The Breakfast Club - INTERVIEW: Malcolm Gladwell Talks Gun Control, Assault Weapon Bans, Historical Context + More

Episode Date: October 19, 2023

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Hey guys, I'm Kate Max. You might know me from my popular online series, The Running Interview Show, where I run with celebrities, athletes, entrepreneurs, and more. After those runs, the conversations keep going. That's what my podcast, Post Run High, is all about. It's a chance to sit down with my guests and dive even deeper into their stories, their journeys, and the thoughts that arise once we've hit the pavement together. Listen to Post Run High on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. I planted the flag. This is mine. I own this. It's surprisingly easy. 55 gallons of water, 500 pounds of concrete.

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if you can. Listen to Haunting on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Hey, what's up? This is Ramses Jha. And I go by the name Q Ward. And we'd like you to join us each week for our show, Civic Cipher. That's right. We discuss social issues, especially those that affect black and brown people,

but in a way that informs and empowers all people. We discuss everything from prejudice to politics to police violence, and we try to give you the tools to create positive change in your home, workplace, and social circle. We're going to learn how to become better allies to each other. So join us each Saturday for Civic Cipher on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast. Daphne Caruana Galizia was a Maltese investigative journalist who on October 16th, 2017, was assassinated. Crooks everywhere unearthed the plot to murder a one-woman WikiLeaks. She exposed the culture of crime and corruption that were turning her beloved country into a mafia state.

Listen to Crooks everywhere on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Wake that ass up early in the morning the breakfast club yep it's the world's most dangerous morning show the breakfast club charlemagne the guy just hilarious envy had to step out for a second but we have the great malcolm gladwell here this morning good morning brother good morning morning morning morning he just released a six-part series a revisionist history is back. What is the series about, man? It's about gun violence. Okay. I decided to do sort of an extended look

at what we're not talking about when it comes to guns in this country. It ranges all over the map. We start out by making fun of the Supreme Court, which is surprisingly easy to do. There's this one case that they had two years ago, which is this big, the New York City, where they struck down a New York State gun law

that had been in place for 100 years. And there's an exchange, and they tape, you know, their oral arguments, they tape them so you can listen to them. There's an exchange where the justices, two of the justices, Alito and Kavanaugh, are arguing with the lawyer for New York State. And their argument is that we would all be better off if we could carry handguns on the subway. And the lawyer for New York State is like, basically she's insane, but basically she's like, have you ever ridden the subway?

Do you know what a gunfight on a subway would look like? And they're completely oblivious. And so I went on and on about this, imagining it's a bunch of guys. One of the guys, Alito, is a rich kid from suburban New Jersey. If he has ever ridden the subway in his life, I'd be very surprised. Kavanaugh is a rich kid from suburban DC. The closest he came to the subway was his mom's minivan. And they're having this surreal conversation where they legit think that if everybody on the A train had a Glock, we would be safer.

Like, it's just like that level. So that's sort of one of the early ones. And then tell a bunch of one story about a crazy story about a guy in Alabama who had a shooting in his home and what happens when the ambulance doesn't come because they think the kid who got shot is black. Wow. And then I went the last one is the one of the most moving ones ever done. There's a guy, an ER doc at the University of Chicago hospital called Abdallah Price, and

grew up on the South Side, goes to med school, and then practices on the South Side. And that's obviously one of the epicenters of gun violence in this country. I just sat down with him. I went to Chicago, I sat down with him, and he's sort of talking about the experience of when you don't know.

People are wheeled in on the gurney on a Saturday night. And he'll know, chances are, he grew up with that kid. Told me, I think 15 people he grew up with have been killed by guns in the last, since he, you know. And when he said grew up with, he meant friends, people. He said his definition was somebody who was in his phone. Yeah, know them personally. So I just went all around the country, Alabama, Chicago.

I hung out with some trauma surgeons in D.C. Talk about what happens when you show up. And it was just the most, one of the fascinating things about it was very few of the people who I talked to, who are on the front lines of gun violence in this country, talked about gun control. This doesn't interest them. They see what's going on. And the debate that we, the policy debates we have in Washington are just so

far removed from their daily experience. If two kids, both with illegal handguns, get high on a Saturday night and have an argument and shoot each other, how exactly is a law in Washington supposed to fix that? Or if you get shot and you die because, this is the story I was telling in Chicago, for the longest time there was no trauma center on the south side of Chicago. If you got shot, they took you by ambulance all the way to the north side. You know how far that is in traffic? So lots of people, all these cases of kids who would just die in the ambulance on the way. Now, how exactly is some abstract argument about the Second Amendment going to fix the plight of somebody

who's got to spend 35 minutes in an ambulance to get to a trauma center? So it's like I just came to the conclusion that there's a lot of people in this country who are deeply invested in these debates that have been going on for decades now. And they're just out of touch with... And even something as simple, this is maybe going to get me in a little trouble, but when

we talk about gun violence in this country, we spend a huge amount of time talking about mass shootings. Mass shootings are statistically a drop in the bucket. It's like 1% to 2%. And so we're consumed with the very tiny part of the problem that happens to affect middle class suburban America. Right. And then the rest of it is like whatever.

Kind of shrugging whatever. I got so many questions based off what you just said. Back to the rest of it is like, whatever, kind of shrugging, whatever. I got so many questions based off what you just said. Back to the subway thing real quick. Yes, I don't think handguns, everybody having a handgun on the subway will make things safer, but people do feel safer when they see police officers with handguns on the subway. Absolutely. How do you explain that? Well, because a police officer knows how to use a gun. The problem, well, I mean, the problem with the handgun is so hilarious. You talk to people who actually know a lot about guns and they will tell you, it is so hard to hit what you want to hit with a handgun, particularly if you're not an expert and you're terrified. So if two people

have a shootout on a subway car, they're going to hit everybody. They're going to be like, it's going to be mayhem. This idea that everyone is cool under pressure when they're making a life or death decision with a hand is nuts. Even police, well, even police officers don't always hit what they're supposed to hit. I had a really fun discussion with a prosecutor in Brooklyn on this very question. And he was like, you know, I've been doing this for whatever, 20 years. He's like, yeah, even cops rarely shoot straight. So

why would we want to introduce more guns into a closed steel box running under the East River? You know, like it's just the, but like, it's just that the thing that's weird is just how out of touch. What I really, my real point in was not to get into an argument about guns on the subway. It was the idea that our policy is being made in this country by a bunch of people who are completely out of touch. Are they out of touch or are the gun lobbyists just too in their pockets? Because, I mean, when you look... It's probably both. Yeah, yeah.

They're just making these sort of abstract legal arguments. And I sort of wanted to, why are they even debating gun control in Washington? Why don't they, they should take that show on the road. Let's put them on the A train at eight o'clock at night and then show them, okay, what do you think would happen if six people on this in this car right now we're we're carrying a handgun i mean there's just there has to be to do something to kind of reconnect the conversation why do you think uh we as americans are so obsessed with guns well you know i'm canadian so that's why I say we. I know. As Americans. We, yeah. I'm looking at you. No, no, I was going to say,

I didn't mean that to you. No, no, no, I got you, I got you. But like, so it's, you know, we're just to the north, settled at roughly the same time by people from Europe and, you know, and whatever. I mean, the history is parallel, but we're not obsessed with...

I've never been able to wrap my mind around why. I don't have... What I'm saying is I can't answer that question because I grew up in Canada and there's no guns. I didn't see a gun. Right. Till you got over here. Till I got over here.

So I don't know. You could, I suppose, there's all kinds of complicated historical reasons for that, but it's weird how kind of gun-focused. Is it the legislation you think? I mean, I don't know the gun laws in Canada, so. Yeah. So if you watch, this is not an answer to the question,

but if you watch, there's a category of Canadian Westerns. So the same idea, some guy out on the range in the frontier, like bringing justice. In Canadian Westerns, the Mountie, not a sheriff, but like a Mountie, he spends all of his time pulling dogs out of the river and helping little old ladies. He doesn't even carry a gun.

In the Canadian fantasy of the Wild West, it's like somebody lost a cow and they call on the... In the American fantasy, it's like people are shooting each other up. Straight up 300. So there's something about the fantasies. Right from the beginning, there was a weird set of fantasies that get attached to... I think TV... I did an episode of this series on this gun series on Revisionist History

that looked that was all about Gunsmoke you know it was the longest running western on TV and we did

one of the things we did is we calculated so Gunsmoke takes place in Dodge City in Kansas and we tried

to calculate based on the TV show what would the what's the homicide rate in the fictional Dodge City and the answer is, it's like 80 times higher than the highest homicide rate in a real American city. So in our fantasy world, we create an America that is infinitely more dangerous and scary than the

real America, right? And by the way, Gunsmoke was on TV for 20 years. It was on for 20 years. It's one of the most popular TV shows of all time. And it was peddling a kind of vision of American life that was, again, out of touch. Do you think that is because the media is always leading? Like you would say, if it bleeds, it leads. So we think that America is way worse than it actually is because of the news? Yeah, I do think.

Well, it's an odd thing. I got really, you know when Ron DeSantis was running around lecturing New Yorkers on how dangerous New York is? Meanwhile, New York and New York State are so much safer than Florida. You want to go someplace and put your life in your hands? Go to Jacksonville. Jack and Kim. Wow. The idea that the governor of one of the most violent states in the country is lecturing New Yorkers, New York City and New York State, by the way, one of the safest regions of the country,

he got a free pass. Everyone was like, yeah, New York must be more dangerous than Florida. No, it's totally the opposite. So it's like, it is a fascination with this kind of violence, coupled with a set of completely unexamined assumptions about what's dangerous in America, where the danger is. Honestly, Google Jacksonville and then you will never go to Jacksonville again that's all I know I don't know why I'm not gonna shoot in that Jacksonville this morning knew we had a caller from Jacksonville. Damn.

By the way, I should say, I have been to Jacksonville many times. Parts of Jacksonville are quite lovely. But the governor of Florida should not be lecturing us about violence is all I have to say. Damn, Duval, your city caught one this morning. You said that people, the conversation we're not having about guns.

What is that? Is it about the people? Because I feel like they always have conversations about gun control, but they never talk about the people who actually own the guns. There's that. There is the, well, there's all kinds of sort of weird things

that we're not talking about. We're not talking about, I did that episode on trauma centers. We're not talking about the fact that hospitals, trauma centers, should be where the victims of gun violence are. And we have a system right now in this country where we don't always, sometimes we do, we don't always put medical facilities where they're needed. We put them where they make the most money.

And so that's one thing we don't talk a lot about, when we should. It's a huge issue. You know, one of the episodes in the series, I looked at the question of a homicide rate, a murder rate at any given time is a function of two things. One is how much violence there is. And the second is how good is the medical care, right?

If you get shot and you get taken directly to the hospital and they save your life, you're not a homicide victim. If the same thing happens and you don't get to the hospital time and you die, you are a homicide victim, right? So a lot depends on how good your hospital system is. And a huge amount, if we have situations like in Chicago, they did a study and they showed that if you were black, you traveled a lot further to a trauma center than if you were white. Like that's something, that's the kind of thing you should talk about.

A big something. You know, you could save a lot of lives if you cite. Another thing- Maybe they're not trying to save them. Maybe that's the point. I think it's indifference is more than, or just like, you know, the amount of oxygen, like I said before, the amount of oxygen that gets taken up by our obsession with mass shootings when they're a terrible thing.

But they are such a tiny, tiny part of the problem. The idea that that's all we kind of talk about and discuss about it is just weird. But also the idea that in every profession, when anytime people have an area of specialized knowledge, they're usually invested in making sure that not any kind of, if you're a doctor, you're powerfully invested in the idea that you got to go to med school before you can practice medicine. You don't want any Yahoo practice, you know, like you.

But gun owners will simultaneously go on and on and on legitimately about how much knowledge you need to handle a gun safely and fire it accurately. And at the same time, they're like, but everyone should be able to get one drop of a hat. That's just dumb. It should be the gun owners who are supporting restrictions around gun use because they're the ones who are aware of how legitimately difficult it is to handle a gun safely and appropriately. I don't get it. I don't understand why gun control isn't being pushed by gun lovers. Like I said, I'm a big runner.

I'm the last person who says everyone should run. Running's hard. You gotta take it seriously. You gotta know what you're doing. You gotta like, you know, prepare for it. I don't say you have a right, everyone should have a right to run 10 miles in the morning. Maybe gun lovers are in a bubble because they know how to use their guns. They, you know, they go to the gun range all the time. People around them probably know how to use the gun to go to the gun range. So in their mind around them probably know how to use the gun and go to the gun range. So in their mind, they're just assuming if you have a gun, you know how to use it.

You know how to. I think that's probably maybe they... I spent one of the episodes, I go down to North Carolina and I hang out with this guy, Greg Wallace. He loves guns. He does competitive shooting. And he gave me a kind of... We fired an assault rifle and he gave me a kind of, we fired an assault rifle

and he gave me a kind of tutorial on how to do it. And just from spending an afternoon with him, that's the thing I came away from. It's like, you need,

it's hard. You have a, there's a lot of, and you know, the amount of caution he took, like when I, when I picked up the assault rifle

and picked it up the wrong way, he was like, you know, like don't, you know, like he took, like when I picked up the assault rifle and picked it up the wrong way, he was like, ah, you know, like don't, you know, like, it was a real kind of, it was fascinating just to see how in their own little world, they're super cautious around. How'd you feel when you fired that thing though? How'd you feel, Malcolm, huh? Did you get a rush?

Jesus. How did I get a rush? This is the first time I've ever picked up a gun in my life. Yeah. fire that thing though. How'd you feel Malcolm? Huh? You get a rush? Jesus. Did I get a rush? The first time I've ever picked up a gun in my life. Yeah. Uh, first time, first time. Okay. I was in a shooting range in rural North Carolina. I had an AR-15 and, uh, I felt, first of all, I was, it's really loud. You know how to head? I had things on, but it was still loud. Still loud.

It was creepy at first, and then you can't help it. You get a little rush. Yeah. It's like these things are big and heavy. Yeah. Like the idea that you have in your hands something that you could kill someone with is just strange if you've never held a gun have you have i shot a gun yeah i never shot an assault rifle though like an ar-15 or anything like that yeah but you know the handgun yeah like a little like a little one a little i mean we got a 357 at the house and a glock at the house

oh okay okay okay what are your thoughts on assault rifles now after using one? Well, I did that episode, and it was the one that got the most mail, basically saying I think assault rifle bans are a dumb idea. And they're dumb because they're not actually banning assault rifles. An assault rifle is a kind of platform, and what assault rifle bans do is identify if you accessorize your gun with a certain number of cosmetic things, we think that's bad and we want to ban them. But they, it's a semi-automatic rifle with a large magazine. Those are, you know, those are, you can still, they're still legal in many states that have assault rifle bans.

So it's like kind of weird that why are we identifying a class of weapons because they look ugly and saying we should... But the other thing is like... What's the amount of damage they can do? Well, they can't do... Because most mass shootings are used by the SEC. I know, but we're not banning... So rifles are a very...

Semi-automatic rifles are a very lethal weapon. We're not banning semi-automatic rifles within an assault rifle ban. We're not banning semi-automatic rifles within the assault rifle ban. We're banning a tiny subcategory that happen to have a certain number of cosmetic features that we don't like. So it's like, we're not solving the problem. And then I sat down with this trauma surgeon in D.C.

who had studied mass shootings. And he's like, what you're worried about is mass shootings. Actually, the most lethal weapon used in mass shootings are handguns. Because a handgun gets into the, sort of, grizzly, but you, with an assault rifle, you shoot once, the person goes down. And, because it's, boom, right? So, with a handgun, you shoot once, and sometimes the person doesn't go down. So, you're more likely to be shot twice if you're shot by a handgun, you shoot once, and sometimes the person doesn't go down. So you're more likely to be shot twice if you're shot by a handgun.

And the guy gets up closer and shoots you a second time, and he's more likely to kill you. So you're more likely to die from a handgun than an assault rifle in a mass shooting. Which just says, by the way, all we're saying is guns are dangerous. They're used in different ways. And to have as a, to spend all of our time and energy trying to remove one tiny subcategory of guns from the equation in the hopes it's going to change things,

it's just dumb. It's just like the problem is much bigger than that. You're not solving it by, by, by, by, you know, by taking a pair of scissors

to one page of the gun manual. So what is the solution to that? Like how did gun control in America get so broken? How do we fix it? He's from Canada, so he can't tell us anything about America. He's done a lot of research. When I talked to that guy, Abdullah Price, in the last of the episodes,

which by the way, one of the most, so I sat with that guy, Abdullah Price, in the last of the episodes, which, by the way, one of the most, so I sat with this, so he's a guy, he's in his 30s, played football, big, incredibly moving and powerful and thoughtful guy. Just say he's sexy, Malcolm. First of all, that is not what you're going to bring into this. Malcolm is not going to say that man was sexy. I talked to this big, sexy football player.

It's okay, man. No, no, he's not going to say that. I just knew when I was like, I'm going to describe him, I'm just going to get in trouble. Is he a handsome man? Yes, he is a handsome man, Charlemagne, if that's what you're asking.

And so my point is, he's talking about, and one of the things he does is he goes into elementary and middle schools in the south side of Chicago and hands out first responder kits, teaches the kids how to administer first aid if they're the first, because it's a reality. That's terrible. That kind of, I mean, it's just, what he was the first because it's a reality no that's terrible that kind of i mean it's just what he was describing that it's just like it's so heartbreaking and

for children what he would say is and what he talked about was you know a lot of gun violence is kids is is is is disputes between young people who don't know how to resolve their disputes peaceably. And you have to teach people a kind of an emotional vocabulary that allows them to have an argument without pulling a gun. But that's a whole other six-part series. Now you're talking about mental health

and social and emotional learning. Yeah. Maybe if we just put the gun control conversation on hold and said, all right, we'll get back to this when the time comes. It's important, but it's not as important as what you're just talking about. You've got kids, you know, Abdullah Price was talking about in the neighborhoods where he works, it's, you know, we're talking about multi-generational beefs.

You shot my cousin, so I shot your brother. You have to unravel that cycle. And that takes a lot of time and a lot of care and a lot of attention. And if we just focus on trying to unravel that for a while and see if we make any headway, that strikes me as being a really productive way to kind of attack the problem. Yeah. You know why that makes so much sense?

It makes so much sense because you probably can get people to move on that faster than you ever will get them to move on actual gun control. Yeah. I don't see any reason why people on both sides of the political fence couldn't rally around that. Why do we pick a – we choose a fight that we know is the most divisive fight we can possibly have and that has zero chance of getting anywhere. We're not getting anywhere with the court we have with gun control. It's not happening.

So why do we just bang our heads against the wall? Why don't we do something that would have more effective yeah can i pivot a little bit if you don't want to talk about it i understand but you know the whole palestine israel conflict yeah is that what what do you think the larger global ramifications of what we're watching right now will be ultimately i haven't i have no idea i, that's so beyond my, that's not something that I've ever, it's just all I know is that it's heartbreaking.

That's all. Yeah, definitely. Absolutely. Six part series. Tell us what, you got a book, you still working on the next book too? Well, now I'm working, I put my Tom Bradley book on hold

and which turned into a book about anger and all this kind of stuff. So it's not about Tom Bradley anymore? Well, I got interested in some. It is. But what I got really interested in is. He got mad. I got interested in what strategies are available to the angry. Because it turned into this book about what it meant to be

black if you lived in Los Angeles in the 30s and 40s. And this group of black guys who all go to UCLA in the 30s, Tom Bradley, Jackie Robinson, Wally Strode, a bunch of people who go on to have really big career. Wally Strode was a huge actor in Hollywood. A guy named Washington, who was a big NFL player. And they're like the only black people on the UCLA campus. They all live in South Central. And they all have different strategies

for dealing with the fact, you know, they were all on the UCLA football team and the big game was against USC and they got hung in it. Basically, a fraternity on the USC campus has a mock lynching of the black players on the UCLA team,

and they hang them in effigy outside the frat just before the big game between UC. This is what's going on in their lives. Right. And so I've turned the book into an examination of what are the strategies available to you if you're in that kind of situation? They're angry, right? As you would be if you grew up in LA, black in the 1930s. And each of them, of the people I'm profiling, has a different strategy for dealing with that anger. You know, there's a one path is confrontation.

I just start shouting. And there's a, one path is confrontation. I just start shouting. And there's a woman living in South Central, it's an incredible woman living in South Central who I write about, who's, that's her, that's what she does. She just stands up and starts shouting until people, and then the other path is the Tom Bradley path, where you take all of your anger and you button it up.

And he never, this is a man, first black mayor of Los Angeles, endures the most unspeakable kind of racist experiences, trying to come to political power in LA, and never once lets on that he's been affected by it. I mean, he just is this serene, and that's another strategy, is you just pretend it doesn't exist, right? You turn yourself into someone else.

That's not good either, though, right? Because it's like you're suppressing it. Well, they're all, what I'm interested in is, there's no perfect strategy. Each strategy has a set of costs and benefits, and it's up to the person to figure out what the right, right? And, you know, everyone, not everyone, you guys have all, you've all done this in your life, right? You have sat down on some level, maybe not consciously, but you've sat down and you've figured out how am I going to deal with the baggage I'm carrying,

right? And you've made compromises that, you know, to yourself, to those around you. Other times you've said, I'm not going to compromise. I'm going to be, right?

That's the, I want to describe that process because it strikes me as being anyone who has ever been on the wrong side of a power equation has had to go through that process. Everyone. Right. And I want to figure out, I want to kind of write a kind of guidebook to how you do that.

But you know, it's interesting what you said. You talked to any psychiatrists and therapists because before I started going to therapy, I would just either suppress like those emotions are conformed, you know, in a lot of cases. And that was actually a big life lesson that I learned dealing with an individual like, you know, I'm never compromising myself for anyone. So did you talk to any psychiatrists and therapists or people that did the work? I mean, that book, I'm only halfway. OK, so I'm getting. Yeah, I'm only halfway. Okay, good. So I'm getting, yeah, I'm getting, I'm, right now I'm just doing the part where I'm describing the,

like I have a whole chapter on the, the whole group of, there's a whole group of comics, comedians living in South Central in the 30s and 40s and who are allowed to be in movies in LA only, of course, if they conform to a certain stereotype, right?

There's the guy, Jack Benny's sidekick. What's his name? I've forgotten. Who has to play this kind of stupid butler, right? And he has little opportunities to kind of fight back, but he has to. Those are the rules. You want to be. A certain model to be in.

You've got to. That kind of women- Eddie Anderson. Eddie, yeah. I have a whole thing, a whole chapter on Eddie Anderson. Fascinating. Fascinating. He's the mayor of Central Avenue.

He's this huge figure in South Central in the 30s and 40s. And known, he's one of the most... He might be one of the most famous black men in America. If you went to a white person from Iowa in 1947 and said, you know, name three black people, he would be one of them. It'd be him and Joe Louis and, you know. So he's a huge figure. We've forgotten him now, but he's a huge figure.

So I tell his, one of the chapters is about his extraordinary story. That's interesting because some people will say that that hasn't changed. Like, you know, you still, if you're black, you still have to play a certain role, whether it's in hip hop, movies, or whatever, in order to have success. Yeah. Oh, yeah. Yeah.

That's absolutely true. Well, listen, I know Malcolm Gladwell has to leave. The six-part series, Revisionist History, is out right now. I love Revisionist History. I haven't gotten a chance to listen to the six-part series, but I reference your McDonald's episode quite often.

Quite often. But thank you for coming, my brother. Thank you. Thank you so much, guys. It's Malcolm Gladwell. It's The Breakfast Club. Wake that ass up in the morning. The Breakfast Club. Hey, guys. I'm Kate Max. You might know me from my popular online series, The Running Interview Show, where I run with celebrities, athletes, entrepreneurs, and more. After those runs, the conversations keep going. That's what my podcast, Post Run High, is all about. It's a

chance to sit down with my guests and dive even deeper into their stories, their journeys, and the thoughts that arise once we've hit the pavement together. Listen to Post Run High on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Had enough of this country? Ever dreamt about starting your own? I planted the flag. This is mine. I own this. It's surprisingly easy.

55 gallons of water, 500 pounds of concrete. Or maybe not. No country willingly gives up their territory. Oh my God. What is that? Bullets. Listen to Escape from Zaka Stan. We need help!

That's Escape from Z-A-Q-A-S-T-A-N on the iHe I heart radio app, Apple podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Hello, my undeadly darlings. It's Teresa, your resident ghost host.

And do I have a treat for you? Haunting is crawling out from the shadows and it's going to be devilishly good. We've got chills, thrills, and stories that'll make you wish the lights stayed on. So join me, won't you? Let's dive into the eerie unknown together. Sleep tight, if you can.

Listen to Haunting on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Hey, what's up? This is Ramses Jha. And I go by the name Q Ward. And we'd like you to join us each week for our show, Civic Cipher. That's right. We discuss social issues, especially those that affect black and brown people, but in a way that informs and empowers all people. We discuss everything from prejudice to politics to police violence, and we try to give you the tools to create positive change in your home, workplace, and social circle. We're going to learn how to become better allies to each other, so join us each Saturday for Civic Cipher on the iHeartRadio

app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Daphne Caruana Galizia was a Maltese investigative journalist who, on October 16th, 2017, was assassinated. Crooks everywhere unearthed the plot to murder a one-woman WikiLeaks. She exposed the culture of crime and corruption that were turning her beloved country into a mafia state. Listen to Crooks Everywhere on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.