The Breakfast Club - Naked Sports: Caitlin Clark vs Angel Reese

Episode Date: November 16, 2024

The Black Effect Presents... Naked Sports with Cari Champion! Welcome to Season 4 of NAKED SPORTS! We're excited to kick off the season with a six-episode docu-series, *The Making of a Rivalry*, which follows the rise of women's basketball stars Caitlin Clark and Angel Reese. The series traces their journey from high school to college, examining the media frenzy that has fueled their rivalry. It highlights their impact on the sport and how they've shaped the perception of women's basketball. The series also explores the importance of rivalries in sports and why competition is essential.  This episode features interviews with players, coaches, and sports journalists, offering insights into the players' skills, personalities, and the challenges they face. Special guests in this episode include Jemele Hill, Sarah Spain, Sabreena Merchant, and more." Connect: @CariChampion @NakedwithCariChampion Check out NAKED SPORTS on YouTube!See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

Hey, this is Justin Richmond, host of the Broken Record Podcast. Every week, I or my co-host, Leah Rose, sit down with the artists you love to get unparalleled creative insight. Our new series is looking at one of the most influential jazz labels ever, Blue Note Records. You'll hear from artists like legendary bassist Ron Carter, singer-songwriter Noah Jones, and guitarist Julian Lodge. Listen on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen to podcasts. Hey y'all, Nimini here.

I'm the host of a brand new history podcast for kids and families called Historical Records. Executive produced by Questlove, The Story Pirates, and John Glickman, Historical Records brings history to life through hip hop. Flash slam, another one gone. Bash bam, another one gone. The cracker, the bat, and another one gone.

A tip, but a cap, because another one gone. Each episode is about a different inspiring figure from history, like this one about Claudette Colvin, a 15-year-old girl in Alabama who refused to give up her seat on the city bus nine whole months before Rosa Parks did the same thing. Check it. -♪ And it began with me, did you know, did you know? I wouldn't give up my seat

Nine months before Rosa, it was Claudette Colvin. Get the kids in your life excited about history by tuning in to Historical Records because in order to make history, you have to make some noise. Listen to Historical Records on the iHeart Radio app, Apple podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. From tips for healthy living to the latest medical breakthroughs, WebMD's Health Discovered podcast keeps you up to date on today's most important health issues.

Through in-depth conversations with experts from across the healthcare community, WebMD reveals how today's health news will impact your life tomorrow. It's not that people don't know that exercise is healthy, it's just that people don't know why it's healthy, and we're struggling to try to help people help themselves and each other.

Listen to WebMD Health Discovered on the iHeartRadio app or wherever you get your podcasts. For me, the year 2020 presents an alchemy of highlights and lowlights. The pandemic and the ensuing shutdown of the country were alarming, yet simultaneously there was this racial renaissance. It prompted this nation to confront its ugly history of white versus black. And while the world was working to find its way back to normal, there were two young women who had graduated high school that very year, preparing to embark on their collegiate and athletic careers.

Both highly touted players from two different backgrounds, two different playing styles, but arguably the same agenda to be the best. Because of COVID and different restrictions across the country, and if we're honest, lack of interest, the world wasn't focused on women's college basketball. So for the masses, Caitlin Clark and Angel Reese seemingly became famous overnight. However, as we find out in this series, Caitlin Clark and Angel Reese were supernovas in the making. The masses were just late to the discovery. Clark and Reese clearly represent so much more than basketball. They represent

resilience, possibility, and resistance. There I say, their on-the-court rivalry is what we all needed to push this country out of archaic archetypes that surround the game and filter the way we see women's sports in general. Clark and Reese have expanded the horizons of the game in ways that my humble mind never envisioned. So how did we reach this point? Allow me to tell you a story.

The Superman needed Lex Luthor. The Batman needed the Joker. And I don't mean to put Angel Reese in some kind of villainous role because I don't consider her a villain, but I think every great player needs a foil. The reason why we watch in women's basketball is not just because of one person, it's because of me too.

You know, I don't think there should be any criticism for what she did. I honestly didn't see it when the game was going on. needs a foil. The reason why we watch women's basketball is not just because of one person, it's because of me too. You know, I don't think there should be any criticism for what she did. I honestly didn't see it when the game was going on. But the story became more compelling and the desire to watch and talk about it became more compelling when she had a foil. Angel won a national championship. She has four million plus followers. She's at the Met Gala.

SZA and Meg Thee Stallion want to come sit courtside and watch her. Naked Sports, The Making of a Rivalry, a six-episode docu-series that explores the media frenzy surrounding two supernovas in Caitlyn Clark and Angel Reese. I'm your host, Kari Champion, and welcome to The Making of a Rivalry. Typically, what it takes is for there to be a rivalry, a moment, a star player that comes along that makes us think differently about the game and gets everybody sort of galvanized behind either a sport, a player, a moment. It's always something. You know, there's been watershed moments in Major League Baseball, you could say, when

integration occurred. You could say when Hank Aaron broke Babe Ruth's home run record. There's been these moments that you can just recall off the top of your head that you felt like the sport itself was ascending to a higher place. And so we've been able to experience that. Jamel Hill covered women's basketball in the beginning of her career, and I call her a grizzly media veteran. And she says that this moment in women's basketball has been building. But Caitlin Clark and Angel Reese?

Well, those two, they set off this explosion of interest. This moment in women's basketball is shape shifting. I think a lot of us who have covered women's basketball and women's sports in particular, I think there's other sports you can point to that moment when it happened, where you saw there was a decided shifting move that took the league from one place while growing,

but to an exponential growth. And I'm just really happy I was alive as someone whose first professional beat was the WNBA when I was a young cub reporter. So what I would say is that, yeah, it's shape shifting. It's changing not just the league, it's changing culture, it's changing the way we look at female athletes. I think the last, I would say the last three to five years, it was a steady increase and

then it was like, boom, the rocket hit. The WNBA is in its 28th season, but if you start to think about it, some would say it feels as if history is repeating itself. Jamel reminds us that the NBA, you know, where the men play, wasn't always a ratings juggernaut. People often forget just how poorly the NBA was thought of. Before Magic and Bird kind of took the lead to another level, you're talking about finals games being on tape delay, David Stern having to deal with the reputation that the NBA was full of junkies and they had a massive drug problem in the league. They had a lot of stuff going on, and really they were very concerned

whether or not it'd be financially solvent. Magic and Bird, when they came along, they weren't ready. I mean, they were still in the same delay. They weren't ready for that, but they adapted and they adjusted. You used the word detonated when she arrived. What is it about Caitlin Clark that changed the landscape of women's basketball?

So it's a combination of factors, and I do hope people focus on the fact I said combination. Okay, because I have realized and talking about her in the past, that people only hear the trigger word. After the break, Jamelle will break down some of those trigger words and explain this new fandom for the women's game.

The making of a rivalry, Kaitlyn Clark versus Angel Reese, back in a moment. Is your country falling apart? Feeling tired, depressed, a little bit revolutionary? Consider this, start your own country. I planted the flag. I just kind of looked out of like, this is mine. I own this.

It's surprisingly easy. There are 55 gallons of water, 500 pounds of concrete. Everybody's doing it. I am King Ernest Emmanuel. I am the Queen of La Donia. I'm Jackson I, King of Capriburg. I am the Supreme Leader of the Grand Republic of Montonia. Be part of a great colonial tradition.

Why can't I create my own country? My forefathers did that themselves. What could go wrong? No country willingly gives up their territory. I was making a rocket with the black powder, you know, with explosive warheads. Oh my God. What is that?

Bullets. Bullet holes, yeah. We need help! We need help! We still have the off-road portion to go. Listen to Escape from Zakistan. And we're losing daylight fast. That's Escape from Z-A-Q-istan on the iHeartRadio app,

Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Sup, y'all, this is Questlove, and I'm here to tell you about a new podcast I've been working on with the Story Pirates and John Glickman called Historical Records. It's a family-friendly podcast. Yeah, you heard that right. A podcast for all ages.

One you can listen to and enjoy with your kids starting on September 27th. I'm going to toss it over to the host of Historical Records, Nimny, to tell you all about it. Make sure you check it out. Hey, y'all, Nimny here. I'm the host of a brand new history podcast for kids and families called Historical Records.

Historical Records brings history to life through hip hop. ["History Records"] Flash slam, another one gone. Bash bam, another one gone. The cracker to bat and another one gone. The tip of the cap is another one gone. Each episode is about a different inspiring figure from history, like this one about Claudette Colvin,

a 15-year year old girl in Alabama who refused to give up her seat on the city bus nine whole months before Rosa Parks did the same thing. Check it. And it began with me Did you know, did you know I wouldn't give up my seat Nine months before Rosa

He was Claudette Colvin Get the kids in your life excited about history by tuning in to Historical Records because in order to make history, you have to make some noise. Listen to Historical Records on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Jenny Garth, Jana Kramer, Amy Robach, and TJ Holmes bring you I Do Part 2, a one-of-a-kind experiment in podcasting to help you find love again. If you didn't get it right the first time, it's time to try, try again as they guide

you through this podcast experiment in dating. Hey, I'm Jana Kramer. As they say, those that cannot do, teach. Actually, I think I finally got it right, so take the failures I've had. The second or even third or whatever. Maybe the fourth time around. I'm Jenny Garth 29 years ago, Kelly Taylor said these words I choose me She made her choice she chose herself when it comes to love choose you first. Hi everyone I'm Amy Robach and I'm TJ Holmes and we are well not necessarily

Hi everyone, I'm Amy Robach. And I'm TJ Holmes and we are, well, not necessarily relationship experts. If you're ready to dive back into the dating pool and find lasting love, finally, we want to help. Listen to I Do Part 2 on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen to podcasts. Hi, I'm Marie. And I'm Sydney. And we're M.E.S.

Well, not a mess, but on our podcast called MESS, we celebrate all things messy. But the gag is, not everything is a mess. Sometimes it's just living. Yeah, things like JLo on her third divorce. Living. Girl's trip to Miami. MESS. Ozempic.

Messy, skinny, living. Restaurant stealing a birthday cake. MESS. Wait, what? Girls trip to Miami. Mess. Ozempic. Messy skinny living. Ha ha ha. Restaurant stealing a birthday cake. Mess. Wait, what flavor was the cake though? Okay, that's a good question. Hooking up with someone in accounting

and then getting a promotion. Living. Breaking up with your girlfriend while on Instagram Live. Living. Living. Mmm, this kind of mess. Yeah, well, you get it.

Got it? Live love, mess. Yeah. Well, you get it. Got it. Live, love, mess. Listen to Mess with Sydney Washington and Marie Faustine on iHeartRadio app, Apple podcast, or wherever you get your podcasts. I don't really hear the noise. I just come here and play basketball every single day and that's what I focus on. I want to personally thank Kaitlyn Clark for lifting up our sport.

Dawn Staley isn't wrong. Kaitlyn Clark has lifted the sport, and it was good to hear her say it. But it's not just because Kaitlyn's a great player. There are so many other factors that have been ignored. She is playing like Steph Curry. It's her whole narrative. It's her whole story. It's like the way she plays the style coming from Iowa and While Iowa basketball has its own culture and certainly have had other players But I think when you come from Iowa, there's an underdog nature to that like you're not from LA You're not from you know, New York a known basketball entity you're from Iowa, right? And these this that's a place that, from a national level,

isn't always seen. It's overlooked. It's in the Midwest, right? So where she is, and then she's straight and she's white. And all of those factors, her talent leads first, and she broke a lot of very important records. And then once you start getting to the subgroup and the nuance, you see how that all appeals. But when it hit the fan is when suddenly there's a foe, right? And

I think that's why people make the comparison so much to Bird and Magic. They needed each other. It's like Superman needed Lex Luthor. The Batman needed the Joker. And I don't mean to put Angel Reese in some kind of villainous role because I don't consider her a villain, but I think every great player needs a foil. They need a foil, right? And, you know... A foil meaning someone to say, yeah, you're great, but I'm just as good.

A foil meaning to say, I have just as many tricks. Correct. A foil that can take something from you that people think you deserve. Magic needed Bird to take things from him, to take rookie of the year, to take championships. He needed that to become a great player. And he talks about it all the time. Larry Bird needed the same thing. Why? What did Magic take from Bird? Yo, championships. I mean, they were both duking it out for who was going to be the best player of that generation. And, you know, they're the two most successful

franchises in NBA history. They needed that. You know, Yang needs Yang. Right. And so I think... Twins need twins. Yeah. Shout out to the Yang game, too. It's like you... Drake needs Kendrick. Kendrick needs Drake. Drake needs Kendrick.

I'm saying Drake needs Kendrick. This is what it takes. It's like if you don't just as a reminder. Yes, sir. You need somebody who's going to say like, I got to take it from him. And, you know, I'll relate it back to your favorite player in my Isaiah Thomas. I gotta take it from him. And, you know, I'll relate it back to your favorite player

and my Isaiah Thomas. I did. BOTH LAUGH Now, if anybody knows either of us, that is false. Magic is my favorite. Kobe is my favorite, but if we're talking about that era, magic is my favorite. But Isaiah, he needed magic.

He did. And vice versa. Yes. He needed that foil that was gonna get him there. Which is why people are like, who was Magix? And Michael Jordan needed the pistol. I mean, excuse me, Michael Jordan. Who was Michael Jordan's foil in real time? It was in real time. For how long, in a real way?

Well, see, the thing is, it's like, you know, because of the way we were beating Jordan down, you can all look it up, people. It's like, I'm not making this up. We did beat Michael Jordan down. Okay, okay, okay. Well, once he got past y'all, it was no looking back. It wasn't like y'all had a dynasty. Y'all didn't have a din...

It wasn't like y'all got 17 chips. You don't have 17 banners hanging in your arena in Detroit. Okay, well, you got four, six? We have three. Okay, what you got, four? Six? We have three. Thank you. And I was being kind. Yes, and two of those.

Okay, that's fine, but we still got 17. So what you telling me is we should have 19. We should have 19 is what you telling me. We gave y'all two just for charity. It was rigged, fake news. It was fake. Who's the most NBA championships now for franchise? I believe it's Boston. Is that who it is?

They got us this year. God bless y'all, but we'll be back. Miss Isaiah needed Larry Bird. He needed... They need... This is not about us. It's not about us, but it is about us. The whole point is the beauty of sports is seeing the athletes go on the journey. Peyton Manning needed Tom Brady.

Talk about it. Who Tom Manning needed Tom Brady. Okay? Needed him. Who Tom need? I mean, well, considering how, well, he needed Eli Manning. Yeah. We gotta keep Tom. But if we start, if we,

if we, it's almost like saying Detroit needed the Lakers. They didn't. And so we had Boston Celtics and we still do. They keep us humble. You need a, you need something that creates the inertia and the tension. the Lakers, they didn't. And so we had Boston Celtics and we still do, they keep us humble. You need something that creates the inertia and the tension. And the thing is now, and I think both players, even though they play different positions, both Angel Reese and Kaitlyn Clark, I would not believe either of them if they said they were not paying

attention to what the other one was doing. Especially, you know, we go through that stretch where Angel has like double, double, on double, double, on double, double. 14 straight, I think something is sick. And then Kaylyn is, you know, I think the last regular season game is we're recording this. She had a WNBA record, 19 assists.

Like they're every week, they're topping each other. They're watching. They're absolutely watching. And by the way, if they say they're not competing and anyone who's watching this suggesting that we're pitting them the way, if they say they're not competing and anyone who's watching this is suggesting that we're pitting them against another, then they shouldn't be playing pro. Like, because as a professional, your job is to compete at the highest of levels. Correct.

And you're checking what other people are doing. And you're also wanting to be better because you need to. Your point. It's a foil in which she needs. Angel Reese, how would you describe her as a foil? I mean, I think Angel, the girl, what I love about watching her play and even, even her demeanor in general, like, she is a ride or die. Like I look at how her teammates respond to her. And even though she's a rookie and they're senior and there's veteran leadership that she has on her team, I look at the relationship she has with Teaspoon, who was an amazing player, one of the grittiest, dynamic players the league has ever had.

Like, Teaspoon didn't play no games, right? And it's not surprising to me that she's like an amazing coach. But looking at the relationship she has with Kennedy Carter and Cardosa and like all the players, even the vets on that team, you could tell, you can even tell this at LSU, like she is the emotional thermometer. It's her and the way she carries herself. She's still got a lot to learn, of course, but she plays with a fire and a passion. Every single play that's hard to teach is very hard to teach. Kelsey Plumb, the two-time W NBA champion

with the Las Vegas Aces, gives her take on Angel Reese. People feel insecure. You have, like, a strong... black woman that's confident in herself and knows what she's talking about. And she's just saying what she feels. I think a lot of people were like, whoa, like how do I feel about this?

You never walk away from seeing her play and think she ain't given enough. You never walk away thinking that about her. So it's like the tenacity like just jumps off the page to me. And I think as she figures out her offensive identity, she gonna be a real problem. She already a problem now. she gonna be a real problem. She already a problem now. She gonna be a real problem.

And she's somebody you could definitely see winning an MVP one day, like getting all the awards. And now I think people wanna see how this turns out. They wanna see between her and Kaitlyn, who wins the championship first, who gets the MVP first. Who gets rookie of the year. Who gets rookie of the year. I mean, we're in that right now.

It's like, yeah. And you talk to players once they're out of the league, and then they're able to be more honest about how they felt in these moments. Again, they're going to probably give us the whole, oh, it's great to be considered. Like, nah, nah, nah, nah. They're trying to beat each other for this award.

I think let's talk about that. Let's talk about this rivalry. People may be afraid of that word and how the story will be couched, but the way in which you just described it a moment ago was that there is a need. There is a need for them to have someone to push them, to make them better.

And if that person is your rival, then you will be the best. That's great. That's fine. You will always end up in rare air if you find yourself constantly competing against the best. There's nothing wrong with that word rivalry to me. What is it about the new fans that need this rivalry, this divisiveness, this divide? Is it the temperature of the country that we live in right now? Yeah, I mean, everything feels very divided. But, you know, I don't know.

I think that the new fans, I think for, especially for people who may have been watching a little bit longer than some of them, they come in with such aggressive hot takes. Like, no, I mean, it's like the first day you start watching the NBA and you say, Anthony Edwards is the greatest NBA player ever. And it's like, what?

It's like, you know, you can watch in five minutes. Like, sir. Right. So they, when they do stuff like that, it's just kind of like, it grates the nerves a bit. But I'm happy they're there. And I do feel like, and I felt this way during the course of the season.

As it became more about ball, a lot of that calmed down. Right, as it became less about the drama, a lot of that calmed down. But what I would say, not just with new fans, but I would say sports fans in general, I think where they need to evolve is in how women compete. Because it's amazing to me that the same thing they clutched their little pearls over in

the WNBA, they eagerly cheer for it to see men do. They cheer for the rivalry. They cheer for the drama. They cheer for the pettiness. I'm like, I see it all the time. They cheer for it. One of the reasons I brought up Anthony Edwards, one of the reasons people love him is because he just don't give a you no way. Yeah. You don't care.

I mean, I mean, it got to the Olympics. His first one, he said, Oh no, I'm the star player. Yeah, I'm still the number one. Y'all might look at it different. I don't look at it. I'm like, the bra's still here, right? Yeah. He was like, no, no, no, no, no. He like, this is my team. Well, that fits into society. Society has a way in which women are supposed to conduct themselves, even on the basketball court. And so you have noticed that the labeling of the rivalry has such a negative connotation when it shouldn't because we love a rivalry in the NBA. Oh, I mean, when men are celebrated. In fact, what's the number one complaint you hear about the NBA?

They're too friendly. Not enough rivalries. Hear that. Banana boat. Hanging out. Yeah, exactly. Doing all the good things. Why they all train together. My NBA, they weren't friends. Exactly. Kobe would never. Kobe would never.

Michael Jordan would never. They couldn't stand each other. Right. It was beating Michael Jordan down. Heaven forbid. Yes. And then the ladies, you know, they engage. And I mean, because they're competitors, competitors, too. They show something similar.

It's like, what about the children? Screw them kids. OK. They'll be all right. Send them home. Yeah. You know what I'm saying? Because if it were if we were at an NBA game, you're like, that's how it's played, fellas. It's very much how if you have a son and a daughter,

your son can stay out all night, but you don't know where your daughter is. She needs to get home. You're gonna trigger me, Carrie. I can't even step out of my cell phone and you're going to trigger me. One of the biggest complaints about the new fans of the WNBA

is the slow acceptance to allow women to compete. But it's true. It's like they got women to, you know, to, uh, on the basketball court to sit around and braid each other's hair and talk about, you know, relationships and, and, and hold hands and sway. Like that's, I'm like, I don't get this. It's, it's been a physical league. Yes, you as a rookie, you gonna get it. Like, I don't care who you are, you gonna get it. Cause they wanna see all this fanfare you come in here. Is it real? Can you do it?

So when you watch people complain about the way in which Kaitlin Clark might be being treated on the court, do you find yourself helping people remember a WNBA of yesteryear? Oh yeah. I mean, I remember when the Kennedy Carter, when she gave Caitlin the, I mean, I feel like I'm diminishing it by calling it a hard foul. I mean, it was a cheap shot. It was a cheap shot.

It was not a basketball play. It was not a basketball play. But I had to remind him. I was like, okay, you know there was Maybe I mean, I mean for sure one of the greatest rookies the WNBA has ever had and some people be like the greatest rookie That WNBA has ever had they tried to kill Kata Parker like She got to a brawl What had become a physical game is greatly deteriorated. Pearson and Parker tied up with one another. They had her on the ground.

Had her on the ground. Yeah, Lisa Leslie ready to strike. They had Lisa Leslie. Candace Parker was on the ground, and someone was on top of her not telling her sweet nothings. Yeah. You're Detroit. Once again.

That's why Yankee. I can't have nice things there. We can't, boo. They tried to love Candace right on up, right? And she talks about all the time about those mini rookie moments that she had that year. Every single player in the WNBA could tell you about a moment where they had to prove it.

They was about that life, you know what I'm saying? I'm telling you, I'm telling you. My name is Sabrina Merchant, and I'm a staff writer at the Athletic covering women's basketball. My colleague Sabrina Merchant was on assignment for the women's national championship game in 2023. In fact, she covered the tournament and like many, she was surprised when Iowa and Caitlin Clark beat defending champions South Carolina. It's good to see you dear friend.

I find it interesting that we find this moment to have a conversation, because I almost feel as if you have always been leading the way on some of these stories, like stories that have been really, really juicy, for lack of a better word, really complicated, convoluted, controversial. And because it's been women's basketball,

no one's paid attention. You've reported on some very intense negotiations, breakups, cover-ups, and it just all went under, I guess, the radar. What's changed since the last time we talked in terms of women's basketball? So I think the last time we spoke was the 2023 WNBA Finals, which was... What a great moment that was. An incredible series, two superstars at the peak of their power is going at it. And think of all that has happened since then.

We just had two players, Katelyn Clark and Angel Reese, who came on to the national stage and decided that they were not going to step off of it. Let's go to October. You mentioned the 2023 WNBA Finals. Before the WNBA Finals, there was this little game where these two young ladies by the name of Caitlin Clark and Angel Reese met. Yeah. So I was covering the West Coast games in the tournament. So I was in Caitlin Clark's regional in Seattle in 2023. And great arena, Seattle, you know, it's where the Seattle Storm play. It's only women's basketball and hockey arena. And great arena, Seattle, you know, it's where the Seattle Storm play.

It's only women's basketball and hockey arena. And this is probably like 60% full during these Elite Eight and Sweet 16 games. Again, Elite Eight, Sweet 16 games. Like, you know, there's a right to play for the Final Four. Iowa's playing Louisville, Hailey Van Luth, big name too, that's 60% full here. So, you know, you could tell Caitlin Clark is a great player.

You know, she's in the running for National Player of the Year, ultimately ends up losing to Aliyah Boston, or maybe that was the year before, but regardless, great player. We're not talking national phenomenon yet. Then you get to the Final Four, you have Iowa versus undefeated South Carolina. And South Carolina comes in as the defending national champion, starting five that has lost maybe eight or nine games together in their last four years, undefeated throughout the regular season, presumably just two games away from the coordination. So Don Staley basically, we all thought going into this tournament, Don Staley and South Carolina Gamecocks were going to win. That's what it was a no-brainer.

No-brainer. Like if you picked against South Carolina in your bracket, you were just you're like, what are you doing? Exactly. You're you're going against Kobe. You're going against Jordan You're going against the best of the best. It's Tom Brady. What are you doing? Exactly So it's a nightcap on that Friday of the Final Four LSU has already beaten Virginia Tech which in hindsight is a dramatically more important game than we gave it credit for in the time but It's a dramatically more important game than we gave it credit for in the time. But, you know, Kaitlin leads Iowa to this upset of South Carolina and the energy in that building is unlike anything I could remember previously being present for just live. You know, the tension of like watching a Goliath get slain, right? Like you just don't see that very often.

And you know, naturally a team effort. We've seen Kate Martin go on to have a nice little stint with the Las Vegas Aces so far. Everybody can name players in Iowa now, right? Like Gabby Marshall, Monica Tonano. This is the Caitlin Clark show, and she puts up 40 points, another magnificent performance, and takes down the Giants, and it's, oh my God, what did we just witness?

What did we just witness? Is she the best thing ever? Is she the next Steph Curry? Is she the next Steph Curry? Is she the female Steph Curry? Exactly. All the questions people were asking. Because I was shocked that she beat Dawn Staley in South Carolina.

I was like, there was no game plan for her. Right. There was no game plan for Caitlin Clark. And it didn't seem like a fluke either. It looked like she was in complete control of that game, which is not something you expect to see against, again, undefeated defending national champion, like multiple players going to the pros,

best defense in the country, all of that. You name it, they had every accolade. And she walked in there. And Don Staley. And Don Staley was just the cherry on top of the ice cream. So she walks away from this game, and I know I'm thinking, I don't know what we've just witnessed. But everyone is talking about it.

And by everyone, I mean not just within our world. It's on national news, it is everywhere. People who don't watch women's basketball are telling you about what they think about these women. Yeah, it's the kind of thing where you get texts the next morning, like, oh my God, did you watch that game? Can you believe what just happened? As if professionally, this isn't what I have to do to be in person to cover that game.

Iowa has conquered South Carolina! Yeah, that was, I think that's when the switch flipped. After the break, my colleague and host of the Good Game podcast, Sarah Spain, shares her thoughts. Having so many conversations with different WNBA players and reporters over the years, one of the things that was standing in the way of people embracing the game is just that it looks a little different than professional men's basketball. And people who could get hung up on they're not dunking would choose that as the reason

that they didn't appreciate the game. Back in a moment. Is your country falling apart? Feeling tired, depressed, a little bit revolutionary? Consider this, start your own country. I planted the flag. I just kind of looked out of like, this is mine. I own this. It's surprisingly easy.

There are 55 gallons of water, 500 pounds of concrete. Everybody's doing it. I am King Ernest Emmanuel. I am the Queen of La Donia. I'm Jackson I, King of Capriburg. I am the Supreme Leader of the Grand Republic of Montonia. Be part of a great colonial tradition. Why can't I trade my own country? My forefathers did that themselves.

What could go wrong? No country willingly gives up their territory. I was making a rocket with the black powder, you know, with explosive warheads. Oh my God. What is that? Bullets. Bullets. We still have the off-road portion to go. Listen to Escape from Zakistan. And we're losing daylight fast. That's Escape from Z-A-Q-istan on the iHeart radio app, Apple podcasts,

or wherever you get your podcasts. Sup y'all. this is Questlove, and I'm here to tell you about a new podcast I've been working on with the Story Pirates and John Glickman called Historical Records. It's a family friendly podcast. Yeah, you heard that right. A podcast for all ages. One you can listen to and enjoy with your kids starting on September 27th. I'm going to toss it over to the host of Historical Records,

Nimini, to tell you all about it. Make sure you check it out. Hey, y'all, Nimini here. I'm the host of a brand new history podcast for kids and families called Historical Records. Historical Records brings history to life through hip hop. historical records brings history to life through hip hop. ["Hit The Road With My Heart"] -♪ Flash slam another one gone, bash bam another one gone,

the cracker the bat and another one gone, the tip of the cap is another one gone. Each episode is about a different inspiring figure from history, like this one about Claudette Colvin, a 15-year-old girl in Alabama who refused to give up her seat on the city bus nine whole months before Rosa Parks did the same thing. Check it! And it began with me, did you know, did you know? I wouldn't give up my seat. Nine months before Rosa, he was called a goldman. Get the kids in your life excited about history by tuning in to Historical

Records because in order to make history you have to make some noise. Listen to Historical Records on the iHeartRadio app, Apple podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Jenny Garth, Jana Kramer, Amy Robach, and TJ Holmes bring you I Do Part Two, a one-of-a-kind experiment in podcasting to help you find love again. If you didn't get it right the first time it's time to try try again as they guide you through this podcast experiment in dating Hey, I'm Jana Kramer as they say those that cannot do teach actually. I think I finally got it, right

So take the failures I've had the second or even third or whatever. Maybe the fourth time around. I'm Jenny Garth or even third or whatever, maybe the fourth time around. I'm Jenny Garth. 29 years ago, Kelly Taylor said these words, I choose me. She made her choice. She chose herself. When it comes to love, choose you first. Hi, everyone.

I'm Amy Robach. And I'm TJ Holmes. And we are, well, not necessarily relationship experts. If you're ready to dive back into the dating pool and find lasting love, finally, we want to help. Listen to I Do Part 2 on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen to podcasts.

Hi, I'm Marie. And I'm Sydney. And we're MESS. Well, not a mess, but on our podcast called Mess, we celebrate all things messy. But the gag is, not everything is a mess. Sometimes it's just living. Yeah, things like JLo on her third divorce. Living.

Girls trip to Miami. Mess. Ozempic. Messy, skinny living. Restaurants stealing a birthday cake. Mess. Wait, what flavor was the cake though? Okay, that's a good question.

Hooking up with someone in accounting and then getting a promotion. Living. Breaking up with your girlfriend while on Instagram Live. Living. This kind of mess. Yeah. Well, you get it. Got it.

Live, love, mess. Listen to Mess with Sydney Washington and Marie Faustin on iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcast, or wherever you get your podcasts. Hey there, I'm Dr. Maya Shankar, a cognitive scientist who studies human behavior. On my podcast, A Slight Change of Plans, I marry science and storytelling to better understand how to navigate the big changes in our lives. It was like a slow nightmare, you know, because every day you think, oh, surely tomorrow I'll be better. And I would dream of being better. At night, I would dream that my face was, quote unquote, normal or back to the way it was. And I'd wake up and there'd be no change. I also speak with scientists about

how we can be more resilient in the face of change. You can think of the adolescent brain as like this social R&D engine of our culture. That they're something that looks like a risky and idiotic to us is maybe their way of creatively trying to solve the problem of having social success and fewer of the things that bring you social failure. Listen to a slight change of plans on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen to podcasts. For a lot of sports radio and sports TV, you need to have a take. And if you're not watching a lot of games, and you don't know a lot about the players or the sport, your take doesn't have any legs.

If you can just say, I like Caitlin Clarke, I don't like Angel Reed, or should women be this competitive, or are they trying to take her out? You can have a conversation on your show and you can get people fired up about it without ever having to do the work. And that's sometimes a good thing,

not for the product that comes out, but for the coverage coming out of it. It was really good for women's college basketball and eventually the WNBA that people had this thing, this rivalry that they could create takes out of. I'm sure you've heard analysts on television say, welcome to the new fans of the WNBA. I'm sure I've said it many a times. But if I'm honest, I don't know that much of us really know anything

about these ladies off the court, especially Caitlin Clark. Here's Sarah Spain of the Good Game podcast. All you need to know is she's jacking up shots from basically half court. She's hitting logo threes on the regular and she's doing it in clutch moments. And that alone opened the door ajar for people to step in and appreciate her play and then start watching the rest of the game and say, Oh, this is good. But

that was the ultimate sort of backbreaker for that argument that women weren't worth watching because they couldn't dunk was like, Oh wait, she's doing something that guys aren't doing. Well, to that to that same idea, everyone says she plays like Steph Curry. She has every as Steph Curry, I think is arguably one of the most impactful players in basketball in terms of his every man's game. And people have called her every woman's game, if you will. It's very common.

It feels like I can do it. She's a girl next door. All of these things feel very marketable. When you look at the WNBA, do you feel that's a slight on the women who've already built this league for so many years? I think the way we talk about Caitlin Clark can be in good faith talking about the ways that she is appealing. And the same way that we could talk about Steph Curry being appealing because you felt

like watching him like, oh, I could do that, which is very different than watching Michael Jordan or Shack or LeBron James. And then there's ways that we talk about Caitlin Clark that are almost obtuse with intention so as to disregard the ways that we haven't respected the existing players in the WNBA over the decades, particularly players of color, players who are masculine presenting, players who are openly LGBTQIA+, right? When we are intentional about promoting and singling out a straight white girl next door as the face of a league that has been predominantly black,

we have to acknowledge why that's happening. And if you look across the landscape of women's sports, so often what has become considered palatable in the eyes of many who want to place women in specific lanes is the sports that have predominantly white athletes who have aesthetically, generally pleasing body types and who we can sort of infantilize as your little girl all grown up, right? Just the perfect little role models. It's tennis, it's soccer, right? And those sports are changing, by the way. And we're witnessing and getting through the issues

of the changing faces and representatives for those sports in ways that are worth discussing too. But in basketball in particular, when you find that the focus is on Caitlin Clark, Paige Becker, Sue Bird, at the expense of other players. Because it's not to say that they're not deserving, but it is to say that who else has been contributing at the highest level, who else is worthy of that praise, those marketing deals, those sponsorships that we're not paying attention to and why. Let's be honest about it. Kaitlin Clark is a game changer, and she's brought so many new eyes to the WNBA.

In episode two, we talk to the people who know Caitlin Clark intimately. We'll also hear from the game changer herself. Next time on Naked Sports, who is Caitlin Clark? When you watch her play her vision and her understanding of the game, the game is literally slowed down in her mind, you know? And she sees these passing angles that even the passer or the receiver of the pass doesn't even see.

And you're watching in the stands or on the side of the court and you don't always even see it as a coach or a fan until it happens. And so just to see firsthand how she sees the game and it's kind of hard to explain because even as we watch her, you can't get in her mind but the game is literally slower for her than other people.

I mean, I have known Caitlin since she was in eighth grade. I've been following her. We had been recruiting her since then because we knew she was such a special talent. And then it came time for her senior year and her to make this decision. And she grew up in a Catholic high school, very strong Catholic family, and so Notre Dame, of course, was a logical decision for her to make. But her heart wasn't there. And she went on her visit and she came home and was really, just didn't feel good about it after she'd committed to them. And so had somebody called me up to find out, would I still be interested in having her? Well, of course so.

So she did end up calling Notre Dame and declining and then called me up. I can still remember where I was. My husband and I were out having dinner. She called me up and said, now if you'd have me, if you still have a spot available, I'd love to be a Hawkeye.

And this was my first season doing the women's college game. And I go back and we're watching a little bit And I see her pull up 35 feet or whatever it was and I'm like, oh my gosh This is just this is crazy and the ratings are through the roof nowhere near where they're at now But for that time shattered records for us on ESPN and that game was on ABC And so people are like all this Caitlin Clark player she's fun whatever well Caitlin continues to get better and better and then her moments become more and more viral and all of a sudden you have people who are seeing clips of her and they're saying oh my gosh who is this

they're seeing the insane no look passes they're seeing the downpour passes but more than anything else at this moment what they're seeing is they're seeing someone pull up off the dribble from 30, 35, 40 feet and just having these incredible performances. Someone who's leading the nation and scoring and assisting over and over again. The mythical mastery of Caitlin Park continues. I think that's part of what makes Caitlin so compelling to watch is that you can see everything on her face. She doesn't hide anything. She is incredibly emotional throughout the course of the game. And that makes her a more interesting figure on television and in person.

But if you're only tuning in for the national title game, you think, oh, this poor girl from Iowa is getting bullied by, you know, the big bad LSU girls, which couldn't be farther from the truth, because as Katelyn said repeatedly after the game, like she'd been dishing out the same stuff for five previous games while she was winning. But like you said, the optics make people uncomfortable.

There's a racial element which, I mean, we let it slide on the men's side, right? If a male athlete taunts another male athlete, it doesn't really matter if they're black and white, it's just two men going at one another. But there was an extra layer because they're women, because we don't let women show their emotions like that in public. They were not given that same level of grace. I remember Kaylyn Clark going viral for like logo threes and step back threes. And it was like, oh, she plays like Steph. That's what I was hearing. And I was like, oh, like I hadn't seen somebody in a minute shooting from that deep.

I hadn't seen, like I've seen players really good, but logo threes was her thing. And I was like, I don't remember Iowa being good. And I was like, oh, LSU is pretty good. And I remember they beat Iowa. And I know, I remember Caitlin Clark was really braggadocious. Like she was, she was doing this. She was, she was like was she was like she was playing

with a lot of emotion, which is cool. I love it. And then when Angel Reese and them played and Angel Reese put it back in her face, I was like, okay, like this is competition the way I like it. And then like when I was watching the game, it wasn't that big. I was all this is great. She pointed at a ring. She did all this. And then like I feel like immediately that day it became like Angel getting called classless and I was like, and this is for me was like, here we go again. As I remember, like Tom Brady, he takes off his helmet and throws it. He's passionate. That's Brian does it.

Well, they got mad at this too. Yeah, they got mad at this, but they didn't get mad at Tom. Tom is always passionate. Des is he's losing his cool. Oh, damn Beckham loses his cool. So it's it's quite often that black athletes and white athletes do the same thing. And it's looked at very differently. And with Angel Reese, I was like, here we here we go.

Like, so as a black person, I'm like, now I got the ride for you because I got to defend black women. I'm going to be on your side. So that's what I remember. Like it became, it becoming a huge, huge thing. And I remember they played the next year and I was, I remember saying, you know, I did make my joke. I was like race war two is happening.

Would Caitlin Clark be such a supernova if there were no Angel Reese? I don't know. Who is Caitlin Clark? That's episode two of Making of a Rivalry. The Making of a Rivalry, Caitlin Clark versus Angel Reese is a Be Honest production in partnership with the Black Effect Podcast Network and iHeart Women's Sports.

Written and executive produced by me, Carrie Champion. Supervising producer is Arlene Santana. Produced by Jacquees Thomas. Sound design and mastered by Duane Crawford. Associate producer, Olubusayil Shabby. Naked Sports is a part of the Black Effect Podcast Network and iHeart Media. Hey everybody, if you're new to Naked Sports, welcome to the podcast. And for those who've been with us since season one, thank you for right now. We're kicking off season four with this six episode docu-series that you're listening

to right now. And after that, Naked Sports will continue to live at the intersection of sports, politics, and culture. We're covering all things from the presidential race to the WNBA Rookie of the Year contest. This season will be bold, as you can already tell, no holds barred, but also we'll bring you that same vulnerable storytelling technique that makes our show so very unique.

We appreciate you for being here and thank you all for the support. We'll talk to you next week. Hey, this is Justin Richmond, host of the Broken Record podcast. Every week, I or my co-host, Leah Rose, sit down with the artists you love to get unparalleled creative insight. Our new series is looking at one of the most influential jazz labels ever, Blue Note Records. You'll hear from artists like legendary bassist Ron Carter, singer-songwriter Noah Jones,

and guitarist Julian Lodge. Listen on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen to podcasts. Hey y'all, Nimmini here. I'm the host of a brand new history podcast for kids and families called Historical Records. Executive produced by Questlove, The Story Pirates, and John Glickman, Historical Records brings history to life through hip hop. -♪ Flash slam, another one gone, bash bam, another one gone, the cracker to bat and another one gone,

a tip but a cap, there's another one gone. Each episode is about a different inspiring figure from history, like this one about Claudette Colvin, a 15-year-old girl in Alabama who refused to give up her seat on the city bus nine whole months before Rosa Parks did the same thing. Check it. And if you came with me, did you know, did you know

I wouldn't give up my seat? Nine months before Rosa, it was Claudette Colvin. Get the kids in your life excited about history by tuning in to Historical Records because in order to make history, you have to make some noise. Listen to Historical Records on the iHeartRadio app, Apple podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Hey everyone. I'm Madison Packer, a pro hockey veteran going on my 10th season in New York.

And I'm Anya Packer, a former pro hockey player and now a full Madison Packer stan. Anya and I met through hockey and now we're married and moms to two awesome toddlers, ages two and four. And we're excited about our new podcast, Moms Who Puck, which talks about everything from pro hockey to professional women's athletes, to raising children, and all the messiness in between. So listen to Moms Who Puck on the iHeartRadio app,

Apple podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Welcome to Gracias Come Again, a podcast by HoneyGerman, where we get real and dive straight into todo lo actual y viral. We're talking música, los premios, el chisme, and all things trending in my cultura. I'm bringing you all the latest happening in our entertainment world and some fun and impactful interviews with your favorite Latin artists, comedians, actors, and influencers. Each week we get deep and raw life stories, combos on the issues that matter to us,

and it's all packed with gems, sponge, straight up comedia, and that's a song that only Nuestra Gente can sprinkle. Listen to Gracias Come Again on the iHeart Radio app, Apple Podcast, or wherever you get your podcast. The 2025 iHeart Podcast Awards are coming. This is the chance to nominate your podcast for the industry's biggest award. Submit your podcast for nomination now at iHeart.com slash podcast awards. But hurry, submissions close on December 8th. Hey, you've been

doing all that talking, it's time to get rewarded for it. Submit your podcast today at iHeart.com slash podcast awards. That's iHeart.com slash podcast awards.