The Breakfast Club - INTERVIEW: Vivek Ramaswamy On Pulling Out Of Prez Race, Support For Trump, How To End Racism + More

Episode Date: January 24, 2024

See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

Hey y'all, Niminy here. I'm the host of a brand new history podcast for kids and families called Historical Records. Executive produced by Questlove, The Story Pirates, and John Glickman, Historical Records brings history to life through hip-hop. Flash, slam, another one gone. Bash, bam, another one gone. The crack of the bat and another one gone. The tip of the cap, there's another one gone. Each episode is about a different inspiring figure from history. Like this one about Claudette Colvin, a 15-year-old girl in Alabama who refused to give up her seat on the city bus nine whole months before Rosa Parks did the same thing. Check it. And it began with me. Did you know, did you know? I wouldn't give up my seat. Nine months before Rosa, it was called a gold mine. Get the kids in your life excited about history by tuning in to Historical Records.

Because in order to make history, you have to make some noise. Listen to Historical Records on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Hey guys, I'm Kate Max. You might know me from my popular online series, The Running Interview Show, where I run with celebrities, athletes, entrepreneurs, and more. After those runs, the conversations keep going. That's what my podcast, Post Run High, is all about. It's a chance to sit down with my guests and dive even deeper into their stories, their journeys, and the thoughts that arise once we've hit the pavement together. Listen to Post Run High on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. We've got chills, thrills, and stories that'll make you wish the lights stayed on.

So join me, won't you? Let's dive into the eerie unknown together. Sleep tight, if you can. Listen to Haunting on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Hi, I'm Marie. And I'm Sydney. And we're Mess. Well, not a mess, but on our podcast called Mess, we celebrate all things messy.

But the gag is not everything is a mess. Sometimes it's just living. Yeah, things like J-Lo on her third divorce. Living. Girls trip to Miami. Mess. Breaking up with your girlfriend while on Instagram Live. Living.

It's kind of mess. Yeah. Well, you get it. Got it? Live, love, mess. Listen to Mess with Sydney Washington and Marie Faustin on iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Welcome to Gracias Come Again, a podcast by Honey German, where we get real and dive straight into todo lo actual y viral. We're talking música, los premios, el chisme, and all things trending in my cultura.

I'm bringing you all the latest happening in our entertainment world and some fun and impactful interviews with your combos on the issues that matter to us, and it's all packed with gems, fun, straight-up comedia, and that's a song that only nuestra gente can sprinkle. Listen to Gracias Come Again on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Wake that ass up in the morning. The Breakfast Club. Morning, everybody. It's DJ Envy, Charlemagne, the guy. We are The Breakfast Club.

We got a special guest in the building. He's back. Vivek Ramaswamy. Welcome back. It's good to see you, man. Did I say your name right this time? Thank you for asking. It's Vivek, like cake.

Vivek. Like cake. Okay, Vivek. Vivek, you got it. Well, last time you were here, you were running for president. That's right. You were in that race. Ancient past.

Ancient past, but you rose. You rose six days ago? Must have been. Feels like an eternity at this point. Yeah. But now your roles have changed and you're no longer running for president. That's right. So for people that don't know, why are you not on that run anymore?

What made you pull out? Yeah, I mean, look, the people of Iowa spoke loud and clear. I got about 8%, which I started at not 0%, but I started at 0.0%. And we made it to 8% in Iowa. If you looked at who were the second choice to Donald Trump in Iowa, so if he weren't on the ballot, I would have been number one. But the people spoke loud and clear. They wanted not only an America first candidate, but they wanted the one who they voted for before and they want him to get back in there and get that job done. And so for me, the first moment that it became clear

that I was not going to be the next president, you know, absent terrible things happening in this country that we don't want to see happen, I pulled myself out of the race, gave support to Donald Trump. And I think that's the right thing for the country is to allow the people of this country to make a choice. It's the beauty of our country. It's not a monarchy. It's not an autocracy. The people of this country get make a choice. It's the beauty of our country. It's not a monarchy.

It's not an autocracy. The people of this country get to decide who runs the country. And the people spoke loud and clear in Iowa. And so that night. You said you were number one behind Trump? No, no, no. Among second choice to Trump. So among the people who voted for Trump.

Okay. Who would be their second choice? That would actually have been me. Got you, got you, got you. So you think about America first, right? And I don't use the word Republican anymore. I think that label has lost its meaning. I think the Republican Party,

I think both parties really need to rediscover who they are. But the movement that I'm part of and that I was aiming to lead was one that says we put the interests of American citizens first. America first includes all Americans, but we put our citizens American citizens first. America first includes all Americans, but we put our interests, our citizens' interests first. Anyway, I got about 8% of the vote. Donald Trump

got what? Well over 50% of the people who voted for him. Most of them would rather see me than anybody else, but they were crystal clear about who they wanted to see representing that movement and representing this country in the White House. And so that night we were prepared to go to New Hampshire. I could tell you for a fact, we were not in the headspace to drop out, but we saw the results come in. We were going to go to the campaign office. Instead, I just took some time with my wife. We went, we had an apartment in Des Moines. We took about 25 minutes trying to look at it every which way we're squinting at, you know, different statistics that would say, okay, here's the path forward. Then we just took a step back and said, all right, what is God's plan here?

It has revealed itself, and it doesn't include me being the Republican nominee for U.S. president. How much do you spend, man? Personal money? Yeah. Close to $30 million. Damn. Yeah.

Out of your own pocket. Jesus Christ. And so what happens with that money? Is it a tax write-off? Nope. Or is it gone? It's gone. Wow.

And I've donated. I mean, I've gotten in the habit of donating my money to charitable causes over the last five years or so after we've done well in this country. I didn't grow up in money. But I also have been pretty clear. I think the inheritance we want to give our kids isn't a bunch of green pieces of paper. We see what that does to people. It's a country that is the same one that allowed me to live the American dream that I have. And so we were looking at this charitably for a while. Is there a way to be philanthropic? Is there a way to be a political donor? I put all that to one side and said, the best way to do this is to actually put your effort and put your, not just

your money where your mouth is, but your effort where your mouth is. And so the biggest sacrifice we made wasn't the money. I mean, to take a year doing what we did. My wife is the hero of this story to tell you the truth is she was, she's a surgeon at Ohio state. She did not compromise on her schedule once. She's one of the few people in the country that does a special form of throat surgery where most of the people she's treating, they haven't swallowed food for years. She's one of the few people in the country who does a special form of throat surgery where most of the people she's treating, they haven't swallowed food for years. She's one of the few people in the country who does a surgery where she can actually fix them. They can swallow food

after years of not having swallowed food. And early on in the campaign, I mean, we know this is going to be grueling. We looked at different options. Should she change her schedule? She was pretty firm, and I respect her for it, saying that these are people who depend on her for doing what she does, but she's going to go all in side by side with me without

compromising on her career and what she's doing that's excellent for people that depend on her. And we made that work. And so with two kids, one is about to be four years old, one is about a year and a half old. The sacrifice of actually putting the effort in was even, I would say, more significant than the financial investment. What's the most you ever lost in just an investment in life? Oh, the ups and downs on a given day or even in a given month would be greater than $30 million just based on how the market goes. Yeah, yeah, yeah. So it's within the, it's within, if you look at it, actually, that makes me feel better when you put it that way.

It's within the margin of error of how it goes, but I'm not one of these people that is, you know, trying to hoard and figure out how many of the green piece of paper can we pass on versus what's the point of generating wealth if you're not actually using it to advance your own convictions. And so if we'd gone deeper in this race, we would have put more in as well. So it wasn't a financial decision, but it was a decision that the people of the country had spoken, made their will known clearly. There's many ways to change the country and I'm all in to do what I believe is good for the country and we'll do that in whatever way we can going forward. This will make money for you. I'm sure you'll write a book. I'm sure you'll be an analyst. Books don't really make serious money. I will make money for you. I'm sure you'll write a book. I'm sure you'll be an analyst. Books don't really make serious money.

I've written best-selling books. I mean, they're not needle movers for me, but I've written books because I care about expressing the ideas in there. I don't particularly care to monetize this experience. I mean, if you're sitting in my shoes, you would sort of understand. You know, some people, politicians, come out and give speeches and make a million and a half bucks on a given year. We put 30 into this campaign without really thinking about it, you know, in a big way. And so I'm not, I'm not in this to monetize the

experience, but I do want to make sure that what we began, which I do think is a different movement outside of the traditional bounds of the Republican and Democratic Party, but I believe could be a vehicle to unite the country continues. And so I'm not going anywhere. I haven't decided what I'm doing next. What's your relationship with Trump? What is your relationship? Yeah, we have a good relationship, mutual respect. Do you speak often? Actually, from time to time. Yeah. I mean, especially over the course of this campaign. I met him a few years ago when I wrote my first book, Woke Inc. We ended up having dinner.

And I think to both of our surprise, we actually hit it off. I didn't expect to. I don't think he expected to. And so since then, we've been in touch. And over the course of the campaign, we've obviously gotten to know each other pretty well. And so I'm going to be as helpful as I can to him. Why didn't you expect to hit it off with him? Well, it's because the public impression of what you see of the man, right?

It's filtered through the media. What's the public impression? So I'll just give you, so one of the things that struck me. Is he racist and a bigot? Well, I mean, I didn't buy that stuff. But what I would say is that he's not detail oriented, right? Like you get an impression of a guy who's just floating out around in the clouds, but the people who do the real work must be other people.

And that first dinner we had, I was actually pleasantly shocked by him going into the details of different deals he had done, each of the trade deals. And I pressed him back and forth just because I wanted to get a feel. And this guy definitely on the things he cared about was pretty deep in the details. And I'm a details guy, too. And so I said, oh, OK, that's interesting. Right. Because the public perception and this is back, you know, even before this presidential run was some guy who was running some type of chaotic, bumbling White House didn't necessarily have South Korea and the details of how he actually negotiated some of our arrangements over there. It struck me as a guy who's looking after the United States interest like it's his business, which I thought was impressive and interesting. And so that made me want to continue to at least, OK, this is somebody who I can actually converse with over time. I think he was probably surprised when I started running for president. But I think over the course of the process, he ran into each of the candidates.

I've gotten to know, I would say, pretty much all of the candidates pretty well. And my relationship with Trump has been positive. I think we respect each other. One more question about your business. Are you worried that, you know, people hear your political views, your ideologies on things, and they think that you think it'll impact your business in the future? Yeah, so that's why I stepped down from all of my businesses before running for president. I think that, so this is just me speaking for me, not for anybody else. I think if I was elected president, I would have divested. And if I ever do become president,

I think the right thing to do is to divest all of your holdings. So you're not thinking about what advances your business interest. I'm speaking for myself. Yeah. And so I think that that's what I would do if I were the president. And it also is actually better for your businesses too, because one of the things I did even before running for president was all the boards I was on either stepped off or went on hiatus, nonprofit for profit across the board. Cause I saw this actually happened to me a few years ago. So my first book was, I think I gave it to you last time we were here. I can't remember. Woke Inc was my first book. I was a biotech CEO here in New York city back then.

And you know, I was minding my own business. Wasn't really involved in, you know, the kind of stuff we're talking about today. George Floyd died. There was the demand that every CEO, including a demand of me to make a statement on behalf of BLM. And, you know, I looked at the website, the nuclear family statements. I couldn't really get behind dismantling the nuclear family structure. I didn't think it was the job of a business to be wading into this anyway. And so I decided not to make a statement and said, you know what, our business is unified in the pursuit of medicines to treat patients who need them. And that actually, surprisingly, that statement generated a lot of controversy. Multiple advisors to my company resigned about six months later. And so back then already,

I had the lesson learned that either you're going to speak your mind freely as a citizen, do it separately from your business interests. And so I actually stepped down from my job as CEO back then to write that book. But for me, that was kind of an early warning anyway, that you don't want to mix business and politics. And so I stepped down from all my jobs as a CEO, stepped off all the boards before running for president. If I ever become elected president or were to have become elected president, I would have divested across the board voluntarily.

And I do things a little bit differently than other, you know, business people might be advised to when they're running for president. Do you go back now that you're not running? Go back, meaning? Do you go back on some of those boards? I got to think about it. You know, it's been only a few days and it has been a long time, Charlemagne, since I have been in a position where I actually had a clear card. You know what I mean? So I want to take advantage of that. And the few times I've been in that position before, I can be a restless person. But one of the things I've learned is taking at least a breath to understand.

And I'm still, you know, collecting and processing everything that happened over the last year. I mean, as a life experience, it's a hell of an experience. I mean, the kind of people you've met, the way you've changed as a person through this process, I still want to process that and land that first before I decide what exactly comes next. But I think whatever it is, it's going to be focused on having the impact on the country that I wanted to have going in.

And we're going to figure out what that is. You have to explain something to me, right? Because when I watched the GOP nominees, with the exception of Chris Christie, I always thought, how are any of them ever going to beat Trump if they're not even willing to challenge Trump on anything? Well, I will say that I do have about 10% of policy areas where I'm different from Trump, but that wasn't actually ever going to be the difference for me. The case I made to the voters was if you like Donald Trump's policies, but you want a leader from the next generation with fresh legs who can reach and lead the next generation of Americans, nobody's going to do that like I am.

Forty percent of our donors to this campaign and had whatever, six figure numbers of small dollar donors, 40% of them were first time ever donors to the GOP. And most of them were young, actually, or many of them were young. And so we're reaching a different generation in a way that nobody else in the Republican Party, including Trump really was. And I also do think that's what's going to be required to really take our America first movement to the next level. So that was the case I made to the voters. And I think a lot of people found that resonant. A lot of people love that who ended up voting for Donald Trump anyway. Say we love you. But for now, this is still Donald Trump's turn to get his job done that he wasn't able to get done fully the first time around in one term when they bogged down his presidency and everything else. I mean, that was the clear message from the voters. But that was the case that I made. Every other candidate had their own, you know, shade of lemonade that was slightly different.

But for me, it was if you want the same, basically the same policies, in some ways, I'm going far further than Trump did with that America first agenda. But if you want the America first of the future, then pick the candidate of the future with fresh legs coming in from the outside, unencumbered and able to reach the next generation. And I would have been the youngest president ever elected if elected. But why vote for the second rate version of something? Well, I don't think it's second rate. The reason I say second rate is because y'all act like it's the fresh, the fresh version. But y'all don't act like that.

Y'all act like Trump is king. I disagree with that. you said i mean you saw donald trump in the late phase of the race you know we had some we had some healthy friction it's a it's competition it's in the heat of competition but i don't i don't bend the knee to anybody man because when you look at uh the numbers in iowa and you see that about half of the republicans did go out there and vote for desantis some voted for nikki some even you know voted for you so clearly there's some republic looking for something different, but it feels like everybody was too busy trying to either be Trump's VP or vying to be for a position in

Trump's cabinet. Some of y'all just look like Trump's lackeys. So if I- Yeah, man, I can't speak for the others. So it's hard to look at you as a leader if you're moving like a lackey. Yeah, well, I think I disagree with that characterization. I mean, I think that the right answer, the bottom line is Donald Trump, I think, did advance a lot of the right policies for this country, kept us out of war and grew the economy. So I don't disagree with the policies one bit. But the question is, how do we actually reunite a country and reach a next generation on that basis? And I ran for president because I thought I was going to be best positioned to do that. Not as anybody's lacking, not some Republican party pawn lackey, not Donald Trump's lackey, not anybody's lackey.

But as my own man reaching the next generation, honestly, speaking hard truths that nobody else was able to speak in the campaign. Yes, that's what I was doing in the race. What are the hard truths? Well, I think a lot of hard truths. I mean, you could think straight down the list. Chris Christie spoke a lot of hard truths. I don't think so. Chris Christie was lobbying Donald Trump and licking his feet about three years ago after Donald Trump's first term. He was, but y'all were doing a lot of licking of the feet. I disagree with you, man.

I just disagree with you. I think it's true for some people. I mean, these people have been asking, all the politicians in this race have been asking for money and endorsements for Trump for years, and then Monday morning quarterback in some decision he made.

You know, Chris Christie, he was a lobbyist. And by the way, this is a side point. I don't think any politician should be allowed to be a lobbyist for at least 10 years after they've left their position in government. But this guy ends up becoming a lobbyist on behalf of special pharmaceutical clients in New Jersey for coronavirus cash from Donald Trump, licking his feet, doing his debate prep while lobbying him,

and then suddenly decides and has an epiphany. This is after Trump's first term, for God's sake, decides he's going to make it a shtick to do the anti-Donald Trump thing. My view is I've been clear. I love Trump's policies. I love what he did for the country. But you don't just parrot his policies. You parrot his conspiracy theories. Well, actually, to be clear, a lot of what I've actually stated on behalf of my viewers of what happened, the truth of what happened, and a lot of what the government has, I think, suppressed, they're not conspiracy theories. They're realities that even Donald Trump hasn't touched. So I'm speaking with my own convictions, what they are, and I'm not a political analyst either, right? You guys probably better at that than me. No, I'm not. Maybe you are, but that's not my job anyway. I'm sharing my convictions,

and my whole view of this whole campaign is I'm going to tell people who I am and what I stand for. And if they want to vote for that, I will volunteer to be the next president. And if they don't, then I'm not going to be the next president. But I put my head in the pillow at night and know that I at least shared with you what my true convictions actually are. Have you talked to him about being possibly a running mate? Have you had that conversation? No, I think that we've had an open conversation about the fact that I'm in for the country to make change in a lot of different ways. You know, I mean, the truth is, I think it's important that everybody know what they're getting with me. And I think there's ways to drive change in this country that don't just come through government. That's what I've been

doing my whole career anyway. Now, there's a lot of speculation out there. And, you know, if that came up, it would be a serious conversation that I'd be willing to have. And I'd want to make sure that we're on the same page to deliver for the country. One of the things I've learned is from building businesses is the people who you work with, you know, the chemistry between them, alignment on the vision, that's really important. And if you have, you know, if you have a little bit of daylight early on, that can become, you know, wide open gaps later on in the course of building a business. I think it's not going to be any different in running the government. So I believe that he and I are deeply aligned, but I think that if that were a serious conversation,

I'd want to make sure it was the right choice for him, just as it was the right choice for the country and for me. And if it was, that's something I would be willing to evaluate. I read you're not on the short list anymore, but I heard him say y'all would be working. Who the heck knows, yeah. I heard him say, he said that y'all would be working together for years to come. I think that I'm in this for the country, so I'm going to do whatever allows me to have

maximal impact on the country. I believe there's lots of ways to have impact in the country that don't come just through government service, but that is something that's required right now. I do think the government bureaucracy in Washington, D.C., what we call the administrative state, the permanent state, the shadow government, the deep state, I do think that that is the real threat to liberty in this country. I do think it's the real threat to prosperity in this country goes beyond black versus white or Republican versus Democrat. I think this is about the permanent state, the managerial class, the bureaucracy versus the citizen. And so if that is a focus of

Donald Trump and believes that he needs to actually shut down that deep state, as I believe we need to, I think he has that conviction. I definitely do. Then, yes, absolutely. I'm going to go in there and do everything I can to make that happen. But that's what my focus was in this race. And I think there's a lot of ways to drive change even outside of government to at least kill the swamp outside of government as well. And so that's what I'm evaluating right now. I haven't made any solid plans on what comes next. You set the record for the most campaign events ever in Iowa.

Yeah, absolutely. Why do you think that didn't translate to voters? Well, I mean, if you look at where we started, I think that most people started 0%, stayed 0%. Most people started 0.0% stayed 0.0% and so for me coming out as a guy whose name most people couldn't pronounce at the start didn't know some of them still can't pronounce in a state like Iowa and you know I'm beating former vice presidents U.S. senators multiple governors in that same race I'm proud of what we accomplished in a short period of time I only decided about a year ago is actually exactly when I even decided seriously to run

for president. I declared for president less than a year ago. And so to go from being there to being the solid number four candidate in this race, beating out governors and former vice presidents and senators, I think we accomplished a lot. And I think the people of this country, that doesn't usually happen. And so I think that was a testament to a distinctive message and a distinctive candidate who is willing to be unshackled as I was in this race. And so did I expect to do better? Yeah, I expect to be the next president. That's why I ran. I did not. This is not an exercise in futility. I didn't write a 30 million dollar check or close to 30 million of my

own money because I believe that this was going to be a second place endeavor. But am I proud of what we did? Absolutely. And I think that the people of Iowa, if you asked somebody at the start of this race, when I declared, would I have even made it through the fall, let alone through where we did in Iowa, they would have said, that's crazy. And you know what?

I think that we're just getting warmed up. You said something earlier that I agree with. You said that, you know, you feel like Democrats and Republicans both need to figure out what their parties are. Yes. And I agree. And I think that starts with Democrats moving away from President Joe Biden. I think that starts with Republicans moving away from from from Donald Trump. So it makes me wonder, like, why have you chosen to endorse Donald Trump as opposed to somebody like Nikki Haley?

Yes. So I think this goes to the ideological divide in the GOP, actually, because I do think that there's a choice on the table. It may be that I come out on a different place. I think I do than you do within the Republican Party is one direction

of the Republican Party is a belief that it is the job of the U.S. government to play the role of global policemen, to establish a surveillance state here at home, to be able to defend what they will call national security. I'm not criticizing it.

I'm just describing what the view is. And that whatever it takes, fighting those foreign wars, having people who have interests in them, running the government, and people who are adopting a surveillance state here at home, that that's the right vision. We've had that Republican Party before.

I didn't vote for it. This is George Bush, Dick Cheney. Back in 2004, I voted libertarian because I did not want to vote for that agenda in the time of the Iraq War and otherwise. Nikki Haley, I believe, is a representation of that George Bush era Republican Party. There are people in the Republican Party that want to see that be the future of the Republican Party that want to fork over more money to Ukraine, that believe and agree with Nikki Haley that for our national security, we do need to require every citizen to tie their social media account and their Internet profiles to their government issued ID and driver's license. I disagree with

these things, but that is a view. I think Dick Cheney would agree with that. I think the post 9-11 Patriot Act proponents would agree with that. I think that the George Bush era, Karl Rove era, Lindsey Graham Republicans would agree with that. And that's one vision for the Republican Party. It's not mine. My vision for the Republican Party is one that you could call a libertarian nationalist vision, which says that two simple ideas. The people we elect to run the government should be the ones who actually run the government, not the bureaucracy. The people we actually elect should be the ones that actually make the government, not the bureaucracy. The people we actually elect should be the ones that actually make the laws,

not a bunch of bureaucrats. And number two is the moral duty that they owe. The sole moral duty of the U.S. president and every elected official is to the citizens of this country, not another one. That's a very different vision than the Dick Cheney, Carl Rove, Nikki Haley,

George Bush, John bolton view which exists in the republican party that don't look like that's the choice that don't look like trump's republican party either though well i think it's i think i i respectfully disagree with you there i was in this because i believe i could i was going to lead that to the next level with clarity but i think that i think that donald trump have corporate donors in there and you know that they're beholden so i'll tell you what i favor i i'm not speaking for anybody else but myself here i'm here as a private citizen today not even as a political candidate I'll tell you what I favor. I'm not speaking for anybody else but myself here. I'm here as a private citizen today, not even as a political candidate.

I'll tell you what I stand for. I don't think that we should have super PACs in American politics. I think the super PACs, I don't know if you're familiar with this concept, they're a cancer on American politics. There's a movie about it. It's called 88.

You should watch it. Okay. It's on Starz and Hulu right now. All right. Sounds good. Back to my, that'll probably be my inaugural movie. I haven't watched one in a long time.

I think that the super PACs are a cancer on American movie. I haven't watched one in a long time. I think that the super PACs are cancer on American politics. I think lobbying is a cancer on American politics. As I said, I don't think you should be able to leave the government and lobby that same government ever, but at least for 10 years after you've left. If you've done special favors for a company, I don't think you should be able to join the board of that company. This is my issue with Nikki Haley. Right. She's scratched Boeing's back, gave hundreds of millions of dollars of special benefits in South Carolina. As soon as she leaves, government has a board seat waiting on none other than Boeing, the company that apparently can't even fly planes in the sky anymore. I think that I don't think congressmen should be allowed to trade individual stocks. I don't think bureaucrats should be allowed to trade individual stocks. Actually, my first job was in New York City at the hedge fund world.

I worked with some pretty smart people here and I've met most congressmen. I could tell you they would be better off not trading individual stocks unless they were actually using inside information from Congress and from their bureaucracies to their advantage. I don't think that should be allowed. Now, these aren't Republican ideas or Democrat ideas. I think we need to get all the influence. Everything you just described. Both parties. Both parties. I mean, if you look at I mean, I hit Nikki Haley on this, but you take Elizabeth Warren. You everybody knows what her salary is.

And now her net worth is disclosed to 68 million bucks. I know you make 68 million bucks and it is not from collecting the salary of being a U.S. senator. And so if you look at the net worth, it's actually an interesting exercise. If you look at the net worth of people who have spent their entire career in government, that math does not add up. And so that's one of the core elements of my campaign. I think it drew a lot of people to us, which is the people we elect to run the government, the congressman, the senators, the president. Say what you will, agree or disagree.

They should be the ones who actually run the government. It's not too much to ask. Today, that's not the case. They're all puppets. It's really the permanent state, the bureaucrats that are running the show. And the second thing is the moral obligation they owe is to the citizens of this country, not another one. So, yes, I come down on the side of saying that we should be using our taxpayer resources. We should be using our military resources. Radical idea to protect an invasion across our own border sooner than we're using it

to protect an invasion across somebody else's border. I don't think that's too much to ask. But the fact that that's controversial, both in the mainstream media narrative of American politics today and even in the Republican Party says that, yes,

the thing we need to decide in the Republican Party is not me or Ron DeSantis or Nikki Haley versus Donald Trump. Forget the personalities. Who are we and what do we actually stand for? Hey, guys, I'm Kate Max. You might know me from my popular online series, The Running Interview Show, where I run with celebrities, athletes, entrepreneurs and more.

After those runs, the conversations keep going. That's what my podcast Post Run High is all about. It's a chance to sit down with my guests and dive even deeper into their stories, their journeys, and the thoughts that arise once we've hit the pavement together. You know that rush of endorphins you feel after a great workout? Well, that's when the real magic happens. So if you love hearing real inspiring stories from the people, you know, follow and admire join me every week for post run high. It's where we take the conversation beyond the run and get into the heart of it all. It's lighthearted, pretty crazy, and very fun. Listen to post run high on the I heart radio app, Hey, everyone. This is Courtney Thorne-Smith, Laura Layton, and Daphne Zuniga.

On July 8, 1992, apartment buildings with pools were never quite the same as Melrose Place was introduced to the world. It took drama and mayhem to an entirely new level. We are going to be reliving every hookup, every scandal, every backstab, blackmail and explosion, and every single wig removal together. Secrets are revealed as we rewatch every moment with you. Special guests from back in the day will be dropping by. You know who they are. Sydney, Allison, and Joe are back together on Still the Place with a trip down memory lane and back to Melrose Place. So listen to Still the Place on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen to podcasts.

So y'all, this is Questlove, and I'm here to tell you about a new podcast I've been working on with the Story Pirates and John Glickman called Historical Records. It's a family-friendly podcast. Yeah, you heard that right. A podcast for all ages. One you can listen to and enjoy with your kids starting on September 27th. I'm going to toss it over to the host of Historical Records, Nimany, to tell you all about it.

Make sure you check it out. Hey, y'all. Nimany here. I'm the host of a brand-new history podcast for kids and families called Historical Records. Historical Records brings history to life through hip-hop. Flash, slam, another one gone. Bash, bam, another one gone. The crack of the bat and another one gone. The tip of the cap, there's another one gone.

Each episode is about a different inspiring figure from history, like this one about Claudette Colvin, a 15-year-old girl in Alabama who refused to give up her seat on the city bus nine whole months before Rosa Parks did the same thing. Check it. And it began with me. Did you know, did you know?

I wouldn't give up my seat. Nine months before Rosa, it was Claudette Colvin. Get the kids in your life excited about history by tuning in to Historical Records. Because in order to make history, you have to make some noise. Listen to Historical Records on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Hola mi gente, it's Honey German and I'm bringing you Gracias, Come Again. The podcast where we dive deep into the world of Latin culture, musica, peliculas, and entertainment with some of the biggest names in the game.

If you love hearing real conversations with your favorite Latin celebrities, artists, and culture shifters, this is the podcast for you. We're talking real conversations with our Latin stars, from actors and artists to musicians and creators, sharing their stories, struggles, and successes. You know it's going to be filled with chisme laughs and all the vibes that you love. Each week, we'll explore everything from music and pop culture to deeper topics like identity, community, and breaking down barriers in all sorts of industries. Don't miss out on the fun, el té caliente, and life stories. Join me for Gracias Come Again, a podcast by Honey German,

where we get into todo lo actual y viral. Listen to Gracias Come Again on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Hey, this is Justin Richmond, host of the Broken Record Podcast. Every week, I or my co-host, Aaliyah Rose, sit down with the artists you love to get unparalleled creative insight. Now we have a special series

where we speak with the artists behind one of the most influential jazz labels of the 20th century, Blue Note Records. You'll hear from artists like nine-time Grammy Award winning Noah Jones,

John Mellencamp and Madonna collaborator Michelle Indegiocello, and from the legendary Ron Carter, former member of the Miles Davis Quintet, who's also played with Herbie Hancock, and on Gil Scott Heron's The Revolution Will Not Be Televised.

Join us over at Broken Record to hear stories behind the legendary label. Listen on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen to podcasts. I think the Republican Party should become the party of 1776. The party that says, we stand for the ideals of the American Revolution. Self-governance, free speech, open debate, that you get to speak your minds openly

as long as I get to in return. You know, we weren't included in none of that, though. Black people, brown people like yourself. Yeah. Aged people like Envy. We were never included. I'm black, sir. But people, brown people like yourself. Yeah. Age people like Envy. We were never included in Envy. But let's celebrate the progress we have made towards those ideals. Because here's the thing about the United States of America.

We're a nation founded of, I don't mean this as a joke, we're not a nation of gods. We're a nation of men. The difference between man and God is that man is imperfect. Yet we're a nation still founded on ideals. But only white men founded those ideas. That's the problem. That's in the past, man. That's that man is imperfect. Yet we're a nation still founded on ideals. But only white men founded those ideas. That's the problem. That's in the past, man.

That's not in the past. You know, the other day, I can't remember the site, what he said, they referred to as a 7-Eleven worker at the White House. Oh, the Babylonian. Yeah, like, this is satire.

And that's a right-wing conservative thing. This is satire. But that's how they look at us. That ain't satire. That's how they look at you and that's how they look at us. Can I just, what do you think?

It was a joke. I took it as a joke. Actually, if you read into the article, which I did, it was actually poking fun at a lot of the left-wing self-awareness here. What do you think Martin Luther King would say? We just had MLK Day. We celebrated. That was the day that I was. What do you think he would say about where we are as a country today?

He said, I hope my four children grow up in a country where they're judged not on the color of their skin, but on the content of their character. When he said that about 60 years ago and he woke up to the country, let's say he just teletransported to the country we're in right now. Do you think he would say that, oh, my gosh, we have regressed or that, oh, I'm very upset about where we've landed? Or he sees a country where everybody's able to go to the ballot box and cast their vote.

Anybody's able to start a business. Does everybody start from the same place? No. There's a lot of voter suppression that keeps black people from voting. I'm asking you a question, though. If you just snap of a finger from 1963 or 1964, whenever it was, about 60 years ago. He would say there's progress, but people are still being judged.

I think he would say this is as close to the... And so is there racism today? Yes, there is. Of course there is. I have a theory on how to deal with it at this point, which is different from 1960, which is different from 1870, but today. Because there's different stages in a nation's life I think require different

responses. How would you deal with it? Because obviously they said there's no racism. It's not a racist country. So I think right now, I'm not saying this is the answer 60 years ago but right now today i think the right answer is actually to let it atrophy to irrelevance it's like the equivalence i'm a biologist by background that's my background if a virus gets so low right for racism is the virus if it gets so low in the bloodstream at a certain point, the natural host immune system can just take care of it and it atrophies to irrelevance. But sometimes the way people actually die is COVID is an example of this. The way people die

of a virus isn't actually from the effect of the virus. It's from an overactive immune system that kills the very host organ in the name of fighting a virus long after it's gone. And I think that that's close to what we're happening in this country with the fight against racism is we are creating new racism today that I believe would not exist if we had a certain point would say we're going to let it go and move on. Give us an example. What's new racism? New anti-black racism. A new wave of anti-black racism that I think is beginning in this country because of people's feeling that they are being denied something on the basis of their skin color in the name of these DEI policies. I think that that's actually existed. OG anti-black racism just never went away.

I'm not talking about OG. I'm talking about Gen 2 is what I'm talking about. I'll give you an example. Give us an example because I'm lost. I OG, I'm talking about, I'm not, Gen 2 is what I'm talking about. I'll give you an example. Give us an example, because I'm lost. So I've run a company, and I've, both in my campaigns and my companies, and I don't say this like, oh, I hired black people or black women and put them in roles and positions. I don't care what skin color they are. But it so happens that in multiple of my companies, enterprises, businesses, even in campaign,

people in significant positions of authority, leadership, happen to be black and black women included. All right. So what? They're the best people for the job is why I put them there. And one of my companies, I mean, it turns out was one of the highest paid, if not highest paid person at the company. OK, you hear what the other people will say who weren't as good to get that job, which is to say, oh, she only got that job because she's a black woman, which is unfair to her. It's unfair to the company. It's unfair to the company. It's unfair to the people who led the company to make meritocratic decisions. And yet they are able to say that and have that impression because we do live in a corporate America where pharmaceutical companies and other companies say that we need to have quota systems

that 25% of our workforce and vice president ranks or above need to be people of a certain skin color. Imagine if we didn't say that, but we just did it by merit. We would probably get to the same place or something darn close to it anyway. People wouldn't do it for merit. But without that second wave of race, I'm telling you out of my self-interest is why I did it, right? I grew up in this country, came from nothing, built multi-billion dollar businesses in part by hiring the best person for the job. So it was self-interest that guided me to do it. Yeah. But the reason they have to have those 25% quotas is because of systemic and structural racism. Let me tell you one of the most best interactions I had in Iowa was with a black pastor, not that many of them in Iowa, I promise you. He came to one of our events.

The first thing he says is, before I ask my question, I'm going to do a pushup challenge with you. Can you actually handle 10 push-ups? So we hit 10 push-ups on the spot. Then he asked me the hard question. I don't believe you did 10 push-ups on the spot. I did 10 push-ups on the spot. I did 30 push-ups on the spot. I don't believe you.

Why not? Do it. You want to hit it right now? Right now. I already did 30 this morning. Let me see. You want to do it with me? I'll do it with you.

Pop them out. Let's do it. That's easy. Let's do it. Here, get the blood flowing, man. All right. Ready to go? Vivek.

We're going to do 30? Vivek and charlamagne you want to add some burpees to it all right let's do it oh he says to add some burpees let's go one oh yeah oh push-ups man oh wow wow he's just gonna push up it's fine we'll pound him out wow i'm at 20. you're going to be so tired after this. Not me. You fought it. You fought it?

You did. Oh, my goodness. What kind of fight was it? That's 30 easy. He's beat red. He's beat red. He's beat red. Good job.

Good job. Good job. Good job. Good job. This is one of the things I missed from the campaign. Now you said ask him the hard questions. So that's what we do. He got me out of breath.

And then he asked me the hard question, which is one of our 10 truths in the campaign. Okay. Was reverse racism is racism. And the thing he asked me is, which is a question you would ask me. What does that mean in the context of systemic racism and historical inequality in the U.S.? Grab that water. Need the water?

Yeah, I'll take it. The teas are a little hot. Yeah, exactly. You shouldn't fall so easily to peer pressure, but Vick. Oh, that's good. I added my burpees, man. I was trying to peer pressure you into the burpees. But he's a, it was a healthy but skeptical question

and i'll tell you what i told him which is he's still trying to catch at breath. At a certain point, we have to embrace, because he's a pastor, right? And so I was trying to think about how to speak the language that we both share in common. The virtue of mercy, forgiveness. So this is not to say that we're going to deny something that's happened in the country. Because I think that is an approach some people try to take, denialism, right? Oh, that didn't happen.

No, I'm not taking that approach. That's what Nikki Haley did last week. Or two weeks ago, whatever it was. Yeah, that's what Tim Scott has done. That's what the vice president has done. Joe Biden has done. They all say, oh, America is not a racist country. Yeah, or the history, right?

But at a certain point, I think here's the approach to national unity is, I believe, and I think it's the truth. At a certain point, the right answer is clemency, is mercy. There's a time for mercy and there's a time for justice.

And sometimes those are in tension with each other. But I think that now is a time for mercy i think we have reached not the ultimate promised land what did mlk say i may not get there with you but we will get there one day and i think that at a certain point when you get there it's when you're closest to the promised land that there's a temptation to actually focus on where you were at the start. But I think that we have to resist that temptation and say that, you know what? At a certain point in time, it's like when that virus is almost cleared. It's still a little bit of a left, but it's almost cleared to say that we're going to let it atrophy to irrelevance. And I think that's the point we're at right now,

or else I worry we're creating more race consciousness in a way that creates more division rather than less right now. And that's one of my core issues with the so-called DEI agenda. So it's not to deny anything else, and it's a hard thing to say, well, I was wrong. Well, how can you just say clemency and forgiveness now? And now I'm going to say some things that might make you upset then but then you could have a bunch of other people that make a claim on something that they were wrong with or japanese people who are in internment

camps or jewish americans or anybody else we can all play that game and the reason you need the and then it becomes a currency because of systemic and structural racism can you admit or just agree that this country there is systemic and structural racism in this you admit or just agree that this country, there is systemic and structural racism in this country? I have to know what those terms mean, Charlemagne, to be able to answer. You don't know what systemic racism is? You just used it. I said racism. You said systemic and structural racism. You said structural racism. In stating the argument for the other side of what's used. I don't think systemic racism, it's a little bit of a cop-out, right? I know what racism is. We know there's inequalities in the health care system we know there's inequalities in the justice system

we know these things all right so has there historically been in this country yes there has yes right and i think that what we want to do is eliminate civil rights movement right and actually a lot of what i'm standing for for example is i think that there are civil rights inequalities right now when it comes to your political beliefs. I think that that's actually something that exists right now. So the same FBI that was going after Martin Luther King 60 years ago on the basis of incorrectly collected tapes. It's a mystery to me that much of the left that should remember this from 60 years ago somehow believes that that same FBI is a saintly organization that is somehow. No, we've never thought that.

We've been telling you all the FBI is corrupt saintly organization that is somehow. No, we've never thought that. We've been telling y'all the FBI is corrupt. Yeah, good. So why does everybody somehow now believe that just because it's Christopher Ray or James Comey who's leading it and says so, everybody believes that if you bring that same point up, suddenly that's a conspiracy theory. That's why it's an investigation. And if there's evidence in that investigation, you make an arrest. And then that's why we have a judicial system.

There's due process. So what we're seeing now is somebody going through due process. So I think that I'm in a different place than you, which is I think the FBI was corrupt then, and I think the FBI is corrupt today. I'm not disagreeing. And so the idea that that same FBI somehow— That doesn't mean that they don't investigate people,

and if you have committed a crime— But I think we can't talk out of both sides of our mouth, right? For a lot of these institutions that have been corrupt in the same way in our past, have there been two standards of justice based on your skin color? Absolutely there have been. If you look at other points today, are there two standards of justice today based on your political beliefs? I think the answer to that question ends up being yes as well. By your logic, the FBI, that means everybody they've ever arrested, they shouldn't have been arrested.

I'm not saying that. But I'm saying that there is there is a by anybody's logic. But you could say that 60 years ago, the same thing that wasn't true then. That isn't true today. But is there a fundamentally corrupting influence and bias today that is based on your political belief? I think the answer is yes. And I think that's as wrong today as it was 60 or 80 years ago for it to be based on your skin color.

And what I've seen on the modern left is now questioning that fundamental corruption in the FBI. And I favor shutting down the FBI. And that's a different position than pretty much every other Republican who says, maybe fire Christopher. I'm the only Republican in this field who thinks that's a good idea. I think shutting down the FBI is a good idea because the only way you're going to reform a corrupt bureaucracy isn't just by reforming it. It's actually by shutting it down.

And so, you know, we got 35,000 employees at the FBI. 20,000 of them are back office bureaucrats. OK, 15,000 of them are cops on the front lines. I'd say send the back office bureaucrats home. The 20,000, we could send them home. 15,000 on the front lines, we will move them. We'll move them to the U.S. Marshals. We'll move them to the DEA, both of which, by the way, have been far more effective at fighting child sex trafficking rings, far more effective at

fighting the fentanyl epidemic, far more effective. You could move them to the Financial Crimes Enforcement Network, go for the financial fraudsters, the SBFs and the FTXs of the world, more specialization than they have at the FBI. So that's the 15,000 cops, but the 20,000 back office bureaucrats send them packing. That's how you actually tackle corruption in the United States and in the administrative state and the bureaucracy. I think we should be able to unite around that. The same FBI, you know what the name of the building is? You know what the headquarters name is of the FBI? J. Edgar Hoover Building. So the same guy who committed, I would say, in many cases, racially charged investigations and breaches of power 60 years ago,

is still the legacy that the current FBI is celebrating today. And yet, when I say things like this, people will put that now in the category of right-wing conspiracy theorists. Did you celebrate the Founding Fathers? When in fact, yes, of course i celebrate the founding fathers but the founding fathers were rapists and murderers i mean charlamagne so i think we're gonna have a deep disagreement on this one these are people who set without the ideals that they set into motion we wouldn't be where we are today tell me about john adams how much how familiar are you with his story i'm not he was an abolitionist in his own time. He was the second president of the United States.

He did not own slaves on principle. Not only that, he actually fought for the liberation of slaves as the second president. What about George Washington, Thomas Jefferson?

I mean, look, a lot of these guys, Thomas Jefferson's one of my favorite presidents. I can always find one person to make a point, but... No, no, no, but I'm making the point

that the people today who are going to go decry our founding fathers for being slaveholders would have been back then the people who were slaveholders. But you do. Right. That's what I'm saying, because they're just following the pack of their time. You do realize what you're doing right now is what you're accusing everybody else is doing because you support Donald Trump. You think that the FBI is targeting Donald Trump and you think Donald Trump has been unfairly

prosecuted. I think not only Donald Trump. But it's because you support Donald Trump. No, it's not because I support Donald Trump. It's because I believe the FBI has been a corrupt institution for the last 70 years. I was against the Iraq war back when this wasn't a Republican position. So the mystery to me is actually a lot of the modern left. I was libertarian. I told you I voted libertarian in my first election in 2004 when I'm 19 years old. The mystery to me, though, is that the same left that was correctly, I think correctly, skeptical of the federal police state, the national security establishment that believe that they're infringing on our civil rights and liberties with the Patriot Act after 9-11 in the 1960s with the incorrect collection of tapes to go after civil rights activists.

That that left somehow has abandoned its longstanding skepticism of the federal police. No, they haven't. Absolutely. I just think that we know Donald Trump has committed crimes. Absolutely it is, which is to say that anybody who then questions that same FBI or apparatus is dismissed as some conspiracy theorist. When in fact, I think that we should, from the left and the right, finally, and the right used to be the ones that defended the federal police state.

If you question it, shut up, sit down, do as you're told. That was the George Bush, Dick Cheney era, which is my problem with Nikki Haley as a representation of that. But today, it's shut up, sit down, down do as you're told if somebody questions that same federal administrative police state i think i think in a different direction no this and so is dismantle that bureaucracy and that's how you actually revive integrity and that should not be a left wing or a right wing point but for my part and i don't know where you were where you where your views were back then i was against the iraq war i was against the patriot act then i'm against it

now i would repeal every remaining vestige of the patriot act today a lot of those vestiges are where your views were back then. I was against the Iraq war. I was against the Patriot Act then. I'm against it now. I would repeal every remaining vestige of the Patriot Act today. A lot of those vestiges are indeed what are being used by Joe Biden to round up the people who would otherwise be labeled as insurrectionists or white supremacists

or otherwise that are threats today. Many of whom I think are being wrongfully arrested in the same way that civil rights activists were wrongfully arrested and spied on by the FBI in the 1960s. So you think Trump has been wrongfully arrested? I think Trump, I think these politicized accusations against Trump would not exist

were he not running for president. So yes, I believe they're absolutely politicized. It's going to be such a tired discussion because everybody's beaten this dead horse to death. But if you take something like the Gretchen Whitmer kidnapping plot, right, that hasn't been beaten to death. Remember this you take something like the Gretchen Whitmer kidnapping plot, right, that hasn't been beaten to death. Remember this story? Absolutely. Yeah. So it actually began as a storm on the Capitol in Michigan, a plot to storm Capitol, Michigan ended up being headed in the direction of a kidnapping plot for Gretchen Whitmer. Multiple of the defendants are acquitted.

First, there's a hung jury. They retry them. After retrying them, multiple of the defendants are acquitted at trial. Why? On grounds of entrapment. Literally, a third of the people involved in this, if not more, were FBI agents. Gave them $5,000 credit cards. These are poor people. One of these guys is going to a Mexican restaurant across the street to go get hot water. These are poor people in a tough spot. They happen to be white. 60 years ago, could say it's black skin color, take it out of the equation, $5,000 credit cards to go buy munitions, et cetera, multiple people acquitted. And the juror at the trial after the acquittal comes over to the defendant, gives one of them a hug and just apologizes for what they had seen and been put through. And so where is the I don't

say right wing, left wing. Where is the accountability for a federal administrative police state that has put people up to do something that they otherwise wouldn't have done there under poor circumstances, exploited, they're angry, paid for by the government, tried to put them in jail for it, except for thank God we have a jury system that is the final last bastion of defense, acquitted those men who were put up to do something they otherwise never would have done. I think it was wrong what's happened in the 1960s. I think it's wrong if it's happening today. And so, again, that's why a lot of the principles I'm standing for, I don't think they should

be viewed as Republican versus Democrat principles. I agree. I think there are opponents to what I'm saying in the Republican Party. Do you think some people should be above the law? No. Okay, then. We're a nation of laws, not of men. That's one of our founding principles, which I give credit to our founding fathers for

setting in motion, by the way. So what's the problem with Trump having 91 criminal charges? If he's innocent, then it'll be proven in a court of law, right? I think it will be proven in a court of law. But I think it's wrong for the country in terms of what we're going through in the meantime, tainting the course of this election. You just focused on the storm in the Capitol. What about the attempted coup that happened on January 6th?

Do we want to go down this rabbit hole? Because I think that I'm going to do... Again, I was a private citizen three years ago when it happened. I was a biotech CEO consuming just... I like to think of myself as independent, but consuming what a lot of the news media feeds me. As a presidential candidate, you have a responsibility to the country to dive deep into the facts. And a lot of new facts have actually come out since then. Three years ago, if you had told me that January 6th was some type of government entrapment, I would have said that

was crazy talk. I don't believe it's crazy talk today. Government entrapment, what do you mean? Well, I mean, again, the same people, what I just told you happened in Michigan, right? So here we got all the way through trial. Multiple of the people were acquitted because it was found that the FBI put them up to do something that they always wouldn't do. The head of the Detroit field office there was a man by the name of Stephen D'Antonio. Well, people weren't acquitted on January 6th. No, no, no. Let me just draw the line. I said, do you want to go down the rabbit hole? It's going to take about five minutes to do it, at least. But we'll go down the rabbit hole if you want to open that door. The head of the Detroit field office of the FBI is a gentleman

named Stephen D'Antonio. In late 2020, Christopher Wray, the head of the FBI, moves him to be the D.C. field office head. So let's get this straight. The Detroit field office has created a fake plot to storm the Michigan Capitol. Multiple people get framed through that. Several get acquitted on grounds of entrapment. The person who is heading the Detroit field office of the FBI that masterminds that now moved to D.C. several months before what happened on January 6th. We all saw what happened on January 6th.

What turns out was that the video footage we saw shortly after did not include, this video footage has now come out in the last year, did not include shooting rubber bullets and tear gas into a peaceful audience. And then you actually see the response to that and didn't include Capitol Police officers welcoming people into the Capitol.

And one of the people on Jan 6th, it turns out, Charlemagne, was acquitted because he came in with a Capitol police officer waving him to come in. What that got to do with Trump's speech that incited it at all? I'm not talking about Trump at all. You asked about the people. You have to, though. But you were asking about the people who were on the grounds on January 6th. Those people were on the grounds because Trump called for them to be on the grounds. Which is their right to do as long as they're doing it peacefully and protesting because the tradition in this country, the civil rights movement wouldn't

happen if there hadn't been a march on Washington, right? We saw them storm the Capitol. We saw the video. It's right there for you to see. We saw clips of the video and anybody who was violent is a different category. But if you were a peaceful protester on January 6th and you ended up in the Capitol because a Capitol police officer let you in and you took him some selfies and walked around and then left, I don't think you should be sitting in prison. And I think that that is an application of a different standard of the rule of law, which is why I've said any peaceful January 6th protester would have gotten a pardon on my first day in office. I don't know if Trump brothers have made that commitment. I can't speak for others. But you do believe that some people were

there to attempt to accrue this country. If you were violent that day, you need to be held accountable for that violence. Now, was there, I think, a lot of unanswered questions that need to be answered? And I think it's up to good journalists to step up and understand. Did a president incite it, though? Did Donald Trump incite the coup? I don't think Donald Trump incited a violent coup, if you just look at the words of what he said. He specifically said peacefully. No, he didn't. He said you got to fight like hell. He said you got to fight like hell. Peacefully.

Literally, he was using the word peacefully. Nope, he did not. They used part of his speech against him. This is about a deeper issue of people who are in prison today. And I think that if you're in prison for peacefully expressing your views on Washington, D.C., no matter what your views are, I don't care if you're a black civil rights activist in the 60s. I don't care if you're a white January 6th peaceful protester. You should be held to the same standard of the rule of law, which is that peaceful protest, peaceful and the expression of your viewpoint should never be criminalized in this country. Hey, guys, I'm Kate Max. You might know me from my popular online series, never be criminalized in this country. about. It's a chance to sit down with my guests and dive even deeper into their stories,

their journeys, and the thoughts that arise once we've hit the pavement together. You know that rush of endorphins you feel after a great workout? Well, that's when the real magic happens. So if you love hearing real, inspiring stories from the people you know, follow, and admire, join me every week for Post Run High. It's where we take the conversation beyond the run and get into the heart of it all. It's lighthearted, pretty crazy, and very fun. Listen to Post Run High on the iHeartRadio app,

Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Hey, everyone. This is Courtney Thorne-Smith. Hey, everyone. This is Courtney Thorne-Smith, Laura Layton, and Daphne Zuniga. On July 8th, 1992, apartment buildings with pools were never quite the same

as Melrose Place was introduced to the world. It took drama and mayhem to an entirely new level. We are going to be reliving every hookup, every scandal, every backstab, blackmail and explosion, and every single wig removal together. Secrets are revealed as we rewatch every moment with you. Special guests from back in the day will be dropping by.

You know who they are. Sydney, Allison, and Joe are back together on Still the Place with a trip down memory lane and back to Melrose Place. So listen to Still the Place on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen to podcasts. So y'all, this is Questlove, and I'm here to tell you about a new podcast I've been working on with the Story Pirates and John Glickman called Historical Records.

It's a family-friendly podcast. Yeah, you heard that right. A podcast for all ages. One you can listen to and enjoy with your kids starting on September 27th. I'm going to toss it over to the host of Historical Records, Nimany, to tell you all about it. Make sure you check it out. Hey, y'all. Nimany here. I'm the host of a brand new history podcast for kids and families called Historical Records.

Historical Records brings history to life through hip-hop. Each episode is about a different inspiring figure from history. Like this one about Claudette Colvin, a 15-year-old girl in Alabama who refused to give up her seat on the city bus nine whole months before Rosa Parks did the same thing. Check it.

Get the kids in your life excited about history by tuning in to Historical Records, because in order to make history, you have to make some noise. Listen to Historical Records on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Hola, mi gente. It's Honey German, and I'm bringing you Gracias, Come Again, the podcast where we dive deep into the world of Latin culture, musica, peliculas, and entertainment with some of the biggest names in the game. If you love hearing real conversations with your favorite Latin celebrities, artists, and culture shifters, this is the podcast for you.

We're talking real conversations with our Latin stars, from actors and artists to musicians and creators sharing their stories, struggles, and successes. You know it's going to be filled with cheese man laughs and all the vibes that you love. Each week, we'll explore everything from music and pop culture to deeper topics like identity, community,

and breaking down barriers in all sorts of industries. Don't miss out on the fun, el té caliente, and life stories. Join me for Gracias Come Again, a podcast by Honey German, where we get into todo lo actual y viral. Listen to Gracias Come Again on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

Hey, this is Justin Richmond, host of the Broken Record Podcast. Every week, I or my co-host, Lilia Rose, sit down with the artists you love to get unparalleled creative insight. Now we have a special series where we speak with the artists behind one of the most influential jazz labels of the 20th century, Blue Note Records. You'll hear from artists like nine-time Grammy award-winning Noah Jones, John Mellencamp and Madonna collaborator Michelle Indegiocello, and from the legendary Ron Carter, former member of the Miles Davis Quintet, who's also played with Herbie Hancock and on Gil Scott Heron's The Revolution Will Not Be Televised. Join us over at Broken Record to hear stories behind the legendary label. Listen on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen to podcasts. Yeah, but you're talking about two totally different things.

You're talking about people who are fighting for civil rights, and now you're talking about people who are trying to overturn the results of the election. I'm saying regardless of what your views are, regardless of what your views are, you should be able to peacefully express yourself. And once you lose that, we don't have a country left. Oh, I agree. But a lot of those people on January 6th weren't peaceful at all. Well, I'm drawing a distinction. Some of them were literally saying

they were looking for the vice president to hang them. I'm drawing a distinction for countless peaceful protesters who are in prison today for trespassing, unlawfully entering the Capitol. When you have Capitol police officers opening the door to them, at minimum, we should all be able to agree that those people should not be rotting in a prison cell. Not only is that a violation of the standard of the rule of law, let's talk about just the project of uniting this country. And right now we have a

major divide in this country. And at a certain point, we're going to have to look 360 degrees across the board and say, all right, we're all laying down arms. We're going to agree to be one nation. We're going to agree to disagree on the issues where we disagree most profoundly to say that we are still going to be bound by a common set of principles as Americans. Take abortion, right? This is one where they say there's going to divide the country to a breaking point. I've stood for policy and that's a mystery to me. I'm the only Republican who has advocated for this. I think it's a winner politically, but I think it's also the right thing to do they say okay you can't find common ground in abortion how about this one tell me we got three guys here at the table let's talk

from man to man on this i think that if a woman brings a child to term this is what you're fucking up at you're fucking up because there's three men and you're saying you're having a conversation about women you should be bringing the women to the table this is why the shit you're talking about the founding fathers is some bullshit because you got a bunch of white men trying to make policies for a bunch of diverse groups. No, no, no. Most women here like what I'm about to say. Most men don't. You got two women right there.

Ask them. We have, actually. And we've had a conversation. I think you may be worried about what I'm about to say, which is that I think if a woman brings a child to term, she should be able to make the man financially responsible for both her and the child if she does it, period. And that should be the law of the land.

That happens, though. No, it doesn't. It doesn't happen today. Not to the scale I'm talking about. Full financial support. You do 50-50. You got 40% for the man. I'm talking about 100%.

So it's 2x over. He's fully responsible for the woman and fully responsible for the child because your responsibility she took nine months to actually bring the child to term if it's confirmed with a genetic paternity test so right now today 40 years ago he has full responsibility for the child's 18 absolutely and full responsibility for the woman during that time i don't think that's bad i don't think it's bad either because i think that part of the criticism of republicans is oh you're just throwing women under the bus. I say let's actually – that's a fair criticism. Let's actually take that seriously and say we're all in this together.

If you believe that unborn life is life. I think most women would agree with that. Most women absolutely would agree with that. They would say, oh, she's paying for the child and for me? Most women would agree with that, right? And that's not the state of – I can't afford that. But then men should think about that on the front end. That's the whole point.

Because women can't afford that either. That's the whole – this gets to the heart of the abortion debate. That's not a bad point... I can't afford that. But then men should think about that on the front end. That's the whole point. Because women can't afford that either. That's the whole... This gets to the heart of the abortion debate. That's not a bad point. This gets to the heart of the abortion debate. But what he's saying is you should think about that on the front end. Exactly. Put your condom on.

That's the whole point. Remember when Young Thug was like, yo, if you're broke, shouldn't be having babies? Exactly. But things happen that don't work out. If you think it's going to work out, and it obviously doesn't now, a man that's making $40,000 a year,

you want him to pay for the woman and the child? That's not the wildest thing I've heard you say. Because she's actually got nine months of carrying the child. So this is, when I'm talking back about the project of uniting the country, I don't know if that's a Republican idea, Democratic idea, or whatever. But right now, one of the criticisms

is, and one of the things I believe as a leader, you talked about being a leader, what does a leader do? One of the things a leader does is listen to the best arguments for the other side, understand them deeply, and then give the best possible response to that. You can. I had 11th grade teacher. She taught me. If you can't state the best argument for the other side, you don't know what you actually

believe yourself. And I think that that's true. And here on this question, the best argument for the other side is how are you only putting this responsibility on women to say, OK, you stand for life and all of that, but how come that only falls on the woman? My answer is it shouldn't. So nature has made a decision, and some people will be offended at us saying this, but only women have children. Okay, I believe that's a biological fact. Some people may disagree with that.

But if you have two X chromosomes, you have children. But we're going to do everything we can to even that responsibility out by saying that if the man is making a sexual decision, it's not just the woman that's responsible for that. The man actually pays for the woman and the child for the next 18 years. I'm not mad at that. Yeah. So I'm giving you an example, though. Same thing we're bringing up with the FBI. I can't afford it. Recognize.

Don't say the FBI wasn't racist or whatever 60 years ago it was but acknowledge that same institution that was celebrating the j edgar hoover building how do we suddenly believe that somehow it's immune from corruption today and so i think part of what's happened in this country is our partisan goggles have gotten so far in the way of us actually just having actually a conversation amongst citizens without the black label or the white label or the red label or the blue label and just say, actually, let's have a conversation among citizens where there's almost a certain guilt, right? Like if you're among your liberal friends in New York City and you're saying something that Donald Trump said, but you're also saying the same thing about the border or whatever. You have to be guilty and flog yourself for saying it.

Just forget about the guilt and just locate what are our actual principles. And I think I come back to two basic ones that unite us as Americans. The people we elect to run the government should run the government, not the bureaucracy. Those elected leaders owe a moral duty to the citizens of this country, not the citizens of Ukraine or another one. And oh, by the way, we all get to express and speak our minds freely and in the open. Whether or not we disagree, you get to speak your mind and you do and I do too, as long as each of us gets the same right in return. I think those are basic rules of the road that most of us, 90% of us in this country agree on. You know, Trump doesn't agree with that,

though. Trump already said he wants to shut the media down for speaking about him if he becomes president again. I think that here's what I've noticed happening in the country. I've had a front row seat to the media, OK, for the last year. Believe me, 12 of them follow me around everywhere. I've gone for a long time. We do interviews at the end of every day. And I've granted more media access or press access than anybody else for full transparency actually you know we we become friends with some of them young people actually not the not the people who are their bosses up the chain i think a lot of them

have lost their way but the young people 22 years old who have you know earnestly got a job think they're actually doing a good job several of them actually we became i became personally quite friendly with and i expect to remain friends with over the course of life. And the best ones I think aren't going to end up even staying in media. Are you about to make an excuse as to why Trump wants to shut the media down? No, I'm going to tell you something else. What I've seen happen is, because I get questions on this regularly, Trump will say something, there'll be one word they pick out, vermin was one. They followed me around about that for a week. What do you think about the Donald Trump called his opponents vermin? And it's a whole game that the media plays where they will.

Quoting Hitler. They will. They will. They will pick. They will pick one word, he says, and then actually have you respond to it as opposed to taking the actual. But the obsession over picking some word that Donald Trump said. Quoting Hitler.

And making that the news story versus actually asking about the substance. I mean, Charlamagne, I think I saw some of your own commentary recently where you agree with me on the border being a crisis. And it's ridiculous what's happening on this other border. Yeah, but what am I going to do with anything? What did he say to quote Hitler? Let's actually just go to the specifics.

Let's just go to the specifics and do this. Because this is exactly what happened. Pull it up word for word. Read me the whole paragraph, what comes before, during, and after. I don't even know what you're referring to, but I know enough of how the game is played that I just want to play this out. And he also said that he didn't know Hitler had used the term. Okay, well. And that was the poisoning the blood term.

That's straight out of the manifesto. Just because somebody says a word that also appears in some English translation of the manifesto is some sort of weird game of gotcha. Just read to me the full paragraph block quote. If you're saying immigrants poison the blood of America. No, no, no. Give me Donald Trump's quote. We're not going to do the game of the secondhand NBC News distillation of it. Just get to the primary source.

Because I know Donald Trump, and he's not somebody who goes around quoting Adolf Hitler. It's just not a thing that happens. I know half this country is taught to believe by the media that that's what he does, but that's just not Donald Trump and he's not somebody who goes around quoting Adolf Hitler. It's just not a thing that happens. I know half this country is taught to believe by the media that that's what he does, but that's just not Donald Trump. I think the real number is 15, 16 million people into our country. When they do that, we got a lot of work to do. They're poisoning the blood of our country. Trump told the crowd at a rally in New Hampshire. That's what they've done. They poisoned mental institutions and prisons all over the world, not just in South America, not just the three or four countries that we think about, but all over the world.

They're coming into our country from Africa, from Asia, all over the world, and he kept repeating the phrase, poisoning the blood of our country. Can you just do me one favor? Because we got it. I think this is so valuable. Just read exactly Trump's quote. Read the whole sentence.

Illegal immigration is poisoning the blood of our nation. Okay, and read the rest of it as you did. Just go the whole paragraph. I just did. Just do it one more time, just so everybody can hear what he actually said versus the news story. The term blood poisoning was used by Hitler in the manifesto. No, no, no. Read what Donald Trump said, not what somebody wrote about it.

He criticized immigration and the mixing of all races. Trump is doing the exact same thing. Because they're poisoning the mental health institutions. They're poisoning the prisons. No, he said poisoning the blood of our country. That was one line from a broader litany. That's Hitler's line. I'll tell you this, man.

I went to the south side of Chicago in this campaign against the advice of my campaign advisors because they said, why are you going there in the middle of a primary? I'm running to unite the country. You know what they're doing in Chicago right now or at least at the time I went there? They were converting South Shore High School, a poor high school on the south side of Chicago,

into an encampment for migrants who are in this country illegally at a cost of $7,000 per migrant per month. Absolutely. That happened in New York a couple of years ago. There were things said in the room that I was in that were far more incendiary than what you just read right there. And I don't hold it against the people who are in that room with me because America First includes all Americans. And I think it is dead wrong that we are rewarding mass numbers of people who have entered this country illegally, breaking the law as they do it, coming in by the millions and rewarding them more than we are our own fellow citizens right here at home. You get so why don't we?

So that's a major problem affecting people, black and white, Democrat, Republican, poor and middle class across this country. And yet we're sitting here obsessing over one word in a long paragraph that said poison the blood when it included a reference to mental health institutions and jails and other public resources in the United States. That is everything that's wrong with our media right now. And I think it's going to be people like you guys who are actually going to help lead the media out of this because you are actually not beholden by the same partisan orthodoxies. Let's talk about the actual substance, about what we need to address. It's hard to when you got a guy who says he wants to be a dictator for a day. It's hard when it's a guy who says you got to terminate the constitution in order to overturn the results of an election. It's hard

when it's a guy who's led an attempted coup in his country. Get over the derangement syndrome and focus on the actual problems we have to solve as a country. And you look at actually the border, the economy. You want to look at staying out of foreign wars? Yeah, I will take a president who has sharp elbows, who is actually able to accomplish those things. The words don't matter. I'm not saying words don't matter. Words do matter.

But words taken out of context in a way. Am I going to say everything the same way that Donald Trump did? I don't know why I'm sitting here being questioned. Again, the entire media loves to do on picking some word Trump said. And we're sitting here talking about that rather than a vision for the country. Let's talk about the actual country. Let's talk about the actual issues we're addressing as a country. Let's talk about this for the vision of the country.

Yes, exactly. Let's talk about the actual country. What's the point of the GOP attaching themselves to Trump the way they have when he hasn't won anything since 2016? The GOP attaching themselves to Trump is, I think, a bizarre framing where the GOP is electing a leader to lead our America first movement to the next level. And they're saying in droves that Donald Trump should be that leader. Now, how do we actually use that to accomplish something for our country? Our country, I think, made a poor decision in putting Joe Biden in office. I think the results speak for themselves.

I think a lot of the economic numbers are a fallacy. Prices are higher. Wages haven't gone up to the same degree. Mortgage rates are higher. People live in tougher circumstances. We've got millions more who have entered this country illegally, taken up public resources that should be used on other purposes. And yet, somehow, we are still focusing on some word that Donald Trump said

as opposed to asking ourselves how are we going to address that underlying reality. He hasn't won anything since 2016. So what's the point? He won in 2016. And he hasn't won anything since? What? 2018, you lost the House. He ran and won an election.

2018, you lost the House. 2020, you lost the White House. I think he's going to win in a landslide this year. But what about? Sure. But he hasn't won anything since 2016. Fairly I think he's going to win in a landslide this year. But what about... Sure. But he hasn't won anything since 2016. I think he wins in a landslide this year. Look, I think people voted for the policies.

And at the end of the day, look, I'm looking to take many of those policies to the next level. That's what I was doing in my candidacy. But the people were clear they want someone who's tried and true. And they want the policies we had from 2016 to 2020. That's what we're going to have in this country. Now, Vivek, let me ask you a question. Now, you're here as a regular citizen, you said today, correct?

Yeah. All right. Now, you're a cool guy. We can play basketball, pickleball, whatever you want. What is next for Vivek? Why are you here? Are you here to promote Trump? Like, why is Vivek here today?

I thought you were going to announce something. Like, why is Vivek here today? So to tell you the truth, I was over the weekend. Oh, just shoot the shit. Yeah, I mean, pretty much. I was with family over the weekend. Haven't seen them in a long time. We were here with my kids. We saw friends and family over the weekend. Yeah, I mean, pretty much. I was with family over the weekend. Haven't seen them in a long time. We were here with my kids. We saw friends

and family over the weekend. We haven't seen in forever. We've been living in Iowa and New Hampshire and braving the campaign trail. And, you know, honestly, I think that we need to have more open conversations in this country. I appreciate you coming to get the blood for me. Because I know that we don't, you know, and I also, actually, to tell you the truth, I don't know if you remember this, last time we

had a little bit of a more contentious exchange with the third friend who joined by screen. That's going to take a row. But you said, are you going to come back? I bet you're not going to come back. I said, I bet you I will. And so I remember that. It was a challenge. You were like, I'm going to come back.

It wasn't a challenge. It's a promise. I made you a promise. We're going to come back and close the loop on the conversation. And that's what I want to do. And I have a feeling, you know, if you guys will have me, we'll do this again in six months or whenever we come back to New York again. Do you think a person of color could ever be the GOP nominee? Yes. Absolutely.

Because I read an article in The Nation that said, you and Nikki Haley can't escape GOP racism. And the article says you two are boxed in by the bigotry that you deny exists. What do you think of that? So I'll tell you what probably the bigger obstacle was for me. It wasn't skin color. And I still don't think it's a irresolvable obstacle but it was religion i'm hindu and you know i think the easy thing you're supposed to do as a politician is even if you're not claimed to be christian check the box maybe shorten your name a little bit make it easier to pronounce would that in the short run help my electoral chances? A lot of people who are professionals at this certainly say it would.

But as I told you, my whole approach to politics is I'm going to tell you who I am and what I stand for. And I am a religious person. So you think religion is the reason the GOP? No, no, not at all. Not at all. But I'm saying that if I had to pick even between the two factors, it's not even race. One, I'm not making this up because I got a lot of earnest people in iowa who told me they loved everything i say and i don't begrudge them for this but it was a it was difficult to vote for me because i'm not christian and i respect that honesty and we the kinds of conversations we had about faith in iowa i mean these were including with the with the pastor the gentleman who you know put me through the push-up ringer before asking me the question about systemic racism, was actually one of the people who came down the side of, I know the difference between a pastor and a president, and I think he ended up

becoming a supporter of mine, actually. He became a precinct captain, which is funny how that story ended. He came back a few weeks later to an event, even though he disagreed with me on some of, or thought he disagreed with me on some of the views initially that I had on eliminating affirmative action, came back a few weeks later, ended up being one of our precinct captains in Iowa. And he's a Christian pastor, black, coming out with disagreeing with me on the politics at one point and a different religion on the other and became a precinct captain. So it's not insurmountable. But I think that was a bigger question and understandably on people's minds, right? The nation is founded as a matter of history on Judeo-Christian principles. But one of the things I had an

opportunity to share with people was actually, and it almost forced me to take a step back and really locate like, what are my actual faith convictions? Most of us think we are whatever religion we are, but when you're really pressed on it, it's one of the things in this campaign is it really brought me back in touch with my own faith. And I shared with people what my faith is. There's one true God. He puts us here for a purpose. He works through us. It's not being done by us. It's being done through us, but we are still equal because God resides in each of us. That's the heart of my faith, which is slightly different than the way you'd say it is that we're all big, we're equal because we're all made in the image of God and we're equal in the eyes of God, but it's making

the same point. And I also learned a lot about the difference in how to talk about the difference between being a president and a pastor. So you brought up Thomas Jefferson and a lot of the left likes to cancel part of his legacy because he was a slaveholder. There's actually something coming from the other side that I saw as well. And I had a chance to educate people on and even refresh myself on what Thomas Jefferson was not a Christian, not a traditional Christian. He was a deist. Actually, he made a

part of the old the New Testament. He didn't like all the stuff about the miracles and everything else, but he liked the philosophy and the teachings of Jesus Christ. And so he took a razor blade and he cut out the parts of the New Testament that had the philosophy that he thought spoke to him. He used glue to glue them together. That constitutes the Jefferson Bible today. And so the interesting thing about that is I would meet a lot of people on the campaign trail

who would be frankly disgusted. And I have to admit, part of me is also disgusted with the view that we can't respect Thomas Jefferson's legacy. The guy who at the age of 33 wrote the Declaration of Independence. I'm sitting in a swivel chair right now. This was invented by Thomas Jefferson, the man who was 33 when he wrote the Declaration of Independence. He invented the swivel chair right around the same time. That man, the unafraid, the guy in the Lewis and Clark expeditions that we can't celebrate him today because he was a slaveholder.

From that angle, to also tell a group of people who believes that only a Christian can be the U.S. president, who love Thomas Jefferson, who love the signer of the Declaration of Independence, who hate the left for saying that we can't celebrate Thomas Jefferson because he was a slaveholder, who actually believe that only a Christian can be president, and yet Thomas Jefferson wasn't a traditional Christian at the time he became the president. Are you saying it's okay that he was a slaveholder because he created the swivel chair? No, I'm not. I'm saying that we are imperfect human beings.

Yes, that's true. And you know what? 250 years from now, somebody will look at something that each of the three of us have done and criticize that 250 years from now and say, can you believe these people? Shit.

They're doing it now. No, but they're really, if they're doing it now, and they were doing it for him then too, but if they're doing it now, they they're they're really if they're doing it now and they were doing it for him then too but if they're doing it now they're really going to do it 250 years from now and we're and right now if we really thought about it and we took a few hours or a few days to reflect on it we could probably figure out what that is but if you asked you on the spot right now no i don't think you could tell me on the spot right now what people 250 years from now are going to come here and tell you that you were an immoral man for and all the other truths that you spoke that we should

reject them because you did some small thing that the people 250 years from now disagree with. Well, being a slave owner is a small thing, but I know you got to go to- But back then it was actually, and that's the thing in 1776. It was the nature. It was the nature to be. And so right now, don't be the person who was the slave holder back then. Be John Adams. That's what we should call ourselves to be. The person who bucks the trend of their time to say, I'm going to speak on my own conviction and do what's different than being the product of my own time.

Because anybody can parrot what the slogan is of their day. But the hard thing to do is to say the pack is running this way and I'm going this way instead anyway, because it's grounded on my conviction. That's what we need. People like John Adams are the reason you can point at it and say it was wrong, though, because John Adams knew it was wrong. Well, a lot of people are going to be doing things today that are different than the way that each of us

is going to be living our lives and say the same thing, and 250 years from now, somebody else is going to be having the same conversation. People like Abe Lincoln thought it was wrong, clearly. Abe Lincoln wasn't around then, man. That was still... Well, later on.

That was still later on. And we'll just take the story down. We'll just pass this lineage down. We don't talk American history enough. Actually, it irritates me. A lot of conservatives talk about the importance of knowing history without actually just talking about history. Let's talk this through. So John Adams, you know, his son is John Quincy Adams. He's the first non-founding father who became a president. Here's a funny

fact about him. He was the first outside of the founding fathers. He was the first one who was elected president. He actually wasn't a great president. He had he was elected out after one term. People didn't love him. So he tried to find everything else he could do. He went and tried to write some books and he went and tried to start some nonprofits and none of that spoke to him. He's the only presence, John Adams, a son who went back to Congress after being a president. So he's elected to multiple terms of Congress. You know, he went back to Congress with was one thing he regretted not doing as a president was abolishing slavery. This is long before Abraham Lincoln comes along. OK, so he wanted to abolish slavery. His father was an abolitionist. He didn't accomplish much during his tenure as president. He was a good secretary

of state, but he was he was not a very good president. Think about the humility to say, I'm not even going to go to the Senate. I'm going to go become a congressman and get reelected multiple times with the mission of abolishing slavery. Now, here's what happens. There was a rule that Congress passes. It's called the gag rule, which stopped people from using the word slavery. Like they literally couldn't use the word slavery because they don't want people to utter the word because it made them uncomfortable. So this guy's already been the U.S. president. OK, so he has nothing to lose. He's just a congressman now. He says, I'm going to say the word because it made them uncomfortable. So this guy's already been the U.S. president. Okay, so he has nothing to lose. He's just a congressman now. He says, I'm going to say the

word. I'm going to say it's slavery. Slavery, slavery, slavery. There. Congress has set the rule that you can't say the word slavery. Well, I'm going to say it. So they censure him and have, just like they have today for George Santos or whatever, they'll have the equivalent of kicking him out of Congress. So they have his trial in Congress and he uses his own personal trial because this guy's got nothing to lose. They use his own personal trial for saying the word slavery when you're not allowed to say the word slavery to make the case for abolition from the stand of his own trial to being kicked out of Congress. At the end of that, they get rid of the gag rule. So you're allowed to say slavery, which opens up the debates that you're then allowed to have. So a year later, about a year or so later, he's given a speech on the Congress floor. I mean, it's amazing. This guy

with this humility. He's given a speech on the Congress floor. He has a stroke in the middle of his speech. He dies right there. He doesn't die quite yet. They take him up to the upstairs room, keep him alive for another couple of days. And eventually he dies up in that anteroom outside in the same Congress where he then devoted that later stage of his career. And they took volunteers for who's going to be the person

who carries out his funeral rites and carries him out. And the guy who raises his hand and does it was a first term congressman. Nobody had heard of hadn't said a word by the name of Abraham Lincoln. And so these are the stories of our history, man. We don't tell these stories anymore. We celebrate. We put back our founding fathers and we talk about how these people are, how these people are slave owners and want to dismiss the ideals they set into motion without recognizing that like us today, these are imperfect human beings that still strived to be the best that they possibly could have, just as we do today.

And so it bothers me deeply for us to just lazily reject that as opposed to saying we acknowledge those imperfections, but we're founded on the pursuit of a more perfect union. Absolutely. The pursuit of liberty, equality, and justice for all. The reason you can't just dismiss it and say, okay, Thomas Jefferson was an imperfect person. I'm not dismissing it, though. Do I sound like I'm dismissing it, Charlemagne? Yes. But the reason—

I disagree with you, man. And I think that— The reason you can't say Thomas Jefferson— If you're going to put me in the category of having the conversation we had and saying that I just dismissed it out of hand, I think that that's unfair. I just think that that's unfair. I don't think I dismiss it. But I acknowledge the totality of what a human being is, which is an imperfect and flawed human being who we can still celebrate. I'm fine with that.

That's what we have to be. But you can't tell people just to ignore the fact that Thomas Jefferson was labeled. I'm not telling people to ignore it, though. And this is what I think we – I'm in this to unite the country. And I think if we're going to take this seriously, every one of us has to acknowledge the full nuances of our history in every direction. To say that we're not going to listen to Thomas Jefferson

or that our founding was illegitimate because they were deeply imperfect and flawed is every bit as bad as somebody who's going to say that I'm going to entirely dismiss the fact that they were slave owners. I think that both of those are mistakes that could lead to the failure of our country as we know it. I think our country will cease to exist if either side of our debate is at one hand willing to say, oh, slavery was some made-up myth and actually, I don't know, it was in the interest of – people could say such things.

It was in the interest of black people to be slaves, whatever. Ridiculous. Okay. Well, I think that if we have a different side that says our founding fathers who wrote a declaration of independence founded on the pursuit of a more perfect union, right? The pursuit of liberty, equality, and justice for all. Not claiming we're perfect, but that we're a nation founded on freedom for all who aspire to have and that we're imperfect.

But we eventually got there 250 years and as darn close as we've ever been to reject that and say that we can't celebrate that founding because they made a mistake of being slave owners. I think that that is every bit as bad for the future of our country versus acknowledging that we are still pursuing that more perfect union. What I would say is what you talked about with Thomas Jefferson when he took the razor and he took out some of the philosophies that he agreed with. We should take some of those things that we agree with, but then everybody should come to the table because all was not at the table when those people wrote those documents.

We got that. We have too much of a diverse country now. We understand that. Okay. But my point is not rejecting that or taking a hammer to it. It's more of a different response. It's like, we got it. Like, at a certain point, of a different response it's like we got it like total like at a certain point we've got to say we've got it we don't though no but but i can

but we don't we we got it and now and now it's time for 360 degree mercy clemency forgiveness across the board and that we're moving forward as one nation under God. And I think that I think that moment is now, actually. And that's why I ran for president. And it clearly I did not succeed to the scale that I wanted to. I'm proud of what we accomplished, as I said, started as ordinary guy, kid of immigrants came to this country with no money. They would have never imagined that I'm self-funding a presidential campaign to try to try to reach the people with this message.

But I'm not-funding a presidential campaign to try to try to reach the people with this message. But I'm not stopping now. And I don't know what form that's going to take in this next phase. But I'm all in for that. And even for people, I don't know if you guys are on the left or not, how you'd characterize yourself, but people have different views. I'm asking you, OK, I mean, whatever it means. Right. And these labels, what do these things mean? Right. You know, hard right, hard left. I think these things actually mean a lot less right now in an era where we're closer to World War Three than we've ever been. And the only bipartisan consensus in the establishment of both parties is to march us closer. Forget the labels. I'm asking those of you who care about the country, and I believe you do, you wouldn't be doing what you're doing

every day if you didn't have a care for this country. And I don't think you would be either, man. I mean, you could, I know I don't think you would be either, man. I mean, you could, I know you like cars. You could be talking about cars the whole time, but you're not. You're talking about this. And I think it's because you care about the country. How can you care about the country if you support Trump though? I do care about the country.

And I think the Trump is going to be. The guy wanted to suspend the constitution to overturn the results of an election. Charlemagne, I think that. He led an attempted coup in his country. I think that a lot of this... That's not respect for democracy. Here's what I will say is... How can you respect your country if you don't respect democracy?

I'll make a deal with you. We can even do this offline because we're not going to do it here. With an open mind, take a look at the totality of government entrapment in the lead up to the 2020 election and even afterwards.

And then you look at the same cases from 60 years ago. And what you look at the same cases from 60 years ago. And what you realize is this is just history continuing as it has for the last 60 years. A good book I'll give you. My wife actually read it. When I told her I wanted to shut down the FBI, she's not a terribly political person at all. But if I told her I want to shut down the FBI, she thought it was crazy. She thought a lot of what I'm talking about here sounded like crazy talk, as I would have believed three, four years ago myself. She read a book herself. She doesn't take it from me. She's an independent student. She's read a book called G-Man.

And if everybody is watching this right now, I would recommend taking a look at it, too. It's not some right winger wrote this book. It's some, as far as I know, some sort of liberal Yale historian. But it's a Pulitzer Prize winning book, not some right wing screed. G-Man stands for government man, gives you the history of J. Edgar Hoover's FBI. And once you read that, I think you will likely most people, I think probably 90 percent of people will actually come around to having the same views that I do about the torturous impact of that federal bureaucracy. And I think part of a lot of the stuff that we might argue against what I'll call the woke stuff or whatever

is really just woke smoke to deflect accountability for the failures of that bureaucracy. Right. Take the Federal Department of Education. Right. You know, the woke smoke is math is racist. You've heard people say this. It's forget about the smoke. Don't fall for the smoke. Fall for the reality that they have failed to teach our kids how to do math for those last 40 years. You want to know a good book to read? The Rise and Fall of the Third Reich. And you'll see how what's going on right now in this country is too close to comfort for what happened.

I think a lot of people would hear you say that, Charlemagne, and one of them who worry about all right forget about the labels if we have a country that says that you know what if you say something on social media and you like to retweeted a post of one particular political candidate you're the subject of a subpoena and we have a candidate of a different party who says that we need to tie your social media account to your government issued ID. And the government gets to see every time you've liked or retweeted a social media post that that would be pretty frightening. Yet that's exactly in the Jack Smith investigation of Donald Trump. The subpoena includes literally on Twitter. You guys use Twitter.

Anybody who hit like or retweet, you want the government to be able to include that as part of a subpoena. And you got Nikki Haley coming over from the so-called right saying that actually you need to actually have used your driver's license to do it should have social media period and I don't think the government officials should be able to intrude on what you're saying on the internet if you're actually saying it with your expressing your opinion and have the ability to actually come up to you and question you based on what you said either that sounds a lot like the third Reich of Germany to me so you could cut this a lot of different ways the infringements on free speech to say that if you said the COVID pandemic originated in a lab in China we're going to lock your account you can't say that that's what Trump

wants to do to media who goes against him well I'm talking about something very specific here during the COVID-19 pandemic it wasn't it wasn't Donald Trump that that wanted this to happen just admit both sides are full of shit I think that both political parties are full of shit. Both political parties are full of shit. I think both political parties are full of shit. I will agree with you on that. A lot of the influence is actually the influence of money. That's really the problem.

Because it's some of the same donors who are writing multi-million dollar checks that are pulling the strings of both of these people like puppets. They're like pawns on a chessboard. And so that's why I spent, I mean, I got probably more connections to be able to raise outside money into super PACs or whatever, but I don't want to do that.

I'd rather put 30 million of my own money, I'd rather do that, than to be somebody else's circus monkey or pawn on a chessboard, which is what basically both political parties have become. And those things are all full of shit. It feels like both sides are car sales people. Nothing ever changes. We hear the same thing over and over again.

I don't think it has to stay that way. I don't mean to be some corny host person. Don't you think it's a shame? I know that. But don't you think it's a shame that we all... I'm not even a candidate anymore. Don't you think it's a shame that every presidential election we're voting for the lesser of two evils?

It's the same thing over and over again. It never changes. Here's what I will say to these conversations. That's why when I hear you in here and you're talking about Trump and this and this me let me preach to the republican party for a second because this is what i said this is my whole last message in the last two months of the campaign trail the republican party has become lazy but when parties become lazy because we are just criticizing the vision of the other side and the other side will give you a vision of you know we will complain about

i'll complain about it race gender, gender, sexuality, climate. Correct. Complain about that without offering an alternative vision of our own. What do we actually stand for? And I'll be the first person to acknowledge that is missing in the Republican Party today. An actual alternative vision. Biden bad is not an agenda and yet the reason why we got trounced in that midterm relative to what should have happened i wasn't i don't think it was because abortion i don't think it's because of trump those are all things people failed to you know just blame game stuff the real reason is biden bad is not an agenda we have to offer an alternative vision of what we stand for so if we we're talking race, gender, sexuality, and climate over here, we'll talk over here about individual, family, nation, and God. It's an alternative vision. You could agree or disagree with it.

The value of each individual, the value of the family as a grounding institution, the value of the nation. I'm a citizen of this nation, not some nebulous global citizen fighting climate change in Davos. No, I'm a citizen of this nation and I have an obligation to my fellow citizens and God in the same way as a leader, as I'm a father of two sons. My moral obligation as a father is to my family and to my sons, period. I won't be shaken in that. Well, then my moral obligation as a president of this nation is to the citizens of this nation, not another one, not just the people who agree with me, people on the south side of Chicago to Kensington, to everywhere else that I've visited in this campaign. All of those are

equally included as Americans, but that's still what it means to be an American. And yes, we are one nation under God. And you know what? If more of us acknowledge that, do you think we'd be more united or more divided? I think we'd be more united. And I say this as somebody who has been hit for having a slightly different religion than the most predominant religion in the country. I still think it's a good thing for us to acknowledge that we are one nation under God. You could agree or not with that vision. I think it's a winning vision for the Republican Party that you are an individual and I'm an individual. We're not riding the tectonic plates of group identity. You're Charlemagne and you're DJ Envy and I'm me and I'm an agent

in this world that can achieve whatever I want not riding somebody else's tectonic plate. That I'm a family and a member of a family and that there's a mother and a father involved and that's inherently a good thing and that the nuclear family is the greatest form of governance known to man. That is not the Republican Party though. They've been the party

of the Confederacy forever. So listen, I'm coming in I've said this since day one. I was using the Republican Party, though. They've been the party of the Confederacy forever. So listen, I'm coming in. I've said this since day one. I was using the Republican Party as a vehicle to advance a pro-American agenda. And it made people mad when I said it. Ronna McDaniel, I don't know if you know who she is. She's the chairwoman of the RNC. She, after the third debate or whatever, said, I would not get another cent of funding from the RNC.

I mean, almost proven my point about the corrupt managerial interest. And so, yes, I will admit it. I was and am, and if there's a future, we'll be using the Republican Party as a vehicle to advance a pro-American agenda. It's not about Republicans and Democrats. I think it is about the managerial class. We can talk about what that means. It's the bureaucracy in government, outside of government,

the people staffing the boards of some nonprofit, the associate dean of God knows what at a university, the undersecretary of something else in the administrative state. It's the managerial class versus the everyday citizen. I think we need multi-party systems. And the reason I think we need multi-party systems is because those terms, Republican and Democrat, both are too radioactive. The only thing I'll tell you about multi-party systems.

As soon as you hear one, you already label a person. As soon as you hear, oh, this person's that, you label them. As soon as you hear this person's that, you label them. We need a multi-party system. The only thing I'll say about multi-party system is you go to a place like India or whatever, right? My grandparents are immigrants from India. And you think it's bad here. It's like horrific over there.

You got a multi-party system of people will just be shipping TVs into people's houses as a way to just get their vote. And I think it's less about two party versus multi-party. It's more about actually us. Right. So we can all blame the system. But I think part of the problem is we as people were conditioned to behave like sheep, actually. I think there's an inner part of us that's a lion and an inner part of us that is a sheep.

And I think right now we live in a moment where the inner sheep has taken over. Because it is. I think it's a big part of it. Because of the phones. In kids, I would ban social media in kids under the age of 16. I would get phones out of the high schools. I mean, let's just start with basics that we can agree on out of the board.

The algorithms train you to behave like a sheep because the more you behave like a sheep the more it is you're likely to click buy actually that's what that's a mark zuckerberg's basic insight was you know what the site was on harvard's campus i was a year behind him in college when facebook came out but you know what the predecessor site was to Facebook was you familiar with the stories hot or not that was the that was original Facebook so he was a sophomore I was a freshman I was one of the early you know people who got into what became Facebook but the first thing was he would just blast it out to you rip pictures from the Harvard directory get two pictures and then there'd be all kinds of games they'd make it and the whole game was how quickly you would click on one of them versus another and that would be his window into your soul actually like that was the insight now

they got him for inappropriately using harvard property and so he left and just decided this is working so well i'm just going to do it separately that became not only facebook but became the backbone of an entire industry designed to prey on your insecurities, on our insecurities, to open a window into your soul that is deeper than you have into your own. And that's the whole game. And so the more you behave like a sheep, that's what modern AI is actually going to be very good at doing, is the best antidote to AI is, people are going to call me a crazy person for saying this and misquote me and take it out of context, but I don't care. The best antidote to AI actually is, I think,

a revival of faith in the country. Because I think that part of what actually these algorithms do is they prey on an inner vacuum. And that, I think, has created this nation of sheep. So in some ways, we can blame two-party system or this or that. Nothing's going to change until we all actually have an honest introspection about who we really are. That's right. Listen, I got a piece. We got to wrap this up. So I think what you just said is great, but you need to start with yourself because you have better ideas than a Donald

Trump. So there's no need to be his sheep. I'm not anybody's sheep, but I'm supporting who I think is the best person to lead this country forward. There's no need to be his lackey. I disagree with your characterization, but thank you, man. I believe you're better than that, personally. I enjoyed the conversation we're having here, and I think that we need more of this in the country. I don't think we need people continuing to just talk and feed their own echo chambers. I think we need more of this. I agree.

And so next time we're in New York with some time, you have my word, I'll swing by if you'll have me. Pop up. We just did a whole podcast. How long was that, Rhett? I went 30 minutes. You got to go on my guy show too, man, Flagrant. What's that? Okay.

Oh, with Andrew Schultz. Yeah, you were supposed to do it, but I think you had to reschedule. Okay. All right. Yeah, I think I'm seeing him soon. Vivek. Did I say it right? Vivek?

Vivek. Vivek. All right. Ram Swarman, we appreciate you for joining us again. Thank you so much. Good to see you, man. Wake that ass up. In the morning.

The Breakfast Club. Hey, y'all. Niminy here. I'm the host of a brand new history podcast for kids and families called Historical Records. Executive produced by Questlove, The Story Pirates, and John Glickman, Historical Records brings history to life through hip-hop. Flash, slam, another one gone. Bash, bam, another one gone.

The crack of the bat and another one gone. The tip of the cap, there's another one gone. Each episode is about a different inspiring figure from history, like this one about Claudette Colvin, a 15-year-old girl in Alabama who refused to give up her seat on the city bus nine whole months before Rosa Parks did the same thing. Check it. Get the kids in your life excited about history by tuning in to Historical Records. Because in order to make history, you have to make some noise. Listen to Historical Records on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

Hey guys, I'm Kate Max. You might know me from my popular online series, The Running Interview Show, where I run with celebrities, athletes, entrepreneurs, and their stories, their journeys, and the thoughts that arise once we've hit the pavement together. Listen to Post Run High on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Hello, my undeadly darlings. It's Teresa, your resident ghost host And do I have a treat for you Haunting is crawling out from the shadows And it's going to be devilishly good We've got chills, thrills

And stories that'll make you wish the lights stayed on So join me, won't you? Let's dive into the eerie unknown together Sleep tight, if you can Listen to Haunting on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Hi, I'm Marie. And I'm Sydney. And we're Mess.

Well, not a mess, but on our podcast called Mess, we celebrate all things messy. But the gag is, not everything is a mess. Sometimes it's just living. Yeah, things like J-Lo on her third divorce. Living. Girl's trip to Miami. Mess. Breaking up with your girlfriend while on Instagram Live.

Living. It's kind of a mess. Yeah. Well, you get it. Got it? Live, love, mess. Listen to Mess with Sydney Washington and Marie Faustin on iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

Welcome to Gracias Come Again, a podcast by Honey German, where we get real and dive straight into todo lo actual y viral. We're talking música, los premios, el chisme, and all things trending in my cultura. I'm bringing you all the latest happening in our entertainment world and some fun and impactful interviews with your favorite Latin artists, comedians, actors, and influencers. Each week, we get deep and raw life stories, combos on the issues that matter to us, and it's all packed with gems, fun, straight-up comedia, and that's a song that only nuestra gente can sprinkle. Listen to Gracias Come Again on the iHeartRadio app,

Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.