The Breakfast Club - INTERVIEW: Sowmya Krishnamurthy Speaks On Fashion In Hip Hop, Drake’s Best Era, New Book + More

Episode Date: October 11, 2023

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Hey guys, I'm Kate Max. You might know me from my popular online series, The Running Interview Show, where I run with celebrities, athletes, entrepreneurs, and more. After those runs, the conversations keep going. That's what my podcast, Post Run High, is all about. It's a chance to sit down with my guests and dive even deeper into their stories, their journeys, and the thoughts that arise once we've hit the pavement together. Listen to Post Run High on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. own? I planted the flag. This is mine. I own this. It's surprisingly easy. 55 gallons of water,

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Listen to Rumble, Ali, Foreman, and the Soul of 74 on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Welcome to Gracias Come Again, a podcast by Honey German, where we get real and dive straight into todo lo actual y viral. We're talking musica, los premios, el chisme, and all things trending in my cultura. I'm bringing you all the latest happening in our entertainment world and some fun and impactful interviews with your favorite Latin artists, comedians, actors, and influencers. Each week, we get deep and raw life stories, combos on the issues that matter to us, and it's all packed with gems, fun, straight up comedia, and that's a song that only nuestra gente can sprinkle. Listen to Gracias Come Again on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Wake that ass up in the morning. The Breakfast Club.

Morning, everybody. It's DJ Envy, Charlamagne Tha God. We are The Breakfast Club. We got a special guest in the building. Somia Krishna Murphy. Somia Krishna Murphy. Yeah, I didn't want you to attempt it. I've been practicing that.

I've been practicing it for the last five minutes. I was going to get it right. I love it. I wasn't sure who was going to do it right, but both of you in unison. That's right. Somia Krishna Murphy. This is a good day. I've been practicing the last five minutes.

You really have. Yeah, that's why I didn't really say nothing because it was on my mind so much. Yeah, yeah. He was really in thought when I came in, but I love it. Thank you. You have a book out right now called Fashion Killer. Yes. And before we get to the book, Somia is a world-renowned hip-hop journalist.

Yes. Yes. What other hyphenates would you put on that? Hip-hop journalist, on-air host. And I've literally known Char since I was knee-high to a grasshopper. I think I met him when he first moved from South Carolina. That's a fact. Yeah.

And then we did this show called POV on MTV. Seven episodes. If you stayed up till midnight and watched it, thank you. It's now a cult classic in my mind. It's like the paid in full of like hip hop shows. But yeah, so since then I've been able to interview so many artists and Fashion Killa is my first book. Wow.

Congrats. It drops 1010. So order it everywhere. This is the first anthology about hip-hop and high fashion, and obviously it comes out on Hip Hop 50. Why a book about fashion? It's so interesting. The genesis was it started as an article in XXL,

and as I was doing the research, I saw that there are no books about this. And one thing about the lit space, and you know this, Char, is that a lot of times hip hop stories just aren't elevated in the same way other genres are rock music, pop music. Right. It's still sort of seen as either niche or still kind of underground, to be honest with you. So to me, knowing hip hop 50 was coming up, this is such a great opportunity to write really that definitive story, that 50-year retrospective. And I'm one of those people, if I don't see it in the marketplace, well, I might as well just do it myself. That's right. I was going to ask, you know, what do you break down in the book? Because, you know, when you go, sometimes you go to Vegas and you go to Planet Hollywood, right? You see

all these rock and roll idols on the wall and you see their guitar and you see their shirt and you see their whatever, or you see some pop stars. I't really see that that much for hip-hop which is concerned and we do have a lot of things that is pretty big but you know whether we're talking about uh you know but that's the run dmc adidas imagine like cameron's jacks is the red white and blue or cameron's pink fur you know things like that that really step outside of smithsonian right the cameron pink fur think Envy, you make such a good point. It is still this idea, although hip hop is 50, it's still not viewed kind of through that prestige lens, right? Yeah, I mean, you have the Smithsonian,

you have these like little moments here and there, but this idea that it should be elevated and really treated with the gravitas it deserves, I think those are the opportunities. And for me, I just didn't see that in the lit space. Because I don't think hip-hop is looked at through the lens of art, and it should be. Absolutely.

Remember when Salam Remy was up here, and he had these big paintings of some of our favorite hip-hop artists. When you see it as a painting, you're like, oh, you look at it different. Or when they do the Book of Hove exhibit in Brooklyn, you're like, oh, we're not looking at it through the lens of art. Yeah, and for me, just having a hardcover book out, you open it, and yeah, of course, there's like 40 great photos of Biggie and Cam

and Cardi B and all these people, but there's also history, there's sociology, there's psychology. It's so much more layered than just a rapper wore a dope outfit. And I think a lot of times people see it through that cursory lens, and it's much more nuanced than that. Break down this cover because I hit you when I told you. This cover is fantastic. Fire.

Fire. Phenomenal. Break down that cover. So it's so funny. That cover was a little bit, there were some back and forth, a little arguments with some people. So basically Fashion Killa is obviously a nod to the A$AP Rocky song where he name checks like 27 brands, right? He was saying brands that nobody had heard of.

And I wanted something that really made it stand out in the marketplace with the cover. If you look at, again, a lot of hip hop books, it's like a guy with a big chain, something very sort of stereotypical or kind of looks cheap if I'm going to be honest and for me I wanted it to look luxe I want to look sexy even if you don't read one page it's going to look good on your coffee table it looks great in selfies so I wanted this to be a book it's very much a

nod to McQueen obviously with the skull but again to differentiate it to show that this is something different it's special and almost treat it like a luxury product. Right. Imagine like walking down the street, having a really sexy book. That's kind of an accessory. Right. And it's also a great conversation starter, too. Do you break down how, especially in hip hop, how we make some of these fashion brands cool? A lot of times you look at some of these brands, whether it's Gucci. Now, I'm not going to say Gucci wasn't cool, but Gucci became cool because we started wearing it. Whether it's Louis Vuitton or whatever it may be.

Do you break that down and some of the impact that we've had on those brands? Absolutely. You know, it's funny. One of the chapters is called 1991. And a lot of people don't realize Karl Lagerfeld did a whole hip hop themed runway show back in 91. And it was, you know, big chains and nameplates and baseball cap to the side now of course rappers and hip-hop weren't given homage right but the idea that someone like carl lagerfeld for chanel was doing it all the way back then the influence has always been there

now the thing is the relationship i think very much starred as the outsider so hip hop not being accepted, but also not being able to afford it. You've got to think back to someone like Dapper Dan. He's like the only people who could afford my stuff were drug dealers and athletes. Right. Only then when LL and Eric B. Rock him, people like that, Kane, when they were able to afford it, then they become the consumer. We go into the 90s, which is my personal personal favorite era where we start to see sean john and rock aware and all of these rapper-led brands right and then now i think we're in an age of collaboration so you have pharrell over at louis vuitton you see artists like asap rocky or travis

scott very much being partners with these brands but you know as we saw with dapper dan i mean his sort of full circle moment with gucci they bit his style. Right. And only after Twitter came and really rallied around him was he able to have this incredible comeback. I would hope it doesn't take outrage and those kind of scandals for hip hop to truly have a seat at the table, whether it be decision making, design or just being represented in fashion. Why do you think it's so difficult for black brands to succeed and have longevity, right? You named a lot of these brands, Sean John, who I don't even think is an existing anymore. They are working on relaunching it. Yeah, he bought it back.

Yeah, he bought it back and he had a moment at the Met Gala with it. And from what I've heard behind the scenes, just between us, is that they are working on some sort of a capsule or relaunch. So why do you think it's so difficult for Black brands to stay, you know, longevity or for us to even support them like that? You know, we support everything else, but not our Black brands. It's hard. I think when we talk about rapper-led brands first, a lot of it is tied to the artist. So the artist isn't hot you don't want to wear their clothes no more right and so many of those brands i mean are you wearing marshall mathers clothing right now maybe i mean i'm from michigan so maybe we always wear it but how many people

had a clothing line oh yeah he did shady oh shady shady yeah yeah uh you know there was woo wear remember busta had a line dmx had there was a time everyone had a line. It was get a record deal, have one hit record and have a line. Right. A few of them, Sean John, Rock Aware, they kind of elevated where they were making hundreds of millions of dollars. as seasonal as an artist trend because when you're not the flavor of the moment and it happens to everyone, no one wants to wear your clothes. I think the other part is just for brands, it's really expensive. A lot of people ask me, why don't you think rappers

want to have their own brands now? Do you want to spend your own money to have, you know, focus on manufacturing and supply and all of these things, distribution? It's similar to the music business. There's a reason everyone still signs to the majors. It's better to spend someone else's money. Does that mean that you put away your OVO hoodie?

Have you put it away? You know what, Char? So this is funny. And I was a former Aubrey's Angels. I can say that amongst myself. What the heck is an Aubrey's Angels? Former Aubrey's Angels. You love Drake.

That was a day one. Day one. I was day one when it was not cool to be a Drake fan, right? But he lost me somewhere. After views, it's almost like that friend from high school that we have nothing in common anymore, and I kind of don't want to hang out with them. So I'll see you on social media, but let's never speak again.

Damn. Right? What do you think it was? What do you think the disconnect is? You know, it's funny. I think from day one what always gravitated me towards Drake was he was vulnerable. That was his superpower. When he stopped trying to act like Wayne or Jay, and he was just this goofy kid from Toronto,

half white, nice, you know, white Jewish mom. That's what we loved about him. And in those vulnerable moments, whether it's brand new or too much, like those are the records that made me like Drake. And especially growing up when you're in your mid twenties, he was that perfect blend of emo and toxic, which is what all of us were dating and acting at the time. But now 10 plus years later, I just feel like we grew in separate directions. And when I listened to this new album and let me know what your thoughts are I was like, who is this part? Who's Aubrey and what I want from him now is a classic album

What is your magnum opus as a grown man as a father? We know you have hits We know you can get any single person as a feature. I want that definitive Drake album. Where's my 444 moment? Where's my life is good moment? Mm-hmm. That's what I want that definitive Drake album. Where's my 4-4-4 moment? Where's my life is good moment? That's what I want from Aubrey. So until then, the OVO hoodie stays in the drawer. It's not coming out because I feel like I'm just a recovering Aubrey's angel. That's fair criticism. But, you know, even with the 4-4-4, which I think is one of the most,

it'll go down as one of the most important hip hop albums of all time. That didn't come until Jay was like in his mid 40s. Yeah, close to 50. You know? I mean, Drake is like 37. 37, yeah. So it might be 10 years from now. I will say that we love, we're Peter Pan.

We don't want to grow up. But to me, listening to this album, if you're going to give me 23 tracks, you got to say something. Because to me, usually a double album is a fail. Because what do you have to say for 23 tracks? Life After Death, Speaker Box. There are a few of these moments that made sense. double album is a fail because what do you have to say for 23 tracks life after death speaker box like there are a few of these moments that made sense when i listened to album what what did i

glean i just felt like i wanted my time back damn spoken from a former arbor's angel but i feel there's like a support group for us somewhere right you named biggie's album but right there has to be because we have given so much to this man you guys don't remember there was a time in the music business drake wasn't cool and i would have fights with people like charla may know he's a person and he's gonna be big and you gotta appreciate him and love him and they're like nah he's first of all from canada so what does that mean the singing rapping combo you know didn't really make sense. Then they thought he was kind of a goofball. Like he came from Degrassi, but people like me were

literally up. I'll never forget midnight Valentine's day, 2009. So far gone drops, hitting that Z share, pressing play, tears. Wow. Tears. Wow. I remember take care came out i'm like this man knows my life story wow start to finish classic so i've really invested in him i've been to ovo fest i covered it for rolling stone like i have put in my owl points and now it's time to pay up i guess that's why i'm just a little confused because like i i've you haven't put in your owl points i know you haven't i've grown to appreciate him over the years. I've never been a real huge fan of his music, but I like the way he moves at certain times.

I guess the only thing that's confusing me now is like... Wait, you like how he moves as like a person or as an artist? Yeah, as a person as he's gotten at certain times, especially during that whole back-to-back era. Like I thought... Okay. Because the way he handled that was perfect. Oh, you accuse me of not writing?

Okay, I'm going to bar you up. But what about the whole Pusha thing? That's a rough one. But Pusha's a different beast, though. Well, don't poke the bear. That is true, too. Pusha's a different beast. I just think this album, to me, is just like, it's Drake.

I don't see any difference. So it's mid? 23 songs of mid? It just sounds like Drake to me. It's just the same Drake we've been getting. No, it isn't. Again, I think you've got to go back into the discography, and nowtable. It just sounds like Drake to me. It's just the same Drake we've been getting. No, it isn't. Like, again, I think you got to go back into the discography. And now I'm going to sound like I wrote a book about Drake. It's this idea that what really resonated, I mean, you go to So Far Gone.

The standout track is brand new. It's not a great song. It's not even singing that well. But he's talking about dating somebody and feeling inadequate. How many men would openly say that on their mixtape? Like, is anything I'm doing brand new? And I remember that happened and all of us were just collectively sobbing on Tumblr at the same time. Now I look at him, you're rich, you can have any girl you want. Okay. And then what? Right. And I think right now in his life, had he given me let's say

and now i'm going to be an ovo anr a double album maybe one half is drake one half is aubrey i'd have been okay with that like who are you at this life stage you have a kid you want to hear more about it yeah like like i know nothing about this man whereas in the beginning i felt i knew about his mom i get uncle, his friends, and all of the issues he was going through. I know nothing about him. He like hangs out at the strip club and hangs out with like younger artists.

And Yachty's his best friend. I think Drake gets busy rapping. When he raps, he gets busy, but hands down, he can go with the best of them. I think the problem with Drake is when he first came out, your hardcore hip hop fans were making fun of him, right? Charlamagne used to call him Princess. Charlamagne used to call him Princess. You guys used to make so much fun of him. Charlamagne used to call him Princess Boy.

And that was the thing that connected, right? So then he goes to this thing where I don't think he wanted to be himself and wanted to prove that he was a rapper. Yeah. So then he started rapping. He started doing features with everybody to show you I can out rap people. Yeah. But then I think he started losing his core, which was his women, which is yourself.

So now he tries to do a balance of both, which I think is very difficult for himself. You know what I mean? And here's the thing. I want to be very honest. I love bars, right? I'm the person who listens to Jay and Mobb Deep and Big Out. Like, I hate when they say women don't like lyrics. Like, what's the saying?

I made a track for the women. It's a song for the girls. No, no. Everybody can like all music. But to me, there's an emotional depth that's missing. Because you can do it over bars. Jay has done it. Nas has done it.

But I just need to see more than, okay, I'm the best. And, you know, even just this idea of who he's collaborating with. He could call anybody. He could probably call Sade and get her on a track, right? Like, 40 has worked with her on stuff. You're working with Yeet, Chief Keef. Like it just feels like he's pandering to Gen Z, right? And I don't, you don't have to. You make hits, people come to you, give me something different. Like what Kendrick did, right? Kendrick's like, I'm not going to give you a single late an album, but

I'm going to let you have such a look into my life that's so intimate. Like, I feel I know him, his family, what he's going through. I need that moment from Drake. And I think he could give it to us. I agree with you. And I think Kendrick's album is also gonna go down as one of the most important hip hop albums of all time. But when the album came out, people was like, oh, that's too much for me. You know, folks were like- Who are these emotionally stunted people you hang out with? I think that's just Charlamagne and his friends. Folks were like, this is too much for me. It's a little too deep.

I'm like, I loved it. From where I'm at in my life right now, I loved it. Him talking about therapy, doing the work on himself, you know, being faithful to his wife, like just dealing with his trauma. I loved it. I was like, this is, if hip hop is going in this direction, I'm all for it. And think about our most iconic artists. Look at someone like Tupac. Very complicated, controversial.

But those moments he showed who he was, his vulnerability, that's what resonates. It's not just hit records. I mean, a lot of people have hit records. But I'll never forget even when Biggie would rap about his mom. Those were the moments that just stuck with me. You're an incredible rapper, great storyteller. But who are you? But it wasn't too many you and remember I'm also a journalist right so for me even when I talk to artists there's got to be more than just all right so talking about that album vibes oh okay I interview so many young artists now so why do you want to be a rapper I'm a brand I'm a rock star

oh so you don't even want to be here. Why am I here? You know, and I think that's just indicative of where we are sort of in culture where a lot of artists, they're not thinking about, again, as the artistry. You're creating art and putting into this world. And maybe, again, I have high standards for Drake because, you know, I put in my OVO points. But to me, as the biggest rapper out now, what what he gave us i think is going to be ultimately forgettable i don't know how you say that for biggie right because biggie's my favorite rapper biggie and jay my favorite i love biggie in what order um that's a tough one i think probably it would almost be a tie and i'm gonna tell you why um i think a lot of people forget how nice biggie is right until they go back and to listen to album again. And stuff that he said back then, however

long ago, was 20 years ago. We're talking Ready to Die or Life After? Life After Death, right? But in Biggie's music, he does talk about his mom at times, but you don't really get to get into Biggie's life as much. He does a lot of stuff that's... Oh, I disagree. No, I mean when he does the story to tell, and he does the

what do you do when your man is untrue? Juicy, Sky is the limit. Sky and I was Ready to Die. you do when your man is untrue? Like when he does, when he does the record, but Scott, I was ready to die. Suicidal thoughts. Suicidal thoughts. The way that album ended with that was incredible. But that was the first album though.

That was the first album. You talking about the second album. No, I named two off the second album. Oh, the Juicy and the Sky's the Limit. Sky's the Limit. Sky's the Limit was on the second album,

but Ready to Die and the other one was on the first album. But just imagine your first album called Ready to Die. Just think about like that mindset, right? And the fact this young man, this album ends called Suicidal Thoughts. Spoiler alert to anyone who hasn't heard the album. He unlives himself, right? The first album, yep.

And this idea that to show that, that's what resonated with people. I remember DMX, incredible artists. Battle rapper, charisma. What resonates with people? Prayer. those are those moments and i'm not saying the whole album has to be emo right i mean i love a good cry but i think you can have the balance so far gone had a balance take care uh take care had a balance even i would say nothing was the same i mean when he does too much i think it's called with Sampha.

If you haven't seen that live performance, please do. He's literally talking to his family. He's like, we can't talk about these things in private, so I'm going to tell the world. This is what's going on, how fame has changed you. Right? These are the things that I think fans resonate with. You don't think that Drake has enough catalog to where he can be considered a complex artist?

Like he's just complex i think he is i mean one thing i also got to give him he has had an unprecedented run absolutely oh nine to 2023 and during the paradigm shift of people buying cds to streaming no one else has been able to work both of those very different mindset and one thing i always give him and his team they always have their mind and what's the next song what's the next sound what's the next scene whether that's uk drill whether what's going on in memphis with like block boy like they know what's coming up migos versace i mean he was on it early and i always give him props for that but i don't know i almost feel like if i'm gonna psychoanalyze him i feel he's

just going through some sort of like a third life crisis like figuring out who he is as a person as an artist his legacy and he's just kind of grappling with it to me that's what as i listen to it i'm like he doesn't know what to do plus it's a season for anybody who puts out that much content yeah you know he's constantly putting out a new project every year. This just might be what he's on right now. I have no doubt at some point he's going to give us that mature album everybody's looking for. We know that's in him because he was giving us that early on

when we were clowning him. When you were clowning him. When I was clowning him. But I never clowned him. Yes. So I know it'll come back. All right. Enough Drake talk.

We get back to the book. Yeah, I want to ask you. Yeah, by the way, Drake, if you want to buy my book since I just talked to you for about 10 minutes, that'd be great. What came first for you? The love of fashion or love of hip hop? Oh, love of hip hop. Okay.

A hundred percent. But so I grew up in Kalamazoo, Michigan, which outside of Derek Jeter, nobody else knows where that's from because that's where he's from. And you got to remember, we didn't have hip hop radio. We didn't have, you know, concerts coming through like that. So, so much of my relationship was through things like music videos, magazines like Vibe and The Source and Blaze. So the music and the visuals really went hand in hand at a very early age for me. When you started off early on, were your parents into it? Because I know a lot of time when hip hop started coming coming out parents were like get this rappity rap ish out of here i'll never forget

and my mom is here so hi mom that they the first time they saw cd with the expletive like sticker it made it gave them pause but you know i had straight a's i wasn't emulating that in any way i couldn't even swear at home back then. I can barely do it now. And they were okay with it. But if you went to my bedroom, my bedroom walls plastered silk, the shocker, Beanie Siegel, Nas, Jay. I mean, it was very strange that I was the kid who went to Meijer grocery store and bought Blaze magazine in Kalamazoo. None of those words fit together, but they all fit together. You know, I think the good thing, though, is when you come from sort of a not like an epicenter of

hip hop or fashion, you have a bird's eye view. And one thing about this book, I want it to be very inclusive. It isn't just New York. Of course, that's the Mecca. You know, one fun story a lot of people don't know. August 11th, 1973, the famous Kool Herc house party. We talk about it with Hip Hop 50, right? The origin story. He was doing the party for his sister, Cindy, who was doing it to raise money for her back to school wardrobe. Right. So from day one, it was this sort of like the thread was there. But for me, it was important to focus on other regions, have to go to the West Coast, have to, you know, interviewing people like a Crooked Eye, for example, had to go down South, Young Thug, Andre 3000, how they push these gender boundaries, sexuality boundaries with their fashion,

as well as overseas. We can't talk about streetwear without Nego and Japan and all of those things. And showing this is really a global story. That was really important that it isn't just New York-centric and through sort of a male lens, focusing on the women, especially the unsung heroes, not just the artists, but designers, stylists, editors. April Walker, suit April Walker. April Walker, I mean, just a seminal figure in streetwear.

She came up around the same time as Carl Kanai, cross colors. She was dressing Biggie, Tupac, like all of these people very early. But, you know, for a variety of reasons, I think one thing just being her gender, she doesn't get those accolades and those flowers. You know, similarly, people like Misa Hilton, June Ambrose. Yeah, absolutely. Even people like Kimora Lee Simmons. People forget. I mean, she was running Baby Phat.

That was a streetwear brand. We may not talk about it. Like, we talk about Supreme and Stussy and those things. You say even how you were shouting out all the women. He tried to slip a guy in there for no reason. I heard it, and I didn't want to say anything. Shout-outs to Groovy Lou, who I did interview. No, don't listen to what I said, because she said Biggie,

and I know Groovy Lou did Biggie. She was shouting out the women. I know, but she she was shouting out the women she was shouting out all women he like backdoored no yeah she said she said carl can i she named another of black brand yes she did and i said all women guys do we need couples therapy yes all right yes i can play some drake and we can light a candle now Now, what about Lil' Kim? Because you broke down her fashion sense. Why do you think she's such a fashion icon? I mean, Lil' Kim from day one, who can forget that famous poster of hardcore?

I don't know if you guys remember, but I think a lot of boys became men when they saw that. What do you mean? That was on the wall. Yeah, there was a lot. That was on your wall? It's actually currently on his wall in his house. It's still on his wall. It's like a Basquiat and then hardcore.

Funny story, I got a homeboy who was high off hash and he said that. This is in South Carolina? Yes. Okay. And he said that Lil' Kim climbed off out of that post and slept with him. Shut up. This isn't a magic eye.

What was he trying to see like the. I promise, he swears by that stuff. That's kind of the greatest hash ever. Can we find out who his dealer was? Jesus Christ. Can we get that person? The best hash in all of Greenville, South Carolina. That's what it was. But why do you think she's

such a fashionista? But yeah, so Lil' Kim very early on, she was very fearless. And this was a woman who embraced her sexuality, her body, at a time that it still wasn't acceptable. I mean, I was looking at a lot of archival footage. She's sitting here on daytime TV, grown men and women wagging their finger, and you're the downfall of America.

But she stayed true to herself. And early on, she worked with people like Donatella Versace and Marc Jacobs. She became a muse to them. Because in fashion, what's more exciting than a gorgeous woman who sits very proudly in her skin but Kim like a lot of artists especially female artists they never got their flowers if you remember Cardi B was the first female rapper on the cover of American Vogue wasn't Kim wasn't Fox wasn't Missy Elliott wasn't Eve all great contenders by the way so now a lot of people in the fashion world are talking about maybe she should get like

a Lifetime Achievement Award or something, because not only did she birth a generation of female artists, but so many designers have taken just her elements from the wig, the makeup, the DIY creations that she wore. She definitely represents somebody who is fearless. What was it about Virgil that made hip hop artists currently celebrate him the way that they do? Because you don't really see that with designers. Like, why Virgil? Well, Virgil came from hip-hop.

There's a great picture in my book of Virgil, Kanye, Farnsworth, Bentley, and a few other guys at Paris Fashion Week. Oh, I remember that. Yeah, that's in the book. That's when people used to kill that picture. They used to kill that picture. But looking now, they all came dressed and they were peacocking. They were looking for the camera because and I interviewed Fonsworth for the book and he's like, we want to show we arrived. This was important that we are here as young black stylish men in Paris and you will

take our photo. So Virgil came up with Kanye, was very close to him as a creative director. They were both interns together at Fendi. Now, look, I interned at Bad Boy, and I'm pretty sure that they got to do more fun intern things at Fendi, Kanye and Virgil. But I love the fact that they wanted to earn their stripes. Like, no, no, no, we need to go to the source, and we don't want to just be the cool guys jumping in. We want to be respected. One thing Virgil, I think, did very well was he's a great dot connector.

He will take someone from hip hop, someone from art, someone from the sports world. He was a DJ. So he had this interesting sensibility that he was able to touch with. And, you know, I think for a lot of people, myself included,

we were just so shocked when he passed. So Virgil and also Andre Harrell sadly passed during the writing of this book. So I couldn't get to speak to them. But I think for a lot of people, we just, that's like a hole that hasn't been filled. Just this idea of this like nice, good guy who had so many interesting, cool friends and vision. And when he had that job at Louis Vuitton, it really felt like someone from hip hop made it.

Like it wasn't just wearing Louis. You have a job there. You know, you're actually sitting at those tables with those decision makers. So he'll absolutely be missed. What what male artists do you feel revolutionized hip hop as far as fashion is concerned? Right. You talk about some of the things that we still remember. I love how Envy had to go back to the men. He loves the men. No, no. The reason I say this is because we see it with Lil' Kim. We see it with Foxy Brown. We see it with Missy. Besides, I'll be honest with you, besides Biggie in that Coogee sweater,

I can't think of something that people connected to and held on to it. I mean, you could say Jay-Z with the Yankee fitteds and Timberlands, but what else was that big for the culture, if you could think? If we're talking about high fashion, we've got to go back to the beginning and go to who was wearing Dapper Dan. Who can ever forget Eric B. and Rakim and those Dapper Dan jackets? I think later on, someone like Puffy

was so instrumental where he could do anything because he came from that Andre Harrell lineage of Ghetto Fabulous. He was the guy making Mary J. Blige wear the baseball shirt and the cap and the you know knee pads and that whole thing Jodeci and then of course that goes to Biggie right I I don't think without Puff Biggie would look the way that he looked I think Puff as he said and I think

there's a great quote in the book I want to say from one of the track masters where Puff is like no my man is sexy and they're like really he's, no, that's why we need to do one more chance because he's sexy and women like him and he needs to look sexy. So someone like Puff, absolutely. Of course, Kanye. Kanye, absolutely, yes. This man continues to revolutionize fashion.

When I go out, I see so many little Kanye clones to this day, right? Absolutely. Like you just look like you walked out of Calabasas. Pharrell. Pharrell, definitely. Absolutely. Like, you just look like you walked out of Calabasas. Pharrell. Pharrell, definitely. From streetwear, popularizing Bape, to then launching BBC.

And he worked with people like Lagerfeld, Marc Jacobs, early, before Louis Vuitton. One fun story, because, you know, there's a big conversation in hip-hop. Who made Bape popular? Soulja Boy thinks it's him. Then there's, you know, Lil Wayne said it was

him this launched a whole the clips mr me too right that was a whole thing hands down i have a great picture of biggie wearing it in 97 really before he passed wearing bape incredible story um the fact that he was doing a photo shoot and the photographer draped it over him because he knew nigo and was like hey i want to take this picture for my friend. And according to the story, Biggie wanted some babe because they couldn't get in his size. He had to like custom order it, but he passed right after. Oh, wow. Yeah. So there's that great photo. So that's one of my favorite pictures. And there's an awesome picture of Tupac in Milan. So right before he passed, he was invited by Versace to walk in the runway show in Milan.

It was Tupac, Kidada Jones, who was his then girlfriend, and his bodyguards. They actually walked? They walked the show, and then he performed, I believe, California Love. Wow. Yeah, and apparently Gianni was a big fan of his. And Gianni Versace was smart about collecting celebrities and really having, whether it be Madonna or Mike Tyson, he just liked celebrities and he was that designer. That now we see celebs front row.

It wasn't like that. Before it was fashion editors, fashion buyers, like people who need to be in the industry. But Gianni just saw the vision and he just fell in love with Pac. And yeah, so that right before he passed. People forget how big a star Pac was. Wow. Huge. And it's funny because he really is a recurring character through this book. And it goes back to what we said before. I really think, of course,

incredibly handsome, was able to wear clothing, but also his music and his perspective. He was the revolutionary. He was the icon who wouldn't want their clothes on pox so it makes sense um another great story is how carl can i met pox i don't know if you guys remember that iconic carl can i add it's pox sitting on a basketball rim and carl told me he's like yeah i really want to work with pox i'm in the hotel trying to ask him to work with me and he's like okay yeah i'm gonna do it, well, how much do you charge? Pac's like, nothing. You're black. I would never charge my people anything.

Like, how dope was he, right? He could have worn anything, but he supports people like Carl Kanai, like April Walker, the same way he supported Versace. And I love that about him. What do you hope fashion goes in the next 50 years? We know what the last 50 years of hip-hop fashion look like. What about the next 50? I think the next 50 years? We know what the last 50 years of hip-hop fashion look like. What about the next 50? I think the next 50,

I would love to see a rapper brand become an American heritage brand. The way that we wear polo and Tommy Hilfiger and Calvin Klein and those things, maybe it's Sean John, maybe it's Yeezy, maybe it's somebody else.

I think it was Yeezy. I think he fumbled. Was or is? I think it was. He was on his way. Okay, so here's the question. Can think it was Yeezy. I think he fumbled. Was or is? I think it was. He was on his way. Okay, so here's the question. Can he make a comeback? No.

You don't think Kanye can make a comeback? I think he can. I think he can make a comeback. Absolutely. 1000%. Not if you're trying to trademark you at a time like this. I will say there's a lot of people that love him that don't care about what he say that just love Kanye and will always support his cause.

Even when they banned his sneakers, the price went up on the price on stock who's going to take the risk though that's true so it's funny i was you know oftentimes again within the industry it's mixed some people say absolutely not others say he can but there's gonna be a ceiling like he can do some shows but other shows like snl probably isn't having him back that said talk to younger people talk to gen z they love him they don't what corporation is going to partner with him okay so this would personnel probably isn't having him back. That said, talk to younger people. Talk to Gen Z. They love him. What corporation is going to partner with him? Okay, so this would be an interesting paradigm.

What if he gets his own VC and just does it himself? You don't need a caring. You don't need an LVMH. You don't need Adidas. He has enough clout and I think enough supporters still. If he could just get some money, do it himself. And to me, that's a real model shift that I don't need you. Did he build some of that already?

Did he have some of that already that he can make his own sneakers and clothes and stuff like that? I'm not sure, but he would have to do direct-to-consumer. Because the stores aren't, I doubt stores are going to carry him. Foot Locker don't want to carry him now. But back-to-consumer is even better. You get all the money. If he can do that and actually can follow through and the orders come in on time

and you don't get two shoes of different sizes, like everything's on the up and up, I think that'd be a game changer. And of who's out now, I can't see anyone else who has the connections, the clout, and the cachet. Yeah, the cultural cachet is the biggest thing. What if he sends you free new Yeezys? Would you wear them?

Oh, the sneakers are super comfortable. I haven't stopped wearing them now. Well, there you go. Yeah. There you go. I still wear the ones I bought. I got slides at the house right now. See? There you go. So I think that would be interesting. But what I love about this book is it starts in 1973, ends in 2023. But the culture is living. So it's constantly shaping and changing. So reading this book, you get this great historical perspective. But I think it also makes you excited for the future. And that's something I like, too. Oftentimes, we kind of jokingly talk about everything sucks now and there's nothing good out now.

But I think it's exciting that the future creatively and aesthetically and commercially has a lot of opportunities. Well, we appreciate you for joining us. And I'm sure you go through the, my childhood stuff, which was cross colors and- Nice. Does anyone have some old Rock-A-Wear or Sean John? Do you guys have like a storage unit or something? I'm sure I do somewhere.

Can you send it to me? I don't, I got them dumb ass big jerseys. I got a lot of jerseys that's like size triple X. Did you ever buy lugs? I actually bought a pair of lugs. I've never had lugs. I don't know why. I've never had lugs.

I bought in Blaze Magazine. I think they had an ad in it and it was sort of like a knock off Tim's, right? pair of lugs. I've never had lugs. I don't know why. I've never had lugs. I bought them in Blaze Magazine. I think they had an ad in it, and it was sort of like a knockoff Timbs, right? Never had lugs. And I literally bought a pair of lugs. I don't think I ever had lugs. No, I never had lugs. I was high-tech in Timberlands.

I still wear Timberlands. I was Timbs. Well, that's the thing, too. There's a great story about initially, Timberlands weren't really messing with hip-hop. Nope. Timberland, Carhartt, all these sort of workwear brands that we, you know, we love.

They're comfortable. They're like, no, we don't want to alienate our core consumer. I want to say Biggie helped with that, too. With Tim's? Yeah. Everyone. Yeah. Yeah, absolutely.

And also, that was a big thing. Biggie versus Pac, who popularized Versace. If you remember in Hit Em Up, Pac says, I was Versace, not you. You copy my style. People forget that. Yeah. Yeah. They always remember that opening bars of Hit Em Up. Yeah. remember in hit him up pox says i was versace not you you copy people forget that yeah yeah they always remember that opening bars have hit him up but even the fashion aspect and that's a question because in the book i talk about you know haitian jack who was close to pox like no i put him on

versace it wasn't him the drug dealers yeah it was the drug dealers and right our street guys yes the the street guys street entrepreneurs good cleanup the street entrepreneurs but what he was you know i believe was for was a juice maybe or above maybe juice he was just around jack and soaking it in for his like character and jack's like but you copied my style so that's another big question was it biggie or poc like when you think of Versace, do you think Big or Pac? I think Pac. Yeah, I think Pac. When I think of Coogee, I think Big. But you know why? Because of that line.

Yeah. It's all about Versace. Copy my style. Copy my style. I hadn't heard Versace until I heard Pac. I couldn't pronounce it until I think Kanye said it. Yeah. It's like Versace. I can't think of no, what's the Biggie Versace line? I can't even think of one. I'm sure,

I'm sure there is one. But what makes me think is notorious. Gucci down to the socks. Gucci. Gucci down to the socks. Was it Coochie or Gucci? I thought it was Coochie.

Down to the socks. I thought it was Coochie down to the socks. On the rings and watch. Yeah, but I think of Versace when I'm thinking notorious when I see Gravy wearing it.

But outside of that, when I see Biggie, I see Coochie. See? Yeah, the sweaters. I see Coogee, the sweaters. Yeah, but that's not what Biggie wanted.

He wanted to be the Versace Don too. Right. Exactly. Yeah, fighting words. Well, the book is out right now. Fashion Killer. Appreciate you for joining us.

High Hip Hop Revolution now. It's high fashion. It's in stores right now. Go pick it up. Thank you for joining us. Thank you. Let's do it again. Absolutely.

Ladies and gentlemen, it's the breakfast. He was thinking about the name too the whole time. Look, look, look. He said real hard. This is hard this is how i did it this i wrote it down just in case wow so this is how you know i'm a hip-hop you know how you got foams yeah posits so yeah that's how i saw me a christian wow i remember i like it all right i appreciate it it's the breakfast club good morning wake that ass up in the morning. The Breakfast Club. Hey guys, I'm Kate Max.

You might know me from my popular online series, The Running Interview Show, where I run with celebrities, athletes, entrepreneurs, and more. After those runs, the conversations keep going. That's what my podcast, Post Run High, is all about. It's a chance to sit down with my guests and dive even deeper into their stories, their journeys, and the thoughts that arise once we've hit the pavement together. Listen to Post Run High on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Had enough of this country? Ever dreamt about starting your own? I planted the flag. Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Oh, my God. What is that? Bullets. Listen to Escape from Zaka-stan.

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Ali was smart and he was handsome. The story behind The Rumble in the Jungle is like a Hollywood movie. But that is only half the story. There's also James Brown, Bill Withers, B.B. King, Miriam Akiba. All the biggest black artists on the planet. Together in Africa. It was a big deal. Listen to Rumble, Ali, Foreman, and the Soul of 74 on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

Hey, everyone. This is Courtney Thorne-Smith, Laura Layton, and Daphne Zuniga. On July 8th, 1992, apartment buildings with pools were never quite the same as Melrose Place was introduced to the world. We are going to be reliving every hookup, every scandal, and every single wig removal together. So listen to Still the Place on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen to podcasts.