The Breakfast Club - INTERVIEW: Nicole Avant Opens Up About Grief, Finding Forgiveness, Faith & Her Parents' Greatest Advice

Episode Date: October 18, 2023

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Wake that ass up early in the morning. The Breakfast Club. Morning everybody, it's DJ Envy, Charlamagne Tha Guy. We are The Breakfast Club. We got a special guest in the building. Yes, indeed. We have Nicole Avant. Welcome.

Thank you. How are you feeling this morning? I feel so happy to be in New York. Honestly, because my parents just rolled in New York and met here. My mom grew up here and I just feel Clarence and Jackie everywhere. Yeah, I do. I feel, I woke up this morning, I'm looking at this city. I'm like, all right, mom. All right, dad, let's do this. Did you always have that connection with New York? Yes. Okay. Always. Why? Because of the story? Yeah. And just being here and, you know, I was actually conceived in New York and then they moved to LA and yes, I'm an

LA girl, but I, we always spent time here all my cousins are here so Jamaica Queens and New Rochelle and you know Harlow I got people all over New Jersey and so I just love New York how do you know you was conceived here that's not a question that's not something most kids know like did you ask those questions or you just I did the timeline and I thought okay by the time you moved to LA okay I was like, well, I did the timeline. And I thought, okay, by the time you moved to L.A., I was like, you were pregnant when you moved to L.A. Got you. I was like, okay, so I'm a New Yorker.

You're a New Yorker. I love that. This is Nicole Avant, the daughter of the legendary Clarence Avant, the legendary daughter of Jacqueline Avant. And she wrote a book, Think You'll Be Happy. And you know how I feel about your father. I've told you that a million times. I got the opportunity to tell Mr. Clarence himself.

He's one of my top four inspirations ever in this entertainment business. Like, he was the guy. Thank you for saying that. He really was. I mean, he's stealth. I've never seen, I mean, he was 92 when he passed. And that man going through his whole life and documenting his life and looking at everything I said you had a million opportunities to quit

and would have every reason to quit and no one would have ever judged you and he looked at me like why would you you don't quit you don't get to quit you You could pause. You could pivot. But no, like your life is your life. You don't know how long you're going to be here. And his whole thing is like you come with a number and you end with a number. That's right. So what are you going to do with your dash? That was it. What are you going to do with your life?

And it wasn't about fame for him. His whole thing is, is you know greatness is very different from being famous that's right and a lot of people now the new generations are like oh if i'm famous i'm famous i'll be great no you're great and you're worthy and you're valuable just because you're alive you don't have to have a title to be great that's right you know or worthy or important or significant that's right right. You know? Absolutely. So that's what I'm feeling a lot. That was his whole thing, even when he was passing away.

And as, you know, his last days with me, he was, you know, his last words basically were like, keep your mind right, girl. Wow. Keep your mind right. Okay, daddy, I will. That's going to be the name of the book. Yes. The Ray Clarence book, Keep Your Mind Right.

Yes, yeah, Keep Your Mind Right. Okay. Yes, and with all his isms. Okay. Because this book is Think You'll Be Happy. Let people know name of the book? Yes. Will you write a Clarence book, Keep Your Mind Right? Yes, yeah, Keep Your Mind Right. Okay. Yes, and with all his isms. Okay. Because this book is Think You'll Be Happy. Let people know why that title is so important. So Think You'll Be Happy, Moving Through Grief with Grit, Grace, and Gratitude. This, I was already writing a book in 2020 after I did The Black Godfather.

And I thought, you know what? I'm going to write a book maybe based on the themes of The Black Godfather, which were, I picked three themes, grit, grace, and gratitude. And then I'm writing it in a couple of drafts, and they weren't right, nothing was landing. And then this tragedy, you know, my mom is killed during a home invasion, and I'm like, oh, God. And I thought, well, I have this book that I was writing well I'm

not gonna we're not putting this out how are you gonna put out a book on grit grace and gratitude after this but my father was like no you don't you don't let anyone take your life you don't let anyone stop you from doing what you're supposed to be doing so I said yeah but dad it's called grit grace and gratitude and then think you'll be. Those were the last words that my mom said to me at eight o'clock that night. So we were texting about a sweet potato pie. And she said, you know, because my dad, typical Clarence, they came for Thanksgiving the week before that he took his leftovers and we didn't even get to the pie that my mom brought for me and she was so proud that she brought me this great pie

and he took it home. So every day after Thanksgiving, she's like, come get your pie. Come get your pie. And I said, mom, you and this pie. It's okay. And then she texted me that night at eight o'clock and we went back and forth

about the sweet potato pie. And I said, I'll come get it tomorrow. I'll think about it. I'll come get it tomorrow. She said, okay, think you'll be happy. Never saw her again. Never heard from her again. And so when that happened, I thought, you know what?

And then we looked at, when I was showing my publisher, my team, the last text, they were like, that's the title of the book because your mom actually didn't just say, think you'll be happy about a sweet potato pie. You know, energetically and spiritually, that was your mantra to go forward in life. That was your mantra to go, because my mom was a big believer on your words and your

actions and your thoughts will create your life. It just can't change. We see proof of that every single day. So I was like, right. I think you'll be happy. Okay. Okay. I'm going to do this and I'm going to move through my grief. I was going to ask, how long did it take and how difficult was it? Oh, it was. So I started writing right after she, I finished writing after she passed. So, you know, a year and a half, two years, altogether three years. And it was difficult to write because it was reopening the wound. Kind of felt like salt going back into the wound. so the most cathartic thing I could have ever done because I was able to share stories and

remember stories about her that did make me happy, that did make me grateful that Jacqueline Avon, Jackie A, that's what we used to call her, Jackie A, was my mother. And she really took pride in raising her children and supporting her family and loving her family. And she loved history, all history, but especially my history. She's like, you need to know who you are before you leave this house every day. So she had this thing and we called it the Great Wall. It was letters and anything from Booker T. Washington to Ida B. Wells to Harriet Tubman to George Washington Carver and Hank Aaron and so on. So she's like, so politics, you know, sports, entertainment, literature, art, you're going to see the greats.

Josephine Baker, there was not a day where I didn't walk out of my house where I didn't look at Josephine Baker or Ruby Bridges. You know, my mom's whole point is like, so when you go out in the world, you will understand who you come from. That's right. What stock do you come from? And then so no matter what comes against you, you'll know the truth of you owe these people a life. You know, you owe people, these people could have quit

and could have taken their own lives and they fought and here you are. Doing this book also had to be tough because you're honoring your mother with this book, but then the late great Clarence Avon passed away. So how have you been navigating that? You know, it was the last 20 months. So when my mom, when we left the hospital, so my mom, you know, she was shot, she was shot in the back. She made it to the hospital. She did not die in her house.

She made it to the hospital. She, you know, was in surgery. You know, they did what they could, but she lost way too much blood. From that moment, I looked at my father. Right when they gave us the news, I said, okay, you're coming home with me. It was just, we were all shocked, trauma, stress, all that, okay, you're coming home with me. It was just, let's just, we were all shocked, trauma, stress, all that. I just said, come home with me.

And then for the last 20 months, I said, you're gonna be my road dog. We're just gonna hang. We're gonna be together. I'm not gonna leave you. You're not gonna leave me. And we're gonna get through this shit as best as we can. I don't even know what that,

I don't even know what it looks like, Daddy. Yeah, I was like, but we are going to, we're going to get through it. And he would catch me sometimes. He's like, get out of that quicksand. Get out of that quicksand because I can see you just spiraling.

And he was so great because he was still Clarence and he basically was like, this is, I mean, some days he didn't even say killed. He never even used that word. He would say when Jackie disappeared. The day Jackie disappeared. Because it was so, you know, what?

But to have him for 20 months living under my roof with my husband and we just decided, okay, our intention with him is he's going to feel safe, he's going to feel loved, and he's going to feel secure. And it was the best 20 months I actually could have ever had because, yes, I grew up with him, but I left home at 18, never really came back home, would spend time with him, but he was busy. Clarence A. Mott was doing things.

So I never really had all his energy to myself anyway. And so now as an older man and a wiser man and a calmer man, I received so much more wisdom. And it was just out of a tragedy, that was the best thing that could have happened was that I got to live with Clarence again. Did you kind of feel like he would transition soon? Because they always say when couples have been together that long,

when one goes. I love that you asked that question. I swear to you, the first three weeks, I kept thinking, oh my God, we probably have three weeks with him. Wow. We probably have two months with him. Because to your point, all science shows, everybody shows, oh, usually if a spouse dies especially at an older

age the next one goes right after and within six months and i thought oh my god how am i gonna go how are we gonna do this and then three months would go by then another three months go by and by the time we got to nine months i looked at ten i said he's clarence av. I don't know what to tell you. I said, now I understand why they call him the Godfather. He would always say to me, I'm going to live as long as I can. And when it's time for me to go, he literally read the New York Times obituary column every single day. And he'd read about other people's lives. He loved it.

And he was like, I'm making sure I'm not in here. I'm just making sure I'm not in here today. And then I would say to him, I teased him. And I said, one day, I go, Daddy, when you do go, you're going to have the whole page. He goes, oh, Nicole, please. They probably won't put me in there. Maybe I'll have a little paragraph. And when he died, the New York Times gave him the whole back page.

And I went, there you go. That's right. Now, we know grief isn't linear and the thing I love about your book is it feels like everything your mother and father instilled in you helped you to be able to navigate this yeah hundred percent and it's not linear it's like a roller coaster grief is just some days you're good and you're like, oh, I got this. And then a song will come on the radio. I mean, my mom loved the Spinners. She loved easy music. She loved the Commodores and the Spinners and Al Green.

Any of those guys came on the radio, I was just destroyed for those five minutes of that song. Bill Withers would come on and I'd think of my mom. And grief just, it's waves but it also hits every single human being on this planet no one gets to escape grief grief is different for everybody but the the thing that helped me be calm or calm me down about it was when I got anxious was I am not the only one who's grieving today that's right I'm not the only one there's there are mothers who are burying their children around the world there are mothers in a children's hospital right who work in three jobs their five-year-old has leukemia and that's grief your dog dies it's grief you know your

grandparents die whatever it is or sometimes it's not even a death you're you're fired from a job that you loved and you gave so much of your efforts and you were just don't know what happened grief is hard but it is you are able to move through it now i want to talk forgiveness and faith right yes now you talk about that you talk about that a lot in the book and that's very difficult for most people to forgive and especially with something like that you kind of lose a little bit of faith at first oh so how did you get that faith back if you ever got it back and let's talk about forgiveness yes good question so my faith in that moment it's's interesting. When it happened, I walked back to my car.

Ted and my father left the hospital separately. I had my own car. And immediately, my grandmother always, the first scripture that came to me, I am strong in the Lord and in the power of his might. I am strong in the Lord and in the power of his might. I just kept saying it over and over and over again. And then I was like, wait a minute. No, actually, no.

I'm not strong in the Lord. Like, where is everybody? Where was anybody from my mom? You know, you definitely go there. But then I snapped right back into it. Like, no, you know what? Faith isn't about, you can't just say, I have faith when everything is going right.

Faith isn't for when everything is going right. Faith isn't for when everything is going right. Faith is for when everything is going wrong, actually. It's easy to trust God when everything's great. It's very difficult to trust the universe and the divine when things blow up. But people have been doing this since the beginning of time. They have kept their faith. And the only reason we're all sitting here today is because people kept their faith in God and planted seeds for us, right, to have freedom, to live the lives that we want to live

while they weren't living in freedom. So if they can do it and unfairness can come to them and trauma can come to them over and over, physical, emotional emotional spiritual trauma then i'm gonna have to kind of tap into that energy of other people who've also gone through this and make and i had just had to make a decision to stay in faith even though i didn't know even though i didn't feel like being in faith. I just made a decision. I just came home and I said, okay, God, I don't understand any of this.

I don't know what to do with this. I don't know who to call. I don't know what book to pick up. And then it was, you know my scripture. You know what I say. And the birds are going to wake up tomorrow, and the sun is going to rise tomorrow, and the sun's going to set tomorrow. So this is a part of life.

Death is a part of life. How a part of life how we die we don't know and then you know and then in the book i write td jakes it's a true story i literally walked up in my room and i fell to my knees like god this is not happening and the phone rang and it's a no callercaller ID. And I'm thinking, oh, hold on. I didn't know who it was. I didn't know if it was a detective or somebody. And he said, is this Nicole? And I said, yes. He said, this is Bishop T.D. Jiggs.

I said, oh, my God. Well, I just fell to my knees. He goes, no. He goes, are you holding up? I go, I just fell down to my knees. He goes, well, then good. We're going to pray. That's right.

And he did his thing and then he said tell me why you're angry what you're angry about well obviously what i'm angry about i'm angry that someone did this i'm angry about this i'm disappointed i'm the and he said okay now are we gonna give this moment of five minutes are we we going to focus on your mom's 81 years of her life and what she gave and what she did? Or are we going to give this fool five minutes? Where are you going to go? Because if you don't turn your mind quickly,

this is going to be a disaster. And I said, I want to focus on the 81 years. And then the forgiveness part was the hardest because, you know, forgiveness is a hard word and it's a tricky word. And I think a lot of people say, I could never forgive that because I've said that too, which means I could never condone that. But forgiveness isn't condonement. It's never, ever, ever condoning a bad behavior ever. I forgave so that I could have peace in my heart. I forgave for myself. I was like, okay, I give up the anger and the frustration

and the sadness and the disappointment. I give it up. I give it back to God because these burdens that he keeps saying, you know, give me your burdens. I go, okay, well, here are mine because I'm pissed off and I'm disappointed. And I'm so just take all of this. And every day I had to do that. But I, I definitely made sure I didn't care about this person. I don't care about his name. I didn't care about his past. I didn't care about it. I didn't care. I was like, I'm not giving him five by any space in my brain or my heart because I don't have a bitter heart.

I never had a bitter heart. But if you don't forgive, you will have a bitter heart. And again, to anyone who's listening, it is not about even reconciliation. I've forgiven people in my past, like friends who have hurt me. I never reconciled with them. I just forgave them.

That was it. It was like, I just don't't i don't even want to have i don't want to carry any weight in my body or carry the poison of unforgiveness because it's not gonna bring my mom back that's right it's not gonna bring jackie back i don't think forgiveness is linear either though yeah oh it's not yeah Oh, no. Oh, no. Forgiveness is like all up, down, around. Oh, no. It's not like, oh, I forgive and it goes away. Yeah.

It's like I said it to somebody recently. If you have like a pure white washcloth and it's dipped in tar, right? And you got to go back with that washcloth and try to clean it off. It takes a long time. That's forgiveness. Forgiveness is an everyday thing. I mean, sometimes I just universally, I'm like, I forgive everyone and everything. Before I go to sleep, I forgive everyone and everything. And if I've done anything to hurt anybody, I ask that I am forgiven for everything that I have done consciously or unconsciously.

So what if you, in your mind, you'd be like, I forgive him. Then you'd be like, fuck, but fuck him. Yeah.'d be like, but fuck him. Yeah. I feel like God knows your heart. Oh, 100%. God knows you're doing your best. 100%. I was like, I'm not trying to create any more karma at all.

So my whole thing is like, I want justice to be served. That was my whole thing. I'm not trying to get back at anybody, or I want this to happen to somebody's family. I'm not even about that. I'm not. I don back at anybody, or I want this to happen to somebody's family. I'm not even about that. I'm not. I don't. Justice be served.

That's the peace that I'll have for me if I get that. But forgiveness is not linear. You're right. Forgiveness is. And it's hard. Sometimes it's easier than other times. But it is throughout Scripture and most scriptures throughout history because of this reason. And it's for us.

It's not for the other person. And I think that's why forgiveness is talked about in all the good books so much. Because you could be really bitter or, you know, my friend's mom was a survivor of the Holocaust. And she said to her, the one thing you owe me. And she was a child when she was in the Holocaust, like four or five. And she said, you owe me a life. That's what you owe me. A life.

You owe me a life. That's it. But you got to give me a life because I survived so that you could be here. And that always stuck with me. That, you know, my grandmother was like that. My grandmother was like i we were born into you know slavery all of us like this you owe us a life yeah shit go do something you know what i thought about in the book too because you talk about how

you know the the person who you know took your mother's life was somebody that your mother would would have helped so it made me wonder i wonder what what Miss Jackie would have wanted for this young man in a situation like this. Yeah, I think Miss Jackie definitely would for sure want justice and for sure want to make sure that that anybody like this. Right. Anybody, male, female, black, white, anybody with any kind of energy that could be reckless or negative or whatever, just please don't be in society because she would never want this to happen to anybody else. That's right. That was the whole, my whole thing was I just don't want, I just want justice to be served so that this doesn't happen to, if I can prevent this to happen, for happening to somebody else by this person, then that's how I honor my mom. That's it absolutely and there was nothing else nothing about him it's nothing i don't have i don't want to have that i

don't want to hate and that was my first prayer when i got down on my knees the first thing i said was god do not let me hate this person because i can i'm already there i'm there and i don't wanna i don't wanna hate anyone and that was And I don't want to hate anyone. And that was not Jackie. She didn't hate anyone. She was in the inner city all the time. I'd be in the back of the car like, why are we going to Watts again? She said, because they need us.

She was around South Central all the time. And she loved doing that anywhere in anywhere in the world but especially Los Angeles like we are going to share your blessings you should be grateful for your blessings live out your blessings enjoy your blessings but a lot of people miss the second part which is then also serve and share your blessings with other people so then it all goes around so that you're not hoarding, oh, this is mine and I earned this and you go do your own thing. My mom was like, people had to open doors for me.

People open doors for your father. People open doors all the time. So she believed in a bridge and she believed we're all going to cross this bridge and then when we get to the other side, we need to make sure that other people can cross. That's right. Not a phrase. It is what it is. Break that down.

Oh, Clarence. So one of his isms was, it is what it is. Now, what are you going to do about it? And that was Clarence's ways of acceptance. So his whole thing was, look, Nicole, I'm not trying to be hard. It's not crass. It's not saying, oh, it is what it is. Oh, screw you.

He was saying, you have to at least own it and don't pretend this shit didn't happen. It is what it is. So whether it's I lost my job, my wife ran out on me, I got in this car accident, whatever it is. It is what it is. And then you own it. And then you can make a better decision once you take accountability. It is what it is. Now, what am I going to do about it?

So for him, for example, he had Sussex Records. He was super successful. He started then putting his hands in everything. And he was stretched so thinly. Bill Withers hated going to the radio station. He started then putting his hands in everything and he was stretched so thinly. Bill Withers hated going to the radio station. He owned a radio station. He owned, he got into the oil business. He got into publishing. He got into all these things. It was too much for him. And he admitted, and I was a little arrogant. So everything crashed. Bill left. He was like, I don't want to be a part of this. I'm leaving Sussex. I'm going here. This didn't happen. All of a sudden Sussex folded, radio station folded, everything. He's in full

debt. And he said, I had to look at myself and say, it is what it is. So I screwed up on this, this, this, and this. I'm in debt. I owe the government this. The IRS is in my office. And then he said, and I looked at myself in the mirror and I said, now what am I going to do about it? And then he slowly but surely started picking, putting the pieces together. Jackie came in and he was too, he was a little proud of, you know, asking his friends for help. But my mom wasn't too proud. So she would go drive around with me in the back seat sometimes, going to his friends, saying, Clarence does everything for everybody.

Where is somebody for Clarence? He's had a bad break. He's been pulling you all up this whole time. And Jerry Moss, who just passed away, founder of A&M Records, he was the M in A&M Records, he and Herb Albert, God bless them, and Joe Smith, different times, but they wrote, records he was the m and a and m records he and herb albert god bless him and joe smith different times but they wrote they gave my parents seed money to start over and that's what they did and then taboo records started and then and then the first band was the sos band and

it was take your time do it right and that was our comeback song in the avon house and you know i mean my mom played it every day she was like this is what i mean you know if you if you own what it is and you take accountability you try at least have the intention to start over look what happens now we got the number one song here and then jimmy and terry followed that then la and face followed that and then it was bobby brown and i'll be sure all these people whitney houston everything followed that but if my dad had not owned it and owned his mistakes i mean he said to me i said what happened with the radio station you had the only black radio station on the west coast he goes i was just arrogant i didn't want

to listen to anybody in radio who knew better than i did he said i just thought i'm clarence but i i'm i'm you know i'm wealthy and successful i'm living in beverly hills he goes and then boom it all just wow crash you know and so he always reminded me of you know i'd call him if i had issues in the Bahamas and the embassy he was like Nicole Nicole you cannot make a great decision which you need to do right now if you do not accept what it is right now so you need to just say okay this this doesn't feel right these people are doing this this is this then go into what are you gonna do about it and make a decision explain to the people what does choosing to swim me not going down oh about it and make a decision. Explain to the people what is choosing to swim me, not going down

with shit. Oh, not going down with it. That's dull, Jackie. So my mom was big on she loved the idea of, she's like, look, life is going to, she was like, you know, she's such a philosopher. She's like, life, it's like being in an ocean.

Some days are going to be really calm. Some days are going to be rough seas. You never know what you're going to get. We think we do, we don't. And her whole point is whatever wave comes at you, whatever storm comes, you must make a choice. You have to choose to swim. Just don't go down with the ship. It happens to everybody. You got to choose to just swim. It's dark. It's cold.

You don't know how you're going to get there. She goes, and maybe you don't make it, but at least choose to try to swim. Don't go down with the ship, which is why that was the mantra in my head of every time I wanted to go down with the ship after this, I wanted to go down a lot. And I was going down a lot. And I would hear my mom like, you know, take a nap, take a nap and

rest. But you got to get out there and you have to swim for me, you know, swim for me, swim so that people remember me. Right. Like my dad would say, you know, write about Jackie. I go, I don't know what to write. goes write about jackie write about our a lot write about this like it should be he believed in legacy you know that's why he did everything what he did was he was trying to create legacy whether it was hank aaron or you know bill withers or anybody like we're this is legacy to be passed on to the next generations like we all survive and thrive on other people's legacy it's interesting because you said you never saw your mom after the text but in the book you speak about seeing her yes oh what was that like crazy and beautiful and i'm telling you it was

and it was on christmas eve and it was early morning and I had gotten up and I was like oh god oh my god and I thought this is how are we going to do Christmas how are we going to do Christmas and I walked downstairs and I was I found some ornaments that she had and I was putting them on the tree and everything and then I swear to you i felt this energy at which made me turn around i go mom and it was like she was standing right there and then and then it was she was gone but she was with me and i felt her and i felt her in the room and then i was and then all of a sudden it was probably the first time i really smiled in a couple weeks like i felt a smile i felt myself smile and then i knew for sure because she'd always say the spirit is everlasting she always told me that energy is real and the spirit is everlasting that's right and

i knew in that moment i said oh mommy okay you're here and you are everlasting. Okay, okay. And I remember looking at a spider that I was, I would have usually killed this spider. It was a big ass spider. But my mom always would take the paper, get the tissue, like talk to the insect. And that was, it was Christmas Eve. I go, and in honor of you, I'm not going to kill this spider.

But I felt her and I knew she was there and it was perfect that it was Christmas Eve. And we had the best dinner that night with Clarence. We poured him his wine. We played him his music because you had to have Duke on. You had Duke Ellington, Frank Sinatra, Count Basie, Quincy Jones. And he remembered. He's like, I used to go to Birdland and I was here with Jackie

and then that's when we realized how the healing was going to start for Clarence was oh we're going to play all this music from the 60s the 70s the 80s but mostly the 60s when he met my mom when he was in New York when he was running and he was learning from Joe and he was just becoming Clarence. It was all that music because as we all know with music, it just reignites every memory. I mean, I could listen to a song from the 80s. I could tell you what I was wearing, what perfume I was wearing, who I had a crush on in high school, what car I was in. I went to this football game when this song was playing.

I danced to this at the prom. That that's what music does yeah so i used music that was my tool to play it for clarence every single day so breakfast we played frank sinatra dinner we were duke ellington you know then it was count bassy and quincy jones and it was just it music transformed him that's right was this book like a closure for you to get your feelings out, to get everything out? Yeah, it was. It was a lot of crying and a lot of joy at the same time because I really did feel, okay, I do believe that things are in divine.

I always pray for divine order, always. And I was like, I don't know things are in divine. I always pray for divine order, always. And I was like, I don't know how this is divine. Whatever it is. So this is what I'm doing. If this is how I'm honoring Jackie in a book first, and then I wanted to become more like her. So I started doing the things that she did. You know, I started reaching out to the community more.

I didn't just, you know, write a check. I was like, let me come down and see these kids today. Let me go and deliver these books myself. Let me go to this museum and see this exhibition, what Jackie would have wanted. And then she started to live within me in a different way, you know? And so, and now kind of with my dad, it's the same thing. I get now what he was doing for Ali and everybody. It was like, we got to put these people on maps that nobody forgets.

We have to create our own legacy like everybody else does. When you talk about legacy and the way you speak of the house you grew up in, I can't remember what the encounter was. Was the encounter in your house? Yes. Their house. It was in their house. Oh, I'm't remember what the encounter was. Was the encounter in your house? Yes. Or was it in... Their house. Oh, it was in their house. Yeah.

Oh, my house. Oh, I'm sorry. My mom? Yeah, my house. Okay, so with the house you grew up in, how do you get rid of that? Do you keep it?

Oh, that's a good question. I feel like you can't sell it. I know. I'm like, you can't sell this house. I know. It's so funny. In the beginning, everyone's like,

you got to get rid of that house. I was like, hold on. Let me just... Hold on. And I went through a lot of things with my dad. And of course, my dad was like, get this to this museum, get this to this Smithsonian, get this to the African-American Museum. I mean, he was, you know, Clarence was like, we didn't we didn't collect all this. You know, he said to me, he goes, see, see like i told you you don't take shit with you look at all this she's gone everything's here i'm gonna be gone everything's here so we went through his wishes went through my mom's wishes thank god they wrote everything down they were ordered like that and then i was like okay and then he so funny you say that and then he looked

at me and goes i go dad so there's some people who want to buy the house. He goes, don't sell this house. At least not while I'm alive. Don't sell this house. It goes, this is my house. He ain't taking my house. I ain't letting nobody take my house. I paid for this house.

This is my house. I've been in Beverly Hills for over 50 years in the same house. And what has come through this house. And then now when I look at it, I'm like, every time I go there to talk about selling it, I'm like, every time I go there to talk about selling, I'm like, I don't think so. I don't think so.

I might use it as something else. Like it's still a mecca of greatness. And I'm telling you, I'm not just saying this. I'm not being delusional. When I tell you the energy there is so positive, it is the most powerful it's ever been. It's almost like she was struck by lightning and that was it. And now the energy there, the hummingbirds are everywhere. The energy, the vibration is high.

And when I look at it and I look at every specific piece of art, this black artist and Jacob Lawrence, when Jacob was just starting, and my parents are like, and Ernie Barnes, everybody. But my parents were like, we gotta support these black artists. And we gotta, you know, and finding letters of like James Baldwin and all these things, it's just,

I don't know what I'm gonna do with that. It's so funny that you said that. Maybe that was my dad giving you a sign that I'm not gonna sell it. I know, I know. Yeah. I know. They gotta get the book. We can't give them too much.

I do got a couple more questions, though. Did you ever feel imposter syndrome in any way because you were Clarence and Jackie's daughter? Like you were getting opportunities because of them and not you? No. Actually, I didn't. Only because this goes back to being Jackie, my mom made sure that I worked jobs since I was 13. Like 10, I was answering phones all the time. But I was 13, 14.

Back then, you had to sign the paper to allow your child to work at 14, under California law, whatever. I was a hostess. I was a waitress. I sold shoes. I worked at Bullock's. I was terrible at selling shoes because I couldn't put the boots back in the box properly. It's a very hard job.

It's really, it's particular. But my mom's point was, you need to learn how to work on your own and not in a fancy situation. So, yes, you will have internships later in life, but you're going to work. And you're going to meet people that you would have internships later in life but you're gonna work and you're gonna meet people that you will you would have never met otherwise and you're gonna understand how paycheck to paycheck you don't have to you yeah you're collecting and you get to put it in a savings account they don't this and i need you to see this and she helped me with not having imposter syndrome also because she would say to me and Alex,

you do you. Your spirit came to do whatever it's here to do. My spirit, my soul is here to do what it's supposed to do. If you want to be a teacher, great. If you want to be a psychologist, great. If you want to be a journalist, which I wanted to do, great. I'll help you want to be a psychologist great if you want to be a journalist which i wanted to do great i'll i'll help you go to school but she never felt she they never said you must do what we did and you must stand in our shoes they were really great at please go create your own life please like we we gave you life so we don't know what your life is. And sometimes doors would open and then sometimes they wouldn't, which was great.

Also, because then I would, you know, at 18, 19, I'm like, oh, yeah, I'll get this job for sure. And then I didn't. And I'm thinking, well, wait a minute. Wait a minute. Well, I'm Clarence Avon's daughter. I'm Jackie Avon's daughter. And then my mom said, yeah, no, no, Nicole. People get to say no.

I mean, I've always told this story. I got fired from a job once and I said, can you believe they fired me? Can you believe they fired me? She said, did they fire you? Did you fire yourself? Did you fire yourself? Because she knew. She goes, you would call me all the time on the big cell phones, you know, the ones that were this big. She said, you

would call me like, ah, 10 minutes late to work. I hate this job. My boss is so mean. She goes, and then you were the first one out. You were the last one to get there so you fired yourself and you know so she she helped me with finding my own passion and reminded me and alex that you guys can do really whatever you want to do you do not have any pressure from us uh to feel it, to feel that you have to fill our shoes. Because my dad's like, my shoes are filled. My feet are in them.

He was like, what shoes? He goes, and get in your own shade because don't follow my shadow. He's like, go make your own shadow. Stop standing behind me. What do you think the greatest lesson is you learned from your mother? The ultimate one. I mean, it's a lot of them. Oh, so many.

It's really simple jackie avon really believed in she loved history and the importance of history and culture different cultures you know learning about different cultures she hated cultural appropriation she was like it's cultural appreciation what is happening with people you know what i mean like she loved that but she gave me this sense of a zest for life. She loved being alive. She believed in hope. She believed in compassion and she, and she lived a compassionate life. She lived a life of service and she lived a life of giving and kindness. And the greatest lesson I got from her was use your freedom wisely use your thoughts wisely use your words wisely you can take you could we're the only creatures on earth that we can release our past right we don't have to carry it if we don't want to you

could really try to release it manage it something But we're the only creatures on the earth that actually have an imagination that allows us to create the future that we want. That was her greatest lesson. Do not forget that the power within you is the same power that creates worlds and stars. And you know what I mean? You're connected to the same thing that's right so that's what

she gave me this understanding of life and understanding of of living a worthy life that you know live a significant life is that what you want people to get out of this book by reading this book the main thing yeah it's i want people, to really get that, you know, life can be hard and all of us go through trials and tribulations, but we always have a choice on how we're going to deal with those trials and tribulations. And my hope that when people read the book, cause it doesn't necessarily have to be about grief, you know, the title is Think You'll Be Happy, so it is a positive book, but I hope they're inspired and motivated and encouraged to live the best life that they can and understand while they're doing that,

that they are significant and important and valuable, regardless of what their title is. You could still have a meaningful life and that life is really worth living. I just got three more questions. What does Climax North Carolina mean to you? Because that is the birthplace of the parents. Yes, and you know what that means to me?

That if you can come out of Climax, you could do anything. That's right. I mean, if you come out of Climax North Carolina, you can do anything in the world. If your mind is open and you're prepared, you have no idea what's going to happen, but you can do anything.

That's right. Yeah. Who in this industry do you think is close to being the black godfather? Oh, that's a good one. There's a few. You know, it's interesting. Reggie Hudlin, we did the Celebration of Life for my parents just last Wednesday in LA. Reggie Hudlin was great. He got up and he said, what Clarence Avon has taught us, the question that we should ask ourselves is,

what is your assignment? Clarence Avon understood his assignment. And I think it's anybody who understands their assignment and anybody who opens doors for people or makes connections for people and who is excited to see the magic that happens as opposed to what am I going to get out of this? That's the next Clarence Avon. Yeah. Oh, I'm sorry.

Yeah, no, go ahead. Is there somebody in front of the camera, behind the scenes? There's two that come to my mind. Who comes to your mind? Tyler Perry. Absolutely. I was just going to say Tyler. I'm going to see him on Thursday.

I was going to say Tyler is probably the closest to my dad in his actions. Yes. Because Tyler, and look at his life. Yeah. I mean mean come on if somebody had every right to quit tyler perry had every single right to quit life he had right we would all understand oh i get why he quit i get why he just threw in the towel tyler not only became one of the most successful black man in america one of them. Not just that. He is so focused and so on purpose about turning around and going into every community and was like,

if you have the will, I have the way, come on. That's right. I'm going to bring you, and I'm going to teach you. And he's disciplined, Tyler. And he has disciples around him, right? And he's teaching always. But the thing I love about Tyler Perry is that he wants to see people succeed. He knows the law, that there's more than enough for everybody,

and that no one can take from Tyler Perry or take from you or take from you or you or you. Anything that's meant for you you no one can take it anyway so tyler i think embodies the most of clarence avon because he doesn't expect anything in return he does it with this this love you know oprah's the same way like they put it out there and then it's like grab you know, it's for grabs. But Tyler for sure. It would be Tyler, Jay-Z, and probably Oprah for me. Yeah. Yeah.

They're doing it. Yeah. And by the way, look at all their, look where they all come from. That's right. The best examples of, it doesn't, proof. It doesn't matter where you start. It matters where you finish. That's right. It doesn't matter. you start. It matters where you finish. It doesn't matter.

And it is a journey. And all journeys are hard, by the way. You've had a hard time. I don't know anyone on earth who hasn't had a bump in the road or a hard journey. Some are harder than others. I know that.

But I think having role models like that, and I'm working with Tyler now, we're working on a film together called The 6888. It's going to be out next year. It wasn't supposed to be a plug, but I'm going to plug it. And I think Kerry Washington, she might have talked about it. She was here, and it's great, but Tyler and I want to keep legacy going,

and this is a great American story that just happens to be about an all-female, all-black battalion in the Army and what they did and how they helped us win World War II. I was like, well, this is an important story. And I called Tyler. I was like, you should do it because Tyler gets it. That's right.

Tyler understands the responsibility that we have. It's not about just telling stories and being rich and a fancy car and a big house. Tyler understands on a very deep, soulful level that these are ripple effects. When I'm gone, when all of us in this room are gone, that whatever we put out there, it's going to live. That's right. Like this book is going to live. Absolutely.

My last question. They always say don't cry because it's over smile because it happened what have you what have you done more of oh i love that i laughed okay i try to laugh a lot i watch a lot of comedy the comedian saved me i was watching chapelle for the last 20 months i've never watched so many netflix comedy specials seb Sebastian, Chappelle, Chris Rock, everybody, the laughter really is a healing balm. It really does shift your energy. My heart would break open in different ways and I would go to sleep every night

during my trauma and my stress. I would watch comedy before I went to sleep. I needed to laugh before I laid my head down on the pillow. Wow. Well, the book, pick it up. Think You'll Be Happy. Moving Through Grief with Grace and Gratitude. That's right. Thank you so much for joining us and sharing your story. I appreciate it so much.

I'm so happy to be here. Thank you. And it's The Breakfast Club. Good morning. Wake that ass up in the morning. The Breakfast Club.