The Breakfast Club - INTERVIEW: Michael Eric Dyson Compares Kamala To Drake, Talks Intellectual Rappers, Fighting For The Vote + More

Episode Date: September 16, 2024

The Breakfast Club Sits Down With Michael Eric Dyson, He Compares Kamala To Drake, Talks Intellectual Rappers,And Fighting For The Vote. Listen For More!See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

As a kid, I really do remember having these dreams and visions, but you just don't know what is going to come for you. Alicia shares her wisdom on growth, gratitude, and the power of love. I forgive myself. It's okay. Have grace with yourself. You're trying your best. And you're going to figure out the rhythm of this thing.

Alicia Keys, like you've never heard her before. Listen to On Purpose with Jay Shetty on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Hey guys, I'm Kate Max. You might know me from my popular online series, The Running Interview Show, where I run with celebrities, athletes, entrepreneurs, and more. After those runs, the conversations keep going.

That's what my podcast, Post High is all about. It's a chance to sit down with my guests and dive even deeper into their stories, their journeys, and the thoughts that arise once we've hit the pavement together. Listen to Post Run High on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Hey, y'all. Niminy here. I'm the host of a brand new history podcast for kids and families called Historical Records. Executive produced by Questlove, The Story Pirates, and John Glickman, Historical Records brings history to life through hip-hop. Flash, slam, another one gone. Bash, bam, another one gone. The crack of the bat and another one gone.

The tip of the cap, there's another one gone. Each episode is about a different inspiring figure from history. Like this one about Claudette Colvin, a 15-year-old girl in Alabama who refused to give up her seat on the city bus nine whole months before Rosa Parks did

the same thing. Check it. Get the kids in your life excited about history by tuning in to Historical Records because in order to make history, you have to make some noise. Listen to Historical Records because in order to make history you have to make some noise. Listen to Historical Records on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Hello, my undeadly darlings. It's

Teresa, your resident ghost host. And do I have a treat for you. Haunting is crawling out from the shadows, and it's going to be devilishly good. We've got chills, thrills, and stories that'll make you wish the lights stayed on. So

join me, won't you? Let's dive into the eerie unknown together. Sleep tight, if you can. Listen to Haunting on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Daphne Caruana Galizia was a Maltese investigative journalist who on October 16th, 2017, was assassinated. Crooks everywhere unearthed the plot to murder a one-woman WikiLeaks. She exposed the culture of crime and corruption that were turning her beloved country

into a mafia state. Listen to Crooks everywhere on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Morning, everybody. It's DJ Wake that ass up in the morning. The Breakfast Club. Morning, everybody. It's DJ Envy, Jess Hilarious, Charlamagne Tha Guy.

We are The Breakfast Club. Lorne LaRosa, of course, filling in for Jess. We got a special guest in the building. Yes, indeed. The brother, Michael Eric Dyson. Keep it light-skinned, brothers, alive. How you feeling, brother? Man, I'm feeling like we still riding with Drake,

so let's hang on as long as we can. Michael Eric Dyson got a new book out called Represent the Unfinished Fight for the Vote. Yes, sir. Yes, sir. Man, you know, look, thank the publishing gods. I was like, it's pretty good timing for what we're doing. My co-author, Mark Favreau, brilliant writer and gifted historian. And we wanted to talk about an issue that's central to what we're dealing with here in America today, and that's voting and why people should vote,

how they fought for it over time, and what it means to us today. And people think voter suppression might be new, like they've seen January 6th and all these other recent incidents that have tried to suppress the vote. But this book discusses other attempts to suppress the vote and get out a vote that go that go way back. Can you talk about that? Yes, sir. Great, great point.

Let's just talk about your state, South Carolina, in the 18. I think it was 76 election where they were deliberately trying to suppress the black vote, right? And these were the Democrats who were in power, who were trying to maintain that power. And back then, it was the Democrats who were the party of the racists and what we subsequently knew as Dixiecrats. So they invented this militia called the Red Shirts, and they were riding roughshod over black people, doing illegal stuff

to suppress the vote you know uh scaring them intimidating them and they said i want to read this to you because this is rather remarkable i don't want to bore people but this is what a copy of their plan was circulated all over state this is what it says every democrat must feel honor bound excuse me to control the vote of at least one Negro. Never threaten a man individually. If he deserves to be threatened, the necessities of the times require that he should die. A dead radical is very harmless. A threatened radical is often troublesome, sometimes dangerous, and always vindictive. So they were doing their thing.

And then the Democratic candidate for governor, Wade Ham Hampton had these people out in force and they had rifle clubs aimed at trying to suppress the black vote. So January 6th did not start it. It's part and parcel of what we have done as a government in America. And unbeknownst to a lot of people, January 6th ain't no outlier unless you say they outlying and not telling the truth about what's going on in American politics. I got to ask, you know, what do you think about what's going on today with the race? Of course, let's start from the beginning. We haven't seen you in a while. Right. Right. So, of course, Joe Biden, you know, we've been we've been up here. I would think for like the last year and a half, it says something's not right. He's not right. Right. They gave us a lot of flack for it. And they came back and said, you're absolutely positively right. I didn't just say he wasn't not right. I said he should step out of the race because I didn't think he could win in November.

Showed early signs of dementia, we thought. They pushed him out. Kamala Harris here. New energy. What is your thoughts on the whole thing? Let me part a little. Let me look at it. For the homies? For my homies, yo, I know it's improper. I was with that white man until the wheels fell off. I didn't care.

Just put a weekend at Bernie's. Push him on the damn wheelchair. Push him in the room because that was still acceptable over what we were facing. Now, there's no question that there were questions and concerns. You all were on the front line raising those questions. Other people were doing it more nefariously behind the scenes, ostensibly supporting, but all the time stabbing you with the knife. Joe Biden, I think, could have still won. It would have been much closer.

It had been a much tighter race. House and ever, as James Brown would say, there is no doubt that the shift in energy to Kamala Harris is remarkable. Let's be real. It's got to surprise Kamala Harris. You ever done something, you go like, damn, I didn't know I was that good. I didn't know I was going to come like that. Nobody could have predicted it. You know what they were predicting? White women ain't going to stand up for that black woman because white women were voting disproportionately in their numbers for Donald Trump the last time around.

They didn't support Hillary to the degree that they should have anyway. So what makes us think that they're going to support this black woman from California? Well, lo and behold, they is. And Republican women are out there doing their things. I hope it's a reverse Tom Bradley effect. You know the Tom Bradley effect, named after the governor of California, which meant white people would say, oh yes, we'll vote for the Negro. We're going to

support him. And then go in their booth and then boom, vote for the white guy. I think the reverse might happen this time around, that white women might tell their husbands and other interested parties, yes, yes, I'm a Trumper, and then go in there and support Kamala Harris. Why? Because she's reasonable. Why? Because she's intelligent.

Why? Because she's self-possessed. She's not off the hinge as Trump is. And she continues to escalate a war against the lunacy that is Donald Trump. So it is astonishing. It's amazing. I've known Vice President Harris for some 20-odd years. She's been a woman of integrity. She's been a woman of integrity. She's been a woman of serious regard

for the people. And she's been willing to take on some complicated stuff. I know a lot of people were trying to portray her as, you know, tough on crime and so on and so forth. You know what amazes me about that? Black people be the first people called the police anyway. Right. I mean, you'd be there like, Mama, I told you that sandwich wasn't right. I'm calling the cops on you. So obviously I'm being facetious, y'all. But the point is that. She's done some very progressive things. She's done some very progressive things.

Back on track program. That and but at the same time, we act like people don't commit crime. We act like the people who are calling the cops or at least asking for crime, not this kind of antiquated, antediluvian assault upon the rights of black people. We ain't talking about that. We talking about you in the hood and I'm trying to live and you selling, you promoting, you doing whatever that's undermining our communities. You know, when I was, I think, Raz Baraka, the mayor of Newark, said some of that defund the police stuff was from bourgeois Negroes who don't live in these hoods. Now, whether you take that or not, because I'm for progressive realization of police being held to account as Tyreek Hill.

I think he's with us now. The point is, at the same time, that there are real concerns and issues of crime that she tried to address in very practical and progressive fashion. And we need to acknowledge that. But I think the energy with her is remarkable, it's astonishing, and more power to her. I hope she continues to grow in strength and numbers as we go on. Me too. That's why I think your book is so timely, because one thing that I've been speaking about is why aren't more people calling out the Supreme Court

and calling them out for being an illegitimate institution? Because I don't even know if our democracy right now is healthy enough to have a free and fair election because of a lot of their recent rulings. And when you look at the fact that, you know, you'll have so many people across the country who might refuse to certify the results of the election. Right. Right. That's why I think your book is very timely. Thank you for that. And I appreciate that. That's a brilliant point, because, look, there's enough skepticism to go around anyway, enough cynicism even to be generated in the aftermath of what the Supreme Court has done. And for those who say voting don't matter, just take the Supreme Court, the issue you're talking about. Three justices were appointed by Donald Trump. Three.

Now, remember, when Obama was in office and Mitch McConnell, the great owl face one himself, said that, no, we're not going to have an election. You know, we're not going to you know, it's too close to election. We're not going to do this. It's 10 months before we're going to hold Merrick Garland and let the next president decide. Donald Trump wins. He gets in his people on what Gors, Gorsuch, Kavanaugh, and Amy Coney Barrett, right? They have shifted profoundly to the right, a court that was meant, as you said, to be a check and balance in democracy. You got the executive branch, the president and stuff, you got the legislative, people in Congress and the Senate, and you got the Supreme Court. And they're all supposed to be held in check. But when the Supreme Court is And they're all supposed to be held in check.

But when the Supreme Court is in cahoots with the president of the United States of America, who happens to be an anti-democracy figure, who is inspiring an insurrection in America, the very avatar, symbol of what's supposed to be democracy itself is himself purging voters, more importantly, democracy by his own actions. It's astonishing. So it is a question as to whether or not the Supreme Court should be reformed. Now, President Biden put forth these rules, but what, they got to regulate themselves? What did Malcolm X say?

The chickens are being now presided over by the foxes. So we can't, you know, Clarence Thomas, a white supremacist and black skin, a man who has been so unprincipled and his wife and the wife of another Supreme Court, Justice Alito, running your flag upside down, you are signifying to us that you are complicitous with the very forces that you should be opposing. So it is a problem. But I say the answer then is not less voting, but more. Because if we change the Constitution, not of the United States of America, but of the court, of the voter, if we get a person in like Kamala Harris and Tim Walz, and they are able to restore some sense of integrity and appreciation and confidence in our government, that goes a long way toward trying to remedy some of these more systemic and structural problems. How do you think we should handle two things, AI and all this fake news, right? Because people really believe what they're seeing online.

And although you could hear it from the horse's mouth, people really believe it. So how do you think these politicians should handle a lot of the AI and a lot of the fake news that's going on across the social media? Even the news is reporting some of this fake news. Of course. Look, AI is one of my favorite players of all time. So I support him, whatever he does.

Okay. Now, the other AI, right, because Allen Iverson, I saw him for three years when I was a professor at University of Pennsylvania. One of the coldest ever to do it and one of the bravest. I wish we had an AI in that in terms of artificial intelligence because it is

tricky. We don't know what's real. The deep fakes. You know, people out here saying one thing and meaning another or lying about it. Even before AI, think about it. The robocalls that were being put out here, you know, people out here saying one thing and meaning another or lying about it. Even before AI, think about it, the robocalls that were being put out here, you know, voting is on Wednesday. Now, you know we don't vote on Wednesday. Next Saturday you vote. Early to the, you know, souls to the polls and churches is problematic and so on and so forth.

So you've got the distillation and the dispersal of all kinds of fake news and fake information, which is why it behooves us to listen to The Breakfast Club, why it behooves us to read, you know, The New York Times, The Guardian, The Wall Street Journal, whatever your paper of choice is, and to make sure you can fact check. Because if you've got, again, and I hate to just beat this dead horse, but you've got a president who is the font of fake news, of defactualization,

of factfulness gone awry. This dude don't know a fact if it hit him in the head. He lies and then he lies again. And people lie and lie again and create that as the basis of facts. Then you've got senators like Hawley and congressmen like Jordan out here reinforcing the negativity that's generated by the falseness of it. So you've got misinformation, which is I didn't mean to get it wrong, but I messed up. Disinformation said I meant to get it wrong and I'm trying to lie to you so I can convince you to do something that is against your best interest. So disinformation and misinformation are bad enough. So we got to continue to do the old fashioned way. Read it for yourself. Find it in a newspaper.

Check it against facts of history. Begin to talk to people that you trust. Talk to people whose job it is to think about these things. And no disrespect to celebrities, but man, oh, man, in our community especially, we're vulnerable. You know, you get a celebrity, gets mad, gets upset, upset talks about things and i know i love my man tyreece he was just off base when what he was saying i love his energy i love the sincerity with which he said it i know his intent was right but sometimes you could just be spreading misinformation that ain't helpful to us as a people so read and this

is why i know this sounds self-serving as a black intellectual, but I'm 65 years old. I've been out here on this battlefield for 40 years. And I'm telling you, I'm trying to make the life of the mind sexy to young people. I want them to see you ain't just gotta be a rapper, which is important.

You ain't just gotta be an entertainer, which is great. You ain't gotta be a singer. You ain't got to be an athlete. You could be an intellectual, a thinker, a person who puts on every day a thinking cap and tries to reflect upon the world. There's something virtuous about that. And I'm unapologetic about that because I think we need more of that now in an era when disinformation, AI, the creation of deep fakes and the perpetuation of legacies of inequity through means to dominate the masses has to be examined. So we've got to go back to old school. Think about Noam Chomsky and manufacturing consent.

And think about these great books, Marshall McLuhan, in terms of talking about the media and the medium is the message. That's the kind of stuff we've got to think critically about as we move forward. You know, it's interesting about what you said, Brother Dyson. Most of your favorite entertainers are rappers that people like you like them because they're intellectual right whether you deem them an academic intellectual or not you like you like pock you like killer mike you like jay-z you like naz you scarface these brothers are intellectual lauren hill i mean you know you that's a great point and that's why i dig them i've written books about half of them. Why? Because they're thoughtful. Pac? I mean, Pac was amazing on that microphone, but boy, he's up here talking about American government. born in jail because his mother was one of the Panther 21 that were here in New York and were on trial. So from the very beginning, he was trained about being skeptical and suspicious of the dominant society.

When you think about a killer Mike, a Lupe fiasco, you know, people that I've talked to constantly. When you think about a Jay, when you think about a Nas, these are highly intellectual reflections and reflectors on society. And we appeal to them precisely because they teach us to think for ourselves and to be open-minded. Great point. How do you feel about, do you see Plies' comments that he made about Kamala and people questioning her? Who? Plies.

Oh, right. And his support, you mean his support for her? Yeah, support. But it caused a big conversation about how do you question your candidate? Should you question your candidates? Should you question your candidates? Is she being questioned unfairly? And I know your book is all about, like, desires and voting equaling that. So how did you feel about what he said?

Great point. Well, I love Plies. You know, Plies is out there just raising the serious questions that need to be raised. Another intellectually curious and insightful young man. And look, you've got to question all these candidates. I love and support Kamala Harris. I've known her for over 20 years. I think she is the best woman for the job.

May the best woman win. That's what I think. However, you've got to hold everybody to account. She knows that. If she's worth her salt, she's got to say, hold me to account. Y'all know this old story that A. Philip Randolph and Mary McLeod Bethune are visiting with Franklin Delano Roosevelt in the White House, right?

And they were part of his kitchen and cabinet. This is like back in the 40s. And they're telling him, you've got to do this. You've got to create the possibility for black people to vote. You've got to, we have to do everything we can to make sure that the military is, you know, desegregated. He says, everything you were doing and saying, I agree with,

now go out in the streets and make me do it. Right? Harry Belafonte used to love telling that story. So the thing is, you've got to make people, hold them to account. Martin Luther King Jr., on the outside, putting pressure on LBJ, allows LBJ to collar some of those people in the Senate and say, you're going to vote the right way, and we're going to do what we got to do to pass what? The Voting Rights Act, but before that, the Civil Rights Bill, Civil Rights Act. And then look at the Holy Trinity, 64, the Civil Rights

Act, 65, the Voting Rights Act, and then 68, in homage to Dr. King after his death, the Fair Housing Act. That's the Holy Trinity. That's the triumphant trilogy of transformation for black folk in this country politically and legislatively. So you got to hold these people to account. If it wasn't for the pressure of King, then LBJ wouldn't have done what he did, couldn't have done what he did. If it wasn't for Frederick Douglass, then Lincoln might not have acted the way he did. And we ain't talking about perfect people. You know, when people always cite the history of some of these people, Joe Biden or Lincoln, I don't give a dang what Lincoln's motivation was. He signed the Emancipation Proclamation. And when he signed that Emancipation Proclamation, that opened up possibility. So we have to stop demanding perfection

even as we hold people to account. And I think it is important to hold people to account. But what's interesting to me is that when I hear all that about holding to account, I ain't seeing nobody who's promoting Donald Trump saying, let me do it skeptically. Let me be self-critical about Mr. Trump. Yes, I think that in their quote, and going back 50 years to find something about Joe Biden, this dude was promoting the death of the Central Park Five, now known as the Exonerated Five, not long ago, and ain't apologized yet or backtracked upon demanding the death penalty for them. Here's a guy who would his father deny people access to housing when he owned these cribs and these apartments in New York. So here's a guy who has been consistent.

Now, I think rappers get it twisted because he was an icon of hip hop before. Why? Because he had the women he had. They thought they thought he had the money. You can see he was lying. They thought he had the buildings and the money and he was a billionaire and all that. So that was attractive to a kind of glitzy hip hop era where it was all about the pursuit of capital. But Donald Trump was faking the funk even then. His daddy gave him $400 million to begin with. If your father gave you $400 million to begin with as a little loan to hook you up and you still struggling the way you're doing, you are a failure. So even at that level, there are problematic issues.

I hear young rappers say, but he gave us a check. No. They're talking about during COVID, the $1,200 or whatever they got, $2,000. Check the record. That's the legislative branch. That is Congress. Stuff that he opposed and then he took credit for distributing. Joe Biden done hooked up a lot of people in terms of student loans.

I know three or four people have been forgiven $100,000 or more. So the point is check the record, stop the disinformation, stop the misinformation, stop the deep fakes, and ask serious questions. You must always hold people to account. Hold me to account, hold y'all to account, but do it in a, I think, respectful fashion. The thing that I have a problem with, I'm on Twitter or whatever, X,

and people calling me out my name. You know, I'm trying to check. Is it people I know undercover? Maybe it's my mother. Okay, no, it's not her. So the thing is, is that, you know, you can hold me to account. You can challenge me, but I'm 27 books in the game, mofo. I've done my work.

It doesn't mean that you have to agree with what I say, but be respectful for what I do and acknowledge that. And so on Twitter, you know, we have these Twitter battles and we got these digital warriors who are talking trash and being nasty and calling you names. Do we have to do that? Can we respect the integrity of each other and say we're in a pitched battle?

We're trying to figure out the best way to go and let's treat each other with fundamental love and respect. Let's talk about the dim-witted doppelganger. Love that phrase. Wow. Yes, he is a dim-witted doppelganger. He is an autocrat, an oligarch. We're talking about Donald Trump.

A foolish fascist, for that matter. I thought you were talking about J.D. Vance, but go ahead. You know, I mean, what's up with J.D.? First of all, you're giving Ivy League a bad name, bro. You went to Yale. You've got more reason to have high intelligence than that. He is himself a dim-witted doppelganger of Donald Trump

because you know better. The erosion of J.D. Vance over the last three or four years, you know, not only you being supported by Peter Till and, you know, your whole senatorial career is owed to one guy in Silicon Valley who believes in you and your right-wing agenda and your deeply and profoundly nativist, xenophobic belief and passion, married as you are to an Indian woman in America. And initially you were saying, oh, yeah, she's not white, but why are you apologizing for your wife, bro? Because the side you're on is so racist that you have to then make an exception for the inclusion of your wife. That ought to tell you something. J.D. Vance is a despicable reflection of kowtowing and capitulating to a foolish fascist like Donald Trump,

and his ability to be an echo chamber as opposed to a critical voice is dispiriting, but we ought to call him for what he is, and he is joined with the enemy of the state. He is joined with an enemy of democracy, and we ought to call him for what he is. And he is joined with the enemy of the state. He is joined with an enemy of democracy, and we ought to call him out for it. You know, your book also points out how the founding fathers didn't want everybody to vote. Could you talk about who couldn't vote at the beginning of the nation? Yeah, I'm glad you said that, because people think, well, they came here, they're trying to flee Great Britain, you know, taxation without representation.

No, sounds like D.C., right? But the point is, the founding fathers were like, we got to be real careful with that because if you say everybody can vote, then them slaves can vote. Can't have that. So we got to figure out a way to keep them out. Oh, we don't want the women running stuff. Got to figure out a way to keep them out.

Oh, I get it. We'll say you have to be property owning. Now, that excludes a whole bunch of white people, too, white men. But we can keep them out. Oh, I get it. We'll say you have to be property owning. Now that excludes a whole bunch of white people too, white men, but we can keep it elite. We can keep it a nice little club that we control because we don't want the unwashed masses to be able to determine and dictate what goes on in America. So initially, what did they do? They punted it. The federal government said, let's give it to the states, right? Whoever is, you know, in New York. As a kid, I really do remember having these dreams and visions, but you just don't know what is going to come for you.

Alicia Keys opens up about conquering doubt, learning to trust herself, and leaning into her dreams. I think a lot of times we are built to doubt the possibilities for ourselves. For self-preservation and protection, it was literally that step by step. And so I discovered that that is how we get where we're going. This increment of small, determined moments.

Alicia shares her wisdom on growth, gratitude, and the power of love. I forgive myself. It's okay. Like, grace. Have grace with yourself. You're trying your best. And you're gonna figure out the rhythm of this thing.

Alicia Keys, like you've never heard her before. Listen to On Purpose with Jay Shetty on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. What's up, y'all? This is Questlove, and I'm here to tell you about a new podcast I've been working on with the Story Pirates and John Glickman called Historical Records. It's a family-friendly

podcast. Yeah, you heard that right. A podcast for all ages. One you can listen to and enjoy with your kids starting on September 27th. I'm going to toss it over to the host of Historical Records, Nimany, to tell you all about it. Make sure you check it out. Hey, y'all. Nimany here. I'm the host of a brand new history podcast for kids and families called Historical Records. Historical Records brings history to life through hip-hop. Each episode is about a different inspiring figure from history. Like this one about Claudette Colvin, a 15-year-old girl in Alabama who refused to give up her seat on the city bus

nine whole months before Rosa Parks did the same thing. Check it. Get the kids in your life excited about history by tuning in to Historical Records because in order to make history, you have to make some noise. Listen to Historical Records on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Hey there, my little creeps. It's your favorite ghost host, Teresa. And guess what?

Haunting is back, dropping just in time for spooky season. Now I know you've probably been wandering the mortal plane, wondering when I'd be back to fill your ears with deliciously unsettling stories. Well, wonder no more, because we've got a ghoulishly good lineup ready for you. Let's just say things get a bit extra. We're talking spirits, demons, and the kind of supernatural chaos that'll make your spooky season complete. You know how much I love this time of year. It's the one time I'm actually on trend. So grab your pumpkin spice, dust off that Ouija board, just don't call me unless it's urgent, and tune in for new episodes every week.

Remember, the veils are thin, the stories are spooky, and your favorite ghost host is back and badder than ever. Listen to Haunting on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Hey guys, I'm Kate Max. You might know me from my popular online series, The Running Interview Show, where I run with celebrities, athletes, entrepreneurs, and more. After those runs, the conversations keep going. That's what my podcast, Post Run High, is all about. It's a chance to sit down with my guests and dive even deeper into their stories, their journeys, and the thoughts that arise once we've hit the pavement together.

You know that rush of endorphins you feel after a great workout? Well, that's when the real magic happens. So if you love hearing real, inspiring stories from the people you know, follow, and admire, join me every week for Post Run High. It's where we take the conversation beyond the run and get into the heart of it all. It's lighthearted, pretty crazy, and very fun. Listen to Post Run High on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Hey, I'm Jack Peace Thomas, the host of a brand new Black Effect original series, Black Lit, the podcast for diving deep into the

rich world of Black literature. I'm Jack Peace Thomas, and I'm inviting you to join me and a vibrant community of literary enthusiasts dedicated to protecting and celebrating our stories. Black Lit is for the page turners, for those who listen to audiobooks while commuting or running errands. For those who find themselves seeking solace, wisdom, and refuge between the chapters. From thought-provoking novels to powerful poetry, we'll explore the stories that shape our culture. Together, we'll dissect classics and contemporary works while uncovering the stories of the brilliant writers behind them. Blacklit is here to amplify the voices of Black writers and to bring their words to life. Listen to Blacklit on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Jersey, they can decide what they're doing. Who's in, you know, Massachusetts?

They can decide what they're doing. Who's in South Carolina? They can decide what they're doing. So they punted it to the states. And then you've heard of this thing called states' rights, right? That was a big thing during the civil rights movement at its height because they were saying it's the states' rights. Forget the federal government telling us what we can and cannot do, imposing constraints upon us. You know, when George Wallace, the governor of Alabama, stood in the door and kept those Negroes from entering the University of Alabama.

Forget the federal government. It's the state, and Alabama says they cannot come in. So that was set up by the federal government because they said, the founding fathers, we don't want us dictating and determining what goes on in these states. For instance, in New Jersey, women could vote initially, right? That was the only state that allowed women to vote. They were first referring to they, which is not, you know, neutral. Then they said he or she, which is pretty progressive when you think about women voting.

But then decades later, they even rejected the possibility of women voting in Jersey. In some states, black people could vote. Then they couldn't vote. hodgepodge and a mishmash of, you know, constitutional declarations independently of these states that allowed them to have wildly varying degrees of support. But overall and all, the founding fathers weren't the kind of, you know, rich, richly supportive Democrats, small d, that were able to say, we want everybody to be able to vote and that kind of misunderstanding it's just like when when i hear conservatives say well we're a christian nation no we ain't bro south africa is one of the the rare ones that claims to be explicitly a christian nation you see how that turned out so so when they say this is a christian nation thomas jefferson

ain't believing in the bible the same way you do, Ralph Reed or Jerry Falwell. It's a different Bible. The first thing Thomas Jefferson did when he got the Bible, he cut all the miracles out because he wanted to be empirical. He left Smokey Robinson, though. Okay, anyway. So, da-da, da-da, da-da. Come on, man.

Come on with it. So, he cut the miracles out. He wanted the only thing that could be empirically verifiable. So, boom, that's gone. Y'all ain't believing in that. They were what they call mechanistic deists. That means God wound the world up, put it in order, and let it go on its own. So when Albert Einstein, years later, when he's debating Werner Heisenberg

about theories of physics, Einstein believed that there's phenomena that you could specifically note where it is. Heisenberg said, no, it's an uncertainty principle. We don't quite know where it is. We're trying to figure it out. It's approximately here. Einstein said, God does not play dice with the universe. So what he meant

by God was, you know Einstein was an atheist, he meant the structure of the universe, natural law. So I'm saying all that to say when y'all be saying this is a Christian nation and it's founded upon these principles, stop lying, do your homework. It was far more complicated and nuanced than we believed, and they believed in a different kind of God than we believe in now. Same with democracy.

They were not for everybody participating, but the genius of those documents, the Declaration of Independence, the Constitution, the Bill of Rights, is that we could take what they said and use it for our advantage because we could expand democracy to the parameters that they claim to want to do but never did. That's the beauty of our country. Speaking of everybody not participating, I know you were like a big proponent of Beyonce and you saw what just recently happened

what happened with her in the CMAs and you know we participate in that arena but we never get our just due ever there so her dad has come out and said of course race played a factor like that's the obvious conversation around it because Cowboy Carter she had a huge year she made history

so what's your take on Beyonce and the CMAs? Yeah, I mean, you know, come on, man. I mean, just in terms of the merits alone, forget issues of race, gender, class, just on the issue of the merits alone, the album itself as a document

of country music was beautiful, brilliant, and powerful. And she stretched the parameters of it. She got Dolly Parton on there giving her a cosign. I mean, she did all the stuff you're supposed to do. She's wearing the cowboy boots. She's got the cowboy hat. You know, she's hanging out. Texas, hold them.

I mean, she's making the music. And she grew up in Houston, Texas, y'all. What y'all think? Of course she loves country music. I grew up in Detroit. My daddy was from Georgia. Mama from Alabama. We listened to country music. I grew up in Detroit. My daddy was from Georgia. Mama from Alabama. We listened to country music.

Hey, good looking. What you got cooking? How's about cooking something up with me? Come on, man. I mean, we would listen to that country music. Ray Charles putting it down. We're watching George Hamilton play

the great, great country singer who Charles putting it down. We're watching George Hamilton play, you know, the great, great country singer and who died in his early, mid-20s. So the point is that we listen to country. We are country. We help produce country. Country is like the white blues, and blues is like the black country.

So there were similar traits, musical styles, signatures, cadences, and the like. So Beyonce grew up with that genuinely. And now to be denied that, what else are you going to say? But it's a racial segregation of a marketplace that they are seeking to undermine, that they are seeking to open up, that they are seeking the challenge.

And look, I live in Nashville, Tennessee. I love country music. I'm down with it. I go to the CMAs. My very dear friend, Mia McNeil, who I had the chance to perform at a wedding ceremony, a brilliant advocate for DEI in country music is there. So they're making strides,

but this right here is a black mark, pun intended, on country music, and they ought to be ashamed of themselves for denying the very means by which they could become even more popular. Think about it. Michael Jackson had to argue for his music to be played on MTV. Please, white establishment, allow me to save you. Allow me to come in and make videos that will revive your genre. And so at the same time here, what we got to acknowledge is that Beyonce brought a different audience to what's going on.

Think about it. When Taylor Swift is at the NFL, they're embracing it. Let's show Taylor every 2.7 seconds with her boyfriend and clapping and so on and so forth. So now Beyonce comes in, it's a different story. It's bald racism. It's bigotry.

And Howard Thurman said a bigot is a person who makes an idol of his commitments. They've committed themselves to a narrow range of what is a popular and appropriate. And I think it's shameful and they ought to be called on it for the racist, that racism that that represents. And, you know uh i want to see bought a vanderbilt gotta salute uh alice randall she wrote the book my black country you know uh that that talks my home girl from detroit man talks about country music's past present and future yes black people's uh role in country music oh yes i mean she is a brilliant she is

the most brilliant exponent of black folk in country music and that book is a brilliant she is the most brilliant exponent of black folk and country music and that book is a remarkably terrifically eloquent exposition of what we've been through what we've gone through she's a songwriter as well and a tremendous tremendous writer so i would encourage all of y'all to read that book i got a couple more questions for you because i know we got somebody else coming in but um you wrote a great article uh speaking the Vice President Kamala Harris and racial politics and you compared Kamala to Drake at certain levels. What were you trying to say in that piece? Because you know,

we want people to vote for the Vice President. I don't know if comparing her to Drake right now is the best way. I watched the sermon too that you did on it. I appreciate that. Thank you. Go ahead. Alright, well see here's my point. Break it down my light skin brother. You know what?

We have been in exile, light-skinned black people, since Wesley Snipes stabbed Christopher Williams in New Jack City. It's been rough on us. I'm not going to lie. One of my favorite moments is now. I can't lie about that. Yeah, pretty nicked. Okay.

It's been rough. We've been hurting ever since. We were depending upon Steph Curry and Drake to bring us back, and it's been a setback in one way. But here's the point, to be serious. The song is one thing. Say what you will about They Not Like Us. But as an argument, They Not Like Us, 1582. 12.5 black people from Africa are dispersed across the North Atlantic and the North Atlantic slave trade begins. And most people did not come to what we now know as the United States of America. They went to Brazil. They went to Mayco. They went to the Caribbean and less than 400,000 came here. Number one. Why is that important? Because when we're talking about who's black and who than 400,000 came here. Number one. Why is that important?

Because when we're talking about who's black and who's not, because, you know, people debated me. We ain't talking. You so stupid. Okay, you could say that, but I got my boner for days. You're so stupid. It's not about race and Drake. It's about culture.

He's a culture vulture. Are you serious right now? What other black entertainer do you know has ever been called a culture vulture for experimenting in his own or her own music? That's number one. Number two, Drake grew up in Toronto. Adopting different musical persona was indigenous to that particular region. Number two. Number three, a lot of black folk went to Canada when they were trying to escape the murderous privileges of whiteness in America where slavocracy was established.

So so when you say Drake is illegitimate or not genuine because he doesn't like black American culture or doesn't embrace it, blackness is bigger than what happens in the United States of America. Kamala Harris, what did they say? She's got a fake accent. Sound familiar? Drink with those fake accents. This is what artists do. What did Jay-Z say? We're all actors. De Niro in training.

What did Fat Joe say? 97% of the stuff is made up. That's what artists do. We don't hold Al Pacino. Are you really a member of the mob? We don't do that to maybe Frank Sinatra. We gave him an exception. But there were many others who do this, right?

We don't say you have to live the life you sing about in your song, which is a great gospel song, beautiful when Mahalia Jackson is singing it, not so much when you're trying to act like what's on that film is you or what's in that booth is you. We make stuff up. That's what art does. That's what fiction writers do. That's what Toni Morrison does.

Now, Toni Morrison's Beloved is based upon a real story, Margaret Garner, right, who killed her own children. And before I'll be a slave, I'll be buried in my grave and go home to my God and be free or kill my own kids. But she fictionalized the expression of that idea. Why is it that Drake becomes the avatar and symbol of what is not genuine in blackness when it's your narrow conception of blackness that prohibits him from flourishing in many ways? So I got big arguments with that. Kamala Harris, they said the same thing about Drake is her. You got a fake accent. You went to Canada to go to school. J.D. Vance has been on her about that. And then that you are not genuinely black in the way that other black people are. Blackness by definition is subversive. It undermines narrow categories. I spent most of my career arguing against people who are trying

to impose narrow constraints upon blackness. We are as big as our imaginations allow us to be. And I think this is one of the sorry moments within hip hop and black culture where Drake becomes automatically the representative of what is inauthentic. And Kamala Harris in the same way. You ain't really black. She's not a real black woman. Even Donald Trump is trying to weigh in by saying she just turned black, like she had malaria or some other disease and leprosy,

and that she became black. This is the kind of ignorance that we've got to confront. I would love to hear your take. I know this has nothing to do with politics, but I love your thought process. The fact that Lil Wayne is not performing Super Bowl in New Orleans. Go. Yeah, that's, look, I love Lil Wayne.

I'd rather be underground pushing flowers than in the pen sharing showers. I hear you, bro. Look, I mean, those decisions are complicated and nuanced, right? First of all, we just now got used to the fact that hip-hop could even be part of the conversation. Thank you, Jay-Z. Thank you, Jay-Z. Thank you, Rock Nation. I mean, thank you, Rock Nation.

I mean, Jay-Z. Now, this ain't got nothing to do with that, but I was about to preach that sermon you were talking about a couple, three weeks ago. I get a text, bring back the glasses. So I said, what's this text to be? And he says, I guess people feel the same way about my hair ha ha ha so you know that was jay i'm wearing him jay what's up bro i'm here right now other people have been saying it too because i had cataract surgery i didn't need glass anymore but you know i was mike episode i didn't even know that was you it's the look it's a part of the look it's

the brand see that's what i'm saying so jay and then now you okay i'm gonna keep wearing the glasses there you go so the point is, Jay knows what he's talking about. He understands what the deal is. So, because of him, we even have an argument about whether it could be Weezy or whether it be Kendrick and so on. I mean, look, whoever the choice is can't be bad. Right. Hip-hop is being represented.

Now, should Lil Wayne be acknowledged as a denizen of New Orleans, as one of the greatest artists we've ever produced? Absolutely. And who knows? Maybe he'll bring Lil Wayne on. But I think, again, our privilege creates a certain kind of opportunity here to argue about stuff that we didn't even have five years ago. Before Jay got involved.

That's an incredible point. Ain't nobody even had no conversation about hip-hop in its presence. So I give grace and love to Jay-Z and continue to support that movement because it's all good for all of us. Even though I'm a Drake fan and I love Kendrick as well, I understand what that's about. But my defense of Drake doesn't mean I'm ignorant to the broader dimensions of hip-hop culture and what Jay-Z is doing.

And it's nothing short of remarkable when you think about it. Final question. Give people a case as to why they should go out and vote for this election, because everybody always says, oh, this is the most consequential election of our lifetime. You know, you know, this election, this candidate is a threat to democracy, which I believe Trump is. Yes. But but why should people go out there and vote in this election? Why is this the most important election of our lifetime? It is. And thank you for saying that. That's a great, great point.

It is because you know how they often say democracy is on the ballot. But it is right because the choice is pretty glaring. You've got a person who has undermined the very nature of what democracy is about. If democracy, as we define in this book, is people power and the ability of people to control and govern the institutions that regulate their lives, to be able to dictate the terms of their existence by full participation in American democracy, then we have to conclude this man is a danger and a threat to American democracy. Now, he tried to flip that by saying,

this is why they attempted to assassinate me, because they have demonized me and painted me as a bette noire, as a horrible person for American democracy. But you are, sir. So I think it's right for us to acknowledge that in this election, we are choosing between that on the one hand and a woman who is the representative of all that is great and good about America as a black woman and black woman already running stuff. They might as well run the country. I mean, at the end of the day,

without black women, where would we be? Right. I wouldn't be here. Most of us wouldn't be here without a black woman and a black woman, not only in terms of physically, but in terms of the mental approach. I, when I go to these, uh, places where they're supporting black men and how black men have been dissed, it's black women leading the way. It's black women saying, give our men a chance, give our boys a chance. Black women are standing up for us in ways we don't stand up for them. 20 years ago, 21 years ago, I wrote a book called Why I Love Black Women. It wasn't no thing. It wasn't no black girl magic.

It wasn't no black boy joy. I did it because I felt that it was necessary to celebrate black women because they were being dissed and dismissed. And look, you can choose who you want as a life partner. If you and this microphone get along, I get it. Hey, I like you. I like you too. Why do you like me? Because you amplify me.

You're long and black and you're assertive. And I like that. Your brain is big and I appreciate that. So my point is, y'all get down with the microphone and have micrets. I mean, go do your thing. My point is you love who loves you. And I ain't mad at that. But at the end of the day, there is no reason to demonize and stigmatize black women for the very

strength that they possess that is necessary to to push the race forward. We get mad when it's expressed at home. And I think and I know this is controversial. I think some of the black men who were for Trump. Look, I know there are reasons for that, and I don't diss them, but some of this is straight-up misogyny. Some of it is straight-up patriarchy. And what's ironic to me is that some black men who don't want a woman being a pastor of their church, and trust me, I preach in these churches, might now end up having a woman as president of the United States of America.

Ain't that God? In a pantsuit. In a pantsuit. Don't that God. In a pantsuit. In a pantsuit. In high heels. And look, Barack Obama was Jackie Robinson. Jackie Robinson's great quality. He was a great ball player. He had tremendous skill.

But his greatest skill was his ability to endure white supremacy and give it a licking while he kept doing what he was doing without being angry or resentful. You come to the point I wanted you to get to. Go ahead. Mm-hmm. I think Kamala Harris is Willie Mays. Willie Mays came along a few years after Jackie Robinson, equally talented, really, let's be real, far more talented, and had a joy, what they call a joie de vivre. He had a joyfulness about it and a confidence. But that confidence that Willie Mays could express,

even though he was subject to the arbitrary women caprice of white supremacy and segregation, but he was freer because of the sacrifice of Jackie Robinson. So the joy of Kamala Harris grows from the hope of Barack Obama. Because Barack Obama had hope, now Kamala Harris can have joy. And she is Willie Mays in high heels, and she's stepping, and I continue to support and love that woman because she represents the best of who we are. Michael Eric Dice, ladies and gentlemen.

That's right. Represent the unfinished fight for the vote is available everywhere you buy books right now. That's right. We appreciate you for joining us this morning. Love y'all. Keep doing the great work. That's right. It's The Breakfast joining us this morning. Love y'all. Keep doing the great work. That's right.

It's The Breakfast Club. It's Michael Eric Dice. Wake that ass up early in the morning. The Breakfast Club. As a kid, I really do remember having these dreams and visions,

but you just don't know what is going to come for you. Alicia shares her wisdom on growth, gratitude, and the power of love. I forgive myself. It's okay. Have grace with yourself. You're trying your best, and you're going to figure out the rhythm of this thing. Alicia Keys, like you've never heard her before. Listen to On Purpose with Jay Shetty on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Hey guys, I'm Kate Max. You might know me from my popular online series, The Running Interview Show,

where I run with celebrities, athletes, entrepreneurs, and more. After those runs, the conversations keep going. That's what my podcast, Post High is all about. It's a chance to sit down with my guests and dive even deeper into their stories, their journeys, and the thoughts that arise once we've hit the pavement together. Listen to Post Run High on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Hey y'all. Niminy here. I'm the host of a brand new history podcast for kids and families called Historical Records. Executive produced by Questlove,

The Story Pirates, and John Glickman, Historical Records brings history to life through hip-hop. Flash, slam, another one gone. Bash, bam, another one gone. The crack of the bat and another one gone. The tip of the cap, there's another one gone. Bash, bam, another one gone. The crack of the bat and another one gone. The tip of the cap, there's another one gone.

Each episode is about a different inspiring figure from history. Like this one about Claudette Colvin, a 15-year-old girl in Alabama who refused to give up her seat on the city bus nine whole months before Rosa Parks did the same thing. Check it. And it began with me. Did you know, did you know? I wouldn't give up my seat. months before Rosa Parks did the same thing. Check it. Get the kids in your life excited about history by tuning in to Historical Records. Because in order to make history, you have to make some noise. Listen to Historical records on the iHeartRadio app,

Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Hello, my undeadly darlings. It's Teresa, your resident ghost host. And do I have a treat for you. Haunting is crawling out from the shadows, and it's going to be devilishly good. We've got chills, thrills, and stories that'll make you wish the lights stayed on. So join me, won't you? Let's dive into the eerie unknown together. Sleep tight, if you can. Listen to

Haunting on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Daphne Caruana Galizia was a Maltese investigative journalist who on October 16th, 2017, was assassinated. Crooks Everywhere unearths the plot to murder a one-woman WikiLeaks. She exposed the culture of crime and corruption that were turning her beloved country into a mafia state.