The Breakfast Club - INTERVIEW: Pastor Touré Roberts Talks New Book ‘Knowing’, Learning To Be Still, Self-Love, Overcoming Trauma + More

Episode Date: April 30, 2026

Today on The Breakfast Club, Pastor Touré Roberts Talks New Book ‘Knowing’, Learning To Be Still, Self-Love, Overcoming Trauma. Listen For More!!  YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@BreakfastClubPower1051FMSee omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

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Just hilarious. Salameen the Guy. We are at a breakfast club. Loran LaRosa is here as well. We got a special guest in the building. Our guy. His new book, Knowing, is available right now. Ladies and gentlemen, Torrey Roberts.

Welcome back. Past the Torre Roberts. I apologize. Good morning, brother. Good morning. How are you feeling this morning? I feel good. Good to be here.

I'm thankful. Very grateful. I got to ask how's the queen? She's doing good. She's got to chill for six weeks just to get stable, and then the recovery can begin. So you know Sarah, she likes to go, but I've got a whole team around her saying, you can't go. Go slow.

We need you. And so she's doing good, and she sends her love and greetings. I saw her post yesterday that, you know, she would love to be with you because y'all do all the big moments together, but she can't be with you and just congratulating you on the book as well. Yeah, yeah, it's hard because that's not just my bride, that's my partner. Like, we do everything together. So for her not to be here, it's rough, but she's almost threatened me not to,

like, you better not not go. You know, you got a great message. You got an assignment. I'll be okay. And so we negotiated. I said, look, as long as there, people around the clock, at the house 24-7 I'll go. Well, let's talk about it, right?

Knowing the journey to certainty in an uncertain world. Your book is about to come out and something like that happens. That's like the epitome of uncertainty. What do you think God was wanting you to know in that moment? Man, I love that question. The book starts off with basically me being in a challenging spot when I sat down to write it. So you can imagine that I'm writing a book that's about confidence

and knowing and so many other things, and then I get slammed. So I feel like it took me to a deeper level of knowing, to be honest with you, because sometimes you have to frame your circumstances. So as it relates to what happened with Sarah, for those who don't know, she was in an accident, and she fractured her neck in several places. And I'll be honest with you, I was devastated. But I had to reframe it. I could look at it as, hey, this horrible thing happened to my wife.

How could that happen? or I could reframe what I know about it and say, this wasn't a doomsday. This was the day that God delivered her. So it taught me how sometimes knowing is not about what happened, but learning to reframe your circumstances so that you can move forward with gratitude instead of being depressed. You know, we hear that scripture all the time, right?

Psalm 4610, you know, be still and know that I am God. Like you start to book called Be Still and Know, right? When you're still, what are you trying to know? You know what I mean? When you're in that moment, What are you trying to know? I think you're trying to perceive truth. So we live in an attention economy, as you know.

So every day that you get up in the morning, you got 10,000 companies vying for your decision, literally vying for your next step. And so waking up is warfare, to be honest with you, because everybody's trying to get you to move. And so what Steelers will do, and for me, and I'm going to throw this out here, leave that phone alone for the first 10, 15 minutes of the day,

right? Because that warfare is coming through that, phone and you say I need to see what time it is get a clock what happened to the old school digital clock but what you're trying to tap into is truth because I don't even know what's true I got so much manipulation coming at me from marketers big tech everybody so I need to get still you know tap into what I know like for me I love Psalm 23 and 1 and it says the Lord is my shepherd I have no lack or I shall not want I have no lack that's stillness right because now I'm not not in this race to get or this sense of I'm about to miss out on something and I can get still

and really sense what God might be trying to bring into my spirit. The clarity that I need. If you slow down, you can speed up with accuracy. What about when you're gotten to that place of certainty, right? And then you're doing new things or something major happens, like, you know, what happened to Pastor Sarah or even something positive happens. And now things are speeding up again and you don't have the time to really sit and be still? How do you be still while not having the time to really do it? The truth of the matter is there are going to be seasons that go really, really, really fast. And you've got to know that, especially in our world.

You know, stuff moves fast and you have to move fast. Some doors are only open for a short window of time. That means that when you have a chance to be still, you've got to take it. Because there's nothing wrong with going fast. Fast is actually a good thing. Velocity, you need that velocity, but you just have to make certain that you have enough equity of stillness so that you have clarity. Ain't nothing wrong with running

as long as you're running accurately. You know, a lot of people think they know themselves and still move wrong. How do you know when you really know and when you're just lying to yourself? Ooh, that's wonderful. Self-awareness is everything. In the book, I talk about misknowing

and how sometimes we do feel like we're knowing something, but what is shaping your knowing? Like, for example, in that chapter called misknowing, I talk about trauma, secret symptom, and the best way to illustrate this is to tell you a story. So we were going out of the country and my 16-year-old daughter, she was 14 at the time, told me that she told her friends at school that I was, that we were going out of the country. I'm like, Kinsey, don't be telling them that. They might know that we're gone and break into our house and rob us.

Now, wait a minute, it is real, but we're talking about little Becky. Little Becky. Little Becky might have a brother. I was going to be a little Becky brother. But it comes from your, how you, what you grew up around. But, but it's ridiculous, though. And Sarah had to pull my car. She was like, so, so baby, hold on.

Let's do the math here. You're saying that little Becky is going to get past the guards. She's going to scale the fence. Get past the security cameras. And rob us blind. And I had to laugh. But it was real to me. That's the watch in you, man.

That's the watch of me. You're from watch, brother. But look, but it's true. But I don't live that no more. I'm very far away. So I'm calling it wisdom, but it's not really wisdom. It's worry. And now I'm putting that worry on my kids.

They don't know nothing about no getting robbed and home evasion. So I'm imparting. I'm imparting an experience that I worked hard to make sure that they didn't have. But that's that misknowing. So what you have to do is, look, I believe in therapy. You know, I believe in, like, therapy. Know what's going on. Know why you think what you think.

There's a concept called metacognition. And it basically means thinking about your thinking, not just thinking, but thinking processing. How did I get to this thought? They say that's one of the highest forms of intelligence being able to think about your own thinking. Yes, absolutely. But is that really worrying or is that wisdom, right? Because we're dads. But you also want to teach.

We know things that our wives and kids don't know. Right. You want to teach because you're not always going to be here. So you want your daughter to, of course, be free, of course feel away. but you also wanted to keep that eye open that she might not know because you were from a different place where she grew up. You know, I grew up in Queens, but I grew up in Queens. I never had a home invasion. I grew up in Jersey.

I've had two. You see what I'm saying? And I've had security to dogs. It's just that equal moment. So you have to teach them to move differently. You know what I mean? So I don't know if worrying is a little bit of worry and wisdom, though. It is.

But, well, my daughter who has never been to Watts, who has never been, I'm talking like Ella now, who's never been to Wats, who's never been to anything. other than safety, wakes up saying, Dad, I'm scared. Something's wrong. Because there is a, you're right, there's a fine line between wisdom and fear, but fear is debilitating. Baby girl, you're 10 years old,

you ain't got nothing to be afraid of. You know, go live. Like, Dream does an innocent stuff you want to protect. So now, don't get me wrong. I have the sit downs with my boys about getting pulled over and all that kind of stuff, but I have to make sure that I am not sowing into them the pain of my experience.

I get what you said. At the expense of their innocence. That's the hardest part, right? Especially as a father because you don't want to pass that trauma into them, right? But it's like you still want them to be aware too. And knowing. But not traumatized. Yeah.

I get what you said. And that's hard. So we've learned to handle it. So, you know, we've experienced all that. So we know how to navigate it. But a child, they don't know how to navigate that. Like I'm putting ideas in their mind, scary ideas in their mind that they have no context for with the exception.

than me telling them that. So I would rather than be free, I don't want them to be stupid. I don't want them to be unwise, but I have to really manage how I present something to them. What was your daughter's response when you told her that though?

Like, no, you know, she looked at me like, she looked at me like I was crazy. Okay. She's like, really? Like, Becky is really gonna. Becky's a burglar? That's not what she said she wanted to be in class. So then in turn, did you explain,

like where you were coming from or like, I'm tripping? You know what I mean? Like, what happened in that moment? I probably need to have a fight. follow-up conversation. I was so embarrassed because Sarah pulled my car. She's like, Terran, like, come on, dog. Enough is, look, I realize you want to, you don't want to see with you back to the door. That's great. I get that, but come on, dog. Becky,

I get it. Becky got a big brother. That smoked weed. They hang up with the homies. That look-in-law come up. And it's just like, yo, you know the Robbins just went out on vacation, you know what I mean? Becky, where they live again? Where do they keep that key, Becky? Hey. Is knowing yourself a destination or a daily practice? Ooh, it's a daily practice because, you know, you're unfolding. And then, you know, it's like, and then the more you grow, now you've got to relearn yourself again. You know who you are at 20, 30, 40, you got to keep learning.

And there's just a lot. We're complicated. We're complex. There's stuff that we, there's trauma that we know about. There's trauma that we don't. Like when I got shot when I was 16 years old, my body healed in months. but my trauma, I'm still being delivered from the trauma. And this is decades later.

You know, my son, one of my sons, Isaiah, he, you know, he wants to, he told me, God's calling him to move to L.A. And I'll be honest with you, man, my eyes got big. And I'm like, I got afraid, you know, because, you know, I feel like, and first of all, L.A. is amazing. You know, I still have a place there and I'm there, you know, once a month or whatever. But. Yeah, the church there too, right?

Yeah, I got the church there. But I, but I also had a lot of pain there. And I feel like in the recesses of my mind, I escaped all of that, right? I moved from watching. I kept going, kept going, kept going. I'm all in Calabasas now. So for him as a young man who I'm trying to protect,

for him to say, Dad, I feel called to go back to L.A. And I love L.A., but it doesn't feel as abundant as you used to. I'll be honest with you, it's a little different. But that was trauma. I'll be honest you, I woke up in the middle of night. I woke Sarah up and like, babe, man, he wants to move back to L.A. You know, you stay here with me in Dallas. I can cover you.

I can protect you. We got a lot of relationships and I have relationships there. But what I'm getting at is that it takes time. You don't even realize that the trauma is there until there's something that confronts that trauma. You know, and I had to apologize to him. I told him, hey, if God's calling you to go, he's got you. I said, but I know you saw a little bit of worry in dad's face. This is why.

And you know what he told me? He said, yeah, dad, I get it. He said, but the same God that took care of you, the same God that protected you, provided for you, blessed you, you know, it's going to take care of me. and I had to give it up. And when I hear you say that, because I used to go to your church when I moved to L.A. I think a lot of people, when you go to L.A.,

they tell you to go to one church, right? And being in your church, that was like when you were new to L.A., that's like the only place you kind of felt like we can get together and we feel at home. So to hear you say that your son is being called there, I feel like he might have a call on his life where he's going to usher in that new generation of that

because there's a lot of us that came from the, like we know each other because we went to one church. And it really was like, LA felt different than now at that point too he might have that for his own self and I think hearing you say that you're scared about that I wonder when you were kind of

in LA and you decided to get into the church what fears did you have for your own self because you did so much for so many people and he's probably about to do that too wow that's crazy first of all I felt like you prophesying a little bit you're definitely encouraging me if nothing else I didn't I didn't even look at it as fear

because I was in it up I like grew up there and so you know you navigate certain things you if you're going to go to certain places you go a certain way but I didn't really I didn't really have that fear so that's why I know it's trauma because I don't have it for me but I have it for him you know trying to protect him yeah yeah you dedicated the book to your children have they have they read it before it was published yeah and that's that's really like when I write a book you know the Bible talks about a good man will leave an inheritance for children's children. And of course, that's going to be inheritance of resources, property,

and all that kind of stuff if you're able to do that. But for me, it's also wisdom. So, like, knowing is a book that if they didn't have any other book, if dad was checking out tomorrow, and I needed to leave them a guide that will see them through every season of their lives, that's the book. And so I have, so I envision my children, even when I preach, I envision my children because the only way it's going to be effective and transformational is if I love, if I am in love with the person on the other side of those words. So, so I know if I write it for my children, I'm going to write it in love, I'm going to give it my best. And that means that the reader on the other side is going to experience that too. And that is why you allow

your daughter Ella to do your foreword. Yeah, yeah, which is crazy though, because she's 10 now, but she was nine at the time. And she came to me and she's kind of like an introvert, to be honest with you and she came to me and she's like dad I want to write the four word now she's nine years old like first of all how do you even really understand what a four word is but there was something in her eye like when she said it and you know kids be tapped in you know and I looked at her and I was like okay okay and so I went to my publisher my publisher was like um you know and understandably because it doesn't you know it's supposed to be a subject matter expert or somebody that can bring value but I trusted what she felt.

And now, you know, when I'm doing press, that's one of the things that everybody wants to talk about. And when you think about it, children are actually closer to that God knowing than we are. They haven't been contaminated by life and all that kind of stuff.

And so it actually was a setup. You know, she knew, I knew that she knew, and I held on to that knowing. And now everybody's talking about. I got content around it and it's resonating with people. That's amazing.

One thing I love about, you know, you know, Pastor Sarah and even Bishop is that y'all talk about therapy a lot, right? And go into therapy because I wonder, can you truly hear and know God if you haven't dealt with your trauma first? Or does trauma distort the message of knowing? Ooh, that's powerful. Trauma definitely distorts the message of knowing because trauma is so, it's so embedded that it feels. inherent. It feels real. And that's kind of like God's voice is inherent in us as well. There's a, there's this Greek word that's, it's only in the Bible one time. And it literally means an organ of perception. It was translated senses. And so the Bible literally tells us that we have an

organ of perception, something in us, which makes sense because if God gave you ears to hear and eyes to see and a nose and smell, why would God not give you the ability to perceive him spiritually, right? So the reason why trauma feels like that is because it's deep within us. And so if you don't hear from your trauma, you're right. You're going to be like, you're going to be calling worry wisdom. You're going to be calling being in despair, discernment. So I have to clear the channel.

You know, I have to clear trauma's channel. Go to therapy, work it out so that I can have a level base to perceive whether or not something is the voice of God. But is trauma bad? Is trauma bad? When we talk about trauma, we talk about it in a negative way, right? But I don't necessarily think all trauma can be bad. Yeah, I think that trauma is going to happen to us all. Of course.

So good or bad, I agree with you. I think trauma itself might be neutral. It is the effects of trauma that can have a negative impact on your life. You know, I learned a lot about some of the things through the trauma that I experienced. I learned a lot of things, but it's when those things have me and they begin to distort how I move through life. I can't trust anybody. You know, I call it discern. you know, my discernment is going off,

but your discernment is going off with everybody. Everybody named Mama, your discernment is going off. So that's like, the ring camera. Yeah, like, it's always going to chime. You're like, dog, come on. You know, at some point, you're the common denominator in all these scenarios. So I don't think that trauma is inherently bad,

but if it grips you and it distorts you and it alters the way you move through life, then that's something you got to address. I like what you said earlier about reframing it. Oh, yeah. What did you say reframe? Reframing it. So I got sure.

shot in on December 28th and every December 28th I used to like if I would see that on the calendar I'm like oh man and I would kind of get a little worried sometimes I would actually if I was planning on going out may not want to do that or whatever I was shifted and uh and God dealt with me about that he was like you're looking at December 28th as the day that you almost died he said I see December 28th as the day that I saved you so we're really so you have to reframe that either you can look at it as this day that something really terrible happened to you or something really great happened to you. And that was liberating. So in life, we do have to reframe our circumstances. There's a good word for everything. There's a good word for bad days. There's never a day

or an experience in your life, no matter how devastating it is, that there isn't some good in it somewhere. There's always a silver lining, you know, for God causes all things to work together for good. Now, I'm not trying to say, like, I mean, I'll be honest with that. I didn't feel that way when I was driving Sarah to the hospital, you know, in the middle of the night and not knowing what's going on and seeing my dog, I mean, my right. Canadian women are looking for more. More to themselves, their businesses, their elected leaders, and the world are of them. And that's why we're thrilled to introduce the Honest Talk podcast.

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I don't care what I'm saying. Yep, that's me, Cliver Taylor the 4th. You might have seen the skits, the reactions, my journey from basketball to college football, or my career in sports media. Well, somewhere along the way, this platform became bigger than I ever imagined. And now I'm bringing all of that excitement to my brand new podcast, The Clifford Show. This is a place for raw,

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I mean at this point Mark this is the second episode Where we've discussed crack So I'm starting to see that there's a through line We also have AIDS on the table right now So Thank you for finishing that. sentence. I don't think there's a more important

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I thought, how could this happen to me? The cops didn't seem to care, so they take matters into their own hands. I said, oh, hell no. I vowed. I will be his last target. He's going to get what he deserves. Listen to the girlfriends. Trust me, babe. On the Iheart radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast.

I love to you. Man, this woman is my heart, you know. And we didn't know what it was going to be. Are you going to live? You know, are you going to be paralyzed? Like, you know, I mean, she was, man, sweating. And I've never seen her like that before. So in that moment, yeah, you're right, man.

It didn't feel good. But that's where knowing comes in. Knowing is not about what you think. It's coming to a place where you know. You know and is stronger than believing. You know, stronger than hoping. It's stronger than wishing. It is a grounded confidence and belief.

And sometimes that reframing will give you the creativity that you need to create the outcome you're looking for. I do have one question. First of all, December 28th is my son's birthday, which is crazy. 22 years. He's 22 years old. But I was going to ask, when do you decide what to explain to your kids and what not to when it comes to trauma, right? Because there's certain things as a father.

You know, Shalaman has four girls. I have four girls and two boys. Certain things, hopefully my kids will never have to deal with. Like that conversation of getting pulled over and what to say the right thing to say, right? My dad's retired police officer. So he told me early what to say because he's seen it from a different angle, from a different lens. I've had that conversation with my son, but he's never had that. that feeling. He's never had that.

But because I've told him that, and I told him the things that happened to me, I told him the things that happened to his grandfather, he is concerned, he is scared, that that trauma definitely affected him. But now that I have an 11-year-old in the next four years, he's going to start to drive. Do I explain him the same thing? Because I've seen that kind of trauma affected my 22-year-old, or do I say let him kind of understand on his own? So what do you decide what you explain it not?

Yeah, I don't think there's one answer because every child is different and every season of their lives that they're getting ready to walk into is different. I think that we need to be so engaged with our children, so connected, so tapped in. You know, I get in the car and sometimes you want to tell the child, you know, about your day and you want to ask them, but I'm starting to listen. And so if I listen or really like, what moves you and go down there and, you know, Ella might want to, well, we ain't doing that trampoline no more. but she used to want to play a trampoline.

I'm going to uproot that whole thing on my backyard. But that's the perfect example. But even talking to Ellen through that situation probably is. Because your daughter loves the trampoline, but your wife got injured. So do you say, now I'm taking that up out of it? Because that's trauma. It is trauma. Your daughter might be traumatized from what she saw.

Oh, no, she is. So I think that the point I'm making is building a relationship with the individual child to where you can sense where they are. because if you sense where they are, you can tell what they can handle. So, like, even with that scenario, I don't think, I mean, it's sitting there. I already called somebody. I want to dug up, you know, put it up out of the garden. I think we're going to make a garden out of it something.

Just it's going, it's going one way or another. But I think every child is different, and I think that knowing them will help you to know what to say and when. Man, it's hard. But see, that's my perfect example, right? So let's say something would have happened in the pool. Do you get rid of the pool? Maybe.

you know let's say but you know maybe you know that's my point because it's a different trauma yeah it did happen but that might be one in a zillion

there's a million and one kids that enjoy so what do you decide to say I'm gonna be overprotected to say F then I'm taking it all out or you know what things happen let's see how we can prevent it from happening like that again I think it depends on what it is

now the trappelin if you do research on trampolines I know people be effing themselves up on the champalise and I had no I would have never installed that thing if I'd have known that so so I think A pool is different. You know, a pool you can protect it, but the trampoline is different. But, again, I think it's, I think it's case by case.

I think it's case by case. I think it's knowing your child. And it's also about making sure that your trauma isn't informing or putting too much weight on the conversation. See, and this is also how trauma works. Now I'm like, damn, I used to go in the backyard and let the kids go on the trampoline. I'll be reading the book and not paying no attention because I know that they're in clothes. They just jumping. Now I'm going to be paying extra attention to them on the trampoline.

But I don't even know what to look for when they jump in. When they jump too high? Like, what's like? Yeah. But it could be anything. It could be the way that they fall. Like, I do one at a time, right? Because my kids like to jump and make another kid jump higher.

Yeah, but I'm like, now it's one at a time. Why don't we find a new hobby? Right. But his daughter's chair. My daughter's dance, so it's part of it. So it's hard to just take it, you know? I know. It's hard.

That thing, I mean, again, the research says, it does. Lead of Trappelaine's alone. Like, it just is what it is. The pool. All right. We can keep the pool, but the trampoline got to go. When you got to go.

When you got shot, was that the first time you can remember having to be still in knowing God? Wow. I can't say that that was the first time, but I thought I was going to die. And I literally, yeah, I think you're actually, I think you raised a good question because I had confidence. When I got shot, you know, I prayed, you know, because, you know, that was in the 80s. And all of the ingredients for me not being here was there. young black boy in south central LA guns and shot you're supposed to be gone

but I remember like getting to the hospital Martin Luther King Jr. Hospital I used to call it Killer King back in the day that's when I knew I was going to die you know it was you know Killer King but anyway but in the hospital in the emergency room my mom was there and I remember looking up to looking at her and saying hey mom don't worry if I die I'm going to heaven so I had a knowing I had a I had a

knowing that even if I didn't make it, I was settled. And that gave me peace in a moment that could have been filled with anxiety. I could have died of anxiety, but knowing grounded me instead. I just want to get to a place where I can know stillness and know God without trauma. Like, do we need trauma to be still? I don't think so. I think, but we need to know that we need God. You know, there's a humility that we must have.

I need to need God. Right. That's why I kind of like, the best position for me to be in is either in a place of need or in a very high place. And what I mean by that high place is, like the higher life takes me,

the lower I have to take myself. Because what I'm afraid of is pride. Like pride doesn't like say, I'm pride, hey. Pride feels good. It's affirming. It's validating. You know, and most of the time,

most of the people don't realize that they were proud until they fall off a cliff. The ground informs you that you were proud. And so those two things. I need to need God. I need to have something in my path,

in my life. I need God right now. God heal my wife. You know, I need that because it brings out like the best, the best version of me. And, yeah.

I was going to see, now, of course, you're a pastor, so you're heavily into faith, right? Do you ever get a moment of being human and say, question faith, right? And the reason I say that is we see all the amazing stuff that

your wife does and the mentor that she is and the amount of people that he helps. But is there a slight second where you're driving to the hospital and you're having thoughts like, is this real? Like, why God did this happen? Yeah, Isboa, why God? So I don't need faith anymore to believe in God.

I've seen too much. Faith is the substance of things hope for the evidence. of things not seen. So I've seen God's hand for too many years in my life. So it's never about whether or not there is a God. Where things can get tricky is, can God deliver me out of this situation? Or can God deliver here if it's a new area in which I'm needing a deliverance?

So I know you can save my life if I get shot. I know you can bless and prospery. I know you can protect my children, all that kind of stuff. But can you heal my wife who just had this accident? So in that split second, yeah, because it's a battle, you know, because you're dealing with circumstances and your fear is there and your nervous system is all disrupted and you're not even seeing clearly. And so there's that moment. But then what I do is I got to check the record, you know, and I'm like, God, I've just seen so much consistency. Like it would take faith for me not to believe that God's going to cause her to pull through or any other thing that I'm facing.

And so I don't really need faith for that anymore. What I need faith for is to believe in the manifestation of everything that God has placed in my heart, like stuff that is completely different in what it's communicating than what I'm experiencing. That's what my faith comes in. Like it's when he's saying that this is your life, this is your portion, and I haven't seen that yet. You know what's so crazy? So I was at Seas of Greatness Friday. I go to that.

I'm from Delaware. I didn't know that. Yeah. So I go to that church and Pastor Sarah spoke there. She did the girlfriend's event. And we talked about it here, like, how powerful it was. And not even because she's a pastor. Just like, as a woman, I was like,

this is what I want, like, platform to look like, for people that can do this. It was thousands of people there. And when she did her Q&A, she was talking about just a lot of the things she's stepping into and things she stepped away from because of how big things have gotten. Like, she doesn't want to be as vulnerable because people were mean. And, like, just all this stuff, right?

And then when Pastor Rome called and told us about what happened, I was like, I was having a battle with, So I guess it's knowing But I'm like She's talking about all these great things she's doing Everything she's stepping into Everything she's battling Is this something that's supposed like

Just like shake her faith Or like like my why in question in it Like sure She has all this stuff happening She is like we need her And then this happens Why did this happen? So here's I was talking somebody about this

The other night Where I am right now In humility And in in focus, in faith, in love, I wasn't at before the accident. So let's just, so there's this passage that says, count it all joy, some James, counted all joy when you fall into various trials. That sounds crazy.

Joy and trials, how does that even mix? But the next word is knowing. It says knowing that the testing of your faith is producing endurance, producing perseverance, And then it says, and let that patient so that endurance have its perfect work, that you might be perfect and complete lacking nothing. So the first part of that says counted all joy when you fall into various trials. That will communicate you losing, you're losing your health, you're losing your money, you're losing something, a relationship, right?

It looks like loss. But then knowing, it says, count it all joy concerning all those things, trials, knowing that the testing of your faith is producing something and when it gets, finish you're going to be more, right, that you might be perfect and complete, lacking nothing. There is no way that I would have the connection to God on this level in this moment had we not walk through that. And the same is true with her. Like we saw God's hand to deliver. We saw God's hand to like to bring her through. So we don't know why, but we know that we're becoming more as a result of it and when she emerges you know we got the conference coming up in august and

Atlanta woman evolved I guarantee there's going to be so much glory and power and fighting you thought that she was crazy and bananas before when she comes out of this she she faced this giant no became this giant so so yeah we question God but it's that knowing yeah like james said knowing that this is going to make me perfect and complete lacking nothing which means that believe it or not, both of us must have been lacking something, right? You look at what we've been able to do, and that's all wonderful. But God is like, yeah, that's great. But for where I'm taking you, you got to be more.

So a lot of times, and I talk about that in the first chapter, you know, a lot of times you've got to go through that cocoon. You know, the cocoon is dark, it's difficult, it's challenging, it's compressed, you're deformed, you're not what you used to be. And if the cocoon could talk, it would say, hang in there. I know you don't like it. It's temporary. but when you come out, you're going to have wings. You used to crawl. Now you're going to fly.

Sarah will fly. Let's stay there for a minute, right? How does knowing change the way you love people? Ooh. I think that knowing is rooted in the fact that you are loved. The only reason why people don't love people is because they don't have a consciousness of how God feels about you.

When you know that God loves you, it is absolutely impossible for you to not love somebody else. Because the reason why you don't love anybody else because maybe they've done something to you or you have some opinion about them or what have you. But love is liberating. Love, you know, like when you really feel baptized in God's love, you got love to burn. People, you know, talk crazy to you. You don't care. Take some of this love. You don't like me. That's all right. Here's some love. Here's. You get some love. So it is the love of God that is also a part of knowing, right? To God is love. God doesn't just have love. He's beyond that.

God is love. So if I have a relationship, if I truly know God, I know love, and that love flows to me and through me to others. I saw a sit down at you when Pastor Sarah did, and she asked you who was the most important person in your life? That you said yourself.

You dang right. You dang right. Yeah, because even Jesus modeled this. You know, what's the greatest commandment? And they say, well, you love the Lord your God with all your heart, mind, soul, and stream. And then it says, and love your neighbor as yourself. Most people miss the sequence. They think the sequence is love God, love your neighbor, love yourself.

No, that's not the sequence. He said, love your neighbor as you love yourself. So she asked who was the most important person. She would have said who is the most important. I wouldn't say, God. But then it has to be me. I have to love me. I ride motorcycles and people will be like, you know,

hey, be careful on that motorcycle. I said, oh, dude, you can't worry about now. I love me. I'm going to have all my gear. I'm going to be careful because I do love me. And it's not selfish is what I talked about one of the other books I wrote. it's about being self-fold. So if I love me well, I'll love her well.

And so she checked me on it. She was like, she was like, she was the second person. She said, second person is you. Second person hand down is you, but I got to love. If I love me well, I'll be able to love you well. Yeah, your first, last and best love has to be self-love. Yes. Has to be the love of self.

Let me ask you, you said you ride motorcycles. Yeah. Do you check off all the things? You say, you're getting rid of a trampoline. Have you looked at the amount of accidents on motorcycles? I'm going to be honest with you. Okay, so you raise a very good point. And the reason I say that is,

I crashed on a motorcycle, lady hit me on a motorcycle. I gave it up. I'll ride every once in a while, but I, nah, I got kids now. I ain't riding no motorcycle. Okay, so you're flowing in a prophetic now, too. I am thinking I'm selling my motorcycle collection.

He said collection. He said one bike. I had one bikes. I was into it. I was into it. And so I just kept, you know, they do different things. But here's why I may not.

Okay. Here's why I may not. I determined when this accident first happened, I was going to sell the motorcycles. I may not because I don't want trauma to make the decision. Gotcha. I want to be clear.

And then if I'm clear, and I still feel like this is the right thing to do, then I'll sell them. I wasn't mature enough when I had my motorcycle. I was 19, 20, 20, I just wasn't mature enough.

I was the dumb one that's riding in between lanes. I was that guy. But now I could, because I'm a lot mature I ain't doing it, but I just wasn't matured. And then you get like a cruise

or something like that, get a Harley and, you know, just relax. Yeah. But you said you protect yourself. So I'm sure you got your whole arm of God. You got your helmet of God. You got your brother's right.

Yeah. I know you got it all. I do. And I love riding, but, but no, that thing, that thing shook me. That thing, I didn't want to do anything that could break anything, which, uh, but we'll see. Once, once my trauma subsides, I'll see if I still want to sell it. I want to.

I only got a couple more questions for him, because I know he, I can talk about past story all day, but I just want to, when you talk about, uh, the love of self, right? Can you ever fully know yourself in isolation or do you have to have relationships to reveal who you really are? Ooh, both, both. You have to be still to really tap. It's almost like meditating where you get still and you start feeling what's going on your body.

You have to do that same thing with your soul, but relationships are perfect mirrors. Like my wife and my children, because of their proximity to me, have taught me more about me than anybody else. You do need someone. There's this passage that says, every man's ways is clean

in his own eyes. So we have an unlimited capacity for self-justification, right? But when you have somebody around you, not anybody, and forget about the haters, you know, but people who love you and that really want for you that can see you and you've given them permission to kind of tell you what they see, you know, that's a blessing. It's nothing for me to ask Sarah, hey, baby, how am I showing up right now, you know, or what I used to do, and I haven't done a while, I think it's time for me to do. do it, but I used to sit the kids down, and we would sit around a table and I say, hey,

what can I do better as a father? And we used to do that like every six months or so. And I was like, and look, you ain't going to get in trouble. Like, this is your time to tell me how I can show up differently. And they would have feedback and it would help me. But I always, hey, sir, how am I showing up? Because I think I'm focused. I'm locked in on what I'm doing.

I think I'm doing okay. No one chooses to be an idiot. You know what I mean? So you have someone in your life that you say, hey, like, how am I showing up? I like that idea. That's a great idea. I was going to ask, it's about relationships too. When it comes to relationships and marriage, in a marriage,

what do you think people confuse most when they have this equally yoke conversation about knowing, but also the whole, like you can lose your identity as well? Yeah, I think it's important, two halves don't make a hole. You've heard that said before. And, you know, my wife and I was very important

for both of us that we remain equal, you know, no one is higher than the other, anything like that, but also separate. And we had to really fight for that because people do lump us together. You know what I mean? Like, and honestly, you know, Sarah is more popular than me, right? So like when she came to L.A. 15, what was it? No, 2014, 13 years ago, whenever it was. She was my wife.

She was my wife and Bishop's daughter. That's how I met her when she was there. Yeah, she was my wife. So that's so people, oh, this is PT's wife. you know it's Bishop Jake's daughter or whatever over time I became her husband yeah she's birthday now right she's right the middle finger okay the birthday the candles you know I think I use it right kid yes and so I think I think as challenging as it was for her to break out of this identity of being my husband and even our incredible father's daughter you know later on I had to do

the same thing because I can't like like I enjoy being her husband but I'm also I a whole lot more than that. I was more before I became her husband. So I think it's important for us to, to your point, be true to who we are, don't, let's not mix it all together. Yeah, we are a power couple. Yeah, I am her husband. Yeah, she is my wife, but she's also Sarah. And I'm also Touret. And we both have unique offerings. And the beautiful thing is when we merge those two together is bananas. I agree. What's the danger of thinking you've already arrived at me. Because that's the most ridiculous thing that you can. If you're still breathing, first of all, let me tell you some, it's not even about pride. It's, it's, it's deformity.

To wake up in a moment in your life and, and believe that you arrive means that you no longer have any space for what God might want to do next. Like, we're still evolving. We're still unfolding. Like, if you're, if you're breathing air right now, you haven't even hit your highest plateau. You know, Bishop, Bishop retired from the church, but he's more amazing now than he was back then. You know, he's moving in podcasts. He's moving in new circles and all these different things. And so I think that beyond the arrogance of it, it's limiting. You haven't arrived.

And you ought to be happy you haven't arrived. That means you've got space to grow. New things to experience, new ways of being and becoming. Listen, I can talk to path to a all day. Absolutely. You book is out. You keep going right now. Knowing, we appreciate.

you for joining us, brother. Man. We have to close out with a prayer at all. I say this is a very powerful book, though, but I will tell people, a lot of people are afraid of knowing themselves because it comes with responsibility to change. And I think that's what this book is going to force people to have to do.

Yeah, yeah. And I think, you know, we are in uncertain times, and we weren't designed for all this unpredictability. We have to get grounded. And I think this book is going to do that. But I would love to pray. And, first of all, congratulations on everything that's happening in all of your lives.

Just new book, you know, new deals, new flow, new everything. I'm really excited about the hand of God. And like we talked about before, I think that you guys are part of this new wave that God is going to really, in the backdrop of all this chaos, he's just going to continue to elevate you guys because of who you are and what you do. So God, I thank you, Lord, for this opportunity

to be on the Breakfast Club. And I thank you, God, for these, your servants. Bless them, God. Bless them collectively, but then also bless you. them individually, their families, their lives, their businesses. Give them wisdom and strategy. Give them a deep knowing where they might be wondering and ultimately wandering. Give them clarity so that they can start flowing in their knowing.

We thank you. We love you. Bless Sarah. We pray for her right now that you would comfort her, strengthen her, build her up, God. And I thank you that she's coming back stronger than ever before. In Jesus' name. Amen. Amen.

There you have it. Pastor Ray Roberts. It's the Breakfast Club. Good morning. Every day I wake up. Wake your ass up. The breakfast club. You're on finish or y'all's done.

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