The Breakfast Club - INTERVIEW: Omar Epps, Yelena Popovic & Reginald Akkeem Berry Sr. Discuss Authentic Storytelling Behind New Film 'Moses The Black’ + More

Episode Date: February 2, 2026

Today on The Breakfast Club, Omar Epps, Yelena Popovic & Reginald Akkeem Berry Sr. Discuss Authentic Storytelling Behind New Film 'Moses The Black’. Listen For More!YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@BreakfastClubPower1051FMSee omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

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for wherever you get your favorite shows. Yes, it's the world's most dangerous morning show, The Breakfast Club. Shalamey the God, Jess Hilarious. DJ Envi is out, but Lauren La Rosa is here, and we got some special guests. man, they are promoting the new movie, Moses the Black. We got Akeem Barry Sr., Yelina Popovich, and of course, the legendary Omar Epps.

Good morning to all. Good morning. How y'all feeling, first and foremost? Good. Good. Very good. Nice. Thank you for having us. Happy to have y'all, man.

Moses to Black. Now, I know Moses was a real person. I did a little research. He was a fourth century saint. Yeah. Right? Whose journey went from, like, violence to deep spiritual transformation. Who was he?

he was I think he was like the real Robin Hood because even when he was on his let's say path of darkness he was truly taking care of his community you know giving to the poor things of that nature and he came to an impasse in his life where he realized he had to become the change

he was seeking which is parallel to the character that I played Malik he finds himself at a similar place so the film explores those type of themes obviously in a contemporary setting. How do you translate that, like, real-life arc into a modern crime drama? Well, that's Yelena, who wrote the film beautifully.

But you should speak to that. Is I elaborate on that? Yeah, well, can I just say first was really drew me. I really fell in love with the saint because of his incredible courage and humility. I mean, this is the man who was all the way on one side. He was a notorious gang leader that was known for his brutal violence. People were feared of him.

And basically, he not only abandons at the moment when you heed the light within, not only that he abandons the ways, but he goes on this journey of a true freedom that achieves that the fruits that this true freedom wore through a lot of repentance, eschatic work, was this basically ability to face martyrdom with joy.

And that to me was like, this was an incredible man. That heart must have been amazing even before his conversion, to have that kind of courage to say, I lived by the sword, now I'm going to die by the sword. And for me, this is the way I want to go

and I want to glorify my Lord and Savior in that way. So this is something that really kind of grabbed me. So I thought about this for a long time, and I was trying to put a story together in a fourth century. But for some reason, whether you call it Riders Block or whatever, something was not quite there. I felt like he wouldn't do justice to the same until I had epiphany. I was in an island of Evia, and I saw literally Chicago, Grandmard.

I saw scenes of the movie in front of my eyes. and I said to myself and I said to myself she said no she was sober I was sober but maybe you're not sober when you're in the prayer maybe maybe that's meditation

you know so what happens was like you know I said okay now I have a movie but then I was like oh great but what do I know about Chicago and the gang life and that's where I knew that if I wanted to do the justice

to this incredible saint I had to go to Chicago and by the providence of God I believe I met this incredible gentleman Reginald al-Keem Barry whom I went to respectfully to ask a blessing if I can make a movie like this if this movie would help his community and I can have him give you a little bit of a story of how that happened I mean mr. Barry's without him this wouldn't have Well, the facts of the matter is a great friend of man, Alex Pseos, who was the head of CenterSpace. She obviously had got in contact with him, and he told her if she really wants the real deal, you know, to contact me. And to be real with you, I was just going to have lunch just to be cordial and blow this white lady off.

Get her out of here. Yeah, yeah, right. And so, again, during our lunch, you know, she had some real interesting things to say. And when she mentioned that she wanted to get the essence of Chicago and the street life, you know, I thought that was a great opportunity. Also, for me, to speak about the street life, you know. It's not just as easy as people put it out there as guys just wake up one morning.

You want to be a gang member. You want to sell drills. You want to get killed. That's not, unfortunately. You know, speaking from a personal perspective, you know, I am a preacher's son. And so I was raised in the Baptist Church, you know, to say that you don't need nothing material here, you know what I'm saying? You're going to be in poverty until you're getting heaven then.

You're going to have a street of gold. I'm like, well, listen, my next-door neighbor getting money. You know what I'm saying? He's wearing brand new shoes. I got holes in the bottom of mind, you know, and so he's a fight of flight. You did what I'm saying? So over the years, I rose to the ranks of the way. the folk on the hustlers and became the chief myself.

And during that time right there, again, we was, what they called, Negro Rich, you know, but when they come kick that dough in, you know what I'm saying, all that money went to the lawyer, you understand, I mean, I got 18 years in the penitentiary. And so while I was ruminating in the state's only supermax called Thames, I had an epiphany, you know, how I need to change my life, because a whole lot of people, now that I've risen to the top ancheon of this organization, perhaps I can introduce change and bring it back to where the founders had

when they was giving breakfast and daycare and that sort of thing, you know? And so when I was emancipated in 2006, I started the organization called Saving Our Sons. And do those works there, you know what I'm saying? Me and Alex became like brothers from another mother. And, you know, have met Elena, you know, we put some things down on paper and the rest is history.

What was the turning point in the conversation with you, Elena? Like, you know, you go in thinking, I'm going to blow this woman off, but as you're having a conversation with her, like what was that one thing that made you just pivot a little bit? When she said she wanted to catch the real essence of the streets and mention, you know, paying homage to a great brother who I love, Saeed, you know. the police put all types of madness on his name.

When she talked about showing paying homage to him, that was the thing that flipped me over. And for you, Elena, when you talk about the spiritual themes of Moses the Black, but then Chicago being Chicago, how did you balance those elements so the film felt authentic to both were? Well, I think I went after the truth, the hardcore truth of the things. The story which, I mean, the story of St. Moses, the Black, is pretty straightforward.

And I didn't deviate from, I feel that I showed what I wanted to show in that side. But it was actually, that's a good question because there was the hardest one to balance. Because at the end, what I decided, if I was going to bring him in the modern day, then the repentance and redemption of St. Moses had to become the repentance and redemption of our main character. So then I had to tell a story, focus more on the story in the modern day. So through the eyes of our main character, people hopefully can identify with things and go through that transformation themselves. And this is really made for those that suffer the most, people that are in the bondage,

they don't believe they can get out, they don't believe that there is a second chance for them, they don't believe they can be forgiven. And this is a movie for those. And this is why I did it. I think a lot of what I saw in the movie, too. We were talking about this earlier was the message that there's already power in you, but you might not recognize it at a point and that we all need something to bring us up out of that. And for a lot of us, especially black community-wise,

it is religion that we turn to that helps us kind of like figure that out. I'm glad you said that because, you know, whether you're religious or not, when we use these words like faith and when we use words like redemption, people always attribute them to religion or spirituality. But there's a different angle as well. well, even if you're a science-based thinker, you've got to have faith in the unknown. All of your things are hypotheses because you weren't here a million years ago to say this, carbon, this, that, and the other. And when we use words like redemption, you know, if you wanted

to lose weight, you started working out on a diet and then you kind of went off, you know, you put back on some pounds when you're on your road back, like, let me get back on my dean, that's a form of redemption. You're redeeming yourself. If you did somebody wrong, when you come and you humble, you apologize, yo, my bad. That's a form of redemption.

So I'm only saying that to say it's not just from a faith-based angle, just from a human experience angle. What perspective are you looking at it for. In this movie, you guys use a lot of the things from today, like you mentioned, like there's a lot of like going live on social media and the chat and all that stuff, right?

Omar, you've had the, like, the career path where we've seen you in so many different versions of like what the streets look like. Talk about that transition just as actor, but also what you're teaching through your art when you say yes to these type of films. Yeah. It's a reflection of the now, right? And from my elder, if you will, perspective.

OG perspective. Okay, OG perspective. You know, what we depicted in the movie is like, the insanity of, you know, how social media can be, how people take something that's virtual and bring it into the, they have real feelings about it and they take real actions based on things that are just, you know what I mean, hyperbole. Like, so it's, it's just, I guess it's more pervasive than when we were coming up, it was like you went, you went high school, somebody say something at first period, it kind of

get around by lunch, everybody like, ooh, and then they gather around, yo, y'all gonna fight after school? Like, you know what I mean? But that would travel kind of slower. You know, now with it's so instant with social media

that there's not time to like process and like critically think before you do something, you know. So when people, you know, I think it's a reflection of the now to have that in the film and I think it's the elements of the film that component is important.

Everybody would have known Bishop shot shot, immediately and social media was around. Exactly. Immediately. That's funny. In the movie,

go ahead. This is a question for all three of you. Do you think that Malik was actually at first a bad guy, like, or just doing what he had to do? You know what I mean? Like, because it's different ways to look at it.

You can come at it from two different perspectives, you know what I mean? Absolutely. Again, from a personal perspective, Malik has similarities of my life. You know, and again, you know, situations push you into situations. Yeah.

Like I said, I come from household and nine kids, you dig. And so public aid, my father used to hide up under the porch. When the public aid, people come ring your bell and sit on the couch and they test your teeth and lift your shirt up, make sure you get no whips on you and that sort of thing. And that was like traumatizing. You know, when I came to teenage, I'm like, well, I'm going to help my mom. You know, you had movies like the Mac. Yeah, it moves like super fly.

You sell this kilo right here. You can get your family out of the hood. You know, and that impressed me. You know what I'm saying? I'm like, well, this is the only game that left me to play. Right. In the 70s, you're either going to be an entertainer or you're going to be an athlete or drug dealer.

One of the three. The key thing, he just said, in the 70. Yeah, in the 70s. That's the era I grew up in. And so again, you know, by the time I became a chief in the 90s, you know, I was in the penitentiary. You did what I'm saying? And Mr. Hoover came along with a message of

century 21 saying there wasn't going to be no more gang banging on each other. It didn't want to say we're going to be all one family. And what the government did, they threw them in a super maximum prison to silence them. And I became an ambassador for that message. And it wasn't long before I found myself in a super maximum prison to silence me. So I'll speak to that for a second because people would like to say, you know, Larry Hoover is just some gangster criminal who just needs to be locked away. But, you know, people that actually know him in his stories, they feel like he's a

political prisoner? Absolutely. Absolutely. I mean, again, the man is almost 80-something. You know what I'm saying? But every time come up for parole, they show a picture of them being 26. And, you know, it's a fear factor.

Politics move on fear. You know what I'm saying? Trump doing the same thing right now. Fear. You know what I'm saying? If Mr. Hoover was home right now, a whole lot of things were cease and desist. Because people still give reverence to his name and his word.

And so, again, you have Jeff Ford, same way, political prisoners. You know, this guy going to free the Bitcoin people, you know what I'm saying, who embezzled hundreds of millions of dollars. He let them out of prison. But somebody, you understand me, who actually hadn't hurt nobody in the almost 30 years. He still holding them hostage. How difficult is that, though, right?

Because when you're in the streets, you got, well, when you're in the streets, you got your soldiers, you know what I mean? People that look up to you to lead them in the street life, right? And then when you're throwing in prison and now you are, you're preaching the total opposite of that the pressures of it is like, do we follow you still? But this is what we was doing out here. Like, how are you going, you know what I mean?

What are the pressures like being in, and share your experience, even when you were incarcerated? Like, was that any type of pressure being in there leading the total opposite of what you was thrown in there for? To be honest, which I had several attempts on my life. You see the sky right across my throat. Yes, sir. You know, because, again, I went with the homosexuality.

He did you go raping young brothers. I went with that move. And so again, an attempt was made of my life because you had older guys who had been there and they're going to be there and they say, well, listen, these are they wise and et cetera. And so again, I did go through a bit of trepidation about, you know what I'm saying,

because I put my guns down with the opposition put their guns down. So I took counsel with my father and he told me, you know, it don't take no courage to blend into the crowd. It takes courage to stand out from the crowd. And so I took that challenge. You know what I met with all the rest

to cheese in my community and let them know, listen, I'm going on this side of the street, and I pray you will let me do this peacefully. Because again, you know, like I say, redemption, and I can always go back that way as well, if my life is threatened, you know. But fortunately, God put a cover over me, and again, you know,

I was able to bless my community with thousands of jobs over the last 19 years that I've been involved with, anti-violence. And you feel that in the movie, though. Like the movie, to me, I don't know if this is what you guys are you intended, but it's almost like a, like, the messaging is like an act of, like, activism of trying to wake people up on the streets right now

and let them know to join exactly what you're talking about. And a lot of times those type of things are not accepted when we are putting our people together saying, look, y'all got these soldiers, but like if y'all did this instead of this, right? So what has that pushback been like? Because I know y'all going into theaters and, like, what's that? Let's talk about it. Let's talk about that.

Let's talk about that one. I'm hearing there's a, you got some disturbing news about this movie? Yeah, listen, let me tell you something. The reality of the fact is, you know, the powers that be are trying to suppress this movie as we speak. You know, you had, you know, several studios, so I say theaters who actually pooled the movie two days before it's opening date.

You know, I have family and friends in various states who contacted me and said, man, listen, we can't find the movie. You know, it was there two weeks ago, but now it was, you know, out of sight. They pulled. They pulled it. Two days before the release.

Absolutely. Unheard of. Absolutely. And a lot of unheard of, and especially at inner cities where people are hurting and they want to see this film. We made the movie for,

we made the movie for the community, and they're actively and aggressively trying to keep the film from the community. And at the end of the day, you know the God don't stop working evil all I hear about

is the devil's a lie the devil's this the death what about the other side what about the real side the true side and that's why we hear unapologetically standing

for the power to light you understand what I'm saying and it is crazy it's very it's disgusting but it's a sign of these times of now well the truth of the matter is Cook County has the biggest

jail system in the country as far as prison, you know, that could county, where you hold you before you actually go to prison. And you have people who made a living of building these buildings. You understand me, to try to, I guess, incarcerate the whole mass of a generation. You know, again, I sat there from 1988 to 2006. You know what I'm saying? And it's not, I didn't change my mind.

I had changed my mind, but the judge didn't change my mind. But the judge didn't change my time. You know what I'm saying? I still had to sit there languishing and trying to send messages out, you know what I'm saying, through legal mail. You know what I'm saying? Listen, y'all put them guns down, et cetera, et cetera. And the truth of the matter is, again, you know, my family has been in that community for over 60 years. And so we have roots, you know, so when we was able to come out with this message, you know, it resonated.

It resonated. And I can say, you know what I'm saying, that the people are clamoring for this movie to be. put back in the studio. What reasoning did they give? Is it about race? Is it about the religious imagery? Listen to this. This is you're going to laugh now. The reason is

it wasn't pre-sold enough. Who pre-sells, you know, like that's moral. It's pre-sold enough. And even people that bought up theaters were refunded. What? Damn.

What? People bought out whole theaters to see the film and they refunded them. That doesn't even make sense. No, it doesn't. Specifically in Chicago? In Chicago? Across the country. Okay. And especially in Chicago, South, tell them above. Melrose Park, Cicero, you know, in the urban areas where these particular movies are, these theaters are, you know, because we don't have any theaters on Madison Street no more. You know, they don't have them downtown anymore, you know?

You have to go to the outer suburbs to actually see a film. And again, I guess they say they they don't want the African American community, you know what I'm saying? The flood they show like that. Damn. So money don't even make sense. I mean, box office don't even matter no more. That's crazy.

Yeah, but they cry how they care about the communities, right? I'm sorry to say that, but if you really care about the community and please let them know how authentic this film is, what does West Side Chicago brothers, what do they think about this film, people that they've seen it? Listen, I mean, people was crying, you know what I'm saying? Mothers, daughters, brothers, you know, because you can see, literally see yourself. When people from Chicago saw Madison Street, you know, they could relate to Madison Street.

When they saw Central, they can relate to Central, you know, when they saw Shine King, people start cheering, clapping their hands. And this is just a play where you go to the shoe shined it. But no one has ever brought the movie, John, John, to the inner west side. You know, you have people who profess that won't change. But again, when you have a message like this

that comes to introduce change, you know, you have powers that be like, hold it, this might stop our gravy train. You know, people might stop selling drills the way they was doing. People might stop shooting one another, and we're going to lose some sheriff jobs. I'll give you a perfect example. When I was first taken to

Tam super maximum prison, On the way there, I'm watching the surroundings. I'm seeing houses, there was dilapidated. I'm seeing a horse with a bent back. I'm saying rusty tractors. But when I left that eight years later, he had brand new houses, brand new cars, boats in the driveway. Why?

Because when the prison come, the gas station come. The bank come. The restaurant come. Because black folks are going to come visit their people. You understand me? And it built a whole. industry around this prison. And so when we shut it down,

people were out there literally with their signs, don't take our prison away. Madness. That's your question, Omar. What's the weight of playing a character who has so much darkness around him but then the weight of having I guess powers that be trying to suppress

the film and the story you're trying to tell? That's a great question. For me, I think he'd heard me say this before. It's like, we're fighting in this, uh, uh, the war of our lifetime. And my art is my weapon of choice. So for me, it, it, it comes with the territory. And, and, um, you know, it, it just fuels me more. It just lets me know I'm on the right path because when you talk about, like the, you know, I've talked about this before, the power of imagery, the power of storytelling.

what art does for us not only as a community but just as human beings it just inspires us motivates us we can it's cathartic it can be right um and so when you when you're a part of a project like this it's all meant for entertainment but entertainment is relative to your perspective right you can go key key or you can go have some conversations and and apply some things that actually help you shift something in your life for the better. And so for me, the weight of that, I'm ready for it all. This is, this is, I feel, I don't feel, I'm living in my purpose. I think when, when Yelena and I first met, I said to her, I understand why this opportunity

is before me right now. I totally understand why this is all happening right now in this moment, and I'm ready. So I'm ready. What happens? I was about to ask, Yelena, is this the first movie that you've done that has ever gotten a response like this? Because, you know, you've done films before.

It was the one before called Man of God. And that film was done in Greece. It was about a very popular saint. The reason I did that, I had a human approach to it. This was a man who was unjustly prosecuted his whole life. I mean, prosecution, if you see, see his prosecution from within the church and what he had to go through and how he dealt with it, we all might think our problems all of a sudden shrink. And again, seeing that kind of

story and seeing his humility and the love that stemmed from that was the reason I did the film. Before the film came out, they started this in Greece. It was a chaos. They started to try to stop. Talk about Greek country. That's an orthodox Christian country that you would think That wouldn't be a problem. Oh, Greek Film Center would not even give a penny. They said that we were going to be fired if even attempt to do that. And they said only one grandmother with a grandchild will see this movie and end up being the most successful film of the year or that year.

And I don't think they've ever forgiven me for that. So you're a risk-taker. So I'm like, you know, I'm not, you know, you see the thing with me, I'm not a propagandist. I like to tell the truth. Yes, I personally have faith. That's my thing. If it wasn't for my faith, I wouldn't be alive today.

So I thank God for everything first. But I don't push that on anybody else. I just like to tell the truth. So people can find courage and understand that they can live lives. Even while we are in this world, it's filled with suffering, injustice and pain. You can see that there were people that gained that. joy that it's not of this world and it's only that joy that can make you truly free

you know and this is why I make this movies and that's the only reason I don't I don't I'm not a I don't push any agendas or anybody and maybe that's what about because it's not you can't put it in the category oh it's a fate-based film so let's just laugh about it like which you know what I'm saying but it's actually it's very hardcore it's very truthful and maybe that's why that that's that that's an area where it makes people uncomfortable. You said something very important just now. You said joy can make you free.

And I always feel that way. That's why they're always trying to steal all joy from. Joy killers. Absolutely. I'm sorry to say that. The truth doesn't have an agenda. It just is. It just is, right?

Unapologetically so. And the, you know, all of the resources, that's the word, that not just our community, just impoverished communities in general need don't always come in the form of, they come in different forms. Sometimes it's clothing, sometimes it's food, sometimes it's finances. Most times it's art in whatever form. If you just study history, history I'm talking about for thousands of years, most times, because that's the thing that essentially is a free thing. You can see the person's saying. You can see them dance.

but what are they singing about? Oh, that's a story about, oh, that's kind of a, oh, and that's how they turned and found their joy. You find this smile in the darkness, right? That's what keeps us sane. And it brings you joy. You can think about putting the cardboard box on the concrete. You don't have no money to do that, but just break dancing.

Somebody got one cassette tape. You put that song on everybody singing it, you know what I mean? Like, that's joy. Absolutely. That's what art does. What happens next, Because like this is happening, right? But is this, is there a legal fight that you guys can have?

Well, I think the best thing is for people to go and see this film. And it's going to depend on the, because we still have quite a lot of theaters, even though they try to, you know, if you want to stop the movie, what do you do? You mess with the opening weekend. I mean, take any other movie out there and try to do that. That's exactly. But we managed to recover some things. And I think that if people go see the movie, they don't want you to see.

I don't know why they don't want you to see a film that will uplift you. They will tell you, you are great. You can come out of the bondage. You just say it. You can't keep you in the bondage forever. You know, it's like there's a way out. And then this is, so go support this. Well, people will make noise.

That's the type of things that people make noise about. Absolutely. Stuff is taken away, you know, for no reason. Well, it's a reason. but no reason at all basically, you know, it's a film that the youth, in my opinion, needs to see. I mean, definitely for adults, but the youth need to see it. Our young boys, you know, our young girls of the world need to see it. It's very impressionable.

And I like to discredit Yelana and Omar, you know, because, again, having had the conversation and talked about my life with Yulana, she was able to pin it on paper and convey it to Omar, and he was able to, you know, morph into that person. Because Malik was a real, real person. Saeed was a real person. You know, Mike was a real person. He did what I'm saying? These test men came in and did they think, you know.

I sent this guy go through the lamentation that I felt, you know what I'm saying, while I was languishing in the super maximum prison. You know, again, I was having a spiritual battle about, you understand, me the things my father had instilled into me versus what the world had shown. me you see what I'm saying there's a dichotomy there and so again just to see him take on that personality

and morph into it you know I got a world of respect for my man was it hard for you to embody what that Chicago accent what sound like since you sold Brooklyn New York that was a challenge

yeah my feet shout out to Denise Woods who I worked with an incredible dialect coach that was I just didn't want it to impede on anything yeah like you know you say one word and then the next word but it was very challenging because that Chicago there's an accent but then there's the south side west side north side and then all these little it was

very challenging yeah I wonder Elena why did why you think God showed you Chicago you know that's a good thing I was on an island of I was in Greece when that happened And this is a crazy story because there's so many providential moments in my life and in this story. Let me share this one. Because I was struggling with the story for a long time, and I was on an island called Evia that one of the, in a monastery invited to spend a night by this elder who wanted to ask me, because man of God did so well in Greece, and they wanted to ask me if I can make a film about this other saint. And I said, I never even thought of making a films that were saints.

I just simply read these stories and they resonated with me. So if unless I have something honest in my heart, I can't express it. Then I'm the wrong person. So he says, no, no, no, no. Just listen to me. Just sit here tonight and pray. I'm like, okay. So I sat there.

I put a blanket. It was cold. And I was a little bit silly because what am I supposed to ask? Oh, can I get a message for a film? I'm not going to pray about something like that. That's not what I usually pray about. So I sat there. Well, I pray for humility for my brothers and sisters.

I don't know. I pray for God to show me my own sins and never to see sin of another. I try to have, I want to get that piece where, like, St. Moses, at the end of my life, I can smile when I leave this world. So that's where I'd like to be. I know that's a long journey. It's maybe too much to us, but forgive me. So what I was going to say, I was there.

And because naturally, St. Moses was in my mind. Because I'm like, why I cannot tell this story in the fourth century? I'm doing it now for two years and something is playing with me. Until all of a sudden I see literally in front of me, Chicago, funeral, grandmother. And then I'm like, well, I have a movie now. So I was super happy by the time I got home. was in Athens, but then I was like, oh, but how I'm going to tell a story of Chicago, I got to go

and meet somebody. And thank God, I met this amazing man here that without whom and his brothers and sisters, I wouldn't be able to do this. We were able to really put this together. And yeah, so that's how this honestly came about. Somebody might think you're out of it, but I told you the truth. So that's how these things come. And... Not to cut you up, but it's a beautiful thing because Chicago is Chicago, but it's also a microcosm for sort of everyhood in the country, right? It could be Memphis. It could be Houston.

It could be, you know what I mean? Where these situations are happening at a rampant pace, but it's perfect because Chicago is Chicago, sort of the epicenter right now of like gang culture and that whole sort of mentality. And whenever they want to demonize niggas, that's the first place conservatives like the name. Like I mean, with the quickness. What about Chicago?

I mean, hey, I'm a world traveler, right? And everywhere I go, you know what I'm saying? When you mention Chicago, they glorify the fact of Al Capone, bam, bang, bang, bam. As if that's gangster isn't stopped with Al Capone, you know what I'm saying? I mean, fo's been around since 67, you did. And we started off again being the Wheelcock's boys, we're taking four corners on the west side of Chicago where Polish and Italians. You remember why Luther King came to the West Side

about unfair housing because we couldn't move to the West Side back in the 60s. And so that's where the Wheelcock's Boys was formulated to protect us our families from these racist Italians and Polacks who didn't want us on the West Side of Chicago. And it morphed from Wheelcock's Boys

to four corners. You get it? The four corners and then it became hustlers. So she prayed for God to show her Chicago. and he showed her old black and then she came. No, no, west side.

She's the west side. She came to the west side. Okay, so what black is there? It's Pulaski Road. Pulaski Road. Absolutely. And I want to say, can I please say that? No, I'm a rapper from there.

No, no. I know now. I know now. Can I say something? Pulaski, South Pulaski Road, right? No, West Pulaski Road. That's a hood. And a lot of people ask me,

well, were you, you know, there are people, have these things like, oh, well, were you a little bit afraid to go there? Oh, no, they thought you were the fed when you put out. And I'm like, and I'm like, first of all, I'm Serbian. I grew up in a hood. That's number one. That's right.

Let's put that out there. So, and I must say that I, and I, if I say this from my heart, I will literally fear up someone to try to keep it back. I've never felt more alive. than going on the West 262 South Polasky Road. That's right, my office. His office. And working with people of the west side of Chicago,

I would never, I could never be grateful enough for the joy that you have given me. No, you earned the name of chief. And I, I'm sorry, guys. I felt a lot. She earned the name chief, man. We've been calling the chief all on the set.

It did, because again, she was there to give a master class. She took guys who was literally on the corners, selling drugs, guys who was in a roughhouse trying to rap in the hallway to their peers, you did, go what I'm saying, and literally put them in front of the world. Yeah.

Had enough trust in these guys, put them in front of the world. I mean, there was there's beens there, such as Omar. Then she took some rappers and trusted them, you know what I'm saying, to come out to the rapists. personality and become theirs beings

and these guys encompass these personalities and I was right there with my foot down and make sure they kept it authentic for real for real we're getting you some tissue

Elaine sorry sorry I I hate doing this I don't I'm so sorry about this don't this I'm so sorry about this this our this our

Elena is our soul sister she was the skipper right and for those because there will be those is white women this that she she's from a war-torn country and when you sit and you talk with her and you discover her intention is coming from the right place and that ultimate place where that color and all of that

doesn't exist we we are that it's the energy yeah it's the energy that's really driving us really so we're able to articulate the same hard-ass tower and and and have the and and create the conversation but the right conversations and coming from the right place. So to piggyback on what Akeem was just talking about is like, nah, she went boots to the ground, you know, in the mud, showed up. And was there and was comfortable

because the people could feel that energy. For real, for real. You know what I mean? They could feel that energy emanating from her so everyone felt it was a safe space. You know what I mean? To give and to be vulnerable and to expose those parts of themselves.

You said you never felt more alive, Elena. I want to hear more about that because a lot of times people talk about places. They talk about people they never talk to. So you actually went there and spoke to these individuals. What made you feel so alive? There's so much love. There's so much humility. And maybe there's a lot of destruction.

But how people, they're handled pain and lost. I mean, anybody else can be ashamed of if they saw. that kind of love and that kind of humility. And I always say, like, when we, sometimes I have both of my boys there in sports, and any serious athlete will tell you that you're as good as your worst day. So if people want to see what their souls look like,

they can go visit those inner cities. Ooh. You go, I promise. I mean, again, another thing that, impress me about her. And the heart, you'll feel alive. I mean, maybe because I love God. I'm a believer.

So maybe also that's the connection. People have faith there because that's all they have. And I know what it means to have only faith, and that's how to live by. And I don't consider that a curse. I consider that a gift. Because when we are weak, we are strong. And this is, I feel, where we're connected.

and people opened up and they gave me so much love and trusted me and I, and that gave me courage because we did not have all the funds. We did not have with Khalifa. We did not have 50 cents. There was nobody there. The Andy Wilder. Nobody. Nobody.

We were just thinking there was going to be maybe one of the rappers going to wrap these lines and little by little things were happening. And it was beautiful to see how this. And then I couldn't let the community down. There were moments when it looked like it was not going to happen, but I just gave it all to just do the justice to these beautiful people. They've reminded me that it's those moments that matter when you feel joyful and alive. 50s are EP on this film, right?

Yeah, 50s are EP. And again, I think we were all drawn to the project for the right reasons. And, you know, 50 going to do his thing. But he was in, he came, he came down, he was hands-on, and as the pieces came together, and I think he definitely felt the energy and obviously felt that this story is important and necessary. Did 50 bring you in or did, like, how did that work? Like, what was the time that?

She said that you didn't have anybody at first, so how did that time not work? First whiz came on board. Okay. Was Khalifa. And this was, again, can I say, this because I maybe I I was I was I was I was in Greece and I knew God we need a name I mean like this this is not gonna go down well we need we need to get something going here so I this prayer that I call specific person and I'm like why would I call

this person and I'm thinking wait a second this person had a fundraising and with Khalifa was doing the fundraising in Pittsburgh for Pittsburgh Steelers. I'm like, okay, well, I'm going to try. So I called this lady and

she was like, that's a great idea. And two weeks later, Wizz says, yeah, I want to read the script. And he ended up reading the script and after we had a script to show and he just said this. He was like, I'm in. I mean, this is going to

speak to people. And so he was the first person who came on board. So that helped us, I believe, then to go out and make other offers. And I'm so grateful that I had to wait for Omar Epps to come and meet with me in person, which is rarely everybody wants to meet on Zoom. I'm like, can I just look somebody in the eye and see, especially if I'm the film director, I want to see who I'm working with. Well, with Kalifahangeloom, blew no smoke in your face, you know even. No, we were, we saw each other on the Zoom first. But then when we saw each other face to face, there was something else he said that gave me courage.

And this is, it's amazing to hear it from WIS. WIS goes, you know what, Yelaina? I'm on board with this 100%. It takes a year, two years, three years. I'm like, looking at him like, okay, this is very encouraging. You know, you know, this is coming from him. It's because, you know, whoever is meant to be part of this project will be who is not, they're going to fall off.

And I remember those words from him. And that also gave his stress. And then I met Omar and you watched my previous film, right? And he felt very connected. I mean, he can speak for you. He can speak for yourself on that. And then 50, you know, 50 came on board after that. But you know, Cuevo, Skiller Baby, like you said, Deonté Wilder.

Like as everyone came together, we knew the assignment as it were. And we all got to it, you know. And I think we created something really special that will speak to the community that it needs to, but also other communities. It's for everybody. So, Omar, what internal or even external forces were in the script that you found most compelling?

Well, for me, I was unfamiliar with the story of Moses, the Ethiopian. Moses, the black, which I was kind of aggy at, but there's so much history has lost to us, right? So to that, his story, I think Yelena spoke to this earlier, which it was simple, but it was so profound for me. And then just based on the last few years of, you know, personally, things that I've been dealing with and battling internally, you know, I just understood, it felt, as much as it felt like an assignment, it kind of felt like a gift. It was a reward for the work that I've done my own personal redemption. You know, it was like here's an opportunity to share that with the world. You know what I mean?

And so I just put a thousand percent of myself into the piece, the character, all of it. I mean, we worked on the script. Very closely. I mean, Omar is just impeccable. He is amazing. And it helped, helped the script be. Got me even better. I don't know if you want to talk about it at all,

but you mentioned the personal work that you were doing. Yeah. I know with Cole read too, like that film was very, like even watching you talk about it, I watched your interview with Indy Martinez. And it seems like going from actor, Omar Epps, to the seat that you sit in now where you're acting, but you're also writing, directing.

There's, I mean, I feel like there's always... Oh, you mean, red clay. Red Clay, I'm sorry, yes, red clay. There's always been purpose with you, but I don't know, it just seems a little bit more interpret. personal now? Like it's connected to something a little bit deeper? Yeah. And are we feeling that personal work that you've done? Absolutely. I think that at this

at this point in my career, but not only it's my life, right? Like, you know, we always hear this saying like, yo, it's personal, it's business, it's personal. My view is all personal because you're one person that has a life to live. So everything that we do, every how, what am I doing? Who am I doing it with? And like, And why are we doing it? You know, that's what's driving me.

So if I can't, if I'm not, if I'm not feeling that, I don't want to say void, if I'm not feeling that space within myself where I'm giving, that's what it's really about. What am I giving? Because I, you know, I plan to at least live to 100. But, you know, when it's my time, the things that my actions and the things that I've been a part of will live on after me, what are they giving? At those points, 20 years from now, 50 years from now, 100 years from now, 150, 200, 200, whatever, if people come back and look at what you guys do every day, what can they glean

from that conversation, this conversation, you know what I mean? And so, again, in this format, in terms of, and it's a part of my evolution. I started out as, I really thought I was a writer, but you know me as an actor, and it's like, evolving to the other components of telling stories. It has to all be aligned in terms of purpose. I think you can relate to that. You know what I mean? Yeah, and I'm sitting there thinking even about you.

I'm just like, yo, even in the 90s, it felt like all your movies were purposeful, at least to me, whether it was juice, whether it was higher learning, whether it was wood, whether it was into deep loving basketball. I can take life less. from every single one of those movies.

I'm just like, you know, you didn't feel like you was, you know, working with intention then? I did. Okay. But sort of, because I was so young, it was working with, I was working with the opportunity versus creating the opportunity. Being a part of creating the opportunity, right? It's like, you know, you got, these are the choices.

And I'm like, all right, I'll pick that one. You know, that sort of aligns with my mission of like, I, that's a compliment in what you just said, by the way. Those were coming up age tales. Love and basketball is 25 years old now, right? Yeah. And even your newer films,

because in fatal affair, with Neil Long, I'm telling you, I had a guy that was stalking me and when you was outside of that woman's house, it took me back to when somebody was outside of my house. I was like, I needed to watch this. Life lessons.

Yeah, life lessons. And, I mean, that's ultimately. That's funny. You don't even mean to be funny. This is a movie on that. That place is great. I watch it. Ain't a good?

Yeah. They never have to go through that again. Those side lessons. That was another important phase that Yulani brought to the table, you know, as a theologian. You know, she was enlightening African Americans about their true history, you know, and how, again, we had a great hand in putting together the 27 books of the Bible. You know. Yeah, absolutely.

I had no knowledge of this because I thought Paul was the one who brought. brought it. Can I share? Can I share? Absolutely. Well, obviously the apostles wrote. Black history, ma' too. Yes, exactly. It's not an accident. I mean, obviously, we all know

apostles wrote the Bible, but at the time, there was no such thing as the Bible. There were many, many letters written. They were read in different churches at the time. Then the church went to a prosecution. There were a lot of martyrs that spilled blood

so today we can have what we have. But this is a fact. I'm just going to read something I read at the premiere in Chicago because I wanted people to be aware. It's basically the list of the 27 books of the New Testament were compiled by a tenacious grade, who, by the way, by birth, is an African man from Egypt,

and he was a bishop of Alexandria, which was the center of Christianity, not Rome, Africa. This is a historical fact. and in his letter in 367 AD he basically put these 27 books as books that he believed were really written by the apostles that people should read. And then that whole thing was ratified by the Synod of Hippo in 393 held in modern day Anaba in Algeria today. And later the councils of Carthridge in 397 and 499.9. held in close to Tunisia, Africa. Additionally, the Council of Rome in 382 also played a part in affirming the canon.

But the two main canons councils were held in Africa, and they were the first ones to accept the canon of the New Testament with its 27 books that are recognized today as the New Testament. So every time you pick up a Bible, the black men and women from Africa were the ones, basically in the fourth century of Alexandria that saved Christianity from destruction, not Rome,

and the African men and women played the most significant role in preserving Christian faith. So that's something that has been best kept secret in the West, and maybe it's time to be revealed. Take that, Dr. Umar. No, I'm just joking. Salute to you, brother. Solut to you, brother.

Listen, we're going to have a screening for Moses to Black. Eddie, set it up. I see it showing at one of the AMC theaters, AMC Empire 25 in New York Call them, that's what we'd be using I'm gonna, I'm about a theater for Moses to Black. Thank you, Bill. Thank you so much.

Thank you for having us. You're giving us a platform. That's wonderful. Also, real quick. Omar. Yeah, year. I got to work on the year, year, yeah. Why did it take you so long

to tell Canaan that you was his father? Oh, you getting into that? Yes, because you was making me mad. Episode at the episode. I'm like, you know you're getting sick every time you coffee, get weaker. Why would you tell him, hey, look, I'm your father. You know what I'm saying?

You know, that's some hard dudes to break. You know what I mean? Yeah. You had to, you know, get comfortable until he had to get the truth. But he was an old gangster too, even though he was a cop, he was a detective. Oh, yeah, he was old guy. He was still a little rocky back in the day, you know? Yeah, yeah.

Y'all failed that young boy. When you do these characters, like, you know, your character in raising Canaan or even your character in loving basketball, people would, like, attach to them so, like, heavily and so deeply. Like, do you take that as, like, a nod? Or sometimes is it like, oh God, like give me a second, y'all. Like this is just a character. Nah, I love it because I think that I've been doing it long enough that people, people are able to detach. You know what I mean?

So even like, you know, when you brought up something like fatal affair, I run into women and they was like, you was a creep. And they'd be dead ass. Like, you know, and I'm like, I did my job. You know what I mean? They try to have those conversations with loving basketball, too. Like whether you were a-ho or whether there was a real conversation about. love there, was it toxic, was it not? Like this whole TikTok breakdown of love in basketball.

It's like a whole thing. You think it was toxic? I don't think that you guys were young and I think you were kind of learning on the job. Right. But. Like that's life. That's love in general. I think any age. But I have seen critiques of the movie where people feel like some of the things that you did

and said are like the choices you made were a bit like she should have been left you and it does. Why they don't never talk about Quincy's trauma that he was dealing with? He was definitely dealing with trauma. Why don't think about the daddy? The father's son issues that he was telling you that he talked about the women who come up to him and say about fatal attraction. I'm telling you what I've seen from the women when it comes to love and basketball. See, the key distinction, you just said why Quincy's drama, the character, you're saying you.

Yes, see. That's what causes the conversation. And it's hard to look at you and not think about the characters because we've lived with them for so long. Like, even when you walked in, she called, what did you call her when you were? Yeah, I forget what character. But like, that's why I'm like, I wonder what he goes. See, they're younger. See, when you come from a little.

certain era. I was born in 1978. Like that's... That celebrity was so different. We knew Omar Epps, the person as well. You know what I mean? Like Omar, that's Omar Epps. And even now what we know of you, I mean, from what you share from like social and just interviews, it's like, you know, you and like your wife and your family and I know you writer, producer, actor, and I'm seeing her back on tour now.

So it's like we get to know you differently than how BC300. Wow. Yeah. Absolutely. You know. You made yourself sound like the Old Testament. What do you mean, 1970? Yeah, I wrote a book of the Bible.

Y'all ain't know that, did you? No. That's the one where they discovered that the music angel was the devil? Shut up. I love it, man. I love, you know, the younger generation that, you know, the work resonates with them and whether stuff from back in the days or stuff that we're doing now. I just, I love all of it.

The conversations are fun. And that's what, you know, it's provocative. You know what I mean? The people go. I mean, even with a film like Moses to Black, and you think about all those movies we grew up with in the 1900s and 90s, they had intention. Exactly.

It feels like the intention recently is just to make money, make money, let's put it out on the screen. It's like there's no intention in films. Sinus felt intentional to me. 100%. Look at all the money in May. Exactly, Black Pan. I think there are films that are intentional now.

A lot of them, I just think that just so much. You know, it's hard to, back then, I'm going to use this word loosely. I feel like there was a curation system. I don't know if it was curated or controlled. It's one of those, right? But I think

there's so much to digest now. It's just, you got to, it's hard to find it. But you know with the control back then, why did it shift? Like, everything we say we want black cinema to be now, it was then. So what happened after the 90s? It created a new generation of billionaires. They

was like, hold on. We didn't want try to get that motivated. I don't know. I don't know. I'm just saying. A lot of things are one green lighted. You know, I would say from a viewer perspective, you know, things was cook, cookie cut. Once it proved to be successful, like friends stole from living st.

Living St. Livingston. You know, do it over, repudiated it over and over again. Talk about it. You know, once it, make money, let's do it again. Do it to it die. You know, and that's what we need people like Elaine that come with unique perspectives. I also think the celebrity too

Like the star appeal and the talent The way that it's What do we like? I guess you would say developed is a lot different Because I think when I watch you guys Like younger you on screen in different movies There's a certain thing about how you act That is just like I can't

I would never see that in another actor But now I think people are super talented But there's no like you know You have so many OGs that helped you figure out What your voice was and you know what your movements were I don't know if everybody gets that all the time now And I think that's a part of it So you might have these amazing scripts,

but some things just go swept under the rug because the characters don't, you don't live with them after the movie's over. Let me say something. That's interesting what you just said. I think that people have to realize what you're doing is a craft. So this is what I want to say.

It's like with what y'all do, everybody think they could just open up, put on the camera, get a mic, and just start talking. That's not what it is. It's night and day. When we sitting with y'all, this is professional,

not because they say they are because of there's that thing that you're talking about. These people have worked at this. They know what they're doing. There's a difference between, you know, Joe in Arkansas and people at Reference Club. You know what I mean? And technology has given everyone a platform. So it seems like it's equalized at playing field.

And I think even in what I do, everyone thinks they can act. But it's like, oh, we train for this, went to school for this. And you might have a different path. You don't have to go my path. have to go the path of the ones before me. But you take it seriously enough to respect it. And it's unlike sports, right? Like sports, you have to play and you have to go through this thing to actually get better.

Everybody can't get into the league, though. You know what I mean? And I think that, you know, there's a difference between mediocrity, good and great. And if we're aspiring for greatness, that's why I feel like the word legend is thrown around so much. I'm like, when I was younger, like, we reserved that for like, you know. Now it's like everybody's and it's like, no, you're a legend. For sure. For sure.

Yeah. 100%. For 30 years. 10 year. I got tenure. Tenures should mean something, right? Time and the body and the body of work. Yeah.

And the impact. But, you know, I just think that the younger generation take, take themselves seriously enough and be patient with the process. You know what I mean? Especially when it comes to what I do. as far as acting, you gotta have life in you. You gotta have experiences to be able to draw from. You gotta have an ocean of emotions and just, and that only comes with time.

You know what I mean? And even though I started when I was really young, my 17 was the average person's 30 because of where I come from and what I had seen in that small 17 years, the average person would take 30 years the experience, you know what I mean? So again, everyone has their different journey. I don't wanna knock the young.

a generation because I love them. Yeah. And I'm inspired by them, you know, but I acknowledge that difference. My last thing I'm going to say is when I said earlier that your work now seems a little bit more personal, and hearing you say that, what I think it is is like the same way we felt about watching your earlier films and you had that life, the life that you have now, I think we're like getting, like you're pulling the veil off of it through your new projects. And hearing you say that right now, I'm like, okay, this is like, this is like round two of

the iconic like Omar. and it's it's you know the intention is the focus is different of the intention even though the intention has already been there I like that so I'm yeah love to see it yeah maturation there you go that's a good work oh I didn't know that work yeah Elena if you ever think about doing the story about Baltimore I'm here okay just going to put that absolutely I yes yes because I'm already joined to you by the last name you know Papa bitch I love it right I'm going to resonate great you with that She's not probably a bitch.

I know you're in a kid to come to Baltimore. Because you don't go to Chicago. She said if you put it back on your blanket and God tells you, she got you. Yes. I guess you got, you got me. That's a hard action. She got a documentary to do before she do anything else. She wants me to, he, she, look at me.

It's all right. He wanted me to do that, which I'll be very happy. I mean, in light to show how this all started and to show the light at the light at the the end of the tunnel. There's always the light at the end of the tunnel. That's the key. That's the purpose of all of this that we're doing. That's the key. It's for a generation that feels hopeless. There's always, there's always hope, man. You have to, it's not, it might not be right there in front of you, but you have to have that. There is a light at the end of the tunnel. You know what I mean? And I like to say, as a white woman, she wasn't afraid of

my jury. Because most people be like, I say, listen, I won't stainless steel for 18 years and nobody's saying

nothing. So God transformed this to go. Right. I'm going to flaunt it. I don't know that's funny. And my God.

Let's go out there support Moses to Black is in theaters right now. I mean, look, check your local listeners. I just check local listeners in New York

and they definitely got some showing. So all around the country, man, make sure you just go Google Moses to Black and see where it's at in theaters. You want,

you know, you want to say something? That's it. I just want to say it. That's it. Chicago listeners on bro. On bro. On bro.

You're going to turn Yelena Popovich out. Lockheedon. Is Reginal Laquine Barry Sr. Elena Popovich, Oma, Mawmawr, man. Thank y'all for coming. Thank you, son, man. We appreciate it. It's the Breakfast Club.

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Sacred Lessons is here for you. Listen to Sacred Lessons with Mike Delaroach on the IHartRadio app, Apple Podcast, or wherever you get your podcast. This is an I-Heart podcast. Guaranteed human.