The Breakfast Club - INTERVIEW: Matt Barnes & Stephen Jackson Talk 'All The Smoke' Podcast & Book, Kobe, Kamala, Bronny James + More

Episode Date: October 8, 2024

The Breakfast Club Sits Down With Matt Barnes & Stephen Jackson To Discuss 'All The Smoke' Podcast & Book, Kobe, Kamala, And Bronny James. Listen For More!See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

Wake that ass up in the morning. The Breakfast Club. Morning, everybody. It's DJ Envy, Jess Hilarious, Charlamagne Tha God. We are The Breakfast Club. Jess is on maternity leave, so Lawn La Rosa is filling in. And we got some special guests in the building. That's right. We got Matt Barnes and Steven Jackson. Welcome, fellas. What's up, family? How y'all feeling? Good. Tired, but good. Tired, but good. Collectively known as the All the Smoke podcast. That's right. Their new coffee table book is out right now, All the Smoke.

Man, you know, I always say, like, I know that there's a lot of athletes who do podcasts and stuff now. I don't know anybody before y'all. I feel like y'all started that whole wave. So to see y'all be the first with a coffee table book, man, that makes so much sense to me. Man, it's been a blessing. It's been a journey.

I mean, our five-year anniversary is tomorrow. Wow. If you would have told me, man, that makes so much sense to me. Man, it's been a blessing. It's been a journey. I mean, our five year anniversary is tomorrow. Wow. If you would've told me like five years later, we'd have a coffee table book, a whole production company and people working underneath us, I would've been like, you're full of shit. I didn't even know what a podcast was at the time. So, you know, we are blessed to come together

and find lightning in a bottle and thankful for the opportunities and obviously being able to partner with you and your company and be able to get this done was dope. get this done was dope a lot of people don't know that bro that's out to you a lot of success you know a lot of stuff that we have going on you brought our way and you thought about us even with uh black effects so we appreciate you a lot of people don't know that so we gotta give your props to all love my brothers how did this come about though this this this for a podcast like i know y'all was partners together yeah well i think we

i i think jack retired maybe one or two years before me and we both got out we're doing esp in a fox and getting positive feedback and people said we needed to do something together and we were at my house in the bay one time smoking and i'm just like you want to do a podcast and he's like sure what is it i was like i don't really know but i think we can drink and smoke because we were working esp in a fox you know you got to kind of walk that line so it was just a little bit more to our comfort zone. And he said, yeah, so I started doing the homework and we landed here, we landed at Showtime. And you interviewed so many people.

Who are some of your favorite people that you guys have interviewed in the past? I mean, I'm a big hip-hop guy and a comedy guy, so the comedians and the rap artists like Lil Wayne, having Kevin Hart on the show, been able to laugh at them. I think Jamie Foxx, we was home during COVID, that episode, man, I think everybody needed that one.

So we had the comedians and the hip hop artists on, that's always my favorite. I just think being like you guys, a trusted voice in the space is important. For us to start with J.R. Smith and end up with Kamala Harris and Kobe's last interview and Steph and KD and Shaq and the list goes on. Will Smith, Jada Pinkett Smith, I just think being

a trusted voice in this space with so many voices is something I pride myself on. I think athletes didn't have a safe space before y'all, especially NBA players, because we can't speak the before y'all, especially NBA players. Because we can't speak the language y'all speak. So it causes them to open up in a different way. You know, we wear our emotions on the sleeve and everything we've been through in life

is on the table for everybody to see and we're willing to talk about it. So I think when our guests see that, it's easy for them to open up too. Now Kamala was your most recent. We did Joe Kim Noah after her, but yeah, Kamala was a big boy for us and how was that i know you're a little reluctant a little bit at first oh no everybody you know that i called

him i talked to him about it uh me and matt we went at it for a couple days about it you don't want to do it at first nah because i really don't want to get in politics i don't i don't even want to be involved and a lot of people that support me don't get involved you know what i'm saying i look at it the same way i look at it. But as a friend and as a brother to him, anything that he asks me to do, nine out of 10 times I'm loyal to a fault. You know what I'm saying? Even if it's something I don't wanna do.

But I know it's beneficial for our company. I know it's beneficial. And I see, after I did the interview, I see now I have a lot of women in my life. I have eight aunts, six daughters. So I would look to them after I did the interview, I see now I have a lot of women in my life. I have eight aunts, six daughters. So I would look to them after I did the interview. I'm glad I did it now because they all look at her and look up to her and aspire to be great like her.

So I'm glad I did it. How did you guys prepare for her? A lot of studying, a lot of smoking, a lot of studying. But I want to take it back before I get to your question. When he said he didn't want it, first of all, I told him, I said, Stack, have I ever led you wrong in a business decision or life? And he said no. But, you know, when he said he didn't want to get involved with the politics,

I told him, you know, I don't think that was his choice because once he did that George Floyd thing, he put him smack dab in the middle of the biggest leading, one of the biggest protests this world has ever seen. So a lot of things come with that. A lot of good, a has ever seen. So a lot of things come with that. A lot of good, a lot of bad, but a lot of things come with that. And I think that he implanted himself in the middle. And I always respected his, I mean, always will respect his opinion, but I just thought this could be an opportunity for, he has a very loyal following and it could have been, you know,

it was an opportunity for him to, you know, get some stuff off his chest or ask straight to the face, you know, ask her straight to the face those questions. i'm glad he decided to come around it took him a minute like literally hey let me tell you bro until she came in the room jack wasn't fucking with oh wow right until so so she came in the room and then she took us away from the group and and took us on a walk throughout the house and started showing us these this dope black art and sculptures and jack was was still tough, like, I ain't fucking with this. And then he saw this one piece of art he liked,

and she had talked about it, and she had moved on, and I kept following. He went and touched the art and looked at it. I was like, uh-oh, she might be getting to him. And then she showed this dope-ass chandelier, and then once she showed the chandelier and explained it, and Jack started smiling. I was like, all right, she got him, so we were straight.

So it took him a minute to warm up. Did she know that you didn't want to do it? She had to know. I think she had a little bit. I think she had a little something. Someone might have handed it to her. But how did we prepare? I mean, we prepare like we used to play, like watch game, film.

So we study. We go back and do research and then we get with our research team and find out the strategy. My strategy with this interview was it wasn't a political interview. It was an all-the-smoke interview. We happened to ask a few political questions. We felt it was close to our community, but at the end of the day, we wanted to humanize her and get to know her a little better. So just kind of figuring out what was that opening question to get her laughing and smiling and, you know, find out the story about the blind date with her now husband, Doug. And as soon as we

asked that, she started smiling from ear to ear. And we knew that we kind of got her to open, you know, put her guard down a little bit. And it was a fun interview. The biracial question and the question about the blended family killed it. Yeah. You know what I'm saying? Because, like, it connected with her. There's no script for that. Nah.

You know, you can't go to your talking points for that. You just got to be honest. You got to be sure. And that's what we wanted. You know, Charlamagne, we've been lucky to humanize and make our guests feel comfortable to really share their true opinions. And biracial and step-parents, we both are. But biracial is something that I've fought with and dealt with really my entire career. And now that this is at the forefront of her campaign, I just thought it would be a great talking point.

That's what I was telling Jack, too. I'm like, yo, if not you, then who? Because, you know, if you got an opinion about these elected officials and you've been expressing it express it to her but i also think too i mean she could have went to any podcast that's right there's a ton like you said there's a ton of them and but i love the fact that she came in i said that the other day on the radio i was like you know she needs to do where people are going and sometimes these politicians go to places where we don't necessarily go to and i want to see her do more stuff like that yeah what were the conversations with her like off of the air like was there things that y'all talk about off where were you like dang

uh i asked her she you know because i knew that the vice president house was probably stiff and white for a lot a lot of years so i asked her if she added her touch to it and that's when we got kind of started talking about the art and stuff she's done to the house to kind of put her put her energy around it um what else? We talked about, actually, I feel like the last three or four minutes of the podcast, and I think we caught some of it, just it was a back and forth. Do you remember what we was talking about at the very end? We was talking about, she asked about Gianna.

We talked about the Warriors and being there. You know, when we played, we believed time. Did y'all smoke before y'all got there? I did. Oh, of course. I'm high now. Yeah, it was too presidential to be able to try to sneak it in and get one off. And we was representing a lot of people, so we didn't want to get in trouble.

But yeah, definitely, we pre-gamed. You know, that was one of them smoke showers, you know. In the shower, yeah. It got the steam, so don't mess with the hotel. You still got affirmations of the run for office? Oh, man, I did, man. I said that in, like, early 30s. And, you know, I started shadowing Kevin Johnson,

who was the current mayor at the time. Then I worked with Daryl Steinberg a little bit. And, you know, I said it at 50. I'm 44 now. So we'll see. I mean, you know, year by year I get more engaged and learn more and try to understand the process. So if my business affairs are in order by the time I'm 50, I may, you know, chase that down. What do you say to people who say that people in sports shouldn't talk about stuff like politics?

Like they should just. Well, I just feel like we're affected by everything. You know, I mean, just because we played a certain sport. I mean, we're fathers, we're business owners. You know, we're in the community, we're tied to everything. So, I mean, I respect people whether they want to be in it or not. But, you know, my whole thing with people is kind of learn the process. So if you're going to be mad, at least you know what the fuck you're mad at.

You know, a lot of people are mad at lies and mad at misconceptions. So my whole thing is learn the process and understand the process and how things, the pecking order and the power that the president and the vice president don't really have, understanding Congress and the House and the Senate. And then if you still want to be mad, be mad. But I think just a lot of people are headline readers and they want to get mad at bullshit. So to me, if you want to be mad, learn it and then find something to be mad at. For me, I think it's just really common sense what we need and what we need to do. It ain't rocket science. So I'm not in the hope dealing. You know what I it's just really common sense what we need and what we need to do. It ain't rocket science.

So I'm not in the hope dealing. You know what I'm saying? We all know what we need. We all know what we need to stop doing and to change to get America, you know, everybody having equality. And we will act like everything else needs to be done besides the common sense shit. You know what I'm saying? So that's why I don't want to be in politics.

Were you ever surprised, you know, because kind of like the Breakfast Club, our clips live on and you always see it. But I see the same thing with your clips. It could be something that y'all did four years ago. Are you ever surprised how long your clips go and how people recognize you from the podcast and not from the playing days? That goes back to, you know, the law of fan base. You know, that's why we do a lot of stuff we do is for the fans. But we got a law of fan base that's been rocking with us since we've been playing.

You know what I mean? So to see our stuff resurfacing and we not the ones reposting it, that means a lot. You know what I'm saying? That means we're going in the right direction. Definitely. You know, y'all had the last conversation with Kobe Bryant, last interview with Kobe Bryant.

And I always wondered, was that the last time either one of y'all actually spoke to him before he passed? That was the first and last time I spoke to him since we played against each other. Wow. I know, Matt, y'all had a relationship. Yeah, we would see each other a little bit more because he was coaching Gigi and I was coaching the Twins.

So we had talked maybe one time after that, and then he had sent some shoes literally the week. I think he passed on a Sunday. He sent shoes that previous Monday to the Twins and their whole team. So they had just got fresh Kobe. So we had spoken, and then, like I said, he sent some shoes the week of the actual the past so it was it was tough man what stands out from that

conversation i mean you have it y'all have it in the all the smoke coffee table book but what stands out from that conversation just from that date i think the pre-conversation we went into his office and how adamant he was of people the whole ride there oh yeah oh yeah we did some shit on the ride right the whole ride there we was like, we did some shit on the ride, right? The whole ride there. We was like kids. We never got to put that out, right? We never put that out.

That was crazy. We had a dope ride. We filmed and talked a lot of shit, but I think. Was y'all three? Nah, just the anticipation of one interview.

Because we had to go out there. We went out to go see him, so we left from LA to Orange County like an hour and a half, hour and a half drive depending on when you drive. How many blunts is that?

One, maybe two. One, two? One, maybe two. One, two? Yeah, one or two. Not too much. But we had a conversation in his office before we actually got on camera, and he was really adamant about this next 20 years and for the world to be prepared

for what he was doing in business. He was just finishing writing one of the children novels he was working on, and he was just like, fellas, I don't want people to remember me for my last 20 years. I want them to remember me for my next 20 years. He had the fund and had won Emmys and doing all kinds of stuff in the business space and obviously really saw when I got to see him coach Gigi and and just he didn't always never showed a ton of joy but you can just tell he loved it I mean he had these little girls

running the triangle offense which takes grown men a long time to learn he had these girls practicing four or five days a week, three hours a day. Like the thing about Kobe was he didn't take nothing light when it came to basketball. So these were little young girls, but they were running the Lakers offense to a tee. He was like a drill sergeant with it,

but you could tell he loved it. You know, all those little girls loved him and looked up to him and just the passion behind that was beautiful to see. For me, I think seeing think meeting him as a teenager and seeing him grow into the icon he was, I just admired that. With so many players and basketball players

you come across doing AAU and traveling, coming up as a teenager, you see so many people that's supposed to be great that don't live up to it. He lived up to it and exceeded it. So to be able to sit there, to talk to him after our careers and you know what I mean, and go through the memories, you know what I'm saying, before he passed, that meant everything to me.

Was Kobe a scooper or a scorer? He was definitely a hooper. Okay. Yeah, he was a dog on both ends. Definitely a dog. Not even close. Probably the mascot of a hooper. People got mad at you when you said that,

but I don't even play ball and understood what you were saying. Yeah, because a lot of those people who got mad are the ones I was talking to. People only get mad when they're guilty of it. You know what I'm saying? When the shoe fits. It's a lot of guys that came in the NBA where their job was just to score. They didn't compete on both ends. A lot of them didn't give that effort.

And that's just the facts. I just seen the video again yesterday of you and Kobe going back and forth. Well, I mean, when you mentioned that, that was the thing that came to my mind. Like, I coach kids now, and they've become kids that come to me at the AU tournament and weren't even born. You did that to Kobe? You did that to Kobe, but they didn't even see the minutes before that. Yeah, we was going at it, you know, and it was funny.

In that last interview, we talked, I was ready to fight him. What stopped you from swinging on him? Because he would elbow to your stomach. He was pushing you. It got to the point one time, I was like, fight him. What stopped you from swinging on him? Because he would elbow to your stomach. He was pushing you. It got to the point where I was like, oh, yeah. You got to respect for certain people. They won't do that either. They know, you know what I'm saying?

You'll go to that point, and there's some people that you don't even know. They'll go to the point, and they'll know I'll knock you out. But Kobe, that's just competition. It ain't personal. But it was personal that day, though. It looked like he was a second, like, one more. Because, I mean, obviously, we all know how great he was as just a player, like he was a second like one more because i mean obviously we all know how great he was as just a player but he was mentally too so like you said all the elbowing

and shit that the refs claim they don't see or don't want to see like i was tired of that shit you know what i mean i keep getting called fouls for retaliating so i'm like fuck this man that's how y'all got cool though he said but he said if anybody crazy enough to mess with me like this i want him on my team. He called me that. So I was actually, my deal was up in Orlando, and this was when Bron and Bosh were going to Miami. So I was talking to Pat Riley and even D-Wade on the phone one time, and Pat was telling me about the lineups and the championships we can win,

and I got a cold call from a number I didn't even know and happened to pick it up, and it was him. And we talked a little bit, and I congratulated him then about winning and asked what I was doing. He said what you said and he's just like, he wanna be a Laker. I'm like, hell yeah. And like three days later I was a Laker.

Wow. What do you think about the Lakers now? We see Bronny play the last two games and people are on Bronny's ass right now. That's a beautiful, I showed him a picture when we got in the car, we saw the picture. That's the dopest picture ever when he helping his dad up. That's the dopest shit ever.

Whoever hating, die. Yeah, I mean I think if anyone deserves this opportunity to play with his son, I think it's him. You know what I mean? And the fact that that whole thing was orchestrated for him to get to the Lakers is amazing. And I had a moment this past summer because my twins are 15 now, so I take them and play against grown men.

And I remember one time me and the twins were on the same team playing, and we was hooping. I'm just like, man, this is so dope. I couldn't imagine this on the highest level. So, to me, I want to give a – I mean, the kid was a 55th pick. Normally the 55th pick doesn't even make it. So, all these crazy expectations for him earlier are ridiculous. Like, allow him to develop.

But, you know, we don't live in a world where development is allowed, especially on the highest level. So, I think from a father-son aspect it's incredible. But, you know, the Lakers are one of those teams where you got to produce. What have you done for me lately? And they haven't necessarily done that. So it's going to be an interesting, you know, scrutinized year, I think. We were talking about that earlier.

Do you think that Bronny will actually have the chance to develop? Or do you feel like people are going to pigeonhole him so much that it might get to him? I think he has even more of a chance to develop because his father's there. Like, that's the motivation to have. And he's seen what it takes to be great. So all that is in him already. And now he's in the facilities where you have everything here

to be great. I think he has everything he needs and I think he's definitely going to blossom over. And I also think, too, I mean, I don't think you look at Bronny

in the same light as you look at LeBron. That's what I said. People try to, though. People try. I just think he's going to be a very solid role player. I mean, he's got a high IQ, plays defense, can make the right play,

can shoot the ball. So I just think he needed a little bit more time to develop, and now he's developing on the biggest stage. But I think, you know, two, three, four years, he's going to be a very solid rotational player. Does he start in the G League, or do you think there's no G League for him? I think he should. To me, it's about playing.

You know, I play with JJ, and I fuck with JJ heavy. I think he's going to be on the hot for him? I think he should. To me, it's about playing. You know, I play with J.J., and I fuck with J.J. heavy. I think he's going to be on the hot seat, but I like his mentality. He teaches. He's a personable person. So for all the people who say no, the most important thing is getting to play. You don't learn shit from sitting on the bench and watching. So Bronny has to play.

So whether that's going to be eight to ten minutes in the real game or if it's going to be 30 minutes on the G league level, I think he just needs to play. And I think they'll figure that out. You can't simulate the NBA in the G league though. You got to play in the NBA to understand the NBA pacing game. The D league is totally. But you just have to play though.

Yeah. I mean, it can get you ready, but in order to be successful, but to be successful and to make a name for yourself in the NBA, you know what I'm saying? You have to learn how to play that game. Yeah, no doubt.

What would be considered success for Bronny? 15, 14-year career, a long career in the NBA. I mean, we're not expecting him to score 50,000 points. You know what I'm saying? We expect him to be a star and possibly be an all-star one day. I got to ask, you know, since we are in New York, New York just made a trade that sent Cat here. What were your thoughts on that trade?

Wonderful. I know y'all happy. I love Julius Rondo, but I'll take Cat over him any day. Cat is way more durable. We lose a shooter, though. You lose a shooter, but he does way more than just shoot Cat. And then the East too,

I think a big guy like that, that can spread the floor on this team, I think he's gonna be good for y'all. Him and Ibiko attitude, didn't they scrap one time? Yeah, it's gonna be good for y'all. You know, I'm a dog, I like dogs, so obviously seeing Devin Chenzo and Julius Randle leave, you know, I kinda like, ugh, you know what I mean?

Because I really feel like- That's what I meant shooter, when Devin Chenzo was the shooter. Yeah, you know, they're trying to put something together. They put the whole... I'm talking about DiVincenzo. No, no, I mean, we got cap, but we ain't got no spot up shooting. Come on, man.

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Come on, man. Come on, man. If I'm not mistaken, he hit the most threes in Nick's history. Yes. 283 threes or something. And helped us out last year when all of our people were injured. I get it. Now, he's a very solid role player. I definitely feel like he's going to be missed. But Nick's got Mikkel Bridges now. He's got Mikkel Bridges. I get it.

So I think Cat's really going to help this team if he's three-level Cat, not just staying outside and shooting jumpers all day. And I think this fan base won't allow some of the stuff he was doing in Minnesota where he would settle a lot because he is so skilled and talented and can score on all three levels and is a real, real problem. But I think sometimes he settles, but I think he's coming into a situation that's not only good for him, but his fiancee or his girl because she's kind of into things too.

So being in this media market, is it going to be very beneficial for him if he attacks it the right way, I feel like. Isn't this family from? Yeah, he's from Jersey. Jersey. Going back home. Yeah, man, isn't his family from? Yeah, he from Jersey. Jersey, Jersey. Going back home. Yeah, man, I wish both sides good luck. I'm interested to see too how Anthony Edwards

and Julius Randle get along, because that's two dogs right there. So that's interesting to see how their chemistry works. You know what I wanted to ask you about, Jack? The malice and the palace dog, right? Man, I didn't realize how much that situation impacted y'all, you know what I mean? Because when you think about it,

yes, y'all could have won a chip that year. I think that was a year for us to win a chip. If you look when the brawl happened, we probably had the second or best record in the league when that happened and we was blowing everybody out. And I think we all knew that that was Reggie's last hurrah. We wanted to win it for him, but like you said, it wasn't the same.

I missed, what, two or three All-Star games because of that. Jermaine was a shoe-in Hall of Famer around that time until that happened. And Ron was possibly the first, you know, can win defensive player and MVP in the same year. So all those things were working for us, and that one incident killed everything. And it didn't seem like it brought y'all together,

not all of y'all. It didn't because everybody didn't do it for loyalty. You know what I'm saying? Everybody wasn't in that situation for loyalty. Some people was in it because they was there. You know what I mean? I actually rode with my teammate for being a good teammate. A lot of guys were just in there doing stuff that wasn't necessary.

And it cost us that season. How many times did that happen to you in your life, Jay? Where you just, I don't give a fuck. This is my guy. We going out. You going to war. I'm going to your life, Jay? Where you just, I don't give a fuck, this my guy, we going out, you going to war, I'm going to war. I'm loyal to a fault, I'm loyal to a fault, but you know what I'm saying? But like, I can sleep that way.

You know what I'm saying? If we go somewhere right now, I'm gonna be the first one to jump out there. That's just how I was taught, that's how I was raised. But you know, as you get older, you get smarter. Is that one of the things that you regret that season? Like how all of that played out? Yeah, I regret it because, you know,

I was considering myself a real good basketball player, and I missed a lot of all-star games like accolades because of that. You know, even when I had great seasons, that still was a cloud over my great playing. And it hurted Ron, too, and Jermaine. So it definitely wasn't beneficial for none of us. Was it tough to do that doc, like just to sit there and have to relive all of that?

Well, I mean, the reason why it wasn't tough because it was gratifying for getting some money for talking about it. We lost so much for one punch. Like let me get some money back for talking about it. You threw more than one punch. Well, I threw two. That's it? Yeah.

See, I'm glad you said that. We can clear this up right now, Evan. We can clear it out of the whole world. We can clear this up right now. Well, his arms are it out the whole world. We can clear this up right now. Well, his arms are long. This is why I said I shouldn't have got fined. When it all happened, I jumped up and went over the stands. I went six rows up.

Didn't hit nobody. Got to Ron. A beer was thrown in his face the second time, and that's the guy I hit. When I turned around, a guy was holding Ron, punching him. I hit him. If I was just wanting to be stupid, I could have hit everybody those six rows up. But I went to protect him, so I wasn't really

on no idiot stuff. You know what I'm saying? I was just being a protector, but it just turned out to look that way. So if you look at it, I could have hit a whole bunch of people. I didn't. Them hands didn't get as loose as they could have. Nah, nah, nah. How's it been watching the evolution of marijuana in the NBA? Oh, it's beautiful.

I think we don't get enough credit for it. Nah, for real. You know, because to be able to play in the NBA now and not get tested, like, you don't know what we went through. That was a full job. And we was paying people and drinking all kinds of stuff just to be able to smoke. And now looting the P and all kinds of stuff. Man, doing all kinds of stuff just to be able to smoke.

So now they can, you know, do it freely. I mean, I know a lot of guys that might not talk about it publicly, but I know they appreciate, I know a lot of guys that might not talk about it publicly, but I know they appreciate being able to smoke and relax after a game the right way without taking all them pills and shit. I think when I retired in 17, that was one of my main focuses

is being the shield for the current guys. And myself and our brother Al Harrington were flying out here to New York to talk to the Players Association and the league and just understanding the plant, study the plant until they both got, you know, people on both sides to start studying. And from what I heard that the NBA was really against it still,

the PA was more for it and they had to come to a common ground. And they ended up doing that, you know, obviously in the bubble when the, you know, with the COVID hit and they gave the players time off and then they brought everyone back to the bubble. If they would have tested that probably 85% of the league would have failed because guys were off, didn't know if the season was going to come or not and a majority of the guys you know medicated so you know i think there was a very smart move for them to go ahead and bypass it

there and then after that it was gone so i think i say all that to say is it's it was it was tough smoking our entire career because it was you know every time we did it we were risking fines or suspensions so it was a real real job to smoke in the league. And now, like Jack said, just to be able to freely do it, to relax, go to sleep, focus, anti-inflammatory, all the properties for it, I think I'm happy for those guys. Were y'all trying to have the conversations then, though? Like, yo, this is what's helping us?

No, we just did it. You can't do it, all right. We did it anyway. The conversations needed to happen, but I think my conversation when I started talking was have the conversation. We just did. Not really. You can't do it, all right. We did it anyway. The conversations needed to happen, but I think my conversation when I started talking was after the fact. Got you. Because it was just so,

they didn't want to hear that shit. You know what I mean? It was something you couldn't do. You know what I mean? So I think as the world progressed and we started getting research behind the positives instead of just the negatives, I think that's when the game started to change.

Could you physically play high? Because I be reading these stories about Michael and him, how they used to be drinking Budweiser and going to drop 50. I smoked before I played. Where? I just smoked exactly before the game, but that day early in the morning probably, yeah, I probably did. But not going to the game.

I didn't came down. But, like, going to the game fresh off one, absolutely not. Not in the NBA. You getting cooked. Yeah, I know a couple dudes that smoked driving into the gym. We won't say them names, but they was different. So, I mean, I could smoke, you know, a few hours before, but I wouldn't smoke on

the way to the game. One, because I didn't want to smell like it around everybody, but two, it's just like, depending on what you're smoking, you're putting yourself out there in the atmosphere sometimes, so. I was geeked up in the Western Conference Finals, though. Yes. Lighten their ass up. Yeah, I guess Dallas, I was geeked up in the Western Conference Finals, though. Yes. Lighten their ass up.

Yeah, I guess Dallas. I was geeked up. Were you smoking before the game? I smoked right after the shoot around, like, three hours before the game. And I didn't go to sleep, so I was just geeked up during the game. Like, certain times you don't take that nap, you loaded. And I did in the Western Conference Finals because I was from Texas. I was just feeling good at the time and went to work.

So it worked for me. What was the process of putting this book together? How did y'all choose which conversations to put in there? Shout out Dylan. Shout out to this publishing company. You and the company and then Dylan just understanding the caliber of guests

we had and the different topics we spoke on. Again, there's a ton of people in this space now as far as sports but i don't look at them as competition i think everyone had their own journey their own voice and their own experiences and i think we still think with all the conversations we had our conversations are still different from everybody else's so just important you know family mental health um you know the everything that comes along in this journey and and you know we've been able to

transition from not just a sports show to just kind of a more of a culturally relevant show. You know, we're talking to the Kevins and the Wills and the Jadas and the Jamies and the VPs. So I just think, you know, high-level conversations with high-level people and, you know, being able to be celebrated with that. I mean, if I'm not mistaken, we're the first podcast with the coffee table book. Absolutely.

So I think it's a tremendous opportunity. We're very thankful for it and hope that everyone checks it out. I named a couple of names. I want you to tell me what you thought of the interviews. Don Staley. Well, a lot of people don't know, that's when I've been with my favorite female player

of all time. My rookie year, I wore 24 because of Don Staley. People don't know that. Yeah, and when I was in New Jersey. So it was an honor to me to be able to talk to her. You know, I never met her in person, so I can't wait to actually take a picture with her. But somebody I admired for a long time.

That's different. Like, what about her? I've never heard of Guy Field, a woman in basketball playing, influencing like that. Like, what about her influenced you? Well, her whole swag. Like, she had that rough park basketball style,

and she was one of the first females to bring it like A.I. You know, she wore baggy shorts. She did it her way. She talked the talk, walked the walk, had that rough park basketball style and she was one of the first females to bring it like ai you know she wore baggage shorts she did it her way she talked to talk walk the walk and you didn't see that from a woman in basketball growing up and then she was at a school that was a female school that was always on tv their basketball game was always on tv so that's what we said so that's what i've seen a lot no not same i mean just being a fan of her game and then how she's been able to transition and be a leader of young women and women, I'm always a big fan of that.

So, you know, being able to get to talk to her. And to me, honestly, and I'm sure you guys probably feel the same way, like we're fans of a majority of the people we talk to and getting a chance to get that in-depth, you know, to be able to peel back the layers and understand who they are as a person and how their upbringing brought them to be the people they are. I mean, that's always the joy and the journey of these conversations for me about the jamie foxx convo that happened during cold yo we laughed so hard before we even got on air bro it was incredible he was funny as hell jamie's great i mean to me

jamie's one of the most talented people this planet's ever seen his versatility across several different fronts is amazing on top of him just being a a really good dude man so that was that was a dope conversation. You have a lot of comedians that's funny when they're doing their work. A lot of them, some of them ain't naturally funny. You know what I'm saying? Jamie's just naturally funny. Like you said, like 45 minutes before we even turned the camera on,

he was in rare form. He was excited to be on the show as well. So that was one of the best ones. You know, Jack, you've dealt with a lot of grief over the last few years. Of course, George George Floyd your brother Sister how have you been dealing with that level of grief? Uh support system These guys you know my mom and sister It's been hard, but you know it's a part of life, bro

Too much is given much is required You know we all go we all I'm not going through nothing that half of y'all haven't been through, but it gets to a point where when it's somebody like your sister and brother, that's different. You know what I'm saying? That's different. So I haven't been the same, but it's a day-by-day process. Absolutely.

Thanks for asking. Absolutely. How did you guys know it was time to, you talk a lot about transition, that it was time to transition and lean into the podcast, the merch, just the business side of things. Was that a switch? It probably was planned, but when did you know, it's time to jump the fence now? The reason why, I left the NBA

the first year of a three-year deal. I happened to win a championship with Golden State and I wouldn't get a chance to see... I wasn't getting a chance to see my kids. It was kind of a perfect storm. We won a championship and I was ready to move. So I was just kind of excited.

And I think sometimes why athletes have a hard time transitioning because they don't get to leave on their own accord. Most of the time it's injuries or a reputation or just teams don't want to fuck with you no more. But, you know, I was someone that just, you know, I was in the midst of a contract and I'm just like, man, you know, this is a blessing we won. I want to I'm missing so much time with my sons. I'm my father first. So you know, that was my transitioning reason. And then once I transitioned, I'm like, damn, what's next?

You know, I had invested well, and you know, had some things moving, but I knew I still needed to find something to do. And, you know, media came knocking for both of us. And, you know, we kind of ran with it. So, I mean, Jack is the kind of guy that, you know, he trusts very few. So if you're in his trust circle, he's going to listen to you. And when I pitched him my idea, he trusted me to run with it and make it happen. And, you know, that's what I was able to do. I feel like even with sports networks,

y'all was before y'all time on that too. It seemed like when y'all was on it, they didn't want y'all to talk so freely. No. Especially you Jack, they didn't want you. Well, I mean, you know what? It seemed like everybody could talk freely. Now it seemed like they didn't want you to talk freely.

Because we did it anyway. You know, we did it anyway. I, you know, shout out to Woj, but I remember I was the first one to correct him on TV. You know what I'm saying? All the people like, damn, he correcting Roj? Yeah, because I got Jimmy Butler right on speed dial. Y'all making stuff up.

So like, we just being who we naturally are. You know what I mean? And I think that's what kind of took over when we was on TV and we did these shows. Not too many basketball players come up here and speak like that. And we was just being our natural self. We wasn't acting or putting on camera

then going off being somebody else. We the same person on and off camera. And I think too, a big thing was Stephen A. Smith, and whether you hate him or love him, I like Stephen A. Smith and he's been instrumental in kind of my journey. We talk often, but he was really big on stay off the weed and used to say that shit all the time

until I called him on it. And he listened to me. I called him out on social media after I seen it one too many times and then I'm on first take right at the docks talking about weed on ESPN like no one had ever done that before no athlete had ever done that before so I think to Jack's point it's just you know having real conversations and I think people are always going to respect that and I remember a ton of times and you know I was working for Fox and ESPN at the time where you know there's certain well this is the topic you know

do you want to say this I'm like no I don't want to say that you know I don't I wouldn't say that I don't talk like that this is how I'm going to want to say this? I'm like, no, I don't want to say that. I wouldn't say that. I don't talk like that. This is how I'm going to say it. You know what I mean? So, I mean, obviously I enjoyed my time at both networks and it kept my name fresh and allowed other opportunities to happen. But, you know, it's a little different walking on that side of media than it is on the media side that we landed on.

Any of those networks getting it right? I think so. I think, you know. All the smoke production is getting it right i think so okay i think you know i smoke production is getting it right yeah i think you know i think there will always be those big engines but i don't necessarily think you need them anymore you know what i mean that the digital switch is on the the athlete driven content is on and entertaining like everyone is experts that are now talking about it before it was other people always talking about what they saw, whether it be critics in music, television, film, or sports. But now you actually have the people talking about it.

So, again, I think there will always be the big ESPNs and Foxes and all that kind of stuff, but you don't necessarily need it anymore to get your point across, to have a platform, or to go viral. All right. I want to ask some basketball questions before y'all get up out of here. Clay Thompson, what you think about him leaving the Warriors? Do you think it was time for him to go? I think it's a breath of fresh air for him.

I mean, some guys need that during their career. You know what I mean? You played at a certain spot for so long. It's a bad feeling about it. I ain't won the last couple years. So a lot of times they're going to try to find somebody to blame it on. And it fell on Klay. You know what I'm saying?

Which is unfortunate because he's the reason why they have, a big part why they have all those championships over there. But this is how professional sports goes. Yeah, this is how it goes. And I think it's great for him because he's landed in the spot where he can do what he do best with two of the best one-on-one players ever in Kyrie and Luka.

He can spot up and shoot jumpers. So I think it's a great situation for him because I've been in a situation where I was somewhere and I needed to go to a different team to flourish and be a better player when I came to Golden State. So that's kind of the same for him. Is Klay a Hooper or a scorer? Klay is a Hooper. Hooper.

Yeah, he play on both ends. D-Rose retiring. Oh, man, hurt my soul. Where's the fair world to him? He deserves all that from me. You know what I'm saying? He's one of those guys, bro. I think, too. I mean, obviously obviously as great as we saw, you know,

the injury slowed him down. But everything we're hearing from him, as great as a player he was, he's a better person. And, you know, that's always something that's important to us. Definitely looking forward to sitting down with him one day. But I just think his impact on the game, how pure and real he was, will definitely be noted. But one of the greatest, I hate to say what ifs,

because obviously he gave us a lot while he was here, and was the youngest MVP of all time, but I couldn't imagine seeing him be able to stay who he was and get older and how much his game would have grown and developed. I think we missed out on something really special. He never did all this, Morgan. Not yet.

But what touches to his character that I admire, he got his wife and his kid's mother to get along and co-parent how they do it. They are mascots for that because they do it the right way. So salute to him for that. Hooper or scorer, D Rose? He's what? Is he a Hooper or a scorer?

D Rose, good question. D Rose or Hooper, I done seen a lot of chase down blocks. He competes on both ends. He's a Hooper. He's a Hooper. He's a Hooper. Who's the face of the league when LeBron leaves? And Steph leaves.

Who's the next face of the league, I should say? I think it might be by committee. I think Anthony Edwards is one of them. There ain't going to be one face like LeBron. You don't think so? Nah. Nah. I think it'd be by committee.

I think it'll be Ant. I think it could be a little bit of Jason Tatum. I think it could be some Luka. I think it could be some Shea Gilgis-Alexander. Ja, if he get his mind right. Victor Wiminyama. I think there's a lot of – I think the league is in a great place as far as just young talent, you know, like we haven't seen in a long time.

But it's funny you said that because I wish people would just appreciate the journey more. We're coming to the end of Ron and Steph and Katie and what they've done and what they've meant for this game. And still all the criticism and hate they get is just crazy. Because one day they're going to be here, but they're not going to be in the game anymore. And people are going to be like, damn, I miss them. I understand. And instead they're too busy trying to criticize and talk shit about Bronny and Katie's this and Steph can't do that.

Instead of just kind of enjoying what they've been able to bless the world with. WNBA. What are your thoughts this year? What a new excitement, new life. Sometimes the eyeing up front, it feels better than the NBA. What's your thoughts on WNBA? I think just the women's game is pure, man.

You know what I'm saying? They all play it the right way. It's refreshing to watch. It's good to see them start to get their money and get the attention that they deserve. I'm a hooper, so I'm all for, you know, anybody that's hooping, that's putting in that work, you know what I'm saying, that's grinded all these years to get to the top.

I'm happy that they're getting it just due. I think the growth of the game is tremendous. You know, the fact that we're talking about it and seeing it on ESPN and all the highlights and, you know, we're doing a piece that I'm excited about on Andrew Reese and Kaitlin Clark and just their dynamic that they brought to the game and the vehicle of new fans they brought. And you've heard kind of some of the good and the bad that have come with that. You know, Angel spoke out on just the negativity and the racism

that have come from some fans and kind of using them. Is that normal though? Because it seems like that's normal in the league. I'm sure that you guys have been called a million and one names. Absolutely, absolutely, absolutely. You get into a fight. Utah, Boston.

You played in Indiana, man. Utah, remember? Yeah, oh yeah. I just got in trouble in Indiana. That's back when you still had the space between your teeth. Yeah. Yeah, exactly. Yeah.

I do have a cardboard cutout under the goal with me in a jail suit. Oh, shoot. During the game. He didn't say nothing. He had that whole game. It was funny, too. We was all laughing. We signed it for him and all that.

Yeah. But I think the growth of the game is tremendous. I think it's going to continue to grow. It's got new eyeballs and new sponsorship and new money. And, you know, we just want to continue to celebrate them. You know, I think it's been such a, you know, a hit or miss with that, but just kind of understanding the lineage and where they are after 28 years, you know, it's arguably ahead of schedule of where the NBA was at year 28. So again, I think the impact of these new young stars have brought a lot more eyeballs and

attention. I hope they continue to carry it. You know, you got Juju coming down the pipeline, who's a monster. Paige. Paige, yeah. So I think that league is going to continue to grow and flourish and give something a lot of little girls, you know, something to look up to. You got to see it to believe it. You know what I mean? So you see that.

You see Kamala winning for presidency. I mean, you know, young girls, it's a great time to look up and see all the greatness ahead of them. Can Ja bounce back? Y'all had a great all the smoke with Ja the greatness ahead of them. Can Ja bounce back? Y'all had a great All the Smoke with Ja, right? Hell yeah. Can he bounce back? Of course he can.

I mean, that was the whole thing when it happened. I was saying, like, people act like you can't make mistakes. You know what I'm saying? Like, it happens. Everybody makes mistakes. They just don't make them on a level for everybody to see. So he definitely can bounce back, and I think he will. You know, I just think it's going to take him to make some decisions, too,

about the people he's around. Because I've made the same mistake, too. That's what I'm saying. We make those mistakes because, you know, we feel, you know, we've got to keep it real and all that at one point, but you've got to get to the point where you're keeping it right. You know what I'm saying? I think he's there now.

They don't let kids fuck up no more. Like, y'all wouldn't be where y'all are right now. They don't let black kids fuck up. Well, I just think, too, you've got to think, when we were fucking up, coming up'all wouldn't be where y'all at right now. They don't let black kids fuck up. Well I just think too, you gotta think, when we were fucking up, coming up, there wasn't cameras on us constantly. We could fuck up.

I remember the stud off I was doing in UCLA, I probably would've never made the NBA if I had cameras in my face. And then the early days in Golden State where we're out every single night drinking and smoking in every single city and fighting and doing God knows what, there was no cameras, you know what I mean? So as long as you could show up and play the game the next day,

there wasn't an issue. But now everywhere you move, whether you're filming yourself or other people are filming you, there's cameras on you. So you just got to be cognizant of that. That's funny because you would hear that. You'd be like, man, Matt Barnes be fucking people up. You'd be like, Matt Barnes? Like, Matt Barnes?

Matt Barnes? Hey, I don't know what to say, Matt Barnes. I don't know. We used to get down a little bit. That was it. Back in my early days. We appreciate you guys for joining us, man. You got another one?

I did, but I forgot it. Oh, oh, oh, oh. We were talking about John Morant. What's the biggest thing that you repeat all the time to the young players when they call y'all? For like real life advice. Like a John Morant. Me now is control your own narrative.

That's my thing, you know what I'm saying? Because during your career, they can post certain things on TV and then a lot of times the media for the team will tell you not to reply or not give you the platform to reply to get what they saying about you correct, right? So now they're in a position where they have their phones, they have their social media,

it's used the right way and control your own narrative. Whatever the media try to say something about you or try to say you said something to the team or accounts or something, you can clear it all up on your page, your own social media, so they can hear it from the horse's mouth. So control your own narrative. I think that's important, too. And then I got 15-year-old sons that are coming down the pipeline.

And just for these young players to understand that they're brands already. Like you are a walking brand as you speak. And to refer back to the young ladies caitlin clark and angel reese they had bigger brands arguably than what the wmba was at the time they came into it you know what i mean so understand your brand power and then what jay said i'm not a businessman i'm a business and like understand that you're really a business everywhere you move and you have to just you just have to unfortunately like you said there's nowhere room to fuck up because there's so many cameras on you so just understand every move you make and everything you say can affect your brand

there was a um speaking of your your kids you talk about your kid there was a video last year in november that went viral of you and derek fisher coaching the twins together that was a really that video was like i think the world was like oh wow 2015 everything before that right what was it like into that point where now we want to quit what it's important to do it me and fish squash that shit the summer after it happened like that shit happened at the beginning of one season and then the next summer once I found out he was around and then twins cared about him like we squashed it because it wasn't about my ex and I no more it was about trying to raise these young men so fish has been in the boys life for

almost half their life you know what I mean so we've always been and I was real enough that sit down and have a conversation with them like bro I'm still playing so you're gonna see my kids more than me I need you to teach them the ropes right while I'm not around so to me you know once I got over and once we talked about how I didn't agree with the move and it could have went a different way like it wasn't about saving that it was about harvesting and we got to raise two young black men so I mean I think he's done a great job I tip my hat to him all the time I mean he's he's their second dad and he you know I coach him in the summer during AAU and he coaches them during high school so I mean when people see us they still kind of trip out but like we are our beef was for a season wasn't even that long love that for y'all yeah it's easy to

squash beef when you win the fight y'all got some shows, right? Live show today. Yep. Yeah, wherever this drops. Well, Philly. So Philly's the bar? The 9th. Philly's the 9th. So tonight in New York, the 7th in New York.

So they may miss it, but tonight in New York, if you're around, Gramercy Theater, we got the one and only Larry Johnson. Ram-ma-ma. And then, yeah, in Philly, Wednesday night, with a million dollars worth of game and a really special guest coming through with them man so we're excited to be on the East Coast. Jim Jones, Davies

all of them said they was pulling up so I'm looking to see you out in Philly. Is it going to be AI in Philly? How'd you know? We're going to see. Is that real? That's what's happening? We're going to see. I saw Paul George so Paul just hit me yesterday and said he couldn't come. Oh got you. But is it? Because I'm guessing right now but is it? because I don't come to Philly for that

as long as we get him up on the airplane he'll be here I don't come to Philly for that the AI all this work conversation is probably my favorite AI conversation and he's different I don't think people understand how passionate how much he loves life

and how much he loves people. You know what I mean? And we try to tell him all the time, bro, you gotta talk. People love you to death and they just wanna know how you are, they wanna know what you think. And so we're slowly getting him to hopefully sitting down and having his own thing one day.

But. Yeah, that's our dog. How'd Chuck get so cool? Jack, y'all real cool. I played with Chuck. He played with him. But doing, so you know, I'm just one of those guys, like, every time I played against Chuck, when he get to the city,

when his boys would call me and I end up in the club with him hanging out, you know what I'm saying, from city to city. And he lost a friend named Jamal a couple years ago that passed from counseling. Me and him was real close. And during that time, you know, I stepped in, you know what I'm saying, and I tried to help him out a lot. So we just became brothers during the playing the playing time yeah I was with him early

my big brother you know I got traded with Chris Webber out to Philly early in my early 2000s and Chuck gave me a car right off the whip or off the rip and told me if I needed so it was just like this is Allen Iverson just give you a car to drive around it was like one of the Mustangs when the Mustangs first came out the two-door Mustangs he let me push that thing for a couple months just whatever you need bro just let me know i'm just like damn had the applebee's popping right now man no it's friday used to really be popping bros we used to get off the plane at 2 30 in the morning i wasn't playing so i didn't give a but he would have limos for us to go to atlantic city and go chill all night you know i mean have the penthouse the the lewis at 13 like how the is all this free i learned later that you had to give a little bit of money to the casino to

to get all that for you know but chuck was he was just one of them rare dudes like you said that that enjoyed life and then gave it his absolute all on that court if people would see how he used to walk around on off days or in practice with big old elbows and hips all bruised up and then as soon as it you know that popcorn starts popping about 6, 6.30, a different light turns on and he becomes an animal, man. He love hard, too. He love hard. That's what people don't understand.

You don't get people of that caliber that loves everybody in that genuine way. That's why it's kind of weird to people. Yeah, that's right. Salute to Bubba Chow. That conversation is in the All the Smoke coffee table book, which is out right now. All the stars, all the stories, no apologies. Go get it.

That's right. It's the Breakfast Club. Good morning. Wake that ass up in the morning. The Breakfast Club.