The Breakfast Club - INTERVIEW: Mara Brock Akil Talks ‘Forever,' Black Love, Lessons From Storytelling, Girlfriends’ Movie + More

Episode Date: June 4, 2025

Today on The Breakfast Club, Mara Brock Akil Talks ‘Forever,' Black Love, Lessons From Storytelling, Girlfriends’ Movie. Listen For More!YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@BreakfastClubPower1051FMSee omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

This is an iHeart Podcast. I'm Andrea Gunning, host of the podcast Betrayal. Police Lieutenant Joel Kern used his badge to fool everyone. Most of all, his wife, Caroline. He texted, I've ruined our lives. You're going to want to divorce me. How far would he go to cover up what he'd done? The fact that you lied is absolutely horrific.

And quite frankly, I question how many other women are out there that may bring forward allegations in the future. Listen to Betrayal on the iHeartRadio app, Apple podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. The Made for This Mountain podcast exists to empower listeners to rise above their inner struggles and face the mountain in front of them. So during Mental Health Awareness Month, tune into the podcast, focus on your emotional well-being, and then climb that mountain. You will never be able to change or grow through the thing that you refuse to identify, the thing that you refuse to say, hey, this is my mountain. This is the struggle. Listen to Made for This Mountain on the iHeartRadio app, Apple podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Have you ever thought about going voiceover? I'm Hope Woodard, a comedian, creator, and seeker of male validation. I'm also the girl behind voiceover the movement that exploded in 2024 You might hear that term and think it's about celibacy

But to me voiceover is about understanding yourself outside of sex and relationships. It's flexible It's customizable and it's a personal process Singleness is not a waiting room. You are actually at the party right now. Let me hear it. Listen to voiceover on the iHeartRadio app, Apple podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. The Medal of Honor is the highest military decoration in the United States. Recipients have done the improbable, the unexpected, showing immense bravery and sacrifice in the name of something much bigger than themselves. This medal is for the men who went down that day.

On Medal of Honor, Stories of Courage, you'll hear about these heroes and what their stories tell us about the nature of bravery. Listen to Medal of Honor on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Wake that ass up early in the morning. The Breakfast Club. Morning everybody, it's DJ Envy, Just hilarious, Charlamagne the guy, we are the Breakfast Club. Lola Rosa is here as well and we got a special guest in the building. The legendary.

That's right, Ms. Mara Croc-Akill. Welcome. Thank you. Good morning. Good morning, good morning. Nice to be here. How are you? Bless Black and Holly favorite. How's your energy? It's great. Okay.. Good morning, good morning. Nice to be here, how are you? Bless Black and Holly family. How's your energy? It's great. Okay. I'm really, I'm floating.

How does it feel to have yet another hit TV show? Another. Another hit TV show. But this is global. This is like the first time I have been on a stage this big. Normally my shows are on up and coming networks. Um, so I'm, I feel like an ingenue actually. I feel, I feel both veteran and both, um, I'm also in awe, you know, it's just this

dude, an idea is a global conversation. That is kind of, I'm, I'm sitting in that mostly my career. I've been thinking about a global conversation. That is kind of, I'm sitting in that. Mostly my career I've been thinking about a national conversation. But this is a global one. And I've always known that our stories are global, but for it to be a reality is pretty special. And another hit, right?

To be at it. 30 years in the game. 30 years in the game. I love it. But let's talk about it. Of course for people that are just tuning in the game. I love it. Let's talk about it. Of course for people that are just tuning in you created shows like Girlfriends, The Game, Being Mary Jane, you've written on the Jamie Foxx Show and so many others. But this one is Moesha.

So many. South Central. Oh, see. So many. I see you. This one's on Netflix. Yeah. Yeah.

This one's on Netflix. Yep. So how did the next Netflix play come together? We're doing forever. What a deal. You know Yeah. This one's on Netflix. Yeah. So how did the Netflix play come together? We're doing forever. What a deal. You know, my career did garner me a really wonderful deal. Out of that deal, I did Stamped from the Beginning. I hope you guys all saw that amazing documentary that Roger Ross Williams directed, but about Dr. Ibrahim Kendi's work about the racist lies. I mean mean the myths of racism. That was my first offering in my deal

and this was the second. It took a minute, strikes and executive changes and whatnot, it took a minute to get this one out but it was special from the beginning. I met Judy Bloom, somebody else's, come on, come on. Icon, two of my favorite storytellers coming together. I know, come on, I mean, and that's God. First of all, I didn't even realize that the book

was gonna be 50 years old by the time we released. It was not even in my thinking of that time. Yeah, it came out in 75. 75, but yeah, it took us a minute to get it out, but we got it out, and so when Netflix heard that Yeah, it took us a minute to get it out, but we got it out. And so when Netflix heard that, that my take on her story, she was about, they were like, we are about that too.

So it was a beautiful synergy. One thing I will say about Netflix, when they're behind something, they are behind it completely supported, resourced. I think that's what's important to me in this, this moment of this hit show is that it was my vision was supported financially and also episode five we went to the Vineyard. Taking your crew across the country in the middle of production, that is another level

of support and a place that the infrastructure is not there. Thank you so much. Yeah. So it was, it was amazing to feel like, wow, I'm supported. I got money to have the vision that I want and to get the people that I need, the collaborators. It's been amazing. So short answer is Judy Blume is Mara Bacchicale. Netflix wanted all of that.

When we approach Netflix, do you approach it differently? Because what a lot of the shows that we spoke about is you have to wait for next week, right? So it's almost like you can't wait. You schedule it. You write it down. Well, Netflix, a lot of times, it's a lot differently because everything is right there smackin'.

You could binge watch it. Yeah. At your own leisure, yeah. Correct. When, you know, I think that's what I'm thankful for, to know how to make television and be able to stretch the canvas differently given different circumstance.

And so my job is to keep those, keep you on those eight episodes. I learned that back in the day when we used to have to do cliffhangers for the season, like you know, during Girlfriends, or even Moesha, we had to get you watching for the, you know, for the end of the season, or if there was a break in the middle of the season.

So I learned how to craft that. Shout out to my mentor. I'm always going to shout out my mentor, Ralph Farquhar. I learned how to make TV that way, how to keep you engaged, how to keep that binge going. So I understood that, but it was also sort of just a fun way to play in their sandbox. How do you win with their rules? And so that was for me as a creative is wonderful, but there's like that athlete spirit in me,

like I want the ball. Like all right, I want the ball, let's go. So that was fun to figure out. You said Judy Blume was your first permission slip as a storyteller. Oh my goodness. So how does your inner child feel knowing that you have done such justice to one of her iconic work?

Well how does my inner, she feels on Cloud 9. She is twirling, she is cartwheel, I used to cartwheel back in the day. I could cartwheel, backbend, all the things. She's doing all of that. I'm very proud of myself. It was interesting because my body of work, or I approach my work, I don't't ever I never saw myself as needing IP. I'm like I'm full of

stories I'm full of original stories so but when the opportunity to reimagine one of her books there was no thinking my hand just went up and I feel like it was a little protective as well it was was like, I want to protect that story. I want to be able to tell that story. But my little girl is like, she's cabbage patching. Does she feel like she made it? Do y'all feel like you made it, Marlon? She's felt like she's made it a long while ago. I think this is different in that it's a full circle moment.

I often say that you become a writer as a reader first. And so I used to get lost in the pages of Judy Blume. And so for me to be just the divinity of it, like the divineness of it, that I would come full circle 50 years later, like those kinds of things, right? It's almost like it was written for me.

It was written for me and Judy. Matter of fact, I'm gonna get a chance to meet her personally. I'm so excited. You going down to Key West? Yeah, yeah I am. Okay. Yeah, yeah. You lived this life once and I'm gonna live in that dream.

So yeah, I'm excited to meet her. We met at the time on Zoom and talked on the phone and emailed, but just to meet her and say thank you and have her sign my book, I'm just, that 12 year old girl is running to Key West. I've done it a couple times. Just to go meet Miss Blue. Absolutely. I love it. Yeah.

What I really would love is for people to honor more of their story. The craftsmanship, sitting in the chair and writing. That woman sat in the chair and wrote. I mean, it's like she never got out of the chair. Just writing and that, and what it would do, just someone sharing a story, just my own testimony, is it ignited something in me. And I think that even the feedback I'm getting from the show,

not just the show, but the shows I've had in my career, it has ignited other storytellers. And I want us to do more by that. We have so many stories in us that will die in us if we don't even start crafting them and writing them down. And I appreciate like social media and we can do things, video and content. I get that too, and that's a beautiful expression.

But to literally craft story from a writing perspective, to have those layers of theme and complexity and Understanding that her book is still Through through this show now is still It still lives it's universal it's it's it's it's forever but up bump It's forever. Ba dum bum.

See what I did there? The original book was written in the 70s. Yeah, 75. Why did you choose to specifically set this story in 2018? Well, I had to look at what would make it fresh today and what to maybe have to look at what where the kids are today. And Judy and I talked about, well, they know a lot about sex. Like there's so much, you can just hit Twitter,

hit whatever, there's no Twitter anymore, you get the point. But intimacy, connection, those things, I think we're further away, even though we're more technologically advanced, we don't have, though these tools are meant to connect us, we are using them in very disconnecting ways. And I think that to bring the phone into the conversation,

one is an opportunity to talk about something unique to this culture. I mean, excuse me, culture, but this generation, excuse me. What it is doing to them personally, emotionally, their emotional self, their, their, and then how it's even affecting their physical self and then affecting their future. And that's what the book was about. How do we explore our emotional self, our physical self while maintaining a healthy future? And this was my conversation today. Also between, I also want to talk about in the black family

by changing the white family to black, it allowed me to also talk about a time that I think is very important for us to document between Trayvon Martin's murder and George Floyd's murder. We as black people, we as black families, as mothers and fathers, we were screaming into a vacuum about the fear over our children. And there was no amount of fancy zip codes or education

that can save your child, you know, and that was scary. And I wanted, I needed a place for me as a mother to release all of that fear. And then also then look at how much we are out of love, but we are raising our children from that fear. That's right. And how that is hurting our children and their inability to have a natural rite of passage to explore again their emotional self, their emotional maturity, their physical self,

their physical maturity to have sex or not have sex, who to have it with, what's the right conditions, all of those choices that they're supposed to be making right now to protect the beautiful future. And that's another thing, we need to open up some space because our children also need a future. And it's tough out there and I couldn't imagine being them today thinking about,

when people, what do you wanna be when you grow up? Well, what's out there? And so, and we adults need to get it together. And so this is a part of my offering. When the book, so back in the 70s it was controversial because of the things that it explored. Today it's not controversial because we are so open like what you talk about.

When you were crafting like what the storyline would be and how you would redo it, were there things that you were like, I wanna make sure I get to or make sure I get in this storyline? Because you also made it feel closer to home for like black teens. Like, now forever feels like it's our story, but you had to do it a different way.

You know what I think is controversial? Black male vulnerability. It's just there's no room for it. I think there's no images for it. And yet when I'm looking in the world within my own children, their friends, and the community beyond that, a lot of boys, and more specifically black boys,

they're not all that hard. They don't have any room for their complexity. They don't have any room for their complexity. They don't have any room for their feelings. It's always funny to me, especially when the group of boys that I'm around, they're all privileged, they live a great life. Time to take a picture, they were laughing two seconds ago, you try and take the picture and then they get

that stoic face. And we're like, what you mean mugging for? And you realize how much that's imparted on young black boys all the time about what is manly. What are those images of what a man is? And I wanted to make room for the real reflection. I'm actually looking at the real thing. It's just what gets on that bigger screen

and how important it is. I know we talk about representation matters. That's why it matters. You got to see yourself in order to decide, is that beautiful? Is that how I want to look? You know, is that right? Is that tight? You know, I can't see it.

And I think I also think boys and working on this project, it made me look at something I hadn't looked at before. I think boys are getting their heart broken a lot sooner. I felt so bad for Justin the whole time. Why? Because I just felt like some of the things that they were experiencing, like I mean I remember being that age

and going through my first like relationship things, but I don't know, just felt like a lot of times the characters, they were yearning for this space of like, I don't know, to just be okay and then things would be going good and then something else would happen. It'd be something small. It'd be like for Keisha, the video gets sent to her phone and she's finally in this relationship.

You know what I mean? Things were just happening. I'm like, they ain't no kids. Why can't they just be and not have to deal with these things? It's life. Yeah, it's life and it's also technology. We got some freedoms without,

that they're not afforded. And so that's what I wanna talk about. It's like, are we making any room for them? Like one of the things that I love, when we, every production meeting, I said we're making an epic and intimate love story within a love letter to Los Angeles, right? And what that meant to me is that we need to see them

in scope, in scale, in epic. I need to see them, their bodies in the space, in Los Angeles. What that means is that it's a feeling, cinematically, that I'm making you feel that they belong here, and when they belong here, they belong to us. And so you engage with our children differently, psychologically, emotionally.

Those things are important in our image on the details. The details on anyone makes them feel more human to you. So I want to make just room for their humanity so that we think about the measures around technology. We think about what the rules are for these kids. I mean, these kids are being told today that you make one false move, you won't get a scholarship.

I mean, come on. It's the truth. They follow them for the rest of their lives. For the rest of their lives. Which is sad. And that, where is any room for, there's no humanity in that. That's how I felt.

Maybe that was the, Yes. At the humanity part, I'm like, yo, she's young, she made a mistake. Yeah. Now it's following her and it's like, he's in love and he just doesn't know how to navigate it and now he feels like he's not a good person or not a good person. He doesn't feel like he can win the girl in the beginning of things.

And I felt bad for that. Like, but you know what? Back in the day, back in the day, boys had to walk across the room to ask you to dance. And that was tough. And that was, have you ever, have you ever done that? Of course. Yeah. How did you ever done that? Of course. Yeah, how did, did you ever get rejected? No.

I've never gotten rejected. No. He was like, he was like, he was like, he was like, he was like, he was like, he was like, he was like, he was like, he was like, he was like, he was like, he was like, he was like,

he was like, he was like, he was like, he was like, he was like, he was like, he was like, he was like, he was like, he was like, he was like, he was like, he was like, he was like, he was like, he was like,

he was like, he was like, he was like, he was like, he was like, he was like, he was like, he was like, he was like, he was like, he was like, he was like, he was like, he was like, he was like, he was like,. Because remember, it wasn't, you know, back then it was a party and everybody standing on the wall. Yep. And you have, like you said, you have to walk across. And if I knew this person wasn't feeling me, didn't wake me, didn't have a crush on me,

didn't write me a letter. Didn't hold a stare. Didn't hold a stare. I wasn't going. But if I knew that got that little stare, that little smile, I was gonna go. So it was just the Dominican girls. But seeing all of those social cues that you have to learn in real time, we're not learning that.

There's no space for that. So I'm advocating for, I want the kids to be back outside. It's even sad we shot on Fairfax Avenue, right? It's a ghost town right now. But back in 2018 where it was depicted, that was a place for them to be. But where are kids allowed to be? But that's why I love the scenes at Martha's Vineyard.

I love the scenes at the prom. Oh God. Especially at the prom, because I feel like in that moment, Justin was, everybody talks about he's chasing the young lady. To me, it felt like he was chasing his blackness. Yes. Yes.

That's what it felt like to me. Thank you for saying that. Yeah. You know, one of the things I was trying to say, trying to keep our children safe, sometimes we're isolating them He had a pretty prison, but it was up on a hill Isolated and he's looking for more but I can also understand Don

She's so scared to put him outside, you know, I'm also scared. Is he gonna measure up to where they are? You know saying she's probably not saying that but that's psychologically it's kind of right. It's under there But fun fact I was so proud as a producer to put all those black and brown kids taking over the Santa Monica Pier. I don't, you know, I found one location, I think that's, I think the last time someone took over the pier at that scale was Tom Cruise.

I was like, okay. But that means something to me. That means something that we, how we take up the space, the epicness and the beauty of us. These kids are looking like this all over our country. And we see it on Instagram or TikTok or things like that. But to put it on that scale, that level of beauty, Anthony Hemingway directed his butt off in that,

the kids were just beautiful. our costume designers amazing our production design was amazing our cinematography was amazing you know I'm saying we had the we had thing lit up I was on cloud nine that day that we shot and we got out of there safe and sound that's also important but it's our kids having space in the world, chasing themselves, figuring out who they are, including of their blackness, including of what they like, just who they are, even the making room for,

I know I get a lot of comments around, wow, he likes Naruto, yeah, a lot of black kids love Naruto. We're a part of the world, so that was fun. And as much as it's a story about the kids, it's a story about the adults, right? Like the way Judy Blume made people feel seen at 13, it feels to me like you're making us feel seen

at 40 something, 50 something. So what do those ages need that nobody's writing about? I'm gonna keep saying this over and over. Just more complexity, more of our human side. Like I've said before, I don't really believe in positive images. I think they can be just as damaging as negative images. What do you mean?

Expound on it. Yeah, break that down. Because, okay, so the negative image is a product of a lie, going back to the documentary. So the negative image is a product of a lie, going back to the documentary. It's the perpetuating the lies and the myths of us. That's been out there. So a lot of black people want a positive image because they wanna rewrite the wrong

of somebody else's view of me. But what that does as an artist, it keeps me behind the eight ball. I'm chasing up and trying to clean up somebody else's view of me. But what that does as an artist, it keeps me behind the eight ball. I'm chasing up and trying to clean up somebody else's mess. I'm from the Zora Neale Hurston School of Thought. I know my people, I see my people. I wanna be able to talk about them fully and in the spectrum of our humanity,

there is light and dark. We are not perfect. To be perfect, that's just as hard to be perfect as it is to be bad. Like I want the spectrum of my humanity. I wanna be able to make a mistake and have my village patch me up and put me back out there. I deserve that, you deserve that, we deserve that.

And so I want the spectrum of who I am. And sometimes I'm, you know, sometimes I'm not great, and sometimes I am, in the same day, in the same hour and I deserve that sort of exploration of who I am as a human being. And I give that to my characters. I think Dawn for instance, people, there's a lot of conversation about her as a mother. But that black mother has raised a lot of kids

to get them, to keep them alive. Does she deserve looking at herself? Yes. Hi, my name is Mara Brackett-Kill and I'm a former Don. I put my pain on the screen. I think, you know, I wanted to, out of love, I'm trying to overprotect my children. And rightfully so.

Yeah, but then you end up, well, she ended up raising her child out of fear and not love. And that's a question I always ask, because I feel like my father raised me out of fear and not love. And that's a question I always ask because I feel like my father raised me out of fear and not love, not meaning that he didn't love me. Yes, oh, they love, and the kids know that. The kids know that they love, but it still feels constrained. But that dynamic was amazing though.

The way you had Dawn being the overprotective parent who was raising her son out of fear and not love, but then the father, Wood Harris' character was high emotional IQ, very know, very vulnerable, soft with his son in a way that we don't really see on TV, especially between black men, period. I thought that was incredible. Thank you.

I really, first of all, shout out to Wood Harris and Karen Pittman. They killed those roles. You couldn't have casted it any better. No. Oh my God. I mean, as soon as we met Lovey and Michael and put them together, it was like, come on,

chemistry off the jump. Their chemistry was amazing. Karen and Woods. I did want to depict two types of black families that we recognize, right? But speaking about the Edwards for a moment, it just shows you the need to have two partners in a home. Just the balance of it all.

I think that Eric could be that because he has such a solid foundation in Dawn and vice versa. You know what I'm saying? I feel like his emotional maturity is how much he is loved also by her. And so, and he can allow for her fear in a moment like this. Keep in mind, he's also aware of her worries

about her children wearing a hoodie. So he understands Anne, boys, and he understands how assertive she is, and he knows all that stuff about her. And that's a lot of my backstory when I'm writing those characters, and how much, and it is irritating in parenting when you have different approaches

at a very crucial moment when now the kids can talk back. You know, being when they're younger, it's a little, you know, it's a little easier on the parenting different dynamics sometimes. But the stakes being high, right? These children are about to be out of the house. Those things get a little bit, you know, we all react a little differently. Well, talk about the importance of that. I think we miss that a lot.

We've seen it a lot more with my parents. I'm Andrea Gunning, host of the podcast, Betrayal. Police Lieutenant Joel Kern used his badge to fool everyone. Most of all, his wife, Caroline. He texted, I've ruined our lives. You're going to want to divorce me. Caroline's husband was living another life behind the scenes. He betrayed his oath to his family and to his community.

She said you left bruises, pulled her hair, that type of thing. No. How far would Joel go to cover up what he'd done? You're unable to keep track of all your lies and quite frankly, I question how many other women may bring forward allegations in the future. This season of Betrayal investigates one officer's decades of deception. Lies that left those closest to him questioning everything they thought they knew. Listen to Betrayal on the iHeartRadio app, Apple podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

Made for This Mountain is a podcast that exists to empower listeners to rise above their struggles, break free from the chains of trauma, and silence the negative voices that have kept them small. Through raw conversations, real stories, and actionable guidance, you can learn to face the mountain that is in front of you. You will never be able to change or grow through the thing that you refuse to identify. The thing that you refuse to say, hey, this is my mountain. This is the struggle.

This is the thing that's in front of me. You can't make that mountain move without actually diving into it. May is Mental Health Awareness Month, a time to conquer the things that once felt impossible and step boldly into the best version of yourself to awaken the unstoppable strength that's inside of us all. So tune into the podcast, focus on your emotional wellbeing, and climb your personal mountain. Because it's impossible for you to be the most authentic you. It's impossible for you to love you fully if all you're doing is living to please people. Your mountain is that. Listen to Made for This Mountain on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

Have you ever thought about going voiceover? I'm Hope Woodard, a comedian, creator, and seeker of male validation. To most people, I'm the girl behind voiceover, the movement that exploded in 2024. Voiceover is about understanding yourself outside of sex and relationships. It's more than personal, it's political, it's societal, and at times, it's far from what I originally intended it to be. These days, I'm interested in expanding what it means to be VoiceOver, to make it customizable

for anyone who feels the need to explore their relationship to relationships. I'm talking to a lot of people who will help us think about how we love each other. It's a very, very normal experience to have times where a relationship is prioritizing other parts of that relationship that are being naked together. How we love our family.

I've spent a lifetime trying to get my mother to love me, but the price is too high. And how we love ourselves. Singleness is not a waiting room. You are actually at the party right now. Let me hear it. Listen to VoiceOver on the iHeartRadio app, Apple podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

The Medal of Honor is the highest military decoration in the United States. Recipients have done the improbable, showing immense bravery and sacrifice in the name of something much bigger than themselves. This medal is for the men who went down that day. It's for the families of those who didn't make it. I'm JR Martinez.

I'm a US Army veteran myself, and I'm honored to tell you the stories of these heroes on the new season of Medal of Honor Stories of Courage from Pushkin Industries and I Heart Podcast. From Robert Blake, the first black sailor to be awarded the medal, to Daniel Daly, one of only 19 people to have received the Medal of Honor twice. These are stories about people who have distinguished themselves by acts of valor going above and beyond the call of duty. You'll hear about what they did, what it meant, and what their stories tell us about the nature of courage and sacrifice.

Listen to Medal of Honor on the iHeartRadio app, Apple podcast, or wherever you get your podcast. I think in these days, people don't, I don't think care to really respect a two parent household. It just seems like it's, it's very loose and people forget about what it means to kids and how important that is. Well, it's just another witness to the, you another witness to the witnessing in a lot of ways. Like, you know, one of the things I, in my own parenting, I used to get frustrated about why the kids

seem to act up a little bit more with me than they did with their father. And I was like, and I would complain to Selene all the time. And then later I realized, wow, what a privilege it is that your children are the safest with you to act the you know what out, you know? And you're just like, oh, I am the safest place in the world for them to be to just show they have.

My favorite place to be. And when you realize that honor, it's like, oh, okay, so then how can I just be fortified in order to take those moments, right? When I realized then, I feel like the father or the second parent is the first bridge to the outside world. And how needed that role is because they kind of,

they rise up a little bit, they act a little bit better for dad, you know, sometimes, in the case of our home, right? And so there's a bridge to that emotional maturity that they can move through. And then you drop them off at somebody's house and they come back, your kid is amazing. They did this, they did that. And you're like, oh, so you do know how to act.

Yeah. And you're like, also, you do know how to act. And that, that just rhythm. And then sometimes, you know, when I would be upset about things, I did have someone there to tell me, Mar, you're fine. They love you. You're, you're, you're, you're tripping a little bit. You're just relax a little bit. But that level of care, that level of the dance between the parents and the child is actually beautiful when you finally settle down into it and get into the roles. They're just roles and it's okay to lean into them. And then there's some times that I get things

that they don't get. I get not just the acting out. I get those intimate details. I get those real when they're really, really safe and they're telling you things. You're like, oh shoot, I'm trying to remember it so I can go back and tell. Don't tell dad. And some things you don't for a while. So my wife will say, well, I'm going to tell dad, but he's not going to judge you, not going to get in trouble. You know, some things. But I have the most difficult time with really

being understanding, right? And the reason being is similar to what you just said. Like, my wife will yell at my kids every day, right? For something small. I yell once a week, and it's the worst thing ever. And I'm like, well, mom yells at you'm like, well, mom doesn't yell like you. It's the same yell. But they feel like mom is that safe place.

They can open up, they can be comfortable. But dad is the barrier to the outside world. Barrier to the outside world and to see that. And then on on Keisha's side being, you know, having a single mother, right? How much you need a village. So she's very resourced and you know, the Edwards were more resourced financially. They got nannies and housekeepers and stuff. She's got the village. She's got cousins, she's got her

grandfather, her dad, and then we that was that was purposeful. We reveal that the dad's been around, we just he's not physically there all the time. And he's not carrying his complete share. But he is present. Your friend is an ass. I just want to say that. I didn't get to that part of the series yet. Your friend is an ass. I would just say that everybody is represented in this show.

What's the most uncomfortable truth you had to face the right forever, honestly? Just, you know, you'd like to think that you're an amazing mother. Just, you know, you'd like to think that you're an amazing mother. Just my shortcomings as a mother. I think when I acknowledged that, I think not only my children and then our community of children need more space, I had to look at where I was allowing that. I think that was uncomfortable. I think the other part was the depiction of getting into the nitty-gritty around these like the sex tapes and then the betrayals that

are happening with these children whose brains aren't fully defunctioned yet and making bad choices. I wanted to make sure I protected Keisha by also allowing the truth to be told, you know what I'm saying? And the way it is experienced and it can be the outcome. You know, even, and he made a horrible choice. I actually think Christian is not, I know he messed up royally, right?

But I also think that there's room for him. But I know that people are like, no. When he came back into this, I was like, why is he backing around and all these things and she's dealing with so much stuff right now. We don't make, and that's the other thing too, I've seen grown women not make great decisions. You know what I'm saying?

And we just put all this pressure, she's 16, you're young and we're trying to negotiate a lot. One of the things that I was trying to arc out with the Keisha character is what would it be like to be invisible at a PWI for most of your life? Not be reflected back that you are beautiful. And then the first time you get attention from the baller. You know what I'm saying? That who is, how are we making those decisions? How are we making those

choices to be seen, to be loved, to be cared for in a time when speaking about sexuality, especially that period and on, young women are saying, hey, I have sexual urges. I mean, girls need love too. They're the ones leading sometimes the blowjob conversation. They're like, we can do, so you're in this world that some things are really okay to do and just trying to negotiate all of these things.

She made a bad choice, he made a bad choice. negotiate all of these things. She made a bad choice, he made a bad choice, everybody's trying to impress somebody. These kids are managing a lot and then the public record of it and the forever record of it is very hard to live with. So I think that Faith, your question was one of the hardest things trying to be honest about the times and honest about why people are

making the choices that they are making. Even when you are, I know there's no, not a lot of compassion for the Christian character and I'm aware of that and that was very, that was a very tough choice to make, trying to make it as honest and grounded as possible and so that it can be the thing in the middle of this love story that they actually move through. What's great to me about Justin and Keisha is that they both come from love, they know it. It may be a little complicated,

it may not be ideal in times, but they know they're loved. And what's beautiful is to watch two young people choose love from having been loved. And I think what's beautiful for us as a community, especially family, especially as parents, is our ability to witness our children's choices while they're still in our home.

What's also happening in society, they're calling it late bloomer, I think that's the new term. I mean, young people are not even getting to feel desired until they're like, damn, they're 30. They're not even know like that reciprocal, like he like me, I like her. Or they gotta go outside. You gotta get off the social media for that, I think.

There's that too. And then, and that's the other layer we're putting on it. Go outside, but some of our kids and some, you know, that's, I wanted to talk about putting our kids in private white institutions. They go through most, there's a, there's an upside, right? You're trying to give them the best education, set them up for the best future. But the consequence a lot to that is they're not being seen. That social, they don't feel beautiful,

they don't feel handsome, they don't feel important. There's nothing marrying them back oftentimes. And that's what I feel like every- I'm sorry. So that, so when you say they have to get outside, they are outside. Doesn't matter. He should go to that party in the stairs and Justin tells her that she's beautiful or gorgeous

and she stops. And I'm like, I mean, but to your point of what you just said, they're like the only black kids. So for her to hear that from him, it probably was a whole different type of you're gorgeous or you're beautiful, whatever he had said to her. But I didn't even think about that point of it. I just thought it was just our first time interacting with a boy she liked. Yeah.

You know, yeah, there's not enough to sort of like, and it may be that maybe other kids like them, but maybe they're conditioned not to for race reasons or things of that nature. But I don't know that our kids sometimes they're outside, but they're not. Always connected. That's why we've spent a lot of time and money trying to get to the vineyard, but that's two weeks. Yeah, that's two weeks.

But it's funny that you said it. That's, you know, my daughter had the same problem and I wanted her to go to HBCU because of that. I went to Hampton and she didn't. She went to great schools, a lot of white kids, but nobody ever approached her. Yes. So she didn't feel beautiful.

She didn't feel away. And then when she- She'd be happy that nobody there approached her. Okay, Don would be very proud. No, but the problem is that she never felt that love. Exactly. So she was a little depressed. She felt but the problem is she never felt that love. Exactly. So she was a little depressed. She felt like she wasn't as beautiful as she is.

And then when she finally, when she went to NYU, there's no campus, so she felt even worse. And then COVID hit. So now, if you know Manhattan, Manhattan is your campus. So there is no campus. So you're going to venues and clubs with everybody. And that made me nervous because now she's not well equipped. And thank God she found somebody that did find it,

but at first- A black man too. Yeah, yes, yeah. But at first she was- No, you have to say that because y'all kids are going to very nice schools, so it might not always be a black man. Yeah, but you know, it was very difficult,

but I felt guilty about that for years because I was like, am I setting them up for failure? Am I setting them up for somebody not to love them? Because I went to a black school, I lived in a black neighborhood, so I'm seeing love all day long and she didn't have that feeling, she didn't have those friends, which is probably why she's so close to me now and I'm kind of like her best friend, like we go out and we do things. Like right now she just texts me, dad, what time are you coming home?

And she's 23 years old, but it's just it gave me a it gave me a guilt as a parent It's funny when you asked me what I have to face. That's that that's that there's I I know we make choices for a certain reason But you're thinking ooh what you know, my kids are fine But also that's what you move through when you're just trying to give them the world The best you can give them and you realize, oops, I missed that part. So they are getting outside and in LA specifically, you know, these kids don't want to drive.

Like I was at the DMV like at 9 a.m. on my birthday. They are not. So I mean that it's what it's. So how are they even seeing each other? That goes back to where are the spaces? I was at the skating rink. I was at this, there was, I was at the mall, I was here. That's not happening that much anymore.

And so that concerns me as well. So I'm hoping that some of these images on the show makes people wanna connect, get outside, be back outside. I think we need that. But you know the beauty of it is, is. Let me get a damn question. Mr. Kill, how the whole town knew about the sex tape, but he's your mother. Well, it's funny.

That's why we were in LA. That's why I did above the 10 and below the 10. Certain communities can know it and hold it and let you know it when they feel like it. But below the 10 she was able to keep that she was able to keep that going. And that shows the disconnect of the village. There was no parent from those communities that thought to call Shelley.

That is all you know that's the other thing I did make a commentary on that being a black parent sometimes in these schools you're you're a, but are you really a part of the community sometimes? And now I'm not saying it's a hundred percent like that, but sometimes that's where things do part, you know, when, when there is judgment or, or maybe not, maybe that's the wrong word. When there's not real community, when there's not real connection, when there's not real care that you're just seen as a part of this, like a sprinkle on top to our communities. And I say that in a generality, I think there's certainly some families who are figuring that

out but so it's not, please don't come from me that we can't figure that out. But what I've also noticed in these communities is sometimes, I mean in these worlds, because Shelly's from a different economic bracket, she's, she's lived, she doesn't live anywhere close to where these communities are. She's further away from the information. And it took Dawn to find out to bring it back to her. You know, Black Love has been so commodified lately, right? Like I feel like you see people doing the matching outfits on the Gram, or you know, they have black love weddings,

but what makes Forever feel real and not curated? I would ask you, what did you feel? That I actually saw myself, I saw me and my wife, I saw my teenage daughter and her friends. I saw how, I mean, it's little simple things like the conversations they was having at the cookout, like arguing about Kanye, they smoking the weed and then the kids come and they try to put it out,

but they dancing to their own music. I just felt like that's just real aesthetics. That's what real black love and black relationships look like and even things like, you know, not arguing or trying not to argue in front of the kids. Or even if you and your significant other disagree, not showing that in front of the child, it was times when Wood would be like, yo.

Yeah. And then she would know and then he would say what he said or vice versa. And I just thought that was Powerful. Yeah. Thank you. I just be paying attention to my own life my life around me just paying attention to us I think that's my job as a storyteller, you know Nina Simone says I'm here to reflect the times for me to look at us look at each other and find all those I know about your guilt Cuz I have it in I have my own you I'm saying I know about these those, I know about your guilt, because I have it in, I have my own,

you know what I'm saying? I know about these things. I know about how, be loved by a black man who can be very strong in his opinions, but it's not intimidating. Is that, you know, he might feel intimidated to the world, but he's not intimidating to me. That's right.

You know what I'm saying? I know there's love there. And also, and he knows I'm strong black, yep, a strong black woman. She's got an opinion. I'm going to say something. I can say it without losing my softness. I want your kids to bring home a black significant other. Yeah, yeah.

That was a big point on the show. Not because of racism, but because you want somebody that understands, you want somebody that's going to understand you and what you go through. And protect you. And protect you. And to protect you. That's what I mean. Think at the core of parenting, we want to love our kids and we want our kids loved and

we want them protected. We want them safe in the world. And so, you know, our history will tell us that it just seems like the odds are better that way. We, uh, Keisha's story, well, first to bring home the black significant other, when, uh, Dawn, she's upset. She, and Justin doesn't have his phone or whatever, but then at one point she's open to him

getting back into the world and having a phone or whatever because Wood Harris is like, you know, he met a girl, like, you know, ease up on him a little bit. When they had that conversation, when she finally sits down with him and she's trying to like get in his business about who he's dating and who the person is, as a mom, yourself personally, what did you put into that conversation that you do with your own kids when you're trying to enter into their world and like make sure

that even though they're at the white schools and all these things the blackness is still there without being like you got to be black because she was very like soft but she was also it was obvious she wanted him to be with a black girl. We just talk real you know we've always just been honest with our kids from the jump, from their level of understanding, you know what I'm saying? Using their language for their entry into the conversation. You know, being very honest, why? I mean, why I want you to be with a black woman? You know, even though that could be challenging, even though it's like, I can, yeah, you can date whoever you want to date. This is going to be your life, but I'm you to be with a black woman. Even though that could be challenging, even though it's like, yeah, you can date whoever you wanna date.

This is gonna be your life, but I'ma tell you why. And it just, why I think it's beautiful. I just think I just give my opinion, but make room for theirs. I think that's what's important, is for me to make room for theirs. So I use that, I use, you know, it's funny, because even the music, I think one of the things,

music is a big part of the show. And it's funny, in my car I let them have the aux. Why, because you wanna stay hip-hop. I just wanna know, I just wanna witness them. I wanna know what they're thinking about. So every like fourth, you know how like, if you get like a Spotify account and you don't, you do like the bass, you gotta get a commercial

like every four songs. So in my car, you get a lecture every four songs. And we used to debate about, okay, if I don't let you eat McDonald's all the time because of X, Y, Z, I need you to understand what these lyrics are doing, what you're eating. And so he's like, mom, it's just the beat, it's just the beat.

Well, no, it's more than the beat. So we would talk about that. They pushed back, cause we talked about misogyny and things like that. He's like, mom, it's just the beef. It's just the beef. Well, no, it's more than the beef. So we would talk about that. They pushed back. We talked about misogyny and things like that. He was like, well, the women, some of the female rockers I got, I said, yeah, misogyny is not particular to one group of people. Misogyny is misogyny. It's just like, you know, racism is racism.

So you get to talk to your kids and find out who they are and and give them your point of view while the world gives them gives them their point of view and So I think if you remain a trusted place, they are going to hear your voice God willing they will hear it before they get themselves in any kind of danger or you know that kind of thing but I feel like Just giving them my opinion. What emotional space? And then showing my life, you know what I'm saying? Living my life, you know?

Like even like with, even like your career paths or your future path, teaching them how I recognize that I'm a writer. I remind it, how did I know that I was a writer? How did I know what my path was? Teaching them those things. What it's gonna feel like in your body, what it's going to look like,

how you're gonna act, you know, when it's gonna take discipline, where's the sacrifice in these ideas? You know, what, even like, you know, yes, mom and dad, we made a lot of money, but understand, we're built on a legacy. Let's go back to grandma and granddad and grandparents. And let me tell you where you came from.

This is, you know, us owning more than one home is not new to this family. It happened over here. Understand that, understand. So you gotta give them history, opinion, knowledge, show it, be it. You know, even when we talk about dreams, I talk about my dreams.

I still got dreams. And so, and dreams take resources. So are you gonna hit that basketball train or not? Cause I could use that money. I want you to stay there for a second. Like how was your own evolution spiritually, emotionally as a mother, how did that influence the writing of Forever?

Oh, completely. So my writing styles, I tend to muse off of. I find I tell the truth through fiction. I'm a journalism major. I went to Northwestern. Shout out to Northwestern. I love Northwestern. One of the best choices I've ever made.

I went to Medill. So a lot of my approach to a story, I start to lock in on, there'll be a muse, and then I open up to see what is happening in the zeitgeist, what is happening at strong sociology classes, like where are we at as a people? That's how I started to figure out where the teenagers were,

where were we at today? So my children were my muse because that's what I was concerned about. So I came into this project just as a concerned mother. My guilt, am I doing this right? Am I given enough space? Did we pick the right schools for them? Did we set up our life in a way that's really going to support them as you start to think about the more complexity parts of their life as and life was changing fast because of technology as well right so that's where I was at the same time that the Judy

Bloom opportunity came and that's where my Big Bang happens and that's how I put those so I'm musing off of my own parenting, I started therapy because of parenting, I realized, you are an amazing mom, but I was like, I need to feel like a better mom, so let me start unpacking some of the things, all these sort of, all the things that therapists take you through. And so I started doing that and realizing

how I was parenting from a catastrophic place of fear, not just because of the times but just all the things and you realize okay I need to let this go in order to be a better mother and I think the best way I can do that is offer it in my work and mirror myself and allow and I think that's the power of storytelling. When you share your story or a testimony in church, it actually hits the hearts and souls and spirits of so many other people. But that's why sharing of the story is so important. It's not just about you.

It's about the collective us, right? And so bringing all those things to bear and having this amazing opportunity with the book to place all of these things. Even in the translation of the book, I got to talk about what it's like to be black parents. Judy got to talk about what it's like to be white parents of that time.

But let me tell you what it's like to be black parents in America. I don't, it's probably not that different from other generations, but these are the details of our time And this is what it looks like and this is why we love our kids just as much as you love your kids But they have it they don't have as much freedom sometimes And here's why

Black boys are just as vulnerable and actually are just as I'm nervous mostly about black boys when it comes to sexuality because before they can even say they love someone, they're considered enemy number one because they're not little boys anymore. Their body's just getting bigger, muscles on their body, having a penis. They're suddenly like a threat. You have to talk about rape. You've got to talk about that with black boys. Just

your presence sometimes. It may not be what you and the young woman consented to, but you are still in the time if their parents say, we witnessed that in real time. These things are happening. So we've got to be, we could be real clear on consent. We've got to be real clear on these sorts of things. Um, wanting to put that, not just for wanting to not only protect my own sons, but all of these beautiful black boys that I get to, you know, being community with that I love and I don't want to see hurt and I don't want to see misunderstood and misjudged just by their physical presence. Nothing more than that. And because they don't like to smile because, know they want to keep it real. I want them to see I want them to see

beyond that I want to see black boy vulnerability I want people to see them as their fuel that they actually can cry and Michael joke Michael Cooper jokes because more I got to cry again I was like yeah you gotta cry again. He's hurt, he's more sensitive. I said the character's sensitive, I said that. So, but yeah, because I just wanted, yeah, black boys cry. And they also ball, and they also go for their dreams, and they want the girl, and they get the grades. You know what I'm saying? They do all, they struggle, you know?

They're frustrated, they're all of those things. And then when They do all, they struggle, you know? They're frustrated. They're all of those things. And then when they finally get what they want, it scares them for some reason. Because he know he didn't mean none of that stuff. He said, I don't wanna give it away, but he ain't mean none of that stuff on that last episode.

I don't think he really want, I know he didn't wanna walk away. Why? I don't know. I think he was just afraid of what he was, he was afraid of losing it. So he feels like letting it go would be less painful than just losing it.

You know what I love about storytelling? Cause it meets the viewer where they're at. You're gonna see it that way. And someone's gonna see that, wow, he understood that he did not have the capacity to let go of her and choose himself. So he needed to choose himself.

He would have just stayed up underneath her. And a lot of people do that. A lot of young people do that. Because it feels good to be loved. It feels good for somebody to call you and wanna see you and hug you and kiss you. And you can get lost in that and you can lose time. I think he understood time is ticking.

And that's a reality to being young and making that leap in the, especially in a capitalistic democracy, you gotta go. He understood that and she helped him understand that. It felt to me like he didn't, he wasn't chasing her by the end of the series though. He was literally just chasing an identity that he hadn't felt before, like that real blackness.

Like the blackness that his mom and his dad wanted him to have and not lose by growing up the way he grew up. By the end of the show, he felt like, yo, going to that prom with her and just being around her and her and her friends and hearing her say she wanted to go to Howard, it didn't feel like he was just, he was chasing her.

He was chasing his blackness to me. I think all can be true. All can be true. But also imagine you get to Howard and all you know is Keisha. He might just be all up underneath Keisha. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. And that, and really, I mean, he...

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You'll hear about what they did, what it meant, and what their stories tell us about the nature of courage and sacrifice. Listen to Medal of Honor on the iHeartRadio app, Apple podcast, or wherever you get your podcast. I'm sure he played those scenarios out. I know he did because we do as a writing team. But, but what I again, what I love about storytelling is that it meets the viewer where they are. And this is what's beautiful about the show and all the different conversations that are coming up all the different opinions that are coming up this is us this the best dinner party you can ever have absolutely you just this is what we think and everybody's got opinions and what sticks to you is for you what sticks

to you is for you what what irritates you is for you. What irritates you is also for you. What irritates you is, as a writer, I just do some game I give, it's like, a lot of times people are like, I don't like that. The I don't like that is just as important as the what you do like in writing. Because I say what sticks to you is yours. That's your examination.

That's for you to examine. It's caught your attention. You can't shake it. You can't let it go. Good or bad, look into that. Investigate there, dig there. I think that's why I keep getting hits after hits is because I like digging deeper into us

and I think who doesn't want to be seen and I think a lot of our stories either they're missing or they've been distorted like you said the negative like they've been distorted I think when you start to really see yourself you know you might want to tighten up here a little tighten up there but for the most part like I'm cute I'm cute I'm doing okay I'm doing all, I'm doing all right. I could lose five pounds, whatever. But for the most part, I'm doing all right. I think that those ideas of ourselves or what we're stuck on, that may be for you to examine, you to look at. And I think that's why we need more storytellers out there.

I just got three more questions if you got time. What emotional space does Forever occupy that none of your previous shows have? What emotional space does it occupy? I think the cross-generational idea, for the most part I've written adult conversation, though I've had parents come into those stories, they're like drive-bys in a lot of ways.

I just think the complexity of family and the generational connection and that I just really enjoyed that. I think also the scale, emotionally it allowed me to really scale us. And I enjoyed that. And it, you know how the kids say, take up space? It allowed me to take up space for us and for myself.

And what did Judy Blume teach you about softness and how does that show up in your characters now? Well, softness is details. I think, especially in the book Forever, most of the book is about Catherine's internal feelings, thoughts, and to use that much time on the internal space is really a privilege, a luxury. Oftentimes, most of our story time, we're more observed than we are explored.

And I enjoyed being able to explore. And that's what Judy taught in her in her writing all the books. She's an internal writer. And then she allowed us. She gave as young people reading her books. You're validating these feelings inside that I don't necessarily show because I don't want to be embarrassed or I don't want to be judged or I don't want to be misunderstood. So kids are keeping a lot to themselves. And she was being honest on the page.

So I believe I've been doing that in my body of work and I got to do it again to give young people a view of themselves today. Like she gave us 50 years ago. My last question is forever about love you've had, love you've lost, or love you still believe in. All the above. I believe in love.

I believe in love. One of the things I'm really proud of with the ending, I know there's controversy about the ending, but what I love that Justin and Keisha showed us is how love endures and it shapeshifts. Its dynamic can change change but love can stay present and they showed us how to let go and keep love in that in that ending I I think we could learn a lot from Justin and Keisha you know the

question you know is someone is this is this a forever love or the one you remember forever? And I would like to think that we as we move through our lives as human beings, that when we choose to use that word, right? I loved you that you there's a present that you were so present and so loving that even if you don't Last the couple doesn't last the love can last it just it might shift to Wow, it might just shift to we always just sort of Text each other on each other's birthday that you matter to me You know one of the fun things I you realize when you're revisiting the work, especially

as young people, oftentimes that's where our big dreaming happens. And those young loves that a lot of times the best part of you is packed in somebody else's memory of you. And so to have access back to those people actually is good for you to remember who you are when you lose your way and because you're gonna lose your way and so love holds you there so it is about the past the present and the future and I think that love can take many different forms you know I you know I have my young one plays baseball

and I've learned a lot about watching him sit in the stands, play baseball. Long days, long games. Long games, but what's beautiful about it is everybody who walks into that batter's box has a different fight. And so I often think about relationship, right? Did you swing the bat? Did you have, they call it, did you have a good at bat? And sometimes you're at bat you strike out, but you still had a good at bat And I think that's what I think love is about. Are we having a good at bat? Are we swinging? Are we using our technique? Are we using all the knowledge?

We've been all week learning for this one to two times We get to walk in that batter's box. And are we using it? Are we, do we, you know, do we whatever the shoulders and the hips and all that guys, do we eyes on the ball, eyes on the ball, all those things, all those things you got to do with this ball coming at you 80, 90 miles an hour. That's love. And I think that I would like to think that we can all approach it at a good at that. Wow. I have one final question.

Regina King and her directing. Yes, thank you for asking. Yeah, cause okay, so I was trying to look to see what the conversation around it was online, but I remember when I found out that she was doing it, my first thought was I wonder what their conversations were like, like what changes she made and what she brought to the screen, because I heard you say a lot of it

was about your life as a parent as well too. But like. No, it's, you move, let me be very clear. I have a muse entry point, and then once I go into that entry point, then I become a journalist almost and look at the world around. And then that's how I sort of craft my stories. That said, what's beautiful about the art form is that the art form

is a collaborative art form. My, I had to sit in that chair, Judy had to sit in that chair to write that book. I go look at the book. I had to sit in that chair and adapt that book. But one of the first phone calls you make after you have a script, you call your casting director, Kim Coleman. And then the second immediate is who is going to direct. And I called Regina King and said, I think it's time for us to collaborate again. She first, Regina, I first worked together when she in early in her directing career, she directed episodes of Being Mary Jane.

And she went off to have a really wonderful directing career and it was like, OK, I need you to help. That's helped me reset the tone. We both are mothers. We both love our sons. We I needed Regina King. I need that chemistry. Her iconic performances as an actress, I would love them rooted in these characters, especially helping us launch this love story within these two young actors, anchoring them in their chemistry and everybody knowing where they are in this play,

in this world. Then of course, we built out the team and the decisions that we make together. You know, finding Cambio who is our DP, Suzuki, our production designer. We collaborate on the ideas of our you know our costume Minka and Tonja. These are the principal storytellers that we need to help tell our story. Just helping to make those decisions together. It was really lovely to help set the tone for it so that we can take off and run. I mean, you know, Anthony Hemingway coming in, Timmy Banks, all of these major decisions, our editors, you know, Carolina and Naomi and just Gary Gunn, our composer, Keir Lehman, we put like, it's almost like, speaking of baseball references,

it's almost like you have your baseball cards out. You're like, we should bring this for this, I got this for this, and you kind of put it together and it's fun to puzzle together. It's fun to sort of collaborate on that level. So she and my company, Story 27, hers, Royal Ties, we've come together to help set a bar of excellence that we want the show to live in and thrive from.

And you know where season two is going? I do. I have ideas. I still have to go through the process. You know, part of what I think another thing that makes me successful is how I honor my partnerships. And I come into it respectfully and really to garner that energy back to me.

But I have a concept of what I need to do. I won't share it until my partners are signed off on it. But my next steps are me coming into a meeting ready to talk to Netflix around, hey, this is where I see it. And this is where I think it should go, hearing their feedback, their concerns, taking that in consideration,

sometimes debating it for a while, but finding a way to communicate why I think it's the way it should go. And if not, where's the compromise in that? And feeling good about the artistic flexibility that I have to craft story to figure that out. So I'm looking forward to that and success especially. You know, sometimes success can make people tighten up too.

That's right, stop playing with Mara, okay? Mara had hit after hit in multiple decades. That's right. Okay, Screamin' Services, Delinia Television, give her what she wants. Including the $50 million for girlfriends. We need closure. Okay?

It's that simple. It's that simple. We've been talking about this. It's really that simple. And I'm excited. I think it's gonna come. I don't know, I feel it. Like, I don't know, last time I was here,

we talked about it. And I think what was beautiful in my journey at that time was for me to claim the value and understand the boundaries and understand what it is. I don't know, I think, and also this success breeds more success, so I kind of feel, I don't know, I kind of feel like, feeling, I think it's time.

And the success girlfriends just had on Netflix. Oh my God, Oh my God. Like they should see it. Generational success. I know, yes. I watched that, I rewatched the whole thing with my mom and I was like, this is so different. But you know what's fine, finding out people

are putting girlfriends on for their go to sleep, this is their, they call it their comfort TV show that they put on and they just let it run and some people let it run while they go to sleep. Blows my mind. Secondarily, my youngest son, I noticed that he will tell me like his friends are watching it and they think your mom is cool

because she does girlfriend. So I still got the street cred y'all. I still got it. Mine is the game. Up and down the game, all that. Up and down, well thank you. And this, I don't know if people know, but 9-11 of this year marks 25 years of Girlfriend.

25 years of Girlfriend. This year. So we need to make that announcement, right? It's time. That would be the announcement to make, right? It would only make sense. The first episode was 9-11, 2000. And all of them still look so good.

Don't they look amazing? All of them still look so good. I saw Tracy recently. We went to go see, the Wiz went back on the screen. Did anybody see it? No. On the screen? Oh, you guys.

I've seen the Wiz over and over, you know, but the Wiz on the big screen, I haven't seen that since I was a young girl. And Tracy and I went together to go see it. And we had a ball. And it was also really fun to watch her watch her mom. It was kind of like, oh, this is like very meta, right?

So that was amazing. And then- Jill and Golden was at your birthday party. Yeah, Jill and Golden were at my birthday party. So to your point, they look smashing. And do. And to Persia too. It has to happen.

It's gonna happen. I know it's gonna happen. Yes. Because it's like the one black sitcom that we really did not get any closure on whatsoever and it's so many loose ends to tie up. And you know what's really, it's not just loose ends, it's actually very relevant.

I think it's a very karmic idea to have the show have a ending and a film. I just wanna do a movie. Because of where we as a society have grown around the importance of relationships, and Tony and Joan breaking up, I think, has been the hardest thing on the audience, even over Joan not getting her man.

You know what I'm saying? And so, I think that that's an interesting thing to put back in the chat, so it's still relevant to this day. It's like, how does friendship come back together or not come back together? Can you still find that love of your life when you choose, you know what, I'm doing all right by myself. There's nothing wrong with me for not having had a husband. But that was a different conversation back at the time

we were producing that show. So where we have progressed today, 25 years later, there's a different value in society around relationships and friendship and how important friendship is. And the sustaining of it, the care of it, the beauty of it, the complexity of it. the beauty of it, the complexity of it. And I'm like, okay, look at us grow. And then also this idea that you're not broken because

you're not in partnership romantically. It's not to say that you don't want that, but understanding that there's a different, you know, entry point into that. that it's not just being married to be married you know you want to be really partnered with your soulmate or your you know those was it twin flame which one of the whatever to every one it is whichever one's the hot one that one I was gonna say so Joan is up week you can't say anything but Joan is actually she does still want to be married and be with a person or she just going to do it. I'm just talking about where we left her.

Okay. And I'm not going to give it to you. It's funny. Cause I'm like, it sounds like she's gonna do it all by herself still. I'm just talking about where we are in society. Again, cause it would be shared with you guys very openly that my writing process, my writing process is like, who am I musing on? And then you open up to think where society is, the journalists and me, and that's where we are.

And that's all I'm sort of commenting on and that where we left the show, 25 years where society is, I feel the relevance of girlfriends is almost matched to where our ending was. Yeah. Wow. And so, and even, and we talked about their physical beauty, even that, you know, saying even how as this is, you know, that's important, you know, and, and also, how do we get there? What are we doing? Even my generation of women, which is also the generation of those women on girlfriends,

we've pioneered a whole new conversation around we're openly going to talk about paraminopause and menopause. We're not going down like the previous generations, being okie doke by the lies over there. So it's like those, there's so much to talk about, I think in a new iteration of the ending that we're still holding onto from 25 years ago. So it's an interesting thing to hold onto. In terms of like the details of what I would do,

I'm not gonna share that because that's my currency. My ideas are my currency. My craftsmanship is how I make, everybody got a dress, but it's how I make the dress. And so I'm excited for that opportunity. I just, I don't know, energetically, I just feel it differently this time around. And maybe because I'm on your show now, see?

It's like even that is a beautiful omen, right? Because we talked about it last time I was there and now I'm back and we talking about it again and yes, why not? I mean, there's nothing guaranteed, but girlfriends is a guaranteed hit. I don't care what nobody says. Oh, I know, global guarantee.

Global, easily. I wanna show you this, I posted this last week. Now that we're grown, which friend was the most toxic? Because we're grown now, so we have a different perception of all of them. What do you think? Todd Todd Todd had no business, you know, man, Tony Tony had no business man time but Honestly people always leave Lena Lin would be considered very toxic nowadays because she didn't have no boundaries.

She didn't respect nobody's boundaries. I think she was the most at one with herself to a certain extent. Mine was the only one that was unproblematic to me. But Lynn didn't respect anybody's boundaries. I have interesting theories about Joan and Tony, but that was a kick out of the aisle. But let me ask you a question.

Why did you use the word toxic? Oh, I reposted to me. That was just a conversation starter. I know, but why did you repost that conversation starter? Cause I think that they had traits that could be considered toxic. You know what I wanna to say about that? What I love about the vulnerability and the complexity

of the characters, that later they can be analyzed and give some language about what they were brave enough to be. And what I look at between the generations is that when we look at this generation generations is that when we, there's this generation, we have more language to label things, to label it. I feel like those characters, and so the word toxic, I just sort of underscore, highlight, and circle.

Because that can be this blanket over them that doesn't deserve to be there. And that's what I'm saying is that we are complex. Now, I'm not saying that the complexity means you need to be friends with them for a lifetime. You may only complex for a while. I'm not saying you can't grow from them. I can't say you might, like I said, you might not have a good at bat and strike out.

But I don't know, I just, I wanna be, I think it's important to examine, but not hold the label. True, absolutely. And what, cause one of the things that Lynn represents to me and what she, I think, represented to the generation that was actually beautiful is that at the time that was writing that series all black women were presented that

they knew exactly who they are what they needed to be in order to be accepted. Lynn represented she didn't know but she was still loved. Trying to figure it out. Even in her sexual, like she was, that was probably the first time I ever saw a woman, black woman on camera that she was queer, but like we didn't know really what that was per se. We didn't label it.

She was just Lynn. Yeah, I didn't know until I got this age. Yeah, I just thought Lynn was just like the girl who just did whatever she wanted to do. And everybody has that friend. Yes. And those friends, they have to be strong in themselves to a certain extent because you're so different than everybody else.

And if you think about Lynn and you put it in this new dress, she was break the no boundaries. She was actually, instead of it being toxic, she was actually being progressive. Most people align queerness to progressive thought, right? She was challenging notions. Why one could say the way she lived her life was communal living, which is now a conversation for the future. I'm just saying how we look at things and being careful not to,

I think it's beautiful to analyze, because that's how we progress. But be careful not to then blanket everything with labels. Let's go back to forever. In 2018, we were saying ADHD. 2025, we're saying neurodivergent. Language keeps changing as we understand ourselves, and I think that's an interesting thing

about the power of language. And one of the things I want us to be mindful of, especially in our community, is how quick we are to say, oh, he's toxic, she's toxic, toxic, toxic, toxic. I would love to say, okay, maybe that aspect of that person needs some development, needs some growth, Dawn, DJ Envy, Mara, Don, we are in

this, okay, our guilt, fear, maybe as parents we need to release that, understand what it is and let it go. But just be careful not to keep blanketing us and our desire to grow and our desire to purge, you know, and get whole. So that's what I would say. I think what I love about the collection of those women, those characters is as complicated or toxic as they were. Even in that, we deserve love. And they were trying to figure it out and there are different ways to stay together

in their friendship and in their respective relationships, you know, and that how do we move forward together in the complexity of us? Because Carrie and Samantha fell out and nobody called them toxic when they fell out. Yes they did. No, people love. What, Carrie is so toxic.

You the first person on the rehearsal day. What? Carrie is so toxic. You the first person I've ever heard say that. What? People feel like Carrie was wronged by Samantha and Samantha's just this free friend who just, eventually they still wanna see him get back together as friends. People want Jill to never speak to Joan again. No, that's not true.

Yeah, people feel like they were bad friends to each other. Maybe, but that's not true. We definitely want them to get back together. That's part of the closure. We wanna see if Jill and Joan become friends again. Tony and Joan. Tony and Joan, I'm sorry. These girlfriends argue all the closure We want to see if Jill and Joan become friends again Tony's girlfriend But do you guys know but I'm asking you guys do you really I know you do Charlie you are very clear about Wanting to see a movie you are 16 years. He's been clear

You I want to also say I'm always gonna take a moment to say thank you because you also, that means a lot to me as a storyteller. Like, wow, that level of impact on you. And even the fact that you, me and Judy Blume are in the same thing. So I'm a thank you. Thank you. 16 years. But now you three, you want to, are you going to go spend some money at the theater to go

see a girl? I haven't walked to the theater. I'm trying to be in the damn theater. Like, yes. You ain't on this for a long time. I'm go see a girl. I would walk to the theater. I'm trying to be in the damn theater. Yes. Yes. We got someone to go in some time. I'm just doing a check. Yes.

I agree. My wife is taking me there so fast. It's not even getting there. It would be an event. I don't think you ever have to do that. There's not too many events anymore. It would be an event. I think so, too.

I think people would dress up. I think people would go out to dinner. People would show me I'm in this nice dress. She's holding it. I have a nice dress, a nice wig. What? It's going to be something. You asked on this nice dress. She's gonna have on a nice dress, a nice wig. What? It's gonna be something. You asked on Sherri Shepherd for her to open her phone.

She knows somebody with $50 million. Ask these two. Yeah, who you got on your phone? Okay, let's call somebody. Yeah. No, I've been trying to shake trees. I've been trying to shake trees. Let's call somebody.

Yes. Thank you for joining us. Thank you for having me. Sherri Shepherd is on Netflix now. We appreciate it. It's a long conversation. We Our show is on Netflix now, we appreciate it. It's a long conversation, we appreciate you. I loved it, I loved it. I love what you said.

Thank you, thank you, thank you. You've always been so intentional. And you're right, girlfriend gave us a lot of vocabulary. Yeah. So what, I had another question, but I know you're right. It gave us a lot to have a conversation about. And I think that's really where everything is at, is communication, have conversation, share ideas.

We not all gonna agree, but I think we all get to know each other. But what do you want forever to give people permission to do? And that's my last question, I promise. What do I want forever? Love. I want people to think more about love in every aspect of their life.

And actually, even if we're older, that it's okay to want that first love kind of feeling. Like what do we need to do to get back to that first love kind of feeling? I don't know, I just think it's, I think as a human, a spirit having a human experience, dancing with love all the time has got to be our top endeavor. So that's what I want.

Mara Brocker-Kill, the icon, the legend. We appreciate you so much. We love you, we value you, appreciate you and all your work. Thank you. Thank you. I really appreciate being here. Thank you, Breakfast Club. It's the Breakfast Club. Good morning. Wake that ass up. Early in the morning. The Breakfast Club. I'm Andrea Gunning, host of the podcast, Betrayal. Police Lieutenant Joel Kern used his badge to fool everyone.

Most of all, his wife, Caroline. He texted, I've ruined our lives. You're going to want to divorce me. How far would he go to cover up what he'd done? The fact that you lied is absolutely horrific. And quite frankly, I question how many other women are out there that may bring forward allegations in the future. Listen to Betrayal on the iHeartRadio app, Apple podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. The Made For This Mountain podcast exists to empower listeners to rise above their inner struggles and face the mountain in front of them.

So during Mental Health Awareness Month, tune into the podcast, focus on your emotional well-being, and then climb that mountain. You will never be able to change or grow through the thing that you refuse to identify, the thing that you refuse to say, hey, this is my mountain, this is the struggle. Listen to Made for This Mountain on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Have you ever thought about going voiceover? I'm Hope Woodard, a comedian, creator, and seeker of male validation.

I'm also the girl behind voiceover, the movement that exploded in 2024. You might hear that term and think it's about celibacy. But to me, voiceover is about understanding yourself outside of sex and relationships. It's flexible, it's customizable, and it's a personal process. Singleness is not a waiting room.

You are actually at the party right now. Let me hear it. Yes. Listen to VoiceOver on the iHeartRadio app, Apple podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. The Medal of Honor is the highest military decoration in the United States. Recipients have done the improbable, the unexpected, showing immense bravery and sacrifice in the name of something much bigger than themselves. This medal is for the men who went down that day. On Medal of Honor, Stories of Courage, you'll hear about these heroes and what their stories tell us about the

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