The Breakfast Club - LL COOL J & The Roots Discuss The Art Of Hip-Hop, Ownership, Lyrical Rivalries + More

Episode Date: August 9, 2023

LL COOL J & The Roots Discuss The Art Of Hip-Hop, Ownership, Lyrical Rivalries + MoreSee omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

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turning her beloved country into a mafia state. Listen to Crooks everywhere on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, Charlamagne Tha God. We are The Breakfast Club. Now we got some special guests in the buildings. Yes, indeed. Some legends, some icons. Of course, we got The Roots, Black Thought, and Questlove. Welcome.

Good morning, everybody. It's Black Thought from The Roots. There you go. They've been up here before, and we got another icon that's never been up here before. Yes. The legendary icon, LL Cool J. Welcome. First timer? It's first time up here before. The legendary icon LL Cool J. Welcome, Queens. First timer?

It's first time. First time. LL stands for living legend at this point. I appreciate that. Absolutely. I'll take the love. Absolutely, so let's first start with, you know, why you guys are here together.

Cause people are like, well, why is LL and The Roots together? So you guys are going on the road, on the tour. Yeah. So how did this tour come about? Well, whose version? Well, I mean, really, in short, you know, the planets and the stars sort of aligned themselves and made it possible for us to work together

on this huge segment that we did for the Grammys this year. And I think, you know, from that, the idea of us always having wanted to, you know, work together in some way, just, you know, it opened the collaborative path. And it was like, yo, why don't we try to take this show on the road? It was huge. What we did just in that one 15-minute segment

was so huge for the culture. And, you know, this being hip-hop's 50th anniversary and, you know and that whole deal, it made sense to try and do something celebratory in that way from region to region. The great thing about Hip Hop 50 is a lot of these stories that we haven't heard or that we've heard whispers are coming to light.

And you're starting to see more and more and more and more videos. I was online yesterday, and it was just random because I DJed for Havoc the other night in Queensbridge, and it was one of the most amazing things for me because it's Queensbridge and it's Havoc, right? When he did Shook Ones, I'd just seen the original, and I'm just Googling, and then I see a video of Questlove looking at Jazzy Jeff play the original Shook Ones

and go through the samples. And then I was looking at another video the other day, and it was talking about LL talking about Biggie, and he was in the studio when he wrote Who Shot Ya? Who Shot Ya? I Shot Ya. Who Shot Ya? And then I was talking about another video I seen,

and somebody was saying that Biggie had beef with The Roots back then. Yeah, yeah. Because people can't hear. These stories are amazing to me. Oh, God, can we put that one to rest? One's involved. The Biggie beef. People don't know. Like the Gooch.

The Gooch from different strokes. Right, right. It's just, you know. You can tell who's like born before 78 and after 78. Like, it's that generation thing. Anyone after 78 is like, oh, the Roots. No, it was never that. And even when y'all did the video for what they do,

I think people don't realize all of hip hop, well, not all of hip-hop, well, not all of hip-hop, but a large portion of hip-hop was that player lifestyle stuff. Oh, yeah. And folks didn't like that at the time. Oh, yeah. I mean, you know, it was a choice. You know, some people was into it.

Did y'all ever catch flack for that? He was like, nah, that's not good enough. Because it wasn't just Big. Y'all are super cool with Jay now. Did we catch any flack from Big? Yeah, yeah, yeah. I mean, you know, Big was so chill, man. Here's the thing.

Big was a huge Roots fan, and he always made that known. Anybody that I ever met from Junior Mafia, Lil' C's, Lil' Kim, anybody remotely related to Big, they would always lead with Big is a huge Roots fan. When I met Big, he came out and sang Silent Treatment to us. That was his intro yeah um so he definitely he did feel a way but i mean he wasn't gonna be like yo like why'd you play me because he didn't feel enough of a way to feel played but what he did

was um he did an interview i can't remember what publication it was but he did he did an interview one interview where he made mention of and what he said was he said look it's not like i'm going to you know go after the roots like the roots you like, look, it's not like I'm going to, you know, go after the Roots. Like, the Roots, like, I'm a huge Roots fan. I'm not going to, you know, do X, Y, and Z. But then he said, but I can't speak for Brooklyn. You know what I mean?

He put a little disclaimer on it. A little disclaimer, you know. But yeah, you know, you know, definitely big rest in power, man. That was definitely resolved. The Surgeon General might have a different opinion. Right, right.

We had a chance to resolve it because it was stupid. You know what I mean? Did you ever regret doing that video? I didn't regret doing the video. I just wish I had been more informed. Aware. It was definitely a teachable moment. You know what I'm saying?

Yeah. At the time, like, I will say, like, I was really neglectful about, like, our mark work or videos or those things. It was more like, all right, where do we stand? All right, this is what we do. And it didn't even really occur to us, like, oh, we might be ruffling feathers or, you know, of that level.

No, I mean, no, you see the final product. I have to go back and look at the video, and I understand why they would be a little upset. You see the final product, and it looks that way. You could say you had to know, but you do not. Like, we didn't know. We literally. You know what I'm saying? I be focused on my own shit, so I'm not about,

I'm not always abreast with, you know what I mean? Like, I mean, for, you know, just competition's sake, and, you know, just to stay up on what's going on. But, yeah, I don't know your video set, B. You know what I'm saying? Respectfully, you know what I'm saying? I don't, you know, I was on my own with you. So it was very much where do I stand.

And, you know what I mean? It was business. And it was just transactional in that way. And then in that video, everything was nonspecific except for just this one scene. And, you know, i had no idea i was like why would i try to single out you know i'm saying like one of my peers to to you know i mean no knowing me over the past 30 40 years that we've been doing what we do um that that just doesn't speak to my character all right now lady ladies love cool james yo now what what got you

into we're gonna start you from the beginning because it's your first time here what got you into, we're going to start you from the beginning because it's your first time here. What got you into hip hop and said, you know what, I want to be MC? Where did the love come from as a kid from Queens and say, this is what I want to do? Into the mic. Can you hear me? Yep. So, you know, when those first wave of tapes came around, like, you know, Cold Crush Brothers and and foursome seas and then you know treacherous three you know grandmaster furious five and all of those groups when they were just tapes running around you know um harlem world tapes and then the songs

came later um that was the first time that i heard you know young black kids sound empowered it was the first time that i heard you know or could envision us doing something great because before that all the images i had seen were us like handcuffed being put in a police car or some sort of charge or you know so that empowering feeling you know the braggadocio thing that you know that we really focused really focused on came not from a place of looking down on high on people, but more about I can be somebody. You know what I'm saying? The world looks at me like I'm invisible. My friends up the block get killed and nobody says anything.

So when I'm bragging and I'm boasting, what I'm really doing is saying, hey, look at me. I exist. You know what I'm saying? So for me, that was a real special thing and a spectacular thing. I mean, I'm eight, I'm nine years old, I'm saying? So for me, that was, you know, a real special thing and a spectacular thing. I mean, I'm eight, I'm nine years old, I'm 10 years old, and I'm being introduced to this thing and I just completely fell in love with it.

And then, you know, eight, nine, I'm a fan of the rap. My grandfather brought me some equipment at 11. I'm DJing, I'm messing around with that, but I'm still rhyming and I'm going back and forth. And then, you know, eventually one thing led to another and, you know, here we are. Def Jam and the whole nine. Do you consider yourself a founding father of hip hop?

Because, you know, people always will say, you know, Kool Herc or Grandmaster Flash, people like that. But as far as hip hop as we know now, I would say you and Run DMC. Yeah, so I'm, you know so I'm definitely Generation 1.5. You know what I'm saying? You got to give Flash and Herc and Force and all them, Grand Wizard Theodore, their do.

The thing that myself and Run DMC did, what we did is we took it to the world. We took it global. You know what I'm saying? We took it from the city and took it around the world. You know what I'm saying? And that was the difference. So they brought it, they took it from the Bronx and Harlem, you know,

out to the five boroughs and, you know, around the world somewhat on a, you know, not quite as, they didn't penetrate the market quite as deeply. Then we took it and made it global. I think from a Philadelphia standpoint, too, you know, just from the outside looking in, that 1.5 generation with you and artists like Run and D, that was our first time sort of seeing our own reflection. Exactly.

It was like, you know, like, again, I was a huge fan of all the other founding fathers, but they didn't look like people from around my way, you know what I'm saying? And when I saw Run, Jam Master Jay, L, they looked like the corner boys that was outside. And I saw myself in that. So that's where a lot of the inspiration for me to do what I do came from. Not to mention, you know, L is very modest,

but L literally invented what I call postmodern hip-hop. Like the three-minute rap song. LL literally invented what I call postmodern hip hop. Like the three minute rap song. 16 bar, like before LL even run DMC's first album. It's like that, it's like eight minutes. Like seven verses, you know what I mean? Like LL literally invented the 16. You know, maybe the 24th, the chorus. You know what I mean? Like oh, the song has choruses on it.

I love rap. Yeah. Like, literally emotions on rap. Like, he's pioneered for, like, so many things that he never gets credit for. And I think, like, he's so good at it. You know, like, you roll your eyes when, like, Steph Curry just, like, any shot goes in with Steph Curry. Yeah, yeah, yeah. You yeah you're like ah okay yeah yeah you're good it's like yeah whoa black thought kills shit again on another joint

no but well that's a given it's like that and oftentimes you make amazing shit look effortless right and oftentimes i think especially now that i'm in more of the business of of rearview mirrors like looking at his history um and like i'm also on the rock and roll hall of fame committee like the people that nominate the people that get in and you know even in trying to get him nominated, I was like, yo, like, we're really, like, penalizing people for being too good. Like, too effortless. Like, he was, like, the first teen idol. The first, like, there's so many firsts with him that you just, you take it for granted.

You think because people are prisoners of the moment? Like, because, you know, it seems like that whole era, especially that started in the 80s, don't necessarily get the credit they should. It's not. And people just don't look at it as art. And that's the thing. Like, we have to now. That's the one lesson I learned, especially, like, when we were organizing the Grammy thing. You know, you're using words like your legacy, your history, whatever.

And, you know, I understand sometimes with artists, like, there's a bunch of eye rolling and I don't care about this. Like, that sort of thing. Because for a lot of us, like, this is survival. And, you know, but what it really is, is it's art and it's our lives. And so I think what we need to do, especially as whatever, sages. I don't want to say elder statesmen because hip hop is so ageist. OGs. Yeah.

I'll take it all. want to say elder statesman because hip-hop is so ageist but oh geez you know yeah well i hate it i take it all i don't want to call me i take elder statesman right sage so that said it's like we need to collectively like really start looking at this like art high art you know what i mean and especially now where we're all just dying by the thousands, you know? Like, we can't take it for granted. So, like, he's in fine form, like in fighting shape and, you know. I was going to ask, when you talked about Def Jam, so let's talk about that when they came to you with a contract to sign. Do you remember what your first contract looked like and how much they gave you?

Yeah. Talk about that. First of all, much they gave you? Talk about that. First of all, you know, you got to remember that. So Def Jam was a production company. There was no label. Okay, It's Yours by Tila Rock was on Party Time Streetwise label. It was Def Jam Productions, which Rick was the producer, along with Jazzy J. And it was so, it was more than a contract they were actually

forming a label Rick was having a problem you know him and he was having problems getting his money from from the other label he was dealing with so they wanted to start this new thing so you know that first contract you know at the time um you know I had we split the publishing they gave me like 50, 000 um but but before that actually my first single i ever made i didn't have a contract when i made i need a beat which was the very first song i ever made i had no contract it was just like yo let's just get it and we'll figure it out you know what i'm saying sometimes you got to be willing to crawl over the barbed wire fence with no shirt on you know what i'm'm saying, to get what you want. So I did that, and then, you know.

Only God knows how to say no shirt on, right? He's the king. He's the king. He said, Sutaji, you gotta crawl over the barbed wire fence with no shirt on. You know what I'm saying? By the end of this tour, I'm gonna have 100 LL-isms. I'm on number six already.

I'm about to write this one down. So that was what it was. And, you know, it wasn't, listen, man. How old were you at this point? 16. Wow. I was 16 when I made, yeah, when we started Def Jam, I was 16. So my first song, you know, when I made Rock the Bells, I was 16, 17, 18.

Why did people seem so mature back then? Why did people seem way more mature back then? Because I was like kind of like in that Kobe kind of, you know, straight out of prose, straight out of high school into the pros As opposed to like kid rappers like you do have kid rappers who were 15 16 and their kid rappers I wasn't that I was ready for the big leagues You know because you were out in the streets you were out Queens was. Edit that. Edit that. No, I'm kidding. Queens wasn't hustlers.

It was a bunch of hustlers in Queens. Edit that out. Yo, nah, you know what it was is that all of my, I was listening to my heroes. I was listening to the dudes that was really spitting. And it was going hard. And there was no holding back. And you don't get that. You don't get the right.

You know, one thing about the inner city that's funny is like once you walk out on the block. You really don't get an opportunity to be a little kid, correct You know I'm saying like, you know We're gonna treat you a certain way you get you got you had that one dude or treat you like a little kid Everybody else was like and what so When I stepped on the court, you know I'm saying when I stepped in a ring of hip-hop It was just yo, this is what it is, you know what I'm saying? When I stepped in a ring of hip-hop, it was just, yo, this is what it is. You know, so I just went for it, man, and I love it so much. I signed a 10-album deal.

What? Yeah. And I remember going home saying to my mother, Ma, guess what? And they're going to let me make 10 albums. And I blew through them 10 albums like nothing. And see, the thing is, when you do it for love, the rest of everything else happens. Remember, when you see people

in the locker room after the NBA championship and they got the cigars and the champagne, that's because they loved the game all their life and they really worked hard and they really had fun.

The contracts and the champagne and the cigars come later. So all of the things that, all of the accolades that people see me with, that's because I love it so much. I didn't get into this to get paid.

And I did get paid. Did you ever feel like you should have had, like, equity in Def Jam? I did have equity in Def Jam. I did have equity in Def Jam. I just sold it a little early. But I definitely had ownership in Def Jam, ownership in FUBU.

You know, I have ownership in NCIS Los Angeles, ownership in Lip Sync Battle. I have, you know, I have ownership in NCIS Los Angeles, ownership in Lip Sync Battle. I have, you know, I own my catalog. You know, like, so the things that I do, you know, I did well, but I didn't do it for the money. And where did you get the business mind from? Was it your mom's? Was it, you know, uncle? Like, where did you get that?

Because I don't think a lot of people were thinking ownership back then. They were just thinking, I need to blow up. You know what? You know what I've learned, man? You know like and I've people may have heard me say this before you know if a homeless man tell you not to do push-ups In traffic you should listen because you might get ran over a lot of times people like yo another one Yeah, a lot of people were like yo you homeless. What do you know? So so it's like so so the business thing I learned from people before me and after me mm-hmm I hear oh you know you just stay curious and then you ask questions and then being blessed by the grace of God to be so successful

for so long that I got a lot of bites at the apples. So at the apples. So any mistakes that I may have made got a chance to be corrected because I just, you know, because of the amount of time that I'm able to be successful. You know what I'm saying? Because you got to remember, you know, I've been professional since 84. Professional. Now in terms of as in hip hop, it washop, it was way back before that. I was already ready.

See, think about it, because you got to get ready. So it's just a matter of just being curious. Reading is my hobby. You know what I'm saying? That's always been my favorite thing to do. With the moniker, Ladies Love Cool J, right? Did you always feel like these dudes are going to think I'm sweet, so I'm going gonna have to have these

these rhymes in the corner just in case the ladies love cool j thing was just wishful thinking b you know I'm 15 I want girls I'm ladies love cool j it wasn't it wasn't really that deep it could have ended up not being true it didn't have to be that. Like, people took that a little. It just kind of worked out. Ladies going love. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I hope ladies love. I-L-L-Cool J. I hope, you know what I mean? You never rebelled against the sex symbol image?

Nah, nah, nah. I mean, look, I made I Need Love because I like girls. I made, like, Rock the Bells because I like to do the hard shit. You know, I don't have, I don't understand really, you know, like me growing up, I like girls, right? So I don't understand like what we really talking about when you think about it. Like what are we talking about? Like if we're in the car, like we're not going to talk about no girls?

We're not doing that? Y'all not with that? Y'all don't want to go do that? We should stay, like, what should we do? Should we play corners in the car? Like, the whole time, whole ride? How we going? You know, how we moving? So that's why I never had

a problem with that, and I, you know, and in leading that, it's all love, you know? I don't have no... I think it's important, though, because it's like what those songs really represent is like vulnerability, which you aren't allowed to do that in the hood

because you'll be seen as weak or an easy target. That's right. But I guarantee you anyone... You know what, Quest? Honestly, let me tell you something what the you know the dudes that that feel like they'll be perceived as weak or target with that kind of when they're dealing in that area they are weak like they are weak bro like like let me tell you something that like that shit you know, putting I Need Love out,

me doing love songs is the equivalent of me walking in the projects with a neck full of jewelry. Yeah. It's the same thing. Right. Because, you know, you open it. It's a leap of faith. It's what it is.

You know what I'm saying? So there is no nervous noodle, like, with that. Like, it ain't even about that. Like, I don't even think that way because my thing is, the strength is in doing what you want to do. True. Artistically. That's where the strength is.

I do what I want to do artistically. I don't do what they say I should do because then I'm not being me. I'm fronting. I'm being somebody else, right? So, I don't even think like that. That's why I can be in a picture smiling. Don't make me feel weak.

You know, I can go do a TV show, Sesame Street. I've done it too. Right? We can do all that. Right? We can do these things. Because you don't limit yourself. See, I think that, you know, and I just say just a lot of young men in general,

never limit yourself to to the what others the perception of what other people think you should be. Don't limit yourself to that. Be yourself, right? Does that ever bother you with both of y'all that, you know, y'all are so legendary in hip-hop, but people might not look at you as a rapper. They might just look at you

as an actor. Or people might not look at y'all as the roots as in a group, but just the guys for the night you know people the younger generation especially no i think i think there's value in that we've been able to reinvent ourselves in a way that um you know like our brand has had you know different iterations different complete just lives so the fact that yeah we've been on you know tv every day for the past 15 years, it's a whole demo.

They only know us from that. So that leaves a whole new space for them to explore when they discover our body of work. And then there's people who've been diehard fans of LL and The Roots Forever who may have lost track of our musical contributions along the way. So I just appreciate the chance to sort of keep reintroducing myself. Me and Elle were just talking about how, you know, you just pop out every now and then as an artist to shut shit down

with those little, you know, not so gentle reminders, you know what I'm saying? And you good, and that's sort of how we navigate the space. And, you know, the way I look at it is it's just an opportunity. You know what I'm saying? It's a beautiful opportunity to put you up on something new. And if you don't know, come find out, come to the show. You know what I'm saying? That's why we on tour. You can come see some music. It's multi-generational, you know, just like the festival, multi-generational. So come out to the tour, come to the force tour, see what we doing. You know what I'm saying? Get put on

something new. It's that simple. You know what I'm saying? If you don't know, come find out. And I think, you know, as media personalities, I feel like we got to do a better job of preserving those legacies. Yeah. You know, because there's been times I've critiqued LL's, like a freestyle you might have did. He went to box the shit out of you. He did.

But, you know what I'm saying? But what I realized in that is people would hear that and not realize that LL got a whole catalog. Like, there's no way you can ever say LL Cool J is whack. He's one of the, he coined the term GOAT. Of course. He's an icon. He's one of the greatest of all time.

But sometimes the younger generation don't know that if they hear us critiquing something new. Well, you know what, Shaw? I'll put it to you like this. And I will say I'm not even tripping off of that because the reality is, you know, and then you're gonna miss a dunk you know i'm saying so you know if i miss a dunk it'll be a highlight but i got some good ones so i you know so so maybe i'm and if you step into the ring right and i'm talking about like in music or art or anything right like if you're gonna win championships you know a great boxer you're gonna get punched in the face so you're gonna miss some is what I'm saying.

So, you know, the critique ain't necessarily wrong. It's all right for you to, you know, say what you feel. You know what I'm saying? It's a matter of, you know, my job is just to give people consistent. Like this new album I did that Q-Tip executive produce. I look forward to introducing that to the world and looking at that, hearing your, you know, your critique and your, you know, your opinions of it. Like, this is the thing we got to do. Like, my goal is this.

I just want to show people that you can have a career that lasts decades and decades and decades at the highest level. I want to show people what's possible. You know, in hip hop, we haven't had somebody who started from the beginning and went to another level, you know, at this many years later. So this is a very unique thing that we're dealing with. So it's new to all of us.

We've never dealt with an LL Cool J. You have the Roots Band and like, this is a whole nother level now. But that's why I think you're, I actually think you're above critique. I'm not not i think yeah well you're one of those people that you can't critique ll cool j ll cool j's done it he's home already i think i think everybody can be critiqued you know i'm saying i think that i'm i'm not immune to critique i will say this though you know i put a lot of work in and i got a lot of i got you know a lot of work in. And I got a lot of, I got, you know, a lot of hardware. And, you know,

my Wikipedia is pretty long. You know what I'm saying? So it's like, you got rhymes at the hook. Forget it, I'm constipated. No, it's beautiful. Would this tour be happening without the writer's strike

in Hollywood? Yeah. Yeah, definitely. It was, I mean, we planned it sort of around, like, our breaks that would have happened during the Fallon period. But we know now.

Yeah, because we both was working, and that was why it really made so much sense, you know? Is it true that Jimmy Fallon is paying the staff out of pocket while y'all on strike? That's a no. Let me check my check. Let me check my bank account right now that was a no no i got like 19 other jobs it's not like yo where my family money at you know um no no one no one is getting paid uh after that that's kind of a myth and this may be a

stupid question but what changed your life more hollywood or hip-hop we know hip-hop changed your life and there probably would be no hollywood without it but what has elevated your life more, Hollywood or hip hop? We know hip hop changed your life, and there probably would be no Hollywood without it. But what has elevated your lives more? I will say, for me personally, hip hop has definitely changed my life. I grew up in a house with 3,000 records that I didn't like in the beginning, and then suddenly I'm starting to listen to hip hop. I'm like, wait, this is what dad listens to. Let me see what my dad got over here.

And that's what enabled me to sit here today. So it starts with really hip-hop and our shared love of it. You know, to me, hip-hop is the answer. I don't know. Yeah, for me, it's definitely the same. I would say hip-hop. I mean, not only hip-hop, but just the arts, right, has been my saving grace.

I come from just a place and time where so much and so many were lost. You know what I'm saying? Both my parents are murder victims. You know what I'm saying? My brother institutionalizedized spent over 30 years in prison so that's that's where I come from

and that's not I'm not a you know I'm not unique in that that's everybody on my block you know so

but I also come from a place where it's something in the water and you know people who I've seen invest all their you know effort and time

and energy you know to making it you know beyond the block has done extremely well I've, you know, effort and time and energy, you know, to making it, you know, beyond the block has done extremely well. I've seen, you know, I've known Wallo, you know what I'm saying, in the Meeks and the Kevin Hart's and, you know, people who have gone on to Philadelphia greatness, you know, Eve and Jill Scott and, you know, like people when they were still Olympic hopefuls, you know, so it's just dope.

I mean, I get a different kind of reassurance and inspiration just coming from where I come from, you know what I mean? And, yeah, that really just lets me know that the sky is the limit. Did y'all ever get into a trap? Hold on. What about you? Hollywood or hip-hop? Oh, man, hip-hop.

I mean, hip-hop changed my life and made it amazing way before I went to Hollywood. I was many albums in. I was, you know what I mean? Like hip-hop? Oh, man, hip-hop. Hip-hop changed my life and made it amazing way before I went to Hollywood. I was many albums in. I was, you know what I mean? Like hip-hop. Hip-hop is something that has been this important to us since before it reached, since before there was a, you know, an intersection of hip-hop and Hollywood. You know, hip-hop is 50 this year. I'm 50.

You know what I'm saying? These brothers are my elders. They're a little older than me. But, you know, like, me and hip-hop were born right at the same time. You know what I'm saying? So I definitely have always felt like, you know, the culture is my contemporary. You know what I mean? You're a founding father in that, too, huh?

Like, as far as, like, hip-hop artists who transitioned out of the world. Yeah, because, you know, who movies yeah because you know like even you know like we did crush group in 85 you know what i'm saying like you know my first appearance you know to the world you know was on a movie screen through hip-hop so i guess hollywood has been there all along for me did wildcats in 80 i've been like 30 40 movies you know what i'm saying but um it's you know listen man i love the culture you know i'm saying and i do this because i love it i could have took my ball and went home a long time ago i was gonna ask was there any at any point of any of your

lives did y'all lose love for hip-hop maybe it was the sound change maybe it was wasn't received the right way or maybe it was i'm getting money over here. Was there any time at that at all? For me, no, because I'm getting money over here has nothing to do with loving hip-hop. You know, it has nothing to do with that. You know, I don't make rap music and do hip-hop culture and rock the bells and all this to make money, to survive, rather. You know, I do it because I love it,

and I get paid doing it. But I would say... Well, I will say that, you know, there's times if you're creative and your passion turns into your livelihood, that sometimes you might have to leave it for a second. I mean, there's definitely been moments where, like, you know, like he and I have put, since 93, probably somewhere between 150 to 200 shows a year you know I mean from 93 up until like when we started found in 2009 yeah like our lives

was on a tour bus and you know the grass is always greener on the other side and so doing the tonight show allowed us especially to see what other magical powers we had. Like, I didn't know, like, oh, I can write books. And both of us are professors at NYU. You know, he wrote a play. I did a movie and all those other things. Smart team, man. Not more than smart, just curious.

I think all of us are creatives. And that's the thing. We're creatives that are discovering that sometimes our talent is transferable to other mediums and avenues. Like Tariq, you think of that hot 97 freestyle. He is a better chef. He's a better cook than that freestyle. I'll put him against any three Michelin star chef

or black grandmother or whatever. I got a taste to believe it. You're about to have my inbox blown up. I just don't believe that. No, for real. Like, he's the king. This is Gordon Ramsay. I heard you wanted the smoke.

No, he's getting up at 4 a.m. Yeah, yeah. I do my thing. I catered for the rooster overnight. I brought a bunch of grub to the show. Chefing it up. To rock the bell. I mean, you go ahead and tell them what I brought, you know what I'm saying?

Yes, everything from crab legs to lobster to collard greens to his cookie. But that's what I'm saying, his creativity. I'm able to check all the boxes. You left the chitlins home. Oh, yeah, yeah. I definitely left the chitlins home. You left the chitlins home. I definitely left the chitlins home. I left the chitlins on the grill. That had to be a moment in y'all careers where y'all questioned things, though.

You know, yeah, definitely. There have been many moments where I've questioned myself and where we've questioned ourselves as a collective. And in those moments of pause, that's when you're able to answer the call. And I think, you know, you just get those bursts of clarity, and it's been a blessing that we've been able to reinvent ourselves. You know, because, yeah, just like I was saying,

I would be making music, I would be writing songs and, you know, creating art, whether I was able to, you know, support myself and my family off of it or not. So it's a blessing. Like, you know what I mean? The plus is that I'm also able to make a career out of it. You know what I'm saying? But yeah, there's been times that I've questioned, you know, like what the next chapter would look like

or what the next, you know, sort of act, like act three of my career, you know, am I going to be able to swing another, you know, reinvention? And yeah, you know, it's those moments when you sort of listen to the universe and you go with your heart and things become more clear. You know? What about you, L?

What about you, L? Do you have a question thing? I mean, yeah, listen man, there's always gonna be a time in life where you have doubts and you have concerns and you have insecurities and you feel like uncomfortable or discomfort about certain things but like like tarik said you know answering that call and following your intuition following that that small voice inside of you and and go for it you you know you you can't be fearful in life you can't be scary and you the person that has to be

able to you have to be able to trust the most is yourself and you have to be able to trust the most is yourself. And you have to be able to trust yourself in moments when you are susceptible to fear and weakness. And you just have to find that strength and keep moving through. I'm sorry, go ahead. What is the LL Cool J insecurity? Well, it would be like maybe, okay, it's been a thousand years.

Should I make another album? Do I make another album? Should I go on the road? You haven't done this. You haven't done that. You know, the other day, you know, Sway asked me to rhyme. Like, do you say the rhyme? Like, there are little things.

Is my hat still like a shark's? You know what I'm saying? You know what I mean? You know what I'm saying? You know? You know what I mean? Or is it a dolphin? And so, you know, that's, but, you know, like I said, man, like, when you want to do something,

when you want to build something, you're going to deal with that kind of stuff. You're going to deal with them feelings. Like, there's people listening to us right now who, you know, are going through things, and they're scared. They're on the edge. You got to be able to push through that fear. You dig? Like, that's what it is.

And that's a part of being great. You know know greatness is not about comparing yourself to others greatness other people's greatness greatness is about maximizing your personal potential that's what makes you great when you maximize your potential you're great that's right you know i mean and he's as Like, you got to stop. Like, I just started, like, the practice of not people-pleasing. And oftentimes we do things in the eyes of, like, man, what's da-da-da going to say or I don't know. And the second that maybe it comes with being 50. Like, you start your I don't give a fuck phase around that time. And then that's when the magic opens. So so you know always people always ask me about that look

i always tell people i'm not a nice guy i'm a good guy there's a difference you know i'm saying like like if if a little old lady is walking down the street and some guy grabs a pocketbook and you grab the guy and break his nose and break his arm you're not a nice guy but you're a good guy you know what I mean? So there's a difference. So in life, it's all right to say no. You know what I'm saying? I'm not in this to be nice.

I'm in it to be good. You know what I mean? So that goes back to your people pleasing. I'm agreeing with you. That people please, like you don't have to please people. What it is is you put your oxygen mask on first, then you help the person next to you, right? So it's the appropriate selfishness.

You know what I'm saying? And when you've beaten people up, you felt bad about it? Depends on who it would be. Got you, got you. You know what I mean? Like, you know what I mean? Yeah, yeah. I don't know.

Wait, are y'all having a conversation? I don't know what y'all doing. He said if you beat up a guy who snatched a purse. No, I'm saying you don't feel bad at all. Yeah, yeah, yeah. You feel phenomenal. Got you, got you, got you. Because you're a good I'm saying you don't feel bad at all. You feel phenomenal. Because you're a good guy. Because you saved the old lady. Right? You feel great.

But that's not nice. It's not nice. If you would have beat up Charlamagne, would you have felt good? At that time? At that time, yeah, I'm sure. I would have felt terrible. I would have felt terrible. I would have felt terrible. Now, I gotta ask, we gotta discuss lyrical sparring, right?

So you have times have been challenged and you threw shots, whether it was Moe D back in the day, cannabis, or people even say hove. Have you ever ran into the people that you've ever had a lyrical sparring and is it all jokes and fun now or is it still like standoffish? No, I ain't no standoffish, man. That's a sport. I don't have no beef with none of the guys. Well, of course not beef, but is it all jokes and fun now? Or is it still like standoffish? No, I ain't no standoffish, man. That's a sport. I don't have no beef with none of the guys. Well, of course not beef, but is it?

No, no, when I say beef, I'm not talking about like real street beef problems. Like I'm just saying like, I don't, you know, no, I don't have any tension. Okay. There's no, I mean, some dudes, look, everybody's different, man. Some people, you know, it really bothers them. Like, you know, some people really bother. I gotta ask, like, post Jack

the Ripper, or post How You Like Me Now, like, were you and Moe D ever in the room together at any of those periods? Yeah. I walked out on stage at his concert before. Like, I'm crazy. Wait, what? There was no social media back then. Yeah.

Hey, we see each other, we laugh. Really? When you walked out, what happened? Nothing. It was ridiculous. You just walked across the stage?

I'm crazy. El kind of pioneered the rap. Yes. Well, Mo D, he'd been busy. Yeah, you know. But then with Cannabis,

you know what I mean? Have y'all spoken? I brought him out at Barclays when I performed, remember? That's right. You know what I'm saying? Ice-T, you know. But then with cannabis, you know what I mean? Have y'all spoken? I brought them out at Barclays when I performed, remember? That's right. You know what I'm saying? You and Ice-T, we've seen pictures of y'all. I mean, yeah, we got things we're doing now together.

What about you and Hov? What was you and Hov? I never understood that one either. That felt like just ego. I honestly couldn't tell you, bro. I have no idea. All I know is it's all love, you know what I'm saying? Like, you know, we Gucci. Like, for real. Like, you know, you, bro. I have no idea. All I know is it's all love. You know what I'm saying? Like, you know, we Gucci.

Like, for real. Like, you know, listen, man. Does the conversation make things straight? Or just over time, you realize it wasn't really about nothing? They said at the time you didn't like him as president of Def Jam. That's where they said it came from. Dude. Next question.

Easy to question. Y'all good, though. Y'all good, though. Is it a question? Y'all good though. Is it old street stuff? Is it stuff like that before rap? Yo, I... Next question. I'll tell you like this. I'll tell you like this, man. Listen, listen.

You know, at the end of the day, you know, I got love for everybody. You know what I'm saying? I just want to love for everybody. You know what I'm saying? I just want to do great things. You know what I'm saying? And, you know, as a matter of fact, I think there's a part in the show where I actually get into this stuff a little bit with a freestyle. So, you know, people should just come to the show and check it out

and hear how I dress it. Question, what did oil up your ankles make your Tims tap mean? Huh? Now, oil up your ankles make your Tims tap mean huh now oil up your ankles make your Tims tap what did that mean put her legs in there oh

got you you know what I mean oh shit oh shit okay okay you know what I mean

he didn't understand he didn't understand that on skeevy he was like we've never heard skeevy before I'm like ske Skivvy? That's me and Ty Fife running around like, that's me and Ty Fife.

You know what I mean? It's all good. All right. Okay. Are you done with movies? Because it's been like, and this just came on my radar. It's been 10 years? It's been a long time.

Since you did a movie? Yeah, 10 years since you did a movie? No, I'm actually thinking about, I'm looking at some scripts now, and I got some things that I'm working on. You know, I also, you know, I'm going to be doing, you know, at the time, you know, but right now I can't really talk about that because there's a strike going on, so I can't really get into, you know what I'm saying, that I want to be supportive

of all my fellow actors and writers out there. So I can't really get into it, you know what I'm saying? Let's talk about music then. How do y'all feel about, because we are celebrating 15 years of hip hop, how do you feel about icons that haven't gotten paid? Like icons that really paved the way, laid this foundation, but they haven't gotten paid

the way they feel like they should? You know, that's the million dollar question in music history, because it happens with blues artists, it's happened with my dad's doo-w um i'm sorry oh good no good um you know look i started rock the bells as a company right so i gave dj cool hurt equity um run dmc has equity in in rock the bells ownership um roxanne shantae has ownership big daddy kane has ownership in Rock the Bell's ownership. Roxanne Shantae has ownership. Big Daddy Kane has ownership. Salt-N-Pepa has ownership.

What? Yeah. I gave Eminem actually invested. He wrote a check. He has some. You know, Ernie Panicoli, the photographer, hip-hop photographer, has ownership. I gave, you know, quite a few different people. Fab Five Freddy has ownership. I gave quite a few different people, Fab Five Freddy has ownership.

And because we've created such a high valuation with Rock the Bells and what that's become, that equity is going to mean something for them in their estates. So why did I answer like that? Because my thing is this, you don't get bitter, you get better. And instead of, when I felt like,

oh, I don't feel like they play my music enough. I got my own channel. Right. But then I decided, you know what? It's not about me, though. It's about the culture. So I'm going to play. I'm not going to be a pig.

I'm going to flip it. I'm going to make sure that I take care of everybody. So we rock the bells. That question is being answered through action. You feel you feel what I'm saying? And that that's really what it's about. You know what I'm saying? So that's really what it's about. You know what I'm saying? But I'll tell you this.

For every Saab story that we hear about, there are a lot of great stories too. Run DMC are doing phenomenally well financially. There are a lot of artists that have come from that era that really did well. You know what I mean? I see Run in the grocery store with the fur on in the summertime. All the time. In the summer? In the summer?

With that fur on. Absolutely. In the summer with the road, with the fan, whatever that is. Was that a ghost? I don't know. The ghost. He got a ghost. It was a fan and now it's a ghost.

Yeah, yeah, yeah. So, look, where there's some people out there, look, what I can say about, one thing I can say about Russell and, you know, even Lior later is that, least well russell and rick especially with that first deal they didn't bang me out they didn't screw me over they didn't you know you know like i they started it with a 50 50 publish and obviously i got it all back now but even that start at 50 50 could have been zero i would have signed for zero right so like i think we just got to take out grandmaster cass has equity in rock the bells like real ownership so that that kind of a thing so when

you see the festival and when you see all the things we're doing and when you see all the stuff in the stores and all the stuff they're they're getting paid they're going to get paid from now so that's how you deal with that you know what i mean charlotte that's how you deal with it you don't deal with it by complaining and pulling out the world's smallest violin and just talking about how sad it is that it happened again. You do something about it.

There are other things that are happening as well that you'll know about later. Like a union or something? You'll hear about it later. But you're also hiring DJs too. Hiring people and hiring personalities and hiring people on your show and concerts and festivals. Like, I speak to a lot of DJs that are older statesmen,

and they say that, you know, L is keeping them alive with the mixes and the programming and the shows and the tours. And that's very important because, you know, people have kids. They have families. They have— We got to take care of each other, man. You know what I'm saying? Like, yo, let's take care of each other. That's I'm saying like yo, let's take care of each other

That's all yo, listen, it's kindergarten. It's really just kindergarten stuff. Mm-hmm, you know chair That's another share a little bit that one is real kindergarten He's the king of every idiom I wish an older male had told me in my life. With that said, is there anybody that hasn't gotten credit or light shined on them that should for what they contributed to hip hop? I feel like it's a lot of artists. There's a lot. So many. But, you know, hopefully.

Fantastic Romantic. With what we're doing. Yeah. Hopefully what we're doing, it'll sort of elevate their situations. I keep seeing— Fearless Four, Grand Wizard Theater. Russell keeps talking about somebody named Hollywood. DJ Hollywood. DJ Hollywood.

Who was on the festival. Yeah, DJ Hollywood. You know, he got a show coming to rock the bells. I mean, so many artists. You know what I'm saying? Listen, man, all of the Cold Crush, you know, so many of them. You know, you think about these different guys and people that rock. Disco Dave, Easy Mike, different artists, different people.

Man, this culture is very rich. Globe, Pow Wow, Mr. Big. These are artists who largely made their contribution before there was anything regulatory set up, anything, yeah, a model set up for you to even be compensated for your art in that way. So folks who did it for the muscle, for the love, for the art, you know what I'm saying?

And had it not been for the coverage of the Fearless Crew, the Mendo would be lost, as they say. You know, when you look at those, when you look at, you know, Space X going up in the air, just, you know, send a little kiss up in the air for the Wright brothers. You dig what I'm saying? It's like, you know, you just got to remember, like, you know what I'm saying? Like, they harnessed, you know, the physics existed. You know what I'm saying? They figured out how to harness the laws of physics that already existed.

Once they harnessed it, then people were able to take that and elevate it, take it to another level. So that's why the credit for me, like I look at a Roots band and I look at how exceptionally talented they are. Thor as an MC, Quest as a drummer and producer and both of them as artists in general, right? Like, the

credibility in art, in music, you have to look at that. The one thing that I would say is what we have to be very, very careful of is measuring artistic greatness by the number of commas in your bank account.

They are not the same thing. And that is a, that we have to be very careful of that. The Wright brothers did not have what, you know, Boeing has financially. Even if you prorate it, go back then,

they don't have that. So we have to be mindful of that. Art is art. And I want hip hop, like Quest said hip-hop needs to be judged artistically. You know, it's not about, like, look, the ability, and I've been saying this, the ability to be a businessman and an entrepreneur and capture value is very important in society. It's very important for what we do. You know what I'm saying?

You got to get to the bag. That being said, that's not the only measurement for art. You know what I'm saying? Nobody cares about how much Leonardo da Vinci made off the Mona Lisa. We don't even know. We don't know, yeah. We don't have no idea. We just like the painting.

Do you feel like hip-hop has gone there in a nasty place where people are more concerned with the finances and less concerned with the actual art? Yeah, I think with any uh anything that was once an underground or you know sort of below radar that becomes the mainstream suddenly turns into the thing that it was once against you know um for hip-hop you know jazz at one point was like an outlawed music you know the FBI shutting everybody down

like jazz was the gangster rap of his day back in the 40s and you know hip-hop was definitely outlawed music in the 80s and 90s and now like suddenly it's like your grandparents music I mean it's just the the evolution of it all but you know I was just thinking as as a people because we were you know it's you're pressed to find any black person that doesn't live in in fight or flight you know in sort of a panic and hip-hop where it's like hustle survive that sort of thing like we really weren't ever given a space to be creative or dream or all those things which you know these brothers over here like made exceptions to that because they definitely came from environments in which they could have been statistics you know but because we allowed ourselves the space to dream and that so i think

at the end of the day um hopefully especially as a people thing after the pandemic more and more black people are getting into like mental health space and that sort of thing um hopefully the art will change but you know hip-hop is what it is because you know where we are as a people politically financially monetarily artistically in 2023 and you see what's happening in the news right now like it's it's every man for itself and that's why we're doing it like that's why the tour is all about like just doing it official and doing it just doing cool shit and doing stuff that's like really you know official you know

i'm saying like like we're not playing like that's why when you come to when you come see us on the road it's crazy you know it's really like we're not we're not doing a commercial thing yes we have commercial aspects to the show. I have some commercial songs in it, but I'm also digging in the crates and doing some things that people aren't even familiar with and doing things that people haven't seen before or seen live. So this is an opportunity really to get reintroduced to, in my opinion, how hip-hop originally was supposed to be presented to the world.

You know what I'm saying? Like, I'm really presenting it that way. It's a balance, though, right? Because you're not LL Cool J without those big commercial smashes, right? Like, you still might be an LL Cool J, but you might not be the guy we know. And Black Thought, you're one of the nicest people to ever pick up a microphone,

but you necessarily don't have the mainstream hits, so people may not recognize that aspect. So it's a balance, right? It definitely is. It's definitely a balance. It is. But the thing about what I would add to that is that, for me, I couldn't have made the songs that you're referring to if I didn't have the fundamentals as an MC.

See, people don't realize the degree of difficulty of creating those kinds of songs. They think the freestyle is harder, but it's not. You know what I'm saying? The difficulty associated with creating the level of songs that I created, that's, you know, if it was that easy, then everybody would do it, right? So, but the difference is, because that's not all I did, because I'm really an MC from the ground all the way up, all the way up from people who, like you're talking about, are only familiar with those kinds of records. They don't even think about Ill Bomb. They don't think about Nitro. They don't think about

It Gets No Rep. They don't think about all these other songs. They know of Roundaway Girl and I Need Love and Mama Said Knock You Out, which is hard of, you know, doing it.

They know those songs. Headsprung, you know, which, by the way, it's Big L.A. A bit silly. They call me Big L.A. Big Money, Big Really. I just want to be clear. They it's Big L.A. A bit silly. They call me Big L.A. Big money, big really. I just want to be clear.

They call me Big L.A. When did they call you Big L.A.? You know? When was the Big L.A.? That was another. I hope they probably will call you that. When was the Big L.A.? You know what I mean?

They call me Big L.A. For that matter, Charlamagne, when was the Cool J ever? Okay. I mean, you know you you call yourself what you want to call yourself right so now what was your what was your most favorite hip-hop moment all yeah what was the the most memorable memorable favorite moment um for me you know I mean there's been very many of them um I mean you know I can't take anything away from again the Grammys earlier this year uh was was phenomenal for me and not as much I mean, you know, I can't take anything away from, again, the Grammys earlier this year

was phenomenal for me. And not as much, I mean, I feel like the rehearsals, you know, maybe more so than the production, you know what I mean? In that it was just such,

it was, it was, you know, it felt like, you know, I was part of a thing that there were generations of, it was multiple generations of

in the room, you know what I'm saying? And me being in a room with dmc and dmc standing in next to the rapper that made him want to do it and you know just so on and so forth grandmaster flash jazzy jeff you know i mean going all the way down the line that was huge for me um but you know one you know a standout moment for me like when i felt like i had arrived as an MC, was many years ago, was it 96 a great day in hip hop? 98, when was that? 98.

The Source Magazine shoot? Double XL. Double XL, yeah. It was the day we mastered Things Fall Apart. It was like September 28th, 1998. Word. So yeah, like in 98, when, you know,

everybody, they got all of hip hop essentially together. Or at least, you know, people who represented every genre, you know, everybody, they got all of hip hop essentially together. Or at least, you know, people who represented every genre, you know, every region. We all got together in Harlem and took a photo. I remember that. Oh, yeah, I remember that. I wanted to be there.

Based on the image that Gordon Parks took, you know, years ago, that was a great day in jazz where all the jazz musicians took the same photo on these, you know, in front of these brownstones in Harlem. And I had to step out right before this photo was taken. I had to step out to like run, use the bathroom, or some stupid shit. And I left, and when I came back,

they was ready to take the picture. So I'm like, excuse me, ushering my way back through the crowd. Because I think where they had the roots was way in the nosebleeds of this image. And as I'm making my way back up to the top I bumped into Raquel you know when it was my first time meeting him in person and when he looked at he had like a hoodie on your eyes I know who I bumped into when I looked at dude it was like a druid or somebody he lift his head up pulled the hoodie back he was

like oh shit you thought and I he was how he was like more excited to meet me and I was like yo like I must be that dude. Like I'm fucking here, yo. Rock Kim is like to meet me. You know what I'm saying? And yeah, that was a huge moment for me, man. I went back up there and I took the pick and there. Things have never been the same.

For me, I think the biggest moment in hip hop, for me in my entire career, the moment that like really, it was they call me Big Ellie big silly big money big really I mean that big Ellie moment listen I want to talk I want to talk about just how fun it is, you know, for me as an artist, as someone, you know, who came up just quoting all these lyrics to, you know, to have a chance to support my heroes, you know what I mean? It's always a full circle moment for me when I get up there and I get to sort of play the supporting role to an LL or a Kane or a Rakim.

You know what I'm saying? Rap superheroes, man. Yeah, it's huge for me. You know, but what's impressive, though, what'sim or you know what I'm saying? Rap superheroes man. Yeah, it's huge for me. You know what's impressive though? What's impressive is you know everybody's catalog. Yeah, absolutely. You have a photographic memory and you sound great and you know it's like

it comes natural. So it's like you're a pro. You know what I mean? And you got a wide mic and still can stay out the way. So that's some real shit. Like you know everybody don't know how to do that. Like I'm used to that. You know what I mean got a wide mic and still can stay out the way. So that's some real shit. Like, you know, everybody don't know how to do that. Like, I'm used to that. You know what I mean? So it's like those kinds of things.

Like, I mean, look, I love working with them. I love the, you know, what we're doing. You know, I think that when people come and see this tour and see how we're doing it, the guests we bring in and out you know from from the rick ross's to the whether depending on what city we're in queen latifah method man red man or juvenile or even iced tea he's he got some dates on the tour he's gonna be out there with me on stage to um i mean so many different acts that'll be on the stage i think people are going to be blown away so so you just

this is one of those times when i would just suggest that people come and witness history you know you you ask questions about hip-hop you have questions about the 50th anniversary of hip hop you have questions about okay ll you were there since the beginning you've seen it you've done a lot of things this is a chance for you to come and witness how it's done you know for real at a high level you know I'm saying on a plus stage high level so it's good how stressful was putting together the 50th anniversary Big silly. Big money. Yo, the big Ellie. I'll put it this way. Big Kwesi. I'll put it this way.

Two of the artists dropped out an hour before taping. And the thing is, is that it's so tightly choreographed that you're not just dealing with. Like, we make it look easy. Like, okay, da-da-da is not here right now, so let's just skip his part. No, because the show is live. So this means that now I personally have to run to the light people to tell them, yo, the 7-minute and 13-second portion until 8.23 is out. And while they're doing the show live, commercial breaks they have to now edit then you have to run to the dancers and tell them hey guys bad news blah blah blah blah blah is not here anymore so and they're all like dejected but then you gotta also you literally

have to like i didn't it was the most macgyver thing i ever did in my life where and it still came off like i i wasn't even aware that louis Vert had got my text for him to come on stage to do that. So I'm thinking, I don't know if you remember Purple Rain when, like, Prince stormed off stage after Purple Rain because he thought, like, he fucked up. Like, I was about to have a panic attack. Like, it's over. It's over. And all the roots are celebrating. I'm like, wait, what are y'all celebrating for?

And they're looking on Twitter like, you see this? And I was like, wait, Uzi was on stage? Loved it. Only because where I was positioned, I couldn't see my peripheral. I like him. Couldn't see if he actually, like, literally. I will say, yeah, the way the stage at the Grammys this year was set up, it was two complete different stages.

Yeah. You know, so, like, half the band was, you know, essentially in a different room so it came off but just as the person was the traffic cop making up for you know okay we gotta skip this song that or whatever like it was a difficult one it was a hell mary throw and and then you know you got it you gotta talk to people you know what i'm saying you gotta you know everybody has to be you know you have to you know some people you have to, you know, some people you have to like, you know, rub lavender scent under their nose. Another dude needs a goddamn,

he needs a cup of black coffee. This one over here, you gotta put your thumb right on his trap, right as you talk to him. This one, you gotta snap your fingers. Okay, okay. You know what I mean? So it's like, somebody's distracted. You know what I mean? I feel like that's an impossible show to do, though.

Because you're going to miss people. And people are going to get mad i don't recommend it well i don't recommend it i just recommend that you you make sure that you know what you're getting into because back in november i was like oh yeah i want to do this and then by january i was like uh i see what y'all did now good guy not nice guy right right we we knew in advance we couldn't have everybody it'd be 10 000 advance we couldn't have everybody. It'd be 10,000 people. We can't do 10,000 songs in a row. Yeah, my first draft was like 28 minutes,

because I included everybody. You know what I mean? So we had to whittle it down to... Hip-hop deserves that, though, right? I think so. Hip-hop deserves the 28 minutes on stage. We wouldn't have made it live, but, you know, Grammy's a three-hour fair, and there's other categories and all that stuff.

Yeah. I heard you're doing one on your own. But, again, something's going to happen. That's what I heard. I heard LL's doing – I'm hearing that you're doing one on your own. Well, we're talking about all of us. You know, we're talking about some things. Yeah.

You know, we got some cool stuff. And when LL's involved, like, it's extra special. So it's not just, like, something monumental is really going to happen. I feel like it's got to be regional ones. It's got to be somebody curating Philly, somebody curating New York, somebody curating L.A., somebody curating Atlanta. I just think they all need to be represented. Yeah.

Like me, I love, look, Philly was like, come on, man. Between Philly and Baltimore, I mean, Philly going to lady b after midnight and you know doing all that you know for me was unbelievable i love philly i used to do philly shows like two three times a month oil up your ankles let you tim's tat you better believe it you better you better believe it no we literally all the way live. No, we literally fought tooth and nail to make sure that everybody was included. Because I know everyone had their criticisms like, ah, where was that at that?

Or that or that wasn't included. It was just like what we were working with was really, you know, it was supposed to be 11 minutes, and we fought hard for those 13 minutes. Like, we just. And you got to remember how many millions of dollars those minutes cost, right? You know what I'm saying, Quest? Like, it's not, you know, we do it right by our culture. And that's the thing.

Quest, look, did a massive job curating it, you know, orchestrating it, kind of moving these pieces around. You know what I'm saying? Like, you got to have, you know, you do the best you can, right? We knew we couldn't please everybody. You know, he did everything within his power to make sure that everybody was represented on some level. Everybody from Chuck D to Glorilla and Lil Baby, right? Like, you know, and that's it.

So now, here we are. I know y'all got to go, but know, and that's it. So now, here we are. I know y'all gotta go, but I got a couple more questions. How do y'all feel about this? Because Billboard had y'all ranked number 10 group of all time. Really?

Yeah. LL, they had you ranked number 14 of the top rappers ever. And you coined the term goat, but for some reason

your name doesn't always get put in those goat conversations. How did that... Because he's too good. People can overlook that. Well, you know, I guess I just got to do something about it. I guess that's... That just means I got some work to do. You know what I mean? I guess that's what it means.

I mean, I could sit here and come up with a thousand different excuses, but at the end of the day, I guess my job is to change that narrative. So, to be continued. What about y'all? For me, man, like, I'm not, you know, I'm fine. Like, wherever, when I do fall, like, on those lists, it's always, you know, just an honor

to be held in the company that I'm held in. You know what I'm saying? There's never any other artists on those lists that I don't feel, you know, deserve it. But, you know, where you rank, I think that it's relative. And I think that it varies from person to person, different folks' opinions. Yeah, I know I'm a force to be reckoned with. Everybody know that.

So I'm fine with it. Yeah, and the other thing I would add is that, you know, I think this is an overused term but but in my case i'm different yeah yeah you know what i'm saying like i really am that's the fact so it's like you know you know a lot of times those lists are based on what have you done for me lately and there's a lot of recency bias kind of sprinkled in those lists um rec you know what i'm saying you know what i'm saying yeah you know you know so i understand that and i get it it's it's the equivalent of asking somebody who's a better basketball player like yeah i don't like the sports analogies because art isn't a sport

i can be 70 and do this but i would say that like you know you have people who have seen you know different ball players play in the post-internet era. And then you've had people who didn't play in the internet era. And then you're trying to compare them. So you can't, you compare Jordan to whoever you want to pick in the new era. And people don't get those comparisons. Boat Chamberlain to Jordan to LeBron to Steph. So they don't understand, like understand how much the world changed,

how much I changed the world if you wasn't there. You just don't understand that. You know what I mean? You have to remember that. Okay, just with Def Jam alone, name the artist that was signed to Def Jam. At that time? No, just over time.

A zillion people. Name five. Jay-Z. Jay-Z. L.R. Cool Jillion. Name five. Jay-Z. Jay-Z. Hello. Beastie Boys. Boy, Jay-Z. Public Enemy.

Public Enemy. The Roots. Okay, okay. All right, so let's stop right there, right? So I'm the first artist on Def Jam. It was a production company. Tila Rock. I'm the first artist.

I put the label on my back, and I got us the distribution deal with my album. Wow. You're welcome. What are we talking about what are we really talking about here like so i'm just saying that like that's putting the work in to really be a pillar so now creatively with this new album what i what i look to with The Force, because the album is called The Force, Frequencies of Real Creative Energy. And what I'm looking to do with this is to give people, you know, a body of work that really gives them an opportunity to go a little deeper into what I do, you know what I'm saying, and really get into it

so that we can have these, maybe those lists. I think the lists will change soon, you know? Like I said, I think certain people can't be ranked. I think you're one of those people who can't be ranked. You know what I really think? You know what my honest opinion is, Charlamagne? I think that every, I think art is about the observer, and music is about the listener.

And it is how that art affects the observer or how that music affects the listener that that's, so the fans of fans let the fans judge like people always ask me what do you want your legacy to be it's like that's you're never gonna be able to decide that you put all your work in in the moment and then you let the fans decide that you know I'm saying so when it comes to those lists let the writers decide that if that's what the people in that room felt cool we also know that there's some people running around right now there's a guy in a barbershop who said he's been loving me and i saved his life for years and he loves everything i do and there's a girl that feels the same way so

it's not really those judgments are not really what it's about for me right totally you know i'm saying i just want my fans the ones that love ll cool j whether the day ones or the new fans to to hear my music to come on the road to enjoy what i do to love what we're doing together I just want my fans, the ones that love LL Cool J, whether the day ones or the new fans, to hear my music, to come on the road, to enjoy what I do, to love what we're doing together, and that's it. You know what I'm saying? How do we create those conversations, though?

Because you did when you said you're the GOAT, right? Yeah. That started a whole new conversation. How do you start those conversations to let people know, like, nah, this is a revered icon? I mean, Rika and I are in the production business now. Yeah, I think, yeah. It boils down to telling those stories, you know what I'm saying?

And us being able to tell our own stories, you know what I mean? I might have to do a documentary. I might. Yeah, I would hope so. Yeah, I might have to do a documentary. Absolutely. You know, I just never wanted to do a movie or documentary

because I just didn't feel like looking at myself for hours and hours dealing with that bullshit. But you have to, though, because you don't tell the story. Because who's going to tell the story? We're telling you. We have control. We have control of our own narrative. Did you leave the camera running?

You're inside. Like, do you have a collection of, like, you know, hey, I'm coming here to make Walking with the Panda. You're probably the perfect person to do that and help me with that. I mean, tell your own story. Absolutely. I got to ask, I'm coming here to make Walking with the Panda. You're probably the perfect person to do that and help me with that. I mean, tell your own story. Absolutely. I gotta ask, I know you gotta go,

but the Mount Rushmore of hip-hop to y'all, who would be the four faces on there? Objectively, not even personally. You can't be too personal. And we're telling the story. I'm not those people that put his cell phone, his own list. No, no, no, I mean,

I'm just saying like your personal favorites. Like in the future when we're not here and somebody's looking like who are those people? They call me Big L. I'm sorry.

I'm sorry. I had to do it. I'm sorry. I'm sorry. I'm sorry. All right. So my as as as a music lover DJ

and a producer and you know I'm representing my era, you know. I was 17, 18, and 88. So for me, to hear my record, to hear my record, my parents' record collection come alive in these records was everything. So I would say that probably my Mount Rushmore of albums would probably be... You're doing albums, not artists. Well, yeah. Cheating.

No, it's too monolithic. Can you give that man an answer? For me, albums-wise, I would say Nation of Millions, 3Fi and Rising, End of the 36, and probably, lastly, I might say Midnight Marauders. Those four records sort of informed me to go deeper into the culture and actually to get my own career.

So I wouldn't have faced, I mean, they'll have MCs or whatever. I don't know. But for me, those are my- What's the criteria for the Mount Rushmore? What is the criteria? I think people, I would look at people that are founding fathers,

but also shaped hip hop as we know now in its whole totality. From music to commerce, everything. See, when you get into commerce, when you start talking commerce, it changes. No commerce, no commerce. But I mean, the commerce, like, because it's art, because we're talking art.

But there are people who transform the game with their art. Like, Dr. Dre transformed the game. He just happened to sell millions of records doing it. Well, the commerce, but I would say the beats would be the commerce, not the selling of the records. If your entire... The selling of records is commerce, but when you say commerce to me,

I'm thinking about business outside of music. Yeah. That's how I took it. Let me ask, if your entire hip-hop record collection and tape collection were taken away from you which four would you want to save just for your own listening pleasure i mean that you know for me it's uh on the album side yes you mean just like

house is burning down you get to say four joints i need you know, look, man, I just keep it simple. To me, when you talk about, like, a real Rushmore and you talk about the shaping of the culture, you have to look at its first principles. You know, it's like anything else. You break it down to first principles, right? And, you know, you got to put DJ Kool Herc. He started the shit.

He ain't on Rushmore. He just started it. No big deal. No big deal deal just something I did okay and then you have to put Run DMC up up there because they kicked down the doors and the walls and you know put me on their back to a certain extent as well and I was the solo guy who went out there got shot out of that you know cannon, cannon, right? And then you have to put, you know, Flash and Mel. Flash, because, you know, he made us dream of the culture, the DJ, the art of the DJ, the idea that a DJ could affect culture and move culture. Flash made us do that. And then you got to say Mel because he was the first original prolific writer

that wrote songs that were beyond just the bragging. Not just the bragging because the bragging was very important. See, now, you know, we got all sophisticated and we look down on the bragging. But like I said earlier, the bragging was our way to get out of our turmoil and out of that drama that we were in in that inner city. That's the core of what we do. Like, those are the core. You know what I'm saying?

You have a couple of others, but, like, that core right there is the real core. Now we can get anything after that fan-based. You know, it's based on, oh, he made money, or, oh, he had a lot of platinum albums, or, oh, he got people to change their shirts. Oh, yo, he got, you know, all of that is cool. But DJ Kool Herc, Run DMC, Grandmaster Flash, and Mel, like, bro, like, you removed that in, like, what you got? For me, I think it boils down to just who had the most impact, you know, upon my craft. And I think it's always been just like a balance between, you know, a certain cadence and,

you know, something more stylistic. So I give props to, you know, the L's and, you know, the BC boys and the Chuck D's and even running them, even though they weren't Def Jam artists. But that whole first wave of Def Jam artists were the first people that I heard had, you know, that, yeah, that, that, that, that, that rush roster. They had that powerful cadence that was just different from what Mel and Curtis Blow and everybody was doing. You know what I'm saying? Run DMC, you know what I'm saying? They came out like, war's going on. LL Cool and Chuck D, you know what I mean? dmc you know i'm saying they came out like war's going on l l cool and chuck did you know i mean yelling there was the yelling so it was you know that was like wow like they had arrived they you know changed the way um i wrote you know i'm

saying after i was exposed to that um so that whole wave will be you know half of my mount rushmore then the other half will be once artists, you know, started doing something stylistic that, you know, made the voice more comparable to an instrument, right? So, you know, the Rakims and Kains and G-Raps, you know, people who, you know, that next graduating class or, you know, the, you know, 1.5 version of what Elenin was doing, who came out and said, you know, I'm going to challenge myself to do this and not have to yell, you know what I mean? I want to draw you in in a different way. So I think what I've done has always been a balance between the two. So that's sort of my Mount Rushmore. I think, you know, one artist that I think has definitely navigated that well,

I mean, definitely earlier on in his career was Cube. You know what I'm saying? I think, you know, when Cube came out, you know, when he broke off from N.W.A. and started doing his solo shit, that was the space that I wanted to occupy. I felt like that was reflective of sort of where I was in between a Chuck and the narrative storytelling of a G-Rap. Did Cube ever write for you?

Or collaborate on this record? You can still tap as Joy. Write for me. You can still tap as Joy, Al. You can tap as Joy, Al. No, no, no. Did you ever collaborate? No, no, no.

We never did any music together. No, no, no. I heard somebody say that recently. No, yeah, yeah. People have a fantasy. Didn't DJ Poole produce on some of your old stuff? Absolutely. Absolutely.

DJ Poole, Bobcat. Because remember, my second album was on. Who was old stuff? Absolutely. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Absolutely. DJ Poole, Bobcat, because remember my second album was on. Wait, Poole was part of that crew? Yeah, yeah. He wasn't in the LA Posse, but he was definitely part of our crew when we produced Big N Defa. What? Yeah, yeah. DJ Poole, Bobcat, you know what I'm saying?

LA, Dwayne Simon, Daryl Pierce, they all were part of that. Yeah, no question. Yeah, I saw this on the internet. Somebody said around that time, Cube was helping you. You know what? People have this, you know, they got a lot of stories, bro. They come up with a lot of stories. You know what I mean?

Hey, Michael Jordan, did somebody ever bounce the ball for you and shoot your jump shot for you? Like, no, I shot the jump shot. I just always find it interesting who did you write like because the st i just heard the story of you writing for lights verse on self-destruction who else have have you written well i know like michael bivins shot i've done things for different people i don't you know you know i've have there been some legendary rhymes from classic stuff that you wrote? We will never know about that.

You'll take to your grave like, yeah. Oh, wow. Why? Because it was a different time, and people just don't talk about it. But I wrote for people. But at the same time, listen, I'm not above collaborating on a chorus or working on something. I'm not picky like that. If I was writing a rhyme and somebody said, yo, set a word, I'd be like, all right, I like that word. I'm not above collaborating on a chorus or working on something. I'm not picky like that.

If I was writing a rhyme and somebody said, yo, set a word, I'd be like, all right, I like that word. I'm cool with that. But I write my songs. You know what I'm saying? I have to because it has to come from me. And if you collaborate too much, at least from LL Cool J fans, if I collaborated too much with somebody on writing,

it would affect what they're listening to. It wouldn't sound like me. You know what I mean? Because they are very unique things to LL Cool J, to Black Thought, to Quest Love. So you have to be, you know, very specific. Specificity is universal. You know what I mean? One of the things that I've encountered, you know, as a writer in my career is I'm a little

better at it now since I worked on musical theater. But, you know, people would hire me to write for them and it would be hard for me to write in their voice or to write in a way that's going to make them sound any other than, you know,

like someone who's doing a Black Thought. That's hard to dumb down? Impressive, right, you know? It's hard to dumb down? Not even. I wouldn't say it's a dumbing down. It's just, you know, composing and arranging

in a different voice other than your own. It's not as easy as one would down it's just you know uh composing and arranging in in a different voice other than your own um it's it's not as easy as one would think it is you know um so yeah you know it's definitely like people who are like ghostwriters who are able to you know be like water in that way and if i'm writing for you like it feels like you um that's uh that's that's that's that's something this is a quiet gift that yeah people people sort of learn over time yeah so i'll give you i'll give you an example. So I tried to do a more collaborative writing album. I did a whole album with 50 Cent.

Oh, yeah, 50 Cent. And we were writing together on this album. And when it was done, I listened to it. I'm like, it sounds good. I like the music, the rhymes. It sounds cool, but it ain't me. So I didn't put it out. It wasn't nothing against 50 I love 50 I just wanted to try something different maybe we collaborate right together it didn't work

I think you said Paradise was the song no no no no Paradise is totally different 50 wrote the chorus on Paradise for A. Marie what she sung he didn't write my rhymes you know I mean like people get that a little you know I'm saying that being said when when that happened i didn't even know 50 was involved that was the track masters they got that done right so and they played with the chorus i liked it etc but um you know we tried to work together and um that's my man you know i'm saying we real cool um but the collaborative thing when it comes to my verses that doesn't work for me and know, I'm kind of like, it's funny. When you do this a long time, the longer you do this, the more people, does he still got it?

Can he still do it? Is he going to be able to do it? It kind of reminds me of the Crawford fight the other night. There were a lot of people who, like, were really, like, nervous for Crawford. I picked Chris. Yeah, there was a lot of people that were nervous for Crawford when he was walking in the ring. And he showed

what it is. And I think with me, for whatever reason, people are never quite sure how it's going to be. Do you like being underestimated? I love it. I actually love it. I'm good with that. I'm good with that because that,

you know, that only makes the jab that much stiffer. Is it underestimated or is it the fact you've been winning for so long and it just comes to a point where people are just like, God damn, can he lose at something? Can he be bad at something? You know what I mean? Or they forget. Happens to every dynasty. Well, you know, it all comes with the territory, right? Like I'm a big Denzel Washington fan. I love Denzel. He does great movies. You can take him for granted because he's so nice with his thing. Like, I don't, you know, I'm going to be real with you, man. I feel very loved.

I feel very respected. I feel, you know, like number one. I feel like the GOAT. I feel good. I feel recognized. I feel appreciated. I don't have hang-ups about how people perceive me. I'm not pretending to be 14, and I ain't going to pretend to be 60.

I'm just who I am. You know what I'm saying? I know you guys got to go. I got one question. You know you don't say that shit all the time. We can chat. You say that like once every half an hour. We can get a text.

We got to wrap up. They got to go. Once every half hour. But I got to ask, right? So we all go out to dinner, right? Right. LL is paying for dinner because we usually, the person with the most money, the richest person pays, right? So LL.

Now, when y'all and Magic go out to y'all billion dollar boats and y'all traveling, y'all go to SpaceX and all that, who pays for that? Most of the time, Magic. Most of the time, Magic pays. Every now and then, I pay. I do pay. I do pay. But, you know, I got nothing to prove. I'll get the check, man.

And how many hats do you own, L.O.? Do you have a hat closet? Probably as many as you got sneakers. You know what I mean? There you have it. I already do. Was there ever a time you were insecure to take the hat, though? Of course.

Absolutely. But then, you know, we get over that too, don't we? Like, it's pretty obvious. I mean, it's pretty obvious. I did 14 seasons of TV, you know what I mean, with a bald head. So in too deep, bald head. I just didn't like that. I just always felt comfortable with my hat.

Classic role, very underrated role when you played God in too deep. Yeah. You know, actually, Omar, we've been, you know, I talk to Omar every now and then. You know what I'm saying? That's my man. In Too Deep was definitely a fun movie.

People should see it if they haven't seen it. It was fun. Glad you have it. Thank you. We appreciate it. Make sure you get tickets for the tour. How can they get tickets if they need to? I mean, just go to Ticketmaster.com and check it out,

the Force Tour. Hello, Cool J and the Roots. And, oh, one other thing I want to tell you. I mean, just go to Ticketmaster.com and check it out, the Force Tour. A little Cool J and the Roots. And, oh, one other thing I want to tell you. This show is not like the music stops, then another artist comes on, then the music starts, then another artist stops. Yeah, I'm going to show up an hour or two before I go back. Yeah, don't show up. This is one long, what is it, two, three hours?

Yes, it's one long mixtape. It's a mixtape. Think of the Grammys and that's how we're formatting. One long mixtape. Another day at the Rock and Roll. All right, so get there and that's how we're formatting. One long mixtape. Alright, so, you know, get there on time. You know what I'm saying? Don't be trying to make a grand entrance and shit.

Feet hurting and all that. Just get in on time and let's have some fun. You know what I mean? They call me Big L.A. LL Cool J, the Rook, ladies and gentlemen. It's the Breakfast Club. Good morning. Peace. Had enough of this country?

Ever dreamt about starting your own? I planted the flag. This is mine. I own this. It's surprisingly easy. 55 gallons of water, 500 pounds of concrete. Or maybe not. No country willingly gives up their territory.

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