The Breakfast Club - INTERVIEW: Little Brother Speaks On Early Beginnings, 9th Wonder, Documentary + More

Episode Date: February 8, 2024

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apple podcast or wherever you get your podcast wake that ass up in the morning the breakfast club morning everybody it's dj envy just hilarious charlamagne the guy we are the breakfast club we got some special guests in the building yes indeed we got little brother here absolutely big pool how y'all brothers feeling man good man we alive that's all you can ask for nowadays thankful thankful they got the new documentary made a lord watch the little brother's story why that title um i mean first it we started this when we were making the album made a lord watch the little brother story why that title um i mean first it we started this when we were making the album made a little watch 2018 2018 so this was kind of like to bring into that era um and it just made sense yeah it just really made sense like thinking about

everything that we kind of went through and survived the lord had to be watching over us there was no other fucking explanation i mean so uh nah man that was just kind of felt just felt like a conclusion of that chapter and um yeah five years in the making man so it's out now on youtube well let's let's start from the beginning for people that don't know who little brother is and how y'all got together and how you met uh which is pretty dope you you brothers met at hbcu absolutely north carolina central university uh shout out eagle pride this is durham north carolina which is pretty dope. You brothers met at HBCU. Absolutely. North Carolina Central University. Shout out Eagle Pride. This is Durham, North Carolina. I was 19.

Well, I came in 97. I came in 98. Yeah, we met in 98. In 98, that's where we met. Are you from originally Virginia? I'm from Virginia. Supposed to go to Old Dominion. Supposed to go to Old Dominion.

My wife went to Old Dominion. She graduated from Old Dominion. That's how I know. I still got my ID. You still got your ID? From when I went to uh orientation i still got the id okay you want to tell your mama though why you why you waited till the day before she exaggerated fam it wasn't the day before it was a week before

still uh nah i mean that was that was my first big decision as you know an 18 year old was um was making that decision. And, I mean, gee, let me make the decision for myself. But it's still my mom. You know what I mean? Like, I don't cuss in front of my mama to this day. I mean, but still, it's one of the things, like, I have a healthy fear of my mom. I like that.

I never heard of healthy fear. It's a healthy fear. My mom got Napoleon Complex, fam. Does she not like HBCUs? It wasn't the HBCU thing. It was the, I was going to be living with my uncle, so her brother. So she knew, like, yo, you good.

You down there with family. None of us had been to Durham, North Carolina. None of us had heard of North Carolina Central. So for her, it was just a shock. Like, what? What? Where you going? I thought you was going to be, you know, where I had a hand on you. So she went to. That was her mom.

No, my mom didn't go to college. She went to. She went to nursing school. Okay. Go to college. But so, yeah. So it was just one of the things where it happened. I literally got in Central.

It happened in like a week. You know what I'm saying? Like the whole process from asking to do you want to go to me doing paperwork and it happened in like a week so it was just moving and i was like oh shit i'm in there i'm going okay now i gotta tell my mom i would think she'd be happy yeah she she was happy that's the thing like she was happy for me but it was just a thing of this isn't where i we thought you were gonna plan i mean this wasn't a plan i had this is

this is your plan now now i think it was the realization of it goes from my plan for you to your plan for you god you don't have that control anymore and and i'm her you know i'm her youngest son so it was just one of those things like shit i, I got to let go now. And so that's what it was. So you got to college and you guys met each other. So talk about that process, how you guys met. I know a lot of this is actually in the documentary. But how you guys met and what attracted you guys together. And then you started this rap group that became Underground Legends.

Man, it was very organic. I met Pooh. Well, first I met 9th. We met poo well first i met uh ninth we met uh i think i met we met first 98 i don't know yeah we met 98 yeah um so yeah we met uh through a mutual friend uh ninth was on campus and he was uh we was moving in the dorm like we saw each other in the dorm and uh over source magazine we started chopping up uh all this is in the doc but long story short we basically just kind of started you know working together this was at a time when you know it was at the time this is like 98 so this is when no limit is like killing everything

in the south especially up yeah so hbcu no limit at like the ghetto d album drop my freshman year that was all you heard in every room. We was bumping that shit nonstop. Nobody made crack like this. Listen, what? Man, we ran Ghetto Dope. Everybody was pumping that. If you were a kid that was into

rockers or soundbombing, meeting someone else that was into that, that was kind of rare. When you met somebody that was on that same wavelength it's like oh shit i found my people so we just kind of linked up and just started making records and when people are out there when he said ruckus ruckus record you got to tell him because somebody got his records yeah because this was the label that you know uh i would say miracle miracle spiritual very critical criminal umbilical that type of thing he can't help it they said ruckus somebody might not know what ruckus it was you know it was very much they were like it was an underground label but it was you know i mean most uh quality um you know barrel much it was like pretty much all eminem was on rocket soundbomb yeah he was

on soundbomb yeah so um so they were just you know putting out amazing stuff that we really enjoyed and so um we just kind of started making records put some stuff up on the internet and uh yeah we had a record which is sound is like today but those who don't know how would you describe your sound today like now it's it's not the same it's not the same but it's still us it's still us it's weird it's like it our sound has evolved musically but it still sound like little brother yeah like when i had um after our last album came out uh may lord watch and then we just put out two singles last october october uh with wish me well and glory glory september september september my bad and uh one of the biggest We just put out two singles last October. October. With Wish Me Well and Glory Glory.

September. September. It was September, my bad. And one of the biggest compliments we got was that somebody said, yo, I can make an LB playlist from y'all's stuff 20 years ago to now, and it sounds like y'all haven't missed a beat. I can't tell that it's dated. It doesn't sound.

It still sounds timeless. And that was something I think we always strive for. So that's if i had described it i would just say it's timeless can i ask you a question about just being from the south when you first this is random when you first heard ghetto dope right then you think it was kind of blasphemous just a little bit just a little yo i was i was jamming too hard man dude man i played man ghetto dope that i played we ran that whole album trying to do something

that was moby dick was doing all the hooks uh i could i was these are rappers you pause worthy people okay i know you heard me say ghetto d this is the album oh no that's explainable That's explainable Man we Bourbons and Lacks Weak Man Cop Man we We ran that album Left to right man So nah

It was We didn't really I didn't really think of it As blasphemous I just thought it was I looked at it as Pete paying homage To that era

You know what I'm saying Paying homage to Rod And all of them So I love that album But you guys also came out In the era where The DJ and the producer Was part of the group right

Yeah yeah Whether it was Of course Run DMC JMSJ Fresh Prince I love that album. But you guys also came out in an era where the DJ and the producer was part of the group, right? Yeah, yeah. Whether it was, of course, Run DMC, JMSJ, Fresh Prince and Jazzy Jeff, Salt Pepper Spinderella. Damn, they ain't that old. Gangstar. But Gangstar. Gangstar, yeah. Pre-GK. Right.

And 9th Wonder was part of Little Brother in the beginning. Yeah, yeah. He's not here now. So what's the relationship with 9th Wonder? part of Little Brother in the beginning. Yeah, yeah. He's not here now. So what's the relationship with 9th Wonder? Is there no more relationship? There's no more relationship, but there's no, I mean, we talk about it in the doc, but no, we're just separate entities, you know what I'm saying? We came in the game together, but we're Little Brother, he's 9th Wonder, and we're just separate

entity that we coexist peacefully, you know what I mean? And that's just what it is. Why didn't you participate in the doc though? Because I mean, this is the Little Brother that's that's a question for him yeah you know but like i would like to have heard his perspective of it now as well did y'all reach out to him we absolutely yeah we reached out you know i'm saying uh made it clear that you know it wasn't this wasn't gonna be a hit piece we wasn't coming for nobody next we know we're just telling our story in just a beautiful honest way and And he just shows not to participate.

And that's his right to. I feel like y'all set him up nice, especially when you first told the early story about. I forgot what album it was, but it was an album. I think it was Afura. Afura. Yeah, yeah, yeah. That got produced by DJ Premier. And he was like, yo, that's what I want to be.

And one of y'all encouraged him like, yo, you can be that. Absolutely. Absolutely. Yeah, man. We were always. I mean, we coming up. I mean, you you gotta keep in mind like dude we like 19 20 years old you know i'm saying like i mean we you know we're just trying

to figure out let alone trying to figure out how to be artists or figure out how to be men yeah you know i mean like so you know trying to figure out all that stuff at the same time i mean man it's you know it's it's tough so um but yeah but we tried to tell the story just as honestly as you know as we could and uh but you know we can't speak for another person we can only tell our experience right and so he chose not to and that's his right what made y'all want to do the um the documentary right now is it anything other than the fact that y'all been 20 years in the game um i mean 20 years uh but uh no i mean we talked about we just wanted to tell our story our way um you know we didn't want it to be uh you know unsung or told by somebody told by somebody else you know i mean

or you know so they can pick their angle their slant or whatever and we want it to be our story our voices our way and so we said let's do it and we just started the journey we didn't know what we was doing but we started the journey uh 2018 and it just took us time to kind of um figure out the story we wanted to tell and how we wanted to tell it and i think the pandemic actually helped us tremendously because that version of the movie now is that's the third version y'all been trying trying and trying to knock it down and it's just very it's something that you know with documentaries i mean they're tough and i think a lot of filmmakers they will try to do docs because they think that it's easier because you're telling a factual story you know i mean but it's like even if you're telling a factual story

it still has to be compelling and you still have to arrange those facts in a compelling way. Because if you're just telling facts, that's not a movie. That's a fucking book report. Like, nobody wants to see that. You know what I mean? You have to give a story. And so our partners on it, Holland Gallagher, who's our director, and Yo Phillips, who's our writer, they really were our partners in it. And they're younger than us and so we thought it was important

to have people who were from a different generation to kind of catch a lot of the blind spots that we make if not saw right and uh we thought that was important and so they came in and they really helped kind of shape the narrative because they were looking at this they weren't super fans of us and that was something that we did not want we didn't want someone that was the ultimate little brother fan making this movie because they feel like they already know the story and if they you know you you dead in the water then and that's just not the way documentary works so they really came in and were able to just you know tell we told our stories we did our interviews interviews we shot our personal interviews um everyone else we gave the questions

beforehand uh like because you know it's you know my grandmother rest in peace our mothers homies you know i'm saying it's not like you're working with actors you're working with people you know i mean so you got to give them time to kind of think what you want to say so we gave them all the questions beforehand and then when it came time for me and poo interview we told holland and yo like yo, we told Holland and yo, like, yo bro, we don't want nothing.

Like, just get in here and go get in here. Whatever you ask one, take one shot. That's what it is. And so that's, that's, that's what y'all got.

You see evolution in it. I mean, you see dog skin Leonard in there. Absolutely. You see, you see the Leonard with a hairline. Yo, when I see the interview,

I'm like, that sound like something, but that man got hair. He was showing everybody. He when I see the interview I'm like that sound like something but that man got hair he was showing everybody he was like look I was like oh my god you look like one of the kids

from Lean On Me oh wow wow Mr. Club Mr. Club I can't breathe what year was that 02 or 03

nah that was that was a mystery show that was 05 05 it was 05 because I remember that was 05 that was the only

we talked about it briefly on QLS but yeah that was on five five yeah it was on five because i remember that was the only we talked about it briefly on qls but yeah that was the only interview that i missed because when we had to do that that run i think your son yeah that was when my son's son was born so it was just me and knife uh on that run every time i see that i think about it because i wasn't as polished as i am now they're doing interviews and i't know i'm gonna work there i said i ain't worked there like like nah but nah that was that was funny that was that was blast from the past uh yeah that was 05 yeah it was 05 it was 05 so when 9th Wonder got the call

from Hov to to work with him and Hov started doing production do you think that production area kind of dismantled the group a lot absolutely not nah nah man nah like we we we was happy we was excited for him you know i mean like shit we got to go to baseline and hear it before it came out sitting there with hove and all that but nah we was we knew it that's a big opportunity it's fucking jay-z you know i mean like come on yeah man you want stuff for your team like you want you know if you you know studying hip-hop most of the big producers they get their starting groups so we just saw it as just a natural progression you know i mean so yeah it was amazing just to know that you know one of your homies can make a beat on his laptop and it ends up with jay-z rapping over i mean that shit was like oh my like what

you know i'm saying and it really it really for us was um for me it was a sign of the kind of the changing of the guard in terms of what constituted studio quality you know because for a long time you know you had to have when people thought of a studio they thought of it as like okay it's this big the big boards and like these big you know big consoles and big speakers and everything and beat makers were pretty much thought of as you know like hardware but for him to make something you know on a laptop i mean that was the beginning of software you know he really pioneered that you know i mean so now with him with fruity loops and now i mean that's pretty much kind of the standard with cats making records on machine and uh ableton and stuff like that and so it really

was uh it was validation for us. I mean, we made our first album literally in a friend's apartment, you know what I'm saying, with a mic. Like, the mic we recorded listening on, it wasn't as good as this mic. It wasn't even this. It was like a little $300 mic. Carnival MC mic. Yeah, we had like a

little joint on it, but... I know what Joe Scudder was describing. Yeah, that was what it was. And you know what I mean? And so, but we did it and i guess the the lesson for me was just that you know as long as you have a taste there is there aren't really no rules in music you just have to have a degree of taste that can translate to an audience and if you can make it make sense to them and they get it and that's really all you need and uh we were able to do that with very limited means and so i'm just uh I'm just thankful. Why,

why, why YouTube? That was the other thing I was wondering, like, you know, did y'all even try to shop into like Netflix? Anybody? The writers of stranger things were on strike.

Nah, I mean, and Lovecraft countries on Tubi. Absolutely. Oh my God. For real today. Yes. Like I love Tubi too.

You know what I mean? I did a show chime at the apollo marathon the other night like watching straight out of compton on toby yeah um yeah i think for us because people always ask that question right and first to start off as a joke throw this shit up on youtube but then we start thinking about it like that's exactly that's where it's going like i know seven years who stay. Like I know seven year olds who stay on YouTube. I know 69 year olds who stay on YouTube. So for us, it was just like all this shit is on the Internet.

It's all the same. It all looks like the same Internet. So the objective here was I was talking to a homie of mine. I was just like, you know, he's like, you know, I got this project. I don't know what I should do. I said, listen, what's your objective? Are you trying to be validated by one of these companies are you looking for the bag or do you want people to see this shit we wanted people to see our documentary so the easiest way is you get anybody can go up

on youtube you can watch you don't gotta watch it in one set and i ain't gotta explain how my mama how to log into youtube oh everybody knows how to go on youtube you can watch it on the phone anywhere and then also what we saw because we we came into the industry of 03 when we signed atlantic we saw how the music industry was changing we real time we was part of it we seeing the same thing happen right now for film and television ain't nobody trying to get caught up in that bullshit no no i'm not trying to be banging trying to get the masters for my movie back in 10 years like get the fuck out of here i mean so yeah it was really you know youtube was it was the only platform that spoke directly to the little brother story you know i'm saying you know we were one of the first rap groups to go viral at a time when no one even knew what that was or even how to monetize it you

know i'm saying because it was just so early you know i mean and so a big part of that had to do with people being able to freely access our music and it was something that was shared and we just thought that our movie you know about our music and about our lives, it had to be experienced in that same way. You know, we put it out and, you know, we dropped it on Black Friday on YouTube. And, you know, we did the premiere on YouTube. And my man, shout out my man, Devin Morrison. He hit me and was like, yo, bro, I'm about to stream this joint on my Twitch channel. Pull up.

I said, hell yeah, nigga, let's go. You know what I mean? So I jumped on his Twitch. You know what I mean? He's screening it. I'm in the chat. Like like knowledge is in the chat shout to him like we all just chopping it up and you know that was just a kind of communal experience that we would not have been able to have had we tried to do it in a traditional way you know i mean like that you know that just really it just felt true to who we were and um and who we are and so that was uh that was why we

decided to go youtube yeah even getting introduced to y'all via the internet you know south carolina was right there by north carolina but i heard about y'all via online people will not uh understand how big allhiphop.com was listen listen shout out the jigsaw yes man people do not realize how big that shit was nah man all hip-hop s-o-h-h okay player i mean that really was just kind of your really just you know where you found out about music you know i'm saying just where all the stuff you could kind of see on the come up that was where you found it and you know back to to the film yeah we just kind of saw like now we have the opportunity to go direct to consumer in a way that we didn't have in 2003.

Like if I mean, shit, if we would have had Bandcamp in 2003, I wouldn't sign a fucking record deal in Iraq. What would have made Little Brother bigger, though? Right. Because you talk to rappers and for most rappers, some of them would say you're one of their favorite groups. Right. Yeah. But a lot of the fans, a lot of the people that listen might not have heard little brother right what what do you think would have made little brother bigger if it would have been maybe signing to a ruckus that concentrates directly on yeah yeah underground music it would have been you know a kotz record that's definitely under like what do you think would have made him made you guys bigger um i don't know i it's it's that's a tricky question because like i said the industry was changing at the time so you know for us i always say we was we was after the raucous era but we was before you know whatever yeah we were the bridge the bridge from from that to you know like the coals

and the kindred and all of them so i don't know if it was in the cars for us to be bigger honestly i think we are yeah we was the lead blockers you know i mean't know if it was in the cars for us to be bigger honestly i think we are yeah we was the lead blockers you know i mean like you know we was you know we was sent to take out the linebacker like it wasn't necessarily you you're not gonna get the glory you're not gonna get the touchdown you're not gonna you gotta do your job do your job well and you'll be remembered rewarded honored for that you know i mean respected for that and so yeah i don't i don't know if bigger was in the cards for us honestly because i know who we are you know and right you know and i know who we are is i don't know if that's conducive

nah it wasn't like i remember having i remember uh minstrel show came out and we did uh i think what was the first week it was like 18 18 something like that you know i mean 18 000 records and you know back then that was just that was the worst you got a weed play yeah straight up but you said 18 000 now like phenomenal album yeah thank you man but i remember like we did it and uh it came out and i remember uh talking to amir um shout shouts to amir man that's that's big bro for real and um you know he was saying he was like listen man y'all gonna have to go crazy like y'all gonna have to perform at the label y'all gonna have to do this like y'all

gonna have to you know perform even in the lobby like y'all gonna have to do this do this and the thing was he was right he was absolutely right and i just talked to him i remember having a conversation we were just like we ain't doing that shit that's not who we are no i'm like nigga i just made an album called the mistress are you thinking about to be in a label dance on top of my fucking table like you know like that that's just not who we are all up at your label all in the video nah so you know it was just one of those things and um it's it's really just as an artist you know throughout our journey, you really just have to decide what's for you and what's not.

And the things that are for you, you know, I tell you all the time, you can't ever look at someone's success and, you know, think that, OK, that's what I want, because you don't know the price that they paid for that success. You know, I mean, you don't you know, that may not be something that you're willing to do or it just may not be uh it may not align with who you are as a person and so i think the biggest lesson for us uh which is the beauty of this era now which i think a lot of artists don't get you know they're frustrated because it's like man it's just so much content it's so much you compete with everything but the beautiful thing about it for us is that you have the ability to go direct to consumer and whatever it is that you're into you can just find an audience around that it's like the difference between you know in our era it was trying to hit a moving target it was trying to hit

a moving bullseye in this era it's just you fire a shot and wherever it lands you just paint the target around that bullet you know i'm saying you just you know and that's what we've been able to do and it just makes for uh it does you know it makes for better art and just makes for happier people y'all also stopped when the game shifted to everything y'all already was on like like y'all it was like nine years between projects right it was like 2010 is when you really got introduced to the kendricks and the coals and the drakes that was y'all that's y'all energy like you see y'all they all was inspired by you yeah man what y'all was doing yeah so y'all stopped oh yeah i mean that was that was a that was definitely a frustration of mine was just like we fought so

hard to get up that proverbial hill and we got up there and was like all right we done yeah it was yeah because you had that moment like you just you know green moment bro like yeah at this night show is that yeah i know this audience my audience is laughing with me they're not laughing at me you know i mean but no it was very much that i remember we did a show our last la show this is well before we broke officially this was 2010 20 yeah 2010 kendrick kendrick it's in the doc it's a section with me kendrick and abso that was from that show we had kendrick opening yeah on that show open and that was like we were in the worst shape ever we were like we weren't even talking we wasn't even it was the energy was just it was just foul and i remember like kendrick coming up afterwards and he was like yo man i fuck with y'all

i'm a big fan like let's link whatever i'm like yeah bro like cool you know adapt them up game i love what you do and like that was it but i really know we look back on it now and it was really you know i just hate that i wish they could have seen us in a better place because by that time 2010 we was just over we like this we like each other we was tired of the game everything it was like what got you there what got you to the point where the group wasn't cool anymore well communicating yeah we had different goals we didn't know how to communicate i'll say that like you know we didn't have the tools or the time i mean listen the time or the time yeah because i mean you gotta think about it and i and i think about this all the time like with artists like now like the younger generation

they keep thinking of okay i want to go viral like going viral and like dude a lot of times that shit is not what you think it is like you know i'm saying it really it can be the kiss of death sometimes you know i mean and so for us you know back then this is 2002 or you know whatever you know we went viral and so your music goes further and faster than you have the time to develop as a person you know i mean and so it's like bruh this again me and poo knew each other a grand total of probably what two years before we got signed? So we didn't know each other. Yeah, and I mean, and again, it's one thing to be like, this is my man.

Like, we in the cab. We kicking it. We in the room freestyling. But to go from this is my man to now this is my business partner and we are contractually bound together. That sucks. Dude. You know what I mean? It's a lot. I mean, looking back, you didn i mean it was a lot i mean looking back

yeah you didn't realize it then when you in it but looking back you were like yo that was a fucking lot like that was a lot we was trying to navigate together we didn't know each other really honestly nah straight up and we didn't know the game. We didn't know shit. And then y'all still had your personal lives. Y'all, y'all. Oh, yeah. Yeah, I had two kids. Yeah, my boys were young at the time. But, yeah, it was, nah, it was a lot we was trying to figure out. So we just didn't have the time, the tools to really know how to communicate with each other, to understand what was going on.

Like, shit, we didn't know each other. So, like, even now, my big thing is i need to understand why right your answer is your answer but if i understand you i know why you answered that way so now i know shit he gonna say and why he gonna say it before i even ask the question but i didn't know that then so he didn't know that about me so it'll be things where in the doc we talk about you had to learn each other yeah it's like doing the label so when we got off atlantic we had capital records one of the signers i was talking with uh shaka zulu's um assistant we were supposed to met with shaka so we had all these things moving

after we got off atlantic but he don't understand why i'm like shit let's give it another go and i don't understand why he like fuck that shit i'm's give it another go. And I don't understand why he like, fuck that shit. I'm off that. Like, I do my own thing. So just not having that understanding and not knowing how to talk to each other, man, that was I tell people all the time. And it's not just in a relationship with a partner, spouse, significant other. It's all your relationships. If you don't know how to communicate and talk and actually listen because communication is

if you don't know how to do that that shit going is it's not going to end up well yeah and that's kind of where we was well people can't be afraid to talk though like you gotta you gotta know you can trust your phone up call your peoples say what you need to say and even if they feel a way that's still gonna be your people still your people no people and i think this generation now you know like i mean because my boys my sons are they're 23 and i was a 23 and 18 and the thing i noticed that their generation they are they're far more emotionally uh intelligent than we are in tune than we are you know i mean like they got they got all the tiktok terms and the therapy term like these niggas know all that shit you know i mean like they got they got all the tiktok terms and the therapy term like these niggas know all that shit you know i mean so that's the evolution of time yeah they're they're

far more emotionally uh you know available gotta remember we came up off the a man gotta be a man is your country falling apart feeling tired depressed a little bit revolutionary consider this start your own country. I planted the flag. I just kind of looked out of like, this is mine. I own this. It's surprisingly easy. There are 55 gallons of water, 500 pounds of concrete. Everybody's doing it. I am King Ernest Emmanuel.

I am the Queen of Ladonia. I'm Jackson I, King of Capraburg. I am the Supreme Leader of the Grand Republic of Mentonia. Be part of a great colonial tradition. Why can't I create my own country? My forefathers did that themselves. What could go wrong? No country willingly gives up their territory. I was making a rocket with a black powder, you know, with explosive warheads.

Oh my God. What is that? Bullets. Bullet holes. We need help! We still have the off-road portion to go. Listen to Escape from Zakistan. And we're losing daylight fast.

That's Escape from Z-A-Q-istan on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Hey guys, I'm Kate Max. You might know me from my popular online series, The Running Interview Show, where I run with celebrities, athletes, entrepreneurs, and more. After those runs, the conversations keep going. That's what my podcast, Post Run High, is all about. It's a chance to sit down with my guests and dive even deeper into their stories, their journeys, and the thoughts that arise once we've hit the pavement together. You know that rush of endorphins you feel after a great workout? Well, that's when the real magic

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for self-preservation and protection. it was literally that step by step. And so I discovered that that is how we get where we're going. This increment of small, determined moments. Alicia shares her wisdom on growth, gratitude, and the power of love. I forgive myself. It's okay. Like grace. Have grace with yourself. You're trying your best and And you're gonna figure out the rhythm of this thing. Alicia Keys like you've never heard her before.

Listen to On Purpose with Jay Shetty on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Hi, I'm Marie. And I'm Sydney. And we're Mess. Well, not a mess, but on our podcast called Mess, we celebrate all things messy.

But the gag is, not everything is a mess. Sometimes it's just living. Yeah, things like J-Lo on her third divorce. Living. Girls' trip to Miami. Mess. Ozempic. Messy, skinny living.

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And we'd like you to join us each week for our show Civic Cipher. That's right. We're going to discuss social issues, especially those that affect black and brown people, but in a way that informs and empowers all people to hopefully create better allies. Think of it as a black show for non-black people. We discuss everything from prejudice to politics to police violence. And we try to give you the tools to create positive change in your home, workplace and social circle. Exactly. Whether you're black, Asian, white, Latinx, indigenous, LGBTQIA+, you name it. If you stand with us, then we stand with you. Let's discuss the stories and conduct the interviews that will help us create a more empathetic, accountable, and equitable America. You are all our brothers and sisters, and we're inviting you to join us for Civic Cipher each and every Saturday.

With myself, Ramses Jha, Q Ward, and some of the greatest minds in America. Listen to Civic Cipher every Saturday on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. And you don't show your feelings, and you don't cry. It's going to be hard.

It's going to be hard. That's not going to work. That's not going to work. Just that time, like you said, we left kind of before that way, you know, that nine year span, that span from 2010 to 2019. You know, when we came back, you know, that just gave us time to grow up. You know what I'm saying? And, you know, it's it was a bill that was going to it was coming due. You know, so it's like we paid it then, you you know we needed those nine years because we had such a

quick kind of ascension but um yeah we just needed that time to just grow up i saw donald glover say recently that all new most most new rappers now and i think he kind of meant like that generation that started in 2010 yeah yeah we're because of kanye i would say kanye and little brother absolutely yeah i would absolutely yeah man kanye was uh we had um god kanye he first came to durham 2004 three four yeah three or four it was before uh i think college dropout came out no it was before it was before because get rich and die trying oh yeah it was oh yeah so it was before that oh that might have been oh two three something it might have been oh three then yeah yeah it was before kyle to drop out though yeah and um he had at the time the records that was bubbling

he had the um stand up by ludicrous that was out and he was about to put out the this way record he did with dilated peoples but he was in durham doing some kind of like conference or whatever and so he was there and you know this is before anything like he's just you know chilling and he just would walk around just like rapping out of nowhere okay my nigga yo fine kanye and fonte is like like he would just be rapping like bro but and i thought he was you know acting you know i mean but now you know 20 plus years later it's clear i'm like, bro, but, and I thought he was, you know, acting, you know what I mean? But now, you know, 20 plus years later, it's clear. I'm like, yeah, that wasn't an act. He's the same.

His acting is on a different level. It's just on a higher platform. Exactly. But he's the same. He's always been. But yeah, but back then we, you know, we did shows, you know, we toured with him. You know, we opened up and everything. And yeah, man, it was a, it was a fun time you know i mean you know you

could kind of see just him putting the pieces together and you could see him also really kind of struggling with fame to some degree like i remember we were at um man this was like south beat you remember who's that uh oh the billboard hip-hop awards yeah we were in like Man, this was like South Beach. You remember? Who was that? Oh, the Billboard Hip Hop Awards. Hip Hop Awards, yeah. We were in like South Beach. He was in Miami for like a weekend, whatever. And he had his Rockefeller chain. And we was going to a club.

We were going to a club. And he would take his chain out and have his chain out in the club. But then the minute we left, he would tuck it back in. And that was just something that I always saw. When you speak know you ask about you know why weren't we bigger i think one of the things well first of all it was a choice um it definitely was a choice um and that was something that we really want to make clear in the documentary that the little brother story is not a sad story at all you know i'm saying um you know it was

really you know choices that we made and i think for me i kind of had my you know ghost of christmas past present scrooge kind of thing and that i saw a lot of these guys when they were kind of on the come up and was able to kind of see what fame did to them yeah it did to them or and i just you know like they were just you know prisoners or something but to see the effect that had on their lives and how they had to really live it wasn't just yeah you everyone wants the money everyone wants that but that ain't all it come with you know being scared of fame or just not wanting to get robbed well i mean it was probably a little but it was very but it was real like he was like the image that you have to have in certain places exactly when you leave it's over he back regular and because i mean because when we was when he was like kicking it with us i mean we just we just kicked it yeah

we just kicking it but when the camera's on he knew how to become kanye i gotta i gotta be me a different way a different way yeah amplify version of who i am without the lights in the camera so little brother wasn't willing to perform basically nah nah man because that's not that's not you know this is a long game first of all that's just exhausting fam and unsustainable very unsustainable you burn out quick but y'all have always shown y'all humor especially in video but that's who we are yeah naturally like who i am in this interview is who i am when this interview is over is who i am when i get on this plane to go home is who i am when i get home like i am who i am and is not well i talk to people when the lights come on i don't really talk to people when the lights go off that's that's the difference I don't like people.

That's the difference. Why would you be in the room dark room with strangers? That, that, that Not the conversation we're having. Not the conversation we're having. Not the conversation we're having. It's not a back out. Not the conversation we're here for.

Nah man, I mean we just, you know, I just saw like when I looked at a lot of the people that you know i looked up to in the game and looked at the people that were able to have that longevity that was something that was always important to me you know i'm saying really being able to stand the test of time and be in the game and you know this is a game where with music and just entertainment just art in general i really do believe that it's a game that the longer you play the luckier you get you know i'm saying the longer you stay in it but you're only going to stay in it for a long time if you're doing things that you enjoy you know i mean you otherwise and like i don't care

like people they say you know looking from the outside they're like oh man if i had an opportunity i would do anything i would do whatever i would do and it's like nah say that's the wrong person seriously and you have to you have to make those choices because it's this game like me and pooh like we're just talking you know in you know in the break room you know man this game it don't know what to do with niggas that ain't thirsty like they don't know what to do with that like when you are not you know the whole thing just oh yo you do whatever you know i'm saying that's hungry that's hungry you got to be hungry that's not i'll do whatever that's not hunger that's thirst you should never be thirsty what you're saying is so true because when you talk about these recording contracts or

just contracts people be signing in general, you can't get somebody to sign some bullshit if they're not extra thirsty. If they got leverage and they don't need it, they'll negotiate what they want. And all people will negotiate with you. But that's if they have leverage. But most of these contracts, especially back in the day, you find somebody that got a little spark that wants to be the next artist and says, okay, they feel like that'll be an opportunity for them. And they'll feel like, you know what?

I'll get to that opportunity and then I'll make it right. But then they don't realize they signed for 10 years and 10 hours. It's tough to make it right. It is no making it right. Take advantage of that naivete, man. I feel like there's a story here. I feel like there's a story here i feel like there's a story so i'm about to ask right now what how important with all that being said how important is like awards to you like and that because you guys are very very very stern on who y'all are yeah and

like you said earlier you don't know who you are is conducive to some shit like this or you know especially nowadays and the thirst and you know versus hunger so how important are award shows and like getting awards to artists like you man i was i'll go first i was nominated my other group the foreign exchange r&b group we were nominated for a grammy in 2010 and i had the opportunity to go to the grammys and really see what that experience was and i think having that experience just showed me like yeah this shit is kind of a racket basically i'm just keeping it a band like that shit was i mean it was you know it was great to be honored but again this is just the behind the scenes stuff that people don't get you know i mean you know when you go to these shows first and foremost you know at

least at that time you know you you still gotta buy tickets you still gotta pay for like this shit don't come with a check at all you can get out there and you can try to make something shake on your own if you want to do like i know the roots they do their grammy jam session every year whatever so if you want to kind of do that you can but generally speaking just as a nominee like everything is on you so this is you know you got to pay to go to the grammys if you're nominated yeah they give you like a ticket but you get two tickets you get tickets for you at the time

and they give you some discount tickets so if it's me and you if me and him is Grammy nominated it's like okay y'all get free tickets to the show but anyone you wanna bring y'all gotta pay and we'll let you get it for half off but you still gotta pay how much is it? half off still like $100 oh no no no not at the time when i did it

oh well i know when when i don't know what it is when dreamville was nominated and luke went he got a ticket i think doe got a ticket and i think any extra tickets would have been like a hundred dollars or something it might have been more i don't remember i know that it was tickets even for the bet awards at some point like you had to pay i remember i wanted to go one year and i had to pay like it was like 340 or something like that i didn't pay yeah so we might have been getting a super duper discount at the time when i went at the time when we went um the tickets for the grammys and again this is 2010 so you know i don't know what it is now but yeah it's 2010 like tickets for the grammys which is $ again, this is 2010, so, you know, I don't know what it is now, but yeah, this is 2010, like, tickets for the Grammys,

them tickets was $1,200 a piece. And so, in order for us to go, you know what I mean, me and Nick, Nicolay, my partner, shouts to him, we went, and so our tickets were free, but then everyone else, like, we brought, you know, family, everybody. That was $600 a pop,

you know what I'm saying? So that's $1,200 on tickets, then you got, you know, hotels, flights, like, you know i'm saying so that's 1200 on tickets then you got you know hotels flights like you know you got about clothes everything we had to pay like a pr person you know i'm saying um to like walk you talk about to walk you to red carpet to talk up your nomination and everything and you know and i've never like we never talked about it you know it was something that we didn't just have time to get into the doc but like man after i came back from the grammys like nigga i had to take out a loan yeah i had to take out like a person alone i'm like god damn i done spent my damn eight thousand dollars like this bitch you know i'm saying um and so so for me so to your original question with the awards um i think

that and just in my experience it was i was glad i got to see it but ultimately i'm just like nah i don't yeah i'm good i don't care it plays to image it plays to image yeah and i mean listen it's all you know to be nominated for a grammy like to be you know amongst you know to sit amongst you know be in that room and see it like i'm watching the show and it's like kenny g is like standing right there like same hair like same everything and and that's another thing too with the grammys dudes specifically like y'all watch it on tv at home and it's that shit like three hours you know i'm saying it's not three hours it's longer it's longer and with no and you it ain't no at the time when we went the staples center was like closing down

so like they have like the pre-grammy brunch before and you know you get a little food whatever and then they take you over to the main hall to the grammy ceremony and all the vendors in the staples center they shutting down so it's no food like it's like it's the hugger game for real for hours it was like one dude we caught that had like the little uh he had like some candy and shit he had like you know little snicker bars and damn m&ms and shit so we bought like a couple like a bag of m&ms and some snickers and shit we sitting in that bitch goddamn taking the m&ms passing the shit down and i'm like nigga this supposed to be music greatest night and i'm eating goddamn m&ms in the stable center no food not when we went i'm just saying i don't speak

about my experience but i've been to a bet hip-hop awards and that shit was about damn recording that was about five hours and i was like hell no no food we went like i walked out i left though we were supposed to present it was was taking too long, man. I had to go. Oh, my God. He really left. We were supposed to present. He was like, I'm giving y'all 10 minutes.

I'm like, he ain't going to leave. He was there all day. I'm like, he ain't going to leave. Nah, that's real, man. I'm like, I'm not beat for none of that stuff. No, man. It's there. And I mean, for me, yeah, it'd be cool to be nominated for a Grammy.

I ain't never been nominated but at the end of the day it's hey look I can't be somewhere too long and not just say what the fuck I need to say so I just don't go to places where I'm going to be there a long time

it might have to say something let me tell you the truth and then learning kind of learning what all this is. You know what I mean? It's a campaign. It's a campaign. It's not a meritocracy. And that was, I guess, the thing for me once I saw that.

It was really, you know, it's super political. It's super, you know, who you know. Like, it's a lot of those things. But, you know, for me, all i cared about was just making the music and you know if my music is standing up against somebody you know just judging on the basis of the music once you get in all this other shit it's just like again it was educational it's like okay i know that's what it is now all right cool i'm good on it you know i mean and that's the thing i want to make clear it's not that we don't care yeah we just understand what it is and what it's going to take if you want to make that run.

It's like running for president. You know what I mean? Yeah. I just don't understand why, like, I know y'all got to go, but why couldn't y'all just consistently be yourself? Because like I said, you can watch the doc and see the personality, see the humor. I was watching an old video. I don't even know why.

I was watching an old video this weekend, the video where you let your mom speak the verse. Oh, yeah, yeah. Life's a game. Yeah, yeah, yeah. You know what I'm saying? I'm like, y'all do stuff like, y'all do your own thing that's personality driven, so why not just... We're not thirsty.

Yeah, yeah, yeah. That's the key. We're not thirsty. Because it's been things people like, yo, you want to do this? And we be like, nah. You know what I mean? Like, you can ask our PR guy.

He be like, yo, I got this. We can do this. We can do this we do this and we would go right through the list no no yeah no no yeah no and like anybody else be like oh shit I'm doing all that we like no it's like it's far more intentional you know gotta curate it yeah 100 you have to curate your the kind of experience that you want to give your fans so like come into breakfast club like you know we both Carolina like there's a connection there you know i mean so it's like that you don't just do everything it's not just you know coming in with a ooze and just like nah very targeted shots because at this point in the game you know we're 20 year vets and you know the energy that you have you know you really have to

conserve and you only got to use it on the shit that really fucking matters yeah you know you really have to conserve and you only gotta use it on the shit that really fucking matters you know I mean you can't just be out here in my opinion you can't just be out here just moving crazy and just you know expending all your energy and your time on things you do not have an unlimited amount of bullets in the chamber at 45

44 45 years old I don't believe that I'll be 44 on Monday you mean time 44, 45 years old. I don't believe that. That's the whole job? No, no, no. You mean 45? I'll be 44 on Monday. You mean time, like physically how we feel about doing things? Yeah. Okay, because I feel like. No, you can do whatever, right?

You can do whatever. Yeah, I mean, you see someone like Nas that's on a run right now. Yeah, give him a mic. Give him a mic. 100%. Best rap song, best rap performance. Sweet. Absolutely.

You can do whatever you want to do what we what i'm saying is you got to be very you got to be strategic about what you're doing because the energy like just putting energy into things that don't make no sense you know when you 20 you got all the fucking energy in the world yeah 40 you like hold up now and you have to be specific and strategic like you're saying because i'm a firm believer that the work you do is the work that you're going to create more for yourself so if you start doing sucker shit you're just going to get more sucker opportunities so i'm like nah like we just gone and set this shit up off break like this what we're doing is what we're not doing and just hold that boundary and uh again it just speaks to just i think just the sustainability

of it you know we really wanted to do this for a long time and uh you know we knew we wasn't going to do that just doing moving like how we saw a lot of other rappers were moving and just a lot of just entertainment was moving we had to kind of come and do something that was very specific to who we were and we kind of had a chance to go through that again with loot you know absolutely you know um but yeah he's working with loot um signing dreamville and just doing his album and he was very adamant like i'm gonna do me like like i'm not i'm not you know yes i want things but i'm gonna do what's comfortable for me like who it was a key point conversation we had and he was like yo i want to be able to be me

everywhere and i said well if that's what you want to do this is this is kind of the roadmap for it and and that's just who he is like he's not a big mixy person he's not you know he deals with anxiety he talks about it and so he we have to be very strategic and how we move with him and it's just traces of how we move and who we are i see that in him and and so i was kind of perfect for that because i'm like i know what this is we've been down that road and and it was just one of the things where it's like yo this is this is deja vu like a motherfucker like because you can't because the thing is like and that's again with the artists now i just kind of treat kind of keep telling them like bro y'all understand i know this shit is crazy but whatever it is you're into you can find an audience for that like loot and

you know in particular cars and he's in the cars painting painting it's like dude if you if you don't want to do breakfast club like if you if that's not your thing and you just want to get your bob ross on and do little instagram snippets of you painting whatever you can do that and that shit'll go off you'll find a community of people that are into it there's a market for it and you can go directly to them and that was just something that wasn't really um you know back you know to your original question earlier about you know why we weren't bigger. I just think at that time there were choices, definite choices that we made.

But also it was very much marketing back then wasn't really tailored to the artist. It was just kind of a one size fits all. This is put this chain on. Your album is coming. This is what needs to happen. Hold this bottle. Nah, legit. You're going to this radio station. And it's like, bro bro like we don't even drink like that like this doesn't make

sense you know i'm saying i don't you know no moral objection to it but i'm like this doesn't translate and you just didn't really have the latitude to figure that out back then in a way the artists do now and so it really is a beautiful time and that's why we wanted to take advantage now of just being able to go direct to consumer go directly to our audience with the documentary and um it's just been it's been a beautiful experience how many young boys are like just like this like we don't want to change we don't want to i don't want to have to do all of this that xyz is doing to get where xyz is at you know if i never get there i never get there like this interview and your documentary is definitely gonna like that that's good for people because other guys like you out there young boys who like underground rap and they rap about things that

they feel like won't be accepted or conducive to what today's hip-hop is or today's rap or whatever and this is inspirational to a lot of boys and a lot of grown men like this. Thank you. That was part of the hope was that people can hear our story and see some of themselves in our story. And that's something we even in our youth. We didn't have that. Yeah. It was like, hey, man, it's the way you got to do it. Do it. I got two more questions because I know jess hungry and she want to go but um andre 3000 said he doesn't rap anymore because he's 48 and he has nothing to talk about it

being ogs in y'all 40s how did that statement make you feel um we talked about it on something else man it's like we look at ourselves as writers and you don't have an age limit you know we're not athletes we're not you know out there trying to dunk and we write you should be getting better with time and time even to your point about what killer mike and you know i mean hey you know when you get oh there was a um there was an archive read like years ago um that talked about how most creative breakthroughs were artists most creative breakthroughs happen in like your late 30s early 40s because that's when both sides of your brain learn to talk to each other

you know i mean and so that just i was like damn that's that's right and so you know it really is a thing where in this business again it just goes against everything because if you ain't owned by 25 you know you done you done lost it and you know a lot of um you know labels and just you know a lot of industry people they're reluctant to work with older talent what they perceive as older talent when that's the time when you know you're at your best you know i'm saying because you've lived a life i remember we interviewed chris rock on uh qls uh sometime back and he was talking about how. Questlove Supreme.

Questlove Supreme. Yeah, I'm just talking. Another IHOP property. But yeah, shouts to Questlove and my people's team Supreme. But yeah, he was interviewing Chris Rock, and he was talking about how in the early days of his stand-up, he didn't really have shit to talk about. He was like, you know, your early age stand-up is just dick jokes and shit. Because it's like, what do you have? But it's not until you go and you live and you get divorced you have kids you damn like you know you really have things to talk about and so that was

kind of for us you know with the andre statement you know we we talked about it but yeah i mean it's kind of all in the eye of the beholder if he feels that he doesn't have anything to say at 48 that's his creative journey that's how he feels you know i mean and it and it takes time to figure out you know what john with rap we've heard so long that rap is a young man's game and who you are you know when you're young so much of that is driven by hunger and like anger and just trying to make it you know nigga what what do you rap about after you done sold nigga, what do you rap about after you done sold

10 million records and you ain't struggling no more? And it's all about what you are willing to share, right? That part. We don't have to get on this radio and talk about our family.

We don't have to talk about our kids. We do, but we don't have to. I don't got to talk about mental health and going to therapy, but I do. It's about what you are willing to share.

What you're willing to share. What you're willing to share. Yeah. And my last question is, what does 20 years feel like for y'all? like a good night's sleep absolutely like legit it's a lot of this feels like a year ago two years ago i mean we lost two years but with the pandemic we lost a little bit of time but nah it don't feel it don't feel like

20 years at all like it is it's one of them things where you look back and be like, shit, like I'm about to be 44 fam. I was just 21, right? Like walking around, like what's going on here. And so it's,

and that's a blessing. You know what I mean? Like it, it ain't been a hard 20 for us. I mean, we've been through our share of things, but you know, we have, you know,

no overdoses, no, you know, nobody blocked up you know i'm saying we had none of them type of issues so it's just one of them things you know you blessed that it feels like it only been a short amount of time because that means we got 20 more plus time to go it's just gratitude i think that's what it feels like for me it's just gratitude just looking at you know a lot of cats that we came in the game with that you know didn't make it for whatever various reasons you know i'm saying um and you know and guys that were in that were like crazy

talented you know i'm saying it's just like oh my god why didn't this person get this and um you know it really is just a lesson you know man the race ain't always to the swift. You know, I mean, it really is. You know, when you see somebody that's on a pop in or whatever, there are a million different factors that play into that person having that platform. The least of which is probably their talent. Yeah. You know, talent don't. I mean, that shit is whatever. we see it every day oh yeah you know so so for us to just you know still be here and um you know 20 years later and just to be not just still here and still like relevant but just sharper mentally like i i really i really feel like as a writer i'm just getting started like there's just things and that you know as an mc and you know just as a creator there's just tools in my toolbox that i have now that i didn't have 20 years ago and uh it just i just feel reinvigorated you know i mean and even to that point for me like people told me

my best two albums writing has been my last two yeah like wine will we ever get a Fonte, Poo, Knife Wonder reunion? Nah. Damn. Damn. Didn't even think about it. It was like maybe. There was a possibility maybe a couple years. Why? They don't know. They don't understand. They don't know what the issue is. That's why we gotta watch the doc.

Yeah, it's in the doc. I mean, we talk about everything. But nah, man. It don't seem like there's nothing y'all can't reconcile. It doesn't seem like there could be at least a maybe. It's not even a... It's not even a... It's not even a thing about reconciling anything. It's just...

Because everybody alive. You know what I mean? Yeah. Yeah. That's just not what it's going to be. That's it. You know, little brothers, Fonte and Poo, and 9th Wonder is 9th Wonder. And, you know, we wish him all the best and, you know all his endeavors and we're gonna keep doing us and that's just what it is

hey anyways beyonce what's up with michelle and kelly and farrah come on she said farrah That ain't happening. Kelly and Michelle. Kelly and Michelle might get a shot. You might get a shot. You might get a shot. She started naming, you know, all of them.

Farrah, Latavia, and all that. Everybody they started with. Man, if y'all say no, you're going to be like, damn, for real? What happened? That's it. Nigga said no. It's not the same, you're going to be like, damn, for real? That's it. Nigga said no. It's not the same, though, because Destiny's Child, we got like, it felt like we got closure with that.

I don't feel like we got closure with Little Brother. The documentary is closure. He said no, Charlamagne. The documentary is all you're going to listen to. Sometimes we're not afforded the closure we want. Damn. I know, I'm a a girl You get the closure You get Damn

Well definitely Check out the documentary Learn about little brothers May the lord watch The little brother story See y'all skinning men on the ark With a hairline That was fun

That took me Like watching videos Cause you know We weren't even thinking About video I wasn't thinking About video Right no for real

To see that I was like damn And we were surprised We even had that footage Yeah Hell no he wasn't He didn't even know To see that I was like damn And we were surprised we even had that footage Yeah I didn't know he wasn't thinking He didn't even know who he was He said hold on what I showed everybody

I was like He ran over there Got some cream for his face I was you And you was dark skinned You got the Columbia, South Carolina, baby. 803.

803. Power 1039. That was a lonely man. Well, it's little brother. Thank y'all for having us, man. This was a lot of fun. And just congratulations. Thank you so much.

I love the Baltimore. I was hearing the tattoo. I was like, yes. Thank you so much. So, now, congratulations. It's the Breakfast Club. Good morning. Wake that ass up.

In the morning. The Breakfast Club, good morning. Wake that ass up. In the morning. The Breakfast Club. Had enough of this country? Ever dreamt about starting your own? I planted the flag. This is mine. I own this. It's surprisingly easy.

55 gallons of water, 500 pounds of concrete. Or maybe not. No country willingly gives up their territory. Oh my god. What is that? Bullets. Listen to Escape from Zakistan. That's Escape from Z-A-Q Estan on the iHeartRadio app,

Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Hey guys, I'm Kate Max. You might know me from my popular online series, The Running Interview Show, where I run with celebrities, athletes, entrepreneurs, and more. After those runs, the conversations keep going. That's what my podcast, Post Run High, is all about. It's a chance to sit down with my guests and dive even deeper into their stories, their journeys, and the thoughts that arise once we've hit the pavement together. Listen to Post Run High on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. As a kid, I really do remember having these dreams and visions,

but you just don't know what is going to come for you. Alicia shares her wisdom on growth, gratitude, and the power of love. I forgive myself. It's okay. Have grace with yourself. You're trying your best and you're going to figure out the rhythm of this thing. Alicia Keys, like you've never heard her before. Listen to On Purpose with Jay Shetty on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever

you get your podcasts. Hi, I'm Dani Shapiro, host of the hit podcast, Family Secrets. How would you feel if when you met your biological father for the first time, he didn't even say hello? And what if your past itself was a secret and the time had suddenly come to share that past with your child? These are just a few of the powerful and profound questions we'll be asking on our 11th season of Family Secrets. Listen to season 11 of Family Secrets on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts,

or wherever you get your podcasts. Hey, what's up? This is Ramses Jha. And I go by the name Q Ward. And we'd like you to join us each week for our show Civic Cipher. That's right. We discuss social issues, especially those that affect black and brown people, but in a way that informs and empowers all people. We discuss everything from prejudice to politics to police violence, and we try to give you the tools to create positive change in your home, workplace, and social circle. We're going to learn how to

become better allies to each other. So join us each Saturday for Civic Cipher on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.