The Breakfast Club - Money & Wealth: Demystifying Real Estate

Episode Date: March 9, 2024

The Black Effect Presents... Money & Wealth with John Hope Bryant! In the first episode of Money and Wealth, John Hope Bryant jumps right into educating you on a topic everyone is curious about - real estate!   To learn more about John's Operation Hope initiative, visit: https://operationhope.org/how-we-help/credit-money-management/    See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

As a kid, I really do remember having these dreams and visions, but you just don't know what is going to come for you. Alicia shares her wisdom on growth, gratitude, and the power of love. I forgive myself. It's okay. Have grace with yourself. You're trying your best. And you're going to figure out the rhythm of this thing.

Alicia Keys, like you've never heard her before. Listen to On Purpose with Jay Shetty on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Hey, y'all. Niminy here. I'm the host of a brand new history podcast for kids and families called Historical Records. Executive produced by Questlove, The Story Pirates, and John Glickman,

Historical Records brings history to life through hip-hop. Flash, slam, another one gone. Bash, bam, another one gone. The crack of the bat and another one gone. The tip of the cap, there's another one gone. Each episode is about a different inspiring figure from history, like this one about Claudette Colvin, a 15-year-old girl in Alabama

who refused to give up her seat on the city bus nine whole months before Rosa Parks did the same thing. Check it. Get the kids in your life excited about history by tuning in to Historical Records. Because in order to make history, you have to make some noise. Listen to Historical Records on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Hey, what's up? This is Ramses Jha. And I go by the name Q Ward. And we'd like you to join us each week for our show, Civic Cipher.

That's right. We discuss social issues, especially those that affect black and brown people, but in a way that informs and empowers all people. We discuss everything from prejudice to politics to police violence, and we try to give you the tools to create positive change in your home, workplace, and social circle. We're going to learn how to become better allies to each other. So join us each Saturday for Civic Cipher on the iHeartRadio app,

Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Muhammad Ali, George Foreman, 1974. George Foreman was champion of the world. Ali was smart and he was handsome. The story behind The Rumble in the Jungle is like a Hollywood movie. But that is only half the story. There's also James Brown, Bill Withers, B.B. King, Miriam Akiba. All the biggest black

artists on the planet. Together in Africa. It was a big deal. Listen to Rumble, Ali, Foreman, and the Soul of 74 on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Welcome to Money and Wealth with John O'Brien,

a production of the Black Effect Podcast Network and iHeartRadio. Yo, yo, John O'Brien, and this is Money and Wealth, and this is my trending topic of the week. It's a salute to Mike Epps and his wife, Kira. They are doing it in Indianapolis. They are walking the talk of what I call the civil rights movement. I didn't say civil rights. The leaders of all of that movement are already established in history. I'm talking about making new history from civil rights in the streets to civil rights, S-I-L-V-E-R, in the suites, cutting the business deal. The new color is not black or white or red or blue, it's green. And we need some economic green in our neighborhoods, invested in the legal trade

of capitalism and free enterprise to lift us up in a way that is sustainable. And Mike Epstein just talk about it. He's doing it. He and his wife went and bought six or more homes, at least six homes with his own paycheck over a period of time. He didn't do it all at one time as he was doing comedy and doing movies and setting a little bit aside. He decided, and I think it goes back even to the 90s, to just buy a house here, to buy a house there, until he owned the block, most of the block that he grew up in. These are the same blocks, same homes, or the same block he said he was arrested a thousand times, same block where his grandmother owned a home. One of the homes he revitalized was for his grandmother, as I understand it. Same block where he's seen go

through all kinds of changes and transitions in the course of his life from doing really pretty good to doing pretty crappy. And we complain about things like gentrification. By the way, gentrification, there's nothing wrong with that. Gentrification simply means a movement to middle class values. Actually, we want that. We want homes and values to come up. We just want it to include us when it happens and not replace us when it happens. I like both of those things. I like people who do things. Mike did things, went and bought these properties, slowly invested here and there with his wife, methodical about it, quiet about it even, and then got HGTV inspired and involved in a new program I think they call Buying Back the Block. Check it out and check him out. They did it. And as you can see, there are Black people

who've benefited, white people who've benefited, Asian, Indian, everybody benefited, not just people who bought the homes and are living in the homes, people who worked on the homes, plumbers, electricians, lighting, roofing. That's what I do with my own company. I try to make sure that half of all of my vendors at Promise Homes Company, at least, are minority and women, small businesses, plumbing, heating, landscaping, rooting, roofing. This is job creation, by the way. This is wealth creation through contracts, painting. Help me out here. Did I say landscaping already? Think about all the stuff that goes in roofing into fixing and maintaining homes. And then once you do that,

as you see, as you'll see, check it out his video. Once he did that, then the city leaned in and they start upgrading the infrastructure. You start seeing parks show up in green spaces, right? You start seeing people with higher education and higher income moving back into the neighborhood. Now economic energy returns to the neighborhood. And so now nobody's getting kicked out. You've got people who live there who are middle income, working class and middle class. You have people working there on the homes in the neighborhoods who might be working class, might even be the working poor, but they're participating and benefiting as well.

Now, you've got a tax base for the city, so the city can now afford to have proper public services, garbage removal, making sure the lights, as in the street lights, are fixed to make sure that there's money for, I've already said, green space, public spaces. Frankly, the schools get inspired. You start seeing businesses move into areas like this. They look like, oh, wait, check that out. You'll start seeing coffee shops show up and little corner shops and boutiques and hair salons and barbershops. All that stuff starts to move in when poverty and problems move out. Prosperity moves in when problems move out. That's not a black situation or a white situation or a Latino situation or Asian situation. It's an aspirational

situation. And Mike and his wife have shown you how to do it right and make it tight and making smart sexy again and doing it in a way that actually enhances their economic plight, like the doing it right and increasing their economic might. And I'm not trying to be a rapper. It just so happens that, you know, sometimes when you do it right, it is cool and smooth. So tip my brother, tip my brother, killer Mike, don't get mad at me because I'm rapping a little bit and rhyming a little bit. I'll never be a challenge to your talent on rocking the mic, but don't you rock this economic pen that I've got over here. I might have something for you.

All right. Back to the story. The Epps family now have increased their net worth. These homes that they bought for next to nothing, I hope. So that's the 90s. So we're going back almost 30 years. These are accumulating over time. They hopefully bought next to nothing. I hope they did.

Now they've invested. Now HGTV hopefully has invested because it's good for the network. The equity I keep talking about in real estate investment goes to the Epps family. It also goes to anybody else who's buying a home in that neighborhood that gets a knock-on effect. Meaning, in other words, if the house next door to you gets improved, then you may want to improve your house. But certainly, it improves the value of your house. If the house next door has got $100,000 of rehabilitation and improvement going into it, then you're going to get some kind of halo effect on your house. Uh, you know, you may get a 20, $30,000 pop in value in your house because somebody put a hundred thousand dollars in the house next door and you did nothing.

If you then improve your house with some new paint and some landscaping, you may get a pop of 30 or $40,000. I'm talking about homes that are, you know, a hundred, $200,000, $300,000 in range at the moment, which sounds to me and looks to me based on what I'm seeing is going on in this neighborhood in Indianapolis that the Epps family is revitalizing. And so as it comes up, they come up. As the community does well, they do well. That's good capitalism, doing well and doing good. I keep saying that good capitalism is where I benefit and you benefit more. Bad capitalism is I benefit and you pay a price for it. This is good capitalism.

Bad capitalism is drug dealing, is rent-to-own stores, title lenders, liquor stores, pawn shops, check cashers, not all check cashers, but the predatory ones, title lending stores, and all these folks preying on our neighborhoods and low credit score neighborhoods. This guy is actually raising the credit score, raising the economic energy of this neighborhood. It'll attract investors. As I said, it'll attract positive involvement by the city. The police will be more respectful, I guarantee you. Mike's not going to have any problem in his neighborhood, I guarantee you, but people who live in this neighborhood are not going to have any problem with their taxpayers. Hello. So what do you think about this? I mean, what's your opinion on this? But I'm just

really excited about it. And he's my profile of the week of a celebrity doing it right, happens to be a black celebrity as well, who understands that he can't just cash the check, he's got to write something. You can't just cash the check. He's got to write something. You can't just make the money during the day. You got to build wealth in your sleep. You got to, you know, and real estate is the easiest way. Well, one of the easiest way to do it and providing affordable housing to people. And it's just like, plus, plus, plus everybody wins when you buy back the block. Be inspired. I am. Whether you're starting or scaling your company's security program,

demonstrating top-notch security practices and establishing trust is more important than ever. Vanta automates compliance for ISO 27001, SOC 2, GDPR, and more, saving you time and money. Thank you. That's V-A-N-T-A dot com slash special for $1,000 off. As a kid, I really do remember having these dreams and visions, but you just don't know what is going to come for you. Alicia Keys opens up about conquering doubt, learning to trust herself, and leaning into her dreams. I think a lot of times we are built to doubt the possibilities for ourselves. For self-preservation and protection, it was literally that step by step. And so I discovered that that is how we get where we're going. This increment of small, determined moments. Alicia shares her wisdom on growth, gratitude, and the power of love. I forgive myself. It's okay. Like grace. Have grace with

yourself. You're trying your best and you're going to figure out the rhythm of this thing. Alicia Keys, like you've never heard her before. Listen to On Purpose with Jay Shetty on the iHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Hey, what's up? This is Ramses Jha. And I go by the name Q Ward. And we'd like you to join us each week for our show Civic Cipher. That's right. We're going to discuss social issues, especially those that affect black and brown people, but in a way that informs and empowers all people to hopefully create better allies.

Think of it as a black show for non-black people. We discuss everything from prejudice to politics to police violence, and we try to give you the tools to create positive change in your home, workplace, and social circle. Exactly. Whether you're black, Asian, white, Latinx, indigenous, LGBTQIA+, you name it. If you stand with us, then we stand with you. Let's discuss the stories and conduct the interviews that will help us create a more empathetic, accountable, and equitable America.

You are all our brothers and sisters, and we're inviting you to join us for Civic Cipher each and every Saturday with myself, Ramses Jha, Q Ward, and some of the greatest minds in America. Listen to Civic Cipher every Saturday on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. So, y'all, this is Questlove, and I'm here to tell you about a new podcast I've been working on with the Story Pirates and John Glickman called Historical Records. It's a family-friendly podcast. Yeah, you heard that right. A podcast for all ages. One you can listen to and enjoy with your kids starting on September 27th. I'm going to toss it over to the host of Historical Records, Nimany, to tell you all about it.

Make sure you check it out. Hey, y'all. Nimany here. I'm the host of a brand new history podcast for kids and families called Historical Records. Historical Records brings history to life through hip-hop. Flash, slam, another one gone. Bash, bam, another one gone. The crack of the bat and another one gone.

The tip of the cap, there's another one gone. Each episode is about a different inspiring figure from history, like this one about Claudette Colvin, a 15-year-old girl in Alabama who refused to give up her seat on the city bus nine whole months before Rosa Parks did the same thing. Check it. And it began with me

Did you know, did you know I wouldn't give up my seat Nine months before Rosa It was Claudette Colvin Get the kids in your life excited about history by tuning in to Historical Records. Because in order to make history, you have to make some noise. Listen to Historical Records on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

Hey, this is John O'Brien. And there's a lie that's been told to working class and even middle class families, and certainly the so-called poor. Don't own a home. Don't buy a home. It's a bad investment. It's a bad bet. Enjoy your life. Don't buy a home. By the way, everybody telling you to not buy a home on TV, on the news, owns a home. Everybody telling you not to buy a home owns a home. Don't take my word for it. In this digital world we live in now, and also inner city world we live in now, because by the way, the wealthiest neighborhoods in France are places called Paris.

That's an inner city. The wealthiest places in the UK, United Kingdom, is places like London, an inner city. It goes on and goes on and goes on. Inner cities all around the world are invaluable. But we put the world, the American leaders put poor people, so-called poor people, blacks and browns in inner cities in the 20th century and moved to the suburbs only realized with traffic and congestion, they want to move back to centrally located real estate. I'll get to that in a minute, which means our real estate is actually invaluable, but we are actively giving it away. But I'm getting ahead of myself. In this digital world we live in,

you can get most information at your fingertips. So if you see somebody on television telling you that homeownership's a bad bet, use your smartphone to be smart. Use it for something other than checking out the most interesting stats on sports, which is cool, or seeing the most recent concert or music videos, which is cool. Use it to make smart sexy, to understand what somebody's telling you, whether it's a lie or not. Look up the person, look up the broadcaster, the TV personality and see if they own a home. You put in their name and put in home and see what comes up. And if somebody is a public figure, eight times out of 10, it'll tell you, yeah, this person owns a home or multiple homes. How do I know that? Because the number one business in the world

is real estate. The number one sector, the biggest business sector in the world, not technology, not healthcare, not music, not entertainment, not whatever it is you're interested in, none of that. The biggest industry, the biggest sector in the world is real estate. The number one way that millionaires become such, and I know as much because I am one, is real estate. I happen to be, in addition to being the founder of Operation Hope, the largest minority owner. I think this is still true. It was true certainly a year ago or two years ago when I sold the company. The largest minority owner of

single-family rental real estate in America, single-family homes, sorry, the largest owner of single-family rental homes in America is me. It was the Promise Homes Company. I built the company from 2017 to 2020. I sold it to 2021 for $121 million, did a $200 million credit facility financing to recapitalize the company, became a partner in the new company with my new partners. I owned the company myself. Now I own it with partners. But we owned, at one point, we own a little less than now, 700 homes in Georgia, greater Atlanta, in Florida. And I started this, I started my quest with one home, right? Actually a condo.

Then went from one condo to a condo and an investment property, and then three properties, and then five. And okay, then I, you know, decided to go into a business and then went on supercharge mode. And my goal is actually 10,000 homes now, but that's a whole other conversation for another time. That is not the strategies I'm talking to you about now. I'm just telling you, I know what I'm talking about. And at Operation Hope, we've helped, we've helped literally thousands of people become

homeowners with prime rates because we helped them get their credits grew up, their debt down, their savings up. Okay, back to the topic. Because all this just underscores that I know what I'm talking about, right? And I want you to listen. I want you to pay attention. My mother, who worked an hourly job, Juanita Smith, an hourly job at McDonald's Aircraft, bought and sold seven homes, making the equivalent of $18 an hour. And when she passed away, September 2023, God rest her soul, an amazing woman. She died with the equivalency of a roll-up of a million-dollar net worth, meaning she'd accumulated a million dollars in assets and distributed to her children and others that she

loved. But when she passed away working an hourly job because of real estate, she could put her kids into homes. She did that for my sister and my brother, helping them buy homes multiple times. And I watched her buy and sell homes. It gave her financial freedom, retire and dignity, right? And she did it as a working class woman. So because my grandmother was on the shotgun shack, my mother owned seven homes. I then owned 700 because now I knew what I could do. And I built on that success. Can I get an amen? This is what, this is the church that was happening now. And what have you done for me lately? So I know it can be done. And I, and I've done it. I'm not somebody talking about it, read about it in the book, giving you a motivational

speech. I'm telling you that I've made good moves and bad. I'm going to tell you about a couple of them in this podcast. I almost lost my rear end and would have had to file bankruptcy if the lender had not been gracious toward me when I was building a three-unit apartment building. I don't want to commend that lender. It was actually Wells Fargo. It was a banker at Wells Fargo who saved my bacon when I was building a home for my father to live in. And again, I'll get to that story in a

minute, but I came very close to losing it all. I also made it big. So I almost lost it big there, but I also made it big. That was a construction loan, big relatively speaking. When I bought a home, a condo, townhouse home, I was living in an apartment and I moved and got this home and I paid $220,000 for it in Los Angeles on La Tijera Boulevard, right at La Tijera and 405, or anybody knows Los Angeles. And then when the economy took a dive, everybody was saying, you need to sell the house. It's 2008. You need to sell the house. Get out of the house, all my poor friends. Sell, get out, get out, get out. No, no, no. Warren Buffett says, when people are greedy, be afraid. When people are afraid, be greedy. I just doubled down. I had a tenant in it. I figured I'll just hold on to it. And it went

down to hundreds of my thousand dollars. Everybody's like, get out, get out. But I had a tenant covering the rent. Okay, all good. And I was still getting tax benefits from it. I'll get to that in a minute. Also the tax benefits of ownership. I held on and somewhere around 2015, I went back to check on the property again. So this is now economic crisis 2008, 2009. Lost my shirt, supposedly. I didn't lose my shirt. I still own the property. And it had a tenant in it, in the property.

And so the rent was being covered. 2015, 2016, I decide to cash out, buy another property. Do you know I sold that property for $750,000? Hello. Bought it for 220, went down to a hundred and something. If I'd listed that bad advice from my so-called friends, if you hang around nine broke people, you'll be the 10th. Good people, I love my people, but my friends were giving me bad advice because they didn't know better, so couldn't do better. They weren't financial geniuses, and they couldn't give me financial genius advice and give me be cool advice, how to dress advice, how to hang out advice, a lot of other good advice,

maybe even how to parent advice. I'm sure they'd give me a lot of great advice, but real estate advice was not one of the ones they could give me. Investment advice was not one of the ones they could give me, and I knew better than to pay attention to what they were saying. It's an old Southern saying, in a blind town, a one-eyed man's king. If you don't know better, you cannot do better, right? And no matter how much I love you, my son or my daughter, if I don't have wisdom, all I can give you is my own ignorance. That's right. So we pass down bad habits from generation to generation. Out of love, we pass down bad habits to you. Please tell me you're hearing what I'm saying. It's so important that you

understand that eagles don't fly in packs. You've never seen a flock of eagles, right? You're going to be alone in some of these decisions. You're going to be a solo player. People should tell me, oh, come on, party with us. Come on, hang out. No, I'm good. Enjoy yourself. And I was behind the computer trying to figure out what was going on. Now I don't have to go to the club. I can own it, right? And the people who used to go to clubs and wanted me to go with them are now coming to me asking me for a job. And that's been for successive years, right? So only in the dictionary does the word success come before the word work because it's alphabetical. I'll repeat that. Only in the dictionary does the word success come before the word work because it's alphabetical.

So I'll give you one example of how I took a modest investment. I went from renting an apartment in Van Nuys, I believe it was, and buying a townhouse for a couple hundred thousand dollars, having that property go down in value, holding onto it, moved to, I think, Atlanta, rented that townhouse out, right? But kept it and then turned around and that property has literally tripled, more than tripled in value when I sold it for $750,000. And then parlaying that into a tax exchange, I think it's called 1031 tax-free exchange. I think it's what it's called. It's a tax-free exchange where you can buy one property with the proceeds from the property you just sold and you don't pay taxes on it. And I ended up leveraging that up into a multimillion dollar investment. So that little $200,000 townhouse morphed into a multimillion dollar

investment. And that's not the Promise Homes company I'm telling you about, right? Now, where else can you do that? And then the piece where I lost my shirt, I'll just tell you this, I almost lost my shirt. Then I'm going to get into the basics of why you should own a home. My dad made some financial mistakes, made some mismoves or some bad moves. A good guy, but was not financially literate. Nobody taught him how money works. So it wasn't his fault, but he didn't know better. So he couldn't do better. So I'm not blaming this on you. I'm telling you that this is in my own family. We're not ashamed of it because he just didn't know any better. And he worked his whole life working in construction, owning his own business, meeting a payroll, which is where I learned how to do it. And payroll was every race of people out of the

front door of our home. So race to me was, you know, not a negative thing. I had no problem with white people or Asians or Latinos or whatever. They all work for my dad. So the color was green, but my dad couldn't keep the money. He made a dollar, spent a dollar 50. The more money we made, the broker we got. Right. And he ended up, you know, fast forward living with this lady.

He was dating my mom and dad had divorced and she controlled his life. Like I'll say it. with this lady he was dating. My mom and dad are divorced and she controlled his life. Like I'll say it. It's like he was pimping him. Like, you know, she be my boyfriend, by the way, I'm giving you housing. Right. So he lived in a house that she controlled. She didn't live there. She controlled it and she controlled him. I was like, oh no, we're not doing this. So with my dad's permission, I bought the house from the lady, but then I realized I couldn't just subsidize this payment every month of the mortgage. So with my dad's permission, I bought the house from the lady, but then I realized I couldn't just subsidize this payment every month of the mortgage. So I learned the rules, I learned the, you know, get the memo on money. That's my, I think it's my fourth book, the memo, get that,

right? And learn the game, build, you know, knock three walls down, keep one wall up and build a three unit apartment building around the remaining wall, turn it into an income-producing property was my strategy, let my dad live in the front unit, and I'd rent out the other two. Actually, it was supposed to be a four-unit building, but my dad screwed up his zoning ordinance and I ended up having to go from four units to three. The numbers still work. He would live in the front unit for free. The other two units would pay the mortgage payment and property taxes and maintenance and little income. Not bad, right? Well, I let my dad, emotional decision, who was a construction guy. He knew what he was doing, but I let him manage not the job of construction. I let him

manage the money. And make a long story short, he ran through $650,000 of construction loan. Ouch. Did not finish the project. Ouch. I had to go back to the lender, Tom Swanson. That's the guy's name. Tom, are you listening to this? God bless you, brother. And I had to get, and luckily values at this time were going up. So I got the property reappraised and luckily it reappraised higher. So I got a refinance of the construction loan. If I couldn't do that, I would have had to file bankruptcy. Refinance of the construction loan and got just enough proceeds to finish the job, get a permanent loan, put on the property, paid off the construction loan. I also gave my dad an AmeriExpress credit card, a $6,000 limit. He ran that up to the limit.

And I mean, this is back when $6,000 might as well have been 6 million. And I mean, money really does create drama in relationships. Like the number one cause of divorce is money. Like this really created a problem with me and my dad. But he's my father, so I couldn't be disrespectful, but I'm like, he was being disrespectful to my wallet and he meant well, but just, you know, just financially illiterate. So I had to like learn to give him money, but not a credit card. Give him a gift card that had money on it, loaded, but nothing more. I had to find ways to let him live in dignity, but not to have an open credit line. So I finished that and was able to sell that property later on and clear all my debts. And his, by the

way, he died, God rest his soul, in dignity at 89 years of age in a home that he controlled. So why should you want to own a home? Because everybody else who's got wealth does. Let's start there. Because it's the number one way you build wealth in America, right? Why should you want to own a home? Because when you buy a home, you get the benefit of depreciation, the tax benefit. The tax system was created to benefit homeowners. You get the benefit of depreciation, tax benefits. You get the benefit of appreciation, the increase in value of that home. I'm going to break this stuff down. I'll talk to you in plain English. If you have a 30 year mortgage, on average,

15, certainly 20 years of that mortgage, you write off as mortgage interest. 20 of a 30-year mortgage is mortgage interest. Well, you write that off against your taxes, against your income. So you're going to get a lot of that money back as a tax refund. You can't get that back if you're renting. If you're renting from me, and I'd love you to be a renter for me, right? But at some point I want you to leave. I want you to go from rent to own. But are you renting from me or you're renting from someplace you can't afford, a neighborhood that don't want you, with money you don't have to impress people you don't know about stuff that don't matter, right? Real talk. So you're renting in the skyscraper somewhere with a doorman, right? Yeah, but you don't have a doorman. You also have a window taker because

you're opening that window and somebody's taking your money as you throw that money for rent out the window every month. By the way, I was a renter. There's a time to be a renter. You just shouldn't be a renter for your entire life, in my opinion. So if you consider yourself an LLC, a limited liability corporation, consider yourself a business, right? Where are your assets? Your assets cannot be on your ASS. You got to own something and you build wealth in your sleep. You make money during the day, you build wealth in your sleep. It's called appreciation compounding, right? Stocks, home ownership, bonds, businesses, real estate, even education, higher education compounds. That's an investment. You know, businesses, real estate, even education, higher education, compounds. That's an investment. Only in real estate are you going to get the sort of secured opportunities. Real estate has never

gone down in value in the history of the modern world in America. Now, somebody's going to say, now we got John, this is wrong. There was a crisis in 2008. There was a crisis in whenever. No, there's a crisis, right? In real estate, it goes up. There's a crisis. It dips down as it did in my situation. And then when it corrects, it always corrects above the line, which means that it goes back up above the dip and typically breaches the value that you bought it for if you hold onto it long enough because there just aren't growing in any more land. It's finite and it is secured investment. And again, for all the reasons I just mentioned to you, the tax system is designed to benefit real estate owners, specifically home ownership. Now, I'm going to tell you in short order why

people benefit from you not understanding this game. And this is not a racial comment I'm making. I'm just saying that some people understood this game and other people did not. After the Civil War, I'm going to make this really quick. After the Civil War, you had 40 acres and a mule. And I'll do this in a separate podcast around the Freedmen's Bank. It was Field Action 15 in Savannah, Georgia, 24 former slave ministers asked by Secretary of War Stanton, General Sherman, what do you want after slavery? What do you want? Do you want an apology? Do you want welfare? No, no, no, no. We want land. We want to do for ourselves. So they ultimately got 40 acres for each family, a couple hundred bucks for seeds and things like seed corn for the land to grow

and to nurture. And they worked that land so hard, they were ultimately given a mule, like a tractor, because they were so industrious. When Lincoln was assassinated a year later, that rule was reversed and the former slave-owning landowners ended up getting that land back plus some money. Now, that's not what this podcast is about. That's not what this episode is about. But the reason I'm telling you that story is some people think that 4 million slaves got 40 acres of mule. No, no, no, no. 18,000 families split up 400,000 acres, and that land was reversed after they got it.

And it wasn't even good land. It was along the ocean around North Carolina, South Carolina. It was a coastal property. It was just hard to grow agriculture on, but we took it and ran and worked it anyway because we've been doing so much with so little for so long. We can almost do anything with nothing, meaning African-Americans were very industrious, but they took that back. Why am I telling that story?

Because soon after that, a couple of years after that, there was a Homestead Act, about 270 million acres, 10% of all land in America given to anybody, read mostly white, 99 point something percent of all the recipients of the Homestead Act were white settlers that were going West would get, I think it was 660 acres as I'm right, if I'm correct. You had to work the land. The government created institutions of agriculture. They created basically mentors, business mentors for agriculture in these counties that would help new farmers to understand how to own and grow the land. But you got this land for free. And 270 million acres and 1.5 million families took the 270 million acres. And I think it was 6,000 families, if I got that number right, were black.

Of 1.5 million total families that got a plot of land, which is upwards of 100 million beneficiary families today. It's a whole other conversation. But that land represents 10% of all land in America. That was the Homestead Act. Okay. Now you fast forward to the early 20th century, and you had mortgages from the government, part of the New Deal, and the FHA, I think it's Federal Housing Authority, is what it's called. I'm doing this without notes. And this is all memory and my knowledge. And the FHA, unlike the rumor that banks created redlining, the federal government created redlining

because the federal government said they would insure mortgages in neighborhoods. But if a neighborhood was viewed as risky or dangerous, they would put, well, there were green neighborhoods. Guess where those were? There were yellow markings. Those were sketchy, but debatable. And then there were red. Oh, no, that's a no-go zone. And the government refused to finance, I'm sorry, to guarantee a mortgage in those neighborhoods. Well, guess where the banks refused to make mortgages? It wasn't necessarily racial, but if you're in a red zone and the government's not going to guarantee a mortgage, then the bank's not going to lend on a home in that area on a mortgage. They're going to go to where it's safe because money's a coward. Money wants to be safe.

I understand that. So money would go to what would, in this case, be white neighborhoods, and they'd make the mortgages there. So where do you think the values went up? The values went up in the white or the green neighborhoods, which happened to be mostly, in this example, white homeowners. And it went down, it was depressed in black neighborhoods, right? And then you had covenants, restrictive covenants on homes that blacks could not buy in these green neighborhoods is a whole nother game. And then you come up through World War II and the GI Bill, 99% of all the GI Bill recipients were non-black, white. This is where the middle class was created. Again, this is not a white versus black thing. This is a green thing. I'm just giving you a history lesson of why black people have a net worth that is, you know, a mere fraction of white net worth.

Because, you know, in one of these areas of home ownership, we have not either taken advantage of it or mostly it's been denied. It was right now we're not taking advantage of it. 41, 43% of all home ownership is black compared to 75% of our mainstream counterparts. But in history, right, you know, civil rights movement in before, it was restricted from us. It was kept from us. But I'm demystifying the game. I'm telling you now how this game is played. And if you have good credit, the bank will just say yes, right? So the color's green. The playing field is more level today than it has ever been. My mother's story is an example of what I'm telling you, right? My story is an example of what I'm telling you, right? My story is an example of what I'm telling

you, right? And by the way, there's more poor white people than poor anybody else. And they suffer from the same problem because they never got the memo on money. That's another video for another podcast for another time. I don't want anybody here thinking that this is John making a case against anybody. I'm making a case for you. I'm trying to non-emotionally explain to you how bad things can happen to good people. So you had this, the government for the GI Bill would give you a mortgage and an education, sponsor you in the college and get you through college with a marketable skill and give you a mortgage to become a homeowner. And that's where, you know, broadly defined, we can see the white middle class really emerged from. And then black middle class came from, you know, in large part,

the civil rights movement, getting people educated and all that stuff. But we learned to cash a check, not write it. I'm going to teach you how to cash a sustainable check, in other words, upgrade your skills, but also learn how to teach you how to do what I do, which is to write the check. I'm an employer. I have hundreds of employees, 400 employees just in my companies, my direct companies and organizations, payroll. I'm not afraid to say it, a million dollars every couple of weeks. I've been doing this for 30 years. I know what I'm talking about. I made good choices and bad. And I'm telling you that one of the choices you need to make, if you're listening to this, is to own a home. Now, somebody's going to say here, John don't know what he's talking about. I don't want to

own a home. I hear this all the time. I don't want to own a home. The bank owns a home. This is a game. This is a scam. I don't own a home. The bank owns a home. If you don't pay, yeah, I said it. If you don't pay the mortgage, yes, the bank owns a home. As I said in a session with my brother, T.I., at our whole global forum, if I lend you money to buy a home and you don't pay me, I'm going to own your home, right? It's not personal, right? This is business. The color's not black or white or red or blue as in race or politics, the color's green as in US currency, at least in America, the color is green, it's economics, right? And so as long as you pay that mortgage, right? And before interest rates went up,

it was cheaper to own a home than it was to rent. Now, you got to be more careful and thoughtful about it, but I can still guarantee you that over the long term, it's always cheaper to own. Well, sorry, it's always a better investment to own. It may not be cheaper on cash basis in the short term, but your rental property is not your rental property and it's not going to appreciate in your pocket, right? So you're just living in the moment. I'm telling you, here's your plan. If you're a working class person, if you're a middle class family and you're listening to this podcast, here's your business plan. I want you to buy a home

and I want you to buy the best house on the worst block, right? So if you're going to a middle class neighborhood, buy the worst house on the best block and rehab it and live in it. Or if you're going, uh, to a middle-class neighborhood by the worst house and the best block in rehab it and live in it, or if you're in the hood, right. You want to find a house on that block and rehab it and live in it, but preferably the best house. I'll get back to that, that strategy one second, but by the best house, right. That you can, that you can afford. So you don't have any deferred maintenance, but rehab it and live in it. Or

sorry, upgrade it. Make that as part of the acquisition that you build enough in for painting and anything that needs to be, get an inspection on the house. Get pre-approved. Operational can help you do that for free. If we get your credit score up above 700, 750 for sure, used to be just 700, but now that interest rates have changed, it might be a little bit above 700. We'll get you a prime mortgage, right? We'll get you a mortgage like every other successful aspiring person in America, right? Not when these homeboys shopping at word mortgages, a good one, right? Not one that explodes. On car loans, we used to say, no, that's not a Mercedes in the hood. That's a Mercedes payments. That's what I'm going to do a whole thing on auto loans and how that game really,

how car dealerships and the car business really works. I'm going to unpack that whole, I'm going to do a masterclass unpacking that whole situation. So we can get you into a home, right? And that would include a budget you're going to have for maintenance and anything to fix up. Then I want you to take over time the equity from that house that you build up and over time have a plan over five years, 10 years max, pay patient, buy a home in the hood using equity from your home if you can, or if you have to, if you don't have other sources, as your home appreciates, and buy a modest home in the inner city. Rehab it and rent it. Do that twice. Now you have three homes, one you're living in and two that you've bought as rentals, and you've now created generational wealth for a lifetime.

So within 30 minutes, we've given you a history lesson. We've given you a context lesson. We've unpacked the mystery of some finance, the mystery of why good things happen sometimes to bad people and how bad things can happen to good people. We've talked about the easy ways that you can figure out immediately why you should own a home and why you shouldn't rent for any longer than you have to, which is appreciation, which goes in your pocket, depreciation, which helps you from a tax perspective and writing off mortgage payments against your income, which means at the end of the year, you have a good tax pro or even a decent one. You'll get a refund, a tax refund from some of the mortgage proceeds that you put into

your own home. And as that home compounds and increases in value, guess who benefits? You. Now, I'm going to tell you a little bit of private news, just to tell you how powerful real estate is. Less than two years ago, we bought a home in another country, Turks and Caicos. And I'm not going to give you exact numbers, but respectable value, right? Bought it. And less than two years later, the realtor calls me and says, I've got an opportunity to sell that house for you. Would you like to sell it? I said, just tell me the

number. Well, the number was 75% more than what I paid for it in 18 months, less than two years. I could have almost doubled value, doubled my value in less than two years on a secured real estate investment in another country. What business, right? Legal. Can you do that in? Now, I didn't buy it for that purpose. I didn't buy it for that reason. I bought it because it was a nice place for me and my family to get away to, right? And the way I structured it, it pays for itself. That's a whole nother conversation I'll make it into. By the way, you can put comments of what topics you want me to cover, by the way. But this example is like win, win, win, right? It pays for itself and it went up in value when I wasn't sleeping. It made me look like a genius. My net worth went up and I didn't

do anything but own it because there's just not enough properties like the one I bought in the area and other people want the property and there's nothing else available for sale and I'm not selling. I'll own that property as long as I can. I like to buy property and hold on to it. Some people need to, this whole buy and flip thing, that's just not for me. I think you should buy properties, cash flow them so they take care of themselves and hold on to them because they will go up in value. If you have to sell, if there's some strategic reason in selling, like the 1031 tax-free exchange I did, that I told you about early in this podcast, then fine. But in general, you want to accumulate wealth.

And again, 41 to 43% of black folks own a home today compared to 75% of our white counterparts. There's all kinds of obstacles in your way in generations before us, but those obstacles don't exist today. You can do this. Half of black folks, not poor people, half of black folks today have a credit score below 620. Half. That means when you wake up in the morning, you're locked out of the free enterprise system.

Operation Hope can help you. Download the Hope in Hand app or go to operationhope.org or call 888-388-HOPE and get a Hope Financial Coach and they will help you raise your credit score on average 54 points in six months, over 100 points in less than 24 months. They'll help you get your debt down on average, $3,800 for somebody making $50,000 a year and your savings up more than $2,000 for that same person. And we can get you bank qualified, right? Get you in the game so that you can become a homeowner or through 1 Million Black Business Initiative, 1MBB, become a small

business owner or whatever it is you want to do, live your dreams, but give you optionality in life. Freedom is self-determination, but you cannot self-determine yourself unless you understand the rules of the game and understand that financial literacy is a civil rights issue of this generation. If you don't know better, you cannot do better. You can go to church every Sunday, be the nicest person in the world. But if you don't understand what we've been talking about here, you can't win in this game. And we're going to help you master it step by step. And real talk, I'm not going to use 20 words when two will do. I'm going to lay this thing out for you. I'm going to use my life as a personal testimony. I'm going to take questions and answer questions and talk about what's going on in the moment, but also talk about things that I call are evergreen, that just is stuff that will help you for the rest of your life. This is a radical movement of common sense, right? There's nothing I've said here today that can be reasonably debated. I mean, this is just basic, basic stuff. It's just that people have kept the knowledge from you and me. And then people say, oh, well, you know, people destroyed black wealth in 2008, 2009.

Well, black wealth was destroyed in part because we bought a home like you, I don't know what you want to buy. I mean, I don't buy even a car. I don't buy anything this way. But sometimes we ask the wrong question, like what's the payment when there's an interest rate attached? We asked on a six-figure property, $100,000, $200,000, $300,000, $400,000, what's the payment when there's an interest rate attached. We asked on a six-figure property, $100,000, $200,000, $300,000, $400,000, what's the payment on that going to be?

Without understanding that people were giving you these crappy loans, these perfect eyesight loans, 20 points, 20% interest, 20-20 loans. When you got the loan, you went blind. 20 points is like 20 cents on a dollar in a fee going to the mortgage broker typically and 20% interest or just what's called a negative amortization loan, which means every, yeah, your payment's low, but every time you make a payment, you owe more on the loan the next month. I'm sorry. Yeah. You owe more money on the loan balance the next month. So basically it's negative amortization. It's going up in debt, even though your payment is what you want. There was adjustable rate mortgages. You really don't want an adjustable rate mortgage if you can avoid it at all on a

30-year home because as rates go up, your payment can explode. Imagine if you had an adjustable rate mortgage in the current environment in 2023 going into 2024, your payment might've doubled or tripled. You want a fixed rate mortgage. We do that by getting you good credit so that you can negotiate from a place of strength. There's a lot of tricks in this game. And I know most of them. If I don't know them, my team does. And we're going to teach them to you so that you can master this game at scale in your life and become the leader of your life. I didn't cover everything, but hopefully I covered enough to moisten your taste for aspirational success and civil rights, from

civil rights in the streets to civil rights in the suites at scale. Okay, go to Operation Hope today, take back your life and map out how you're going to become a homeowner. So you can send your kids to college, start a business with the equity, buy other homes with equity, go on vacations, plan your retirement, whatever you want to do. It's possible, as my mother did, to live in dignity, you know, mellow years of your life because you understood that when you work, you're just living for the day. Like you're literally just making money for the day, but you build wealth in your sleep. And one of the ways, one of the easiest ways to do that, that's available to most people is home ownership. Small business is not for most people, but home ownership, I believe, is. And anybody telling you

who's successful that you shouldn't own a home, I don't know why they're telling you that other than they want more for themselves. They're just being provocative because they own a home nine times out of 10. I mean, it's just crazy. As a kid, I really do remember having these dreams and visions, but you just don't know what is going to come for you. Alicia Keys opens up about conquering doubt, learning to trust herself and leaning into her dreams. I think a lot of times we are built to doubt the possibilities for ourselves. For self-preservation and protection, it was literally that step by step. And so I discovered that that is how we get where we're going. This increment of small, determined moments.

Alicia shares her wisdom on growth, gratitude, and the power of love. I forgive myself. It's okay. Like grace. Have grace with yourself. You're trying your best. And you're going to figure out the rhythm of this thing. Alicia Keys, like you've never heard her before.

Listen to On Purpose with Jay Shetty on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Hey, what's up? This is Ramses Jha. And I go by the name Q Ward. And we'd like you to join us each week for our show Civic Cipher. That's right. We're going to discuss social issues, especially those that affect black and brown people,

but in a way that informs and empowers all people to hopefully create better allies. Think of it as a black show for non-black people. We discuss everything from prejudice to politics to police violence,

and we try to give you the tools to create positive change in your home, workplace, and social circle. Exactly. Whether you're black, Asian, white, Latinx, Indigenous, LGBTQIA+, you name it. If you stand with us, then we stand with you. Let's discuss the stories and conduct

the interviews that will help us create a more empathetic, accountable, and equitable America. You are all our brothers and sisters, and we're inviting you to join us for Civic Cipher each and every Saturday with myself, Ramses Jha, Q Ward, and some of the greatest minds in America. Listen to Civic Cipher every Saturday on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. What's up, y'all? This is Questlove, and I'm here to tell you about a new podcast I've been working on with the Story Pirates and John Glickman called Historical Records.

It's a family-friendly podcast. Yeah, you heard that right. A podcast for all ages. One you can listen to and enjoy with your kids starting on September 27th. I'm going to toss it over to the host of Historical Records, Nimany, to tell you all about it. Make sure you check it out. Hey, y'all. Nimany here.

I'm the host of a brand new history podcast for kids and families called Historical Records. Historical Records brings history to life through hip hop. Each episode is about a different, inspiring figure from history. Like this one about Claudette Colvin, a 15-year-old girl in Alabama who refused to give up her seat on the city bus nine whole months before Rosa Parks did the same thing. Check it. Did you know, did you know, I wouldn't give up my seat. Nine months before Rosa, it was called a moment. Get the kids in your life excited about history by tuning in to Historical Records.

Because in order to make history, you have to make some noise. Listen to Historical Records on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. In the heart of Zaire, Africa. Three days of music and then the boxing event. What was going on in the world at the time made this fight as important that anything else is going on on the planet. My grandfather laid on the ropes and let George Foreman basically just punch himself out. Welcome to Rumble, the story of a world in transformation. The 60s and prior to that, you couldn't call a person black. And how we arrived at this peak moment. I don't have to be what you want me to be.

We all came from the continent of Africa. Listen to Rumble, Ali, Foreman, and the Soul of 74 on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Bringing real empowerment right to your front doorstep, in this case, right to your microphone, to your headphone, to your video reception on your mobile device or whatever you happen to be watching or listening to. For this podcast, we have empowerment right from the streets to the suites and back. We've got a fan question we're going to answer today. Her name is Sasha. This question comes from Sasha Kingskid. She's on Instagram. She asked, what's the best way to start investing in real estate? It's a good question. And my answer is keep it simple. Keep it simple and keep it modest. Don't be dramatic. This is no time to get fancy, right? I want you to ask a whole lot of questions. I asked

Quincy Jones once, man, how'd you get so smart? He said, John, I'm just nosy as hell. I want to know everything about everything. Well, that's how I want you to smart? He said, John, I'm just nosy as hell. I want to know everything about everything. Well, that's how I want you to be about real estate. I want you to know everything about everything. Ambassador Andrew Young, my mentor, my hero, my man, the right arm to Dr. Martin Luther King Jr., one of the central leaders of the civil rights movement says that men and women fail for three reasons, arrogance, pride, and greed. Hello. I don't want you prideful. I don't want you arrogant. I certainly don't want you greedy because you'll get ahead of your skis. You'll start doing crazy stuff. And I'll get to that in a minute, maybe.

I want to keep this simple and answer a question first. But I want you to just be humble, right? Ask a whole bunch of questions. Go to Operation Hope. Talk to one of my Hope Financial coaches. Just ask a whole bunch of, you know, there's no silly question. There's no stupid question because no one taught you this stuff. No one gave you a lesson in financial literacy or how capitalism and free enterprise works. It's what you don't know that you don't know that's killing you, but you think you know. Here's what I want you to not do. I don't want you to have to listen to anybody who's trying to separate you from your wallet.

Don't invest, if you want to call it that, in fractional real estate. That's not the way to start. Don't invest in, what are these things? I mean, I did these timeshares. I'm not hating on timeshares. I actually am. I own one. I've been trying to get rid of this thing for probably 10 years.

I've owned it for 25 years. It's just drained me. Basically, I've rented a piece of somebody else's. Well, I own a piece of the real estate, because I don't own the whole real estate. I don't owe it fee simple, as we call it. I own a fraction of it that I, yes, I can feel pride that I have a piece of the real estate, but I, because I don't own the whole real estate. I don't owe it fee simple as we call it. I own a fraction of it that I, yes, I can feel pride that I have a piece of real estate and it's a good location. It's in Newport beach along the ocean, but I have to, I can't just go sell it.

I got to negotiate with, in alignment with all the other fractional owners and the master controller of that, which is a company I won't name. And I got to pay, if I don't pay the maintenance fee every year, they can take the property from me. It just gets ridiculous. So you don't have to do something complicated like that. You don't even need to go buy a big home. You can buy a condo, a townhouse. Start modestly, right? When I got to Atlanta, you could buy a rundown piece of property for $5,000, $10,000, $15,000. There are small towns maybe where you live. You want to buy something close to where you can get to, drive back and forth there every day if you need to. So you don't want to do

something more than a couple hours from where you are. I'd say more than an hour from where you are. And somebody who can maybe help oversee the property with you if you're doing this with somebody else, doing it with a partner or family or whatever, right? But you want to do it modest. You want to keep it simple. Clearly, buying your own home is smart. But if you do that, there's nothing wrong with a starter home. Don't go trying to buy a mini mansion if you work for the postal service. Look, my mother worked at Madonna Liz Aircraft. And when she got laid off there, she was a janitor part-time at my school. I'm not hating on any kind of job occupation. She was a security guard. I'm saying, if you're a security guard, if you're a janitor, if you're a postal worker, if you,

whatever, some cool, really important, but modest employment situation. Don't go trying to buy a half million, $750,000, million dollar property. That's crazy, right? And don't listen to anybody trying to sell it to you, right? You want to buy something that doesn't stress you out, that you can handle, right? Basically, you want to buy something that would equate to what you pay for rent on a monthly basis. And you want to have, you know, save up and have a little reserve on the side. Now, maybe you don't have a big down payment. That's okay. Go to my coaches. If you never heard of the earned income tax credit and you make less than $60,000 a year, congratulations. I've also just told you that you've got some money coming to you. That's right. EITC. If you make less than

$60,000 a year, and if you have three children, check this out, you make $35,000 a year. You got three kids. The government owes you 6,000. I think that's the number, about $6,000, $6,500 in a cash tax refund. If you never heard of EITC, it's retroactive for three years. Okay. That's now, help me with the math. that's $18,000, almost $20,000. There's your down payment for your home, your first starter home you want to buy. You need 10% or 5% down payment. Now you have a down payment, plus you have a reserve for maintenance and anything that goes bump in the night, upkeep for the house, whatever, right? Because you want to have a little account set up, set aside for, you know, the pipe burst or whatever, you know, and my team can also like help you put, you know, a proper budget in place and

get your credit score up. So you get, you know, a great mortgage. So you want to get pre-qualified with a lender and you want to make sure it's not a hard money lender, not boo-boo and pooky in them. You want to, you want to get a proper, you know, this is a, do I get married? You get married to this property. It's going to be a 30 year mortgage commitment and you want to make sure it's a good mortgage, right? You want to be cool with it as it's cool with you. And you want fixed rate, in my opinion. And if you have a 700 credit score or better, you're going to get a good rate and you're

going to lock that in through my people or whoever you work with. My people work for free, right? And then you take that commitment that you maybe get approved for $150,000, $250,000, $300,000, whatever, you know, $40,000 you get approved for. I don't think your starter house should be any more than that. Hello. And starter house or first piece of real estate is an investment property. And then go, you know, with confidence, get a broker to

represent you. They know more about the area and all that than you do. And take your time and wait for something to inspire you. Again, you got to decide whether you want to invest in your own starter home yourself or whether you want to invest in an investment property like a raggedy home in the hood that you buy, you rehab, and you rent. Or maybe it's a duplex, or maybe it's a triplex, or I wouldn't suggest a multifamily as your first investment. So keep it simple and be humble and and ask a lot of questions and take your time. There's always a chance to do it again, but it's very easy to get married, very hard to get divorced. And the same thing applies to real estate. It's very easy to get into something bad and very hard to get out of it once you're already committed to it. So again, keep it simple, keep it humble, keep it modest, and keep it moving. And thank you very

much to this wonderful question from Sasha. I look forward to seeing you at the finish line, Sasha. With questions like this, no doubt you're going to be successful. All right. Love and light. I'm out. John O'Brien, let me know what you think. Peace and light. I love you, by the way. Money and Wealth with John O'Brien is a production of the Black Effect Podcast Network. For more podcasts from the Black Effect Podcast Network, visit the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen to your favorite shows. Thank you. As a kid, I really do remember having these dreams and visions, but you just don't know what is going to come for you. Alicia shares her wisdom on growth, gratitude, and the power of love. I forgive myself. It's okay.

Have grace with yourself. You're trying your best. And you're going to figure out the rhythm of this thing. Alicia Keys, like you've never heard her before. Listen to On Purpose with Jay Shetty on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Hey, y'all. Niminy here.

I'm the host of a brand new history podcast for kids and families called Historical Records. Executive produced by Questlove, The Story Pirates, and John Glickman, Historical Records brings history to life through hip-hop. Flash, slam, another one gone. Bash, bam, another one gone. The crack of the bat and another one gone. brings history to life through hip-hop. Each episode is about a different inspiring figure from history. Like this one about Claudette Colvin, a 15-year-old girl in Alabama who refused to give up her seat on the

city bus nine whole months before Rosa Parks did the same thing. Check it. And it began with me. Did you know, did you know? I wouldn't give up my seat. Nine months before Rosa, it was called a moment. Get the kids in your life excited about history by tuning in to Historical Records.

Because in order to make history, you have to make some noise. Listen to Historical Records on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Hey, what's up? This is Ramses Jha. And I go by the name Q Ward. And we'd like you to join us each week for our show, Civic Cipher. That's right. We discuss social issues, especially those that affect black and brown people, but in a way that informs and empowers all people. We discuss everything from prejudice to politics

to police violence, and we try to give you the tools to create positive change in your home, workplace, and social circle. We're going to learn how to become better allies to each other. So join us each Saturday for CivicCypher on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Muhammad Ali, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

Muhammad Ali, George Foreman, 1974. George Foreman was champion of the world. Ali was smart and he was handsome. The story behind the Rumble in the Jungle is like a Hollywood movie. But that is only half the story. There's also James Brown, Bill Withers, B.B. King, Miriam Akiba. All the biggest black artists on the planet. Together in Africa. It was a big deal.

Listen to Rumble, Ali, Foreman, and The Soul of 74 on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.