The Breakfast Club - INTERVIEW: Rich Paul On Navigating His Career LeBron's GOAT Status, Hustle, Honor + More

Episode Date: October 10, 2023

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It's DJ Envy, Charlamagne Tha God. We are The Breakfast Club. We got a special guest in the building. His book is out today. Yes, indeed. Ladies and gentlemen, Rich Paul. Welcome, sir. Thanks for having me.

How's everything? It's great, man. I haven't seen you in years, Rich. Long time. Last time we was together, we had like a little brunch. We had a brunch. This was like, damn. That was over 10 years ago. 2011, yeah. 2011, 2012. Look at you now, Rich. like a little brunch we had a brunch this is like damn like that was a while that was like that was

over 10 years 2011 yeah 2011 2012 look at you now yeah it's great man absolutely first of all i want to tell you man i love your book lucky me thank you i read it thoroughly thoroughly thoroughly enjoyed it but i need to know the process of this book because i know the publishers probably wanted more like your agent life now uh you know what is what is your relationship with lebron but you didn't give him that you gave him all east side of cleveland very detailed and i appreciated that but how did you get the publishers to agree with that well this wasn't the publisher's idea the book was my idea uh along with my team and you know it's a timing thing so it was like you know would you ever do a book i'm

like yeah if i do a book though i don't want it to be a puff piece because i think it's important for people to there's people aspiring to be you or be in your position and they see the successes right they see courtside at games the negotiated deals and all that and so people say well you know I can be rich Paul you got these companies looking for the next young black guy with a cool jacket on to be their representation of a rich Paul but I'm like now y'all missing a lot if you want to be me today let's start here let me educate you on some of the things that I know will resonate with you I know it resonates with you you um and everybody and so I just didn't want to write a puff piece

I wanted to be something that was impactful educational you know because experiences are education you know people look at it and what I didn't realize and I realize even more today you know when you're going through shit as a kid like you read about my mom you read about you know just some dark days it's like the world is coming to an end right you think like oh everything is crumbling but then in the position I sit in today I'm like oh shit like those are like superpowers for me absolutely right because now in these board rooms you know i'm on the board of live nation i'm on the board of uta i'm on the board of the lacma

you know coming from this place this kid and so it's weird how it shaped me and gave me just this unbelievable molding if that makes sense right And so I think as we were writing the book, I wanted to make sure that it was not exactly what you, because that's what people would think. And when they hear the title, they immediately go to, oh, he met LeBron in the airport, that's why he's lucky. And I'm really being extremely sarcastic to those simple-minded thinkers like that. I took a little page out of Charlemagne's book with the sarcasm.

But it's interesting when you say that because when you read the book, it's still luck. Because I was always a person that never believed in luck. I'm still trying to grasp the concept of luck. You know what I mean? So to be in the position that you're in right now, do you think it was luck, hard work, or hustle? Well, I want to start from the beginning. Somebody listening might not know who Rich Paul is, right? They might not know who Rich Paul is.

Yeah, I don't want to take that for granted, for sure. Now, so super agent, you, I want to say, manage the careers of a lot of athletes, not just in basketball and football and other sports as well. And you started from Ohio, but you didn't start with uh with this on your mind no so let's break down where you came from in ohio and how you started because your story is is is crazy just talking about your pops where you came from yeah and what put you into this place so let's start from there so my uh grew up in cleveland ohio like you see on the east side of cleveland it's an area called glen. It's Glenville. 125 in Edmonton. Yeah, but there's a street called St. Clair,

which is basically our Broadway, right? And every street off of St. Clair is essentially its own block. And it's the neighborhood, but it's also separate. So, you know, we grew up, you couldn't really go to certain corner stores if you wasn't from, you could, but you couldn't. And a weird thing is, I could go anywhere in the city, but a friend of mine, maybe not. They might not accept him like that or whatever. So I always had this support system, right?

And a protection as well. You know, I think just based upon a lot of the shit that I did growing up. But an athlete, you know, someone who I didn't really horseplay as a kid because I was always about betting and getting some money some type of way. Loved fashion. But I was into sports. I played sports. But I wasn't the best at it.

I wasn't like growing up on my street I was the best but as I grew I wasn't the best player on my high school team but it didn't really it didn't it didn't deter me from wanting to play we won a state championship you know two years ago I went to state championship three years straight in high school but I wasn't good I wasn't the best player on the team by far. In the book, you talk like you was getting buckets now. Well, it depended on what age I was. I'm still one of the best shooters out there, period.

I mean, you can talk to some NBA guys about this, they'll tell you that. But what I'm saying is, but I was the best off the court in certain things, right? I loved to get dressed, get fly. I had this confidence in any room. And I hung with older people. See, people don't understand. I was 13, like, hanging with y'all. So I'm 13 years old, 14 years old.

I was 13, hanging with y'all little niggas. I'm saying today. The age was today. And so when I was young, I remember I had, I lived with both grandmothers. So my mom was struggling and we had to move in with my mother's mom in 86, 87. And then in 1990, I moved to St. Louis for a small stint because my mother's from St. Louis. Went to Vashon High School. I had a ton of family in St. Louis.

That wasn't working for me, my brother, and my sister. So my dad put us on the Greyhound back to Cleveland. When we moved there for a short stint, we just stayed in a small apartment, just us. And, you know, like that's when you're reading a book where I used to have to walk around and look on the ground and pick up a quarter or nickel or dime and buy me a cheeseburger or whatever. And I start betting guys at the park without having any money to get my jump shot got better because of that. But anyway, so then I moved in with my father's mom and it was her, her mother and my uncle Charlie. The average age in the house is 65 right I'm 10 so I'm watching Meet the Press and Larry King live in 60 minutes and ironically I'm on

60 minutes last night which is which is insane so it was just I was that kid that kid you see on the cover of the book that's 13 14 years old I chose that because that's where there's a fork in the road in life. We all know that, right? At that age, you start being held accountable for your actions in the neighborhood. And you see guys you hung with every day, and now y'all start to go y'all separate ways based upon your interests. So my interest was fashion, getting girls you know and and sports that was those are my my my my my four pillars and so it took me down this path but i grew up in my dad's store

and on that corner r and r and j r and j confectioner yeah you know on that corner man i was never allowed to be a kid you saw things you heard things that you probably shouldn't have seen as a kid of course and you start to mimic things you start to do things and so I aspire to be like certain guys on and off the court right and so I know you love real estate in me I never forget I got my first apartment and my man that I went to lunch with, he's like, his name is Tex. He's like, how long you gonna stay in the apartment? I'm like, what do you mean, I just got it. He's like, yeah, but you should be thinking

about buying a house. Owning something. You know, I'm like, well, I'm 19 years old. Like, what are you talking, so he, but he showed me, when you go in the house, okay, this is the counter. Your money's in your kitchen and bathroom. And he, you know, so when I bought my first home at 20 years old, the first thing I did was I redid the kitchen and bathroom. So I had this, I was young, but I also had this older type of soul to me and so all those stories are are in the book

but that's who I am and so that picture lets me know that story all that picture lets me know everything you said in that book was true 100 because you ain't getting that hair and bone that's in front of my dad's store by the way you ain't getting the Tommy Hilfiger drawers and you know and by then by that time by this age Christmas gifts like if I got something for Christmas

it's because I bought it you know it wasn't like I never spent I can't remember a Christmas I ever spent with my mother

you know prior to being grown so you know it was different. Miss Peaches. Yeah, holidays. She was a G, by the way.

You loved her. You eat sweet potato pie? Hell yeah. South Carolina. Yeah. You would fly to Cleveland for that for her, you know, or have her ship it to you. It was that good.

But it was just a thing where, like you're saying, that picture was taken by a lady. Her name was Picture Lady. But it was just a thing where, like you saying, that picture was taken by a lady, her name was Picture Lady. And Picture Lady would go around to the different blocks and she had a Polaroid camera with film and she would charge us $5 for the pictures. And so that would just happen to be one of me. I may have some dudes in there.

And you know back in the day, you would give that picture to a girl you like or whatnot and i was thinking about picture lady the other day and she was somebody's mother and obviously she was strung out as well but think if she wasn't right she was actually instagram before instagram yeah right because what she was doing was she was allowing us to to tell our story through this through this picture of what we were doing at that time in the moment I know exactly when that was that you remember the exact day and everything well I know exactly the

moment that was because I had said to her hold on let me take my shirt off and you know the one knee on the like everything in that picture was detailed strategically like that. Because in my mind, I'm giving that to a girl. So I wanted, you know, the whole look to be what it was. She was documenting. Yeah, she was documenting. And so when I talk about the street aspect of it, I'm not glorifying it.

But what I'm saying is when you're young, especially young and black, just a minority in these in these poverty-stricken communities you don't grow up next to people with careers right you don't you don't understand how corporate America actually works and so if you have any type of entrepreneurial spirit your options are so small, right? And then the opportunity is even smaller. There are no opportunities. And so you turn to certain things. And when you think about that, people, when you talk about how to get to this point, I can't ask you. You talk about lucky me.

Part of that is I am lucky to grow up in the community. I am lucky to have a dad who had a – I learned math working my dad's cash register and playing people's lottery numbers. And you know if your auntie been playing the number 665 for a whole year and now she get to the thing and this kid playing and she get home and 665 come out but her ticket say 664. That's right. Oh, she can whoop your ass.

Oh, you either better have the money that she missed out on or it's going to be some smoke in the city. And so that was the pressure for me. There's no pressure in what I'm doing today because of look at the journey I've walked. I was just trying to survive the day. You come outside, you're just trying to get the day you know you come outside you're just trying to get home that night so we couldn't plan ahead there was no in the summertime we're going to europe for two weeks and travel though you know we barely went downtown i went with my dad on the

bus but i got friends that's never been to the airport you also talk about you know your mom being strung out but when your father passed away you actually started selling drugs the same drugs that strung her out yeah so i respected my mom and my dad i never wanted any part of that um but as you know like and i respected my dad so much and not to mention my dad was like air traffic control for the hood and that's the one thing like he didn't he was he was a man of principle and moral and my dad was a man's man he was literally you know he's a man's man and i respected him so much but when he passed away it wasn't just that my dad passed away my brother was locked up my uncle was locked up my cousin john john was locked up. My cousin, John John, was locked up. And my mother and sister were in St. Louis.

And so I'm really on an island, you know. And when I made that decision, I made the decision with the understanding that I also know what comes with this. And so if you're going to do it, I had to make a conscious decision to try to find the right within the wrong. And I was just trying to survive. I'm not glorifying it because I think there's, you have so much talent. I think there's, people settle a lot, right? But back then, like I said, the options and the opportunity were so slim. And the things that I aspired to have and that I wanted, the only way to get it was to do, and I was a hustler, period, in every step of the way. I'm still hustling to this day.

As you see, I came in and gave you guys. The clutch. The clutch. Yep, yep, yep. Clutch Athletics, New Balance, and that's a sports apparel band I'm building. But yeah, man, I didn't, I don't glorify it, but it was something that at that moment in my life I had to do,

or at least I felt I had to do. I don't judge anybody for what they were doing while they were in survival mode. Yeah. It's just what I felt I had to do. And, again, but there was a conscience to it. There was a strategy to it. There was a less is more component to it as well. And you knew what you was doing was wrong because when you lost that $250,

you kind of felt like you shouldn't have been doing that anyway. Anyway, but I didn't even trip about it. I just kept going because, you know, it wasn't for me, right? And sometimes I've never sat in my success even to this day and I don't see you guys much but if you ever see me I'm gonna be the same person every time right one thing about one thing about life growing up the way I did it don't lie to you mm-hmm it don't lie to you so and I grew up around people that you know you couldn't talk about it if you didn't live it.

That's just how it was. We wasn't taking rental cars and putting rims on and driving a freak nick and acting like this was my car. We would never, ever do that. So today, in the chapter, Iron Your Clothes, like those same principles stick to me. There's just certain things I'm not going to do. So as I'm representing players,

I'm not going to ever lie to you about anything or for no amount of money but the title agent you know that was always deemed as a shady thing i made it glamorous right being seen being out being on the floor dressing fly all that that's just who i am that's not because i'm an agent but then what I realized was I'm sending myself as I worked at another company and I'm looking at these guys representing players I'm saying to myself this is all transaction this is why thinking about the streets in the book what the streets does is it for most people, it's going to allow you to build bad habits, right? You get up late. You have nobody to answer to.

You have no structure, no scheduling, no anything pretty much, right? And every time you do something in a transaction form, it feels like you've made money. Yeah, you've made money, but you haven't made profit. It's a different dynamic, but it makes you feel as if you did, but it's setting you back, right? And so that's why people never tend to build anything. And so I took that and I learned from that and I said, you know what? These people, it's only about a transaction.

When a talent run out, they're not investing in the person at all. They're treating the person as if they're pretty much dumb. And the families, once they take the money, they took the money. And that's how it was. And that's how it still is in a lot of ways. And there's still a piece of families, especially, and I target this towards black families, there's still a piece of black families

that would rather do business with them than you for a number of things. And this is what I learned at my dad's store. When I worked at my dad's store, we used to give people credit, brown paper they come in miss Johnson needs some toilet paper some soap you would write it down that's in the middle of the month first of the month come around everybody get they checked and me and my brother catch you spending the money with the competition around the corner that's right who

probably white or Asian. Yeah, but you still, oh, why you just don't come and pay us? And it started to seep in my mind that, oh, when they see me with the New Jordans on, in their mind, they're spending money with my dad, and that's helping him make me look better than them. Right? It's the same thing today so you know you you'd rather spend it with or

you'd rather pay them but when it come to me you want me to cut my fees how difficult was that when you are doing these deals with with the nba nfl or whatever whatever organization it is because to them like you said yeah they might not respect you as somebody else who's who doesn't look like that. That looks more like them than like you. How difficult it is to get in there and say, no, it's still my worth. It's still my value. And for people that don't know, I just want to break down. You started you met LeBron in the airport and at Canton Airport. Y'all connected on things outside of just sports you're connected on fashion and familyhood and this and the other and you decided you wanted

to be an agent but you didn't go to school for sports management right step yeah because he puts you on payroll i don't give him too much of the book away but here's what happened so we i was already going back and forth to atlanta because it actually has started here I came up on an all-women's bus trip with my man's mom was throwing and I actually you know how you go over your man's house and she's in there frying chicken or whatever I gave her she was like we're doing a bus trip for the girls whatever okay great I said here he go you know three four hundred dollars take four people how much it's like just sixty five dollars apiece whatever like yeah go ahead no problem

man I'm in the gambling house it's about 2 33 in the morning my phone ring one night and they like um she's like where y'all at i'm like what like yeah we waiting on you guys they park at a local grocery store and everybody parked their car and you go up and back i wasn't going to go my man who was with me his name mike e my man who was with me he's like yo we might as well go bro because we had just bought these scooters that go like 125 miles an hour and and in order for us to to ride them without a helmet you can have a helmet on or eyewear so you know we wanted to fly eyewear we wanted cardi's you know back then this is this is in 2000 right 2001 pretty much And so we come here and take the bus trip where they get off on Canal Street Well, I definitely ain't shopping there so him and I we

You know we hit Fifth Avenue, and we hit all the store cuz we would fly like we would this is what we was doing right and so Out the corner my eye when the NBA store was, I think it was 53rd and 5th, I'm like, oh, I got to go here because I got these Bo Jackson's on ice. I had these Bo Jackson's on ice for like six months. And we used to buy sneakers. I'm not exaggerating. Literally every day. And so I wanted the Latrell Sprewell, the white one, because the number eight was outlined in black.

And I had the black Bo Jackson's. I wanted that to hit like that. And so I go in there. So you had the orange and blue Bo Jackson's, not the black and white. No, no, I had the black Bo Jackson's. The black Bo Jackson's. See, most people would put the white jersey with the white, orange. I didn't want that.

By the way, he says that in the book. Like, you literally say that. Like, that's how I know you're paying attention to that much detail. You're like, everybody would do the orange and black Bo Jackson's. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Because you just exude him because he in New York, he go to the Knicks,

he get the boom, but go ahead. Yeah, but I already had the BoJack's. I just, I wanted to Sprewell because of that outline. Got you in the black,

yep. It could have been Envy on the back, but I just wanted that, that black eight. And so, while I'm in there, I'm in line and I don't even know

this young man's name, but this is crazy. When I'm in the store and I'm in line and I don't even know this young man's name but this is crazy when I'm in the store and I'm in line I look and it's a Oscar Robertson Bucks it's a Elgin Baylor Lakers and it's a Bill Russell Celtics I get to Elgin Baylor and I get to Oscar Robertson but prior to that I asked him I said what is that section right there he's this is very He said, that's our hardwood classics section. So I'm like, okay, hold on. Let me go.

I grabbed two jerseys. I'm thinking they, you know, $100 or whatever. $300. I should go up to $750. I'm like, but I'm in line. I'm not going to get out of line. And I'm like, you know, forget it. Come on with it.

Boom. So now when I get home, go back I get home I wear one jersey it was it was this neighborhood called Superior Hill and they throw a block party right so I I knew I wanted to wear the bucks with some butter some Tim's because that orange and green I mean that green and red will hit with the Tim's with the butters I didn't want to wear no red and white shoe or whatever and then then, so I wore that. And everybody asked me about, but I was fly, so they always would ask me about the,

I was wearing Versace in like 94, like tight. When nobody was wearing it, Charlemagne would have got on me. But I got pictures of this, you know. And I was always a kid that would, if I had $1,000, I spent 800 on a sweater. It didn't matter to me. So anyway, so I do that, and I wear the Elgin Bay the Lakers when I wear this jersey to

the club called a millennium everybody's asking me in the millennium is every hood from everywhere is in here so now I'm like I get home first house I ever bought and I had a little makeshift office and I couldn't sleep and I couldn't sleep man I'm like this is on my mind because everybody kept asking me and I remember the kids said that's our hardwood classic session section so I'm already getting it's about 4 30 in the morning you know you can't really doze off my energy up so I go into the and I get on the computer and it was still like might have been like it, it wasn't, definitely wasn't Google, I don't think. I don't know what search engine, maybe AOL or whatever.

But I put in Harwood Classics, and Distant Replays came up. It was a store in Atlanta. And that was the first thing that popped up. So now I can't wait. It opened at 9. Called. I buy three jerseys. I do this.

I repeat this for two months. I get close with the guy. His name was Andy Hy two months I get close with the guy's name was Andy Hyman mm-hmm I get close with my say Andy I'm hustling I say Andy do you uh would you mind if I you know and you allow me to invest in your store he said rich if you serious come and see me fly down I had never been on the plane because you know we live in Cleveland we drive everywhere in Detroit Chicago Atlanta everything is close Philly DC so my man Dee Hodge he graduated from a school called Cleveland Heights and when you graduate from Cleveland Heights as a as a man most of these kids especially the black kids

they went to HBCUs so they either went to Clark or Morehouse he was like my man went to Clark his name was Gerald he lived in Marietta he's like my man went to Clark man we can go to his spot he'll let he'll let us stay with him I'll book the flights well if anybody know Dee Hodge he's kind of like he's not cheap but he's cheap, you know, in terms of he's going to spend the money wisely. So he found the flight on AirTran from Akron, Canton. That's what got me flying out of Akron, Canton.

Because if I would have booked a flight, I would have probably just took Delta out of Cleveland because it's a 15-minute ride to the airport versus a 45-minute ride because the way I think, the time I'm spending is money. But he didn't think that way. Thank God he didn't. And so now I get down there. I sleep on Gerald's couch.

I'm sleeping on Gerald's couch. They get up, take me to, I get there 1130. My meeting's at 12. I get there 1130, because I'm high. You're giving too much of the book away, man. Am I? Yes. Okay, I'll just get this story.

Yeah, yeah, yeah. So, but they should go and read they still got to read but so when i had the meeting andy tells me i can't let you invest but if you work in the store i'll allow you to get 40 off whatever you buy but you know i'm trying to i'm like come on with it and that's what really started me going back and forth. So through that, those travels, I actually met LeBron in the airport one day. That's what happened. But it was interesting because LeBron,

you see y'all kicked it and became friends just on life, right? Life, yeah. Then he put you on salary. You didn't even know why. No, he called me down to his house one day, man. And by the way, I wasn't even looking at it from that perspective but but as we got

cooler and cooler he put you know and i'm and i'm showing them a little stuff i've been buying diamonds and stuff so i was seven eighth grade so i'm showing them about stuff like that and um we really bonded over our mothers though and i'm the last one to i'm not from i don't play the fake cousin thing i'm from cleveland they're from akron we wasn't friends it wasn't fake anything it just it was a fate thing it really was and um yeah he called me down to his house one day he asked for my social security i'm like man no way i'm gonna give you my social you know you can't play with nobody's social but after about 45 45 minutes i ended up giving it to him and we had

been to camps jordan camp nike camp all these different camps and so yeah man like about a month or so later my a check come in the mail and my mother i didn't when i said i didn't know how to read a check it's just because if you never got a check before pretty much outside of a summer job at the post office i didn't wasn't reading a check in terms of understanding pay period, whatever, no title or anything like that. And my mother was like, yeah, you know, you're making $48,000 pretty much a year, $2,000 a month, whatever it was. And I'm like, cool, but nobody's called me and told me anything.

So I called him. I was like, yo, what am I supposed to be doing? Like, what's my job? He was like, I don't have nothing for you bro I don't got nothing he was like I just he told me he's like ever since you've been around me it's been nothing but love like I don't I don't feel threatened you damn sure ain't no leech or anything like that and I will figure I just got to have you around me because like because you know like there's situations in which i remember one time he didn't he might not have wanted to sign an autograph for a kid or something and i had a conversation with him like you should sign an autograph because you just never know not knowing that he was going to play you know 30 years in the league

but back then i'm saying you don't know, you know, somebody's going to want your autograph. And you also don't know what it does to this kid. Right. And so I said to him, I said, God chooses people for a reason. And, you know, you got to play the cards that's dealt. The cards that's dealt to you just so happen to come with an abundance of pictures being taken and autographs being signed. And this was prior to him being drafted, by the way. I believe that all the wisdom your father instilled in you, and that's another reason I love the book,

because of the way you honor your father in the book. I believe a lot of the wisdom he instilled in you, you were able to instill in Braun. 100%. And he probably needed that father figure at that moment. And it was four of us, but we all brought something different to the table. I brought that element, like you're saying, just that cold heart, truth, street, you know, a protection in a lot of ways he felt, and a confidence. For all of us, though, like, you know, I would do, you know, I had Korms and Jacobs and Rolexes.

And if it, here, man, not him because his wrist was too big but like I was a guy I wanted everybody to look like something right and so that mentality I got from my hood like if it was your turn envy to go and buy the Jordans you bought them for all ten of us damn you know that's how it was and if it was my turn or if our somebody had to go or and buy this like they get them for it wasn't nothing like that right even when we bought the scooters I or if Al or somebody had to go and buy this, like they'd get them for, it wasn't nothing like that, right? Even when we bought the scooters, I didn't have the money on me.

My man, Mike E had it. I'm like, he lived closer. I'm like, just give me 10 and I'll give it to you when we get back down the way. He's like, okay, cool. You know, that's how our relationship, and I'm still friends to this day with pretty much all the guys I grew up with. I can't hang out with them because I'm in a different space.

But when I go home, I don't really have no new friends. These are, you know, my friends. Why was it important for you to honor and celebrate your father the way you did in Lucky Me? He was just such a great example for me. And growing up, most of my friends didn't have a father. And even though my father didn't live in the house with me he was just such a great example and not for me for everybody everybody respected my man when my dad funeral you had two thousand two thousand people there from the age of three to ninety three wow everybody came and paid respects and i never forget a man came in my dad's store one day after he passed, and he was like, Big Rich here?

And he was like, nah, man, you know, he died. This grown man, he had to be about 57 years old. Man, you would have felt like he got hit by a, it was just, it hit him hard. He couldn't believe it because my dad helped people grow my dad helped people he raised a lot of these people and and men and women like girls if they got pregnant and didn't know how to tell their parents they'd come to my dad guys went to the jail to pay phone in my dad's store when you call a lot of guys that went to jail they would call and my dad would actually bond them out so you know and a lot of ways that actually saved my life in a lot of ways because i had so much protection from the foundation that my dad my uncle my brother

laid down so when i'm in them back alleys and I'm gambling behind abandoned building or in the basement of abandoned house for me to make it out of there with the money of this guy that I know I know what he do I know and that's the thing about the business I'm in I don't come from a place to where you can have anonymous people going hoops hype and talk bad about Rich Paul like I don't give a shit about any of that. But I'm a stand-on business. And so I also don't play that aspect of it. And when I had the conversation on Gil's Pod with Stephen A. Smith, remember when I said that's cap?

I wasn't trying to be negative towards him. I'm saying it's cap because I come from an environment where I survived that energy for somebody to tell me, get the, you know. Oh, you're talking about when Stephen A. Smith walked up on you? No, when he said,

he told me to get the fuck out of his face. I'm like, you never said that to me. Not because I'm this tough guy because I'm for peace, profit, but I'm going to stand on what I believe in

it's because where I come from that energy is every day and if I can survive navigate my way throughout that and get to this point I'm at I'm in Disney World right now I'm talking in terms of the energy and the aura and just everyday life trying to make it out my energy is not going push you to say that to me nobody and that was that was my thing not because it's this tough thing no it's I never my aura doesn't exude that and so that's what but it's because of how I grew up speaking of Gil pocket why you disrespect Michael Jordan like that on the podcast I didn't disrespect Michael Jordan you said that he you said said Braun is platinum and Michael is gold.

Like, God damn. I said for me, the, the, whatever you call him, the antler. He said the antler, I think he said that. Yeah, for me, because again, okay, the way I'm looking at it is. You never respected Michael Jordan too. You said that in the book. I did not say that. You didn't say that.

I did not say that. Tell you the words, though. Okay, that's, that's, okay, be right. But you said. We're not going to do Jordan, too. You said that in the book. I did not say that. You didn't say that? I did not say that. Tell him to put words in his mouth. Okay, that's okay. Be right. We're not going to do that, Charlotte. You said you respected him on the court, but off the court, he wasn't for the culture, basically, is what you said. No, I said I respected him on the court, of course,

but there was no touch points. There was no culture. My Michael Jordan was a different guy off the court. I had several examples of Michael Jordan off the court, right? So that's not a slight to me. I love Michael Jordan. By the way, every shoe until like after 14 because it started getting a little weird.

Every game, I used to watch the commercials. It wouldn't even change. I was a Michael Jordan fan. I understand everything. Everything you said about Jordan in the book, I understood exactly what you meant. Yeah, but that's my thing. Like Iverson was more culturally relevant to us.

Yeah, but okay. So when you think about a guy like Allen Iverson, imagine if Allen Iverson had a Rich Paul. Yeah. You see what I'm saying? It's a different dynamic because I understand him. I understand culture. And I know what those braids and what that arm sleeve did.

And I understand the business that that it that didn't necessarily go with rebar mm-hmm who would you have took him with back then Nike did Nike understand it because he was there it's not like I'm sure Nike offered him something Allen Iverson knew what his agent told him you can spin it however which way you want to spin it and if you don't know culture you don't know just how how many how many pairs of sneakers you think his agent bought Allen Iverson's I don't know but I know I bought a bunch of them but I'm just saying prior to Allen Iverson how many pairs of sneakers you think his agent probably bought Reebok oh no

his agent oh yeah probably none exactly so how could you how could you do a shoe deal for me and you don't you don't have no because you're gonna get very few guys that can actually move product everybody have a signature shoe cannot move product so that's just for your ego when you have a signature shoe the goal is to build a signature business there's been very few guys that can build a signature business that's real okay so my thing is you can't help me make that decision it's now you can help 99.9 percent of the players make a decision on a shoe deal because it's just pretty simple if you don't care about the brand pretty much most guys gonna want to wear who's paying the most money because it's only gonna work while i'm playing but if you're an alan iverson that ain't what you need you need somebody that understands culture

understands cool understands product you get what i'm saying? Because you have the opportunity to build a business that can have sustainability in the marketplace much longer than you play. He still eats off the answers, though, don't he? Because it's something that his agent did. Somebody took some money away from him or something? No. They deferred based upon his spending habits. They deferred his money, which was great. I'm not knocking that. But you also could have got the money right now

and diversified his portfolio to where he couldn't touch it and let that money compound. And then when he made it, he's paying up. You know, now he's paying capital gains instead of paying an income tax, right? So, I mean, I'm not knocking it. I'm just saying, for him, it was the right thing in terms of, oh, he likes to do this, so we're going to do this

so he doesn't mess it up for his family or whatever the case may be, which you have to appreciate that. But there's also a side to where you can educate him on what you're doing and put that money in a – you get what I'm saying? Because if I'm not getting it to 52, then look at – what was he, 32? Yeah, yeah, yeah. So 20 years of that money not working for me. Is that necessarily the right thing too?

Like I don't know. Again, I'm not knocking. I'm just saying the way I think versus, you know. Gotcha. Yeah. You got it anyway. Let's go back to the platinum antlers thing, though. No.

Okay. So all I'm saying is that's just for me. I think people oftentimes want you to think how they think for whatever reason. Obviously, we know MJ's a GOAT of his era. No, he's the GO a goat of his era no he's the goat of his era he's the goat rich it's okay of listen you can't compare eras man like because you can't fault mj for the era he played in you can't fault lebron for the era he played in you can't fault steph curry for changing steph curry changed the game of basketball and the way it's played. My coach, Frank Novak, or Coach J, may he rest in peace,

the Glenville legendary coach, if you stepped across half court and shot a 40-foot jumper, the only guy I know did that was Damon Stringer, Cleveland Heights guard. Capoletti let him do that, but he actually made him. That's a bad shot. Steph Curry turned a bad shot into a great shot for Steph Curry. That's right. Not for everybody.

You get what I'm saying? We can knock those things. And, again, when you talk about the Jordan LeBron, everybody going to have their own opinion. You're entitled to that. Michael Jordan was the best guy I've ever seen play the game of basketball until 20 years of LeBron,

me seeing 20 years of LeBron. That's not a knock, because LeBron could also play with Mike. But I think LeBron would have been just as good in Mike's era. Do you think people will ever fully appreciate LeBron if we keep comparing him to Michael Jordan? No, that's my thing.

But it's because people, LeBron was the first person that did things how he wanted to do it right unapologetic unapologetically mm-hmm they wanted you to do everything like Mike well I don't have to do that right and it's not that shouldn't be a knock on me mm-hmm good marketing though be like Mike everybody want to be like Mike yeah but you know everybody wanted to be like Mike that was a great that was a great you know when you think about himself yeah I'm saying so but when you think about that shot hurt you that bad man when he beat Cleveland in

the playoffs I'm still a Mike fan I talked to Mike all the time like it's not a that's not a thing y'all argue about who's better him or ron me and mike never had we argued we we had we go on debates about different things i got the utmost respect for mike we're gonna debate debates about different things but i'm also a truth like i don't sugarcoat things and i'm never gonna get in the room and it could be jay-z in here and mike in here and and then here comes Charlamagne, and I act like I don't know you, or I start talking different.

I'm not going to get to New York and start talking like I'm from New York. We don't play that where I'm from. So it don't matter who it is on the other end. If I believe something, that's what I believe. It's not a slight to anybody. I think Mike's the GOAT. I also think LeBron's the GOAT. I agree with that. I think the antlers are a little different for different reasons.

That has nothing to do with the game of basketball, though. See, that's the problem with the LeBron-Jordan thing, because it always turns into what type of man they are off the court. Yeah, but I'm not looking at that either, because I can't judge Mike for a type of man. Mike's a great man. He takes care of his family, kids, everything. Who's your top five? Ball players all the time. My top five all the time?

All the time. You know, people be trying to front on Isaiah Thomas from a point guard perspective. They need to stop that. Stop. Because Zeke, very few guys touching Zeke. So from a point guard perspective, there's Zeke, there's Magic, there's Steph. I would even throw, even though he hasn't won a championship yet,

as a point guard, you know, you got to respect what CP has done, too. Absolutely. You know. You didn't say five point guards. You just said five players. Yeah. He said five players.

Yeah, but it's tough. But my top five of all time, Bron, Mike. I mean, I got to put Steph in there now. You got Steph at three? Not in no particular. I'm doing positions. Okay, okay. Yeah. I mean I gotta put Steph in there now because that's that's that three not in no particular doing positions okay okay yeah man see that's where it get tough I got like because I gotta put I gotta put Kobe in there too, man. Of course. You got to think about that. No, no. I'm just saying I got to put Kobe in there. That's four. You got one more.

That's four. And then, shit. You go Magic, you go Shaq, you go. Nah, because I already got my point guard. And I rock with Magic, but I mean, you know. I would go Shaq. Shaq. Yeah, I would probably go Shaq.

But, you know, it's the whole top five. I don't do top five. You know, that's my team that nobody can beat. That's my team. But then when you talk about just great players, Kevin Durant's a great player. Absolutely. Despite what anybody has to say. The league is full of great players right now.

Giannis is a great player. Damian Lillard. Damian Lillard. Damian Lillard. People try to get on a guy like AD, but there's no better basketball player when you talk about Anthony Davis. When he's playing a game of basketball at his level, he's unbelievable. But our league

is in a... But these young guys today, you look at what Jason Tatum... I mean, all these... And I have... The guys that I represent represent the young guys that i represent we got dogs man garland maxie john dejounte trey you know miles bridges is back you got you got um i mean we got so many zach levine darren fox really the best agent in the world because you really relax relax relax no you really are i'm just saying you rep your players De'Aaron Fox. You're really the best agent in the world. Relax. Relax. Relax, Charlotte, man. No, you really are.

Because you rep your players so hard. As he should, though. I have to know. I've never seen that before. Maybe, what's the dude named? Drew Rosenhaus, maybe, a little bit, but not like you do. As he should, yeah. Now, because you got to understand, like, I'm appreciative of my guys.

You're only as strong as the guys allow you to be. My guys, they,'s i'm not just representing them as basketball players they're young men they're people we talk about everything draymond draymond is at my house more than me i don't even have to be there draymond can be at my house right now that's my favorite player in the league that's my dog just i just and it's not because i just like the way he he he leads on the court. Yeah, and I like to show, you know, the young guys coming up, right? Like I said, you know, this year our draft was great. Not because we had every pick one through ten.

No, it's not about that because if you do the numbers, there's 60 picks. A lot of guys don't make it to the second deals. But the character of guys is what I really focus on just as much as the talent today. And I can't name everybody. I was just naming a few guys, but you know, the way I go about and we go about our business as a company,

it's just different. We know I'm not, I know I'm not going to be able to represent every player. Every family don't want to hear the truth when you're in a, when you're in a meeting. And at the same time, you know, Every family don't want to hear the truth when you're in a meeting. And at the same time, you still got parents that believe in the so-called establishment. And you still got people that are defined by their business card.

I don't carry a business card because I define a business card. It's a difference. Let me tell you my top five, then I got two more questions for you. Michael Jordan, Kobe Bryant, Steph Curry, LeBron, Magic, in that order. That's my top five. Okay. I went by positions, though. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

He went guard. Yeah, I went by positions. I want to ask you, when the league tried to box you out. Not top five, but team. I don't do the top five thing. When the league tried to box you out, how difficult was that? Because at one time, they tried to change. The Rich Paul rule. The Rich Paul rule, where you had to go to school and this, that, and the other.

When they tried to box you out, break that down. A couple things happened. So when I first got in the business, the first thing, there was an article written on me that tried to basically stunt my growth or stop me from being put in position to even represent players. That was done strategically coming from a place that I once was. And they tried to do that. A couple people did. That was one thing that many people skip over and don't even know about.

And so I had to go through this whole thing, the NCAA, investigating me, all that, found nothing. But the young man lost his eligibility, which was bad. It really cost him. But that came from somebody strategically targeting me to try to do that, number one. And at the time when the article was written, it was like, damn, you got them to write this article about me that you know not true so that really pissed me off

and then from there the rule from the NCAA that became the Rich Paul rule that said agents had to have a college degree to be able to represent people that are testing the water meaning that I'm not sure if I'm a pro or not and I want to keep had to have a college degree to be able to represent people that are testing the water,

meaning that I'm not sure if I'm a pro or not and I want to keep my eligibility. Well, I don't really represent guys that's testing the water anyway, so I really wasn't focused on that. But at the same time, when I thought about it a little bit more, I'm like, damn, this is not even about me per se because I'm already over the hill in terms of I made it on the other side. It's nothing they can really do to me. This is about people coming behind me, right? And so they're trying to stop that.

And that's when I wrote the op-ed. And I think it took six days for them to take it down or whatever it was. They totally removed it because that was BS. It was clear and blatant. They know that, yeah. It was blatant, yeah. Now I know books are always, you know, great first steps in the journey of healing. So what are you doing to unpack some of the trauma that you experienced throughout your life?

Writing this book was very therapeutic for me, man. I needed that. Okay. I needed that because, you know, as a kid, I bott bottled so much and I didn't know anything about talking to a therapist back then you know the therapist was like the guy with a fifth of rolls in his hand you drunk you talking to you know but today I'm in a much different space and that's why I thought it was, you know, kind of like four things. Motivation, the book.

I think it was important to give people perspective and perception. And then to allow people to walk with you through your journey and these experiences because we have shared experiences despite race, gender, whatever the case may be, background, wherever you came from. There's a chapter in this book that you share an experience with me in some shape, form, or fashion, for sure. And for some people, most chapters in this book, you're going to share an experience with me. So the timing of it just felt right. And anything I do is gut and heart, man. And just like I was texting, LeBron was texting the other day,

and I was like, man, I really want to get the artist to do like a self-destruction or all in the same game type of song because it's just what's happening today with our youth, just so much careless killing. I lost my little cousin the other day. He was 17 years old. Last Thursday was found shot in the drive-by, like 17 years old. And I buried his father in 2009. So I'm talking to my uncle, who's my mother's brother,

and I can hear his hurt. And my Uncle Kevin is my mother's second youngest brother. Great guy. Hunt, you know, big farm down in Mississippi, do his thing. And this is his grandson. But he lost, so now he lost his son and his grandson. And I'm connected to it. Like, I'm not, I don't know how many funerals I paid for this year. Just yearly. sign and I'm connected to like I'm not I don't know how many funerals I paid for this year just yearly I don't know how many you know times I send money to people books and I've been doing that for 20 years so I'm still connected as

it pertains to just people could I understand it you know I mean it's changing you know it means nothing change nothing's changing either. Yeah, it means nothing's changing, man. And so I just think, like, I don't knock the music in terms of sharing your story, but it's just to a point to where we need a different message. And that's not to not be cool and not be relatable and all that. I know the relatability thing. But it's also relatable to tell somebody what you're doing, why you're doing it, and why not to do it as well because that's what we grew up on.

You know what I'm saying? Like change is cool to cop, but more important is lawyer fees. That's how it is now. That's how it'll always be. I never change. This is always me. I can't expect people to be Jay, and I don't. But at the same time, there's a balance, right?

But we need that because it's just crazy what's going on, you know, right now. It's not even about no money. And there's a chapter in the book. Remember I talk about the kid who said, well, that's why your mom smoked crack, right? And I had it. You learned how to you learned how when you use a good you used to snap crazy and then when they would do that you would get frozen you learn how to navigate through that right and today it's hard for kids to do that because social

media is observers paradox and so if me and you got into it at school and we was in the bathroom but envy was the only one that seen this it's over you know it's like well i won no you say you won well envy only one that seen us maybe he want to comment on it maybe he don't i think us two would have been teasing envy i just feel like that i feel like i feel like he's got it gonna be light skin you be yeah you gotta you gotta relax on them man thank you thank you thank you rich you know i i support envy back in the day when they did a lot You gotta relax on Envy, man, with the light-skinned shit. Thank you, Rich. I'm rocking with Envy. Thank you, Rich. Thank you, Rich. You know, I support Envy. Back in the day, we did a lot for us in the culture.

Like, you gotta relax on Envy. Thank you, Rich. Please. Thank you, Rich. But what I will say is just, like, but today, anything you do, if a kid don't get a like, they take the picture down, or enough likes, you know? And then now it's about comments that people are making and it's causing this retaliation right and you you losing the kid prior to so i look at it i'm saying like you got to be able to get there like these kids not even allowing themselves to

get there to where you know we all did crazy stuff when you're young but like who you are today how you perceive life and you know your family and different things like did crazy stuff when you're young, but like who you are today, how you perceive life and, you know, your family and different things like that, your job. When you look back on some of the things you did when you was young, like, and that was stupid. Absolutely. That was really stupid. Absolutely. You know, and so, but they're not even getting a chance. To look back.

They want to do it. They want to. It's a clout thing and it's just a weird place right now. Rich got to go, by the way. Yeah, last question because I know you got to go. I'm good, whatever. East side of Cleveland. Rich got to go, by the way. Yeah, last question because I know you got to go. Whatever. East side of Cleveland.

Yeah. 125th and Edmonton. Yeah. St. Clair. You know, 125th and Edmonton is like to the exact Google map, boom, origin. But Glenville community and St. Clair is where I'm from. How does Adele fare in those environments? I took her there.

Really? Hell yeah. What? Yeah. What did she say? By the way. You had Adele fare in those environments? I took her there. Really? Hell yeah. What? Yeah. What did she say? By the way, it's the funniest. You had Adele on the block. Listen, 100%. 100%.

And by the way, you know, we pulling up, and I got security. I got the feds. Cars. You should. Absolutely. Right? And the Cleveland police, everybody. So I'm pulling up to houses, and you know what it looks like when we pulling up.

You know, all black trucks. People probably running. Like the president's in town. They think the president's in town. No, they think the feds are running. Yeah, so they're like, man. You know, it starts spreading throughout the neighborhood. Like, man, bro, you got to give us a heads up or something.

You can't be pulling up like that. But, no, we went to the hood, though. No, for sure. You know, like, my family is my family, bro. I can't. You know, in the book, when you were in Cleveland, all we saw was Cleveland. So no matter how far I go in life, I take Cleveland with me because I couldn't be me without Cleveland.

And not just St. Clair, all of Cleveland. You know, up the way, down the way, cross town. Like, it's just. This book is a love letter to Cleveland. It raised me, bro. It really is. It really raised me. And it would be hard for me to be who i am without the way i i grew up and i i really appreciate

the guys in the dice house that that that raised me you know um all of them you know little mo's and texas and winks and and you know like it it was my uncle lance my uncle warren you know how did they embrace adele though how did the hood embrace Adele when you had her out there they loved it you know yeah they rock with it yeah that's some legendary shit yeah they rock with it yeah they rock with it because because you know like and and again that's part of me it's hard to date me and then I'm not me right that like that'll never happen i'm not changing for for nobody i had i had jake to send the hoods one one day during the tour this was like 05 and he came out and where am i this guy's at where this guy's at where my where my saint clarence is that you know i'm saying the same jay grew up in marcy no no no i understand you said you said i'm just saying in terms of

just me being me but no they they they love it they love it for sure you get married they embrace it life is good charlotte man are you back because you've been referring to you as her husband life is very good oh okay i don't you know why are you all in that man's personal business i'm just asking questions charlamagne's always in people's purposes for the the web the internet like i'm saying i don't care just asking questions for the internet i know everybody's asking questions for the internet, the internet. Like I'm saying, I don't care. Just asking questions for the internet. I know. Everybody's asking questions for the internet. I'm just saying, you know, life is good.

Life is good. Well, the book is out today. Lucky me. And we appreciate you joining us, brother. I appreciate you guys, man. It's great. I'm happy about the book. I'm happy.

You know, I'm just in a good space, man. You know, I never get too high or too low about anything. And I don't really sit in my success. So I'm just in a good space man you know I got I never get too high too low about anything and I don't really sit in my success so I'm just just grinding man this is a fantastic read mm-hmm I think everybody should go out there and get lucky me and it was funny cuz everybody remember they was talking about when you supposed to have a movie about your life yeah and everybody was saying like why would rich Paul have a movie about his life this right here will let you know why he needs a movie about his life. But congrats to y'all too, man. How long y'all been on now?

13 years. About to be 14. Yep. Crazy. Starting a lot of shit. A lot of shit started with you, Charlotte Mayne. I agree. You gotta leave people alone, man. I have.

I agree. You've definitely matured. Absolutely. You've gotten better. You see a therapist? Absolutely. I started going to therapy in 2016. And that's when it changed.

Yep. Because prior to that, you was. Yeah, we was menaces. And me and Rich used to argue about stuff. Like, I'm not going to bring no fight in, but we used to have some good conversations. Yeah. I miss those conversations. We need to do that more often.

Absolutely. Now, I miss those conversations because I like to debate. It's all good. Absolutely. He needs a light-skinned therapist. That's what he needs to stay up to light-skinned brothers, man. See? I mean, you know.

Rich, you was Nino Brown. Cut it out. Stop it. All right. Cut it out. It's Rich Paul. It's The Breakfast Club. Good morning.

Wake that ass up early in the morning. The Breakfast Club. Hey guys, I'm Kate Max. You might know me from my popular online series, The Running Interview Show, where I run with celebrities, athletes, entrepreneurs, and more. After those runs, the conversations keep going. That's what my podcast, Post Run High, is all about.

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