The Breakfast Club - INTERVIEW: Michael Jai White Talks New Film ‘Special Op: Rent-A-Cop’, Controlling Your Ego, Tyler Perry, Winning The Bruce Lee Award

Episode Date: May 6, 2026

Today on The Breakfast Club, Michael Jai White Talks New Film ‘Special Op: Rent-A-Cop’, Controlling Your Ego, Tyler Perry, Winning The Bruce Lee Award. Listen For More!YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@BreakfastClubPower1051FMSee omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

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From 1979, that was a big moment for me. 84 is big to me. I'm Sam J. And I'm Alex English. Each episode, we pick a year, unpack what went down, and try to make sense of how we survived it. With our friends, fellow comedians, and favorite authors. Like Mark Lamont Hill on the 80s. 84 was a wild.

I mean, it was a wild year. I don't think there's a more important year for black people. Listen to look back at it on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Hey, what's good, y'all? You're listening to Learn the Hard Way with your favorite therapist and host, Kear Games. This space is about black men's experiences, having honest conversations that it's really not safe to have anywhere, but you're having them with a licensed professional who knows what he's doing. How many men carry a suit or armor? It signals to the world that you not to be played with.

And just because you have the capability that does not mean that you need to. Listen to learn the hard way on the AHA Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast. Hold on. Every day I wake up. You're all finished or y'all's done? Morning, everybody. It's DJ NV. Jess Salarious. Shalame Nagar. We are the Breakfast Club. Lawn LaRose is here as well. We got a special guest in the building.

His new movie's special op, Renner Cop, is out right now. Michael J. White. Is it J? or J? John? You got it, right? Oh, okay. All right. Good morning. How are you feeling, brother? I feel real good. I feel real good being back here. I got problems now because I'm kind of loving being back.

Really? Yes, man. I'm from here originally. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And so walking these streets, man, and it's a beautiful weather, man. It's got me like really. Well, that's today. Because tomorrow's going to be back cold. Well, yesterday, too. It was all good, man.

I'm enjoying myself. What do you miss about it? Oh, so much, man. The energy I'm hooking up with my. my peoples from here that I hadn't seen in a long time. In fact that, you know, I traipsy streets trying to come up, doing theater and all that kind of stuff. And I almost feel like I sold out.

You know what I mean? When I'm in L.A. and now I'm doing, you know, doing the other type of thing. But, man, I got my friends doing Broadway and all that kind of stuff. And I started with theater out here, right? So it made me kind of miss it. So, you know, I'm feeling that way. Well, if you know, I like to go back, Smith.

for people that don't know. How did you get into theater, into acting? What push you towards that? Well, I was always kind of doing this as a kid, right? I was doing, like, plays, and I was doing, like, my own films. Like, when I was 10 years old, I was cutting together movies and stuff, but it wasn't taking this serious. Like, I go to college, come out, I'm a school teacher,

but I'm still dealing with, like, I'm coming out here, auditioning to do different things when I'm off, you know, from teaching school. And so it got in my system. Like, I really enjoyed this. And so I landed a really big, like theatrical. I was in, To Kill a Mockingbird, the first adaptation to theater, you know, off Broadway. And I was with, like, Tony Award winners, all that kind of stuff. And so that was my trajectory.

I was an actor, right? And I was doing theater and I was doing all that kind of stuff and landing stuff before going out to L.A. but, you know, in these streets and, you know, it's the energy and the fact that I was in it for the art of it, right? And so it's kind of like reliving that. Right, so, but yeah, I started out here.

And, you know, then, you know, with the whole L.A. thing and, you know, changing up, doing all the kind of popcorn movies and stuff like that. I always wanted to come back to roots and do more theater and do those kinds of things. kind of things, but you know, it's, it's, I kind of feel a nostalgic. And when did the martial... Yeah, I was going to say, did theater come before martial arts?

Yeah, it's going to get, when the martial arts come in. Well, you see, it's funny how people equate the two. I've been doing martial arts my whole life. It's kind of like, I don't know, like if you think about Gregory Hines was tap dancing, but he don't tap dancing every movie. But when I first came to LA, I didn't want to do anything with martial arts. I want to be established as an actor, because that's what I was. But I happened to do martial arts, right?

Right? So when I started doing movies with martial arts in it, what was cool is that a lot of people, executives, they thought, oh, he's being doubled. Whatever, they didn't realize I was efficient in that. That you could really do it. Right, yeah. So, but that was by design because I didn't want to first start doing

martial art movies and be on martial arts island and everybody think that you can't act. Because, yeah, because most people who do martial art movies, that's all they do. and I knew, just like with Wesley, who's done a whole lot of work, once he got known for something dealing with martial arts, he got branded like that.

Right. Even though he's a fabulous actor, people tend to forget that. And a lot of times with people with me, they forget that too to some degree. But no, I'm an actor, and even when I do the stuff with martial arts, it might, you know, it might be by way of the action

I may be doing martial arts in it, but, of course, people like to put you on a certain shelf until you break off of that show. You've mastered martial arts at a high level. It's like a seven degree black belt, I think? Well, I got eight black belts, right, in different varying degrees. But, like, that's just a mainstay of my life, you know.

But I apply martial arts to everything in my life, you know. You know, anything, being a better father. It's about overcoming obstacles. That's what martial arts about, even though it's kind of like people look at the fighting aspects of it And that kind of derails everything because everybody starts just thinking about because most people are insecure

and they think about the fighting and, you know, whooping somebody's ass. That's only a very small part of what martial arts is designed for. You know, it's really designed for, to develop a person overall. But, you know, so I kind of use martial arts

in every aspect of my life because it's about discipline. What did martial arts teach you about patience and ego that acting did? Oh, my God. Yeah, so much. It's just life. taught me a lot about ego. I never seen anybody

with a big ego who was happy in my life. And then even a martial arts, you got the ego, somebody's going to humble your ass, right? There's always checks and balances. So, I look at it like that anyway. Like, you know, again, I don't know what's

the lure of being egotistical. Because I don't see it amount to anything. You know, because you're going to have to look at the world. I mean, when people, kiss your ass and tell you your wonderful one. That was a good lesson to learn in the martial arts because I applied it to life and when, you know, there's people

who, you know, they admire you or whatever, but they're going to like kind of big up you. But if your ego gets big, it's only going to hurt you. Like I said, I don't see anybody with big ego who's happy. I just never seen it. But, you know, you start to try to color the world the way

you want to color because because of your ego. So that's why I do a lot of different martial arts because I have a black belt and something. I put a white belt on and something else. But that's like in life, man. I might know this, but let me know about this. What got you into martial arts as a kid?

Insecurity, to be honest with you. You know, I grew up in Brooklyn and Bridgeport, Connecticut where, like, life was crazy. I've been on my own since I was 14. I've been through stuff that you see on movies. And I got to be the happiest, person I know because I know where I came from. And so, man, when I walk around and think about,

oh, man, I remember what happened on this street, you know? I remember what happened on this street. And I go, man, I got to do nothing but give back because I'm so damn lucky. What got you, what got you, like, what was the person that got you into martial arts? What did you see? Because, you know, growing up in Brooklyn, the time you grew up in Brooklyn, Gleesons was the thing. Everybody wanted the box, right?

They wanted to be Zab or they wanted to be Tyson. Right, right. It was so many things. But what got you into the actual, you know what? I want to try this. Well, shoot, man. As a kid going, I mean, in Bronx, we're looking at these movies, seeing five fingers of death.

Yeah, yeah, yeah. And seeing the power. Yep, yep. And being his insecure kid, I wanted to create, I wanted to create, like, I wanted to protect myself. I wanted to have that strength because I was sensitive. And so what do you do if you're sensitive? You, you, anything valuable or fragile, you put in a safe.

And so in the street, I became the safe. Putting myself in the martial arts being like, you can't touch me. I got to protect myself. Just like when I, you know, I eventually played the brother Tyson, who was very similar to myself. A lot of people think that, oh, yeah, you knocked that out. I was really playing a lot of me with his voice. Right.

Right. But, so I understood that. And very much like him, at an early age, I understood, like, the power of a pugilist. If you have the power to whip somebody's ass, what that affords you as a young man growing up in Brooklyn, right? So I learned a lot of these lessons. And fortunately, I didn't have to develop with the whole world looking at me like Tyson did. Right. You know, so, yeah, like I say, man, I'm very blessed.

I got a lot of lessons and learned a lot. And as a result, man, I'm one of the happiest people I know. You said a couple of things I want to expound on. I love what you said about you can be a black belt in one thing, but then be a white belt in another. You expand on that? Yeah, man, I think that's what you should be in life, period, man. I love to learn.

I love to learn. So, you know, it's like what Bruce Lee said, be an empty cup. You know, empty cup, you can be filled with whatever contents there is. So there's a lot of things that I apply with, certain martial arts principles in life. But like anything that gives you a certain amount of power, just like people who might be religious leaders or what have you, you can adapt the doctrine that got you there.

But if you are like subject to your own ego, you start creating your own religion. You start creating your own thing. The insecure person that you was returns. because when men are honored too much or you got too much big ups or whatever, we tend to revert back to that. But, you know, we started out as insecure individuals

in the first place. It's not like it really went away. You got to police that. Hopefully you go through something that teaches you those lessons so you don't make those mistakes. But at age 14, how did you figure it out on your own? Because you were a kid.

I looked like a grown-ass man. At 14. I have not grown an inch since then. Okay. And I was fighting, grown men, I was fighting in men's divisions winning heavyweight. I was a heavyweight competitor. He could have played basketball. He's this height at 14?

Yeah, dude. I was, in fact, somebody who came up right on, I don't know if you know Charles Smith, but we were, we were like, they called us the Twin Towers, but he just kept going. Yeah, of course. Play for next. But, yeah, so we grew up, like, in the same area, right? So, but anyway, like, I was, I looked like a man early on. And I was, like, fighting in tournaments.

And I was on my own at 14, really. And because my mother, you know, blessed her heart, you know, rest and peace. She was a sweet church-going woman from the South. She was, she was a type of person that would say, those kids out there shooting that marijuana. I'm like, you don't shoot marijuana. I was on my own. I just was like, and she was sweet woman, she couldn't handle somebody like me, you know.

And so I was out there. I was out in the streets. Yeah, it's like, you know, there was part of me that was in fear. I'm like, how much does Charlemagne know about my past? They're like, you know, hey, man, you know, when you was called Bam Bam, I know somebody. I was like, I'd be like, but anyway.

But just to say, man, I'm blessed. I've been through a whole lot, and now I get a chance to cheer my, experiences, put it on screen, because there's not many people who came from where I came from who's in the position I am now, right? It's rare. But again, I'm walking around blessed, man.

And I love what you said about power too, right? Because, you know, when you have that knowing, if I wanted to, I could destroy you. They say true power is knowing you can destroy somebody, but walking away. True, true. I mean, it's kind of, it doesn't enter my mind. It enters a lot of other people's mind.

And I go, well, bless them. I could be sitting down with a chairman or something or a big-time, like a producer. And I got to hear the first thing out of his mouth was like, well, I used to wrestle in college. I'm like, oh, geez. So this man is thinking about like this, you know, quantifying himself. But I go, well, that's his deal.

Some people look at me like a forearm monster. right and I'm coming in with love right really I'm not ever thinking about anything physical or fighting or anything it never enters my mind I know I can handle myself but it's it's what other people define as a martial arts and all that kind of stuff but because there's a lot of a lot of misrepresentations out there right that lead with their insecurity and but it's it's the the humble peaceful, real martial artists out there that don't really get

the attention that they should. I mean, rest in peace, Chuck Norris. You know, people who really followed the principle. You know, but you got, you know, some loud mouths of people who are very self-agronizing that get a lot of attention.

But, yeah, but it's deeper than that. And it's deeper than that. And it's about, you know, overcoming out your obstacles. You just belt levels, right? It's white, yellow, blue, all that type of stuff. Obstacles is what you're going to be facing the rest of your life. And your biggest obstacle is you.

Overcome yourself, you can conquer anything. So that's really what it is. And that's where the peace comes from. That's where I don't have to prove myself to anybody. But sometimes it makes people kind of reflect on themselves and go, you know, whatever that is, I don't have that. But, you know, God bless you. But I'm not, I come in peace, you know.

But a lot of people look. cat, it's like, oh, he could rip my throat out. I'm like, I'm sorry, you're thinking about that. I'm not thinking about that. And I would be, I'd probably be the last person in the crowd who would ever go there. I'm the person that basically, like, for me to lose control, come on now, you're all going to lose control before I will. You know, I know what I can do, but that's not, that doesn't even come to mind.

So I'm the person that's thinking about protecting everybody in the room. Not hurting everybody in the room. Have you ever had to, like, when you go into those meetings and the guys are like, you know, talking about martial arts and perceiving you that way, like, had to check it, like actually bring it into conversation like, hey, that's not even where I'm at. Or do you just, you're so far removed, you just kind of...

Well, yeah, I try to just get the conversation back on track. That's really what it is. Because some people just don't understand. Because, like I said, there's a lot of people that misrepresent what this is about. And want to understand, well, what is this? power that they perceive. And, of course, man, I'm kicking people in the neck in movies, right?

So I forget that people are seeing that, right? I come like this and they're thinking, man, he just did. I got too many stories about that because I forget what I do for living, but I don't walk around with that. I don't think about that, right? But other people do. I can't say it's a bad thing because, I mean, it puts me where I am and makes me global, right?

but there's an assigned image of who I am because of the movies. But that's, you know, people who really know me, they know I'm a goofball. I have fun in life. My children, they ain't scared of me. It's like, it's a sitcom in my house. I was going to ask, you know,

with the movie business, that shifted your life a little bit. And the reason I say that is growing up, And we used to look towards movies as a big major release, right? And I'm even looking at Michael. I don't know if you see Michael, but I couldn't imagine seeing Michael at the crib. Like, that's something I needed to see on that big screen in the music. But it's shifted so much where now, you know, you do a movie.

It's no longer a major movie release. And now it's on, we know, Hulu or Tooby or Netflix or, you know, BT or how has that shifted the way that you think about movies if it has at all? Well, I've shifted into, I like streaming. series a lot more because they dare to be unique. And a lot of times in movies, they're so scared to

give you an experience. It's so like formulaic. You know, so you've seen a lot of movies, you see the trailer, you've seen the whole damn movie. But it's, I recognize that, right? And I've been

blessed to be able to do my own things and produce my own stuff. Right now I've got three different movies out right now. We've got secret between us that's in theaters right now. I got Oscar Shaw, which is doing really well, which is

a, you know, gritty drama. And I got this goofy movie that brought me here, like the... Special out of rent-a-cop, right? Yeah, which is a whole different thing. I was like, you know, intending to him being like a kindergarten cop type of thing. But I'm blessed to have these three very different type of movies out

at the same time, which is like, you know, it lets me do, you know, You don't work out different muscles and stuff. But, you know, so with films, now I'm doing a lot more of my own, right? Writing, directing, like, with Hossil Takeover and Trouble Man, which I did with Brother Method Man, you know, from here. I get a chance to do these things that really is in my zeitgeist. And I got more movies coming out. And, of course, you might know about the White Egg game.

Mary Mary. Three. Two or three. Three. Damn, that's three. God, damn. And that's going to be,

believe me, that's going to be the best one of them on. Yeah, but yeah, but like, yeah, I shift that. I really like a lot of, I like movies that are not so formulae

that you can't figure out from, like, day one. You were doing superhero movies, you know, way before the superhero boom, right? Yes, sir.

Do you ever look at today's landscape and feel like you were ahead of your time? I don't look at things like that I don't ever think of myself being ahead of nothing really I just you know trape's long do my thing yeah it was it was wonderful to be the first black superhero in that but I didn't expect that that was going to yield any

any particular thing I don't have those expectations but yeah I'm I'm honored to be in that category some of the superhero movies now I'm just I'm not really into that because I feel like they're kind of doing the same thing and it's I'm not the target audience it's a younger audience that they're looking for I'm 47 I love superhero movies

I'm saying it is but it's not a lot of the superhero movies I feel like it's a cult audience like they grow up with you they want to see you he still buys the costumes for Halloween he dresses up like you know what I'm like I've gotten into the D.C. because of the TV series right right right the peacemaker was dope penguin was dope

Greenland is going to be dope I love the TV series movies is I'm just seeing the formula all the time. You know, so I like the straight rest milk, basically. You know, something that's going to be its own thing. So, yeah, I have respect for the movies that try to notch out their own kind of personality to it. But yeah.

But somebody landing in a three-point stance and then lick up, I'll turn the channel. The superhero landed? Yeah, yeah. I'm like, oh, not for me, you know. Yeah, so, yeah, I like to. I like the television stuff a lot more. What is the plot of why did I get married through or you can't say anything?

Oh, yeah, I can say a little bit, I think. I'm pretty sure. But, I mean, I got to commend Tyler on this one because even on the onset of the script, the subject matter is stuff that I haven't even seen in a movie before. One of the things I think I could talk about is the fact that as parents, right, we like to be exemplary role models to our children

and children don't know all the messing up that we did before. And that was a thing that I always thought was great about. So this is a podcast about video games. Kind of. It's also about friendship. Definitely. And chaos. Unavoidably.

Welcome to It's Dangerous to Go Alone. A podcast where we talk games, culture, and nostalgia, and immediately go off topic. There is no gatekeeping. There is no skill check. If you win a game on Easy Mode, we support you. If you've never touched a controller, honestly, same energy for some of us. It's fun, it's chaotic. It's friendship with a loose gaming theme.

And somehow we keep getting away with it. You should listen. Stream it's dangerous to go alone on the free IHeartRadio app Or wherever you get your podcasts Another podcast from some SNL late night comedy guide Not quite. Unhumor me with Robert Smygel and friends Me and hilarious guests from Jim Gaffigan To Bob Odenkirk to David Letterman

Help Make You Funnier This week my guest, SNL's Mikey Day and head writer Streeter Seidel Help an Acapella band with their between songs banter The Worst singer in the group The worst? Yeah Me. Is there anything to the ice? idea that because you're from Harvard, you only got in because your parents

made a huge donation. The group. The yard birds, right? That's the name. The Harvard Yardt. They're open. Do you have a name suggestion? We're open.

Since you guys are middle-aged, one erection. Listen to humor me with Robert Smigel and Friends on the I-Heart radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast. You love me. I need some jokes to make me seem funny. A win is a win. A win is a win.

I don't care which I'm saying. Yep, that's me, Cliver Taylor the 4th. You might have seen the skits, the reactions, my journey from basketball to college football, or my career in sports media. Well, somewhere along the way, this platform became bigger than I ever imagined. And now I'm bringing all of that excitement

to my brand new podcast, The Clifford Show. This is a place for raw, unfiltered conversations with some of your favorite athletes, creators, and voices that not only deserve to be heard, but celebrated. One week, I'll take you behind the scenes of the biggest moments in sports and entertainment, and the next we'll talk about life, mental health, purpose, and even music. The Clifford Show isn't just a podcast, it's a space for honest conversations, stories that don't always get told, and for people who are chasing something bigger.

So, if you've ever supported me, or you're just chasing down a dream, this is right where you need to be. Listen to the Clifford Show on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcast, or we're you get your podcast. And for more behind the scenes, follow at Clifford and at TikTok podcast network on TikTok. Do you remember when Diana Ross double-tap Little Kim's boobs at the VMAs? Or when Kanye said that George Bush didn't like black people. I know what you're thinking. What the hell does George Bush got to do with Little Kim? Well, you can find out on the Look Back at it podcast. I'm Sam J. And I'm Alex English. Each episode, we pick a here,

unpack what went down, and try to make sense of how we survived it. Including a recent episode, with Mark Lamont Hill waxing all about crack in the 80s. To be clear, 84 was big to me, not just because of crack. I'm down to talk about crack all day, but just so you all know. I mean, at this point, Mark, this is the second episode where we've discussed crack. So I'm starting to see that there's a through line. We also have AIDS on the table right now. Thank you for finishing that sentence.

Yes. I don't think there's a more important year for black people. Really? Yeah. For me, it's one of the most important years for black people in American history. Listen to look back at it on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Because I never saw a movie that dealt with that. As parents, we always do that.

They don't know how messed up we were, you know? And so there's a concept of that in this movie. There's actually four concepts in this movie that could have been movies by itself. So Tyler really stepped on up on this. And I'm, you know, I try to be, I'm always honest. I'm like, it's a superstition to me. me. I'm honest with Tyler's, I consider him

a friend, first and foremost, before anything, and I never lied to nobody. I feel like he really stepped up and in a whole lot of ways in this movie. Y'all teamed it already? Yeah, it's done. Okay, okay. I saw photos. Yeah, we shot in Lake Como, Italy, and

then, you know, he's doing some, I'm proud of what he's doing, and y'all going to like this. Jill Scott back, everybody? Jill Scott, Taraji's now. Yeah, she's in it. Not Janet, though. No, she didn't.

I don't know. Yeah, well, I think people know that she's not in this one. Gotcha. But, yeah, but Taraji, man, she kills it. Everybody kills. And there's a young audience. There's a young audience in this movie. Our children, man, these young actors are killing it.

I mean, DaVinci plays my son, you know, from BMF. There's, like, amazing. I mean, just even standing on set watching them do their thing, man. I was like, this is going to be, this is going to be fire. Wow. You said Tyler Perry stepped it up a few times. In what ways?

He stepped it up. The way he's shooting movies now is very innovative. He shoots it really in a short period of time, but keeps the energy right there. Like a lot of times when you're doing movies, right, you will, you do your scene, then you got to pick up from that energy like hours later after they change the camera angles.

He does this. innovative thing where you stay in the moment and you're in it, right? And it preserves performances like you would not believe. And so that energy and that when you're in that moment, you stay in it. Right. So it's, you know, me as a director, I'm, you know, I've jotted some things down. I've got to apply. How was he able to do that without changing the lens and without moving things around?

How was he able to keep y'all on energy? Because usually. Oh, my God. He's got, if you were, if you're a cameraman, man, in his set, you better be in shape. Because this brother would use seven steady camps and move them joints around and keep them moving. And you don't have to wait.

That's the thing. You don't have to wait for your performance. So he's shooting the movie quicker, too. Oh, my God. Oh, my God. What normally would take two hours, he'll do in 15 minutes because he knows editing. You know, I started out, I did a lot of editing too,

so I understood how he was doing this. And, you know, as an actor, you're like, do we have everything? But no, he's got all these different things. He's really stepping up. People don't realize because people get used to who somebody is and they don't realize, you know, man, this cat is growing in this way that I see as an artist that, that I, dare I say, man, I'm putting a lot of his stuff into my repertoire.

How does he, I don't know how much you can share, But how does he like in Janet Jackson's story though in this new one without her being there? Because like I feel like we were left on a cliff of like how is she going to continue her life and you know she's grieving her husband and That was the first movie right? You're talking about the second? That was the last time we saw Janet was when she lost her husband, correct? When did Malikio would die? Yeah, it's like lost her husband.

She helped him lose. She helped lose him. Regardless, I'm just saying I just want to know like what's the like because. Is that the first one the second one? I don't remember. You know, sometimes that I can. get mixed up myself. But it's,

I can't, I can't really speak on that. It's not like she's gone, gone. She's like, like, well, I forget how we dealt with it in the, in the, in the script,

but it's, you know, we'll get some closure. Yeah, you definitely get close. I mean, it's like, hey, I believe there's going to be a, why did I get married for? And if everybody's,

uh, schedule's aligned, you're going to see her again. Because when he was, when Tyler Perry posted that script, it kind of made everybody, that's when we got excited for it and he had originally tagged it. Then when I saw

the photos of y'all in Italy, she wasn't in the photos. So we were like, what the heck happened? But here it is, man. We, we, everybody, why focus on what's not in there? You know we love our characters. Like, we, we, I feel like we, we feel like we're wrong with those characters.

If that wasn't Jill, we'd be talking about Jill right now. Oh, yes, we would. If that wasn't somebody else, we'd be talking about them right now. A hundred percent. But we could, but there's, there's a percentage of people who did make it in there in a wonderful script and a wonderful movie that we could be talking about too. Honestly, she didn't kill her character in the

first five minutes after what she did to her husband. Okay. Damn. It caused that argument. He said this. No, for real. At least we get that. Because I'm, if y'all tell me she died in the car accident in the first five minutes, I'll be like, good. That's what she gets to arguing with that man like that.

Sometimes I like the fact that he can say things that I can't say. I wanted to go back to 2001 for a second. Exit Wounds. Did a movie with DMX. I was working with DMX. Wonderful. Man, we became instant friends, man.

Like, yeah, DMX was a really solid cat, man. That friendship kept on. Dee were coming to town. We would always link up. Yeah, it was real cool. It was real cool. Sad to see him go. He was a really, really deep brother.

You know, he had his demons that he was dealing with. But, yeah, he was, man. He loved the martial arts, too. He loved martial arts, yeah. Yeah, yeah. Yeah, yeah, we became cousin, basically. I didn't DMX feel about Stevens ago. I think you might know about that.

Like, I don't think anybody really dug him. Nobody, so it wasn't just you. No, nobody. No, no, no, I mean to be honest with you, yeah. Yeah, but, you know, it's a sad situation with that cat, man. For people that don't know, what was the beef about or the problems? Or why did people like him as much as? Well, I just saw you criticize his on-set behavior.

Oh, yeah, yeah. Yeah, everybody. I mean, he, yeah, it's, unfortunately. Like, so, I mean, I was a fan early on. Steve's a guy, right? Worked with him three different times. And I don't know. Like, I've, and you might forget, like, I was actually low-key helping him in a lot of ways.

I got him as his dietitian, his trainer, and all these different things at one time, even without him even knowing. I was designing his damn diet on Yeah but But yeah And I tried to hook him up with His doctor to help him out as well So my thing was like

You know I tried to hold on to the images he first had Which I was a fan of in the earlier Works but like we talked about Man the ego man It don't serve nobody I don't know why he always kind of tried to present himself like he's a bad man, he's a fighter or whatever.

I think it's the insecurity that started him out in this whole thing. But man, it's like he just, I think he played himself with overplaying his hand so people start going, hey, wait a minute, this don't make no sense. And, you know, it's a lesson for people. You know, it kind of goes back to what I'm talking about. I don't think anybody want to trade places with that man and that's what ego gets you I was told that he would

do scenes with like stuntmen and hurt them when it came to real martial artist he didn't want to engage. No, no, no, no. I mean, yeah, it's, yeah, unfortunately that's the truth of the matter. See, I owe my allegiance to real martial artist

too much to be able to brand him in the same way. No, no. He had a lot of, like, issues. And, you know, if you let him get away with stuff, he's going to get away with it. And there's people that just won't let him get away with that. Like you? True. Yeah, true.

But, you know, that's what it is. But, you know, I always try to stay positive with the stuff. But, yeah, but everything I talked about, it was truth. Like, you know, doing exit wounds and the director and producer trying to set him up. They purposely made our fight scene the last thing in the whole movie. Let me know, yo, man, if you heard him, we could finish the movie with a stunt double. But I'm like, seriously? Like, y'all really?

Yeah, I'm talking from the top. From the top, the producers and the director is like, yo, you know. And I'm like, really? Just kick him in the neck for real. Yeah, yeah, because people wanted to see him hurt. But I was like, I wasn't going to do that. You got to do it. Yeah, I got to be who I am, man.

So my thing is, I hate bullies and I wasn't going to be one. And that's the truth of it. And he knows, he knows what's up with that. And I was like, he can see the fixes. And I'm like, don't worry about it. He wouldn't touch me when we were doing the thing because he felt what he knew, you know. He knew if he went too far. Well, and I beat him in the film.

Right. Right. It's not like he lays a hand on me. It's set up that way. Like Joe Silver's like, we ain't going to believe he will beat you. So they designed the fight to be, I'm the one that knocks him down and I leave.

He hooks a rope ladder onto the helicopter and I fall off the rope ladder and die, right? Not by him beating. So first time in his career, like somebody beats him, he has to outsmart me. and, you know, my demise comes later on because I'm like, I don't want to kill you, I got some place to go.

So that's one of these things where, okay, he's susceptible. I'm throwing punches at him. I'm doing stuff to knock him down. So it's easy for me to slip up and like, oops, sorry about that. You know what I mean? But I'm not doing that.

I'm not trying to do that. That's chicken. That's not me, even though everybody's trying to encourage that. And so I know in the rap party, right, the rap party, he's, thank you, whatever, he's respectful, all that kind of stuff. And then he'll flip on me and talk about me and Van Dam or whatever, but that made him look silly. And so I really don't even have the service that. We ran into each other in Thailand. He man to man apologized for all of that, right?

but still, you know, be false. But I'm like, that's you, man. You know, you made yourself look silly. Right. And, you know, again, you know, who wants to be that cat? You know, and everybody's clowning him now. And that, he brought that on himself.

Gotcha. Yeah. What separates someone who trains from someone who is actually dangerous? Well, it's your will, right? I don't care what tools you got. It's what's inside. Right? So it's, it's, well, the thing about that people don't understand about martial arts, if you're overcoming yourself, you can, it's your will that makes you dangerous, really. It's that thing that says, I will go through fire and stop you and take you out. There's a certain will of a human being that you cannot stop me. And that's that, that's what is, the power in that, that I discipline myself,

I train myself, I could push myself way deeper than society can push me. And so that's what you're up against. You up against a will. It extends beyond just physicality, right? One of the arts I do is called Kyokishin, and it really is that. And in Kyokishin, you get to your, your limit,

your physical limit all the time, and you have to push beyond that. And so by doing that, it is your will that's doing that. It's not just something that's just a sport, whatever. It's something that, you know, derives things from you. Like I call it like the Navy Seals of martial arts because you could do it for 20 years and not make a black belt. Just like Jiu-Jitsu is today, which I really respect a great deal.

Then you're just handing out black belts in that. you really got to go through the burning sands. And so that's the thing. Society's gotten much easier. It's much softer. And so it's a great thing for somebody. Sometimes you have to police yourself to really arrive at where you want to be as a man

because you're not tested anymore. Back in the day, there was a rites of passage that you had to go through. You either had to go to armed forces, you had to go or just even to live life you had to get to a place where it's like I would die for this you know for true adulthood

true manhood well you're not tested anymore so you have the trappings of adulthood right you have the trappings because you have the age and you says tells you yeah I'm a full man until you get you run into adversity and it tells you who you really are right but see now with martial arts or armed forces anything that derives

discipline that stands for discipline you have to go across the burning sands and when you get to the other side of that there's no there's no substitute for that well how do you deal with you know you talk about that but we talk about social media right where you got people

that could talk about your family your relationships and even say things to you that you know they wouldn't say to your face but they're comfortable enough to do it on the phone because they know I ain't going to see you Yeah, well, you know, you have to, that's a part of me that, like, I had to grow up on. Because even in social media, early days, Ruth, there's several people that I showed up.

Did you? Really? You know, where years is early days? Oh, my God. There was martial artists that talk crap, and I'm going, I travel a lot, mother. I travel a lot. And there was times where I showed up on people's dojo and be like, let's continue this conversation. And they're like, oh, oh.

And it's like, no, no, no. You know, there was a part of me for a long time. It's like I had that Wishamunk Wood type of gene. Because there's a part of me that really enjoyed fighting. And I'm like, oh, you may knock me out. I will celebrate it. I'm like, yo, man, you were better than I thought. That's something that, that's a mono or mono thing.

And something that I don't mind facing. but hopefully so if you're talking that hopefully you ready you ready for that too right right so because it's all good but i actually get more upset if you don't step up because it's not really about the ego thing but it's like as a man i don't i don't disrespect anybody right and so i think i'm you disrespect me i'm going okay we can speak about this there was times where i i showed up or when I'm because you know I you know there's things that I consider that's important and integrity is important to me and so some people might be spouting off but I'm like we can see each other man and I'm open to be wrong and be like oh you really knew what you was talking

about you know blessings but it's like let's do this but then I that happened several times where I'm going, this guy was just talking. This guy was just talking. And it's like, it was not worth my time. This could have went south. Just growing up, I just grew up with that whole, like, I'm from here. And it's like, yo, we can understand each other as men and, you know, and deal with the outcome. But this world ain't made the same cats anymore, really. but I'm still not going to take anybody, you know, short.

Like, but I can't invest that kind of time. It took me several times ago. Yeah, that wasn't worth it. You're not, you're not dealing with somebody who looks at things the same way. Yeah, so, but yeah. So now I just go, bless you. I get it. You're a negative person.

You're looking for the negativity. And you want to spout stuff. And, you know, there it is. But like, sometimes I think that they're another person that wants to test themselves, which I can respect. But I used to think I would be called out a lot. It didn't really happen very much because I always love to train with some of the top fighters. Like, I mean, I was just with Israel as Adasanya like two weeks ago when I was in New Zealand.

You know, I loved skillful people and working with them and testing myself. Is it get busy? Yeah, yeah, yeah. But, you know, he's got to get back on on the basics now. Because I think, like, he's so talented that he's lost kind of, like, track on some, some things. And we're going to train, you know, more together in the future. You'll think he should retire? No, he's still very, yeah, he's, he, he shouldn't go out like now.

You know, he's, he's got, he's got aspirations and that I let him talk about. But he's not done as a fighter yet. Okay. But he's heads and tails, like, more talented than the rest of the field. But sometimes, kind of like Anderson Sober in my, like, you, you get a little bit ahead of yourself and you want to, like, kind of, you know, 360 dunk on people. But, no, just go to the basics again, you know, and exploit that.

But, you know, he agrees. You know, I think you haven't seen the last of him. And he's going to step it up. He's going to do what's necessary and, you know, kind of climb to where he needs to be. I love what you said even, too, about meeting up with people, right? Because that's not a matter of wanting to, you know, impose physical dominance. Sometimes it's just to respect them. I respect anything somebody can say to me.

Yes, yes. I just don't respect the over-the-social media, the long paragraph. Yes, sir. You got to show me that vernacular in person. Let's have a conversation. That's it. Yeah, man. Yeah.

So with, I've trained with a lot of champions because there's a part of me that's like, I want to learn. I want to continue to learn. You know, it's like I'm a nerd with it, right? So, you know, with John Jones, man, and, and Rampage, Jackson, all these people who had championships, I'm here like, yeah, let's build. Let's, let's work on this because, you know, you're elite fighter. Now I can work on my elite stuff with you, you know?

So I've been like, I've been blessed with. that. And so, yeah, so it's weird because some reason, like, I still feel like I'm in my 30s physically. I know that's going to change, and so on that day, you know, it's going

come. But right now, I'm feeling just as good as I ever did. Yeah. Yeah, so, you know, I'm blessed, so I'm using that. That's why people talk to you about Marshall. You ever see that you don't watch superhero movies, but in Avengers Tony Stark had the little electric shock and he poked Bruce Bannon with it.

Just to see him turn it. He said, I just want to see if you do it. He wants to see if you turn into the Hulk. You just want to see. Yeah. That's all. You want to see you get busy. You can't be trying to eff around and find out with somebody that can,

if your discipline, you know, doesn't stop you, can really put some things on you. True, true. I mean, but, like, I tell you, man, like, I've trained with a lot of champions. And the thing I'll brag about is when I get humble. Because that's when I learn stuff, right? And, you know, I mean, I was, I was trained with Michael Bisbing. and man, like the third round, I was so tired that I was like, I was useless.

And that taught me to always keep my cardio up. I have never been that out of shape since then. And that was years ago. And so, like, I learned things from that, right? So it's about your, when you, you know, when you get humbled. You know, so yeah, so that's the stuff I brag about. Like, yeah, I'm, you know, I got, I, Like I say, I'm a nerd with it.

And so I try to share that while I can. Because one day I'm going to be walking with a cane. Well, until then, I'm going to enjoy what I can now. Because, you know, I have a chance to. And congratulations on your Bruce Lee Award. You're the first non-Asian to win that award last year. Oh, thank you, man. Thank you.

That meant a lot to me, really. I didn't expect it. But, yeah, but, you know, I used to train with Shannon Lee, Bruce Lee's daughter. And we did Wushu You know It's like a kung fu It's very flowery

Very Like what Jet Li does So yeah We used to train together Way back Under a guy named Eric Chen It was like You know

Amazing Like one of the top He was like the top Wushu Teachers in the country And we And I used to go to To China with him

He should travel China with him And he was one of my Instructors When I was 14 Wow. Yes, yes. You've done a lot so young.

Yeah, I was, man, I was so blessed. I mean, yeah, when I think about the people I train with, there's like, who's who in the martial arts and different branches of that. So I would go with Eric Chen to Beijing and train under Wu Bin, who was Jet Li's teacher. And so I'm, you know, from that same camp and just to compete in China.

So, yeah, that's like a blessing. You know, like I say, one of the luckiest martial artist out there. That's all you say, I don't know who Tony, Emmy,

or Oscar were, but I know who Bruce Lee is. That's true. That's what I said. Yeah, yeah, because, I mean, I ain't going to try to shit on the Oscars,

but, you know, I never really watched those things, really. And, you know, it's weird to compare art, you know, to me.

But, but, you know, with the Bruce Lee Award, That meant something. That's my village. And so to get that award from the person who, the greatest martial artist ever to live and who's emulated every day

and who's created an industry, yeah, that was something that was close to my heart. And the train with Shannon? Shannon's dope. I had a conversation with her a few weeks ago, a nice long conversation. Yeah. She's dope.

Yeah, she's always been nice. She's one of the most quality people way back. So she's running the foundation and doing her father proud. We appreciate you for joining us this morning, brother. Appreciate you, too. Mike Gai White, the new movie, special op. Renner Cop is out right now. And thank you for joining us, brother.

We appreciate it. Thank you. Let's do this again, man. Next time you're in the city, come on up, man. Yes, sir, yes, sir. Appreciate you guys. Thank you. All right, it's the Breakfast Club.

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