The Breakfast Club - INTERVIEW: Talib Kweli Talks Conscious Rap, Kanye's Rhetoric, The Dark Side Of Hip Hop, New Album + More

Episode Date: October 28, 2024

The Breakfast Club Sits Down With Talib Kweli To Discuss Conscious Rap, Kanye's Rhetoric, The Dark Side Of Hip Hop, And New Album. Listen For More!See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

Wake that ass up in the morning. The Breakfast Club. Yep, it's the world's most dangerous morning show, The Breakfast Club. Charlamagne Tha God, Lauren LaRosa, DJ Envy is sick, Jess Hilarious is on maternity leave, but Nylah Simone is here, and the good brother Talib Kweli is here. What's up, King?

You say my name like my parents do. That's not how you say it. That's the right way, right? That's how my parents say it. You know, the Muslims say Talib. Talib. But I was raised as Talib. Talib. That's how I've known you for a long how my parents say it. You know, the Muslims say Taleb. Taleb. But I was raised as Tali. Taleb.

That's how I've known you for a long time. You say it the old school way. How are you, King? I'm good. Good to see you. New album, The Confidence in Knowing. Yes, sir. What is The Confidence in Knowing?

Not just the album, but that mantra. What is that? Well, first of all, shout out to Jay Rawls, the producer, professor at the Ohio State University, producer of Brown Skin Lady. He's my partner on that album. So shout out to J. Rawls. But the confidence in knowing is a quote that I got actually from Jay-Z. He said it off the cuff in an interview,

and I feel like he heard it somewhere, but it stayed with me for years. It's the idea that as an artist, you have to know that you're on the right path. You have to know that you're doing the right thing, even when the world tells you that you sound crazy when you say, I'm going to be an artist for a living. You know what I'm saying?

Even when the world says, nah, that's not going to work. Your chances of succeeding in that world are so small, you should get a regular job. And there's a lot of voices like that for artists. So for art, you have to have the confidence to know that even though the world is telling you that you're crazy, that you're doing the right thing. You know what's interesting about that?

I remember when Hov said, you know, skills sold lyrically I'll probably be Talib Kweli. I wonder if in that moment was he truly confident? That's a great question. I feel like he was in that moment he was telling us that he feels restricted.

You know, he still had to like drop an album every fourth quarter to get the sales of Rockefeller up at that time. He still had to make records for the radio, records for the club. The business of it. The business of it. And then after that, when he was a billionaire, he no longer had to do that. Now he got the Basquiat dreads.

You know what I'm saying? Now he looks like how I looked like in high school. He sounds like how I sound like in high school. You know what I'm saying? Do you ever feel restricted? Because I know, like, you do your own thing a lot. So have you ever felt that restriction? Even with the release of this project,

I've seen you talk about you tour so much and just some of the comments you made about yourself. I think you're in a really great space and you love the space you're in. But it's a lot different. Artists normally, like you said it yourself, you would understand why someone would call you a one-hit wonder depending on what they listen to in hip-hop

and what era they are. A lot of artists would be upset about that but you are very comfortable with where you are but do you feel restricted sometimes like you have to fall into the business because of whatever reason i think i've gone through that i can listen to records i've made i like all my records and i think that i'm good at my craft but i can listen to records i made five years ago 10 years ago 15 years ago where i'm like okay i could tell the intentionality behind this song was to be in the music business that's trying to get a single on radio trying to get more ears and eyes of what i'm doing and the the less i do that the happier i am when did you start doing

that less though like do you remember that moment of like man um i think it was a gradual process i'm not sure when i really stopped doing that but i think around the time when i started i did an album called the seven with styles p and uh on that album it was no pressure to have a hit single or have a radio single or anything just like we just gonna bar. And after that, I did an album with Diamond D. You know, did an album with Mad Lib. I try to work with people who I don't have to meet that expectation. Wasn't that the meaning behind Ruckus back in the day? Like, wasn't that label there so artists didn't have to compromise?

Yeah, but then Simon Says happened. And it was such a huge record. Like first raucous song that made it to radio was Definition, Me and Most Def. And Flex liked that. He was playing that. If you remember in the era, Flex was so big in that era. And so Simon Says comes next.

And before Simon Says, the raucous thing was independent as fuck. Like, we don't need the radio. We independent. Until you get a radio single. Then the label started chasing them hits. Remember, they signed G-Rap and they signed Smith & Wesson. They had G-Rap and Jagged Edge record.

You know what I'm saying? It's like, you know, with all due respect to both G-Rap and Jagged Edge, that record didn't work. That's not what you wanted to hear. That's not what you wanted to hear from either one of them. And so they got kind of caught up in that, trying to chase them hits. I was going to say, in the confidence of knowing,

because I feel like, especially the type of rapper that you are, when you talk about knowing, it's like understanding life and just the amount of knowledge that you drop. It's kind of like, how do you navigate and just, like, staying balanced? Because the things that you talk about aren't really, like, subjects. Like, it's real life. Mm-hmm. I think for me it's been rewarding to be this type of artist and to, you know,

I love what I do. And I'm someone who focuses, I try my best to focus on the culture of hip-hop. And I think people outside of the culture of hip-hop and I think people outside of the culture see hip-hop one way they see it as just greed or sex and violence and it's easy for them to critique that um but I think for me and the community I come in come from it's just always been about the culture I'm excited. I wake up excited about it. I think just trying to be excited about it and doing what you love for a living. Like, I'm not in it to make money.

I want to make money, but I'm not. I don't rap to make money. I try to allow who I am to create revenue streams, and I encourage other artists to not depend on the art for revenue because it ain't out there like that. But, yeah, I hope I answered your question. It's a good question. I'm not sure I answered it properly.

No, you do. I feel like because I'm a person who gravitates towards conscious music and I feel like at times I don't want to be aware, but I can't help but be aware because this is just where I'm like this is that's interesting yeah because music especially for people who are marginalized in the communities that we serve with our music these people have hard lives and so music should be an escapism and it often is and so a lot of people go to the club you go to the club people work hard all week they save up their coin they go to the club they don't want to hear somebody talk about the election or black nationalism or, you know what I'm saying? They just want to hear the jam. I got dragged for saying that in this room. You got to let me say it with you.

Yeah, thank you. Because I basically was trying to say that as well, too. Like, even if I have, like, conscious music that I listen to, like, when I'm out and I'm partying, I really don't, stuff gets heavy. Like, I just want to party and have a good time. But she started off by saying, nobody want to hear that shit.

That's not what I said. No, no, no, no, no. That's not what I off by saying nobody want to hear that shit that's not what I said that's not what I said that's how it was edited this is how Kendrick dropped the party I was asked a question it's not what I said it was how it was edited I was asked a question for the clips

I think he edited it with his own fingers what I was basically trying to say is like even if the music is great and it has a place I I think more people feel like they want the escapism. They do. A lot of times. I feel anyway. I'm not a stats person. This movie that Issa Rae did years ago,

she kind of set us up for the Kendrick and Drake battle. I forget what it's called. It's Issa Rae and Lakeith Stansfield. I know what you're talking about. In that movie, there was an argument about Kendrick and Drake. It was a rom-com joint. Yeah. I can't remember the name of it.

But the whole movie's based on he liked Kendrick, she liked Drake. And at the end of the movie, he like, I don't mean to spoil it, but he buys her tickets to a Kendrick Lamar concert.

Because it was like the philosophy of what Drake represents versus what Kendrick represents. Why the hell my brain never caught that again? I never realized that. I never realized that.

Why am I just realizing that now, again? I never realized that, actually. Why am I just realizing that now, yo? But she was early on that. You know what I'm saying? She was early. She's just acting in the movie. I don't know if she wrote or produced it, but she was the catalyst behind the movie.

I don't know why that hasn't come up. I haven't heard that all year long. I just thought about it just when you just said it. I just thought about it. But I got this song, Get By. It's my biggest song. Whenever something bad happens to black people, y'all play it up here on the radio station you know you know what it is but but you know i used to go to strip clubs a lot i didn't i didn't

go to strip clubs until i became known as a rapper you know i'm saying like a certain era of rap strip clubs were very popular and um I would go in a strip club and the DJs a lot of the DJs this is before like you could get title on your Serato the DJs a lot of times

in strip clubs they might have just get by in their crates so I'm walking in a strip club and they playing get by

and them strippers is like I want to hear this I want to have to twerk to this you know what I'm saying so yeah even though they doing what they need to do just have to twerk to this. You know what I'm saying? So, yeah. Even though they're doing what they need to do just to get by.

That's true. So I get what you're saying. But I will say this, to that point, because what you're saying is correct, the hardest thing to do is to make conscious music. 100% I agree with you. And I challenge myself. I run to it knowing that challenge.

Knowing people want to hear that escapism. How can I be so dope that even though they don't want to hear this, they still gonna have to hear it? And that's why I committed. I believe you're a conscious rapper though. I consider you that.

And that's why when you were on, I think it was Tore's, yeah, the Tore show. When you were on his show and you said the thing about like you're a most touring rapper. Like you tour,

you make money, but at the same time you would understand why some people would say the one hit wonder thing because they're not tapped into the conscious or whatever however people label you I really was like wow I've never heard an artist like kind of use that to big themselves up

and I commend you for that because a lot of artists take that personally like I can't go in a strip club and hear my music like are y'all crazy you should be playing my music. I'm just I'm really self aware I think I try to be self aware I try to understand my worth, my value, but I also try to understand perception. Perception's not always reality.

The way people perceive me, it's not what it is, but I still have respect for their perception. I want to go back to something you said about Simon Says because it just made me think about it, right? Simon Says wasn't necessarily what you would call a radio record. It wasn't. So why would a rocker say, hey, Coogee Rap, do a song with Jagged Edge

instead of just saying, hey, make the best art y'all can possibly make. And if radio messes with it, clubs mess with it, they just do it. I mean, think about how big, I mean, radio still, terrestrial radio is still very important, still very big, but it was bigger back then. It was like, without the radio, you know what I'm saying?

Like, Souls of Mischief. If you're really dope, why ain't you signed yet? That was the why aren't you on the radio why aren't you on and so that's just what it was Simon Says I don't think was made for the intention of getting on the radio Pharaoh was trying to make a hot joint but it's such a good song that they tasted a little bit of that success and now that's the only thing they focused on that's how I feel about get by like get by it's such a good song that they tasted a little bit of that success. And now that's the only thing they focused on. That's how I feel about Get By. Get By is not a radio record. It's just a super dope record that means something to a lot of us.

And when you hear it, it's like a feel-good joint. Matter of fact, the video for Get By, myself and Rook has put our money into it because we were a distribution with Priority, I think. I had put out a single for that album, two singles already, and the label, the major label, the distribution, they wasn't going to give us no money for it. Wow.

I'm like, get by it. This to me was a hit record in my head. I'm like, this is a single. But they didn't support it. So we put it out on our own. So it's like, to your point, it's like the machine didn't see it. They were like, that's a mix show record.

When did Jay call you and say, yo, I'm getting on that? Or did he just drop the verse and you heard it somewhere? Nah, I met Jay at Lincoln Center at this Roots event, which is crazy because the day I met Jay is actually on YouTube somewhere. You can see the day we met. Wow. And I told him we should work together. But he gave me his two-way number,

his two-way pager. Remember you had to put it next to him? And I paged him, and I was like, yo, get on this remix. And he was like, I got you. And then I didn't hear back from him. I hit him up like two or three times.

He never responded. And then one day he hit me. He said, what's your email address? And I sent it to him. And five minutes minutes later the verse was in the email wow and then i you know if you listen to that remix there's many different versions of it but the one that people listen to the most is me kanye most of most and jay-z so when i got the whole verse for me it was gonna be me and jay-z i laid eight bars as a reference, and then I left to go get some food. Kanye and Mos Def was in the studio.

They each laid like 24 bar verses, and then they gave it to DJ Enough, and then it came out. So I have eight bars on that remix. Everybody else got way more bars. That's wild. It's real wild. I'm triggered whenever people talk about that remix. That is crazy.

But shout out to all of them because that's how excited people were about that record. 50 Cent jumped on it. Busta Rhymes jumped on it. Snoop Dogg jumped on it. It just became like a lightning rod. I kind of miss that era though. Just give it to the DJ. Just put it out.

We're excited about this. Yeah. Do labels still even matter? Like what has changed since the 90s, early 2000s? If it ain't radio, if it ain't labels, like, what do artists do? I think it's, you know, the power of the people. You know, I don't know how this show works anymore

because I don't know what y'all tape or what's live. I'm so confused, but you know what I'm saying? Like, I was listening to y'all talk about Tyler, the creator. That was live. That was live. Yeah, yeah, yeah. So I think what people from his generation like the conversation that tyler what that was had around tyler and dj khaled when their

records dropped at the same time and khaled was on social media like not understanding how tyler went number one i think that to me signified. Yes. Where we're going from this, like, very industry-based radio with your relationship with radio to, like... The internet. The internet. Because Tyler is the internet. And developing your organic fan base. And I think Tyler and Odd Future and, you know, people like that are...

They now, like I was alluding to, they now the old school of that. Now there's new kids who I probably not don't even know about it was interesting right because when you have these conversations even about a child of the creator and i even think about you know you and most and all of them you got to sit back and think why aren't those guys in like the top five top you know greatest of all time conversations are the best of their era conversations because it's almost like i think they have the machine i think they are. I think we not in those conversations.

People like our age are not having them conversation. I think that the kids are. Even when you hear people say like for who? You've heard this, right? Definitely. He says that. You say that.

Is he more relevant in the streets conversation I think just like it goes from errors like for there's a certain error it's regional too but there's a certain error that for certain error nobody's better than Lil Wayne for a certain error nobody's better than Future and nobody ever will be

for a certain error nobody's better than Biggie, Jay-Z and Nas I think it just keeps... Mm-hmm. That's true. I have Future in my Fantastic Four. Okay. For this era. So it's Kendrick, Cole, Drake, Future.

But then I sit back and think to myself, why isn't Tyler in that conversation? Tyler is not a product of the industry, maybe. That's what I'm saying, yeah. So even with guys like y'all, like the machine wasn't behind y'all. Because I've heard people say... Y'all would say Future's a product

of the industry I don't feel like no not the industry I don't feel like Future's a product of the industry honestly for real a little combination

of both I feel like he got some industry vibes when like the whole like dating Sierra thing happened just because of his relationship but music wise

the industry doesn't like really push Future his uncle Rico he got relationship ties I met Future when he was 15 years old but I just mean like

The machine When I hear product of the industry I think like These are artists that had that Like it's obvious The machine is there I feel like Future Does his own thing

He's like I might be mistaken I don't know Cause I know Future was bubbling in Atlanta In a way that You know I wasn't really a part of that

To see how he bubbled Yeah He came up in the street Yeah But that's what I mean He's still there A lot of Product of the industry people Like they can't still Bubble in the street It Yeah. But that's what I mean. He's still there. A lot of product of the industry people,

like they can't still bubble in the street. It's hard to do the balance. Like I think all of them bubbled in the street. I don't even know what's happening.

But Drake bubbled in the street versus a future bubbled in the street. It's a different conversation. Yeah, one's like street and then one was to the woman.

One was a street guy and one was to the woman. It's different. We don't got to argue about it right now because it's about you. I say this. When I say product industry, I'm not saying that you like a plant or like,

that's not what I'm saying. What I'm saying is at a certain point, a button was pushed and the building got behind you. And the building absolutely got behind Future. And in Tyler's case, I have to clarify, I feel like in his case, the building, his labels, they got behind him. him but it's not they didn't get behind him in the way that they would get behind an artist they would push to urban they're not bringing him up to the to see y'all the way they would bring up a certain

artist they're not pushing Tyler and maybe that's just because I had Tyler his crew moving he's not being pushed to the urban I think it's because of how they're moving because they were early strategic on internet with trolling and he was creating his own TV episodes. He was an innovator of the internet. He was trolling me. I still want answers for this. He did a video years ago where he said

he was in his house or someone's house and he pretended to fall down the steps and he got up and he said, hey y'all, I'm Talib Kweli. And to this day, I still don't get the joke. I hope he wasn't trying to diss me. Was it at a birthday party? I don't know where it was at.

He was wearing a birthday hat? I don't remember what he was wearing, but I remember that. I never got an explanation for that. But I guess that's the question I'm trying to ask. When I look at a group like Blackstar, most of Talib Kweli, should be mentioned in greatest hip-hop groups of all time is it because there was no machine behind you to push that but well to we had a button push though to be fair okay raucous raucous gave the illusion of

independence but what made raucous different wasn't just the artist they signed it was because they took Blackstar and Company Flow and Coogee Rap and all these people and they spent the money they paid the payolas

they paid they paid for the parties they had this house in the Hamptons you don't gotta do the quotation marks payola real I don't wanna get

nobody in trouble you know what I'm saying I ain't no DJ but they paid they paid for when you in that era you saw Rawkiss videos

on Rap City on 106 and Park on they and they the radio promo all that stuff they did all the stuff the major label did

while saying we're independent and I think that's the difference so it was a lie the whole time they were technically yeah technically

they were independent but they were independent, but they were independent spending the way the majors were spending. Gotcha, gotcha. Did y'all get more money for your albums? Yeah, the deals that we got, the advances we got were comparable to major label deals. Gotcha. But it was like it was presented.

They do that now though, right? So now when they roll out artists, they'll have a big major label, but they won't even tell you the artist is signed. They'll let the artist bubble on social media and get your own because they realize that's how people discover art. So that's what Ruckus was doing back then. Did y'all ever flirt with signing with somebody bigger,

like a Def Jam or? Black Star had a deal on Geffen. And we had a deal on MCA. And then Ruckus got scooped up by Geffen and Geffen got scooped up by Interscope I've had major

I've been signed to Warner Brothers Interscope Capital I've had major deals I've had independent deals I put it out myself I've done it all

Do you feel like Blackstar made a wise decision or a poor decision by putting by not putting the last album out why?

That's a great question there's pros and cons to it. The pros are the deal I did with Luminary, which was a podcast company, to put the Blackstar album out with Luminary, meant that by the time you heard the album, I'm in the black. That's never happened in my career.

Normally, I have to go out and beg people to come buy the album. Hey, y'all, I got a new album out. And I didn't have to do that. I already made my money back before the album ever came out. And so financially, lucrative wise, it made a ton of sense in the world. But I'm still a product of this culture. I still want to be involved in the culture. I'm a rapper. I want people to hear my raps. So the trade-off is we made our money. I didn't lose any money, but a lot of people didn't get to hear the album.

I will say that I wish, and this is a wish and a hope, that people would be more, I wanted to say this to you earlier about being a conscious consumer because you said you're into conscious music, but I think too often we put the onus on the artist to be conscious,

particularly rappers, and we don't put the onus on ourselves to to be conscious, particularly rappers, and we don't put the onus on ourselves to be conscious consumers, conscious radio hosts, conscious radio programmers, conscious DJs, conscious whatever, conscious teachers, conscious garbage collectors, everything. And if you're a conscious consumer, you're going to want to meet the artist where they're at. But the fact is that these people have been a lot...

We have a generation who was raised to think music was free to not have to pay for music it's already available to them on the apps so when you come to people and say you know what to hear my album i need you to click two or three extra buttons on your phone they'll be like what what how dare you what's wrong with you you don't care about the people? And they get very upset about that. I think we're kind of like low-key getting back to that, though, because a lot of people are putting their music out on Even and like behind a paywall before they put it on major DSPs. And, I mean, yeah, I'm guilty of, I mean, you know,

I grew up on LimeWire. Mm-hmm, same. I pay for artists I support, though, because I know that. So if I support you and I really like it. Wale, I will pay for his stuff, even though I don't even. To be honest with you, it goes to the other side of your Apple Music library when you actually download it, and I never go over there. But I just do it just because I want to support him.

So it's a little bit different for us. Yeah, I actually buy music for sure. Yeah, I can't be mad at someone who doesn't i wish more people had the knowledge to know because it's expensive not just financially but spiritually mentally you know we put blood sweat and tears into this and it's like you know and now in order to be successful in the streaming era you have to feed the machine you have to keep creating keep creating keep creating and you're rewarded by that that's actually what i really was trying to ask in the confidence of knowing because being conscious is like you know so much and you you'll say these things but people don't really hear you

and like is that frustrating yeah um there's a lot of things that i that i hate being correct about and i get frustrated but that's just ego. So I have to remove my ego from that. And that's why I laugh, because I've been working on that a lot lately. What were you correct about that now? You'd be like, hmm, told y'all. Like, you were correct then, but now it was... So much.

I know there's one. You could point to the song. I don't think it's ego to be like I told you nigga I don't think that's ego at all it has to be at least one or two give me like the top two of like

I said it okay top two I used to be on social media a lot I've been kicked off a bunch of social media because I argue with people

and I engage and they don't want that and the arguments I'm having are over like bigotry and politics it's not like in my opinion it's not trivial stuff it's stuff that's important to talk about but man if you ask anybody about me on social media who's not a fan of me you'll hear this often talib quali calls everybody a nazi he say he why is he always saying everything is white nationalism everything is and what's in the news? What's dominating the news cycle?

You ain't got to tell me. You have a right wing general who in his gave the definition of fascism. He said fascism is a right wing extremist. That's right. Authoritarian philosophy that this guy that I worked under when I was his military advisor is a fascist. This guy praises Hitler. I've been ringing this bell for years. Since 2016, I was out in front of the White House protesting because he was saying fascist, Hitler-like things. And people were like, you're crazy.

You keep saying Nazi. People would come to my page. I put up an anti-Trump post. And people would stop what they're doing in their day and come to my page and put up an anti-Trump post and people would stop what they're doing in a day and come to my page and be like you shouldn't do that you're a democratic puppet you're a puppet of the Jews this is the type of things people say to me you tell me that I'm because I'm against Nazi that I'm a puppet of the Jews you know who you sound like you sound like a Nazi and I felt like I was going crazy a little bit because to me it's clear I'm a little disappointed in our mainstream media.

Because the way that the CNN and MSNBC and all them, they're on the story now. But it's like, this is nothing new. I just had this conversation with Anderson Cooper last night. Like literally, because I've been talking about this double standard. The fact that we treat Trump so normally is mind boggling to me. And if you've ever read like a book like The Rise and Fall of the Third Reich, you can see exactly we're on the same exact path of fast track to fascism in America. It is. When Trump comes out and says Kamala Harris is a socialist, communist, Marxist, those are the enemies of the Nazis politically. That's the opposite political spectrum. So if someone is trying to pander to Nazis, they're going to call you a

socialist. They're going to call you a communist. And Kamala Harris is not any of these things. She's an imperialist. She's a capitalist. She's not a socialist. She's never been a socialist. She's never been a communist. These are just boogeyman words. And the Democrats, Kamala Harris, Joe Biden, you know, all of them, Barack Obama, Bill Clinton, Democrats as a party, there's so many things you could say that they've done wrong. There's so many flaws. There's so many times they've taken advantage of the black community. There's so much out there you could criticize them for. And a lot of these criticisms are valid. But what I find disheartening is you have people who can now become experts and can eloquently tell you how racist the 94 crime bill was and why Joe Biden shouldn't have said on this show, you know, vote for me if I'm black. They know all that stuff.

But then you point to Trump's racism and they're like, I don't see it. I don't see it. I don't see it. What? That's right. I can't trust you. I'd rather trust someone who says I don't trust either one of them. That's right. Than someone who's trying to convince me to support Trump.

So the fascism thing is very, because to me, that's to me the difference. Even though I don't agree with a lot, I don't agree with the Democrats on Gaza. I don't agree with the Democrats on immigration policy. There's a lot of things I don't agree with a lot. I don't agree with the Democrats on Gaza. I don't agree with the Democrats on immigration policy. There's a lot of things I don't agree with them on, but they're not fascist. You do not want to live under authoritarian rule. You just don't want to.

These guys, the right wing, they straight up say they do not believe in democracy anymore. They don't want a democracy. They don't like the idea of the DEI, right? They don't like a democracy. They don't like the idea of the DEI, right? They don't like a diverse America. All these foreigners coming in, having a vote, they don't like that. They want minority

rule. That's why they have the Electoral College. The Electoral College was designed so that rich white men have all the power, even if the majority says, this is the people we want. They say, well, we're the landowners, so this is the people we want. You know what I'm saying? So that's one thing. And then the other thing I'd say... You would be jailed right now for having that conversation. Like, literally, that well, we're the landowners, so there's the people we want. That's one thing. Then the other thing I say... You would be jailed right now for having that conversation.

Literally, that's what we're headed towards. He's talking about putting... We're not headed towards. It's a potential. We got 11 days. He's talking about putting journalists in jail, talking about jailing his political opponents, talking about putting people in detention camps. If you vote for me, you won't have to vote anymore.

Ever again. That's clear fashion. It's mind-boggling, bro. He led an attempted coup in this country. We saw it. He's trying to, he wants to get rid of the Department of Education, which is one of the top things that it says in Project 2025, something he says he has nothing to do with,

even though all his advisors and all his people are the ones that put it together. Anyway, I don't want to talk too much about that guy. is what it is well i do have one question it's kind of related to that guy before you get off okay i mean look if y'all want to talk about that i could talk about all day it's kind of it gives it goes back into music i when um kanye was on drink champs and he made the common versus you conversation and then you went respond and was like you talked about how he told you that he didn't really want to be down for trump that rick rubin made him do that and like all that stuff right um have you talked to kanye since all of that stuff yeah the last time i spoke to kanye was uh last i ran into him at a hotel uh maybe last march this is after drink champs after drink and this is after your comment had he saw what you said in response yes i i this is after your comment. Had he saw what you said in response? Yes. This is the first time I saw Kanye after Drink Chips.

And I walked up on him. He said, I knew that was you. I could tell from your silhouette of your baseball hat from across the room. And then we had a long conversation. And he told me then that he does not support Trump anymore. He said things since then publicly that would lead me to believe he still supports Trump. This guy goes back and forth but when he sees me both times i saw him he says i don't support trump i feel like he don't want to say that in front of me but um if you watch the drink champs he says uh talib kweli is always telling me to read i wish he would read himself to death

that's what he said on the show. And it's because a lot of the things he says, I would send him links and articles. Instead of just, you're wrong. I'd be like, read this. And so that's what he was reacting to, the fact that I keep trying to make him read. And I feel like Kanye is a genius. He's an icon. Musical genius. Yeah. Musical genius. Fashion icon. Culturally, he's very important, but he's not very well read yeah musical genius ike a fashion icon culturally he's very important but he's not very well read yep he's admittedly admittedly admitted i don't read admittedly and i think not being well read i don't education shame i try to be careful because

my parents are educators i so i try to be careful but but I feel like the education, American education system is failing us. And this is why someone who's been indicted for rape has a very strong shot of being president for the second time. And so you haven't talked to him recently to know where he stands with the Kamala, the Trump right now. I don't even think we care. Yeah, I don't know what his position is on this now. But last time I spoke to him directly,

he seemed personally offended by not getting the relationship he wanted from Trump. Kanye goes where he's liked. There was a documentary made about me a few years ago. Someone interviewed Kanye, and he talked about. There was a documentary made about me a few years ago. Someone interviewed Kanye. And he talked about how he met me and Mos Def and Yassin Bey. And he said, nobody liked my beats. No one liked my rhymes.

But I started working with these guys because they liked me. When you see Kanye talk about his love for Trump, it's rooted in Obama dissing him. Yeah. These guys like me. When you see him wear the red hat, it's because it's like the MAGA people, they're supporting me even when nobody else is. These people support me. I think in the era of

likes and wanting to be liked, I think Kanye just wants to be liked. Understandable. Once you see him hug Trump in the Oval Office and say, you're like a dad to me. I ain't never looked at him the same way. You make me feel like a man.

I really have not looked at him the same way. Yeah, man. I got a lot of love for that guy, but he be saying wild stuff. How do you feel about the state of hip hop today from just cultural aspects? When you think of the Kanye's, when you think of the Diddy's, like, you know, like Russell Simmons, it's like these pillars of our culture. And, you know, the stains that are on their legacies now, what do you think about that? It's twofold. I don't think we could separate.

I'm conflicted about this a little bit. I don't think we could separate. I don't think we should separate these people from hip hop. Hip hop is beautiful. It's hop. Hip hop is beautiful. It's ugly. Hip hop is good. It's bad. We have conscious activists

who are uplifting the community in hip hop. We have abusers and rapists in hip hop. We have all of it. So I think we do a disservice to ourself to be like, well,

that, you know, to not talk about it in that way we have to hold each other accountable in the hip hop community we should hold these people accountable who are doing these things before it leaves our community before we have to see the mainstream media explain to us what a freak off is

you know what I'm saying this should already be issues handled in our community with that said I'm glad I don't know what a freak off is. You sure you don't? I couldn't explain it if I tried. You see the baby oil behind you? What'd you say?

You see the baby oil behind you? Oh, y'all here. I saw a Danielle Bruch. Y'all saw that baby. Is that from Danielle? Yes, exactly. See? Yes.

But I will say that in the conversation, and I alluded to this earlier, we have to also understand that the conversation about hip-hop is not being had with people like me in mind, with the conscious artists in mind. And so, yes, hip-hop is all those things, but hip-hop is also very beautiful. I don't think hip-hop should be held accountable

for what Diddy is accused of. I agree. I don't think hip-hop should be held accountable for what any of these people are accused of or doing. With Diddy, even with Diddy is accused of. I agree. I don't think hip-hop should be held accountable for what any of these people are accused of or doing. With Diddy, even with Diddy, like, there's the accusations and then what we actually saw on the tape. So that's not an accusation.

Like, we saw him hit that girl like that and beat on that girl like that. And, like, we have to deal with that. But to me, that's not a hip-hop thing. We can't blame hip-hop for that. But as a hip-hop community, we should circle the wagons and address it. Because it's going to be impossible, right? Like I think about what happened with the 50 years of hip hop. I think it's 40 years of Def Jam.

You can't tell the story of Def Jam without telling the story of Russell Simmons. But you got to tell everything in totality. When they do these bad boy docs in the future, you're going to have to talk about it all. Where's the doubt with Russell? I know they said he was served in Bali or something like that. It's just an accusation. Yeah, it's just an accusation

at this point. But yeah, I mean, we have to address it. Russell, he's important. What's even deeper than Russell is somebody like a Bambaataa. Right? African Bambaataa.

There is no hip hop without him, but there have been several allegations and accusations. As far as as i know he hasn't been arrested he hasn't been to court but you want to you want to you want to respect victims and you want to uplift their voices if i'm to believe these victims this is something we have to be able to address but to be honest about what these people are. You know, Karras, one, got in trouble on Drink Champs years ago. Because first of all, on Drink Champs, you get drunk and you're saying wild shit.

But he got in trouble because, you know, he was there in the Bronx at that time. He was trying to say that he was trying to big up the legacy of Bambaataa and not ignore it, but people felt like he didn't do enough to support the victims. Got you, got you, got you. But I think it's because, sorry to cut you off, but just as a woman, I think the biggest part of that is there's always this like, should we believe,

should we not believe, especially when it comes to power, celebrity, money. Power dynamics is a thing. Exactly,? Especially when it comes to power, celebrity, money. Power dynamics. Exactly. So I think it's always just, it's such a weird line to tote just because of that. It's like, so you don't blame hip hop. You can't separate the man from the music. Some people won't do that, right?

And that keeps the celebrity and the power in it. And then you ignore and you blame a Cassie and say, oh, she just wants money until you see her being dragged up, like up and down a hotel hallway. So I think that's where the, the tuggle with how do we deal with it as a community in hip hop, right? Like that's, that's for me where that line always comes

and it's hard to kind of figure out where you're from. Or is it like to your point? When I say that, I just mean like us, like how he said we need to deal with certain things before it's mainstream and others. That's what I mean by that.

Not just hip hop as a music genre, but like just us as black people. So you mean people who are aware of this behavior the whole time and never said anything about it? Yeah. I mean, if you're aware, I've been around these people and I haven't seen any of these type of things. But I'm sure there's people who've been around who have seen these type of things um you know women the the stats tell us that women aren't often lying about these things when they say they're abused in this way so you know i i i definitely believe in innocent until proven guilty but at the same time we have to we have to uplift and support victims, and we have to, to your point,

understand when there's a power dynamic involved. Somebody like Cassie, there's a lot of criticism about how she went about doing it. None of us were in her situation. It's very dangerous for her to come out and say these things, not just in terms of what people think someone like Aditi is potentially capable of doing to her, but just in terms of how the society someone like Aditi is potentially capable of doing to her, but just in terms of how the society looks at her.

That's right. Her mental health to be... Yeah, it's a lot. Man, God bless Cassie. She's very brave. And it's a shame that she went through that. And it's a shame that it got to this point that we had to see this videotape for it to get...

for it to get any semblance of justice. And I don't even know if she feels like she got justice. It's also interesting because I feel like when you do, like, call out something on culture that, hey, guys, this is something we should actually be paying attention to. Like, this is a problem. It kind of falls on deaf ears. Like, how are you actually going to get the message across?

Like, I don't even know. It's almost kind of like seeing, like, police killings. Like, you see it it happens you feel a way but then you just keep like it's already normalized so much that i don't see a change i want to share a story to your point about a lesson i learned in that uh years ago rick ross had a lyric uh on the song oh you didn't even know it. Yeah. And people were upset about this lyric, rightfully so. Me and Lupe Fiasco were arguing about it on Twitter.

It caught Mark Lamont Hill's attention. He invited me on his show. He was on HuffPost Live at the time. And I was on with Rosa Clemente and Jamila Lemieux. And we got into an argument. And their point, these were friends of mine, but their point was that what he's saying

should not be tolerated in hip-hop culture. And I was like, I agree with that, but I don't think we should separate what he's saying from hip-hop culture. There are rape lyrics in hip hop culture before Rick Ross said this. Way before Ross. So I think we need to have context and I was trying to make a nuanced point

and a lot of people didn't agree with me. You know Dream Hampton was somebody who I thought was a friend of mine came out against me and was like Talib Kweli is enabling rape culture. There's another lady Brittany Brittany Cooper. She had the crunk feminist thing.

Oh, no. And she wrote an essay about how I'm a poor example of, I'm not an ally to women because I'm protecting Rick Ross. And then all the Rick Ross fans was mad at me. Because like, why are you calling out Rick Ross? So I was like caught in a rock and a hard place how I felt about it. And I wrote a response to Brittany's thing about me because I felt personally offended by it. And I stand by everything I say in that response except for one thing.

One thing I did in my response to her was I talked about my activism. I talked about the work I've done, my songs. And you should take into context who I am. But I declared myself an ally to women. And I learned in real time that that's not my place to do. And so I dismantled my own argument by declaring myself an ally to women. It's not my place to do that. It's for women to tell me that I'm their ally. And that's something I had to learn. That was a blind spot that I had to learn. So even though I spot that I had to learn.

So even though I felt like I was being treated unfair, you can be treated unfair. You can be right about something and still respond in an incorrect way. And I think that that's important too with hip hop artists because I feel like a lot of times when things happen, you really don't know where to lie because certain things have been normalized.

And also too, you want to believe all women, but then sometimes we find out through court cases that things aren't true. But I think it's important, like what you just said, is like you allowed, you said, you know what? I got that wrong. And then being able to step back and like learn. For me as a woman, I've learned so much

from my male friends about that on my side of things. And I think if men, especially men in hip hop, were able to remove their ego, the chains, the chains are how much they cost and really listen to some of the women that are in their lives just your mom you know what i mean like it's certain things that even if you if even if it's just music you can understand it and and sometimes i think there are certain things in music that we allow to just be music and And I'm not here to argue whether that's right or wrong, but there are certain things that happen. And I'm like,

I hear certain men speak on it and hip hop. And because of your ties to this person and what they meant to your life, the stuff that people are saying, I'm like, bro, you should just be quiet because you know what, Lauren, I will say this because Lauren's absolutely right.

And everything that she's saying, I think that, um, the things we thought was just music or the things we thought was just jokes did trigger somebody because somebody actually went through that.

Right? So it's like, I think that was always the blind spot for I think all of us in the culture. That's interesting because, you know,

you have what you say on social media in public and then you have your private group chats with your friends and family. And that's how we raise as black people. You don't need a house. And some, and you know, in these private group chats,

you and your family members, y'all might share memes and say things that are off color that you want to say in front of everybody. Just, you know, making jokes that you know is not appropriate for public. And so when the Diddy News broke, you know, I have a group chat with my whole crew, and men and women from all different races of people. And people start posting memes, baby oil memes and stuff like that.

And one person was like, this is not funny. We shouldn't be joking about this. And I had I had to have a conversation. We joke about it in here all the time. She checked someone who made a joke in the in the public group chat. And so I went and spoke to her separately. And I'm like, maybe you should have hit that person on the side. Because now people don't feel like they can express theyself in the group chat.

And then she's like, I'm sorry. It's just that I have a friend who went through this and was in a situation at one of these parties. And I just, but she understood my point. And I understood her point. You know what? I learned that too? I learned that watching the Dream Hampton doc

that she did on R. Kelly. When the victims were talking about how Chappelle's jokes and Boondock's jokes and everybody's jokes had affected them. And I was like, yo, I never thought about that

because in my mind, we was clowning R. Kelly. Right. You never thought about it. And some people need the jokes to get over it. Some people do. Or some are just funny. And some people need the jokes to get over it. Some people do. Or some are just funny.

Some are just funny. Some are just funny. That's the other thing. Some are just funny. But the confidence in knowing, right? I wanted to ask you something about the album. Oh, what did I want to do? It slipped my mind.

What the hell slipped? Oh, you got a lot of new artists on this album. Yes. A lot of new artists. Why? Was that intentional? Shout out to J. Rolls. I've done more features

than anybody, maybe besides Busta Rhymes. And so I'm kind of like tired of asking people for features, you know, because you feel like you have the favor bank with people.

You don't want to exhaust it. And Rawls said, we should need some features. And I said, okay, Rawls, I don't feel like calling up any more favors from these artists, but you tell me

what your wish list is. And I'll make one phone call. And if they deliver within the next couple of months, I'm not chasing nobody for these features. I'll put the call out. And God bless everybody on the album. Every person on that wish list is on this album. So that was J. Rawls.

He's like, I want to work with Jameda Rose. I had never heard of Jameda Rose. I want to work with Coast Contra. I was familiar with Coast Contra. Love the Coast Contra. I was like, yes. But I wasn't sure they were going to get on the album. Even with the song I did with Demis,

probably the song that's gained the most traction from the album, SWAT, I sent them five beats before they picked a beat. They were very serious about, like, you know, Georgia Ann Muldrow is someone he... He said, I want Buckshot on the album. I was like, that's nothing. We could get Buckshot on the album. So, yeah, that's nothing. We could get Buckshot on the album. So yeah, it's like, shout out to J. Rawls

for making that decision. But it's definitely just like lyricists, Buckshot, my man Sky Zoo. Sky Zoo's actually my cousin. Really? Everybody his cousin, man. Yeah, Sky Zoo. I'm actually on tour with Sky Zoo right now.

I've been on tour with Sky Zoo all summer. Wow. I was just with Sky Zoo two days ago. You tour a lot. I do. I'm leaving to Ireland tonight. Are you jet lagged? You said,

where did you say that? You said jet lag is your perpetual state of being. That's correct. You jet lag right now? That's correct, yes. I'm always jet lagged. It's like the Hulk in the Avengers movie. I'm always angry. I'm always angry. That's me. I'm always jet lagged. But you said that earlier. You said artists don't make money off their art. So this is the way for you to make your money.

Yeah, touring is absolutely my most revenue stream is how I feed my family off of touring. I try to, as I get older, I want to do it less, trying to increase the revenue streams, trying to add more stuff out. I wrote a book. I've been podcasting, other things. But yeah, touring is it.

What's up with the part with you and Dave, y'all? What? The part with you and Dave, yall what the part with you and Dave y'all not Dave kind of does that we recorded the summer pandemic we recorded

man something like 800 hours of stuff like it's crazy and Dave I think he gets distracted with specials and getting awards and stuff like that

you know he has so much going on there was a time for a year when all he cared about was that podcast, and that's when you saw episodes come out. I think he's going to get back to that. He talks about it all the time,

but we haven't got back to actually, like, cheffing it up. But Midnight Miracle's a great situation. Shout out to Yassine Bey and Dave Chappelle. You got the song Native Sons on the album? Yes. What's that song represent for you? Man, that song means so much to me.

That song means so much to me um that song means so much to me the native tongues is my foundation um jungle brothers tropical quest queen latifah moni love black sheep busser rhymes leaders new school chiali beat nuts what they laid down it's like that's really my blueprint as an artist. And so that song, I'm trying to figure out how much I want to share about this story. Share it. Because I was asked not to share certain aspects of it. Okay. But what I will say is that song started out in a darker place.

And because it's a tribute to the Native Tong i sent it to q-tip and he was like that's not the right energy and q-tip gave me suggestions on what i could do with that song and i took his suggestions and because of that the song is one of my biggest songs recently we went on jimmy fallon with the song i got a remix coming with some special guests that people gonna really love i hope it's the Native Tongues. Some of them are. Okay. Some of them are.

And I just got to thank Q-Tip because the last bar on that song was a Tribe Called Quest is in the Hall of Fame because when I wrote that song, I was like, this song is going to come out at around the time

that Tribe Called Quest is in the Hall of Fame. And I went to see Tribe Called Quest get inducted in the Hall of Fame. It was one of my greatest memories of my whole life and then I DJ'd the

after party, the Kool and the Gang after party me and Jay Rawls DJ'd the party, I didn't even know Rawls was going to be there so it was like synchronicity and Kool and the Gang was there, Chuck D and Flava Flav, Mary J. Blige, Common, Jennifer, you know De La Soul

Q-Tip didn't perform at the Rock and Roll Hall of Fame because I imagine it's hard for him to perform without Fife. The rest of the piece to Fife. But at the after party, he jumped on the mic. He did Benita Applebum. And Mary J. Blige did The Blackest Black. And it's like for me to be in that room

with DJ Red Alert downstairs DJing and the Cool and the Gang in the next room. I mean, it's like, this is my whole life in one room. And man, big up the native tongues. And a lot of new music, a lot of new artists are finding it hard to inspire the people. Because the music is being made like an assembling line. It's more disposable these days.

But what a Tribe Called Quest and De La Soul and Jungle Brothers and all these people, Queen Latifah and all these people who only love represent is timeless and priceless. And man,

I just had such a great time this weekend. What did it mean for you to see Tribe Called Quest get inducted in the Rock and Roll Hall of Fame? It means that we're doing the right thing. It means that...

It means that when we had the confidence and knowing back then, when hip-hop wasn't this global thing, that we were right. You know, and... I feel so good for the family of Fife. And Q-Tip is, if you watch that documentary that Rap Report did about Tribe Called Quest, Pharrell in that documentary says, we're all they sons.

And musically, I believe that. Talib Kweli, y'all. The Confidence in Knowing new album with J. Rawls is out right now. Thank you for coming, my brother. Shout out to this wonderful energy. I really like this interview. Y'all did a fantastic job. Thank you, sir.

Y'all talk about important things, and I'm glad I got to come up here. Thank y'all. Absolutely. Thank you. It's Talib Kweli. It's The Breakfast Club. Wake that ass up early in the morning. The Breakfast Club.