The Breakfast Club - INTERVIEW: Pastor Mike Todd Talks 'We Outside Tour,' Progression Vs. Perfection, NLE Choppa, Outfit Backlash

Episode Date: November 4, 2025

Today on The Breakfast Club, Pastor Mike Todd Talks 'We Outside Tour,' Progression Vs. Perfection, NLE Choppa, Outfit Backlash. Listen For More!YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@BreakfastClubPower1051FMSee omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

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The Breakfast Club. You're all finished or y'all done? Morning, everybody. It's DJ NV. Just hilarious. Salomey de Guy. We are the breakfast club. We got a special guest in the building.

We have Pastor Mike Todd. Welcome back, brother. What's going on, fam? I'm y'all good today? Yes, how are you feeling? How you doing, brother? I feel great, man. Y'all look good in here.

Thank you. Before we dive into anything, I do have a question because they were making fun of me, right? What's up? I was speaking to a pastor, and we were talking about the celebration of Halloween. Okay. And we used to go all out as a family. We used to do these videos and, you know, make it fun. I used to decorate the house.

And the pastor said, I don't know if it's a good idea to go that far into it. She said, I'm not going to tell you don't trick-a-treat, but what you're doing might be a little too far. I got you. What's your thoughts on it? So there is a whole bunch of different camps on this, especially as people are actually coming out of that holiday. My thing is this is a season where the origins of it are very dark, demonic, let's say, evil. There are specific things, though, that happen in our culture that I believe can be redeemed. So I have little kids that actually like dressing up.

And if they dress up not on Halloween, it's not a bad thing. It's like, oh, look at him. He looks like a little princess or anything like that. So what me and my family do is we use this opportunity to reach people with what we believe, with faith. We use this moment to bless people to give to them to actually, this is a time for people to actually meet their neighbors. Do you know how many people live in their neighborhood? never talk to their neighbors never actually you drive by them you look at their christmas light but you never talk to them so we use this as a moment to actually meet our neighbors we invite them

to church we bless them with the best candy we actually talk to them and use it because all things can actually work together for good i definitely think that there are some evil things that happen in this season also i think to the pure all things are pure and there is something good that can come out of every situation also at the church We do fall festivals and we bring kids to the church. And we take something that culture uses some time to glorify something else. And we try to figure out a way where we can put hope, love, joy, peace in the middle of it. And so I just would encourage everybody to use this as a moment to come together and not divine.

You know, so interesting, I don't think nobody's thinking about Halloween as something evil. It's a community. It's joy. Like you said, it's the giving of the candy. It's a bonding thing with the family and the neighbors. It's like, I don't think nobody's looking at it. Now, there are some evil stuff. Come on now.

Hold on. Wait a minute. I mean, first off, all of the, come. Why are he going to do that? Why he's dressed up as devils? Come on, man. Don't do it like that. People dress up as devil.

And we do know. So one day, and when people do this all year round, yeah, yeah. One day of people pretending in bad? I think that. So horror movies are evil, too? I think a lot of the origins of them are. A lot of the killing.

A lot of the evil spirits, a lot of the ghost stuff, a lot of demonic activity, the seances, the Ouija board. I mean, I could go on and on and on. I do believe that stuff is demonic and does, is spiritual from darkness. What about hip-hop when you're playing the records about people killing each other? I think a lot of that is evil origin as well. But you know what? Let's be honest. But you know what?

Did you go stop playing those records, Envy? Sholomey, he grew up, Jova's weakness, and so he wasn't able to celebrate a bunch of holidays. So he is living out his little boys. I think it's different. You know what I mean? So he don't even look at it as a, you know, demonic and all that. I'm about to say. No, I'm asking, but one, somebody would say that it's more diving into demonic ways and worshiping the demons, worshiping the demons.

You don't think that, you don't think that music does that? You worship it? Satan was, what was Satan? The minister of music? Yes, sir. Oh, okay. But do you worship it? You worship music?

Yes, I do, actually. I love hip hop. I think that worship is a little different. I love it. Hold on, hold on. Hold on. Hold on. Worship is a definite, um, bowing down to something.

Okay. So let's be very clear about that. And music is a conduit of worship. So I would encourage everybody, whatever you're listening to, there is something that can get into your heart, your spirit, your mind, your soul that will make you do things that is not what you would really want to do. It begins to show your allegiance and to make idols of different things. And so that's why music is so powerful. And I will say, I agree with you that the origins of a lot of the music that is out and that we listen. to is from evil nature. Darkness. Oh, completely. It's not even close. But that's why you have to have strong will. If you have your own, you know what I'm saying? You got strong will and you won't be affected.

I will say that a strong wheel will get you so far. But there are things that are more powerful than a will. There are decisions that you can make to partner with certain things that are stronger than your decision. No, I don't want to do that. How many people have said I ain't going back to that? dude and he called you at nighttime and you end up in his bed. Dang.

Oh, let me just say it from Halloween to hit. I'm just trying to say. Trick or treat. What I'm saying is how many times did we say we're not going to eat the donut and we're sitting there with a box of Krispy Creams? How many times have we said so strong will is not always enough? I really believe that you have to not just have strong will. You actually have to have disciplines, practices, things that are accountable around you.

Because if you don't, you will end up. I think everybody listening and everybody in this room has done stuff, we had a strong will that we were not going to do. Yeah, for sure. And that's why I think that we really have to put our faith in something that's stronger than our strong will and have a foundation that'll never change. And for me, that's Jesus Christ. See, Charlemagne is the type of person.

You give up cigarettes and he'd be like, but you still drink a soda though. But can I be comfortable with what I want to be comfortable with? I'm not judging. But also, too, when he failed, to mention is, uh, I don't think you can, I don't think you can do a little bit of evil. What do you mean? So if you think something is wrong, you can't do a little bit of it. I got you.

You know what I'm saying? I hear you. So either you're going to stop doing it all together or you're still, you're still sending. I'm just not diving into the, the huge thing that I used to do before and do these huge videos and, and decorations and productions. I'm not doing that. If my kids wanted to dress up and trick-tree with their friends, I'm cool it, but I'm not opening up my door for that.

negativity in my house. We got to celebrate this. This is progression though and not perfection. And I think that everybody has to do that because there will be the Charlemains of this world that always try to pick out what you're not doing. Yes, every day. But I felt that. You need an amen right there, huh?

But I feel like that that's not the way that people change. People don't fall into their vices all of a sudden. They fall in progressively. It's watching something. It's doing something. It's then participating in it all the time. becoming it. No, this is all of a sudden. Because on Friday, he was telling us how he forgot his costume. He was supposed to be damed ass, blah, blah, blah.

And then all of a sudden today, he was like, my past is the time. But I said it clearly. And then in the next break, shout out to everybody who celebrated Halloween this week. No, I said, the thing. But see, the transition is messy. I said the production, I'm not doing the production and opening up my house today. Envy, I'm with you, but I am still go, I still go out with my kids. Hey, listen, don't let them, do not let him or anybody else.

don't do know anybody else it's him okay it's just trying to make it's funny but this is what I'm saying hey bro the truth of the matter is all transitions and have tension when you're trying to make a change especially when you have been something else you have to realize that people

won't understand your transition because a lot of times that transition is supposed to happen in the dark it's supposed to have a dark room you have to develop into that thing and because you guys do everything in front of everybody and somebody can pull up what you said last week or last year or last month and like you not that hey forget all of that for everybody that's listening in

this room right now and that's in here progression is messy would you tell bruce jenna the same in my mind because i was thinking that when he's talking about saying transition and again and again what i'm going to tell you is progression and changing into who god has created you to be is a messy process and sometimes you go back and forth sometimes you're trying to figure it out sometimes you're trying to feel what's real to you and what you actually have to do. So I celebrate you in making the progression step that's what you feel like you need to do.

I do have another question, no. You know, we did a deep dive into it this week and that's what I'm asking? So when you speak to somebody that's like a medium, right? And they're saying that they can see the afterlife or in between. What's your thoughts on things like that? Does that come from a positive place

or is it a negative place or we don't know? The supernatural is very real. Absolutely. Let me be very clear. The supernatural is very real, but the Bible is very clear too that the same people that were inspired and empowered by God to actually make change, we can use Moses and we can use Elijah who were calling down fire, there were people in that time that were actually empowered by evil forces or by the devil. And so I definitely believe that when somebody is channeling a different spirit or talking to the future, my question is, where's the source?

is the source god the god of the universe the god who created all things the one who loves everybody or is the source something that is evil demonic perverted twisted and so i definitely believe all of it's real and i definitely believe that you can hear and see those things um through people because there's too many signs of that everywhere but the truth is check the source would you would you talk to a medium not to find out anything i would talk to him to pray for him okay Because I already have access to God. And everybody has access to God through Jesus. So the truth of the matter is a lot of times these mediums, these sources, these people are cop-outs for actually talking to the head person.

A lot of people won't go to God because they think that he's ashamed of them or he hates them or it's going to be like what religion did. And God is a loving father that's waiting for his children to come home. And it's like, why would you go talk to your uncle when you can come talk to your dad? Yeah, and mediums actually talk to the spirit guides around you. I don't think it's God. And again, why would you go talk to an assistant when you could talk to the CEO? And a lot of people choose cheap cop-outs because they feel like that they have to present themselves a certain way. But I just tell people like, I don't need anybody to tell me what God's already told me.

That's why even prophets in the Bible, they're supposed to bring edification and confirmation to what God's already talked to you about. Well, I don't disagree with you, Pastor Mike Todd, but I hear a lot of people feel that way about Jesus. And what I mean by that is they say Jesus is God's son. So why do I have to talk through the son to talk to my father? Because the Bible says that Jesus is the only way, the truth, and the life. The only way that you can come to him is through, the only way you can tell me to the father is through the son. Because he knew that we would not be able to understand his ways. The Bible says his ways are not our ways.

Thoughts is not our thoughts. He's higher. So I'm going to take myself, the Trinity. Now we're getting into a deep theological thing. But we get into the Trinity and it's the Father's Son and the Holy Spirit all in one. And he said, I got to give my children something they can relate to. So I'm going to, I'm going to wrap myself in humanity. I'm going to put on humanity and I'm going to come to the earth. And when I come to the earth, I'm going to live this life sinless for 33 years. But I'm not going to do it without temptation. I'm going to let all the temptation. that they would experience come. And because everything that is redeemed has to have a sacrifice, I'm going to become the sacrificial lamb for everybody. And all they got to do is believe that this was done for them and they'll have access back to the Father. And what ends up happening in that is all it is an acknowledgement that God did this for us.

And when you understand that, you really understand the love of God. Like most people, you know, people are going through all kinds of stuff right now. And most people just don't know they're loved. Like they were loved even before their parents had them. The Bible says, before you were in your mother's womb, I knew you, I chose you, I called you. So like even all the crazy bad stuff that happens in this earth because we're in a fallen world right now, there's still somebody who loves you enough to help you, redeem you, send good people into your life, give you different opportunities. And so for me, man, I know who I was

before I met God for real. Like, I knew I was a liar, addicted to pornography, a manipulator. I had very evil things in my heart. And then I realized I was loved by God. And he had a plan for my life. And he took all my gifts and my talents and all that other stuff. And I could use it for him. And it changed my life.

And I want as many people to know that. And I don't care what you think about me. I don't care if you clown me. I don't care if you. I know the truth that one day we all going to find out. And I'm passionate about it. because I don't want nobody to get to the great judgment and be like, nobody told me. Like, I'm going to be the dude that's like, yo, at least I tried to tell you, like,

there's a different way to do this. And God really loves you, man. And so that's my, I didn't come here to preach, but I guess I just. You know what I'm saying? You said, receive a word. Yeah. But Jesus was 33. 33.

Oh, my God, I'm 33. Look at you. That's what I. You and your Jesus here. You and your Jesus here. You and your Jesus here. That's what I. But you do know he died at 32.

You don't. No, no, no. But the thing about that is stop that and that's crazy. Every day you deal with this? No, this is the thing. I'm going to, I'm going to say this. Something in you is going to die so that a greater version of you can live. There you go.

Okay. Thank you. There you go. Okay. Can we stay on this for a second? And I'm going to tell you the reason I want to stay on this for a second because I've been having this conversation a lot lately. And I've always felt like this my whole life. I believe in God.

I believe in Jesus. I believe Jesus was a messenger. He was sent here to show us the best example of what we can be. The thing I have a problem with is us is humans. Yeah. We act like we have unlimited sins because of the sacrifice that Jesus made. Yeah. Why don't we strive to be the best versions of ourselves the way that Jesus did?

Yeah. As opposed to just sin and sin and sin and sin and sin in and then we can just pray it away. Yeah. So I think the truth of the matter is people don't understand the cost of what Christ did for everybody. because if you understood the cost you wouldn't treat it so cheap exactly the truth of the matter is it's a fictional story

for most people what Jesus did being scourged and beaten and laid on a cross and while he's on a cross he looks over at a thief and literally says today if you believe in me you'll be in paradise

and two guys had a decision to make and one of them's like no I'm good and the other one was like yo I believe like he's literally getting killed and he's steeped trying to show his love for somebody who was a sinner who did the did the crime and so a lot of people they don't understand how much it costs and just like in our society day

nobody understands what tax evasion really cost you until you locked up for 15 years like I mean it's the human nature to like you don't know what cheating on your spouse cost until you have to see your kids on on visits that are supervised you're right yeah we try to romanticize how much things cost but really it costs a lot more and so that's why there's a scripture in galatians that talks about so now that we've received this beautiful grace do we keep going on in sin and it says of course not he was like we we don't keep doing the thing that he rescued us from we got a change in our conduct in our act and our love

and that's why the fruit of the spirit should be love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, gentleness, self-control. That's what we're actually supposed to be displaying but it's hard to display that when you think that what happened was a fairy tale or was something back in the day

it's just an historic fact instead of the greatest act of love that we've ever seen. Yeah, when they say the best apology is changed behavior, I believe the best form of repentance is changed behavior you're talking big you're talking big right there because repent is not a church word it just means to turn that's what repent means and so a lot of people say sorry but they don't turn a lot of

people repent in their heart but they didn't turn you go into the altar you pray lord if you save me out it is i promise i'll never smoke that and i'll never shoot that and i'll never do that and as soon as you get saved you right back in the same so you didn't repent you just said i'm sorry but It's not until you start going a different direction that there's actual repentance. And that's where what you're saying, the change behavior, that's really the modification we all have to make to actually line up with, I think, the plan and the will of God for all of our lives. What would you say to, like, the younger generations, right? Like, you know, recently I saw the NLEC chap that sat down with all these men, Kirk Franklin on his show, right? And he's read the Bible, according to him.

That's what he said. He said he read the Bible. but he some things you know you got questions about you're confused right and he was saying like if jesus was the son of god right and god is our father yeah and jesus our father that's like that's confusing a little bit to him understood what he was saying you know but the only response that somebody gave him was to read the bible again but it's like yo in that moment i felt like that was perfect to teach yeah you know what i'm saying like because even me at 33 i've i've been I've been reading the Bible, you know, since I was 25, and there are questions that I have,

but I'm also just afraid, right, to question God. And I know we're not supposed to be afraid to question some things, but like questioning God, I was raised like, no, you don't do that. But I'm, isn't it supposed to be that you don't question his timing. You don't question, like, when he does things for you. But I, we're not, no, you need, you know, you got a question. how do you find out something if you don't know right i've gone on a spiritual journey shout out to n leechopper for reading the bible you can come hang with me any day because what he needs

is community right he needs somebody to wrestle with those things um with him not in front of a camera like let me be very clear because as soon as a camera comes on everybody feels like they got a kind of show that they know you know what i'm saying and so that's why i think even probably in that interview i haven't seen the whole thing what you're talking about but whoever was in there probably didn't say what they believe because some cameras on and maybe they're still wrestling with it too like I just want to be I want everybody to embrace the process of becoming this notion that you can be 42 years old and know everything that's ridiculous it's the dumbest thing in the world the fact that you can be 23 or 24 however in L.E. Chopper is or be 70 this life is

a continued journey of humility teaching and learning and I pray that in NLE has an experience with God that would be undeniable. So the thing about me, and I'll just tell my personal testimony, there's still things as a pastor of a church that I'm like, God, I'm confused. Like I need, I need, and most pastors wouldn't say that because if you say that, then it's like, why am I listening to you? Like, there's a lot of stuff I do know, though. And the truth of the matter is anybody that says they know everything,

like any father that tells me he knows how to parent his kids fully. He's a liar. Any CEO that tells you I know exactly what to do in business. They're a liar. In every other trade, you respect the fact that somebody doesn't know everything and is willing to learn. But when it becomes to a pastor or a leader in the faith, it's like they need to know everything. You all get no room. Only Jesus.

I don't think it's about y'all needing to know everything. I think they want to make sure your actions line up with what you're preaching. Well, the truth of the matter is that has to be how we live. live like that has to be how we live because we don't see that all the time and the truth of the matter you don't see fathers being who they're supposed to be in marriages and you don't I mean name me one vocation that everybody in that vocation is doing it right and so I pray for those people and and I and I pray for them like I could be one of them so that's the thing where grace and mercy and love comes in because like I rock with people who messed up

and they did eight things right and two things wrong because the Bible tells us he's like hey those are you who are godly I need you to restore those people lovingly lest you be one to fall in temptation and fall yourself and that's my heart behind it and I think that more people need to wrestle with those questions with the same people not on podcaster or video chats or streams they need to go sit in a room with somebody and find out because there are answers there, but the thing that changed me is my experience. So everybody's trying to do it here, and it has to happen here. It has to happen. Out of the heart flow, the issues of life. And most people will stay close enough to God to get an understanding, but not close enough to have an experience. And there's

one thing that you cannot take away from anybody is their own experience. When you heard a song and it made you cry it don't matter if everybody else says that song is whack to you you had an experience and y'all can say this but every time i feel like this when i play that song do you understand what i'm saying there have been times where i've been in my room lonely depressed and i felt god come and speak to me and give me hope and give me encouragement and a tear fell down my eye as an a eight on an ingram i barely ever cry like that type of stuff i had experiences when i was about to go cheat and when I was about to and God said turn around now like hold on wait like turn around now turn around now I knew that wasn't me because me wanted to go but like I had experiences when God told me that he

would use my voice to help millions of people find him but I wouldn't have to cop out and be whack and I could be myself who he called me to be like I nobody can steal that from me yeah and so the truth of the matter is it may not make sense to everybody in their head but what does everybody uses Wi-Fi right now and doesn't know how it works. Don't even know where it comes from. I don't even know where it comes from. I mean, the average person

uses Wi-Fi every day. Knows how to connect, but has no idea how it works. Nobody knows how the microwave works. Nobody knows how their car works, but they use it. Why then when it comes to, you can look at the world and see God in everything? Why do you have to understand every single thing to believe it.

There's so much evidence all around. The fact that a man and a woman can come together and have sex and that baby, do you know how many things would have to go perfectly right? For it to come out with your eyes and their nose

and their skin complexion and look like your granddaddy? This is the majestic amazing awe inspiring God we serve it's just too good

it's just and then my other question is what else you're going to believe in where else should we go like the disciples said like there are other options but none of them have this much proof and so for me

anybody listening right now I just encourage you to go on a journey I encourage you to question I think the generation before did not question because of fear of being rebrand rebellious. And that fear of being rebellious meant sin, not trying to find an understanding.

But the Bible says, in all you're getting, get an understanding. And so I think that there are things that you can go after. And God is so loving that he'll show you himself. You know, it's interesting. You know, when I heard Natalie Choppel to say that, I've always innately felt that way, right? If God is my father, then Jesus would be my brother. And you look scriptures like Romans 829 that said for those God for new he also predestined to be conform to the image of his son that he might be the first born among many brothers and sisters and then you I think it was John 2017 yes Jesus tells Mary Magdalene to go to my brothers and say to them I am ascending to my father and your father to my God and your God so I've always said if I'm one of God's children

that Jesus must have been my brother yeah yeah and so that's where you have to go deep and I'm grateful to have this conversation with you. You got myself on number. I got your words. Like, let's talk. Because it's a theological understanding of the Trinity of God being all three in one. And most people don't understand that. That's where you get confused.

And we can walk through that. And I did a series on our church, Transformation Church, called The Upgrade. And it talks about the Holy Spirit. I basically gave the analogy that if you went into a beautiful hotel and you paid for the basic room, and the person said to you, it's like, hey, for free, you can have the upgrade. Would you take it? And everybody would. Like, I'll give you to, well, that's the same thing in the Christian faith, is that many people stop at just Jesus saving them. But Jesus says, before he leaves to be crucified, he tells the disciples, hey, it's better for me that I do go. Because when I go,

then another expression of me gets to show up called the Holy Spirit. And when the Holy Spirit, comes, he's the one that's going to lead you into all truth. He's the one that's going to guide you. He's going to be the paraclete, paraclete, which means he, or the paraclete, the one that walk alongside of you to help you in your daily life. And that's where the different forms of God begin to show up for believers. So I'll walk you through it, brother. But the Trinity is how God is all God, but he becomes man to be able to be the sacrifice for all

of us so that we can be able to get back to the Father. And see, that is confusing. But that's why you have to teach. And you have to also be open to learning as well. And I am and I feel like Chapa was, you know. And L.E. Chapa is, it's just that nobody was there to really give him that. Because he's like, yo, I think Jonathan told me just read the scripture. Yeah.

But reading again, read the Bible again. But reading don't mean you comprehend it. That's true. I need somebody to give me some understanding. So that's what I'm saying, the understanding of it. Number one, if I was to come here and explain to you a geometry problem, we would not get it in this session. And people are asking complex questions without basic concepts.

So it's very difficult for in a soundbite for somebody to give. Do you understand what I'm saying? And so that's where I would just say that if those people are really on, and if anybody is really on a truth, be willing to go on the journey for a long, than three minutes. For sure, because either Jesus is our brother or God is our grandfather, and I know God don't want to be called grandadhead. And so all I'm saying is, let's go on the journey together for understanding because

those who seek wisdom, those who seek it will actually find it. And that is where I think a lot of people just don't have a seek more beyond the quick viral moment. Yeah. And we got to go, the great things in life, everybody knows, are the things that you actually put actual intention, time, effort, and energy. For sure. Now, let's talk about this.

This we outside. This is tour. Yeah, we outside. Talk about this tour. 17 cities. So myself, Transformation Worship, which is a collective of artists from our church in Tulsa, Oklahoma. Shout out to Transformation Nation. And Todd Tribut, Kiera Shear, Jonathan McReynolds.

I mean, when I tell you the level of singing, the level of anointing, the level of just church that happens every night. We just finished our first week. And y'all... It's crazy. It's absolutely nuts. If you want to see what heaven's going to look like before you get there, you got to pull up to the We Outside Tour.

We're actually going to be here in Brooklyn on, I believe, the 16th. The 16th will be at the Paramount Theater. And I'm telling you, tickets are going crazy. people are enjoying and it's just a night of encouragement kingdom people coming together and uh we want everybody to come out it's beautiful absolutely this is what people need man how did the different acts come together how was tie tributt chosen how were you chosen how was kiki so this this is tai tributt's tour okay so tie um hit me up he actually came to our church in tosa oklahoma a year ago year and a half ago and um and we got on the stage together i'm a music producer before i was a pastor

Oh, don't know. I've worked with a lot of different people, but God said, yeah, stop that. And I'm going to teach you something different. And so I thought the music thing was over. And then a few years ago, we started making some music. Ty came. And he was like, bro, this is crazy. And I was like, yeah, we're just trying to do our thing. He was like, if I're going to tour again, I want y'all to come. And he's a man of his word. He hit me up. And he was like, bro, bring transformation worship outside with me. Let's do this tour in the fall. And this is my. In the new podcast, Hell in Heaven, two young Americans moved to the Costa Rican jungle to start over. But one will end up dead. The other tried for murder. Not once. People went wild. Not twice. Stunned.

But three times. John and Anne Bender are rich and attractive, and they're devoted to each other. They create a nature reserve and build a spectacular size. circular home, high on the top of a hill. But little by little, their dream starts to crumble, and our couple retreat from reality.

They lose it. They actually lose it. They sort of went nuts. Until one night, everything spins out of control. Listen to Hell in Heaven on the I-Heart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get

your podcasts. Here, we Hey, I'm Cal Penn, and on my new podcast, Here We Go Again. We'll take today's trends and headlines and ask, why does history keep repeating itself? You may know me as the second hottest actor from the Harold and Kumar movies, but I'm also an author, a White House staffer, and as of like 15 seconds ago, a podcast host. Along the way, I've made some friends who are experts in science, politics, and pop culture. And each week, one of them will be joining me to answer my burning question. questions. Like, are we heading towards another financial crash like in 08? Is non-monogamy back in

style? And how come there's never a gate ready for your flight when it lands like two minutes early? We've got guests like Pete Buttigieg, Stacey Abrams, Lili Singh, and Bill Nye. When you start weaponizing outer space, things can potentially go really wrong. Look, the world can seem pretty scary right now, because it is. But my goal here is for you to listen and feel a little better about the future. Listen and subscribe to Here We Go again with Cal Penn on the Iheart radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. The Big Take podcast from Bloomberg News dives deep into one big global business story every weekday.

A shutdown means we don't get the data, but it also means for President Trump that there's no chance of bad news on the labor market. What does a bacon, egg, and cheese sandwich reveal about the economy? Our breakfast foods are consistent consumer staples, and so they sort of become outsize indicators of inflation. What's behind Elon Musk's trillion dollar payout? There's a sort of concerted effort to message that Musk is coming back. He's putting politics aside. He's left the White House.

And what can the PCE tell you that the CPI can't? CPI tries to measure out-of-pocket costs that consumers are paying for things, whereas the PCE, index that the Fed targets is a little bit broader of a measure. Listen to the big take from Bloomberg News every weekday afternoon on the IHeart radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. A combat surgeon with secrets, a world built on power and privilege, and the most unexpected creative duo of the year. As an actor for so many years, I would always walk into other people stories.

And they thought, well, why don't I give it a shot, you know, and try right up my thought. This week, bookmarked by Reese's Book Club goes live from Apple Soho in New York City with Reese Witherspoon and Harlan Cobin, the powerhouse team behind Gone Before Goodbye. Now a New York Times bestseller. I think we both knew right away that this was going to happen. It's a conversation about fear, ambition,

and what happens when two master storytellers collide? I've never seen a woman in kind of a James Bond world. Come for the chills and stay for the surprises. and find out why readers can't put it down. Listen to Bookmarked by Rees' Book Club on the IHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. All I know is what I've been told, and that to have truth is a whole lie. For almost a decade, the murder of an 18-year-old girl from a small town in Graves County, Kentucky, went unsolved.

Until a local homemaker, a journalist, and a handful of girls came forward with a story. I'm telling you, we know Quincy Kilder, we know. A story that law enforcement used to convict six people and that got the citizen investigator on national TV. Through sheer persistence and nerve, this Kentucky housewife helped give justice to Jessica Curran. My name is Maggie Freeling. I'm a Pulitzer Prize-winning journalist, producer. And I wouldn't be here if the truth were that easy to find. I did not know her and I did not kill her.

Or rape or burn or any of that other stuff that y'all said. They literally made me say that I took a match and struck and threw it on her. They made me say that I poured gas on her. From Lava for Good, this is Graves County, a show about just how far our legal system will go in order to find someone to blame. America, y'all better work the hell up. Bad things happens to good people in small towns. Listen to Graves County in the Bone Valley feed on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

And to binge the entire season ad-free, subscribe to Lava for Good Plus on Apple Podcasts. First time being on tour with this team And usually I'm preaching places And traveling all the other stuff But it's been really fun, man To just get up there And praise the God that transformed my life And bring other people along with me

And so if you want to turn up, you got to come out All y'all are invited personally And you're saying for sure, Jess But I'm telling you on the 16th I'm gonna have a seat with your name on it I'm the one that's going come Okay, I'm the only one, they don't go out of the way Bring your six kids, envy

That's not true I got six years. I got you. I'll pay for it. Because that's seven. Actually, eight. Oh, hold on. Yeah, because they got a wife.

Okay. So that's eight. It's on me. If everybody wants to come, I will make sure you are there taking care of it. I want people to experience this because a lot of times people actually don't think you can have fun. You can actually have excitement. You can actually have joy in that type of context. But I'm telling you, as soon as you come up, as soon as you come in, it's a whole different level.

I already know. We're doing it at the Paramount here in Brooklyn. Did these third drinks? Yeah. The last place that we did. Now watch this. Watch this. Watch this.

Watch this. This is a live nation thing. Charlemagne's messy. But this is a live nation thing. At least wine. Yeah, this is a live nation thing. And this is the thing that I need everybody to know. Some of these venues have contracts that they have to sell alcohol and do all these different things.

And so at our last spot in Atlanta, I think they had drinks and everything. And the people who participated participated and the people who didn't didn't. Temptation is going to be everywhere Yeah So if you got to say Hallelujah with the drink in your hand God bless you But that's not what we're promoting

But we're not saying For anybody to not come Because that's something that you do When Jesus did turn the water to wine What happened to the wine? Nobody ever talked about that part They drunk it What are you talking about?

Nobody ever talks about that boy I think they probably They didn't just swim in it I think it was gone Yeah Yeah I want to ask you're one of the few you pastors who really speak the language of culture, right?

Where's the line between relevance and reverence for you? Yeah, so the line is at the conviction. I really have a relationship with God where he will correct me and convict me and I have a relationship with people who have the sit down and shut up card in my life. And most people, when they get to certain levels, nobody can tell them nothing. But I have a wife, shout out to my wife, Natalie, who is the greatest gift that God, ever gave me I met my wife when I was 15 years old and we've been together for 23 years married 15 four kids later and she's the only woman that sees me fully and when I say fully

she sees my insecurity she sees my fault she sees my lack she sees my successes and God gave her to me to be a mirror she don't care about none of this she don't care about anything She cares that I am a man of God and I do what I say. And so first off, if I'm coming home laying next to that every night, that's a line. Hey, Mike, that was too far. For real? Hey, you shouldn't have said that. Oh, dang, I thought that.

Like, so I have people like that in my life and that's just, she's the main one, but I have several others. And so I approach everything with reverence. I think that sometimes people get confused, though, um, uh, the, the way people present something with being irreverent just because it's different. And one of the things that I know

for me is like I would be this way if I was an Amazon truck driver. I would like clothes. I would listen to music. I would do like and God doesn't bless who you pretend to be. That's right. He blesses who you really are.

And so for me it's like God's changed me every part of my life throughout this journey and he's continuing to change me that's why i lead a church called transformation church i will not be the same this time next year something in me will have changed and prayerfully something in you would have changed and that's why a lot of time we take snapshots of people in their life and we keep them there but please make sure you run in a movie on me because i'm going to keep changing you you i mean three years ago i was 275 pounds stop line i am not playing with you jess

I'll pull up a picture I don't remember that you was 275 pounds I was hiding it in them 3x 4X supreme I was fly you couldn't tell but then God convicted me

he said how are you going to tell these people to live right and you are going to commit sin every day with your fork nobody talks about it nobody talks about the donuts that was you that was me because the truth of the matter is

I was sinning not with a woman I was sinning with a donut and every Hey listen I'm telling you I'm telling you I get what you say Hey you're laughing about it

No no no it's funny But the truth of the matter is people are out here judging other people for lying And commit adultery And they're doing it all while committing sin That's real That's real Like food was meant for

us to be nourished to fulfill God's plan Not to become something to give us peace when we need to go to him for peace. And so, again, that conviction came to me, and God was like, I don't want you to say nothing until you get your life in order. And so I turned my garage into a gym. I heard a personal trainer. Me and my wife work out every day together.

And I've lost 60 pounds. My wife finer than she ever been in her whole life. God, I thank you. And what I'm saying is, but it came because I got convicted. Like, and so, and again, we all miss the mark. Everybody misses the mark and falls short of the glory of God. But we all got to keep trying. You know what?

Yes. I was 275. That's, okay, that's crazy. That's crazy. Yeah, but. Yeah. And I was not like, like, big enough. It was under there.

It was under there. He's not big as shit, but he big enough. I'm not. Hey, God doesn't bless who you pretend to be. He blesses who you really are. I do not because. So, but I, but I, he doesn't, but you're fine. He don't smoke, he don't drink.

So what, what are you going over there for? Hey, listen. Don't judge, huh? Listen, you can cuss around me. Thank you. You're still. You shouldn't. Why?

I'm going to tell your mama. Why? What would your mama say? This is religion. Same thing you say it, but. Oh, speak on that. This is religion. What's happening right now is religion.

Religion says that I, I, I'm doing something because of who's around. I'm doing something because of how it makes me look. I'm doing something. because of how I want you to view me. If that's not who you really are, it can never change. And so for me, I tell people all the time, if you cuss, cuss around me. Something in me, though,

my prayer is we spend enough time together would allow you to see that that's not the type of language that you have to use to get your point across. But if that's what you choose, I would still rather be connected to you and have access to you and love you and be able to be an answer to your problems

then to be disconnected, you cuss right now I draw the line at coke and coke well I don't do none of that I'm saying don't do that around me I'm saying don't do that around me I mean there are tons of things you can't do around me just for the reasons of what I'm trying to live but the truth for the matter is sometimes we use those things and we act like that's a God thing and it's actually your personal thing that's real like stop putting everything on on God and say like I don't like when you cuss around me like hey but certain days of respect though like you ain't a curse around your You are certainly right.

Some people do. That's depending on who your mama is. And what I'm saying is if you don't do it around your mama, but you do it around everybody else, you're a faker. And what happens is, but what I'm saying is you're disintegrated. You are learning and practicing being different people. And there are too many people why depression is all high, while people are dealing with anxiety because they forget who they have to show up as.

So every room I walk into, I show up as myself. I don't have to change. I live a whole life. Most people, depending on who walks in, the bishop walks in, the CEO walks in, or a celebrity walks in, they are trying to figure out who do I need to be right now. So if you curse in front of your friends, you should curse in front of your mama or you're a faker? Yes. Well, this is the thing.

That sounds crazy. My mother with my butt. Yes. So that's the same, though. You've been a faker. Say it. So the truth of the matter is because there's a reason why she doesn't want you. you talk like that and you're choosing to go beyond that because i'm going to live my own life it's

your own personal convictions i'm just saying that i'd rather you be the same way so that god could actually change you instead of him having to find which version of you you're going to be today is it conditioning our conviction and what i mean by that is as jess said we're all conditioned and not talk like that in front of our parents parents for the most part right so is it conditioning our conviction like because i don't care in front of my mom just because i know she ain't going for it Right. Again, I think it could actually be the, it's conditioning. Like, you know that, especially in the black household.

Like, there's certain things you don't do here. But wait until y'all kids start doing it. Do you let your kids cuss in front of you? God damn. I mean, oh, my God, not you. What did you say? No, no, I don't. Do you let your kids cuss in front of you?

Hell no. Do you let your kids cuss in front of you? No, but I have asked my 17-year-old, when she was younger, 16, I said, do you curse? And she was like, yes. So all of you. Can I just be as your brother? Yes. You're living in a state of delusion.

What? Watch, watch, watch. Because you literally are doing the same thing your parents did to you. You've been conditioned. And you know your kids are doing the same thing you're doing. But for respect purposes, you would rather not teach them how to have a stronger vocabulary or teach them a reason why they cuss or do it. You would rather just be a secret from you.

And just don't do it around me. But then you could go online and see them. cussing out people. And listen, all of y'all are like, it's a respect thing. And it's like, all we're doing is keeping the cycle going. We're not changing language. We're not increasing vocabulary. We're not giving reasons or even understanding reasons why they're doing it. All we're doing is creating a barrier for them to be inauthentic around us. And so most parents are not the people their kids go to when they're in need because there's all of these micro fake things that we put up around ourselves. So when I'm

really struggling, I'm not coming to you because I can't be real. Because I'm pissed that these people did this and I need to cuss to whoever I'm talking to right now. And I can't cuss to my parents because it's disrespectful. So I got hurt and I'm pissed and I'm mad and I can't do this and we conditioned them to do that. So all I'm saying to you is

like, it's delusional. To your point, she might crush around her mom. I don't know. But I'm just saying. I'm saying. I'm saying these are the cycles. Mind, though. They ask permission. If it's something where they're like, permission to curse and then they curse. Yeah. But to see, It's a form of respect in my point. Just like my kids don't say bro to me.

My son is not going to be bruh. Right. He'll say that to his friends. Yeah, you got to check that. Because that's their dialect. That's their dialect. Because he doesn't call me brun because his friend, bro. That don't mean he's being fake.

That just shows a level of respect. The same way, when I speak to my dad or I speak to somebody older, I say, yes, sir, yes, ma'am. But I don't call just ma'am. Right. Okay. It's a different level of respect. So let me ask this question. Not to say that you're a fake person.

What I'm saying is. I think that, again, these are the conversations that we have to have in culture that we are creating what we hate. Like, these are the type of things that I wish when I was struggling with certain things, I felt comfortable enough to go to my parents. And it's all of these small, I mean, I'm getting school by people who don't know nothing and don't love me. Because if I do tell my parents what's really going on, I'm going to get my tail whooped. like and it's a form of and again i don't know if the black community is ready to have these conversations because a lot of times like we we we perpetuate what actually causes the trauma in our families and i'm just saying that if your kids cuss and it's a respect thing you know

they're cussing at somebody else's mama sometimes they may not cuss to you and you're saying that But that police officer that told them something, and they didn't like, you get the F of me and that's somebody else's mama. I'm just saying, we are conditioning our people, and I would rather know where my kids are and having those conversations. And again, this is deeper because it comes down to you how you want to raise your own family. So I'm not, do you understand what I'm saying? But I do think that it came from you cousin in front of me. And a lot of people, those are the things that we do. that are religious like we say that's bad but then cussing at our wife is not yeah what like

whoa wait a minute you cussed in front of me not even at me but you will cuss the person who loves you picks up your stanky draws and has forgiven you six times you'll cuss them out in front of your kids I do I don't disagree with you but I feel like we're kind of conflating two issues and what I mean by that is when my kids when my daughter should be 18 next year she curds in front of me I don't I don't care at that point you're just talking about in the season that you're raising her absolutely and I get it and I also think that um dang I think I lost a mother point oh I did lose mother point it's all right but that is in the season that you I do believe the Bible says train a child in the way they should go so when they get old they won't depart from it

it's not just what you say though it is what you do you're training them both ways so if you're teaching your children or teaching anybody, hey, you can do this, just don't do it around me. Is that really what we're trying to teach them? No, no. I'm just teaching them that everything, there's a season for everything. You turn 18, you an adult now, you can have that conversation. The other thing I was going to say is, I don't think, oh, that's what I was talking about. I don't think cursing is a barrier that keeps children from wanting to be open with you.

I think that you just want to establish a level of trust to where they feel like they can talk to you about anything. And I don't think them having to curse keeps that. I think the way that some parents act when their kids say things they hear their parents say does create barriers. I'm going to just leave it at that. I counsel and work with a lot of people that do not have healthy relationships with their parents. If you act like this over a curse word, imagine how you act.

If I tell you, I'm having sex or I'm a lesbian or I try these drugs over, damn. I get it. No, I'm not talking to you. Yeah. And so I'm just saying from the other side of helping a lot of people's kids who are adults that are 33 and 35 and 42 and at grave sites for giving their parents because of how they didn't have interaction with them. I'm just saying like I would, yeah, I would do it a little different. Yeah. I want to ask you, Mike, Pastor Todd, about this.

They said, Pastor Michael Todd slammed for distracting outfit during sermon on faith. and they said you had on what was considered feminine preaching attire. You had a dress on? No, we have no dress on. I was going to ask, when clips of your sermons go viral,

sometimes I guess for the wrong reasons, how do you handle being misinterpreted? What's feminine about this? You tell me, bro, it's black slacks, wide leg, that's in trend. It's a black shirt, and it's a cropped leather top. Yeah.

And it's got Chelsea boots on that are yellow. So my The truth They didn't know you had that shape That's the top showing shape Wearing all of three X's They used to 275 And the thing is

Nobody said anything to me When my belly was Literally folding over my belt I was more holy then Like But but because I got fit and healthy And I can wear a larger

A medium now It's feminine Yeah It's the culture we live in. Like, you know what I'm saying? Like, the truth of the matter is to play ball at this level, there's going to be opinions and pressure. How do you take people seriously with that? They forget your word, but they look at your word. I'm like, well, that the first thing I thought was like, I want to go hear what you're talking about. Right. Right. Literally, I'm like,

I want to go hear the word. And again, that's part of the reason why I have critics and anybody that decides to do anything other than stay in the house will have critics. And it's part of the process that God allows me to endure to be more like him. I pray for all those people. Now, that's the hard part. The hard part is seeing Christ Man 666 say something about me and having to be like, God, I thank you, Father, whatever made him post that comment or say that,

I thank you that you would heal his heart and give him the ability to have grace and capacity for other people. Like, that's hard. But that's what the Bible tells us to do. that's like love your enemy pray for them pray for those who despitefully use you these people don't know me and the truth for the matter of the reason i wore that's because my wife told me she liked it yeah like literally that morning my wife was like i like that one it was between this one and this one and she's like i like that one so the crazy thing is like those are just things to distract you right

and for me i have to stay focused and i have too much to do in this world and to to be put off by that is it wrong to be inspired by you know the word of another preacher because a lot of people right they think if they go to church and they hear one one person say this and preach their sermon this way or whatever whatever and then they go and they see somebody else say it then it's stealing no you know what I'm saying like bars and a rap song no you know if that's the if that's the case then we're stealing from paul john we're stealing from david we're still no the gospel is meant to be shared and the only reason that people try to corner the market on something is because they're insecure that they'll ever get anything

else. The truth of the matter is that protection of like, I said it like this, I said it like that. Like, if the whole goal is that the gospel of Jesus Christ be proclaimed so that everybody would know about him, if you don't know how to talk a certain way,

please use my words and tell them. If that helped you, help them with it. Like, this is the kingdom of God. And again, because the kingdom and a lot of areas has been turned into an organization instead of an organism like then people are like now it's my you know my property and my this and I said it like this and it's like yo I tell young preachers all the time take my stuff yeah preach it exactly how I preached it we have people do it

all the time I send people my notes like yeah what are you talking about like this is the inspired word of God like there are certain lines like if I put it in a book and say it a certain way and the company I'm partnering with has a contract that it has to be said you can't take that but like my messages and like how I said it like just my only thing is do it better

yeah now would you like them to credit you at least yeah that would be awesome but I mean how many of us wear clothes that was inspired by somebody saw on Instagram and we don't credit them and it's like oh that fit is crazy I'm gonna and so yeah like everybody wants to be recognized. Everybody wants credit, but for me, I know it's going to happen because of the

level that God has raised my platform to for whatever reason, that somebody's going to take that stuff. And my prayer is that it helps them the way it helped you. Yeah, I saw them accuse you of taking some some passage of sermon, word for word. I didn't listen to it, but I'm like, it's the word. It's the word, bro. And if somebody, if somebody's breaking something down in a way that makes me understand like y'all just said a lot of this stuff is confusing a lot of this stuff is we got to figure it out so if somebody gets a revelation or gets understanding or it's like oh it's like yes copy paste like tell some other people and this is the other thing that everybody has to remember how you say it will be different because you have different oil than them like there's a different

thing on your life than what they have on their life i think i heard sarah jake say it a couple days ago that like you can take the recipe you can take you can take the plans but when we do it because that oil different it's different process i went through different it's different and so and so that's oh she is a beast her and torre are doing an amazing job in dallas and again it's kingdom so i went to their installation service i didn't preach at my church and went there because people need to see this is not about one thing this is about the kingdom of god and so yeah man i for everybody psa if you hear pastor mike preach something or something and you feel like it could help your bible study or your youth group or your uh big church or little church you can use that man help people

get to jesus there you go i got one more question i think her i think that sermon by sarah jakes was called get out of your way i think that's what it was that was last week get out of your way but what's one area in your life where God is still stretching me. Jesus. Still stretching me? Yeah. What area is he not stretching me, man? I think the one thing that you got to realize about this walk with crisis is never over until we get to heaven. And a lot of people are looking for a season where it doesn't feel like growth. Because growth actually is hard. Like it's readjusting. It's all those. So I would say an area that God's still stretching me in. is the area of communication with the people I love.

Like, I know how to communicate really well to masses of people, but the nuance of communicating in the languages that the people I love need, specifically my wife, me and my wife, we believe in theology and therapy. So we go to therapy and we do intensives every year. This year we've done two already, and December 8th, I'll be back. again and these are like four five days straight three hours a day therapy and um because we got we got to figure out how we work and then figure out how to change the things that don't work yeah and i can realize and admit that some of my conversations with my my wife and um people that are

around me could have more compassion and have more um empathy in them yeah and that's an area that god's stretching me like he's saying yeah you said it but you could be more skillful And for me, that's such a dig for even me. I live transparent. So I'm saying it out loud and y'all can tell it's real. Because for somebody who communicates all the time and has a pretty high success rate of getting my points across, it's like I have to take more time to think about how I'm saying something, not just what I want you to hear me say. I'm trying to figure that out from my whole. And I can tell you not lying because you're sweating right on your news.

You hear me? Like, it's real for me. And the reason that I'm so honest about it is because, again, God doesn't bless who you pretend to be. He blesses who you really are. And so my goal is to become more skillful at communicating my heart and not just getting it said, but thinking about how the people I love feel on the other side of what I say. Because the truth of the matter is what I say is temporary, how it makes you feel lasts a lot longer. Yes, sir.

And I need to make sure that I'm not, I'm not damaging the most precious thing in my life. Yeah. And so, yeah, that's, Nat, I love you. Oh, right. That's the Mike Todd, man. We outside, y'all. We outside, y'all. Hey, man.

You got a close this out with a play. Oh, you had a book that dropped in February, too. Oh, man. Yo, I got a movie. No, no, y'all missing everything. Y'all late. Let me tell y'all what's about to happen. That's right.

Catch us up. Let me catch you up. We got a brand new movie about to come out called Relationship Goes movie with Amazon starring Kelly Rowland and Method Man okay what it's based off my book that I came up here and met y'all yeah bro we just finished it it's coming out February 4th I'm coming back to do a whole thing with that but they just announced the the release date I couldn't talk about it until now and so but I wrote a thankfully a New York Times bestselling book called Relationship Goals how to win at marriage dating and sex I wrote that in 2020 that same year

Devon Franklin called me and was like, have you ever thought about this being a movie? I said, you know I'm a man of crazy faith. I had already written it out. I had already, before you called me, the characters, the names, the everything. And it's so crazy. It's happening.

Amazon paid me to do a movie. And it comes out on February 4th, right before Valentine's Day. It's going to be solid. Congratulations. Thank you so much, man. And so that's happening. We outside tour and then Transformation Worship

just dropped the new album called Faith in the Fire. It's on all streaming platforms. It's got some really good music on it. And so I want you to go check that out. And so, yeah, we outside. So God didn't lay it on your heart. Did let me audition? You could actually be in relationship goals too.

Thank you. Okay, all right. So you heard it here first. I think you make sure all your stars are baptized before. All the stars weren't baptized on this one. Thank you. So, it's smoking on set either, you know. Hey, listen, man, it's progression, not perfect.

We need to hang out, Jess. Yeah, I need to get your number because we got to, you got to meet my wife. We got to, yeah, we got to do that. Yes. You know, he is a crazy man of faith too. A man, a crazy faith too. I got you. So, yeah.

Let's do it. Love that. He's Mexican, so he needs a friend right now. He's black and Mexicans, Mike. Like, he's not. My goodness. He's more black than Mexican. He's half and half.

You can't just say he's more black. He's half and half. But he speaks manners, so he's more black. Okay. Don't know Spanish. He says. do if he don't all right we praying yes sir father i thank you for this day i thank you for the opportunity to share with my

brothers and sister i thank you for all the things that you're doing in each of our lives and all the lives of the listeners today god i thank you that we all go on a journey of progression faith is something that we actually know is real but it's something we all have to discover and so i thank you that you would allow everybody that's in this room and that's listening to have an experience with you that would be undeniable i thank you father as people are getting furloughed right now and going through situations that are literally unimaginable in America. I thank you, Father God, that you would be peace that passes their understanding. Make ways out of no way. Do things that no man could do, Father God. With man, it's impossible, but with God. It is

possible. Today, Father, God, I'm thanking you that all things are working together for the good of those who are called and that love you. And, Father, if somebody does not know you, if somebody has been far from you, Father, thank you that your love, even through this interview, drawing them back home. I thank you for transformation that happening in people's lives, and I think you that people would get to know the way, the truth in the life, Jesus. In Jesus' name, we pray. Amen. It's love, man. Yes, absolutely. Thank you.

Every time. All right. Appreciate y'all, man. It's the breakfast club. Good morning. Hold up. Every day I wake up. Wake your ass up. You don't finish or y'all done. Hey, I'm Cal Penn. And on my new podcast, here we go again. We'll take

today's trends and headlines and ask, why does history keep repeating itself? Each week, I'm calling up my friends like Bill Nye, Lily Singh, and Pete Buttigieg to talk about everything from the space race to movie remakes to psychedelics. Put another way, are you high? Look, the world can seem pretty scary right now. But my goal here is for you to listen and feel a little better about the future. Listen and subscribe to Here We Go Again with Cal Penn on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

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