The Breakfast Club - Mysonne, A.T. Mitchell & Angelo Pinto Talk Gun Violence, Lyrics In Court, Community Unity + More

Episode Date: September 20, 2022

Mysonne, A.T. Mitchell & Angelo Pinto Talk Gun Violence, Lyrics In Court, Community Unity + MoreSee omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

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And I go by the name Q Ward. And we'd like you to join us each week for our show, Civic Cipher. That's right. We discuss social issues, especially those that affect black and brown people, but in a way that informs and empowers all people. We discuss everything from prejudice

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and I'm a scientist who studies human behavior. Many of us have experienced a moment in our lives that changes everything, that instantly divides our life into a before and an after. On my podcast, A Slight Change of Plans, I talk to people about navigating these moments. Their stories are full of candor and hard-won wisdom. And you'll hear from scientists who teach us how we can be more resilient in the face of change. Listen on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Morning, everybody.

It's DJ Envy, Angela Yee, Charlamagne Tha God. We are The Breakfast Club. We got a special guest in the building. That's right. I know he's back. He was here, what, two weeks ago? Yeah.

We got a brother, my son. Welcome, my son. What's happening, King? We said we were going to bring you back, too. You did say that? Yes, we did. Because we wanted to talk about all the violence that was happening, you know,

in our communities and, you know, in the industry. And sadly, it's only gotten worse since then with the passing of PNB Rock. Yeah, it's crazy, man. I brought today my brothers, the official gun czar of New York, Brother A.T. Mitchell. What's up? He's been appointed by the mayor to pretty much focus on gun violence in New York City. So he's the man, the top man in that regard. And this is also co-founder of Until Freedom, my brother Angelo Pinto, attorney Angelo Pinto.

So where do we start? I guess, you know, well, the first reason why we wanted to bring you up, because everybody was talking about lyrics, right? And rappers were talking about lyrics and DAs using their lyrics against them in court. So I wanted to talk about that first. So what are your thoughts on that, especially you're from Harlem, you're a rapper. From the Bronx. From the Bronx, man.

Jesus Christ. Don't start no trouble. My bad. From the Bronx. Of course, you're a rapper. You were signed with Violator, signed so many times. You had records, and you got arrested. But what are your thoughts on

them using lyrics against you? Or any rapper? I mean, we know that it happens, right? And you're engaged in a certain lifestyle, you're in the streets, you're actively committing crimes, and then you're talking about them, then you're telling on yourself. I mean, that's

just common sense. I think anybody... I don't see it like that, though. I'm saying, see, the difference is if you're just entertaining your rapper and you're rapping about what you've seen, and a lot of these rappers ain't living their life and they're just making stuff up. So those

situations don't... They don't fit into what we're talking about here. We're talking about when you're actively involved in the streets. You're actively involved in crime. There are videos with you doing things. You running around with people. They have enough to put your lyrics to say, hey, look, this is him right here doing this,

and this is him saying he did that. If you're just rapping about something that you didn't do, there's no trail. There's nothing for them to follow. So they can't just use your lyrics as evidence in chief. Yeah, it's not like they're listening to rappers and saying, oh, he's rapping about killing somebody.

Let's go lock him up. That's just another piece of evidence that they're collecting. Evidence in chief. That's the key to it. It can't be evidence in chief. If it supports what they already know and they have people to cooperate

and all those things, then you've got to be be smarter than that but let me ask you a question now now how would the da know the difference right now i'm listening to uh some of the stuff that's going on with young thug's case right now the attorney was like yeah he said f the judge your honor like he was talking to the judge of course he wasn't talking about that judge but that attorney made it seem like that that case is something different different. But then I think Charlamagne. But that's not a crime. That's not a crime. You understand what I'm saying?

So what that does is what I'm trying to say is everything that you say out your mouth is going to be held against you. If before, if I say, yo, my wife get out of line, I'm going to smack her in the mouth. And then you smack your wife in the mouth. She goes and says domestic violence and then they pull it up. You made a conscious, these are things that you already said that you're willing to do. So you're allowing them to use things against you that come out your own mouth. We have to be a lot more mindful. In the days, like, I got locked up for crimes, and they try to utilize stuff in my trial, too.

So I'm aware of these things. And I think as artists, for 20-plus years watching artists get have these lyrics used against them all the time especially when they're committing the acts and they're able to to show the mind state that you're willing to do certain things if you're not making conscious decision as you know what some shit i'm just not going to talk about you know what i'm saying i understand it's certain things i've even i've engaged in certain things i know people engage in certain things I'm around certain things and I understand that what I say Can and will be used against me in a court of law like they say all the time and also these guys are being very Specific like they're naming actual names

actual crimes locations dates What do you expect? Only hear from the attorney. I mean I think to mice's point anything you say can and will be used against you in a court of law and you know the hip-hop police have existed for a long time so in any scenario people build cases so they're probably following you for an extended period of time and it seems like this is a pattern that departments are now practicing so artists should say hold on wait let me protect myself We were talking about it earlier, even in the context of the violence, right? Whether or not you think violence in

lyrics actually leads to violence in the streets, one of the biggest targets are rappers of the violence we see in our communities. So at some point as an artist, you would think you would want to protect yourself, right? From the violence that could potentially happen because people are listening to your lyrics. So to Mice's point, it's like at some point, protect yourself, right? From the violence that could potentially happen because people are listening to your lyrics. So to Mice's point, it's like at some point, protect yourself. Don't say this in lyrics and don't have this particular content that could

potentially create an atmosphere in your environment that you fall victim to. Why would you continue to do that? Because in essence, you're acting against your own best interest. Let's stay here for a minute. So what are your thoughts on people trying to ban that and to stop

the government from using their lyrics because like I said some people are telling it all themselves. So what are your thoughts on them actually doing it? You mean like the legislation that they're trying to pass that says you can no longer use these lyrics against folks? I'm not gonna lie i'm

torn in that scenario right i think that to my point if you're telling on yourself right unless you use a disclaimer and say everything i'm saying here is entertainment there's nothing here i'm saying that is real then there in a lot of cases even like if you have a gun on you, there's a doctrine where they say if it's in plain sight, right? I don't have the ability to search your vehicle except when a gun is in plain sight or something illegal is in plain sight, then I have the ability to search your car. So if you're not just plain sight, your language is saying that you're doing something, then I have to say maybe they should be able to use it.

And then my other thought... Not even doing did. Right. And then the question is, why would you not want them to use this if somebody's saying this? I think for me...

You know what I'm saying? It's strange. What it comes down for me is I come from the streets. Like, if you a street dude, we knew you don't put stuff on record. That's a fact, right?

We know we're not talking about crime. We didn't even want to do interviews. Most street dudes that we knew, you very seldomly seen them on camera. They didn't talk a lot because they still to this day, the OGs, that ain't even in the street no more. They be like, I ain't trying to do no interview. I don't want to talk about none of that.

Right. Like, I don't, like, they don't live that life. So I don't know what made this era think that you could commit crime in plain sight and be free? And I've been saying that. I don't understand what is the mind state. Like when we talk about the PNB rock situation, right, it has to be levels of mental health, right? To say that you're going to walk in raw day and just in the middle of nowhere

shoot and kill somebody for a chain, you can't even be thinking because what are you going to do with that chain? Because what are you going to do with that chain? How far are you going to get with that chain? We live in police states now. Everybody got a camera. Everybody got a phone. There's cameras all over. They can pretty much track you everywhere you go.

I tell people this every day. I'm like, yo, you don't realize that every crime is on camera somewhere? Somebody got a phone camera. There's cameras connected to the store. They can literally trail you to where you go. So the mind state that you took a chance, what do you think? You pretty much gave up your whole life for a change. But the thing that you're saying, Mice, the idea that we know, anyone who knows, knows,

if you're doing crime, you don't say you're doing crime. People, that's a basic rule. So then the question becomes, why would people actively compromise themselves like that and from my perspective is because someone else is making you do that there's something else that's making you do something you're going against a basic rule and that don't make sense i think mike said something earlier and it's something that i've been saying um so many people was fronting for so long especially in rap music and and being rewarded for it. So if you're pretending to be the biggest super thug criminal in the world on these records, if I'm a dude that's really doing it in the street, I'm like, well, I want to get paid, too, because I'm really living this life.

So I think that's where people started. That's when it started. The line started getting blurred between the streets and rap music. But even in that, you still got to work smarter and not harder, right? And I think that goes back to the personal responsibility of the individual and his or her camp. I don't usually look at the artists because they're artists like that. But I do blame the people who they surround themselves with. Somebody has to be in the camp smart enough to be able or bold enough to say that we're not doing this. You're not saying that.

The problem is a lot of these artists surround themselves like yes man right they get rid of the people who say yo we shouldn't be doing that yo that doesn't make sense because everybody is perpetuating and making you feel like you're the man because they need something from you that one or two people a lot of them have to get rid of and come back because they have to make mistakes like you watch these when we all came into game, all of us came into the game with posses. It was 100 of us. Yes, sir. Everybody had 100 dudes.

I was walking the club with 100 dudes, and it would be a dude that barely even knew me would get us into a fight and get me banned from a club. Then I started realizing, like, why am I bringing all these people? I've got to pay for y'all. I've got to be responsible for you. I've got to do this. And then when it all goes wrong it's on me

and those circles start to get smaller and smaller and then you go back to the original people who try to tell you you didn't need those people from the beginning

so it's a real process and I think it's harder now because the violence is way more incentivized like if you look at the artists that are being signed right now

every one of them has real beef the songs they talk them has real beef. The songs they talk about is real beef. That's right. It's real things that people know is going on the streets. So they're being rewarded for having real beef. So when they're getting killed or they're getting locked up, they're like, damn, that's messed up.

No, it's not that messed up. Y'all signed them because you know he had beef. And then you made the song that he had beef with platinum. So the dudes he shot or robbed didn't forget about it. You made them more angry because now they're like, we're going to get the drop on you. So now the beef elevates to another level or they got to do something to protect themselves. So they locked up or they dying. And this is a cycle that we continue.

But the labels are using it too because you could say this is not the type of sound we're going to go after. Because not only does it elevate the sound, it elevates the beef. So if you make a strategic decision that that's what you're going to do, you realize that that's profitable and that's how you're choosing to make your money. The sad thing is, you know, at the end of the day is the record label and the record industry is a business, right? For sure. So look at these kids that come from places where they don't have much and they have beef and they're going back and forth and they're looking at these streaming numbers going up and they're in a label looking at it as okay well i'm gonna make money off of this yeah and they put more money into it and you know hopefully you know they hope that this artist goes for 10 years but a lot of times they don't

because like what my son says that this record that you just talked about shooting me or killing me or robbing me just sold a million records but like you said businesses protect their investment so even if i know i'm gonna sign an artist who has a likelihood of dying because they got beef now and even you see other corporations do it i'm gonna take an insurance policy out on you so even in the event of your demise which is probably gonna happen i'm gonna protect my asset on the back now is that real because i've been i've been seeing that floating around but then it's just like they was like that's not true even they keep saying that about Empire but Empire is not even a label it's a distribution right that's that's true I mean I was

signed to Epic Records and when I got signed to Epic Records they wanted me to sign get a life insurance policy on me I the artist acts they have to sign off on it though I didn't sign off on it, but absolutely positively. They give you a big upfront money, and they want to make sure that they can make their money back. If something happens to you, they don't get that money back. So they look at it like, if something happens, we'll get a life insurance policy to get our money back. But you don't have to sign it. No, I didn't sign it.

But I've seen it with corporations like Walmart. There's a little documentary that talks about Walmart taking out small policies on their workers, who are not necessarily worth as much as a hip hop artist would be worth and still making good on their investment in the event that someone dies. So these corporations are doing that. Right. How much responsibility do we put on the industry and rappers for creating this culture? Yeah, brother. I mean, on the industry. And I think they have not equivalent amount of responsibility because we just talked about who benefits. And so at the end of the day, they walk with all the bags. While at the same time, back in the neighborhoods, we have to deal with a lot of this trauma. And that's where you don't see.

All of this stuff lands right back in our lap. And at the end of the day, the industry walks with the bag. And so, yes, they should have some responsibilities not equal responsibility you know I was gonna ask you a question AT Mitchell yes sir I have a huge problem with New York's gun laws right sir I'm explaining to you why right so I'm a licensed owner right I can carry my gun and I think 35 37 states legally carried on my hip, not a problem. New York, I have a problem. I saw in the private sector saying, because we kind of came up on the same time.

Most of the times when people carry weapons, it's not to do something aggressive, it's defending. Yes, sir. Right? So if I'm walking around New York City and I walk out this building and somebody tries to rob me, I can't defend myself. You know what I mean? And people say, well, you get security. Okay, yeah, that sounds good. But a lot of people can't afford 24 hours, seven days a week of security. Right. You know what I mean?

And that's a problem because if I get caught with my gun trying to defend myself, defending myself, not aggressive, not robbery, not shooting, not doing nothing stupid, just trying to defend myself like I do when I'm in Georgia or Florida or Texas or any of those other places, I go to jail for three years. That's crazy to me. That doesn't sit well with me for trying to defend myself. You know what I mean? Right, right.

And I do understand what you're saying, man, as a licensed gun owner. But you know, and I know that there's a lot of people who are walking around here with unlicensed. And that's why we need guns for them. That's why we need guns because they like it. Guns for them. So at the end of the day, would you, and hopefully we won't have to experience an OK Corral type situation where there's two people out there literally, you know, banging in the middle of Times Square or downtown Manhattan or whatever, because, again, you're dealing with people that are legally licensed versus people that are not. And a lot of it has to do with training. You know, you've got people that don't know how to shoot, which is part of why we actually got boycott black murder

because we see this stuff again. It winds up back in the neighborhood's lap where people are dying. Innocent people are dying from senseless gun violence every day. So it is, you know, it's almost like it's unfortunate for those of you who are responsible. But I think when you look at a city

as crowded as New York City, you know, it can happen anywhere. You have a lot more casualties. Because criminals are smart. They know nine times out of ten, if somebody's walking down the street, especially in New York, you ain't got a legal gun, unless you're a police officer, correction officer, or was able to get it. Now people are starting to get it, but very few. So they know nine times out of ten they got the drop on you.

Right. And it just always bothered me with New York City with that. Yeah, man, this is the biggest city out of all cities. And so at the end of the day, man, we want to make sure that everybody's safe. You know, we want to make sure that those of you who have the right and the privilege of being able to arm yourselves versus those people who the majority of us who are not. We want to make sure everybody's safe. And that's the work that we do. So we just really just trying to keep, you know, this work going. These messages, these campaigns, they have to be, you know,

again, back to hip-hop and the industry. Everybody has to be involved. And how are they keeping the guns off the street? What's the process to try to make sure they get more guns off the street? I don't think they are. I mean, that's another good question. I mean, to like Charlemagne's point, the illegal guns, the access to weaponry in the neighborhoods right now is crazy. You see the guns they're pulling off these streets?

Yo, bro, we talking about guns. Yo, literally. But the question is, why are they even being sold? Why do you have the ability to get assault rifles? And that's my issue, my challenge around the guns, because I understand the importance of defending yourself. And I think that is important, and it's a right that people have, right? Second Amendment.

But the issue becomes when there's so many guns in circulation. Like, I know, you know, when I was coming up, if a couple of people had a gun, it was like, damn, you know who had the guns in the neighborhood. And you knew if something would happen, this might happen.

But I remember, like, you know, not too distant past, it's like every kid got a gun. has the ability to get a gun and it's like there's way too many guns in circulation and the nra and the folks who produce guns are advocating for more guns to be in communities and i just don't and the proof is in the pudding it doesn't make us safer it hasn't made society safer so i think we have to take a different approach to responding to how we keep ourselves safe and what we do. Because now every man, woman, child in America has access to a gun. And before, like you said, it was a.38 special.

It was a beat-up revolver. It was a gun that looked dirty and dusty. Now to your point, what you said earlier, I mean, they have military-grade equipment. They've got colorful guns. Coast guns. They've colorful guns. Ghost guns. They got all the tools, extended clips. It's crazy. The police can't beat them.

That's a fact. I think what has to happen, though, it has to be a culture shift, right? Because the culture of violence is so prominent right now that just defense and you having a gun for defense immediately puts you in more and more danger, right? If you got a gun, a lot of people who are not trained in de-escalation and they're just a regular citizen, it's regular citizens every day that are ready to kill you for stepping on their foot. You can't give

those type of people guns. I watched in the restaurant where the lady shot the lady, because she was arguing with her, pulled the gun out and shot her and said, yeah, you thought she was bad. A regular fist fight turned into, and she probably was a licensed carrier, and shot the lady shot the lady because she was arguing with her. Pulled the gun out and shot her and said, yeah, you thought you was bad. A regular fist fight turned into, and she probably was a licensed carrier, and shot the lady dead. And it's like, you can't, everybody can't have guns.

There has to be psychotherapy things that we do. There has to be a strenuous process that you go through to make sure that you're walking around these streets. Because if you're just scared, a lot of people shoot you because you're scared. Imagine a racist person, I'm walking behind him, he see me and go, oh, boom, lot of people shoot you because you scared if i'm walking imagine a racist person i'm walking behind him he see me oh boom boom and shoot and it happens and it happens all the time so it has to be the culture has to shift you know american culture too i i don't like when they try to say hip-hop and black this is american culture this is the wild wild west you know what i mean but what i will say about hip-hop

culture right and and this is what I want to do, because I don't want to put it all on the music. Like, music is a result of the reality. Sure. Not the opposite. The reality is not a result of music. These kids are talking about what they're actually going through, because that's what I did.

I would be hypocritical to act like I don't understand that. I came in here, mice on lefty, gun in the right palm. Popping niggas in they sleep so they die calm. So was what this is what i knew at 18 years old this was our reality but i do have to say at what point right once that reality shifts and you become a young millionaire right what are you doing because the industry and everybody is invested in us killing each other and that's dying that's they're making million dollar investments in there what responsibility do the artists who get rich have to invest in us living? What are you willing to give? Because we know, okay, that's entertainment.

We're saying this is entertainment. This is what we're talking about. We ain't living that. So now in real life, like the actors do, right? The actors play commando. They do this. Robert De Niro does this. And he goes back to his community, and he invests in that community. He invests in

making sure that the people around him are better so I want to see artists right? I want to see artists when I put this boycott black murder thing together it was saying to myself I want to see artists athletes, everybody prominent regular community activists, you know

brothers from the community who are doing the work sit down and say okay what do we need to invest in our communities to make sure the realities that we talk about in this music, they don't have to experience that no more, right? Let me ask you, my son, you know, what do you say to somebody that say that now you're the old man? And the reason I say that is, you know, the first time people say is, oh, they could get security.

You know, and I know, coming up, a lot of artists faked it, right? You look like you had everything. You got the nice car, but you didn't really have it. You showed out because it made you look good. It got you into that club. It got you a song played. It got this, that, and the other. They didn't really have it.

And a lot of times, a lot of people, they run with 50 people because they can't afford security. Those 50 people is free. They're going to ride regardless. So what do you say to those people? Because a lot of these artists are doing that. They can't afford security. If you can't afford to protect't afford you can't afford to protect it you can't afford to wear it and that's what i'm saying and that's and that's the reality of the situation exactly but no but the thing is i wasn't like that and i wore it but i would i understand i wasn't wise i

didn't have a lot of people around me that told me different things and the one person who did me and him would go back and forth and argue about, and he'd be like, you can't do this, you can't do this. And Mike, you also was built different. I was. I don't want to talk about that. You had Mike to be security.

I mean, I didn't mean it. That wasn't really what I wanted to say. I'm talking about on the cover. This on the cover. But I still was, I still was, yeah, I was just a different breed of individual. I would be by myself.

I never needed 50 people. You understand what I'm saying? I was willing to deal with ever consequences But even that was didn't make much sense right because I was always on edge and it created more situations But I'm just saying at this point hip-hop The hip-hop the culture of hip-hop is so much bigger. It's not just the music is sports It's everything right and we have to invest in our lives the same way that every other community does. Right, that's right.

And that's what Boycott Black Murder is. Okay, we make the music. We're saying that drill music and none of that is what's responsible for the violence. Then we have to say, I want to see these artists, all the drill artists, all the top artists, say, okay, I'm going back to the communities. I'm going to invest this, right? We're going to put this amount of money in a fund. What do our communities need?

These communities who are feeding you, making you millionaires, making you rich, what are you willing to invest to make sure the kids don't have to go through the same thing that you got to do? There are circumstances, trauma that's going on in those communities. What are you willing to invest? Are you going to do some concerts? Let's do some concerts in the community so that we could take that money and we could give it back in those communities build these these centers that they have be able to employ the mental health whatever is going on because every other

coaching everything is invested in it we are not investing in it and that's my problem I don't I don't I don't not mad at drill music nah I came up on on on streaming street music I came up on street music. I came up on locks. I came up on M.O.P. It wasn't nobody harder than M.O.P. It wasn't nobody harder than Fred Drill. So I understand that that's a reality.

But now we understand that people are dying every day, and these kids are dying at 13. This is their only way out. They only see this way out. So if we're not giving them something else, then they're going to keep killing each other. And we're just killing ourselves. I'm glad you said that, though,

because we often have revisionist history as older people and act like we didn't grow up on the worst shit known to fucking man. It wasn't at this propensity. Like, I was thinking about... I don't know. I don't know. I can't say...

You listen to me. When you walked into a club where M.O.P. was on... Ante up. Ante up. But how many M.O.P.s were there? You listen to me. When you walked into a club where M.O.P. was on. Ante up. Ante up. But how many M.O.P.s were there? You listen to me. There wasn't 20 M.O.P.s. As soon as they played M.O.P., they were snatching the chains.

We were. You didn't get shot with a chopper. You did get shot. That's what I'm trying to say. You didn't throw your guns in the air and all that shit like that. But that was one honor. You wasn't getting shot. I don't know about that.

Not like this. I don't think it was at the propensity that we see now. It wasn't. That's my issue with this. Because the access wasn't the same. But we're acting like they haven't been doing Stop the Violence records, self-destruction records since the beginning of time.

That's another thing. We need a Stop the Violence. I'm reaching out to all artists. We need a self-destruction. We need one of those right now. And we need it from prominent people. We need young dudes. I need Dirk on the song, talking my eye.

I've been through this, but I realize we can't be killing each other right now. I need Chief Keef to get up. I need those because that's where these people think that they following them. And not saying that they responsible, but they think these young kids want to be y'all. And not knowing that your reality is different. You live in mansions now. You away from violence.

You ain't outside beefing. That's what you had to go through to get to. So now invest to make sure that these kids don't have to go through the same things you And even evolution, right? Like certain people, you'll eat a certain thing. And then at some point, history will say, hey, you can't keep eating that because you'll die. You don't say eat more of that.

So even in the context of music, I think at some point, and you see it happen with artists after they make it, they say, I don't want to make music like this no more because it's dangerous and it's going to cause these issues. But no one allows that to get visibility. So there is something that is also impeding the process of evolution that would naturally happen where I think you would get less and less music like this. So as a result, you get more and more music like this. And then the other things start to happen where the community is impacted. And we're not just talking about violence because I think in every facet of life,

violence happens, and that's a reality. But we're talking about hyper-violence. What hyper-equipment to cause violence? So we're talking about violence happening at a propensity that we have not seen before. I don't know, man. That 80s crack era was something serious, bro.

No, as far as statistically, you're correct, Charlamagne, right? There's way more people that got shot and killed in the 80s and the 90s than they are today. We are, statistically speaking, we're much safer now than we were back then. Maybe we see it more because of social media.

Because of the social media. Now, we didn't have that back then, so when you put more of the social media on it, it just magnifies it. So that's back to his point. This is a different level of violence. And the question is, who's the safer? Because it's like if children are, if people are still dying, and we say it sometimes in the community, one death is too much.

Right. And we're not just seeing one death. Even when we were talking about Labor Day weekend in Philadelphia, in Chicago, where you talk about mass shootings. This wasn't necessarily something that you saw before, where three, four, five, seven, 10 people are shot at one time. We're dealing with a different kind of, I think, a kind of hyper-violence that we haven't necessarily dealt with before. But even then, early on, you would see different things. But now I'm seeing innocent people being killed.

Yes, sir. Old grandmothers and grandfathers. It's crazy. It was at one time, and I know robbery and violence is no respect, but it was more of a respect. You don't mess with kids. You don't mess with older people.

Exactly. Now it just seems like anybody can get it. All that's out the window now. You robbing people with one leg. Anybody can get it now, unfortunately, is the mantra amongst the perpetrators, right? There's no morals and no codes anymore, whereas we did have that. It's coward culture.

It was a coward culture. That's what seems to be the hype. This is why, again, we need to all collaborate. We need to all bond because there's a number of us that be knowing how—and these young people, most of which, I mean, I say that I don't even like to blame generations but they're they're misguided missiles right they they really are they're not they don't know until the at the end of the day the work that we do you know with the crisis management system the work that we do in the caravans global movement around this country we see these young people every day and we work to meet them where they are and hopefully be able to convince them that what they're going to pathway that they're on is not it's not going to end well but as we all know it's somebody's going

to throw a brick right and then they're going to find themselves in a situation where then now they're realizing from the back end that they you know it wasn't worth it and so we're just we're trying to do that and the deep thing about it is now when we talk about violence we talk about in the context of it being a public health issue. Yes. Like violence is a disease the way it spreads. Right. So even when we think about something like the coronavirus, people could have easily said, well, there's been the flu before. And some people did. They said, you know, we've had these issues before. It's not that big a deal. And then thousands, hundreds of thousands and millions of people perish because of that mentality.

And then at some point, the people who are responsible and who are in leadership have to say, we have to devise a real strategy to respond to this because we have to save lives. And we're the folks who are saying we don't want people to die. And I think we're in the same situation. Sure, maybe violence has happened at a higher propensity before, but we're still in a situation where an epidemic exists. Absolutely. But unfortunately, we don't have an epidemic response. That's right.

We don't get the resources. That's right. We don't have a real response system. And in fact, people are saying, let more of this flourish. So that's my challenge with it. In certain neighborhoods or in certain communities, right? Like mass shootings do require mass resources. Right.

So when we see mass shootings in other communities, we see all of the people that are attached to that community come out, as been mentioned. But in our communities— It's basically you telling me about what happened on Parkland. Like the Parkland shooting. And, you know, the list goes on and on. You go back to Columbine. You can go up to Newtown. You can look at, you know, the Vegas when they shot at the concert, the Nevada joint.

Those neighborhoods and communities came out. I mean, literally in Newtown, the community of Newtown, Connecticut, said that they were not sending their kids back into that school. So what they did as a city is they tore down a demo at the school and built a whole new school for their kids because they're animate. My kids are not going to be re-traumatized. The difference is, and this is why I go back to your point about where hip-hop, I think, is our secret sauce. their kids because they would they're animate my kids are not going to be re-traumatized the difference is and this is why i go back to your point about where hip-hop i think is our secret source when these things are happening every single day in our communities our artists our personalities our you know our superstars our leaders don't come out in that same manner we

don't organize a benefit concert yet you know we don't have it so that we have the ability to raise millions of dollars to go towards it. How much did the people raised in the school department? Oh, man, they've been now since day one, they've been raising hundreds of millions of dollars. I mean, quiet money. This is what they do, and I respect it. But what I'm saying at the same time,

when you do that research, that we could do something similar if we band together. And what's fascinating is it's communities who don't experience the same propensity of violence who are able to get even more resources than us, who are experiencing violence at higher rates, and we don't even get the base level of what they get. And it doesn't make sense at some point. You're right.

But then, you know, it's because the judicial system is big business. From the prisons and everything else. It does. Yes. So it's just like they said, you ain't meant to survive because it's a setup. So you're set up to not only die, but to fuel an economy that thrives off you dying. And at that point, you got to realize we have to do something different, which is what we say all the time. And this is part of what we're saying because it can become normalized.

It can feel like this is something that always happens. It's not a big deal. That's the feeling right now. That's the feeling right now. That's exactly what I'm talking about. When I looked at PNB Rock, right, and I was looking at some of the comments and I was just seeing, and I'm like, wow, this is looking like deja vu. And most people are like, yo, well, that's what happens.

That's what happens. And it's like, and I was having a conversation with Megan. He was really in a dark place. And he was just like, yo, this is not okay. You know, this is one of my brothers from my hood. Like, this is not okay. And I was talking to him and communicating with him. And I understand that this is very dangerous.

In this moment, what happened to him, you know, is different codes. There's things involved. Pop smoke. Like, these are dangerous and we have to and that's why i want to call for a hip-hop summit because we need leaders we need hip-hop artists we need people to come together and say look we are united right we we're not trying we're not promoting anything we know that bad things happen but we want everybody to know that this is a community you know and we're going to protect each other we want to make sure that people feel

safe that we're looking out for each other if We want to make sure that people feel safe, that we're looking out for each other if nothing else. You know what I'm saying? I agree with everything y'all are saying. I just wonder that being that we know systemically all of these socioeconomic conditions were created to have these brothers even go to a life of crime, are we able to, we can't recreate that.

No, we can create a system. You got to, like Angelo says this all the time, we have to have a we can create a system you gotta like Angelo says this all the time we have to have a system to combat a system that's what I'm saying we can create a system but it's not gonna be

like the government no it's not gonna be the government it's gonna be it has to be grassroots it has to like everything we've done like the fact that

we create culture right the fact that somebody can wear dreads today and everybody's wearing dreads somebody wears a beard today

somebody's doing this and that that means that we have the power to change the culture can wear dreads today and everybody's wearing dreads. Somebody wears a beard today. Somebody's doing this and that. That means that we have the power to change the culture. We influence behavior. So it has to be those people who are influencers, not to say, yo, this is not my fight. I can't be involved in that. I'm doing this. No, they know that's what you want to say. They know that you're more invested in protecting your personal assets, right? So once we say to ourselves that it's not about me, it's about the greater good of all of us, let me utilize. Now, I'm not going to use everything. Okay, you know, we have Harry Belafonte who funded the movement.

Okay, I'm going to make sure Marlon DeKing is able to do this. I know you're doing this, so let me make sure that you're able to do this freely without being shut down and this and that because when i get on instagram they're gonna shadow ban me because i talk about certain things when i talk about the propensity and violence in our communities and talk about stopping boycott black murder it gets two or three views is i can't go live for six months like these are things that's happening so if we're not creating our own platforms if we're not empowering our own leaders and our own voices in our community then we we left to get whatever they give us so we have to say yo i see these people doing this and i know that's what needs to be done let me even if i gotta quietly fund this let me quietly fund that if i gotta build something and be a donor and something let me do

something that contributes to making sure that we say so what mice is i'm sorry brother but what mice is speaking to is like practice today like when you look at the armed forces right you have the marines you have the army the navy the air force and they don't play the necessarily the same position but they together they're the armed forces so this everybody's job is not to be on the front line right and so we don't expect for just any average person to say i'm gonna hit the streets tomorrow i'm gonna interrupt violence. That's not your lane. But bring us, those of us that are the Marines, that are willful to go out there without a vest, without a gun.

Make sure that we got the aid that we need. We shouldn't have to be relying upon government and other people to be able to keep the work going on the streets. When we are hip hop, you know, we come from that. This is our culture. And so with that type of support, that may be your contribution to the work that's going on on the ground. And it will be well received. And what A.T. is saying, which is deep, that analogy, and we talk about all the time, is that you have to also realize you're at war. At some point, you have to realize that you're under attack and you're experiencing something that others don't experience. Because if you if someone's fighting a war against you and you don't think you're at war, you're just dying in silence.

And we're saying that at some point, and this is the point for us, we've been doing this for years, but we're saying it must be the point for the rest of us to say we're at war and we have to respond accordingly. The artists are so important because what people know is that art imitates life and light imitates art. So they know art impacts lifestyle. So they know art impacts lifestyle. So they say, if we can get artists to do X, Y, and Z, this is going to impact lifestyle because they know lifestyle is culture. And that's really what's happening. And I've had the opportunity to talk with brothers who have spent long times and even created gangs. what they some of them over years say is that the lifestyle that they're living is not really a lifestyle it's a death

style and at some point you have to come to that realization and then you say if i want to stay alive i have to have a lifestyle it can't be a death style because this is going to take us down this direction so let's talk about the the problems i was going to say so what are the solutions yeah that's why i want to talk about man up and and boycott black murder. But what exactly is man up? Oh, man, man up is like you said, brother, is one of those solutions. It's a it's a community based nonprofit, you know, street organization that I founded now 18 years ago after the unfortunate shooting of an eight year old named Deshaun Hill in East New York, Brooklyn. Already being on the front line, I mean, you know, I felt that when that little boy got shot and killed,

I wasn't doing enough. And so I had to do more. I literally just started by babysitting his older brother and sister, his little brother and sister that was actually with him when he died. And so I just created an after-school program, spent it to a summer camp, spent it to an athletic tournament, and spent it to what we have now, 18 years later, you know, a multimillion dollar nonprofit that's putting multi-million dollars back into the community by hiring people from the neighborhood, people

who have been there and done that, people that got backgrounds, but they're now, you know, they're using that influence that they once had for the greater good. And so that's one of the solutions. We are part of the crisis management system. Y'all had a lot of my colleagues up here before Erica Ford, Tamika Mount, Unto the Freedom. We got a list of other organizations citywide that we formed here in New York City,

and we go across country, and we help other people do the same work in their neighborhoods. So that's part of the solution. But the support for these type of organization is shy. You know, we are unfortunately we're vulnerable because we get our money from the government. Again, if we had our superstars like what we've seen happen in Florida and Connecticut and other people, you know, they've actually come out to support the work that's going on on the ground. Then we can feel a lot more confident in the work and the efforts that we're doing. And tell me about the czar position. So, I mean, I'm the first czar that was ever appointed in government here in New York City.

I've worked under four different mayors in the past. And this particular mayor, Mayor Eric Adams, he did something historic, right? He said he wanted to be different. So he sought out, you know, a person here that he knows that comes from the ground, that works in the community, that's in the trenches. And he says, I want to give you an appointed position. I want to bring you into my administration, place you alongside my other high level government officials. And I want you to lead the city in this particular charge. And so I became the gun violence prevention czar in June of this year.

And, you know, it's been it's been amazing. I mean, just I didn't even know that much more about my own city now that I've traveled now throughout the rest. I'm up in the Bronx and Queens, Staten Island, Brooklyn, all over. And, you know, we're thinking about the solutions. We have a hundred plus million billion dollar budget. You know, we figured that we have the resources, but they're caught up in the agencies and we need to loosen up the pipeline so that we make sure that the people who are on the ground actually get some of those resources. But again, we cannot rely solely on that. And I just want to say part of the reason the czar position is so important is because oftentimes, even if you look at New York City, where there are a lot of organizations that are doing crisis management, addressing violence, they often in silos, and they're not working together in a network always. So creating the czar position allows you to centralize those things

and connect people together. So the same thing is true in Newark with Keisha Yori, who's running the Office of Violent Prevention, which just happened maybe a year ago. So this work has been happening across the country, but it's often happened in small pockets. So to create a position like the czar for AT, now you have someone in leadership who is coordinating these efforts more. From the ground. The difference is, in addition to my brother, is that people like myself,

normally we weren't placed in government, right? Because we were on the menu. You know, now we literally, we're at the table and we are literally chairing the table. So that's the difference. And so I appreciate the opportunity to represent the city in that regard. And I believe that when we all come together, my job is, as the brother said, is to centralize everything, to bring everybody together. I appreciate this opportunity because, again, our work has been kind of swept under the rug. And people have been dying and they've got this mindset that that's what's supposed to happen. And their neighbors, you're supposed to kill each other. But that's not so.

Even if one person still continues to die, that's one death too many. That's why I love when Mike started with the boycott black murder movement, man. Break that down for us, man. Well, it's pretty much just an extension of what AT does, right? It's that me having an influence in the hip-hop culture and also in the streets, and also being

on the front line of this movement, and just understanding that violence is so many different directions it comes from. We boycott against police violence, we boycott against community violence, it's so many different ways. And it all boils down to black violence, because blacks are

the leading people who are dying from gun violence every day in this community. So we have to have the same energy for both. Right. The same way we're going out there marching and we're saying we need to have accountability. We need to have accountability in our own community. So what I wanted to do was utilize it because there are so many different leaders across this nation, AT and like he said, Keisha Urie and also there are brothers out in Vegas that we're working with right now. So we want to connect with all of the like minds, you know, Pastor McBride, Chico. Yes. You know, all of these brothers, there are brothers who have,

a lot of them are formerly incarcerated, some aren't, who understand what it is needed in this time, right? And I want us to come together and create this whole initiative and go to communities and empower the people in those communities who have the voices, who have the ears of the communities and say, OK, what do you need in these communities? Right. And then we we do what we can to bring those resources to make sure that the murders and the violence is stopped because we understand that poverty is violence. You know, it's, violence does not happen where well-to-do people are. It doesn't happen.

And they don't need as much police. They don't need as much any of those things. I've been all around this world, and I realize that the safest places do not have police in them. That's right. There are no police on the corner. So that's a myth.

So what happens is the safest communities are communities who don't have poverty. They have resources. They have the resources. So what we is the safest communities are communities who don't have poverty. They have resources. They have the resources. So what we want to do at Boycott Black Murder is utilize every voice, every community leader, every, you know, violence interrupter and come together and say, OK, we're going to your community. We want to utilize. We like the Wu-Tang Clan of gun violence. Right.

And everybody has their own voice. Everybody has their own state, but it's not working in silos. It's us coming together. We want to come to your community and we want to show up. And you want to bring your favorite artist to your community

and we want him to sit with us and we want him to tell you what we don't tell you. So we want to collaborate with artists and with influencers and all of those and come together and create this movement

that's going to take a lot of these guns and take the violence out of the street. So if you even look like I got brothers like PNB, you know, that was one of our own. That brother was one who literally would come to the community. That's right. Would be on the streets, out there at the schools, you know, and that's something that's why this particular death is real personal to us because it's like, you know, now you're taking out the good rappers.

You know, you're taking out the good rappers you know you're taking out the good artists those that are involved in community you know and that's really something that's really hit us hard when we heard of the brothers passing and so we hope that we don't want to see another PNB you know we want to make sure I didn't want to see another Nipsey but it's a disease Charlemagne and nobody's exempt or immune to it. So, I mean, this brother was sitting down just having some lunch with his family, you know? And so if we don't want to see another, then that's why, again, we all got to come together so we can prevent it. We can't guarantee, you know, but we can at least feel good that we've made every strong effort in the process. And I agree with all of that.

I still think, though, it still has to be some type of self preservation. I mean, like when you're worth something, you got to move like you're worth it. You can't just be, but you got to feel like you're worth something. And I say to people all the time, we often confuse cost,

worth and value for young folks. It's hard to feel like you were something if you have no value and there's no value in your community and your community doesn't have resources, which is why most young people, and I felt the same way, you don't think you're going to live past 21 and you might not be in the army, but why do you feel that way? Why does your community produce that kind of trauma in young black boys and young black girls? It's because there's no value in their communities. And precisely what we have to do is not only infuse those resources, but when Mice talks about building a movement,

we're talking about building that system that transforms that very thing. Where young people say, I do have value, and I do have a reason to live, and I shouldn't pick up a gun. And I should also tell this other brother don't pick up a gun, and don't use that gun,

because I value you, and I value you. And Malcolm said it way back when, he's like like who taught you to hate yourself right that's the question we have to ask ourselves because you don't kill somebody you love or someone you care about and you and you kill someone because you don't think they're you and that's what I say and we have to identify each other as brothers again right we took the neighbor out of neighborhood and we just said the hood. So we don't even see ourselves as connected no more.

So we got to put the neighbor back in hood. We got to identify each other as brothers. I'm dropping a song today called Boycott Black Murder and the video drops. It's very powerful. I want you all to see the video. Hopefully you'll play the song, Envy, you know, quote unquote, hopefully.

You can't play positive music on the radio. You can't do it. That's why we're in this situation we're in now. That's why we're in this situation. you know quote unquote hopefully I really want us to understand that the dynamics of our community is very serious right we are at war against the system and then we at war with each other right you know the minister said I don't even know who the enemy is right now. You make it very hard for me. Yeah. You know what I'm saying? When we're going against each other.

So we have to re-identify each other and see each other as brothers again and connect with each other. Because when you see somebody as your brother, you don't want to take his life. You want to do everything you can to protect and make sure that that person is safe. So let's put the neighbor back in neighborhood. Let's start community, build community, unity in community. We are so separated. Like, people got beef with the next-door neighbor. You came to come out your house.

They had water. You're the op. My next door. Yo, we got. And I'm like, what? He live next door. My next-door neighbor. Our doors was open.

They used to just walk in. Yo, can I get a cup of sugar? Yo, y'all got milk in the refrigerator? Go get it. Like, we lived in the community. That's not happening no more because the culture has told us that that's the wrong thing. And you gotta think about

this. Just really think about this. You can't value your life when you willing to kill somebody and take a chain that you know you throwing your life away. Listen to what I'm saying. 90% of the people who kill somebody or rob somebody in our community is going to do 20, 15, 20 years. And they made a conscious decision that that chain, that one second or whatever, is worth that.

How much do you actually value your life? I want to know how did we get so poisoned that we put the value in that more than our freedom in our lives and they're tricking you out of your life and i want to just again i want to reinforce and i want to give a shout out to my brothers and sisters that man up incorporated yeah um because if you came out to where we are and we're in east new york we're in the seven five which is one of the if not right now top of the city unfortunately but in pockets where we exist we call each other brother we call each other sister. We call each other sister. You know, from as young as five-year-old babies, they come into our programs.

They adopt that mindset. When they come and they leave out, they see each other's family because that's what it's about. We literally are, and I'm going to put that out there. We are biologically related. Every single one of us, even in this room, you know, there's one race, there is a human race and we have to stop thinking that we are separate. And like when you go to the funeral, you go to the family reunion, you bump into people that you realize that you are related to. That's right. Not knowing that we really all come from the same, you know, sort of. And that's what we're doing.

And we have to continue to do that. We have to raise that bar so that we build that community back up. And that's how you create transformation. Because when you look at the Cure Violence model and what's so successful is they recognize areas or precincts or floor block radius that they say there's high rates of violence. And they say, we're going to show up here, create supports, and we're going to reduce the violence. And that's in fact what happens. You create a culture and a small block radius that reduces gun violence and it works. But we don't get the resources to do it in the places that it needs to happen.

This isn't a formula that we're making up. This is a formula that's worked for decades. And we're saying we just want more resources to continue to do it and end violence in our communities to keep people alive, to show them they're valued, to put the neighbor back in neighborhood, and to create transformation that makes other people feel safe, too. Because if this four-block radius doesn't feel safe in this violence, it's going to spill into your four-block radius. So do the right thing here so that

everyone can feel safe. Yeah, what Elijah Muhammad used to say, Elijah Muhammad used to say, a neighborhood can change a city, a city can change a state, a state can change a nation, a city can change. A state, a state can change. A nation, a nation can change the world. Nation building. Nation building, man.

Let's introduce the song. The song is getting played today. Today, this song is called Boycott Black Murder. It is a testament of what's going on in communities. The video we'll be dropping today, too, is a very powerful video. So I hope that it has the impact that I want it to have, man. And first,

go to BoycottBlackMurder.com. That's correct. Take the pledge. We need everybody to take the pledge, man, and say, I can't kill my brother because I love my brother.

How do we donate to Man Up? Man, they can go to our website. It's manupinc.org. That's M-A-N-U-P-I-N-C dot O-R-G. They can go to my website, at-mitchell.com as well. And, you know, all donations are tax deductible.

We got the same status that Red Cross, Salvation Army, all the other charities have. We have the same charity status. I don't want donations. We want investments. That's what's right. Invest in us living, man.

All right. Well, it's the Breakfast Club. Good morning. Yes, sir. Hey, guys. I'm Kate Max. You might know me from my popular online series, All right. Well, it's the Breakfast arise once we've hit the pavement together. Listen to Post Run High on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Hello, my undeadly darlings. It's Teresa, your resident ghost host.

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And the question was, should the boy go back to his father in Cuba? Mr. Gonzalez wanted to go home and he wanted to take his son with him. Or stay with his relatives in Miami? Imagine that your mother died trying to get you to freedom. Listen to Chess Peace, the Elian Gonzalez story,

on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. but in a way that informs and empowers all people. We discuss everything from prejudice to politics to police violence, and we try to give you the tools to create positive change in your home, workplace, and social circle. We're going to learn how to become better allies to each other. So join us each Saturday for Civic Cipher on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Hey there, I'm Dr. Maya Shankar, and I'm a scientist who studies human behavior. Many of us have experienced a moment in our lives that changes everything,

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