The Breakfast Club - INTERVIEW: Russ on Ego, Independence, Living in the Moment, New Movie + More

Episode Date: September 4, 2026

Today on The Breakfast Club, Russ on Ego, Independence, Living in the Moment, New Movie. Listen For More!  YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@BreakfastClubPower1051FMSee omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

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On the new podcast, Solita, we share the messy reality of traveling alone as a woman. I can wait four hours for the next bus or this random dude is offering me a ride on his motorcycle. I chose option B. I'm Julie Pinero, and I travel by myself because it's a rare space where I can say yes without asking anyone else first. I'm on a mission to reclaim the word Solita, trading the pity for possibility. Listen to Solita on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Hey, this is Hayes Davenport and Sean Clements. We host the podcast Hollywood Handbook. Each week we talk to someone in show business and try to help them with their careers and see what they have to offer us.

Everyone has a good time and no one gets mad at their publicists for letting them do our show. We've had a lot of great guests like Sarah Sherman, Adam Scott, Danny McBride, Ben Stillard and a lot of other big shots that wouldn't be where they are without us. Listen to Hollywood Handbook on the IHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. You're all finished or y'all's done. Yes, it's the world's most dangerous

to breakfast club. DJ Envy, Just Hilarious. Shalomaine the God, envy is on vacation, but L.L. Coobe is here, Lauren La Rosa. And we got a special guest, man. You know him is one of the biggest independent artists out, if not the biggest. But now he's about to be a movie star.

Come on. Russ, what's up, my brother? What up, man. You know, it's funny, you've spent like a whole career building a system where you're the boss. So what's it like walking on a movie set? Well, nobody gives a damn that you rush. Okay, you got a director, you got to hurry up and wait. You got to hit line.

Somebody else wrote it. You got to surrender complete control. You know, surprisingly, it was one of the most just fulfilling experiences because of all those things you said, like it wasn't all on me. You know what I mean? I got to finally sort of just show up on X-Marx. spot and just do your part and everyone else is handling like the logistics and it was nice man and just to be part of a community it it gave me such a contrast with my music career and it made me realize how lonely my music career has been and just how like isolated I've been in my music career and it was man

I was sending voice memos at the end of it like bawling my eyes out to the director and the cast some people responded some people did not but uh that's interesting you yeah You feel isolated as an artist. Well, yeah, you got to think, right? It's like I go downstairs in my house, in my studio, and sit there by myself and make a lot of songs, right? And it's awesome, and I love it. Granted, like earlier on, I was maybe, you know,

in the studio with more people because my boy, Bugis, it was in his house. But for the most part of the last five, six years, it's just been me Dolo in the basement in the studio, and it's been great. But going on a movie set and it's, you know, 100 people, and we're all, like, here to do this one thing. sense of community.

Yeah, it was so incredible because you just, you know you're not by yourself in this thing. It's not just you going through what you're going through. You guys are all kind of going through the same quote-unquote struggle. It was just so beautiful. A lot of support. Yeah, and I was like, wow, I need to create this in my music career. I wonder if you being independent calls that.

You know, you see a lot of these guys that signed the majors. It seems like it's a lot of camaraderie. Like maybe because you're independent, they're like, you know what? Let's keep him over there because. No, it was personal choice. Okay, okay. Yeah. was user error.

You don't like the love book. Well, no, it was just like, fuck all you. No, it was just what it was, well, I don't need anyone to make a song, so I'll just make the songs by myself. You know what I mean? I didn't understand the value really of collaboration, I guess, in a sense. Like, it's not that I haven't collaborated with people, but a studio session to me is so spiritual and private and vulnerable.

I love that. That I don't want people around. Like, don't watch me while I'm recording. Like, beat it. You know what I mean? So for me, that was kind of the mindset. But after doing the movie, I'm way more open to, you know, getting in the studio with people and just having fun doing

and trying to make one thing with a bunch of people. Now, do you know people like that other people like yourself that has to, like where, how you describe the creative process of making music, right? Yeah. It's so spiritual. It's like you have to allow yourself to be vulnerable. Like, do you know other people like that?

No, it's a shame. I feel like artists, we just don't talk to each other. Maybe I don't talk to people. We haven't heard us come appearance. Yeah. That's all I'm getting into the first life. How do you make friends? You don't see.

You don't see. How does one make friends as an adult? I know. He's been around people that like it's like it's like it fills you up a bit. But you don't be, there's nobody you watch right now just their like creative process and how they roll out their stuff and you like, yo, like I see that. Like I fuck well. Like rollouts, yeah. But as far as like there, I feel like we don't get that much insight anymore as like studio sessions.

I don't know. Growing up, I used to always watch. watch like, you know, this artist in the studio. Like vlogs and stuff. Yeah, like artists would put out documentaries of the making of their album and who are in the studio. I feel like we don't get that anymore. So I don't know what people's process really is, you know.

And I feel like people are private and protective over their process, which is understandable. There's different, definitely different days days. That's interesting. I feel like we see so much in a process just on social media. I feel like everything is part of the process. Well, yeah, but if you think about, a lot of that is like they're by themselves in the room.

Yeah. You know what I mean? They're sitting there with the guitar. Yeah. Showing the process of being isolated in their bedroom writing a song. So I don't know. I mean, again, I think earlier on in my career when it was like, you know, let's get hammered in the studio and smoke weed. And that was easier to be around people in the studio because you're lowering your inhibitions kind of.

But now it's like I try to be sober in the studio. So with that, it's a little bit more uncomfortable if there was people there. Because like, this is my place to get. weird and confront whatever's going on internally. You know what I mean? So, like, I don't need judgy eyes. Yeah. You know what I mean?

Like, get out of here. Are you an introvert? Are you an introvert? What you say? I think I'm a extroverted introvert. You know what I mean? Yep. That's me. Yeah.

Yeah. It's tough. Like, I like people, but then... I'm with you. Yeah. Like, I need an hour and then I'm out, you know? Why have they named the elephant and the writer? So it comes from this,

The Elephant and the Rider I got introduced to it via therapy and I don't know if you guys are familiar with it but it's incredible man

it just like kind of just explains the relationship between your conscious system which is the rider kind of like your brain and then your automatic system

the elephant is like when they chained the elephant when the elephant was chained I don't know I don't think so oh come on yeah but

it's basically like the world teaches the elephant the elephant adapts and then the rider inherits the consequences. You know what I mean? So for me, an example is like, okay, well, earlier on in my childhood, my system, learn to like scan for threats and watch everything super closely and, you know, because it's like we need to be aware of any trouble that's on the way in order to feel safe.

but like 30 years later, the rider in my adult brain is like, why can't you relax? And the elephant is like, because I'm doing the job that you needed me to do all those years ago. So it's like the goal to me is integration. It's not like control. It's not, you know, your brain or the rider telling the elephant do as I say. It's more so understanding like, okay, what is happening right now? And is this from before or is it right now?

You know what I mean? If what I'm feeling is actually just decades old of information, then I need to understand that instead of like running around in present day time trying to make sense of what my body's feeling when my body's really reacting to something from 30 years ago. It's thinking that that's happening right now. It's like how people do it traumatic experience. Yeah, it's somatic. It's in your body.

Yeah. It's interesting to hear you say that because I've watched a lot of your interviews where you talk about like your process with music and just throwing things out there. and almost not needing approval by people, just letting things just do what it wants to do. It sounds like you're almost working backwards from that now and kind of releasing control a little bit. Even though you've always seemed a little free, this seems like a different era of like you're kind of open a little bit more.

Well, I think I'm confronting things I never was willing to confront, you know? And I think to be honest, I think as much as I wanted to believe I wasn't chasing the approval of people, I was. I kind of grew up with my dad being the authority. and then I outsourced the authority to the public. Oh, wow, okay. You know what I mean?

I could see that. Like, I replaced my dad with the public. Yeah, yeah, yeah. You cared about what your dad thought. Right. You cared about what the public thing. Well, and I was scared of getting in trouble with my dad. Scared of being, you know, making a mistake to my dad.

Now I'm scared of making a mistake to the public and getting in trouble by the public. Like, it's like I've made the public, the authority, which makes sense because as a musician, you do, unfortunately, like, from an economic standpoint, live and die by, do people like you or not? Yeah, validation. You know what I mean? Like, I've always said with sports, it's so finite. It's like, you can hate that NBA player, but if he averages 20 and 10, you can't say he's, it doesn't matter. He's still going to get a job. You know what I mean? You're not affecting his finances, but as a musician or public figure, it's like, if the public says we don't like you, it's kind of, gets a little sketchy.

Yeah. You know, I want to go back to the parable you was talking about the elephant and the writer because there was another one called the elephant in the steak. Interesting. And it was a baby elephant and the baby elephant was tied to a heavy stake with a very strong chain, right? And it would struggle to escape. But, you know, it's too weak because it's a baby elephant.

So eventually it just gives up. And then as the animal grew to an adult, they switched the chain with just like this little fragile rope and a steak. And it wouldn't move. The elephant never tried to pull away. because mentally it was thinking about his past failures and it just thought escape was impossible. Wow.

That's real. Maybe I should change the title. No, I like that. That one's good. What did acting expose that music allowed you to hide? Wow. Acting requires you to have immediate access to things that you're not immediately feeling.

You know what I mean? Yeah, yeah, yeah. With music, I'm only going to record this emotional song because I'm experiencing these emotions right now. So I'm not like trying to perform it. Acting is like, be sad now. It's like, you know, so that was, it was a different level to answer your question.

It required me to have more empathy because I had to have empathy for what the character was going through. It didn't matter if I, Russell Vitale, was scared in the moment. It's like the character. and how can you empathize with where the character is and his story and all that. So all the acting class I was taking,

they were just emphasizing empathy is a huge, huge part of it. I saw the movie long time ago. Oh, yeah? Like last year sometime. For real. Oh, so you didn't see it with all of its sound and everything. I don't know.

Yeah, I don't know. I don't know what cut I saw, but I remember your character was viewed as a troublemaker. And people thought he was the one, he was the primary suspect when shit started going wrong. And it just made me think, Have you ever felt like people decided who Russ was before actually getting to know you? Yeah.

But that comes with the territory. You know what I mean? That's also like I have to take some accountability for that. You know, it's like if you want to publicly, you know, make these bold stances and just, you know, when you put yourself out there, you have to be prepared for some people to be like, I don't like it. I don't like this. You know what I mean? I don't like your voice.

I don't like your body language. I don't like anything. So it is what it is, you know. I think you being the rage against the machine guy and then hearing you right now, I think any human can understand where you're coming from and where you're arriving right now, though. And I saw you tweet that like you're trying to be more vulnerable with this project. Yeah. And I think that this is like a good side for people to see because when I did listen to you speak before,

I always felt like your experience was like really jaded. But I didn't know you though. I was just like, yo, he'd been real hurt. Somebody effed him over. But he makes good music and he has fans. so he's going to be fine. Yeah. But it did seem like you were always, like, upset at, like, what was happening to you.

Like, you weren't successful in your own right, but you were. Yeah, no, it's a good point. Yeah, I was upset that I wasn't getting applauded the way I thought I deserved to be applauded. But that's because my own internal applause was not loud enough. You know what I mean? I couldn't hear myself cheering for me. I just heard, you know, the lack of applause. Yeah.

You know what I mean? And it's like, have you taken a second to clap for yourself at all? Or you just focused on who's not clapping for you? That early on was what I was focused on. Because I think I had a very, like, rigid idea of how I wanted my career to go and look like and all these things. And, you know, naturally, it's not going to go the exact way you see it. And then when it's not going exactly how you think and you feel like, you know, Oh, well, anything I think, though, comes true.

My mind is so powerful. But why isn't it going the way I want? You start, there really just begins to be just this massive conflict internally and externally. At what point does independence become ego, meaning like, you know, I can do everything myself mentality. Is that ever prevents you from accepting help that could probably take you further? And I'm thinking about that because what you're saying about your experience on the movie said. Yeah. I think independence becomes ego when you are not.

honest with what you can actually manage. You know what I mean? I think a lot of people, like, they look at independence and they're, they don't understand that it's like, okay, well, you're running the label now. You know what I mean? Like, I run my label. It's just me, though. You know what I mean?

But for example, it's like, are you prepared to tell the artist you that, like, you're spending too much money? You know what I mean? Right. I got to have those talks with myself of like, you're over budget. But then artist me is like, you don't get the vision. It's like, you know what I mean? Like, it's about the art.

I don't care if it's making money. So you got to be honest with yourself. And a lot of people are not honest with themselves. They're not actually willing to put in that kind of work, which, again, I don't, I don't knock anyone for, like, not wanting to be independent. Because it comes with having to run your own label, even if you're the only artist. So that's a lot of, like, some people is just not for them. So I was never, you know, and I was never like anti-labels. I partnered with Columbia.

I'm anti-bad deals. I'm anti-exploited deals. I'm not anti-partnerships, you know, so. Because at some point you got to look at it like it's a business you're trying to scale, right? Yeah, and I think the reason why, you know, I partnered with them, the landscape was way different. It was 2016, and I was like, I need to get on radio. And that was like, you know, that was still a thing back then. I know it still is now, but it was much more weighed back then.

It was just heavier back then. And after three, four years of it, I was like, well, you guys aren't doing anything for me that I can't do for myself. That's why I left. But I've made a conscious decision, and I knew what needed to be done in order to just keep it going the same way it was going. Like, it's not like, oh, once I left the label, I didn't get on radio. Yeah. So, again, but it's like you have to be prepared to do all the work that they were doing. I saw your interview you did with Daniel Wall

you talked about all the money that you spent on like music video and just in general on music yeah so like at what point like is that still with the budgets it's like hundreds of thousands of dollars per video there is no budget that's my issue because I'm the artist and I'm like there's no budget because I want to make what I want to make but then label me has to step in at some point and be like

like, I think I'm spending too much money. But I never have those honest conversations, like, very rarely. Do I have the honest conversation with myself of like, because I always think, yeah, but if I can afford it, I should. And that's, you know, I've had to learn from my business manager. Like, there's a difference between can I afford it and should I afford it. You know what I mean? Like, I can afford everything I'm doing.

Should I though? One of the figures it was like $100,000, something like that on the music video that you really believed in? I've done that a bunch. And that wasn't even a song that took off from the project. No, not at all. Yeah.

I just wanted, I had a cool idea I wanted to do. No, that's right. But again, that was like, I remember being on Columbia and having those same kind of ideas and being like, I want to shoot a video to this song

off the album, song number eight, that nobody, you know, it's just my favorite. And they're like, no, we're working this one. And I would stomp my feet, but it's like, they had a point. Like, this one's making. making money. This is the fan favorite. We're doing this one. We don't care what you're saying.

But for me, I'm like, but I'm the artist. I want this one to get a spotlight. You know, so being independent now, I can spotlight what I want to spotlight and also spotlight the ones that are obviously the fan favorites. So I get to do both. It's just, again, should I do both? Should I shine the light on the song that nobody's really paying attention to? And obviously, they're as an audience, they haven't elected this one as the one. Should I just shine the light on the one that they're all streaming the most? But again, that is the freedom you get being independent. But that's also freedom is the blessing and the curse of being independent.

Having nobody to tell me what to do is the good thing and it's the bad thing because sometimes you need somebody being like, you shouldn't spend that fucking money. Even the boss needs people around them to keep them in line. For sure. I'm at this point in my life now where I'm like, actively telling people around me like, I want you to tell me what to do. I'm going to go with what I want, but you're here because I respect your opinion and your taste and your ideas, and you have to challenge me. You have to. You see something that I don't see. A hundred percent.

Give me direction, give me guidance and I'll take the path. But see, I think differently because, you know, you wanted to shoot the video to a song that may not necessarily be everybody's favorite. Right. But sometimes a visual, a visual. will bring it to life and make people like, oh, damn, because that's what happens when I listen to like, Joyner Lucas. I won't like a song or whatever until he makes a visual to it. Then I'm like, oh, damn, it's hard.

Now I'm listening to it. Yeah. There's artists like that where once you see the video, you're like, oh, I get it. Yeah. Yeah. So I'm the other way around, but I get it. Yeah.

It's just I've done it so many times where I've thrown 160 grand or 200 grand at a music video and it doesn't do anything for the song. And it's like, I get it, people listening are going to be like, well, it's just about the art, though. It's like, yeah, but when you're spending your own money, it kind of has to be a little bit about what's, where's the ROI here? I can't just keep being like, well, but at least I love what I made. So what's something you've learned about independence that contradicts everything you preached in the past? Nothing.

Nothing. Okay, okay, okay. No, I mean, outside of what I said at the beginning, which is I think maybe earlier on in my career, and times throughout even recent memory that I've maybe come off like you should be independent and that was never really the full intention because it's nuanced again it's like you should be independent if you're prepared to do all the work that comes with it and a lot of times I was kind of talking to my peers with that yeah yeah you know I mean like I've talked to Waleigh a bunch about going independent and you know French Montana I helped him get his situation

where he's at now. It's like, I was more so talking to my peers because I'm like, I know y'all have the money to do it. That's really where I was coming from. I was on some like, look, we have the money now to go independent and still be able to put the song on radio and work it the way it needs to be worked. You know what I mean?

That's kind of who I was talking to. A lot of times, I think it was probably our last conversation. People were like, well, easy for you to say you have the money. It's like, yeah. Like, if it doesn't apply to you, it doesn't apply to you. it doesn't apply to you. Exactly. Yeah.

Like even how you broke down like how much Drake would make if he were to go. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Independent. Right. Yeah. But again,

it's like it is nice just kind of you just go to the studio and then everybody else handles everything else. Oh, go ahead. What shocked you, I'm going back to you, don't move. What shocked you the most about yourself

in this role? I went in there so nervous. So nervous. That wasn't what shocked me. But because, I was so nervous, I didn't think I was going to do that great. And as we kept filming, I felt like I did pretty well, especially there was just, there was moments on set where I was like, I know I killed that. You know what I mean? You just felt it. And I remember just being so nervous

and talking with my therapist about it. And I would like, this is what I do. I don't know if anyone else does this, but I would oscillate between two extremes of I have to be perfect and kill it and like, oh my God, and start to spiral. And then why do I even care about this anyway? You know what I mean? Yeah. It's like, how about the middle? My daddy used to always say to me growing up, you're never as good as they are.

You're never as good as they say you are and you're never as bad as they say you are. Yeah. And that's always kept me in that great area. I can't operate with extremes. You know what helped me? So going into it, my therapist was like, how about going into it as a beginner? Hmm. The truth. And I was like, oh, I didn't realize that that was accessible.

Yeah. You know what I mean? Because it was like, oh, wow. They're not expecting me to come on set and be Brad Pitt. They know this is my first role, but I'm going in there with those expectations of myself just because of who I am and how I'm wired. But when I walked in as like, okay, I am a beginner, ask questions, own it, and do your best every time and take it serious and honor the opportunity, meaning.

take the acting classes, stay reading the script, don't mess your lines up. And like, I was dialed in. I was super, super dialed in. I took it serious. I honored the craft of it and the respect of it. And I didn't want to like be the guy there who's just trying to wing it.

And like, of course you're winging it because you're not even really an actor. I was like, no, I really took it serious. But I think going into it with that beginner mind. Behind every night spent making the kids lunches, there's a lot of suspense. Will they finally eat the veggies? Will the pasto survive?

the first bite? Will the lunchbox come home empty, half full, or come home at all? And will you finish episode 8 before you're done slicing the cucumbers? Get Bell Pure Fiber Internet with Craved Netflix and Disney Plus from $94 a month. Price guaranteed for two years on internet with a two-year term and auto pay credit. Visit bell.ca for details and to check availability. Bell, connection is everything. Hey, this is Hayes Davenport. And Sean Clements. We host the podcast Hollywood Handbook on the Big Money Players Network. Our show is extremely accessible to first-time listeners. Each week, we talk to someone in show business,

aka The Biz, and try to help them with their careers and see what they have to offer us. Everyone has a good time, and no one gets mad at their publicists for letting them do our show. We've had a lot of great guests like Sarah Sherman, not that great. Actually, can you help me shape this?

How about we flip it on his head? How about we flip this script? What is the surprise woman? Actually, you think is the straight man is actually the one who's acting weird. Adam Scott this entire time you've been expecting

Adam Sandler to come to visit the show. I would never expect. I would never set expectations for something like that to happen. If the universe allows for something like that to happen, I'm open to it. I'm always going to accept. You know, Danny McBride fine. Yeah, it's all this fragile masculinity exuding. I could smell it walking on the

hallway to be honest with you. I was like, is that weed? Nope. It's fragile masculinity. Mm-hmm. Yeah. Ben Stiller, no. Because a lot of times, out of context, people don't get it or even know what a circle is. You know what I mean? Like, you're like, oh, what's just a state. Everyone's so dumb. And fake. Right. Fake and also not interested or just like, oh, I've got my life. I don't care about your life.

And a lot of other big shots that wouldn't be where they are without us. Oh, and by the way, Will Fairly, told us personally he loves the show and he wants to be a guest on every episode but he's just so busy listen to hollywood handbook on the iHeart radio app apple podcasts or wherever you get your podcasts if your bookshelf and your for you page are equally important to your personality welcome home this is prose society the weekly podcast that's part book club part group chat for thought daughters pop culture obsessives and anyone who thinks pride and prejudice and love island deserve the same level of discourse i'm eli ralow and every

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I'm Julie Pinero, and I travel by myself because it's a rare space where I can say, yes without asking anyone else first. I'm on a mission to reclaim the word solita, trading the pity for possibility. Every time I tried to be alone, I kept meeting people and they were like, you smiled at us. Not a lot of people smile around here. It's when you're alone that you're most receptive to the world as it is and not the lies you're sold about it. It can be a time where you push your limits, change your mind, or wake up to a new version of yourself. So whether you're a solo travel veteran or you're too nervous to book your first trip. I hope you listen to Solita on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your

podcasts. That allowed me to be a sponge and it also allowed me to, you know, a little bit more liberty to make mistakes. I will say, though, you're not Brad Pitt, but you are a draw for this movie. Like when they asked me to watch it It's like Rust is in it And T-Pain Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah

So I was like, okay, I'll watch it now Crazy You know what I'm saying? So there is some type of pressure T-Pain was so good That was the first scene we filmed I was like, you're so good at this It was crazy

I wasn't working with him He's so cool T-Pain is such a legend He's so animated too Like I know his energy was just so He's awesome He's charming, charming, funny Yeah

He's a legend And it's fun The movie is interesting too because your whole career philosophy is keep it moving, right? Like, don't stop. But in this movie, the monster literally hunts you by vibration. That's why it's called Don't Move. So have you reached a point in life where you realize that sometimes the smartest thing to do is to be still?

Yeah. It's just a matter of like, can I do it though? You know, I think I keep my feet moving as a way to distract me from dealing with what's going on internally. Ooh, they always say staying busy as a response to trauma. Yeah. Well, you know what's so funny. So brutal. That's so true. I feel like I've tried to regulate the anxiety in my body via productivity. You know what I mean?

That's been my meditation. Do you understand? Yeah. It doesn't work. That's crazy because I feel like the more you're moving, the more there's moving variables, which would then cause more anxiety. It just distracts my anxiety. It gives my brain something to latch on to, you know? Like filling up my calendar and to-do list externally

allows me to ignore what's going on internally. You know, it's like a distraction for a second. And I just think moving that much and being that active and always trying to like, all right, well, what's next? What should we do? We should do this, this idea, this idea. It's just because there's so much energy in my body that hasn't been regulated that if I can just get it out that way,

maybe I can finally feel relaxed. at ease. But no matter where you go, there you are. That's why COVID was so tough for a lot of people. Because that was the first time a lot of people had to just sit and be still. That's why drinking went up. And they just weren't happy with who they were. Literally, when you finally got to be still and look in that mirror, you're like, I don't like who I am.

Yeah. And for those of us who was already going to therapy and stuff, we were ready for COVID. Right, right, right. For those who weren't, hadn't done no work on their self, oh, my God. Yeah. So wait, you made this album while you were making the movie? I'm still making it. I didn't start making the album until after the movie.

Oh, okay, okay, okay. Yeah, yeah, I was going to say, because how was that? Yeah, no. I was going to snap out of character and then to, you know. No, no, I wasn't making anything while making the movie. I was so worried. Yeah, like every Sunday I was getting with an acting coach and going over the scenes we were going to do that week.

And it was interesting because I remember at the end of the movie, Murr and the director were like, you know, applauding like, oh, he took it so serious. He took acting classes. I'm like, y'all gave me this role without thinking I was going to do that? Like, what were you? What was the logic here of giving me this opportunity? Because they probably saw how you were.

Like, you know what I mean? That's what they said. They were like, no, we saw enough interviews and music videos and, you know. Because even me watching the trail, I didn't get to see it. I'm not a special. Charlemagne didn't see me the fucking. He saw it before I did. But, you know.

Yeah, this was a month ago. Oh, that's great. But no, like, they probably saw you and was like, oh, yo, we want him. You know what I mean? So some people, like, they carry roles around people that they see already can embody them. Yeah, and the role didn't feel like too much of a reach.

Yeah, you know what I mean? It's like, all right. No, it was not. It was effortless. U.N. T. Payne were very effortless throughout the whole film. Thank you. Norm said something earlier, right? And it was kind of alluding to like that chip on the shoulder

that we used to see from Russ a lot. And it did help make you successful. Sure. Have you ever worried that that same chip could eventually limit you? Oh, it did. It did. Yeah. It's just not a sustainable fuel, you know,

to keep trying to trick your brain into thinking the next plaque I get, I'll feel good. I feel like feeling good is always just out of reach. You know what I mean? Feeling content with my life is always like just out of reach. And like you said, it worked for a little bit. And it worked when the context was different when I hadn't blown up yet. And it was kind of like logical to think that, well, yeah, you feeling good about your life is out of reach because you still haven't made your dreams come true.

Right? But once you make your dreams come true to keep prolonging fulfillment and keep putting it just. out of reach of yourself is just debilitating. I mean, you got to, that's what they tell you, be grateful for where you are. You always say if you can't be appreciative of what you have, God won't bless you with more. Yeah.

Man, I have a just unfortunate feeling that I know at the end of my life I'm going to be so bummed that I didn't, that I wasn't here for so much of it. You know what I mean? I feel like I'm waste my days away sometimes in my head, You know? Like you're just just living in my head so much when it's like, well, yeah, because people who learn that being in your body feels unsafe, you start to live in your head.

You know? And so that's kind of what this album again is talking about is just that path to integration, you know? It's where they understand. Sometimes people can believe in themselves so much that you'll be unable to hear yourself. why I don't know I think it's a mechanism you develop because you're used to have in both you're used to have to believe in yourself

that much because the people around you either don't understand it even if they want to support you or they don't support it so you got to talk yourself through all these like hurdles and obstacles that are like unimaginable like all of us in this room have accomplished things that people are like how the hell did you do that?

You've had to talk yourself through things that were like this is not even like a real thing for people But you'll stop listening to yourself when you actually probably do need that moment to sit still. Yeah. When your body is literally telling you like, no, bro, something's wrong. You need to sit down and figure the time. You keep going, keep going. But I don't even know how you got through that though because like you didn't expect physically.

Your body didn't start like responding and being like, nah, uh-uh, something's not right. You got a therapist, right? Yeah, I got a therapist four years ago. But before that, alcohol. Even that, you burn yourself out. You spent the summer. And by the end of that summer, I was like, No.

All that money you was making, it was just liquor, no cocaine? Never cocaine. Oh, no, no. Just alcohol and weed. That was it. Yeah. Yeah. Do you smoke weed still?

I stopped for five years and then I started again recently, but I've been doing these like mushroom gummies, which is-yo. Everybody love the mushroom gummies and they're doing the right dose. Yeah, they're kind of incredible. I've done them like three times and I'm like, all right, I'm starting to feel like I'm looking at my house for the first time. This is nice. Yeah, because I'm telling you, because what it does is it is.

It makes you micro focus on things that you may have looked over, you know. It's like I'm noticing my life for the first time. There you go. And a lot of times people show up for clarity. No, that's bad though. What a turn of events for me and my brand. Right. Because I shrew for clarity.

And sometimes that's what you got to do. You know, you got to assure them for clarity sometimes. Well, you don't got to. I'm not going to say that. Sorry, kids. But it's cool. Yeah. I'm not sure.

Nice. I'm interested. I'm just scared of myself too. Me too. Do it when it calls you. Yeah. I'd say the same thing. Like, I would love to have that journey, but I'm so scared about it.

It's called. I'm just not picking up, but it calls. My phone disconnect, and I ain't got any way to build it. No, no. For the space you're in right now, it would be really good for me. I've thought about it. But I'm telling you, whatever you got. But I need to go to like a shaman.

I do that. I'm going again in November. Costa Rica? No, no, no, no. Like, how do you know when it's time to go? They got shaman's in L.A. Yes, but they're flying in L. Hell no, no, no, no.

It sounds like that's a jamaman. A shaman in L. No, I promise you, they fly them in. They fly them in, the ceremony. No, I feel like LA would be the place that they would come to all those, like, people that want to be in touch spiritually and like Joshua Tree and all that. It's on the outskirts of LA. It's in Cali, but it's like on the outskirts.

Which would, like, Joshua Tree? I guess. I mean, it's not Joshua Tree, but it's like an area like that. But I knew what you're saying. You like, yo, if I'm gonna do it, I want to do it out the country. I want to do it somewhere. Yeah, like somewhere like that. When I first did it, that's what they told me.

The person, when I first did it, that's what they told me, Everybody goes to Costa Rica and stuff like that. It was like, why would you want your first experience? What if it's harsh? You want to be in the jungle? Low key. I want to be in L.A. Yeah, I don't want to be in L.A.

If I'm jumping, I'm jumping. Right. We're going to do it. Let's do it. We're going out. We're doing. But that's what the Shaman's off-the-street from like a, like off-broadway warehouse on fucking Hollywood.

That's what I mean. That's what I'm saying. That's what your view should be. I promise you was in the house. It's crazy. But I'll tell you something. Everything. you're dealing with, it's going to be like shit on this table.

Like you'll be looking at it. Like, oh, shit. And it's like somebody holding your head. Like, don't look away. Look at it. Crazy. It happened. Let it go.

I'm amped. I'm like, I'll say this. I've been tempted to do this sort of guided heroic mushroom journey where it's like, it's the same kind of thing. It's the same goal. I'm just freaked out. I mean, like, I don't know if I'm, me. That's what I'm saying.

Like, you know you. though. I know. That's why my fear is anchored in reality. It's going to be there regardless. Yeah. What changed in your life are like, what are you thinking about, like, sometimes people get here because it's like, okay, I'm thinking about children or like, like, what kind of

reversed all of this for you? Like, what was that, like? I don't know if it was a reverse. It was just an exhaustion. It was tired of like, just tired of just tired of just pulling myself to the, to the, the next thing to the next thing, knowing that there's just gunk I need to deal with, you know? Yeah, yeah. That's what I meant earlier about, like, your body doesn't physically tell you, like,

yo, this is not it. Like, my body will physically be like, you are fighting against what is already happening. Stop. I think it's one of my, like, best attributes, and it becomes maladaptive at a certain point, but it's my resilience. I think I just, you know, I'm resilient. resilient and my ambition is just sickening. You know, I think I can tolerate a lot more spiritually than most and emotionally than most.

I think because I had to. I think during childhood, I was the one that was kind of having to run around to everybody's room after a fight to make sure everyone was good. Yeah. Monitoring everyone. You know what I mean? So, like, I think how that translates to being an adult is whatever I'm going through is not priority, you know?

until it gets to a point where you're like I can't push it down anymore right I got to deal with it you know so I think when I first blew up it was there was so much going on that it was not easy to ignore but with the alcohol and with how fast my life was moving it was kind of easy-ish and I think you're right I think during COVID that's really when it like ramped up for me and I didn't have a therapist like I had never done I was like very anti-therapy you know and then 2022 I got one and it was life-changing for sure. But you said something earlier about how we've all, you know,

like done things that only, you know, it's like people's wildest dreams. I also think it's so, we're so lucky that I don't know when everyone started their journey, but I assume young. Because I feel like if I try to start this now, oh wow, yeah.

Like, I'm too aware. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Like, no, you're right. When I was 17 deciding to go after this, there's a certain youthful, that you just have. You don't give a for it. Yeah.

You're not like, self surveilling internally yet. You don't know what, you don't know any of, you don't care. Man, what? Yeah, when I say I ain't give a fuck, right. I ain't give a fuck.

I didn't even possess the ability. We heard you, just. You know what I mean? But all of our journeys at that time, it's like you needed that. Even if now you look at it and you're like, okay,

I had to change, just or change that. Like, you needed that at that time. And it couldn't, it wouldn't even be the same at this point. Like, you had to do that. But it also compounds. You know what I mean?

So like, yeah, it's 17. I didn't feel the weight that I do now that's because I was 16 years ago It's like after a while It's just everything you're dealing with And not dealing with compounds and so And then you're growing up at the same time too

So your mindset, mental It's changing Yeah Do you remember that period when it felt like the internet Like genuinely enjoyed fucking with you Yeah They did not There was an anti-rust campaign

My boy was just telling me like I think it was 2018 He reminded me He was like, there was a list that came out. I don't remember the list, but he was telling me yesterday. Of most hated people in the world. And it was like an end of year list. Trump was number one.

I think Logan Paul was number two for like the forest thing. And then me. And then Kim Jong-3. And then Kim, I know. I think KD was number three because he went to the Warriors. And then me and then Kim Jong-un. It's like, what? It's nuts.

But I remember that time vividly. vividly. What part of that criticism was unfair? And what part did you eventually realize? You know what I might have earned it? The delivery of my message was harsh, but I stand by my message. I was just calling out glorification of substance abuse, you know, as we talk about doing ayahuasca and mushrooms.

Those plant-based medicines. Yeah, yeah, yeah. No, I wasn't wrong. That was a crazy time in rap where it was just like it felt like everyone. was glorifying just hard drugs and being on them. You know what I mean? Yeah. You completely won that argument.

Sadly, when you look back in hindsight and look at all the people we've lost, you completely won that argument. Because it shouldn't be, it wasn't nothing to be. Well, I mean, again, me and my friends always talk about it. It's like you know there's something backwards going on in society. If you come out and say, like, stop doing all these drugs and promoting them, and you're the bad guy. Like, I'm the asshole.

It's like, got it. Okay. You know. But again, to me, that was counterculture. You know, culture was not trying to hear that. It was counterculture to come out and be like, XNX and Lean is done. And you guys are losers.

I was really talking to white kids, too. Because I was that, like, young white kid who wanted to try Lean because I heard it in a rap song. I was talking to them because I grew up with them. I'm like, you guys are losers. Like, I know, because I was one. You know what I mean? Why people don't put you in the white

rapper category? They don't think that I'm white. Y'all do Russ right? I did. No, I don't think so. I had to look up like, because you're like Italian and Sicilian. I had to look that up because I was like,

Italian and Sicilian and I'm not white. Y'all like off white. I'm not like, y'all use seasoning. I'm not like Virginia white. You know. Yeah, yeah. But see, but that's what made me look because I'm like, you're white.

But you're not. Virginia white. No, because you know it's like, it's categories of white. And I was like, well, why? Where is the flavor he trying to, like, grab? Where did I come from? So I looked it up and I was like, oh, okay. Yeah, they don't put me in that.

It's strange. Neville. Yeah. It's cool, though. Yeah, I mean. Just like in the, just in some gray area. Can you cook? No, not at all.

Yeah, you're white. I'm joking. I'm joking. I can't cook. Yeah, but he can't cook, though. I can make a pasta. You're Italian? I mean, like, he, he like literally will like,

oh, you're salient? Pasta's from scratch. Nice. Sauces from scratch. Okay. Yeah, you just. No, raping. I got money and got a chef.

I know, that's right. That's right. Such a cop out. Do you still need people to doubt you to motivate you? No. Not at all. No. That just doesn't even do anything for me anymore.

I think, well, that's not true. That's not all the way true. Strangers doubting me doesn't do anything for me. You know what I mean? If there's people around me, there's any sort of betrayal in my life that feels like it's based in you not believing in me anymore, that fuels me for sure. Yeah.

You know what you feel like people who are around you, they just like, they all of a sudden take your association for granted. And it's clear it's because, oh, you don't believe in this anymore. That fuels me. That's a little bit more intimate. Is that healthy? I don't know. No.

No. I don't know people are. No, it's not healthy. but whatever do you get rid of those people when you start seeing that he said he don't have no friends

come to fuck up out of here okay cool yeah what's that you said you don't have no friends you tried to find friends he didn't I say oh I got to say he don't have people I'm the same too

with them yo what's scary to you putting out of the album and letting people judge your ideas and the music being in a movie and people judging whether you can act the album it's higher stakes

yeah yeah Because it's like, that's what I'm supposed to be good at. You know what I mean? That's my thing. So at the same time when I just played in that celebrity big three All-Star game, I was so nervous because I was like, well, I'm about to be judged on my performance of something I don't do. You know what I mean?

And so that felt like scary. It's like, don't judge me for this. Like, come listen to my songs. You know, so I don't know. I'll see how it feels when the movie's actually out. I feel like if this movie is successful, I see Russ starting to invest in film. I'm working on mine next.

Oh, shit, that's what's that. Like your, the biopic? Yeah, yeah, yeah. Not like the full life story, but like, you know, the juiciest part, like the come up. So, yeah. That's what's that. Dope.

Yeah. Well, listen, Russ, man, always a pleasure. The new movie. Don't move. It's out, what, September 11th? September 11th. The theater is nationwide. Yeah.

Okay, salute to the, Sue to the Murray. What's my guy named? Murray. James Murray. James Murray. Yeah. I'm looking to my guy James Murray. And when the album's coming,

elephant and the writer? I don't know. I thought it was done. And then I realized it wasn't because it's just so much more going on internally than I anticipated. Period. You unpacking a lot, man.

I can tell. Yeah, well, you know, it's interesting. It's like Santiago was this excavation album, the start of it. And then wild, my last one from last year was sort of this like reconciling with myself by saying, you know what? I understand I've been keeping myself

locked in this cage because I'm scared of the unknown. I'm scared to get a hit again. I got hit by the world. And now I'm scared to go out there again. So let me unlock myself from that. Let me go out here. And now the elephant and the rider is like, okay, well, it's one thing to unlock yourself from the cage

and go back out into the unknown. It's a whole other thing to feel okay while you're back out there. So I didn't anticipate not feeling okay. You know what I mean? Yeah. But that's what inevitably is going to come with like, okay, you're going to be. back out to the unknown knowing it's scary and all these things so you're naturally not going to

feel okay about it but you have to do it anyway but let's unpack why you don't feel okay and that's the elephant so there's a point where constantly creating prevents you from actually sitting with yourself yeah wow yeah so how do you distinguish productivity from avoidance making sure that when I'm making songs it's to put it simply therapy exercises you know I mean I'm not trying to just be down there like every once in a while you just make some kind of mindless shit but

I'm trying to really use the music as the place to make sense of all of this and get it out because I know I'm not the only one dealing with it I also think there needs to be this kind of content in the landscape

you know what I got this is my last question you just made me think about something What's the difference between making the music, I guess your fans want and becoming a prisoner of what your fans expect from you? I feel like you might be in that space. No, I completely went away from that space. I was Mr. Self-Help book.

You know what I mean? Now I'm like making therapy songs. I guess your book didn't work. Fucking loser. Could have swore he wrote a self-help, but clearly you need to know. Yeah, no, so I took a hard left. with the brand identity, which was scary. You know what I mean?

When I did Santiago, which was like the first venture into like kind of more introspective, honest, deeper music that is maybe sad or whatever. But it was honest. It was scary because I'm like, well, my fans know me for being positive and manifestation and self-help and click your heels and you can make it come true. You know, like how's this going to go over? You're not linear though. No, I agree. 100%. That's what I'm learning with this album.

It feels like a backslide, to be honest. But yeah, I think this is like the maturation of Russ as an artist and human, you know. Dope. Yeah. dope. Well, it's Rush, ladies and gentlemen. Don't move in theater September 11th. Thank you for joining us, bro.

Thank you. Yes, sir. It's the breakfast club. Hold on. Every day I wake up. Wake your ass up. The breakfast club. You all finished or y'all is done.

On the new podcast, Solita, we share the messy reality of traveling alone as a woman. I can wait four hours for the next bus or this random dude is offering me a ride on his motorcycle. I chose option B. I'm Julie Pinero and I travel by myself because it's a rare space where I can say yes without asking anyone else first. I'm on a mission to reclaim the word Solita, trading the pity for possibility. Listen to Solita on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. I survived nine months in captivity. and I've spent my life exploring how other people survive what should have destroyed them.

I'm Elizabeth Smart, and these are the Survivor Files. Every week, I'm with survivors who live through the unthinkable, abducted, stalked, controlled, and nearly silenced. These are stories about what it takes to make it out alive. Listen to The Survivor Files with Elizabeth Smart on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. If your bookshelf and your for-you page are equally important to your personality, welcome home. Pro Society is a weekly podcast that's part book club, part group chat for anyone who thinks Pride and Prejudice and Love Island deserve the same level of discourse. Each week, we're connecting the dots between books, the internet, and pop culture, with your favorite writers, book talk creators, and plenty of overthought opinions. Yeah, I'm obsessed. I'm obsessed.

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