your babies of SZA and of, you know, Brand and Miguel even, and it's kind of hard. It's not the same thing they used to have to market and even, and it's kind of hard. It's not the same thing they used to have to market and a lot of the same executives. Those don't give people too much options, right?

Because if you think about it before, the label gave people what they wanted to hear. Oh, for sure. But now it's like you put out an album and it's almost like they wait to see what song connects first. Exactly. Or Mutt connects, so we gonna go with Mutt.

Right. You know, Dance With Demons connects. So I think it give people too much of an option and allow people to pick their own song. Even when they connect, they still don't know what the hell to do with it. Yeah, I mean, it's tough, it's tough, man. It's tough.

I definitely don't envy their seat right now, trying to figure out how to navigate through nine different platforms, social media, a TikTok that's about to go away in a couple months. Frank McCourt's gonna buy it. You think so? Frank McCourt's gonna buy it. I bet, but regardless, the shit's fucking nuts.

Everybody's trying to figure it out. It's really hard to deal with. So yeah, and it don't feel like it's a separation either. Because if I look at Leon Thomas, he looks like a rapper kind of. You know what I mean? There used to be a look to R&B singers. But your aesthetic is fashion,

your shows are the lighting. I don't know if you do that on purposeB singers. But your aesthetic is like fashion, your shows, or like the lighting. I don't know if you do that on purpose, but like the light shoes and stuff like that, it all gives like a artsy, creative, like hipster vibe. But like, yeah. I'm just doing what I want. No sexy, flexy, no. I mean, I'm doing what I want, man.

You know, I'm really just, I'm really just rocking. You know, I mean, I think for those of us out there in the R&B world who wanna have, you know, the six pack and do the gyrating and the baby oilrate and the baby oil and shit, do your thing, baby. Whoa. But no, but what I'm saying is that the whole vibe of it is a, that's its own thing. I think what I'm creating creatively is my own world.

And it's rooted in rock and roll. It's rooted in doing what I want to do. You know? And I'm glad I have the creative control to go there. You know? That's the beauty of R&B artists though, because there's so many R&B artists that are just ugly. But their music is so good that women love them.

Oh, you mean like actually ugly, not just like ugly people. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Like Cosmetically Challenged. Cosmetically Challenged. I'm just talking about that, but they get on stage and they do the flexing and the singing and the women lose their freaking minds. Right, right, right, right, right, right.

But you know. He's not calling you ugly, bro. Yeah, I was about to say, I'm like, hold on. You know, that's the beauty of it because there's so many ugly arms out there. Yeah, not at all, for sure though. Okay, that's not my place to say. Yeah, not for real, for real.

Lauren, is he ugly? No, he's not bad. All right, thank you, thank you, Lauren. Can we get into a song of that? What you wanna hear? That would be amazing. You played mutt this Lauren is the ugly. All right. Thank you. Thank you. Can we get into a song of that? What you want to be amazing? What you want to hear right now? Let's play Yes, it is. That would be really cool. Well, let's get into it right now. Yes, it is. The album is out right now. Make sure you pick it up. And we appreciate you for joining us. Thank you so much for having me, man. It's a big opportunity. Thank you so much. It's Leon Thomas. The album is out now and it's the Breakfast Club. Good morning.

Wake that ass up in the it's The Breakfast Club, good morning. Wake that ass up. Early in the morning. The Breakfast Club. Hey, it's Nikki Glaser. So I hosted the Golden Globes at Hollywood's biggest party. Honestly, you've probably seen all the headlines this week, but like any good party, there's a lot of wild stuff that goes down behind the scenes that you don't know about.

And since I hosted the Golden Globes, I'm letting my podcast listeners, my besties, Good Party, there's a lot of wild stuff that goes down behind the scenes that you don't know about. And since I hosted the Golden Globes, I'm letting my podcast listeners, my besties, in on all the behind the scenes tea. Stuff that didn't make it to the live TV taping, what went down in rehearsals, who said what at the after party. You're going to hear it all. Listen to the Nikki Glaser podcast on the iHeartRadio app, Apple podcast, or wherever you get your podcasts.

Do you want a shortcut to the best version of you? Here it is. Feed the Good Wolf. I'm Eric Zimmer, host of The One You Feed. Every week, I talk to brilliant minds and brave souls about the art of small, powerful choices. Our listeners say it all. This is a lifeline. Transformational.

The best antidote to a bad mood I've ever heard. Join the pack and start feeding your best self. Listen to the one you feed on the iHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Hi, I'm Ed Zitron, host of the Better Offline podcast. And this January, we're going to go on the road to beautiful Las Vegas, Nevada, to cover the Consumer Electronics Show, tech's biggest conference. Better Offline CES coverage won't be the usual rundown of the hottest gadgets or biggest trends, but an unvarnished look at what the tech industry plans to sell or do to you in

2025. I'll be joined by David Roth at Defecta and the writer Edward Ongweiso Jr. with guest Hey y'all, I'm Dr. Joy Harden Bradford, host of Therapy for Black Girls. This January, join me for our third annual January Jumpstart Series. Starting January 1st, we'll have inspiring conversations to give you a hand in kickstarting your personal growth. If you've been holding back or playing small, this is your all-access pass to step fully into the possibilities of the new year. Listen to Therapy for black girls starting on January 1st on the iHeart radio app, Apple podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

I'm Jason Alexander and I'm Peter Tilden. And together our mission on the really no really podcast is to get the true answers to life's baffling questions like why the bathroom door doesn't go all the way to the floor What's in the museum of failure and does your dog truly love you? We have the answer go to really no really calm and register to win $500 a guest spot on our podcast or a limited edition sign Jason bobblehead the really no really podcast follow us on the I heart radio App Apple podcasts or wherever you get your podcast