The Breakfast Club - INTERVIEW: Trymaine Lee & Charles Coleman On Motivating Black Voters, Values, Villains + More

Episode Date: March 21, 2024

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Hey y'all, Niminy here. I'm the host of a brand new history podcast for kids and families called Historical Records. Executive produced by Questlove, The Story Pirates, and John Glickman, Historical Records brings history to life through hip-hop. Flash, slam, another one gone. Bash, bam, another one gone. The crack of the bat and another one gone. The tip of the cap, there's another one gone. Each episode is about a different inspiring figure from history. Like this one about Claudette Colvin, a 15-year-old girl in Alabama who refused to give up her seat on the city bus nine whole months before Rosa Parks did the same thing. Check it. Get the kids in your life excited about history by tuning in to Historical Records. Because in order to make history, you have to make some noise. Listen to Historical Records on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. that informs and empowers all people. We discuss everything from prejudice to politics to police violence, and we try to give you the tools to create positive change in your home,

workplace, and social circle. We're going to learn how to become better allies to each other. So join us each Saturday for Civic Cipher on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. On Thanksgiving Day, 1999, five-year-old Cuban boy, Elian Gonzalez, was found off the coast of Florida. And the question was, should the boy go back to his father in Cuba? Mr. Gonzalez wanted to go home and he wanted to take his son with him.

Or stay with his relatives in Miami? Imagine that your mother died trying to get you to freedom. Listen to Chess Peace, the Elian Gonzalez story on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Muhammad Ali, George Foreman, 1974. George Foreman was champion of the world. Ali was smart and he was handsome.

Story behind the Rumble in the Jungle is like a Hollywood movie. But that is only half the world. Ali was smart and he was handsome. The story behind The Rumble in the Jungle is like a Hollywood movie. But that is only half the story. There's also James Brown, Bill Withers, B.B. King, Miriam Akiba. All the biggest black artists on the planet. Together in Africa. It was a big deal.

Listen to Rumble, Ali, Foreman, and The Soul of 74 on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast. Hey, this is Justin Richmond, host of the broken record podcast. Every week I, or my cohost,

Leah Rose, sit down with the artists you love to get unparalleled creative insight. Our new series is looking at one of the most influential jazz labels ever. Blue note records. You'll hear from artists like legendary bassist Ron Carter, singer-songwriter Noah Jones, and guitarist Julian Lodge. Listen on the iHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen to podcasts. Wake that ass up in the morning. The Breakfast Club.

Morning, everybody. It's DJ Envy, Jess Hilarious, Charlamagne Tha God. We are The Breakfast Club. Morning, everybody. It's DJ Envy, Jess Hilarious, Charlamagne Tha Guy. We are The Breakfast Club. We got some special guests with us this morning. We got the brother Charles Coleman and Trimane Lee. Welcome. Peace, peace. How y'all feeling? Morning, morning, morning.

How's everything? We blessed black and highly favored. Everything good? How y'all feeling? Man, I'm glad to be here, man. Super glad to be here. Glad we can make this happen. It's like we're on the world, but we're here.

We're thugging it out. Absolutely. I loved what y'all was doing. I love the black men in America that rode the 2024. Why was that important to do? You know, it's always important for us to, in our position, is to center black men, right? We understand that we are absent in so many spaces, right? Financial spaces, various institutions in certain neighborhoods. But for us to be able to elevate our voices and center black men because sometimes we know brothers feel like they're not getting attention at home they're not getting attention from candidates they're not getting the attention that they deserve so charles and i came together and said we have this this platform so why not

elevate these brothers voices i also think that when you're talking about our discourse now politically we have a very lazy way of looking at it and when i say we i'm talking about our discourse now politically we have a very lazy way of looking at it and when i say we i'm talking about our community and one of the reasons why is because we like to say go vote but that's kind of sort of with the pretext that you're voting in the way that i feel aligned with my interest if you're not i'm not necessarily keen on that and what we wanted to do was present a variety of perspectives in a way that was balanced, that was fair, that allowed people to see, all right, I may not agree with that ideologically, but I understand it's part of the conversation. And so that was like really, really important to both of us. Why does it feel like, you know, they already setting it up to if Donald Trump gets back in the White House, it's going to be black men's fault?

Well, they always going to think about this is they don't send the message. Right. But the message isn't received properly. And you you don't motivate folks you don't explain why you're the better better candidate it's almost as if they are requiring and demanding 100 fealty that 87 percent of black men voting a certain way isn't enough and they will most certainly blame us when we don't show up when their messaging wasn't resonating properly i'll give you an easy one because you need a bad guy right like you need a bad guy you need a villain in this political conversation and unfortunately we are in america and you know it's easier to paint us as the bad guy rather than to look at data right like if you look at the data

if donald trump were to win there's no question that college educated white women and uneducated white women who are voting would have had a huge hand in that right instead of looking at the demographics that point to a particular area it's easy to say i like this narrative we're gonna put it on black men and so i think that that's really the answer like you need a villain to compensate for the fact that to tremaine's point you did not do your job like it's amazing to me how in our conversation about the elected officials that want our votes we will put more onus on the voter yes who's dissatisfied rather than on the candidates who have failed to satisfy the voters the refusal to actually engage they're gonna spend the money get out the vote the last minute

souls to the polls you know try get people. The last minute. Souls to the polls. They're going to try to get people in church service and get them to the polls. As opposed to, which I first of all hate that they put a little twang in their voice too. Souls to the polls. A little sauce on it. But they're going to wait until the very last minute instead of actually engaging with the community daily. Be in the community. Set roots up so people

know you're there. Talking to brothers all around the country what they say is they don't ever ever acknowledge us. I was talking to a all around the country. What they say is they don't ever, ever acknowledge us. I was talking to a brother the other day and he said, even with Donald Trump's foolishness with the sneakers and sneaker kind and all that, at least the devil saying your name, you want somebody to say your name.

At least he's saying it. Yeah. And when he said that, at least the devil say your name. It sounds like, you know, it sounds wild, but at least there are some overtures there.

Charlemagne, I'm just, I'm being curious. I, you know, where did you become this lightning rod of like controversy around black men in the vote

I have no idea I was trying to have this conversation with somebody and I was trying to go back, I was like, you know ABC News, that's new you know what I'm saying, we all know if you don't vote for me, if you ain't black, you know all that but I was just like, why is it,

where did this sort of conversation come from? I think it's because left wing media does not do a good job of pushing the narrative they want. And they do a good job of pushing right wing media narratives. For example, if I'm on something like this week, ABC, and I say,

Donald Trump is a threat to democracy. Donald Trump is a fascist. Donald Trump led an attempt to cool this country and then um i say what joe biden is an uninspiring candidate who doesn't have no mankind energy fox will take that part and highlight it and instead of the left taking the first part of what i said and highlighting that they'll just respond to what fox said and then it becomes this easy easy villain though easy villain easy villain i think you know sometimes I feel like it should go back to the days where

you don't know who somebody's candidate is right you just talk about voting and getting people to get out there to vote and you hear both sides or all three sides if you're talking independent and nobody talks about who they're voting for because I think that creates a form of almost like I'm shaming

you because you're voting independent or I'm shaming you because you're voting Republican or I'm shaming you because you're voting independent or I'm shaming you because you're voting Republican or I'm shaming you because you're voting Democrat right because you said you know we should vote for our interests right but if somebody's interest doesn't you know fall on Jessa's interest why should I have to go that way and if I say I'm voting independent

oh you're voting independent you effing up the votes you know he can't win and I think it really clouds things my mom and my dad never talked you know to their friends about who they were voting for they talked about everybody should go register and vote and what it meant to vote but they never really talked about what candidate they were voting for the choices have become so stark though so it's not just a world where ideals like trickle down economics or policing in this country or even border issues it's become clearly there are these white supremacist impulses embedded in our politics now. And so it's unfair that now we have to expose ourselves,

and sometimes you have the ideas of a democratic plantation, and you've got to stick to this side or that side. But the stakes are so high that I think it's a legitimate concern of how folks are arriving at their vote. We should have full access to the franchise, which we don't. But you should be able to have complete independence and be able to keep it to yourself but i think in this environment it's become dangerous i agree with envy in the sense that we know that shaming people does not result in folks going to vote it does not shaming people is not a successful strategy it's's not a productive strategy. I think the solution ultimately is to create a space that allows for informed perspectives to have a voice and for people to become educated.

That's why it's called Black Men in America Road 24. That's a fact. It's on Peacock right now. Check us out. So we outside. So, you know, that is definitely a thing i think that the other side to it is it's incumbent upon us to stop going through this cycle where we either a don't where we stay uneducated about the entire process of civic engagement or b choose not to share what we know with other people on the off years right

like how many times are we going to be like well you got to do this because it's the less of two evils. Are you going to go? The problem that that people on the left that are terrified about another reign of Donald Trump are having is that you had four years and you didn't do anything with it to get people to understand or to get people to feel like this is what's going to be different. And now you want to sort of do a rush job and shame people to envy's point or scare people to the other point the sky is falling the sky is falling again every cycle is the sky and that is not an effective strategy and so i think that if you're going to get to a place where you're talking about people just sort of being able to you know discuss what their interests are and vote along those lines they they have to become educated where that's something that, that they,

I don't think people like to have conversations, right? Like, so you look at, uh, I'll just take Floyd Mayweather, right? So Floyd Mayweather, a couple of years ago said he was voting for Donald Trump and everybody, the whole black community hated him, gave him the middle finger, turned their back on him, whatever, whatever. But nobody ever asked him why, why he felt that way, you know, or why are you not voting for Joee biden during that time because he

might have felt like well joe biden did this to me or my father told me that when he passed this law it affected him and we never asked why to have those conversations we're so quick to turn our back on somebody that doesn't necessarily agree that what we have and we just hate to have conversations i'll give you a an example and then sort of an anecdote. Number one, my biggest concern in this entire discussion is that as black people, we are negotiating our views around blackness based off of whether you agree with the candidate who I agree with. That is deeply problematic. Right. Imagine you have a disagreement with someone in your community who looks like you about someone who's respectfully not in your community. And because they don't align with your choice of someone who's not in our community, you are now then trying to invalidate their blackness.

I'm not about to argue with you over no white people. That is absurd. So I'll give you a great example. And project the whole conversation through the lens of the white gaze. Yeah, I'll give you a great example real quick. I have a friend. He's a plumber in Chicago. He employs all black people because he believes in supporting black people and teaching black young men and women trades.

He is having trouble bidding on contracts because of the influx of immigrant labor into the city of Chicago and other contractors are underbidding him because they're paying their contractors, their, their, their employees under the table a lot less cash. So he's like, look on this immigration issue. I actually feel like I'm more aligned with what conservatives are saying than what Democrats are saying.

And I want to support, but I want to support black people. I want to employ black people. I want to put money into the black community. You can't tell me that this man is anti-black because he has that position. So when you talk about priorities, it shapes out in very different ways for very different. But you also can't ignore the fact that when you align yourself on a singular interest, a singular issue that you're also in bed with a whole bunch of other people, namely white supremacists.

If you're a Republican, it doesn't make you white white supremacist. But if you're a white supremacist, blatantly, you're probably a Republican. Not to disavow the idea that there are white supremacists racing the Democratic Party. Everyone who was fighting for the union didn't necessarily think black people were equal. They just believed in this idea of the union. And so there are white supremacists on both sides.

But that side on the right now, it's become part and parcel of the party now. And especially with Donald Trump's recent takeover of the RNC, expect to see more of that. So what do Democrats do? Because, you know, the messaging of fear, I don't think is going to work in 2024. But this is the year we should actually be afraid. Because, you know, we've been hearing the same rhetoric every election cycle, right? Every presidential election cycle.

It's a threat to democracy. This candidate, especially Republicans, they always demon election cycle. It's a threat to democracy. This candidate, especially Republican, they always demonize him. It's a threat to democracy. This is the time it actually is, but you can't make people believe it because you've been saying it for years. No, I really don't understand that. So last night I was in this off-the-record conversation with some folks in the White House and I had this very same conversation

about why aren't you, you know, going to the community? People don't, even when you look at the charts and unemployment and wealth and everything is on the rise from Donald Trump, but but the people don't feel it and they're still trying to figure out the messaging they say you know we know we're trying to figure out the messaging you're supposed to be the big 10 party filled with empowered black people all across this country and you're still trying to figure out how to communicate with black men and the way we live so segregated in this country right you know where the black people are you know what institutions

they're in what neighborhoods they're in you know where the black people are. You know what institutions they're in, what neighborhoods they're in. You know the power brokers, the working class, the middle class. You know who they are. Why aren't you still going to them? They're still trying to figure out how to message all this good news, but to your point earlier, but still responding in that white supremacist kind of echo chamber. It's not doing any services. I think it's really a matter of an inability to acknowledge their failures.

So part of what has to happen ability or refusal or refusal. Yeah, right. Correct. A refusal that is couched as an inability. That's a that's a great point. I think that part of why the messaging is falling flat is you can't say to me, you can't talk to me about all of the things you're going to do, all the great things you're going to that you've done. As if this is this rosy picture without acknowledging yo we done messed up before we done we we got a lot of work that we need to do and we acknowledge that so for as long as that is treated as a cardinal sin like yo we can't really talk about that because we're going to alienate white voters the messaging in terms of black people and

in large part black men is going to fall flat the political calculus that it takes to say you know what we know this is this is right but if we speak about black men too loudly right we know what's going to happen there'll be a backlash immediately not just from from the right but also in in that center part of your own party you hotep but you know even with that it's like yo man when i hear that it's like yeah i'm a vote but how can i ever truly support you if you don't even want to say my name in public i ain't no hoe you know why is talking about black men talking about black people a bad electoral they also we have to we have to be honest and again this is beyond party they they fear us so they've marginalized us and as long as we're persona non grata in

any of these spaces in this discourse we could still again be the boogeyman the villain but they never have to actually appeal to it because there's a general consensus that black men are to be feared or not to be respected over incarcerated we're not in college we're all those things we've been isolated to the point when it's like common knowledge that we are that we this is i get i get so much heat for this but it's the truth we've been as a community the side piece of the democratic party for so long that when we step out of that role and we start actually asking questions and pushing back now it's a problem yep and i mean that's really the dynamic that exists unfortunately with the left and so it

highlights the very complex nature of what it is to be black in america and then engage political systems because you realize like okay these folks over here are not really for me these folks over here they mess with me but they mess with me in the dark when it's convenient when they need me when they want something right and then when you can't have that honest dialogue you know to envy's point you start thinking about a third party you have folks turn on each other and it's like well where do i go what do i do so it's a very very complex space and it highlights the old quote in america black people do not have permanent political friends we only have permanent interest.

And that's something that we need to sort of understand before we sort of blindly align with any political party. We need to figure out what is our ideology first. I agree. I don't know why, if you, if you're black in America, you shouldn't be holding the Republicans are Democrats. When I see these MAGA crazies that are black, I'm like, man, what is your issue? When I see these MAGA crazies that are black, I'm like, man, what is your issue? When I see these black liberals that are crazy over

these, I'm like, what is your issue? Like, none of us should be beholden to these parties. And it's gotten so rabid. I was down in South Carolina at a barbershop, and I was talking to brothers who were all Democratic voters, right? And I said, are y'all planning to vote for Donald Trump? They said, oh, nah, he's a real problem. I said, well, do you have homeboys and people in your family

who are considering? He said, yeah. I said, well, said well why and they explained why it felt like more money it felt like this but they were not voters they were not voting for donald trump so i get the clip on on tv it's running msnbc all day i'm down south carolina doing my thing and the rabid response from black liberals and some white folks in there they like you and charlamagne y'all ain't pushing back i'm like first of all what me and charlamagne gotta do with each other you became the boogeyman so all of a sudden it's like no it was real they were like you and charlamagne and y'all trying to get the trump and i'm like yo i'm just asking brothers one if i come to you and invite you to give me your opinion i'm not going to beat you up for how you feel absolutely i'm not trying to convince

nobody i don't work for the party i work for the people that's right i'm here as a messenger i'm not trying to convince nobody i don't work for the party i work for the people that's right here as a messenger i'm here for the people not for any politician um but the response for one second again i don't agree with anything canada zones has to say but when you talk about a democrat plantation like is this the plantation yes and they're they're willing to stab me the brother y'all been known for decades doing this work and i'm a broker of the people and then this is the response and all you're doing is amplifying what the people are saying guess what that's what they should be they should have their strategists and their campaign teams down there listening to the people and then they would understand why people feel the way that they do i'm not making this up it's a true story and the

wild thing about it was that happened literally the the special premiered on a sunday it premiered on sunday february 4th right that happened like literally that saturday because that was the the democratic primary in south carolina that clip ran a right wing outlet took it fox chopped it up ran with it made it seem worse than it was similar to your point charlamagne did exactly what you was talking about and then all of a sudden we just got all lumped it became like a whole tap hateration in this dancery. Like, it was just, everybody was catching strays. And I was with my man.

So I'm like, yo, y'all haven't even. And they thought it was part of the special. Which, even if it was, my point was, well, don't you understand that these are actual people who have these concerns? And these are your voters. Trying to shame people from the conversation isn't going to make it go away. They start exposing it at Young Brother. these are actual people who have these concerns and so trying to these are your voters right from the conversation isn't going to make it go away they start exposing in a young brother i felt bad for his young brother like 22 years old was somewhat reluctant to do this but i knew his cousin so everybody came together and he was like you know my age i think he was like 22 he's like

we only voted one time so all we know is trump and the pandemic and all this they started releasing his public information oh you ain't struggling that much you just bought a house with your voted one time so all we know is trump and the pandemic and all this they started releasing his public information oh you ain't struggling that much you just bought a house with your girlfriend i was like and the young brother like that's how you beat people out of the process yes as long as you could create a chilling effect the you're having the opposite response that you want you want an engaged public and young brothers especially that will be proselytizing to their homeboys and be able to be able to articulate some of these ideas right and machinations of the other machine instead, you push them

into a corner. It was terrible. Do you think people need to change or Democrats need to change their perception of the hypothetical swing voter? They don't think about black men when they think about the swing voter. The person that probably voted for Obama might have voted for Hillary

but then they're like, you know what? I'm going to get this Trump thing to try. What's up, y'all? This is Questlove, and I'm here to tell you about a new podcast I've been working on with the Story Pirates and John Glickman called Historical Records. It's a family-friendly podcast. Yeah, you heard that right. A podcast

for all ages. One you can listen to and enjoy with your kids, starting on September 27th. I'm going to toss it over to the host of Historical Records, Nimany, to tell you all about it. Make sure you check it out. Hey, y'all. Nimany here. I'm the host of a brand new history podcast for kids and families

called Historical Records. Historical Records brings history to life through hip-hop. Flash, slam, another one gone. Bash, bam, another one gone. Historical Records brings history to life through hip-hop. Each episode is about a different inspiring figure from history. Like this one about Claudette Colvin, a 15-year-old girl in Alabama who refused to give up her seat on the city bus nine whole months before Rosa Parks did the same thing. Check it. Get the kids in your life excited about history by tuning in to Historical Records because in order to make history, you have to make some noise.

Listen to Historical Records on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Hey guys, I'm Kate Max. You might know me from my popular online series, The Running Interview Show, where I run with celebrities, athletes, entrepreneurs, and more. After those runs, the conversations keep going. That's what my podcast, Post Run High, is all about. It's a chance to sit down with my guests and dive even deeper into their stories,

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Hey, what's up? This is Ramses Jha. And I go by the name Q Ward. And we'd like you to join us each week for our show Civic Cipher. That's right. We're going to discuss social issues, especially those that affect black and brown people, but in a way that informs and empowers all people to hopefully create better allies. Think of it as a black show for non-black people. We discuss everything from prejudice to politics to police violence, and we try to give you the tools to create positive change in your home, workplace, and social circle. Exactly.

Whether you're black, Asian, white, Latinx, indigenous, LGBTQIA+, you name it. If you stand with us, then we stand with you. Let's discuss the stories and conduct the interviews that will help us create a more empathetic, accountable, and equitable America. You are all our brothers and sisters, and we're inviting you to join us for Civic Cipher each and every Saturday with myself, Ramses Jha, Q Ward, and some of the greatest minds in America. Listen to Civic Cipher every Saturday on the iHeartRadio app,

Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Hey there, my little creeps. It's your favorite ghost host, Teresa. And guess what? Haunting is back, dropping just in time for spooky season. Now, I know you've probably been wandering the mortal plane, wondering when I'd be back to fill your ears with deliciously Spooky Season of supernatural chaos that'll make your spooky season complete. You know how much I love this time of year. It's the one time I'm actually on trend. So grab your pumpkin spice, dust off that Ouija board. Just don't call me unless it's urgent. And tune in for new episodes every week. Remember, the veils are thin, the stories are spooky, and your favorite ghost host is back and badder than ever. Listen to Haunting on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Then I'm going to go back to Biden.

I think the only thing that I would say in response to that is Democrats don't have to change that. We have to change that for them they're not going to make that decision on their own unless there's something that moves them to do so so as long as i can count on you to show up when i ask you to show up right like as my side piece right that's what i'm just saying you're gonna say the third time don't get in trouble bro that's the last i was saying um as long as i can count on you to show up when i show up that's never gonna change so that's on us as the elector to say like i am not set in stone as a voting block that you can necessarily count on you gotta i'm available right but you gotta work for you gotta do something to get me out to vote for your candidate i think that's that generational democrat right yeah i look at my

mother my father when they started voting and they would take me to the school to vote what would they usually do back then right well democrat democrat democrat democrat democrat democrat democrat democrat democrat democrat right that's what that's what they did right because that's what their parents did right so when i first started voting when i was 18 what did i do at first democrat democrat democrat democrat democrat democrat democrat because i was like that's what my parents did that's that's what it was so a lot of people still do that and i think a lot of times democrats know that that when people go into that booth they don't care who's on that board they're just gonna do democrat democrat and democrat until you start understanding and learning and then when you start

understanding learn you don't know who to learn from you don't know who's right you don't know what stories are fake some people say well you go to msnbc or you go to and some of those stories don't be true so it's like who do i rely on to find out the facts when it comes to these people first of all msnbc is always my question i think it's you know I think that it's it's that is a very valid question and I think in today's age misinformation is a thing that people don't talk enough about and that actually saw I saw it when when Tremaine was telling the story about what happened how quickly things can get out of hand I think part of it is you do have to get media from a variety of sources and a variety of perspectives because that's the only way you can compare and start to see like

all right so this is saying something different than this and this is saying something like what's starting to align what's starting what actually makes sense but if you lock yourself into one media source if you're someone who's just starting out and you're saying like, all right, I want to kind of figure this out. You need to be able to look at a variety of media sources on the same story. So if it's just like, Donald Trump in Mar-a-Lago, what happened today?

Read the Fox News article, read the MSNBC article, read the CNN article, read the BBC article. There are going to be certain things that are going to be universally true that will be reported in all of them. You could probably take that as fact. But you know, the only way that actually works, though, is if you arrive with a base of information and facts.

So you'll be able to arrive and be able to decipher and filter through. Our news filter is so off because people aren't arriving with the baseline information and understanding how the system works, let the the actual nuances of an actual issue so when you go to fox you know that's nonsense because a b c or d or if you go to msmbc you know that doesn't sound right because i know a b c or d but but to your earlier question though this idea of um you know this the mythology around the stories we tell ourselves as americans and the mythology around what a working class voter is what a middle of the road voter is they don't take into account a youngstown ohio which is always the poster child for the working class white man it's a majority black city who arrived there through the great migration and were blue

collar workers and so as long as they're they're trying to do this political um you know acrobatics around we can't offend this group because we need that that working class middle that white working class as long as you have mythology that there's a certain kind of cloistered away black voter and that they're not also in the middle they're not also independent thinkers and they're not also working class or blue collar workers then you can continue to see the same paradigm and i also think when it comes to msnbc cnn fox you know they're not really interested in reporting the news they're interested in ratings and revenue. I think Trump brings ratings,

and that's why they want to have as many Trump stories as possible. I think this new narrative of black men or black people being against the Democratic Party, I think that is another thing that's getting them a lot of engagement and a lot of ratings. So they're running with storylines as opposed to actually trying to present real news. I somewhat disagree. I think when we're understanding how the cable news space works it's like a newspaper i'm an old newspaper guy it's like the front page to the metro section is actually news then you get to the op-ed and commentary section so at msnbc you'll have news

all day and then you get into a little commentary where there's more opinion for a long time you hadn't seen donald trump on our airwaves but then this is the news again as a reporter we are leading with the fire there are more important things happening than death and destruction or the missing kid who got shot in the head or whatever it is but that actually is the fire and so i don't know if it's intentional like we gotta get the ratings let's turn to trump but it also is such a break from our norms which we didn't handle well the first time so i think we we probably need more attention but just interrogating what this man is doing and saying i think interrogating him more not just you know msnbc run a headline that says charlemagne is pushing maga messaging simply because they asked me on january 15th fox news asked me do i think the border is going to be an issue in november and i said yes and the

reason i said yes is because based off conversations i'm having with people, whether it's, you know, here in New York City, when Mayor Eric Adams, you know, they made all of the kids do remote learning so they could house the migrants. Or whether it's, you know, people are running to the street talking to me about their neighborhoods being overrun with gangs that are coming across the border. Or it's people in Chicago telling me about how they feel like the migrants are getting more resources than they are. These are just conversations that regular, everyday black people are having with me so i said that how is that maga messaging right you know now the board is the number one issue i think right i think that we've entered into a space that has become increasingly well not even politicized just polarized and the sensationalism around people's positions in a way that allows you to sort of just from a binary standpoint be like you all the way over here they all the way over here is something that has really hurt dialogue and and made it difficult

for people to have understanding and i think to envy's earlier point we don't have conversations anymore and that's a big problem that's one of the reasons why tremaine and i did the special black man in america the road to 2024 is we really wanted to highlight the fact that number one these conversations are happening whether you try to shame brothers away from having these discussions or not they are happening to charlamagne's point and number two they can happen in a space that allows for us to sort of have a dialogue, not always agree, but also not be disagreeable about it. And that was something that we really were intentional about when we talked to Jeezy, when we talked to Hakeem Jeffries, the speaker, the minority speaker in the house or minority leader in the house. We talked to people from all walks of life who had very different ideological and political perspectives and heard different things and it was okay right and i think that we need more of that

and let me be very honest yes i'm an msnbc guy jermaine is as well but at the end of the day we're here for community and i don't expect that any platform, respectfully, right? And obviously, I bang with MSNBC. But I don't expect that any platform is going to do that for us. There's not an institution in America that's going to treat us fairly. We got to do that for us. We have to be the ones to be able to say, like, all right, we can have these conversations ourselves without turning around and being like, oh, well, you don't agree with me. And I'm questioning your blackness. And we can't afford to be at eyes in this moment in every moment that preceded

this we cannot afford that and i think that you know it ends up becoming entertainment for some folks when it's really life or death you think we should have more mixed conversations meaning that um you know i was saying that i feel like the vice president should go on fox news like she should go on handy the same way President Obama used to go on O'Reilly Factor. I feel like we can't keep talking about people or allowing people to talk about you without talking to

them. That requires good faith though. That's what I'm saying. That requires that we're going to arrive at this moment and have a dialogue and disagree and have this discourse and try to unpack a few things. Not a gotcha moment that we can circulate on social media for that red meat. Let's get a win. The libtards, the this, the that, when you can't operate in that environment

because it's just not a good faith environment to operate in. But you don't think it's hard to take you out of context if I'm sitting here talking to you? If the audience is actually watching it in real time, I think it's easier when you make a statement somewhere else and then Fox can take it and remix it. It is, but I still think, it's still going to be chopped and screwed, but I still think it's still gonna be chopped and screwed but i still think

that tremaine is absolutely right you have to come to the conversation with good intention right like if you really do you want to have a conversation are you trying to have a gotcha moment if you're really trying to have a conversation ask the tough questions right like ask the difficult questions have the difficult issues come up and let's have a conversation just keep it balanced just keep it balanced if we're gonna do it let's do it just keep it balanced i think that's the only caveat it has to be in a space that is truly about a balanced discussion before you can try to say oh well you know you shouldn't do that outlet or what have you because unfortunately there are too many outlets and platforms that really are just looking for a viral moment as opposed to trying to promote a conversation because we know controversy gets clicks.

It seemed like it's working for Gavin Newsom, though. Him going on Fox, you know, having conversations with Hannity, debating with Ron DeSantis. Now, all of a sudden, people got his name in the conversation to be president. Because this is the way he moves. I think he's a singular kind of force he looks presidential right so i think he just has a certain thing about him that i think he can he can move that way where any number of folks on the left couldn't move like that though i think also he i think also gavin newsom presents um a different alternative when you're talking about leftist politics that doesn't exist and so people are kind of interested in that you know people you know for whatever reasons a different alternative when you're talking about leftist politics that doesn't exist.

And so people are kind of interested in that. You know, people, you know, for whatever reasons, then I can name a lot of them. People may not necessarily be thrilled with Kamala as a rep as being representative or Vice President Harris as being representative of the future of the Democratic Party. So Gavin Newsom steps in and he's more or less unchallenged in terms of that space. He's an early adapter, if you will. So there's some interest there,

and I think that he's navigated it fairly well. Yeah, because even that's unfair when they say things like, you should be scared of a Kamala Harris presidency. Of course. Why? Her policies wouldn't be that, wouldn't be different than any other Democrat. It's because she's black, and she's a woman.

And because she's a woman, and she's not a wh woman she's not for that space now i know these brothers got to go but i just gotta this is away from politics i just got a question uh david banner it was uh recently was circulating in the last couple of days that david banner was talking about hbcus and he was saying the answer is how university at all times all right well thank you for joining now i'm just kidding you don't want to have to i know he said hbcu shouldn't be a choice that all black students should go to hbcu it shouldn't be an option they should not go to these white universities they should have to go to a hbcu and that's what he felt i want to ask which which you know the problem is i think i think in all these things we are still all these

centuries after enslavement fighting to be whole citizens, and we haven't gotten there yet. So full access to the franchise, full access to the full fruit of what it means to be an American. And I think that comes with the choices to do whatever we so please. And so certainly we understand these story institutions have been the bedrock and foundation of our communities for a very long time. But I think we do also need to allow black people to go where they want, have bad ideas, to our point about voting. Again, we don't require any of that.

Big shout. Listen, my wife went to Southern University, so I don't know. I'm going to have to fight on her behalf here. It got me, baby. I want to tell you, for people listening, Envy put his Hampton helmet up I wasn't going after Tremaine the only thing with that is I went to Hampton University

my daughter didn't I wanted her to go but we went through that whole thing we went to Morgan State, we went to Clark, we went to Spellman we went to Hampton, we went to Howard but it was the programs that she wanted to do and the HBCUs didn't have the program which she wanted to major in.

And that was the biggest problem. And, you know, when I'm talking to somebody, the HBCU presidents, I tell them that we have to change a lot of the curriculum because the curriculums are still old and they don't have some of the new curriculum. Like, you know, we had Ryan and Ocho and they were talking about how, you know, brothers are making millions of dollars gaming yeah and not coding but playing games and how it's a big business and these creators are making that and a lot of the times our hbcus don't like that if it's if it's free when you think about this idea of reparation which is in the news now in california right and my latest podcast undocumented uncounted millions of reparations is like how are we made whole in this country we understand the horrors of slavery and then the hell that came after although the violent dispossession that we face of stripping of land and resources and as part of that the freemans bureau establishing these hbcus land-grant colleges i think that

would make sense if as part of repair as as far as making us whole that hbcus are free and i think that changes the conversation so i agree you know i am going to look at this from the standpoint of also being an HBCU alum. And then when I was when I was at Howard was a board of trustees, member of the board of trustees twice. So I'm looking at it from a very practical standpoint and being a lawyer. So a lot of people may not really on the top of their head be remembering the Supreme Court's recent decision that outlawed or declared unconstitutional race based admissions considerations. The case against Hartford. The significance of that in this conversation is what it is going to do is you have a generation that demographically speaking is the biggest and largest since the baby boomers that are now sort of like in college or entering college or in that space. So you have more people who are now going to have less access to more schools because affirmative action is essentially gutted at the collegiate level. Our HBCUs right now cannot,

they cannot handle the capacity of students that are already there from a housing place. You know this from facilities place. You know what I'm saying? Like it's just a thing, right? You go to hall or pierce hall right now and it's pink peeling off the walls and i'm not even being funny i'm being very serious right so the problem with what david bannon is saying and i respect david bannon i really really do the problem is it's simply not practical and it's also not practical it becomes further further impractical

if we are not going to support our institutions with the type of money and funding that they need for it not just maintenance but also expansion they can use some of that good ukraine window right and they're money for it i mean there's money that's what it comes down to is like in its whole reparations conversation when pollsters and social scientists ask white people, is it a problem with the amount of money? No. Is it who should qualify? No. It's that they don't believe black people are deserving.

And so it all comes down to whether we are deserving despite that not only did we – were we drivers of the wealth, we actually were the most valuable commodity in this country let alone the actual physical structures that we built and the whole entire economy taking this colony this small outlier colony into the global power it is today right but it's a matter of what they want to do still we're not deserving to your earlier question charlamagne when you talk about democratic messaging if foreign aid the two words foreign aid right regardless of where it's going i don't want to get in that discussion but if foreign aid are not bad words then reparations should not be about absolutely that's really that's the core of what we're talking about and i don't mean to to make it a singularly an issue about reparations but i'm just using that as an example for when i when i use the term that that term side piece or like, oh, well, you know, you kind of, we're going to deprioritize your interest.

If you can say foreign aid to whatever countries, plural, that you're going to say them, then why can't we have this conversation about something that's directly, you know, much each one of those bombs, our community costs millions that we drop in. You know,

you know, Donald Trump is going to say it at some point over the next few months, Donald Trump is going to say, we keep some point over the next few months, Donald Trump is going to say, we keep sending all of this money to Ukraine and all of these countries. We're funding NATO. That could be used for black people reparations. It's just going to be a lie.

And watch what it does. Remember what I said? Remember what I said? Remember what y'all said earlier about people don't even want to say black people's name? Don't even say black men's name? He's going to say my blacks my blacks deserve reparations my blacks my blacks watch well we appreciate you brothers for joining us uh tell them they can catch you uh because i see uh when does the series come on so it is the the the old

so uncounted millions of power reparations where our episode five drops tomorrow it's the most amazing reparation story you never heard america actually paid reparations once before for enslavers and a black man somehow finessed his way into the system and actually got reparation for slavery episode five drops tomorrow thursday all right and you can also check out black men in america the roads of 2024 on peacock is streaming live all right well thank you brothers for joining us charles coleman Jermaine Lee. It's The Breakfast Club. Good morning.

Wake that ass up. It's in the morning. The Breakfast Club. Hey, y'all. Niminy here. I'm the host of a brand new history podcast for kids and families called Historical Records. Executive produced by Questlove, The Story Pirates, and John Glickman,

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for our show Civic Cipher. That's right. We discuss social issues, especially those that affect black and brown people, but in a way that informs and empowers all people. We discuss everything from prejudice to politics to police violence, and we try to give you the tools to create positive change in your home, workplace, and social circle. We're going to learn how to become better allies to each other. So join us each Saturday for Civic Cipher on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Muhammad Ali, George Foreman, 1974.

George Foreman was champion of the world. Ali was smart and he was handsome. The story behind the Rumble in the Jungle is like a Hollywood movie. But that is only half the story. There's also James Brown, Bill Withers, B.B. King, Miriam Akiba. All the biggest black artists on the planet. Together in Africa.

It was a big deal. Listen to Rumble, Ali, Foreman, and The Soul of 74 on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Hey, this is Justin Richman, host of the Broken Record Podcast. Every week, I or my co-host, Leah Rose,

sit down with the artists you love to get unparalleled creative insight. Our new series is looking at one of the most influential jazz labels ever, Blue Note Records. You'll hear from artists like legendary bassist Ron Carter, singer-songwriter Noah Jones, and guitarist Julian Lodge.

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