The Breakfast Club - INTERVIEW: Maverick Carter & Paul Rivera Talk 'The Shop,' LeBron James Retirement, Jay-Z, Rich Paul +More

Episode Date: March 27, 2024

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Had enough of this country? Ever dreamt about starting your own? I planted the flag. This is mine. I own this. It's surprisingly easy. 55 gallons of water, 500 pounds of concrete. Or maybe not. No country willingly gives up their territory. Oh my God.

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Morning, everybody. It's DJ Envy, Jess Hilarious, Charlamagne Tha God. We are The Breakfast Club. We got some special guests joining us today. Yes, indeed. From the shop. No, I said the shop. From the shop, we got Matt Riccardo and Paul Rivera.

Welcome, fellas. Thank you for having us. What's up? What's up? What's up? How y'all feeling? Feeling fantastic. Thank you for having us. Yeah. up? What's up? What's up? How y'all feeling? Feeling fantastic. Thank you for having us.

Yeah. How long y'all known each other? We met in 2009, I'm going to say. Yeah. At Nike. P was working at Nike. I started my career at Nike as an intern a long time ago, 27 years. Mm-hmm.

P was then, I don't know what year you started working then. Yeah, 07. 07. And then we met in 08, 09, around that. But it's like dog years when you spend so much time with someone. So what did y'all do at Nike? And is it Nike or Nike? I never, I never.

It's Nike. It's Nike. What did y'all do at Nike? I don't work there, but people always say the check. They don't, it's the swoosh. They always say the swoosh. The swoosh. They always say the check.

But I was an intern in 2001. Then I was a consultant. Then they employed me. I dropped out of school and started working there. And I worked in sports marketing. Yeah, my last job at Nike, which is how we met and got tight, was I was the global marketing director for the LeBron brand. So in the off season, we'd take global athlete tours,

take Bron to China and Madrid and do all those things. So as I said, dog ears because you spend a lot of time together. You know, I read Rich Paul's book and Rich Paul talks about how, you know, Bron didn't know what he wanted his team to do. He just was like, yeah, I'm going to figure something out. So that was your thing. Matt, let me go to Nike. My thing was I met a gentleman who is responsible for my career named Lin Merritt. A gentleman.

The General. The General as we call him. Worked at Nike for 30 years. Amazing, amazing man. A black man who I met. We started talking. Took a liking to me and was like offered me an internship and to your point at that moment

I was 19 so Lebron would have been 16 um i was like shit this is an opportunity i'm just in college this is an opportunity to further my education i was playing basketball and when i got there i was like i want to learn here and i was like this is my dream job we all know like you guys in my family, I was like, this is a good ass job. This shit comes with benefits. That's what parents say, jobs with benefits. That's all mom's got.

You can go get something done at the dentist if you need it. That's all that matters. It's a good ass job and I get to learn and I get to be able to provide something back to LeBron and his team eventually when he becomes LeBron.

That was the thinking. How did you know LeBron since he was 16 and 19? Did you grow up with each other? I met LeBron when I was – he came to my eighth birthday party. He was five. My dad and mom were friendly with his stepfather and mom. Because where we lived on the north side of Akron, it's a hill called Howard Street Hill.

I lived in the housing on top of the hill. The top of the hill is like a low-income neighborhood where I live. At the bottom of the hill is literally the project. So at the bottom of the hill, that's where LeBron lived. And it's literally called the bottom. And I think about that now as I've gotten older. If you ask LeBron and he knows you from Akron where you're from, he would say the bottom because and i think about that now as i've gotten older like damn it's like if you ask lebron and you he knows you from akron where you're from he would say the bottom but he's referencing the projects that are at the bottom of this hill but it's also at the bottom

of socioeconomic life and everything so he was from there i was from there so we lived basically in the same neighborhood i just lived in the houses he lived in the projects at the bottom of the hill and how did y'all get tight since he was so many years younger than you we he was always taller so he didn't look so he didn't look like he was 5 he didn't look 5 his ears looked like he was 17

and he was always exactly like he is smart and thoughtful so he could hang so he would hang and then he started moving around he actually left a neighbor his mom him and his mom hang. So he would hang. And then he started moving around. He actually left a neighborhood. His mom, him and his mom is a number he would have to tell you. They moved like nine times or something before the fourth grade,

bouncing around. And then we reconnected when he was in middle school. I was in high school. By then he was like the best middle school player in the city. So he was always good in basketball at that age. Yeah. By the time he was 13, 14 in Akron, everybody

knew of him and his teammates, by the way, who became my friends and ended up being my teammate. And they came to the high school I was at. Give them the MVP. That's funny. I am still, I would never bring this up unless he made

me. I always say this to LeBron I'm the only player who's ever played on his team who won the MVP and not him Was he a player? Was he a player? He was a freshman I was a senior

he was a freshman and to his credit he did average one more point than me. He averaged 18. I averaged 17. But I got player of the year. Because you was a senior. Because they gave it to you because you was a senior.

I think so. So you ain't deserving. So he really was messing with you. Where do you get your demeanor, though, man? Because you have a royal air. Royal? Yeah, you talk like a royal sometimes. Really?

Yeah. Even your sweater. Even your sweater. It's a royalty. It's a UK. It's a UK. It's a royal sometimes. Really? A royal? Even your sweater. Even your sweater. It's a royal too. It's a UK. It's a UK. It's a royal. I thought you were

from over there too because I was like, oh, he must be from UK. I was like, I'm Maverick Carter. I got to go to work sweater. I got to go to work sweater. Just say your sweater

gave a royal. I'll take it though. I'll take that. There's nothing wrong with it. My demeanor is a cross between my mom and my dad my mom is super chill easy going woman

and my dad is doesn't shut up gets ignorant and I had a thing with my dad that I really had that one time telling my dad was this guy once at the time I moved I, I was living on my, I was 26, had my own place, renovated the shit.

And he would still come in my house and like, and like, you know, like you walk in the house, you take your shoes off. And you might do that on Monday and you might not touch those shoes again. And you're like, I'm going to leave these at the door. I might fuck with him again later in the week. He might come in my house and he's the same. And I come out and he came in. My shoes are gone.

So I had to tell him, like, yo, my man, listen. I will always, always be your son. But I am not your kid anymore. If you come in my house, you don't pick up things and take shit without telling me. You don't. There's rules in my house. And I'm fine if you don't like the rules. You don't come here. I'll visit you at your house.

But my dad is that guy. So that's how you got that mark right there. Your dad pushed you down. One of Mav's best qualities is what you're picking up on is he's very non-emotional. And I mean that in a good sense, in a business sense. He can make very rational, calm decisions. I run hot. He's normally going toemotional, and I mean that in a good sense, in a business sense. He can make very rational, calm decisions. I run hot.

He's normally got to talk me off the ledge, but I think that's one of his biggest skills, and that's probably what you're picking up on. Always calm, always cool, always can make a decision with the right considerations. He doesn't really often, you know, a lot of us get emotional. It's not his thing. He's always had that since I've met him before. It feels like y'all always have like a really like, like airtight click. So how does somebody like Paul get in, get in that mix?

Um, I don't know. Is that for you? That's for me. I think, you know, it's, it's always been to your point, very airtight in the sense that we love each other. We believed in each other and we took this journey of growing together. That was the key, right? Me, LeBron, Rich, Randy, they've all grown together in every facet of our lives. We've been friends for over two decades now as LeBron being a pro athlete. We've all had kids.

Kids have grown up. We've seen, uh, grow up, grown to be husbands, fathers, boyfriends, friends. And then we also grew in business too, but we always kept those two things running parallel to each other, but separate meaning, meaning I always tell people when me, LeBron, Richard, Randy are together, even to this day, it's not business 24-7. It is very like, okay, guys, we have to sit down and discuss this issue we're having or this thing we need to solve, this opportunity that's in front of us. But then most of the time, we're at LeBron's house playing cards, eating food, whatever, hanging like friends would. And I think he fit that same thing too.

He fit that mode of like, oh, this is a guy that's like us, has a very similar background to me. Me and Pete have a very similar background. Our dads both spent time in the federal penitentiary. On the way to college. On the way to college. As I was told as a kid that they were waiting for vacation yes and and but he also was intelligent and also knew how to grow and was always growing as a as a

friend but also in business too so i think he fit right in to be a person that was a lot like us in the sense that as friends and as business partners we were growing and kept going the journey with us i don't know if you want to add anything you know i the journey with us. I don't know if you want to add anything. You know, I think from day one, I don't know if you remember when I first took the LeBron job at Nike, you know, I asked you what I needed to do to be successful in this role. And you said I was already doing it by even asking the questions. And I remember the one thing you said was, don't ever lie to us, right? Meaning, and not even lying, like even on some business shit, it was like, if you know something's not good,

come to me and tell me, yo, Mav, I know this isn't great, but it's the best I got right now. And he's like, and I got you. I'm always going to hold you down, right? And I think I've never taken the relationship for granted. I've never, you know,

Mav's my best friend. Mav's son's my godson. Mav's my boss. And I don't confuse those things, right? I don't confuse those things. Mav's my business partner. He's the boss and i don't confuse those things right i don't confuse those things as my business partner he's the ceo of the company chief brand officer um i don't ever confuse those things or take them for granted right so when it's playtime or we're having a good time and we're drinking wine and too much wine or too much lobos and doing the thing all

day and when it's work time it's like yo i gotta run some things by you what do you want to do and i think we all treat it that way he's treated he treats it that way with lebron you're 21 you know what i'm saying i think there's just a um the highest level of respect accountability and honesty with each other and even when an issue may pop up because you have those things you're discussing them early before they actually become issues i think that's been like great for us i always wanted to know like when you have somebody like a lebron or even or in any industry, and that artist is your friend or, you know, LeBron the basketball player is your friend.

When he has a problem with somebody, do y'all have a problem with somebody? Is it that type of brotherhood? Like, if that was the case, me and Charlamagne would have a problem with everybody. I feel like I got a problem with everybody. But in that case, is that the same thing with you guys' business? That's a great question in the sense that, like, that comes up, right?

Meaning, you know, back in the day, you had a beef with Deshaun Stevenson, and it may be on the court, right? So I think if he has a problem with someone, the first thing we do is, first off, we're not at all afraid to say if he's wrong. Doesn't mean we will tell the world. We will say, yo, that's a little... We were having this discussion yesterday

with one of us who was saying something. We were like, yo, you're wrong, man. You're going the wrong way on this. So that's number one. Number two, if there is a problem with LeBron has a problem when he had a problem with Deshaun Stevenson yes it became

a problem with all of us that was a real issue that was a real issue because LeBron's not a shit starter by the way LeBron that is not his nation he's not he'll get in like if way. LeBron, that is not his nature. 100%. He's not.

He'll get in. Like, if you want to go there, he'll do it. But he never starts anything. He's really thoughtful and really observant and sees everything. In fact, I always tell him he'd be a much better caseworker than basketball player. He sees everything. He's the guy that, like, you know, like, you go to his house, have dinner. He'll be like, your envy, three cookies?

You're like, you got a chef here that's making cookies. Let me eat a cookie and like get the hell off my case. But anyway, so he sees everything, but he's not a shit starter. But like in that instance, it definitely was a thing that deshaun made a thing and then one day i was actually at i was in spain actually it was a pre-season game between the wizards and the hornets i was with chris paul we were out in spain and they acted like they really wanted to do something to me like a couple of wizards players like where i felt like nothing happened but you know how you be like i was in a club in Spain. That's his man.

That's his man right there. Yeah. Deshawn and two guys. I was by myself. I was with Chris. They made me laugh. I was just hanging. It was packed in Barcelona.

And nothing happened. But you know, they made me feel like I had to go to the bar and order two beers. And I don't even really drink beer. Empty them out. Just give me a bottle. Right. I'm not royal. I'm not a royal. I'm not a royal.

I'm not a royal. Okay. I'm not a royal. I came out. Let the sweater pull you. So, yeah, if LeBron has a problem with someone on the court, it could. But sometimes it doesn't. Like, you know, because basketball thing could be like they had an issue.

He fouled somebody too hard. They fouled him. It's an issue tonight. And then it's all good after the game, whatever. But if it's a real thing that carries on, then it could be. Because as one of the goats in the basketball league, somebody's going to have a shot, right? They always take shots because they always want to take shots at the guy

that's on top. So it must happen all the damn time. And I know a lot of times he won't reply, but do y'all ever feel like, well, he ain't gonna reply, but I'm going to reply. No,

that's not our style. No, that's not our style. My whole thing is just keep it consistent, right? Like keep it consistent. Um, and I think I will,

I'll never speak for Brown, but I think even you guys, right, you know, like it comes with the territory of being in the public eye. So, you know, you deal with it. I think it's when it crosses the line and it becomes personal. You're doing those types of things.

You know, I came in, I won't say the name, you know, this, I, I bumped into someone, a media personality, and they were talking super reckless. Actually talking reckless about you when you did the commencement speech, right. You can figure out who it was, USC. And for me, that crossed the line. Cause it was like you know that's not you know so when i saw the person i i didn't have a problem with him or anything like that but i'm also not cool with you and the person came up to me and was like yo what's good love everything y'all doing

i have a problem with that right i have a problem with that and i just told him i'm like yo like don't do that he's like what do you mean i'm like just keep it consistent like you took when he was like nah you know that's just for the thing i'm like nah that's not that's not what we do so i think to mab's point we're never going to start we're not you know we're businessmen with dads at the same time just keep it consistent and um you know there are lines that shouldn't be crossed just as men last question about the show i gotta find out after this the jay-z song agitate that situation when Jay-Z did that freestyle? Yeah, yeah, yeah, for sure.

And Jay called me. I'll never forget. He freestyled that for sure. He called me one night. Late at night, I was in Ohio, and Jay was on tour. And he had just got off the stage in Oakland. Because he was too Oakland. Yeah. He called me.

He was like, he just, he was like, I can still hear him like breathing hard. He just goes, he was like, yo, I was on stage. And he came up with that shit on stage in Oakland. Jay came up with that, got off stage, called me. He was like, yo, I got this and rapped it to me through the phone. I was like, shit. And I knew right away like, oh, this is going to make this thing that this thing is going to... And I was like,

let's go. And he put it out, I don't know, like a week later, and of course, that course elevated it. There's a place in his day. There's a mad verse y'all haven't heard. You got 16 on that? No chance.

How instrumental has Jay been in y'all growth as businessmen? And just men, period. One of the two, three most important people in our lives, both

personally and professionally, because we were fortunate enough to start hanging with Jay about the same time I had that internship. I was 19, Brahm was 16 when we first met Jay in Chicago. I always remember how long it was because the first time we met Jay, we met Biggs and Tata first first and then we went up to see Jay in his room at the Ritz

and when he came down the stairs he was rapping H to the, H to the, is oh and he was like yo I just let, and they started talking about he was like yo I got the hit, I got the single for the album, so he, Blueprint wasn't out yet, right then and we, everything I got the hit. I got the single for the album. So Blueprint wasn't out yet. It was right then.

And we, everything, not just Jay, but his whole crew, we looked to them and modeled our thing. Like that's what we want to be like for sure. And we modeled. So everything we did, thought, do, think is modeled and thought about that. And then we all became separately personal friends with Jay. We all have personal, separate relationships with Jay

that have ebbed and flowed over years, meaning that spent a lot of time, whatever, but it's always been personal and professional. Professional in the sense that we modeled it and studied and learned.

And personally, because we all became personal friends with him, I can call him and go see him. And Randy has a relationship with him and LeBron has a different relationship than I do. And we all have these relationships with him that go back and forth. We're all in a group text with him with P now. So we're always talking and laughing.

And did somebody hear this new song? And what are you thinking at talking music, talking business, talking life sports is a big connection for us. own a suite at sofi with jay together so been extremely instrumental and it's dope to this day you know when we do something business-wise i'll be like i see y'all yeah it's always dope like he's the big homie like so that's nice yeah he shows let's talk the shop so why does season be so short? He's in charge of the show.

Oh, now you're going to take it. He said, I'm the boss. I get those. But he's in charge. Because y'all know people want more. I mean, it's probably a good thing

that you leave people like wanting more, but they'd be short. How many episodes we going to get this season? Yeah, so, you know,

that's the most consistent feedback we have for sure. I think if I had to pick, I'd want people to want more than be like, why y'all still up here, still talking? Yeah. We film, Charlamagne's been on an episode.

You had a great episode, actually. Kevin Hart, Kevin Love, Lil Nas X. Lil Nas X and CJ McGonigal. They're wrong, right? They both were. Yeah, yeah. Look, the episodes, we got lost in the episodes, meaning, and you can speak for it.

It's like we're there. We tape for an hour and a half, two hours sometimes. But we found the model works a little better when we're shorter. So, you know, 30, 35 minutes. I think Mav's only, you know, point on this thing is let's just make sure the content should dictate how long the episode is. Yeah. So if we have a great hour episode, great. If we have a great 27-minute episode, great.

But that's the most consistent feedback we get for sure. But I think that to his point, the person who has the hardest job and is the most talented job for the show is the editor. Because as you guys know, the editor of this show, you're sitting in a room with five six people the conversation goes this way it goes that way it goes this way it goes that way and the editor has to

string that together so when you watch it it feels like one because in the room we're doing all type of shit you know last episode Nelly had to pee in the middle of it so to get that continuity and to string it together, it's really hard. The editor is amazing to be able to pull that together.

That's very hard because you may start a thought. He may jump in. You may jump in. You may come back to that thought 20 minutes later like, oh, I got something to add to that. And then you've got to edit that together. So that becomes a very hard job of making it seem like one. It is one conversation conversation but make it have continuity through the what made y'all start the shop like what was the the reason for we are tied

bored or no i i'll tell you you know similar a conversation like this i was i found myself in rooms uh with people who i respect um and was learning you know i made the comment i said i learned more in some of these rooms than i did in like my formal education right um and my point was like man i could have used a lot of this information when i was 17 right so it was like you know what can we create that allows people the 17 year old versions of pr and mav um to be a fly on the wall right it was supposed to be a podcast at first and then i took it to randy one of our other partners and as partners often do he made the idea better and was like yo like we should actually make it like in a shop and have real barbershop conversations so i think the beauty of it is it was never intended to be a show it was never

intended to be this franchise this brand is anything um it was trying it came from an inside of like man like what if we can broaden these conversations for our communities and younger the younger versions of us and it's grown into what it's grown into. You couldn't be any prouder of it. I want to ask you guys a question, though. Our first episode, season seven, you just referenced Nelly. As experts, you heard Nelly say his era, hip-hop, was the toughest era, most competitive.

You guys agree? You guys disagree? I agree. With the names that he said. Yes. Hell yeah, I agree. It depends what you're talking about. If you're talking about music and business and sales-wise, yes.

Lyrically, I don't think so. Yeah, I know. Yeah, if you're talking lyrics, I don't think that was the toughest era. I think he was talking about selling. Yeah, I think he was talking about selling. Lyrically, which era would you say? I mean, I would say the 94. Probably like that whole 94 era when you first got Nas,

when you first got Big, when you first got Jay. Like, that's when Wu-Tang, like, that to me, that would be that era. So Jay thought before that. The 80s? The, like, late 80s. The 80s, Kane, Coogee Rap. That wasn't my era. How old are you?

45. Yeah, I'm 42. I remember it, but I was little. I remember it, but I was little. I remember it, but I didn't live it. Yeah, I didn't live it. Jay would say that. He would say Rock Kim, Coogee Raps, Kane. Yeah, Big Daddy Kane.

That's what he said, literally. That's to your question. Nah. I mean, I'm from New York, so that era was heavy. The Coogee Raps, the Rock Kims, the Big Daddy Kanes. But there was nothing like the Jays the big the nas and and and i know we didn't live that late 80s era though they lived it like jay was he lived it we didn't live that era yeah biggie i mean during that time i mean because you could go back from back and forth the lyrics i did mixtapes back then and i and i remember and i still rap and I still play it now but it was nothing like the

Biggs, the Jays, the Nas. That's how I felt. It was Bow Wow, Romeo. It would get in. Bow Wow, one of your goats, Maverick. You can't front on Bow Wow. That's Ohio. You cannot front on Bow Wow. Bow Wow is a fantastic

and always been entertaining. Yes. I love Wow. Claim him. Bow Wow is a fantastic and always been entertaining. Yes. I love it. Nice gowns. Nice gowns. It's royal. That's a royal answer, you see? Yes, it is.

I like that. What was your answer to what Nelly said? What was your thought on that? Being from New York as well, I think that era, I think... You think which one? I think... Mid-90s? Yeah, I think so.

I think just but your point Charlamagne is the right one it's like depends what the metric is we're talking about we're talking about lyricism we're talking about

just successful records sold but the problem the reason why you can't do it on successful records sold because it's not apples to apples lyrics is apples to apples like who can really write songs

because based on records sold well then you have to track hip hop's growth as a genre like hip hop was just bigger Like who can really write songs because based on records sold, well, then you have to track hip hop's growth as a genre. Like hip hop was just bigger. Like the, the reason Nelly and Eminem and Jay could sell more than the people in the late eighties.

Cause hip hop was still under like, you know what I mean? It was a little unfair to talk about it, but there was no streaming. So it made it difficult. You had to go buy records. You had to go to the actual store it was a lot different and back then it's they didn't have the releases like they do now now

you could just write a record today and put it out tomorrow back then it was it was set up on a schedule it had to come out on a certain quarter and like you said besides Eminem you know Nelly J you had Nas you had DMX who was a beast during that time you had Ja Rule that was a beast at that time like you had heavy hitters. Maybe the biggest. Cash money. Stupid amount of money. You had those guys that were selling

records and like you said, they would never share a release date because you never wanted to share your sales with somebody. Those were the times. Nelly's interesting though because he was like the overachiever. Nobody had that expectation of Nelly. Zero. Including Nelly, if you ask me.

Nelly was like, I thought we'd make some money, open up a couple liquor stores. Even when he was selling that much, you were like, really? Yeah. You didn't expect that from him, for sure. I want to ask y'all something about the shop, because I can't remember if it's the shop or all the smoke. I can't remember which came first. Is your country falling apart? Feeling tired, depressed, a little bit revolutionary?

Consider this. Start your own country. I planted the flag. I just kind of looked out of like, this is mine. I own this. It's surprisingly easy. There's 55 gallons of water, 500 pounds of concrete. Everybody's doing it.

I am King Ernest Emmanuel. I am the Queen of Laudonia. I'm Jackson I, King of Capraburg. I am the Supreme Leader of the Grand Republic of Mentonia. Be part of a great colonial tradition. The Waikana tried my country. My forefathers did that themselves. What could go wrong?

No country willingly gives up their territory. I was making a rocket with a black powder, you know, with explosive warhead. Oh, my God. What is that? Bullets. Bullets. We need help! We need help!

We still have the off-road portion to go. Listen to Escape from Zakistan. And we're losing daylight fast. That's Escape from Z-A-Q-istan on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Hey guys, I'm Kate Max. You might know me from my popular online series, The Running Interview Show, where I run with celebrities, athletes, entrepreneurs, and more. After those runs, the conversations keep going. That's what my podcast, Post High is all about. It's a chance

to sit down with my guests and dive even deeper into their stories, their journeys, and the thoughts that arise once we've hit the pavement together. You know that rush of endorphins you feel after a great workout? Well, that's when the real magic happens. So if you love hearing real, inspiring stories from the people you know, follow, and admire, join me every week for Post Run High. It's where we take the conversation beyond the run and get into the heart of it all. It's lighthearted, pretty crazy, and very fun. Listen to Post Run High on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. forms and empowers all people to hopefully create better allies. Think of it as a black show for non-black people. We discuss everything from prejudice to politics to police violence,

and we try to give you the tools to create positive change in your home, workplace, and social circle. Exactly. Whether you're black, Asian, white, Latinx, indigenous, LGBTQIA+, you name it. If you stand with us, then we stand with you. Let's discuss the stories and conduct the interviews that will help us create a more empathetic, accountable, and equitable America. You are all our brothers and sisters, and we're inviting you to join us for Civic Cipher

each and every Saturday with myself, Ramses Jha, Q Ward, and some of the greatest minds in America. Listen to Civic Cipher every Saturday on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. So y'all, this is Questlove, and I'm here to tell you about a new podcast I've been working on with the Story Pirates and John Glickman called Historical Records. It's a family-friendly podcast. Yeah, you heard that right. A podcast for all ages. One you can listen to and enjoy with your kids starting on September 27th. I'm going to toss it over to the host of Historical Records, Nimany, to tell you all about it.

Make sure you check it out. Hey, y'all. Nimany here. I'm the host of a brand new history podcast for kids and families called Historical Records. Historical Records brings history to life through hip-hop. Each episode is about a different inspiring figure from history, like this one about Claudette Colvin, a 15-year-old girl in Alabama who refused to give up her seat on the city bus nine whole months before Rosa Parks did the same thing. Check it. And it began with me.

Did you know, did you know? I wouldn't give up my seat. Nine months before Rosa, it was Claudette Colvin. Get the kids in your life excited about history by tuning in to Historical Records. Because in order to make history, you have to make some noise. Listen to Historical Records on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Muhammad Ali, George Foreman, James Brown, B.B. King, Miriam Akiba. I shook up the world.

James Brown said, say it loud. And Akiba said, I'm black and I'm proud. Black boxing stars and black music royalty together in the heart of Zaire, Africa. Three days of music and then the boxing event. What was going on in the world at the time made this fight as important that anything else is going on on the planet. My grandfather laid on the ropes and let George Foreman basically just punch himself out. Welcome to Rumble, the story of a world in transformation. The 60s and prior to that, you couldn't call a person black.

And how we arrived at this peak moment. I don't have to be what you want me to be. We all came from the continent of Africa. Listen to Rumble, Ali, Foreman, and the Soul of 74 on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

It feels like y'all created the new media landscape of athletes having their own platforms. How important do you think that is to them contributing to their narratives and controlling their narratives now? I think, thank you for, Mike, when going back to the beginning of what you just discussed was in 2010 when we got killed and ostracized for LeBron doing the decision. And then in 2014, he essentially did the same thing, but he chose a new medium. Instead of being on TV, he wrote a letter. And he was also going back to Cleveland, which helped. But it was received much differently.

And then we started a company with that at the center of, like, athlete empowerment and really having athletes be in a place where they can tell their stories the way they like and how they feel. And it's gone really far, which is actually what we wanted. We wanted all the smoke to happen, and we wanted I Am Athlete to happen, and we wanted New Heights to happen, all these things. It's fantastic. We celebrate it.

We think it's amazing and are here for it. I think the idea of controlling your narrative sometimes gets misused in the sense that our ambition was always to tell stories, to tell amazing, amazing stories. It's not about necessarily like a politician who needs to get votes and control you and make people feel this way or that way about you. It's like telling your story, and some people can love it and some people may not. But the fact that all these things have come now is amazing to us and we celebrate it. And I think for us, it was always about building a company and a place and a brand that represented amazing stories and the ability to tell amazing stories and building a place that could work with athletes and give them the proper resources to tell these amazing stories and building a place that could work with athletes and give them the proper resources to tell these amazing stories.

And we've been fortunate enough to tell a lot of amazing ones from Muhammad Ali to Neymar to Naomi Osaka to obviously lots of things with LeBron and win Emmys. And we've been happy. But the thing we're most proud about is that all these now other athletes are doing it too. And we love that. I wanted to ask, because you mentioned when they made the decision to go to miami as a team it was different right because you guys changed the narrative for nba right meaning most players they're good players they stay on that team

forever win lose batter draw but you guys changed the narrative and saying hey these owners make decisions for us now we're going to make our own decisions to see where we want to go where we want to play with and that changed the nba forever how was that conversation as a team because i'm sure somebody on the team was like i don't know how this is gonna come across because y'all boss up was like well fuck it we're gonna do it our way i remember rich paul vividly being upset during the decision on twitter i remember that completely it gets interesting what you just said but Rich

he was right by the way for the thing he was saying and feeling but LeBron was right also and you know those two things can be mutually exclusive you don't have to have a right and a wrong two things can be right at the same time.

LeBron was right in the sense that here's the one thing LeBron, LeBron has a quality that Jay-Z has. I always tell people this. LeBron always knows what's right for him. It's a quality that I wish I had and would probably always. He just nails it all the time. He always nails it. Jay is like that.

Jay always knows, I'm going to do this song. I'm going to do this feature, not that feature. Like, why? He can't explain it to you. But if you ask LeBron, man, should I have chicken or fish tonight? He's like, how the hell do I know what you should eat? But he knows exactly in the most intricate hard time going back to cleveland i didn't i was like i don't think this is right like he was like i'm not going back to

akron i'm not going to the bottom anymore i'm done with the bottom i moved to la i did not go back actually but i thought it was not right because of the of dan gilbert the owner in cleveland like why that man said that he's all crazy. Why would you go back and help him? And he knew, and he said something to me. He says, Mavie, I'm in favor of progress over pride. Get rid of your pride. You're making a prideful statement. I was like, I am, and I'm going to make it again.

I'm like, I would not do that. I would have not ever went back to Cleveland. He knew that was right for him. So LeBron always was able to do that. And I think, you know, to your point, you said he changed what happens then.

But the fact of the matter is again, a bit like hip hop, the NBA has just gotten bigger, more talked about more players of like Kareem left the bucks and went to like players have done that before. That wasn't a new idea. Shag. But it just became bigger. You know, the conversions of LeBron, how big the NBA was.

We did the decision. All those things combined made it seem much bigger. But LeBron always knows. He has a sense, like a sixth sense of like, I should do this and not that. I mean, that's his greatest championship. Which one? Going back. Yeah, sure. That's the one. I mean, he's his greatest championship. Which one? Cleveland. Going back. Yeah, that's the one. I mean, he would...

That's a good question. Are all championships created equal? No. Your answer is no. No. Absolutely not. I always said if LeBron stayed 20 years in Cleveland, or 21 years, and had that one ring, I think the argument between him and MJ

wouldn't be what it is. What do you mean? I think people might give it up to Braun definitively. Oh, got it. You're saying that one ring means more than the four, you think? Yeah, absolutely. And I think Paul will agree. I think if he comes to New York and wins one in New York.

Don't get me in trouble. You know what they asked about the shot, Paul? What's up, baby? That was a risk right putting a active player and giving them a platform then um and letting them talk freely maybe so but to mav's earlier point ron is so clear and what makes sense for him and i think it's never um risk if it's authentic to you right like if you believe in what you're saying i think bron has always been very clear on what he wants to say how he wants to say it and double down on risk if it's authentic to you right like if you believe in what you're saying i think braun has

always been very clear on what he wants to say how he wants to say it and double down on it stand on business as the kids say um but uh it was one of the first of its kind i think look i think the shop is unique you know the barber shop as for men here the barber shop um isn't a new idea right i think what was different from ours was the diverse rooms and voices we put in a room and the conversations we have. What you won't hear in the shop is like, who's the best basketball player ever? I mean, it's LeBron, but neither here nor there.

Like, you know, you won't hear any of those things. He's not the best. He's the greatest of all time. No, come on, come on. We'll take it off. It's still Michael. It's still Kobe. Fair. There's another kid from Ak time. Nah, come on. We'll take it off. It's still Michael. It's still Kobe. Fair. There's another

kid from Akron you can put in there too. He was born in Akron. Steph Curry. Not in the GOAT conversation. Yes! Of all time? Ball stop. Of all time? Yes! Steph Curry revolutionized basketball. Steph's great to be clear. Greatest shooter of all time for sure.

And he beat Braun 3-1 in, for sure. Yeah. Yeah. And he beat Braun three to one in NBA finals. Well, Golden State beat, oh, beat Braun. He didn't play one. Yeah,

yeah, yeah. Thank you, Jess. That's going to be a good tussling. Just lean back in his chair. I love that. That's a good tussling.

I love that. I'm about to put my royal shirt on in this tussling. I love that. But no, I mean, look, the shop,

what makes it, the conversation is there, though. Yeah, no, but what makes it, what makes it different for me of the shop is just these conversations, right? The conversations we have.

And I think, you know, not Trent, but the product when you think about it is it all feels like an extension of the conversation we're trying to have with our community. Right. We view the shop not just as a show anymore. We view it as a brand or more importantly, as a platform to have those conversations. So like, you know, the men's grooming line was just an extension of those conversations. It makes sense. And you'll see more of it, right?

You'll see, you know, we've taken the shot from a show to live experiences, HBCU tour. I saw you on one of the tours, live city tour products, you know, experiences, all those things.

So, you know, we're treating it like a platform and want to make sure we're just authentic to like that barbershop experience. How do you pick your guests? Because not any and everybody can just get on the shop. You know what I mean? Like how do you guys scout out your guests? Well, we start with the idea of trying to get a room of people who will have an interesting conversation, like very interesting conversation.

So not all musicians are all athletes. Like how do you get people from different walks of life? Cause that is when you grew up going to the barbershop, like we all did the whole point of it was when you went to my barbershop as a kid, there'd be like the fireman, the city worker, the local drug dealer,

they were all there. And the conversation kind of ebbed and flowed and took these twists and turns. It would start off like talking about high school football. Then you might talk about NFL football. Then it might go into the politics of the city and what's happening with the mayor. And, you know, there was always the guy in there who was preaching like, we should be paying more attention to politics and education. So we try and bring that to life, that feeling of like,

these are all different people. You have the mom in there with her son. So women were always represented in the shop. So we try and always go like, okay, how can we create a room of diversity, different people, and also people who won't just agree with each other. My grandmother had a saying that I still say to this day.

I say it in the company all the time. If two people always agree, one person isn't needed. So we try and bring that in our company, but also in the shop always like to have a, it doesn't have to be an art. It's not an argument, right?

It's like an interesting conversation where, because to me, I always say all my friends, all the people I hang with are people that are almost eight or nine times out of ten when I sit and talk with them, they say something to me that I go, damn, I never thought about it that way. Those are the best type of conversations to me. That means I'm either learning something or you're pushing me to think about something differently. It doesn't mean I agree with you, but it just means I never thought about it that way. Damn, that's interesting.

I need to think. I was having a conversation with a writer yesterday, Wright Thompson. I don't know if you guys know Wright Thompson. Fantastic writer from Mississippi. And he's written this book on Emmett Till that I encourage everyone called The Barn. And it's very

awesome this book he's written and we had a, it was supposed to be an hour conversation when we were talking about his book he's wrote many books but this is his third book I think and he's a writer for ESPN a white dude from a little small town in Mississippi and I was learning so much

and he was pushing me to think, we went on for two and a half hours because I just kept going like, damn, you're right. I never thought about it that way. What about this? And we were just going back and forth and didn't agree on everything, and he was telling me about his – and, like, those are the best conversations. So we try and bring that feeling to the shop because that was the feeling I had

as a kid in the shop. A lot of the shit that I know and feel, my demeanor, comes from the barbershop I grew up in. Kareem's on the corner of Mildred and Howard. I grew up going there. Everything about me comes from that place. What's the difference between the shop and Mavericks with Mav Carter? Or even now LeBron's show with J.J. Reddick.

What's going to separate those three shows? Great question. LeBron's show, I don't know if you guys have watched it. A new episode comes today or tomorrow. Too high level for me. I was about to say. That is not for the casual basketball match. It is two scientists.

Mind the game, LeBron and J.J. Reddick is like watching two scientists talk about mixing chemicals in a laboratory or two wine sommeliers talking about the soil. So that is a very – it's so deep, in fact. When you watch it, there's a key for like when they use a term that you have to –

and listen, I played basketball at a pretty high – I played Division I basketball in the Mid-American Conference. So I feel like I know basketball really well, and I can keep up. But when they talk, I have to sometimes go, guys, what does that mean? Some of the terms... And then when I...

Then when they say the term, I'm like, okay, I know what that is. That show is about basketball. J.J. and LeBron are both super high-level, like genius- about basketball. JJ and LeBron are both super high level, like genius level basketball, but they do bring it to a level where JJ does mostly to a level that is digestible. And if you love hoops and you want to get smarter about hoops and watch the

game and understand it in a different way, that show is for you. That show is for you. And they, that show came out last week, the first episode. They're going to do an episode. It's going to get great. They eventually will bring guests on, like coaches, other players.

But that show is going to be the place anybody in basketball who wants to go and show, I also know basketball very well. My show is a much different show. Shout out to KP who runs the Spring Hill brand, who pushed me to do it. I did not want to do it. Not because of any other reason, but besides I have enough jobs all fucking ready.

But it's all about bringing on people who one-on-one will force me to have a conversation where I go, damn, that's interesting. So I had Shonda Rhimes on, who I am a fan of her, but I never watched all of her shows. I am not like a Shondaland who's seen every episode of every show. But I also go into every episode, not, you guys do this every day, every single day.

I don't do it every day. But I don't overly prepare. And the reason i don't do it every day but i don't overly prepare and the reason i don't overly prepare is because i want to let my actual curiosity just guide me through that conversation just naturally i don't want to know too much about you because i actually sit there i had jay shetty on who i'd never heard of before he came on the show now i i learned so much from him and talking to him. That's our guy. That's great. So that show is about bringing on people who are the most interesting people in the world to me,

and I'm personally interested in learning from, and hopefully the audience will learn as I learn with them. And the shop, which is the oldest version of it, is obviously multi- there's many people on the show, and it's about community in the sense that we're all part of a one big community but bringing people together that from all walks of life to push and challenge and laugh about different topics what was what was your experience

like on the shop as a guest oh i loved it yeah it felt like exactly how you said it just felt like a kickback and you could actually get too loose and get lost in conversations. You know? And I got introduced to a fantastic wine, South of Cali. Lovely wine. I've been buying it ever since. I think one for me, like the greatest compliment I've ever been paid on the shop was when we had Jay on. And Jay was sitting to my left like Jess is.

And we're talking and doing what we do and and jay kind of looks over at me he's like yo when do we start recording and i'm like we've been recording for 20 minutes all right and it's like it just let me know that we're having an organic conversation that you never hear similar you never hear action you never we're having a conversation i think that's when you get the good stuff right you guys are the best at it it's like when you get the good it was just conversation doesn't feel like a Q&A or an interview. I just got two more questions. No. Was HBO ever necessary?

Absolutely. HBO was a fantastic partner. HBO validated the shop because HBO in my humble opinion it's not the same anymore, which saddens me a bit. HBO was the Louis Vuitton of TV and media. It was the Porsche of TV and media.

It was Nike. It was one of those brands. Top of the top, yeah. When you were on HBO it meant like shit that's an HBO show

when I said to you are you watching blah blah blah blah it's on HBO you're like oh

and all the other networks have had good shows and hits but HBO getting that stamp I told

one time I told the CEO of HBO Richard Plepler at the time I said us having the shop on HBO is like getting

your own sneaker at Nike. And he said, I'm going to use that in the boardroom. I said, that's what HBO means. You have a show on HBO, it's literally like, oh, I got my own shoe from Nike. So it definitely matters. Yeah, people ask me, I'm like, no one needs the New York Yankees,

but they validate you, you're a New York Yankee, right? And I think for us to answer your question, Charlemagne, like we learned a lot from them. They were great, a great partner for us, learned a ton in take it on our own and grow our own audience and explore other opportunities. But they were a great partner for us. I think if we could do it all over again, we've said we'd do it again. We do. You know, they were absolutely the right move at that time. Yeah. And my last question, it feels like 21 years has gone by very quickly.

Nobody, nobody expected 21 years. I don't, you don't, you don't, not at this level. So when did y'all start up when did y'all start setting up for life after basketball um uh probably in year four not not in a like not in a way of like what are we gonna do when basketball is over more so like i tell people i left nike and lebron was like yo i want you to come help me find my agent come work with me did that for the first i mean not now any not anymore but probably as recently as like three or four years ago. But definitely at the beginning,

I said, I started to think my first name was LeBron's and my last name was Friend. Hilarious. That's how I got introduced to LeBron's friends. I was like,

damn, my last name is Friend and my first name is LeBron's. Four years ago, they were still doing that? Nah. I mean, not in a way,

like, not in a way like that. That's why I corrected myself at the beginning. But still, for sure, some people go, oh, this is mad. They won't say friend anymore. They dropped the friend, which is. So I would say we didn't start talking about it in a way that was like, what are we going to do when basketball is over?

We got to be very tactical and thoughtful. It wasn't like that. It was actually just more like pure human emotion and a bit ego too of like me, Rich, Randy going like, we're going to work until we're no longer introduced as LeBron's fans. Like that was a big part of it. That actually, I think I still I'm almost sure I still have that chip and LeBron was completely he was the

ringleader like yo I want you guys to it's funny he talks about now he's like he'll say to me now or to Rich I wanted you guys always to be your own become your own men but I never knew it would turn into so much I don't even see you guys always to go be your own become your own man but i never knew it turned into so much i don't even see you guys i need you to come back i don't even see like we used to hang like

we don't because we work so much but so it was more like that like that feeling of like and then and then strategy and tactics obviously how we thought about it became a thing. Rich found his lane and became the best agent in sports. It was never going to be my thing. I liked being more of an entrepreneur doing other things. And Randy found his lane always being in charge of everything, LeBron, LeBron's chief of staff. But actually talking about post-basketball, the first time I had a conversation of really post-basketball LeBron,

the first time he said the word retirement to me was five weeks ago. First time I've ever heard him say the word. Man, we should sit down and talk about retirement. He had never said that to me. And we actually, I was like, oh, shit, I guess we should. So we'd never, and we sat down and was like, okay, here's all the things to think about. There's this, there's media.

Do you want to, you're never going to call games. Do you want to do more stuff in media? Team owner. And we're like, let's just lay it all out and you can think about it. But literally, I was, I can look back. They were in Houston playing the Rockets because I flew to Houston. I was in Houston already, and I flew, and I went and saw him. First time he ever mentioned the word retirement.

Let's talk about retirement. You know what the headlines are going to say. Maverick says LeBron talks retirement, so this might be his last season. That's what the headlines are going to be. After he heard Charlemagne the God say, LeBron is actually going to play 10 more years to prove Charlemagne the God. He's one of the all-time greats. No, he is one of the all-time greats.

Did you realize you were spoiled in that moment? What do you mean? When he said five weeks ago he was going to retire and you have a look and you're like, isn't it normal for somebody to play 21 years? You know? Isn't it normal? It's not normal for anybody to do. It's hard to do anything for 21 years.

At this level. And when you add the level, when you add the toll. I think if LeBron didn't have to play road games, he might play 10 more years. He could play 10 more years. What's really worrying on him is to travel leaving family leaving his house you know waking up in a hotel in milwaukee and he's like why am i here again he would tell you like why am i here again and you a billionaire already and i got a lovely house and a wife and kids in la and i'm and he would tell you but the minute

he walks into the arena and the lights come on he's like oh yes this is why I'm here but in that hotel in Indiana in March he's like what the fuck am I doing here why am I here I always tell people that's the hardest thing like to be that guy that long

and to really still go out there and play basketball and like it's clearly not about the money like if anybody basketball. And, like, it's clearly not about the money. Like, if anybody thought he was playing for money, it's clearly not. But I think I realized I think I'm definitely spoiled because I've been up close and personal to see a person who is so dedicated, so committed for so long. So I've been able to see a person who is so dedicated, so committed for so long. So I've been able to see that.

And I was spoiled, jaded, a bit naive to like, oh, this is how it's supposed to go. It's not. But then I think as fans, I sometimes am like, even when I'm in L.A., sometimes I'm like, shit, I worked all day. L.A., the traffic is a beast, as we all know. I got to drive all the way downtown. But I'm like, but it I worked all day. LA, the traffic is a beast, as we all know. I got to drive all the way downtown.

But I'm like, but it's fucking LeBron James. I'm going to watch LeBron James. I'm going. Like, that is when I think about that point that you brought up for sure. But it's definitely a sense of, like, we all got spoiled, even all of us as basketball fans, that he's going to be here forever or he played 21 seasons and not had one – he's never had a bad season.

Never. Never had a bad season. Not even close to a bad season. I think what y'all do is respect it. It's not going to be appreciated until he walks away. When he walks away, they're going to look at the whole totality of everything that y'all accomplished, and that's when they're going to really give y'all the just do.

I mean, I think that happens with a lot of things, right? But why is that? Right. I don't know. Because it happens in a lot of everything. I don't think people respect it until it's gone. When it's gone. But that's when you get a chance to really look at it. We look at things in segments now. We're looking at it, but if you look at the whole

totality of everything that's been accomplished over the last 20 years... But then we say, does it continue? Because LeBron has two boys that are amazing in basketball. Now, does it continue? Now, do you continue on that same lineage? Never be another LeBron Jones.

Not even... It's... Nothing's impossible, but the things that make him who he is, it's really but the things that make him who he is it's really hard to get that cocktail of things to make that person

who he is well if the Knicks pick his son are you moving to New York? I love New York me and you will talk off I would love to be in New York I appreciate you guys for joining us.

Maverick Carter, Paul Rivera. Thanks for having us. Seventh season of The Shop. That's right. The Shop on YouTube. And definitely check out all the grooming products that they have out there

right now. I appreciate that so much. They don't have for the moms that bring their sons in the barbershop. But you know, or you can start helping them learn in grooming.

Because you know, a lot of young boys and men think grooming and face care is for special occasions. It's for every day. Every day. Wash, exfoliate that face. Moisturize that face. Every day. It's not just when you're going to the prom or the big basketball game.

It's daily. So that's what you got to do. Okay, and I can take the mirror. Yes, and be the face. It's the Breakfast Club. Good daily. So that's what you got to do. Okay, and I can take the mirror. Yes, and be the face. Nice. Be the face. It's the Breakfast Club. Good morning.

Wake that ass up. In the morning. The Breakfast Club. Had enough of this country? Ever dreamt about starting your own? I planted the flag. This is mine. I own this.

It's surprisingly easy. 55 gallons of water, 500 pounds of concrete. Or maybe not. No country willingly gives up their territory. Oh my God. What is that? Bullets. Listen to Escape from Zaka-stan.

That's Escape from Z-A-Q-a-stan on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Hey guys, I'm Kate Max. You might know me from my popular online series, The Running Interview Show, where I run with celebrities, athletes, entrepreneurs, and more. After those runs, the conversations keep going. That's what my podcast, Post Run High, is all about.

It's a chance to sit down with my guests and dive even deeper into their stories, their journeys, and the thoughts that arise once we've hit the pavement together. Listen to Post Run High on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. the lights stayed on. So join me, won't you? Let's dive into the eerie unknown together. Sleep tight, if you can. Listen to Haunting on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Daphne Caruana Galizia was a Maltese investigative journalist who on October 16th, 2017, was assassinated. Crooks everywhere unearths the plot to murder a one-woman WikiLeaks.

She exposed the culture of crime and corruption that were turning her beloved country into a mafia state. Listen to Crooks Everywhere on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Hey, what's up? This is Ramses Jha. or wherever you get your podcasts. We discuss everything from prejudice to politics to police violence, and we try to give you the tools to create positive change in your home, workplace, and social circle. We're going to learn how to become better allies to each other. So join us each Saturday for Civic Cipher on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.