The Breakfast Club - Out Of Context: Big Sean And Charlamagne Tha God

Episode Date: August 2, 2024

In This Episode of "Out of Context" Big Sean discusses exactly who he is in 2024 as a man and a rapper. What type of clarity has fatherhood given him. How his mental health issues may have impacted his music career. How he plans to break the cycle of generational curses. Settling financial issues with Kanye, does he belong in the big 3 convo, do Kendrick Lamar and him really have issues and more!!See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

Hey, I'm Jack Peace Thomas, the host of a brand new Black Effect original series, Black Lit, the podcast for diving deep into the rich world of Black literature. Black Lit is for the page turners, for those who listen to audiobooks while running errands or at the end of a busy day. From thought-provoking novels to powerful poetry, we'll explore the stories that shape our culture. Listen to Black Lit on the Black Effect Podcast Network, iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Hi, I'm Marie. And I'm Sydney. And we're Mess. Well, not a mess, but on our podcast called Mess, we celebrate all things messy. But the gag is, not everything is a mess. Sometimes it's just living. Yeah, things like J-Lo on her third divorce. Living.

Girl's trip to Miami. Mess. Breaking up with your girlfriend while on Instagram Live. Living. It's kind of a mess. Yeah. Well, you get it. Got it?

Live, love, mess. Listen to Mess with Sydney Washington and Marie Faustin on iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Hey, y'all. Niminy here. I'm the host of a brand new history podcast for kids and families called Historical Records. Executive produced by Questlove, The Story Pirates, and John Glickman, Historical Records brings history to life through hip-hop. Each episode is about a different inspiring figure from history, Like this one about Claudette Colvin, a 15-year-old girl in Alabama who refused to give up her seat on the city bus

nine whole months before Rosa Parks did the same thing. Check it. And it began with me. Did you know, did you know? I wouldn't give up my seat. Nine months before Rosa, it was Claudette Colvin. Get the kids in your life excited about history by tuning in to Historical Records. Because in order to make history, you have to make some noise.

Listen to Historical Records on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. You check the mics? You good? Yeah. I do these in black and white to make You good? Yeah. How you doing, dude? I do these in black and white to make people focus. Yeah. I like that. Big Sean.

You my bro. What's up? How you doing, man? See you in a minute. The God. How you feel? I'm blessed, black, and highly favored, man. Same. You know, I like to set an intention before I do these conversations. So my intention for this conversation is for everyone to get clarity on who you are as a man and rapper in 2024.

Oh, man. I'm excited for this thing. All right. Yeah. How are you, first and foremost? I'm doing pretty well. Life has been a lot lately, though. I'm not going to lie.

It's been pretty overwhelming, kind of stressful. But definitely, like I said said i cannot complain bro like when you when you think about the grand scheme of things we me and you and a lot of us like are on the blessed spectrum absolutely we're on the the positive side of what's going on in the world you know compared to like people not knowing where they're gonna sleep at people getting bombed on you know losing family members kids you know people getting executed everything that's all of these tragedies wars conflict that's going on in the world going on you know in our hometowns every other week i hear about like somebody getting like oh this person got killed or this person you know some some so it's just like i always keep

that in perspective and you know an interesting concept that i was talking to someone the other day is i was like man you know say we get this opportunity while we're in our bodies only our souls this is our only time for us to experience like some type of friction you know what i'm saying i'm not even trying to get deep but if you think about it when we leave our bodies in this quick blip of a life we may not experience pain anymore might be peace it might be might not be depression anxiety we won't be able to feel touch fuck eat sleep tired that may not even none of that may be a factor so I was talking um with this doctor the other day who's very spiritual and she was like yeah I mean this may be our only time

as souls to progress right and to evolve and to feel and to have some friction right so I was like damn if that's the case you know when we are feeling this uncomfortable feeling like anxiety depression all these things all these ups and downs we go through like i wonder how much of a privilege it is even just to feel that shit i think that's the point right just enjoy the current moment period because you don't know what's next a lot of times when we say enjoy the moment we're thinking about you now, like what we're doing right now. But no, enjoy this moment of a human experience that we have. Yeah.

You know, because I feel like if you're just like comfortable, if you're good, if you're just satisfied all the time, then there's no room for growth. You know, I always feel like when you're down, when you feel off or when you feel like you're not in alignment, at least you have an opportunity to grow from that. And I feel like that's something to even be proud of recognizing that instead of just like complacent where you are. You know what I love? I asked you, how are you? You gave me an honest answer. No, but that's real because people will be like, oh, I'm good.

You know, in therapy, they taught me to not just say that. They taught, I don't know, like they teach you to really say how you're doing. So, I mean, like I said, I said, I'm writing my first book. You know what that's like, writing a book. I'm just basically finished with it. Finishing this album still and just like, and still experiencing that new, that feeling of fatherhood. Even though my son is, you know, a year and eight months, it's like, it feels new still. Oh, we're going to get through all of that.

Yeah, yeah. Let me ask you, who is Shawn Michael Leonard Anderson in 2024? Man, I'm somebody who, bro, I'm just trying to figure out myself, who I am sometimes. I have to take time to reconnect with myself and what I like because I got so disconnected from that. So in 2024, I'm a father. I'm a black man, a proud black man who understands that they don't understand much. And I love anime. You know, that's like one of my escapes that I get to experience is like, getting into like a new anime. I'm about to dive into Evangelions. I do not, I did Naruto,

Dragon Balls, like one of my favorites, Akira, Demon Slayer, My Hero Academia. Those are the things that even just growing up, and when I got into a point of around 2019, 2020, when I hit a big wall of depression that we could talk about, it's like I lost connection with who I was. But I do know that I'm a father, anime lover, a writer, and someone who loves to think things through. And I'm just sitting in the seat watching life on the screen happen, you know? So who is the rapper Big Sean in 2024? The rapper Big Sean is somebody who is experimenting still. And I feel like I'm getting sharper and better as I go along.

I feel like I'm mastering my voice more. I've been taking like vocal lessons. I feel like I'm mastering what I want to talk about more and still accepting that I want to have fun sometimes too and just like rap to just find different rhyme schemes. It ain't always gotta be about something, but I also love saying what's on my heart, you know? And that's why I'm excited about this album because I do have songs that explore in-depth feelings

or that are very focused and that are important. As a rapper, I feel like I'm at a place where I'm testing my own boundaries too. I'm exploring because I feel like I am an amazing lyricist and I feel like that. I haven't shown the world that fully to my capabilities because of the amount of music that I don't drop or the amount how time goes so fast and I don't get a chance to catch up with it and all of a sudden two, three years go by and i got hundreds of songs that i don't even know if they'll ever see the light of day so you know i'm not to be along with the answer but as a rapper like i said i'm just i'm still figuring it out but i'm definitely

somebody who has a perspective or something to say you know i asked you those uh those two questions because i saw the clarity psa and you said something in it and i'm paraphrasing if you are feeling stuck are you feeling you're not in alignment with who you are, that can lead to anxiety and depression and all these things that can be a big waste of your time. And it often feels like Big Sean, the rapper, is not in alignment with Sean Anderson, the man. And Sean Anderson, the man, is not in alignment with Big Sean, the rapper. So what are your thoughts on yourself? That's a pretty good analysis. It's not that I'm not aligned. It's that I'm a multifaceted person.

So it's kind of like the records that I do where I'm just popping shit, having fun. It's like, that's a part of me, you know? And so is, you know, I know you've heard this song, but like a song I got called Break the Cycle with Charlie Wilson and a song Boundaries. That's a part of me, too. And that's the beauty of it.

I like this album because I split it up into four different dynamics. So to me, it's the most aligned that I've ever been musically. That Big Sean and Sean Anderson have been musically aligned because it's really all different aspects of myself. You know what I'm saying? So I can see from a listener's standpoint how they could think that. Because it's like you're talking about like some shit that's like not so meaningful. Like I could just be like rapping.

I don't know what's an example. Like shooting my shot. I got to get it. Shout out, I hit it. I'm fully committed. Like, hey, which even songs like that, like Bounce Back, I hit it, I'm fully committed. Like, hey, which, even songs like that, like, Bounce Back, I still kind of keep, like, a little bit of meaning to them still,

you know what I mean? Like, even the high-energy songs, like, a level of motivation, just because that's, like, rooted in me, but at the same time, I like having just fun sometimes and just talking my shit and just, like, freestyling, going hard as Dr. Umar on White Women. White Women.

It just, you know, it's fun to me still. And I feel like I don't ever want to lose that aspect of having fun with it. Yeah. I want to stay on the Clarity PSA because I feel like that was very slept on, right? In the Clarity PSA, you also say we're all probably dealing with time moving so fast and trying to keep up with ourselves. And I agree with that. But that could be even harder if we don't even know what version of ourselves we are trying to keep up with. So in 2024, can these two versions of yourself peacefully coexist?

Yeah, absolutely. Okay. And it is a conflicting thing because when you say two versions, I think there's like 10 versions of me that you know i kind of like always trying to align with or you know all of these different voices and parts of your soul like i said i got like a multi-layered personality we all do yeah yeah i do think to answer your question yes absolutely and it's and it's coming more and more into alignment you know and i realized that yeah time is moving fast for all of us so it's like you can't be sitting here thinking that that person's always going to be here this moment's always going to be here i remember even with nipsey like luckily on my

last time i got i got to get a song off with him that we had started when he was alive and then he passed away and i still didn't finish it. But my point was, I always thought I was going to be able to finish it. Absolutely. You know, when I ran into Kobe on New Year's and he was like, man, I love your music, bro. Da da da. Like, we got a chance to really link and talk. And he was like, I'll come through and hear your new album, which was Detroit 2 at the

time. I'll come through and check it out in an event. You know, I'm like, hell yeah. So I'm at the studio like, let me just, it's not ready yet. It's not ready yet. And then, bam, you know, you just never know what family members, you know, anyone who's always going to be there. So it's like take advantage of your time now. And that's been my biggest battle is because when I live in a moment, the anxiety comes from me trying to live in another moment at the same time. So it's like, I realize that, of course, I'm overwhelmed because I'm in a moment right now.

You're not even taking advantage of the full moment or appreciating it. You know what I'm saying? So I know I keep giving these long-winded answers. This is a long-form conversation. It's fine. Cool, cool, cool. Yeah. Even with the Nipsey thing, that wasn't all you, though, because Nipsey was notorious

for not finishing records. It would take a while to finish a record, from's just a art that's an artist thing too you know it's an artist thing but and even he hit me up like yo come to my video shoot his last video he shot and I was he hit me up at the last minute but I was like damn by the time I get there I should have just went bro like and even last time I like saw him at a event and he was like nervous about the Grammys. And I was telling him, he was like, man, you know, what if I don't win? I'm like, bro, you, I was like, you got next time, you know, and all this is just like, those are kind of things that I've been realizing that is always not true, you know,

and that you may not always have time. So take advantage of it. You know, writing a book is something I always wanted to do eventually, but I was like, no, I needed to do it right now before, while I have the opportunity. That's right. You know, you know, also in the clarity video. I really like that you fuck with the clarity video. No, I do. I do. I've been trying.

I did that with such intention for people to realize how important it is to be clear and intentional and how much it affects your family and your crew or like breaking a cycle, you know, or like doing all these things. And that's why you had the circle. Yeah. You said like happiness. Yeah. What else was it?

Pressure and focus. And that I made that up. You know, I drew that and just like animated it and brought it to life because that's what my life was feeling like. Yeah. Tyler, the creator says in the Clarity video, he says to you, rapping is your superpower. Putting the words together is your superpower.

But then also he says it's your greatest flaw. Right. Did he expound on that off camera? And how did you interpret his words? Well, I could have easily edited out that last part, but I wanted to keep it honest. I didn't want to make it look like just a highlight reel for Big Sean, right? So it's like, I interpreted it. Yeah, he did build on it, but sometimes, I don't want to misquote him, but I think he meant that sometimes it's not all about the fucking raps, man.

Sometimes it's like you can over-rap something, too, or you can be so over people's heads or lyrical, you know what I'm saying? But when he came to the studio, he was just like, bro, you're just... He was giving me so many compliments off-camera, like, bro, your lyrics, your this. And I think he's incredible, too, obviously, like an all-around musician and rapper

and lyricist and all that too so how did you interpret his words for you when he said rapping is your superpower it's also your greatest flaw uh i just interpret it as his opinion really like i don't think it's my greatest flaw i think it's the reason I'm here you know it's the reason I've been able to live the life I live but I understood where he was coming from though like I see what he's saying like it could be it can be interpreted a lot of ways like it could be like you're real good at rapping but maybe the amount and high level that you rap at, maybe you can execute on other parts of your artistry as well. Maybe it's like take some of the focus off the rapping because you're so good at it and maybe do apply it to other parts, something like that.

You know, years ago you said that making music became a burden for you. How long were you in that mental space? Do you feel like that might have hurt your career in any way? Yeah, yeah. So since the beginning, let's go back to that real quick. I'm going to get to that. When I was 11 years old and I rapped for my mom for the first time, right? And it was like gangster rap was like the most popular, you know what I'm saying?

50 Cent. Both our neighbors sold drugs. Like my mom, my mom was kind of like a Motown parent like we would listen to like Stevie Wonder Diana Ross Isley Brothers you know Marvin Gaye and so I literally seen like the wildest shit happen around my house you know what I'm saying coming home from school the DEA coming out from behind the cars pointing their guns at us thinking we were our neighbors you know what I'm saying? Like, just wild-ass shit. So when I wanted to be a rapper at 11 years old,

I didn't realize, like, my mom being the first person, how critical of a moment that was, me rapping for her, not shutting it down. Her being like, oh, man, keep going. Like, oh, you're so good at it, you know what I'm saying? And I just appreciate her for that aspect of just accepting me and nurturing me and just going further in the debt, paying for my studio sessions, driving me from Detroit to Chicago and back to work with producers. And my whole family is a family of scholars, meaning that like they all got degrees,

they all are teachers and all sorts of stuff like that and I was the first person to say I want to do music you know what I'm saying it's something a little bit different and my mom being such a dreamer herself she was the only one who really supported me and I used all my college grant like I used all the bonds that my grandma saved up for me and spent it all on this dream that I had you know and spent it all and more. So when we talk about from 11 years old, me treating it like it was my job, I treated it like it was my job. I would like press up CDs, shot my first album covering Sears and like would press up CDs.

Like I treated it like it was a job and just for because it was to me. And I don't know why, but I really later found out that, that it was my purpose. And I didn't, and I didn't know what a purpose was back then for real. Like I knew the word, but I didn't know the meaning of it, but it was like,

it meant, it meant so much to me. So I would do things that I hated fucking doing anyway. Like I hated battle rapping. I don't have a battle rap voice. I don't have like that Meek Mill ass, Benny Siegel ass, motherfuckers battle. Yeah, yeah, yeah. You know, I got like a, I had, especially then when I was younger, I had like a thin ass voice.

So I had to make up for it by being like clever and witty and metaphorical and shit, right? And it was just way harder for me. So anyway, I did all these things I didn't want to do because I believed in this dream so much. Right. So every, by the way, everyone's saying it's never going to happen. It's not going to happen. It's not going to happen. Your mom wasn't saying that. My mom wasn't saying that. She was the one who told me, I remember one of my English teachers, I'm not going to put her name on blast, but someone can figure it out. Who told me like, yo, like you got good grades. Make

sure you apply to college because this music thing, like that's not even a reliable thing. Like you're, you know, you messed around, throw your whole life away doing this. Right. So it's like, okay. I'm telling people like, no, I got it though. You know, I could see it. I always could see it and feel it. I just, I knew it was going to happen. I just didn't know how it was going to happen. You know, and sometimes we don't have to worry about the how to's. So I didn't forget your question. I'm going to get to it. So anyway, I do, I meet Ye, I rap for him. Years go by without anything happening, but I knew it was going to happen because I was into, had just got into

manifesting and reading all these books and I saw it. I saw me being signed to Good Music. All this stuff. Even though he got back and was like, I'm not looking for any new artists. I knew it was going to happen. Did everything I could to make it happen. And kept my relationships going. Anyway, we could talk about that more. But that was the first time I dealt with depression.

And we could dive back into that. So anyway, I finally make this happen. Do the freshman cover. All this stuff. Drop these freshman cover, all this stuff, drop these mixtapes, one mixtape, another mixtape, another mixtape. I do the BET Cypher with good music and I get 100,000 followers overnight, literally.

Then I work on my first album, get the first album going. The first album is successful. The second album isn't as successful. But why? Because I think I need to return back to my mixtape roots. So I do a Detroit mixtape, which was fire. Then I'm doing all the Cruel Summer ideas as well. Like just helping behind the scenes, like Mercy, Click, all these different ideas that I'm literally coming up with. Plus people stole your flow. Plus people stole my flow.

So you didn't even really. Plus people stole your flow. Plus people stole my flow. So you didn't even really get to eat off your flow. Yeah, and all me, the host, shut the fuck up, all of that, right? And I'm spreading myself thin, Paul. So it's like, then I do my album and it's like, oh, the album isn't as good as it could be, whatever. And it wasn't because I was listening to so many people

saying, you gotta keep your foot on their neck, you gotta keep your foot on their neck. This is an opportunity, all this stuff. They're right, but I completely lost sense of who I was. That's when it became a burden. That's when it became a burden. Then I dug deep because people were counting me out

and I made Dark Sky Paradise. To me, that was my first time where I tuned it out and just focused on me and what I wanted to make. And that was one of my biggest and most successful albums. And then after that, I fell back into the rhythm of everyone being like, oh shit, now you really hustling. Now you got to stay on that neck, man. So it was like, all right, shit. So I did an EP with Jhené, 2088.

Then I did another album, I Decided, which came right on the heels of 2088. Then I did another album with Metro Bloomin' which I completely freestyled and I was literally burnt the fuck out at that point. I literally was touring, burnt the fuck out, just tired on Adderall at the same time. So that completely would have my brain fried. I was not prescribed that shit. So my dopamine was non-existent. The dopamine that your brain naturally produces when you take synthetic drugs and anything like that, like all sorts of drugs. It just like, I'm not saying I was taking all sorts of drugs, but I was taking Adderall. But I'm just letting you know, all type of drugs do that. It's like it produces this artificial amount of dopamine to where you can be hyperproductive, but it's not sustainable.

And then you'll crash out. And it made me hit a wall that it was either going to fall on me or I had to climb over. And that's when I fell back completely from everything. That's when it was hard for me to do a conference call. You know what I'm saying? Damn. Right? So that is when from like 2018 to 2020 that I was just like, I was just off. I was like, had the worst anxiety about posting a picture on Instagram, bro. You know, just weird shit that you shouldn't even be thinking about so much. And I just was.

Well, that's what anxiety is. Yeah. And you probably get more anxiety because you're like, yo, I prayed for this I got it and I'm feeling like I don't appreciate it well it's confusing yeah it's confusing because you're feeling like you don't appreciate it and you feel like why do I feel like this when I've literally exceeded my own my dream was to have a song on the radio and to move my mom out of out of. So it's like everything else has been an extreme bonus, right? So it was just was very confusing. And then I realized that I just was so out of touch with myself that I had to reconnect with myself. And I linked with like people who helped me do

that. My therapist, I linked with this lady, Marie Diamond, who really helped me like tap in spiritually with myself. And like and like bro I would go like take trips to just connect with myself and like meditate and like get spiritual and connect with God more and like I started working out I started just eating better taking care of myself and just slowly returning back to who I was trying things that I didn't know if I liked or like I would go to the gun range like oh shit I've jumped out of jumped out of plane you know what I'm saying? Skydiving. I did a lot

of things just reconnecting with myself. And it was very, very necessary. I want to salute to your mom, too, because what you explained, there's a therapist named Elliot Connie. He does solution-focused therapy, and he talks about the astronaut theory. It's like when your kid comes to you and your kid says, hey, I want to be

an astronaut, you're going to be like, man, you ain't never going to space. Ain't nobody kid comes to you and your kid says, hey, I want to be an astronaut. You don't be like, man, you ain't never going to space. Ain't nobody going to space. You say, oh, OK, how are we going to do that? Let's do it. Yeah. Let's figure out how to do it. That's what she did for you. Man.

And it's just like it makes me emotional because it's like, damn, it could have went either way. You know? And there was definitely times where I gave up faith in myself, you know, another time. So we could go back a little bit just to answer the question when that burnout happened of 2019. That was my second experience with, like, depression. And it made sense because there were substances involved, too. When I say that, like the Adderall or or even alcohol a lot of people don't realize that alcohol is a depressant hell yeah so if you got any type of mental if you like you know any anxiety any depression it's not an instantaneous thing it could be weeks later that that shit has an

effect on you like that you know so anyway we go back to when i didn't go to college right so let me paint that picture i didn't go to college because I rapped for Ye in my junior year of high school, for people who don't know. And I was a telemarketer at the time. I was cashing my check. It's like a rap fairy tale story, bro. I didn't cast my check, got down to the radio station that I had been doing a show there for a year and a half already called the Friday Night Cipher. The Friday Night Cipher was a show where you would battle rap people. Whoever wins the battle rap will get to rap over instrumentals on air. So I did that for a year straight. So I had all these raps, you know what

I'm saying? So by the time when Ye's promoting his album, Late Registration, my boy like, yo, go to the station, rap for Ye, blah, blah, blah, right? I end up downtown. I lied and said I left my phone in the station because I was there the night before. They let me in. I end up downtown. I lied and said I left my phone in the station because I was there the night before. They let me in. I ended up rapping for him and I had the CD that I've been selling around school at the time and I had a press kit, bro. I was like very prepared, overly prepared. That was JLB? No, that wasn't JLB. It was Hot 107. Back then it was 105.9. It's the Hot Station. I'm tripping right now.

Anyway, I rap for him as we're walking out the station. He's like, yo, I don't got time. He running late. He had been there for a while. I'm like, bro, last call, my shit, blah, blah, blah, your story. That's the only time I ever cry listening to a song type shit. He's like, all right, man, you're going to guilt trip. You can rap while we're walking out.

I ended up rapping for like 10 minutes straight. Like we ended up at the entrance slash exit of the station and he's just listening to me. Right. So anyway, time goes on. He, you know, eventually I go to my senior year of high school. No word from him, but we talk, I'm talking to Don C here and there and Don C been keeping in contact. Yo, what up, Big Sean? Yo, we really, yo, we banging that new song. You know, shout out my boy Don C. Like, I do a very good Don C impression. But, you know, Ye was blowing up at the time, so I didn't understand then, but I understand now the spotty communication.

So anyway, we finally get the word that they want to sign um and to make a long story short i ended up like turning down all i graduated high school to 3.7 gpa and i turned down all the scholarships i had to michigan state and my family is a ufm family but i got accepted to michigan state and had like a lot of scholarships, so I was going to go to Michigan State. All my friends go to college. I'm still at the crib where I grew up since I was eight years old in the same room. At first, I'm like, oh shit, okay, he said he wanted to give me a record deal. It's happening. A year goes by, bro. In that year, I have such a crazy deep depression because all my friends are hitting me up every couple weeks.

Yo, what's up, man? What's up with the music shit? I ain't even hear nothing about it. My beautiful grandma would have Sunday dinner every Sunday. Every Sunday, what's going on with the music, baby? It was just hard, bro. I still feel scarred from those times because you feel like a loser i felt like a loser and like the girl i was dating went to michigan

state and i would meet when i met her family she was like yeah he's a rapper and they would be like like okay you know they thought that she could do better and it was just like it was like a test of my faith and you know when you when you got that faith you got to walk on that invisible bridge of faith you don't see it but you just know it's there right so anyway man a year goes by and i realized okay i gotta be productive so all these books my mom been forcing on me the seven spiritual laws of success asking it is given by esther and jerry hicks the four, The Alchemist, all of these type books.

Classics. I just fucking, I'm like, let me just dive into these books out of desperation for real. And I started meditating and I just started seeing it, bro. And then I was like, okay, I have found this list before I rapped for Ye that I wrote down because I was lightweight into it, but I just was busy. I was in high school in high school and I saw this list where it said good music number one number two Rockefeller number three Shady Records number four Grand Hustle number five Interscope like I just had a list of like these are the top five labels that I want to be signed to. And Good Music was number one.

And I saw that, and I was like, yo, I'm on that path. It was like one of them omens. There was just one little thing I needed to realize, no, I can do this, bro. I met Ye and Rapform, and he said he wanted to sign me. So I just manifested and visualized the paperwork coming in all this time. But in that time, bro, in that one year, i was so depressed that i just wanted to give up bad and i give up on life or just the rap just on the rap so of course you when you depress you always think about killing yourself but i was i wasn't being that dramatic then but i just was like okay i'm done you know and i remember i uh applied for community college and i remember

my grandma was like yeah just apply for community college like it's okay you know and i just remember my mom being like you know like um what are you doing you know and it was it was a moment dog dog. All right. You know what I'm saying? But she didn't want you to go to community college. She didn't want you to give up on your dream. Yeah, she was just like, yo, what are you doing? You know.

You know. You got any tissue? No, that's cool. That's cool. So anyway, bro, it just, when I say it could have went either way, it could have went either way. You know what I'm saying? So I'm just thankful that I had these guardian angels in my life, like my mom, just come in the form of anything, you know? A book. Word, word, word.

You know what I'm saying? That's why that's important. I mean, just as parents, like, yo, when your kids come to you with a dream, with a vision, even if you can't see it, just know that's God telling something to that child. So our job is just to support that dream. Yeah, like,

so I just appreciate her being so open-minded about that, bro, and, like, willing to support her baby. And, like, she went into debt. You know, I would see her cry over bills and stuff,

and so she wouldn't ever complain about paying for something for the studio for me, though. You know, I would see her cry over bills and stuff. And so she wouldn't ever complain about paying for something for the studio for me, though. You know, and still would cry about bills at night. So... Hey there, I'm Dr. Maya Shunker, a cognitive scientist who studies human behavior. On my podcast, A Slight Change of Plans, I marry science and storytelling to better understand how to navigate the big changes in our lives. It was like a slow nightmare, you know, because every day you think, oh, surely tomorrow I'll be

better. And I would dream of being better. At night, I would dream that my face was quote-unquote normal or back to the way it was, and I'd wake up and there'd be no change. I also speak with scientists about how we can be more resilient in the face of change. You can think of the adolescent brain as like the social R&D engine of our culture. That they're something that looks like risky and idiotic to us is maybe their way of creatively trying to solve the problem of having social success and fewer of the things that bring you social failure. Listen to A Slight Change of Plans

on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen to podcasts. What's up, y'all? This is Questlove, and I'm here to tell you about a new podcast I've been working on with the Story Pirates and John Glickman called Historical Records.

It's a family-friendly podcast. Yeah, you heard that right. A podcast for all ages. One you can listen to and enjoy with your kids starting on September 27th. I'm going to toss it over to the host of Historical Records, Nimany, to tell you all about it. Make sure you check it out. Hey y'all, Nimany here. I'm the host of a brand new history podcast for kids and families called Historical Records. Historical Records brings history to life through hip-hop. Each episode is about a different, inspiring figure from history. Like this one about Claudette Colvin, a 15-year-old girl in Alabama who refused to give up her seat on the city bus nine whole months before Rosa Parks did the same thing.

Check it. And it began with me. Did you know, did you know? I wouldn't give up my seat. Nine months before Rosa, it was Claudette Colvin. Get the kids in your life excited about history by tuning in to Historical Records. Because in order to make history, you have to make some noise. Listen to Historical Records on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

Muhammad Ali, George Foreman, James Brown, B.B. King, Miriam Akiba. I shook up the world. James Brown said, say it loud. And the kid said, I'm black and I'm proud. Black boxing stars and black music royalty together in the heart of Zaire, Africa. Three days of music and then the boxing event. What was going on in the world at the time made this fight as important that anything else is going on on the planet. My grandfather laid on the ropes and let George Foreman basically just punch himself out. Welcome to Rumble, the story of a world in

transformation. The 60s and prior to that, you couldn't call a person black. And how we arrived at this peak moment. I don't have to be what you want me to be. We all came from the continent of Africa. Listen to Rumble, Ali, Foreman, and the Soul of 74 on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. On Thanksgiving Day, 1999, a five-year-old boy floated alone in the ocean. He had lost his mother

trying to reach Florida from Cuba. He looked like a little angel. I mean, he looked so fresh. And his name, Elian Gonzalez, will make headlines everywhere. Elian Gonzalez. Elian Gonzalez. Elian. Elian. Elian Gonzalez, will make headlines everywhere. Elian Gonzalez. Elian. Elian.

Elian. Elian. Elian. Elian Gonzalez. At the heart of the story is a young boy and the question of who he belongs with. His father in Cuba. Mr. Gonzalez wanted to go home and he wanted to take his son with him. Or his relatives in Miami.

Imagine that your mother died trying to get you to freedom. Or his relatives in Miami. At the heart of it all is still this painful family separation. Something that as a Cuban, I know all too well. Listen to Chess Peace, the Elian Gonzalez story, as part of the My Cultura podcast network, available on the iHeartRad Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. It's just, it's cool because, you know, another story is...

Was she a hip-hop fan? That's something you got to ask her. She didn't really play hip-hop that much. You know, she was somebody who we would have it on, like, on the radio and stuff. But I remember when I bought the Slim Shady LP, she was, like, confused was like confused like what the fuck and she didn't even know he was from detroit and um you know i remember i had her at the video shoot when i just did a song with him and she was like you remember when we bought i was like yeah i remember you know from costco or whatever the

thing about that though that i want to say um is me and her have fell out me and my mom you know after all the stuff we've been through and it was definitely it was that time where i'm talking about where i was like just burnt out right and um she ended up coming out to visit me because we needed to rekindle our relationship she wasn't about to let that happen with her baby boy you feel me so she came out and stayed with me in October, 2019. And she was like, I'm going to stay for the whole winter. I'll leave on your birthday in March, 2020. So March, 2020 comes around and then COVID happens. Right. So my mom was like, I'll just stay until this is over. It's probably going to be another month or two, bro. She ended up staying for almost two more years and me and her in my crib. So it's probably going to be another month or two. Bro, she ended up staying for almost

two more years, me and her in my crib. So it's like- Look at God though. Look at God. It was like, not only did we reconnect, it was like a reconnection that's going to last for the rest of my life now. We back tight. And we had not been that tight. And I don't talk to her every day or nothing like that but me and my mom just are like I feel like that was a blessing in disguise you know and the fact that I said like it could have gone either way that's been like the biggest pleasure is like having her be with me and like believe in me that's amazing and like everyone else too I ain't gonna like my dad my brother like everyone everyone stepped up and played their part and I just

I appreciate that, man. So it's like when I think about my son coming to me, like I can't wait to nurture whatever he want to be. You feel me? Whether it's like an astronaut, a doctor, a scientist. If he feel like I want to be the best manager at

McDonald's, I'm like, whatever, we're going to make you do it. Whatever it is. Calvin. Remember Calvin? at McDonald's. I'm like, whatever. We're going to make you do whatever it is. Calvin. Remember Calvin? The McDonald's commercials? Period. Yeah.

Yeah, like whatever he want to do, I just can't wait to support him. Yeah. You know, we're here now with the new album, Better Me Than You. What's the science in that title? Man, Better Me Than You kind of just represents my mentality of when you have to be someone that changes your whole environment, your whole family, breaks a cycle, changes the whole trajectory of your circle. It's like sometimes you got to deal with the extra pressure, the extra weight of it all, and the extra just bullshit, right? But it's like you really got to understand you don't got to do it, you get to do it. And it's a privilege when you can step up and you're the one that's able to handle it.

You know what I'm saying? So when I hold my son and when I think about that, it's like, better me than you having to deal with all of these things right now. And sometimes that's on his mama too. But when it's his time to deal with it, because he's going to come into being a man one day that he accepts the responsibility proudly of stepping up to the plate.

You know what I mean? And really highlighting you as an individual. Like, I'm a better me than you could ever be. So to me, this is probably my truest album in the sense of just doing whatever I want to do. You know what I mean? You started off with a record called Apologize and you sample Ray J, the Breakfast Club moment, Ray J, right?

Yeah, that's right. No, no, no, no, no. Yes, yeah, that moment. And so you addressed a lot of things on that record. Someone who seemed to be stealing from you, someone who tried to fuck your girl, somebody that's supposed to be a big bro. You said you don't even want them to apologize. What's wrong with hearing I'm sorry?

Man, ain't nothing wrong with it, but an apology without a plan attached to it is an empty apology and that ain't shit. Yeah, they say the best apology is changed behavior. You know what I'm saying? Yeah, yeah, yeah. So it's like, people apologize and do the same thing. For that song specifically, I kind of put five people into one person. So it was a good writing exercise for me because I created a character for the song and it's like five different people I made into one person and then I wrote

the song as if that person existed. So are these people going to know who they are when they hear this record? Absolutely. All of them. Wow. Yeah. All of them for sure. But a lot of people when they hear this record? Absolutely. All of them. Wow. Yeah. Wow. Yeah, all of them, for sure. But a lot of people, when they hear it, they be like, oh, this is directly at Ye. It's for sure about Kanye. And I thought that, but then when I heard the Big Bro line, I'm like, nah, because he said he was looking out for Big Bro, and you had to pay Big Bro lawyer fees.

That wouldn't make no sense. That wouldn't make no sense. All right, man, you really was listening. Yeah. A lot of people, when they hear it, they don't all the way i'll be wondering if people have ears sometimes at work because people just be like even when i drop that freestyle just having fun people like you're just in kendrick lamar oh we're gonna get to that damn nigga like i literally said niggas looking for engagement like they got they need bent i got better things to do to find someone

to beef with they're like oh he trying to beef yeah'm like, what the fuck are y'all not hearing? I just said I got better things to do. You know what I'm saying? I want to get to that. This is a multi-layered interview. Yeah, but about that song, Apologize, that's the whole thing about it. It's about five different people manifesting into one and did a writing exercise. I was telling you when we was talking behind the scenes,

that I really like when you in your bag, when you're doing stuff like Break the Cycle, those self-reflective records. I can tell you've been doing your work on your healing journey, and you express it in these records. And on that record, Break the Cycle, you said Lena Waithe said you was the black Brad Pitt. And you said even though that's flattering, you was asking her, is this what people think of me like i just go from one star to

another star like why did that bother you not a constellation or um it bothered me because that's not who i am for real you know i'm not i'm not just hopping and but to her it was like yeah nigga you went from her to her to her he's in janae it's like yeah yeah that's not that's not cool like that's not how i like planned it out i wasn't you know what i'm saying so i just was highlighting that like i told her i actually saw her recently it was like yo i mentioned you about that situation but it just was i didn't sit right with me that ain, that ain't how I'm trying to come across, you know?

You want people to respect you for the art. Well, not, yeah, of course respect me for the art, but I also don't want people to just think, like, those are the only type of, first of all, the only type of women I'm into, one, you know what I mean? That's not, that's not how I'm trying to come across. That's the world you in, though.

It's the world I'm in, yeah. It's like if you work at a law firm, you're probably going to end up dating a lawyer or something. You know what I mean? It makes sense. Yeah. It makes sense in that way, but I just didn't want it to be like, oh, I only like singers or I only fuck with this. There are a lot of people I've dated that people don't know about that have nothing to do with the music industry that have nothing to do with anything in that world um that I've kept private before you know what I'm saying I just want to state that because yeah that's that's why I felt a way about it because it's like I didn't feel that was an accurate picture of me you know that's why I

addressed that because when I heard that line and you brought up Kendrick it made me think of a line Kendrick had in a record think of a line Kendrick had in a record that got leaked where he said, you're finally famous for who you date, not how you rhyme, boy. When you heard that bar, did you get any rhymes prepared? Did it have the same reaction that you had when Lena said that to you? All right, so yeah, Mo'Custa, those are two questions. When I first heard that, I definitely had a whole

thing prepared. So let's, let's back this up. So I did a song called no more interviews where I'm rapping about people rapping fast and blah, blah, blah. And people like, you talking about Kendrick? I'm like, well, I'm not talking about anyone specifically. I'm just talking my shit. At the time, there was a lot of motherfuckers rapping. I'm surprised no one thought Eminem or I remember Logic was hot at the MGK. You know, all these other rappers that rap fast. And I'm like, this nigga Kendrick don't even rap fast all the time. It's other

people who be rapping fast all the time. But I definitely was like not running from or ducking no type smoke at all. So when I heard that there might be some remnants some remnants of something i did have something prepared i'm not gonna lie and then i ran into day free in the elevator at w and me and i'm like yo was that i i forgot what um was it the control verse no no no this was way after

because so okay so by the way kendrick has been in my house me and him are cool by the way he's invited me to his mom's house before this was like my old house we were cooler back then let me say that because i'm not gonna sit here and be like we cool i don't talk to him but um i remember i'm just breaking down the timeline i remember when in i dropped i decided and bounced back and all this stuff and he dropped he was dropping his album damn and i can't remember what freestyle i guess it was the hard part four five maybe something like that and people were like oh he's talking about big sean in there right so i ran i ran in it i hit up Top Dog first. I'm like, yo, who he talking about? He's talking about the,

he's just talking to me. He's just throwing a bone out there, right? Why you didn't even ask Kendrick? Why not text Kendrick to see who, was you talking about me

in the first place? Because I didn't think I had his right number. I think I did hit him first and I'm like, I got Top Number because he had just had me come out of his charity event

like a year ago or something in Watts. You know what I'm saying? So I'm thinking we like straight. he had just had me come out of his charity event like a year ago or something and Watts, you know what I'm saying? So I'm thinking we like straight, you know what I'm saying? So then, no, no, no, it wasn't about you. It wasn't about you. All right, cool.

So the little shit I had, I just was like, let me, let me get out of my head. Cause I'm thinking like it might be something. So you had a song or a verse? I had just some ideas, you know what I'm saying? Just awesome. Just to be real with you. Like I just some ideas. You know what I'm saying? Just awesome, just to be real with you. Like, I had some ideas, you know, mapped out. So then Nipsey dies.

Joe Budden had created this, like, before that, Joe Budden had made this, like, there's a Kendrick, Big Sean beef. And to the point where I tried to ignore it, but he made that narrative so fucking real that I think it really did become a thing. He wasn't all the way wrong, though. You said there might have been something in the air. Well, yeah, because I'm getting to the point where me and Kendrick talk.

So I get to the point where I'm like, damn, dude, we got something going on. That's why I had something prepared, right? And then when I run into Dave Free, and he's like, nah like nah bro it ain't nothing like it's all love he said something like that wasn't directly towards you it was for anyone you know okay so then nipsey dies and i sit on the plane next to punch random as hell. We're headed to J Coles Festival and he's like, you ever talked to Kendrick? And I'm like, No, I never. I know it ain't shit there. But no, we

never really spoke. Then in that around that time, like that day or maybe the day before that or the week or day within that same time period that leaked shit happened it was a leaked verse and it said what you said yep i'm like damn nigga y'all motherfucking said it wasn't shit and it was something so you got me looking crazy but maybe he prepared something just like the same way you were thinking he was like you know let me get my nukes just in case too right but the thing is that song came out and he changed that bar right so that wasn't on the song anymore.

It was a leaked verse. So I had to keep that in mind because I was pissed when I heard it. So then I'm like, okay, he changed that on his own. So he probably came to the conclusion that it was nothing. So then me and him talked. And I got the text on my phone. And he's like, I might pull the

text out and read it. Let's hear it. Why not? I ain't even got my, somebody else got my phone. Somebody grab Sean's phone. Essentially. No need to misquote him. Yeah, I ain't trying to misquote shit. Because I don't give a fuck that much to misquote a nigga. And how long ago was this?

You said right after Nip died. Yeah. Okay. So, I mean, you can read my stuff, too. You want me to read it? No, no, no. I don't think we should read it because I think that's kind of like bitch made. I. So, I mean, you can read my stuff, too. You want me to read it? No, no, no. I don't think we should read it, because I think that's kind of, like, bitch made. I got you, I got you.

But I want you to kind of, like, see the sentiment of it. So, this is me. Okay. And then this is him. What up, champ? You know, yes, we're in great grievance. That's real? Strongly.

So, in a sense, I don't want to say it. He apologized, in a sense, for going that far say it he apologized in a sense for going that far you know for that shit coming out right so i wanted to show you that because in a sense he apologized right so if kendrick apologized for that literal that same leak that i heard prematurely right that he didn't use. It's like, then it leaks fully later, right? And people hear it, and we already discussed it. And he said, appreciate the shout-out on

a Nipsey song. I already addressed it on a song with Nip. Lack of communication or wrong information for people fueled by the ego is like mixing flames with diesel. That's what he said to you? No, that's what I said on a song with Nipsey. Oh, I know, but in the text it sounded like he kind of said the same thing. Yeah, that's why I said it in the song.

Because in that text he said, yo, you know, my ego, da-da-da. So it's like, when that shit leaks, it's like people are like, oh, you heard what he said about you? I'm like, nigga, I'm not a clout-chasing-ass nigga, bro. I'm solid and I stand on mine and I'm not about to do something because everyone thinks a certain thing.

Like, we already talked about it. I already got an apology for it. And your shirt right now says I do not care about their opinions. Yes. So why would you care about the opinions of other people if you know what it is

between you and that? Exactly. And that's what it's been. You know, I ain't really had too much communication with him since then. And, you know, but I just want to let like I represent a lot of people from my city, from where I come from, fans of mine who think I didn't stand on my shit. And that's not the case. That's what I want to clarify. I wasn't being a bitch nigga or like tucking my tail or nothing like that. And if it was real smoke, if it was really something to stand on, I will be full front. I would be there front and center for it. And I would be prepared, you know what I'm saying? But it's not. And people want to

make something that is not. So that's something that I never really got a chance to clarify. And, you know, to me, it's better to to be about business and to be authentic. And like if there's literally not a problem there, then I'm not about to feed into no narrative that isn't true that I know isn't true. Do you feel like the Drake and Kendrick situation, beef, whatever you want to call it, stepped over, stepped on your return because you dropped. Precision. Precision. Yeah. And then like that, dropped like a week later and it feel like it just drowned. No, no, no.

It dropped the same day. It was the same day? Yeah, it dropped the same day. Oh, no, no. But you did drop a freestyle the week before though. Am I tripping? I dropped it like two days before. Yeah.

Freestyle. Yeah. And it feel like it drowned like that and just drowned that out. It did drown it out, bro. It was like, but you got to think about it. If it's like Metro Boomin' and Future and then Kendrick addressing J. Cole and Drake on First Person Shooter, you're kind of involving a whole kind of like, it's a whole thing. It's like a whole, you know, as opposed to me, I hadn't even dropped music in years, bro.

And I'm just like a return. So I understood. It was, I was surprised too. I was just like everybody else. Like, oh shit. Like, you know. Aren't you glad that you and Kendrick never really got into it though? Because that could have been you, Sean.

That could have been. What could have been me? He did drink pretty dirty. He did. Yeah, that could have been. Would you have been ready for all of that? I guess we'll never know. Yes, though, of course.

Of course I would have been ready for it. What changes have you made to Better Me Than You since the album got leaked? Well, luckily it wasn't the album. Oh, that wasn't the album? No, it was kind of like a couple of things from the album. Okay. You know, luckily, it wasn't the album. So, I think whoever did that, though, was just kind of like, was just kind of fucked up to do. I don't know why.

You know, they said, oh, you was talking shit about Ye. It's like, Ye was talking shit about me, too. You know what I'm saying? So it's like. We all saw Drink Champs. Yeah, what the fuck? Did you find out who leaked the album? And what made you have to get on Instagram Live and clear up that it wasn't Kanye?

Oh, nothing made me do that. I just was like on Instagram Live vibing. And I saw someone in the comment or some shit. And like, it just popped in my head like I didn't have like a script ready for Instagram live but I just don't think that Ye would do some shit like that because maybe I'm giving him too much credit I don't know because it's like I know I wouldn't do no shit like that like I wouldn't leak like I got hella Kanye songs unreleased on my hard drive I would never because ideas that I was working on or seeing if I could contribute to, that I would never leak because that's just like, that's just, that's not my character.

Have you spoke to him since then? Since Drink Champ? No, since the, well, really since the album leaked, I guess. Nah. Okay, okay. Nah, nah, nah. Nah. How is your relationship now?

And can you have a relationship with a person who shitted on you the way he did on Drink Champs and he owes you $6 million? Can y'all ever have a genuine relationship? Well, he doesn't owe me the money anymore. It got resolved. Oh, he paid you? Someone paid me. I guess it was him.

Word. Yeah, but I took a little less than I probably... I just wanted to end it instead of going to court or some shit over that. What was the haircut? It was six minutes. What was the haircut? Hmm? What was the haircut?

How much did you end up getting? Let's see. That is none of your business. But you're good, though. Y'all, he did pay you, basically. Well, yeah. but you're good though y'all he did pay you basically well yeah so so the thing was i had an issue and i had an issue because i kept privately being like yo i need my money to his lawyers to him not to not really bringing it to him so much because i know the type of guy he is

he don't be dealing with all of the business aspect of things all the time you know what i'm saying so i'm doing it properly i'm going through the proper channels management. They're like, you know what I'm saying? And then after years go by, it's not like I was super hurting for it. But at the same time, it's like, first of all, and I don't want to get it misconstrued, like signing to good music was the best thing that could have happened to me in that moment in my life, period. i don't take it for granted it was a golden opportunity signing to my favorite artist at the time and being able to sell 185 million records under good music you know what i'm saying it was a dream come true

and his only profitable artist at that so it's like I wore that good music and still do. I still fuck with the brand and what it did for me and everything. And there was a part of me that will forever fuck with Ye because of that too, for signing me. I'll never discount that. But at the same time, with the deal I signed, he made more money off of me, my music than me, which is totally fine. I'm not complaining about that it's just a fact people be trying to take this so much as a fact it's just a fucking fact so when you're owed money off of a deal that you're already getting the lesser part of it and you're hitting i'm hitting up def jam because i'm auditing def jam jeff harleston you know jeff harleston i know i'm like

yo i need my money bro like where the fuck is my money because I'm audited in Def Jam every time I audit Def Jam there's money sitting there and then when I really broke it down and they were like oh yo you sold 185 million records this I'm like wait this don't equate right where's my six million dollars six million dollars no one's getting back to me no one's getting back to me so then i drop a record i drop a feature on benny the benny the butcher's album and i say something about it like niggas that's up b's that owe me m's i'm talking about def jam later on i realized oh no your money got paid a long time ago to good music okay i don't give a fuck where's my money

oh no you gotta hit up yay for that oh a fuck. Where's my money? Oh, you got to hit up. Yay for that. Oh, shit. Okay. Yay. Where's my money? Oh, you know, I'm not getting a straight answer from no one. So then I'm like, bro, y'all playing with my money. This is ridiculous.

After all of the times where I've sat in the studio, contributed, not got any credit on shit, which is, like I said, I'm not even complaining about that. It is what it is. But the point is, I need my money that's owed to me. You know what I'm saying? So that's all that was. I ended up settling because I didn't want to deal with it no more. I wanted to move past it because that shit is all an energy, too.

So, you know, and after he said what he said, and then I got back up with him after he said what he said on Drink Champs. So y'all did connect after Drink Champs? Yeah. In person or phone? In person. Okay. Yeah. And he said, you know, he said what he said.

I'm not into, like, gossip and stuff, but he said what he said, and it made me realize that I can't really take, I couldn't really take all what he was saying serious on that Drink Champs. Very performative. Very performative very performative and that's the that's how i am that's like probably one of the reasons why like i feel like that's what i i'm not that's what he's good at and that i'm not so good at that you know because i'm like i don't like doing things that don't feel real or like you know where you know when we were there it was like yeah, make sure they get a picture of us leaving here so they can. I'm like, what are you saying? Some wild ass shit about me, though. You know what I mean?

Like, yeah, I hate this fucking shit. I don't like that type of shit. I don't like the type of I don't know, like I'm the type of person I value my relationships. Yeah. So if I've ever called you a friend, if I've ever called you family, I really mean that. So if you do something like that to me, and I would never do that to you, it's hard for me to ever look at you the same ever again. Yeah, and I think he was just pissed because he felt like I chose Drake over him.

That relates back to like, I only bring that up because he brought that up to somebody who told me something. When you say Drake, I'm like in 2015, he talking about the song Blessings, where I helped Ye write his verse for the song after he heard the song was I Have To Be On It. And I helped him write his verse. And then I told him, you got to turn it into the mastering plan tomorrow, bro, because my album is about to come out. I wake up the next, by the way, I'm doing way too much as an artist. Like, I shouldn't even have to be worried about shit like this. I'm checking in like an A& an artist. Like, I shouldn't even have to be worried about shit like this.

I'm checking in like an A&R would. Hey, did he send a verse to Mastering? Oh, no, he still didn't. I called his engineer. Yo, did he say, oh, no, we still. I'm like, bro, y'all bush. Y'all playing. If he wants to be on the song, he need to send it.

We ended up doing a video version and a radio version. But for some reason, he thinks because Drake didn't want him on that song. But I was like, I'm putting Ye on this song anyway because yay put me on if he wants to be on the song he's gonna be on the song so even though i've said that to his face he just don't hear me or some shit so for some reason he just think think that i'm being unloyal or some shit i really don't know i can't speak for. In fact, I don't like speaking for other people, but I'm just from my perspective. It was something along those lines with that. Managing rappers' egos is crazy. Yeah.

What do you think about all of that? I think that you should have done what was best for you and your album in that moment. I think that sometimes when you deal with anxiety and you deal with bouts of depression, because I deal with the same thing, where people pleases and we don't want to let people down, but then we're the ones that constantly end up getting let down. You got a verse that I want to talk about later on that says something like that. Yeah, and that's true though, bro. I be giving a fuck too much about these people that don't give a fuck about you.

That's right. They don't give a fuck. That's right. I mean, I don't know. I can't speak for them, like I said, but it's like, I be trying to protect people too much. So it's like, but it's not in my character to put people's shit out there and be dirty like that. That's really not who I am. And I say that with pride, you know?

I don't say that like, that's just not who I am. And I say that with pride, you know? I don't say that like, that's just not who I am. Especially if I'm spending all this time doing all this work on myself, and I can look at you and tell that you need to do a lot more work on yourself. So you have grace for that person. Yeah. But that don't mean that you're going to continuously allow this person to shit on you. No, period. Hell no.

Hey there. I'm Dr. Maya Shunker, a cognitive scientist who studies human behavior. On my podcast, A Slight Change of Plans, I marry science and storytelling to better understand how to navigate the big changes in our lives. It was like a slow

nightmare. You know, because every day you think, oh, surely tomorrow I'll be better. And I would dream of being better. At night I would dream that my face was quote-unquote normal or back to the way it was. And I'd wake up and there'd be no change. I also speak with scientists about how we can be more resilient in the face of change.

You can think of the adolescent brain as like the social R&D engine of our culture, that they're something that looks like risky and idiotic to us is maybe their way of creatively trying to solve the problem of having social success and fewer of the things that bring you social failure. Listen to A Slight Change of Plans on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen to podcasts. So y'all, this is Questlove, and I'm here to tell you about a new podcast I've been working on with the Story Pirates and John Glickman called Historical Records. It's a family-friendly podcast. Yeah, you heard that right.

A podcast for all ages. One you can listen to and enjoy with your kids starting on September 27th. I'm going to toss it over to the host of Historical Records, Nimany, to tell you all about it. Make sure you check it out. Hey, y'all. Nimany here. I'm the host of a brand new history podcast for kids and families

called Historical Records. Historical Records brings history to life through hip-hop. Flash, slam, another one gone. Bash, bam, another one gone. The crack of the bat and another one gone. through hip-hop. Each episode is about a different, inspiring figure from history. Like this one about Claudette Colvin, a 15-year-old girl in Alabama who refused to give up her seat on the city bus nine whole months before Rosa Parks did the same thing.

Check it. And it began with me Did you know, did you know I wouldn't give up my seat Nine months before Rosa It was called a moment Get the kids in your life excited about history

by tuning in to Historical Records. Because in order to make history, you have to make some noise. Listen to Historical Records on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Muhammad Ali, George Foreman, James Brown, B.B. King, Miriam Akiba. I shook up the world.

James Brown said, say it loud. And the kids said, I'm black and I'm proud. Black boxing stars and black music royalty together in the heart of Zaire, Africa. Three days of music and then the boxing event. What was going on in the world at the time made this fight as important that anything else is going on on the planet. My grandfather laid on the ropes and let George Foreman basically just punch himself out. Welcome to Rumble, the story of a world in transformation.

The 60s and prior to that, you couldn't call a person black. And how we arrived at this peak moment. I don't have to be what you want me to be. We all came from the continent of Africa. Listen to Rumble, Ali, Foreman, and the Soul of 74 on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

On Thanksgiving Day, 1999, a five-year-old boy floated alone in the ocean. He had lost his mother trying to reach Florida from Cuba. He looked like a little angel. I mean, he looked so fresh. And his name, Elian Gonzalez, will make headlines everywhere. Elian Gonzalez. Elian.

Elian Gonzalez. Elian. Elian. Elian Gonzalez. At the heart of the story is a young boy and the question of who he belongs with. His father in Cuba. Mr. Gonzales wanted to go home and he wanted to take his son with him.

Or his relatives in Miami. Imagine that your mother died trying to get you to freedom. At the heart of it all is still this painful family separation. Something that as a Cuban, I know all too well. Listen to Chess Peace, the Elian Gonzalez story, as part of the My Cultura podcast network, available on the iHeart Radio app,

Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Looking back on your experiences with depression and anxiety, do you believe it had a negative impact on your career? Do you believe that everything happened exactly how it was supposed to? It got to be everything happened exactly how it's supposed to, because.

If anything would have been different, it may have not led me to the moment that I'm in now. Where I got. A beautiful son, I got a beautiful life and I got a lot life, and I got a lot of experiences and I got a lot of knowledge. And if things would have happened differently, who knows what it could have turned out as, but I think everything happens how it's supposed to happen, for sure. Let's talk about your son. On the new album, you got a song where you sample Get On Up, and on that record you address

your son. One of the bars that really stood out to me is, i look into my son's eyes and still see his innocence i see my inner child in him and still the remnants will he lose it to the world or is it intimate imminent or will he have the confidence that me and his mom instilled in him so it made me wonder when i heard that line i'm like damn are you raising your son out of fear or love i'm raising him out of love 1000%. Like, that's a good question, though, because it kind of does contemplate that. But the thing about the difference between fear is when those questions arise is the action you take on them to me. So, like, me recognizing that, like, you know, I look at my sons. I see his innocence.

I see my inner child in him is still the remnants. Will he lose it to the world? Is it imminent? Or is it something that me and his mama had instilled in him? And the confidence you lose, you could build again. It's like, I kind of feel like even though there is a, having a kid for me has been one of the most like scariest things, most beautiful, but scariest in a way of like, it's a new territory of new emotions that I didn't even know I could have. Like the way that I love my son and like feel connected to him in all moments and consider him and like, it's just transformed me for the better.

And it's also like a very soft spot. It's like that. It's like I could do without anything I can't do without him. You know what I'm saying? So I thank God every day for his like presence and him waking up and his health. And like, you know,

I got these affirmations I say every day and like, I'm real serious about it because I really appreciate who he is and what he's here to do. You know, I think he's here to do some great things. But I definitely embrace him out of love, you know. And any fear is not really fear. But any time where there's uncertainty, I have to trust that it's all going to work out for the best. Because, you know, we as black men,

and I always say this from the perspective of my father, like I know my father raised me out of more fear than love just because he didn't want me to make the same mistakes

that he made. He was just afraid of what the world may do to me. Yeah. So that's why I asked you. I think a lot of our parents, I think a lot of us

were raised out of fear in a fear-based way. And what I mean by that is even my dad, I remember one of the things he would always say is, man, life isn't fair. That's a belief that you are immediately passing down to your son. Life isn't fair. It's just hard out here. And that's his experience, but it's like, you know, like you got to work hard. That's one thing that I'm not necessarily going to instill in my son.

It's like I've seen my dad and my mom have two jobs, four jobs between them and they'd be broke as hell and they'd be like in debt. And then I've seen billionaires who work an hour a day. And I got all this money and it's not about how hard you work that's maybe a factor of it that may be a part of it but it's really about how smart you work you know and i think that um i don't want to project anything onto my son all i want to do is just support him whatever he does but i think like another one was the fear of money like i got i got that from my family growing up like we didn't have a lot of money, so it was like, oh, you got to really be conservative. And it has taught me a lot. I talk about it

on Break the Cycle with Charlie Wilson on my album. But it's the fear of scarcity, not having enough. Somehow nowadays, I just kind of have an agreement with the, with God and like that, no matter what, I'm always be good. I always have more than enough to take care of myself and the people around me that, you know, I choose to take care of. And I truly believe that. How has your relationship with, with Janae and, and being a father changed the way you approach life? It's taught me to not, it's like you have to consider more than just yourself. And you have to, you know, Janae has definitely taught me to like really make sure.

She kind of is aligned with one of those things that I'm aligned with is this career, this music isn't everything. Now, this is everything. You know what I'm saying? Your son. Yeah. Just that more so.

And that kind of goes into the concept I was saying earlier about we get so caught up in our careers, being successful, all these things. You've got to understand success is a feeling more than it is an amount of something. Because all that's conditional. It's really a feeling. It's subjective. It's really a feeling but it's subjective. It's objective, but when you look back And you know that when I started the interview I said what if the what if our point of life was really to advance our souls? for real and

That you know, I'm not saying a career isn't an important part of your legacy But let's not neglect that part of it. I feel like that's what Having a family and raising Noah Is like makes keeps that in perspective for me. It's like, yeah, there's rap career. People can say what they say, have an opinion, but you're writing a book and all this stuff, but that's not what it's all about.

You know what I mean? That's what I would have thought. That's just a part of life. And the real thing is progressing your soul. So, you know, she definitely is someone who thinks in a similar way, you know. But having a kid definitely makes it hard in a lot of ways to just like a newborn, you know, when they're younger, it definitely takes a lot of energy. But it's rewarding, though. You know, you get you get so much from it as well.

How important is it to have a partner that's on a healing journey like you are? Because Janaya has been open about her mental health struggles as well. Mm-hmm. Yeah, it is important to have, especially, like, I want to really, these questions I'm answering honestly too. I would hope so. Do you lie in other interviews? No, I don't. I'm just thinking it through.

That's why it's kind of like sometimes I have to like think about the question a little bit. It's like, it's always good to have someone that you could talk to. And I'm not going to sit up and say, like, we're always on the same page. Like, we have a lot of things to work out ourselves, you know. I'm sure, like, everyone. But it does boil down to the same beliefs of, like, she definitely is someone who believes in like healing and believes in, you know, a lot of meditation, a lot of putting and putting it into the work.

You know what I'm saying? And not really so focused on like, oh, the charts or this or that. It's like that's one thing I really appreciate about her is that she puts like how she feels and where her heart is and that's something that i have um been doing and striving to do as well you know what i mean yeah so it's important to have that type of um just that a person like that that you can always talk to and be aligned with you know i know she's on tour so who taking care of taking care of noah she was noah's been with her for like the first leg of the tour and yeah so she only did that she did if she was gone for a month but yeah he was that was his first experience on the road okay yeah he's been in you know they started in detroit like my mom and dad and brother were all spending time with him as well so it's been cool you know i had a conversation with a tank

recently it was very hard for me it was very hard for having a boy yeah man that shit was tough that shit was way tougher than i thought why didn't you go out for a couple of dates on the road man because i had my own commitments that I had committed to previous. It was like, I wanted to be there for the Detroit show, but I had to perform

at this, I committed to this Beverly Hills Cop thing, and then this festival in Chicago, and then these meetings and things about finishing my book

and album and all sorts of stuff. And it's just like... Life. Life is life. Yeah. So unfortunately, I couldn't just be there for that first part, but I'm definitely going to make some shows and be there. I want to talk to you about just the music shit with Jhené,

because I had a conversation with Tink on Breakfast Club recently, and she's on tour with Jhené. And she was saying for her, Jhené is the blueprint for so many of the R&B girls. I didn't know that. I knew people liked her, but I didn't know she was looked at like that. So forget that being your lady. As an artist, do you see her like that? Yeah, I said this on the Coachella stage.

I feel like she was, when it comes to the new R&B, I'm trying to figure out how to phrase that, but the 2010s, kind of like the- The Summer Walkers and the- Oh yeah, she's like the prototype to me of that. That type of style of music, the mixtapes, the, you know, and I've seen them meet Jhené and say that to her. I've seen Summer Walker say that to Jhené. I mean, not that specifically, but in that realm of things. But yeah, I feel like she is definitely that blueprint.

And yeah, I've heard that quite a bit. And I think that's true that blueprint. I've heard that quite a bit, and I think that's true. Will you two do another 2088 project? There has been music made, yeah. But I don't want to speak for her. You know what I'm saying? Music made, yeah. But I don't want to speak for her. I saw in an interview she said that the door is open there and it is. But I'm going to just leave that. It's definitely a possibility and there is some music made for sure. What's stopping y'all from getting married? Y'all already did one of those secret industry

weddings? No, no. There has not been a secret industry marriage. I think that it's a little personal, you know what I mean? But just like to be real with you, just like any people who have dealt with love, we've had our ups and downs. You know what I'm saying? And I think it's still finding the right navigation through it all. I don't know if like if to me marriage symbolizesizes the best relationship. People be like, oh, you got to get married. To me, I feel like having a relationship is first and foremost,

and marriage is a byproduct of that. I feel like a lot of people get the idea of, oh, you have to get married. But then it's like, to me, that's almost a fear-based way of thinking, too, because then people be getting divorced. The divorce rate is so fucking high. And I am someone who I'm not like discounting anything and I'm not saying that we aren't going to get married. But what I'm saying is, is that it's just. I would like to do a lot.

I would like to. And I don't like putting our personal business out there like that either. But there's a lot of work that needs to be done, I feel like, in general. Well, take it from somebody who's been with their woman for 26 years,

right? It's always going to be ups and downs. Period. The work's never going to stop. Yeah. Especially raising kids. 26 years? Been with her 26 years. to stop. Yeah. Especially raising kids. 26 years? Been with her 26 years.

Got married in 2014. Oh, shit. So you're married for 10. Wow. So it's going to always be ups and downs. What took you 16 years to get married? I don't know. Exactly.

It's kind of like a hard thing. Yeah, I really don't know. I really, truly, honestly don't know. In my mind, I felt like I wasn't where I needed to be. Right? But I did know this is the person I want to be with for the rest of my life. So my mentality is, hey, I already know it's going to be. No relationship is going to be perfect all the time.

So if you're thinking that you got to wait for this fairy tale, magical awakening where everything going to be all good all the time. It's just like, no. No. That's not the way life is. No, no, no. I don't think it's that. I think that it's just seeing so many different, you know, the thing about Jhené is that

we're so many, we have so many relationships. It's like being peers, being in a group together uh parents romantic all that you know it's like it's a it's a crazy it's a crazy connection because no matter what we're always going to be tied together no matter what so i think that that doesn't discount that like she and me both have to be on the same page not to say we aren't but I feel like I will I I can only speak for myself that there needs to be like more work done so so we could keep going um because there's a lot of focus on our family there's a lot of focus on our family. There's a lot of focus on careers and everything. And that is something that I feel like has not been the main focus.

So you're not necessarily together now. You're just figuring it out. Oh, no, no. Look at you, Charlotte. I'm just asking a question. No, I'm not saying that either. What I'm saying is that it's not perfect and that it needs to be work done. All right, all right. You know what I'm saying?

I'm glad we're having this convo, though, because I was having a conversation with one of my young partners, my man Relly. And he was talking about you. And he said he felt like you never had an identity people gravitate to. He also felt like you never had a story that people could connect with. So even when you wrap your heart out, it might not necessarily work because you lack those other things. Wow. So when you hear that, I'm going to ask you again, more thoughts on yourself when you hear people i think that just comes from me not wanting to share

my you know how like some people are really good at like putting themselves on social media like cardi b is an example right here like you know people like like cardi was that before music though right yeah you know what i'm saying And that never was just natural to me, sharing my story so much. I kind of live a life where I always went against the grain when it came to, even from Detroit, being from Detroit and not rapping the way everyone else rapped, or not rapping about even the same shit everyone rapped. You know, my stepbrother got locked up 15 times. It's like I seen people die.

I seen all sorts of shit. But it's like and I rap about that, but I don't rap about it from in a like I'm not a gangster rapper, period. Because that's not what I wanted to portray. That's not how I felt, even though I saw it. Even though that may have been authentic to me, I just, that ain't what I was trying to put out in the universe type shit. So I respect anyone decision, but at the same time,

you know, I think that I'm honest, and I think that there's DNA in all of the music that I put out and maybe people haven't listened to it all. But I've been honest with myself. I put my heart out in my music and I've kept it real and never fronted, never faked it or period. I told you earlier, I love when you be in your bag where you are rapping and I can hear that you've been doing the work. The records like Break the Cycle or Boundaries, which we gonna get into, those records, I'm like, okay, Sean is in his bag.

The other stuff, you just rapping, because you nice. Yeah. And I can say that the other stuff is like, I still want to do the other stuff too. I'm just having fun. Like, da, da, da to do the other stuff too. I'm just having fun. Like, I just like, like feeling the energy of it. And, but I also, when I feel the need of like getting a message off, I attach that to it too. But sometimes I just like having fun with it, you know, and people can say, take that how they want to take it. Um, but at least I did this shit my way, man. At least I kept it true

to me. So I know people always got something to say. And I welcome that, but at the same time, you know, shit. I'm just doing my thing. I don't really make music for it to be so picked apart when I'm doing a song. I don't be like, oh, they're going to pick this apart like this and that and that and that. I just be doing it. And I just be like, oh, I like it. And then it goes how it goes. You know, we talked about Precision earlier. And you did that record when you had Food Poisoner. And you said, I think where I lack most as an artist is consistency. I just haven't had the energy to compete with enemies or y'all so-called bigotry. You want to expound

on that bar a little bit more? Oh yeah, just, I mean, like I just, the hunger and like for competition kind of never took the precedence over me working on myself and saving my life. Because that thing, remember I told you, at that time in my life, I had to fall back and get my shit together. Absolutely. You know what I'm saying? That's kind of what I meant by that. So the reason you didn't have the energy to compete is because you were dealing with depression, because you were dealing with anxiety. I don't want to say depression and anxiety.

I was just care more about myself since then to like think about that or, you know, but if I have to compete, bro, I'm definitely down. Like, I don't want to make it seem like I'm not with that, but it's never really been an honest,

like blatant challenge that i felt needed to be addressed you know like kendrick on control he kind of laid he laid the gauntlet down for everybody on that though but let's not forget who put control there bro i'm the one who put it out yeah you know what i'm saying i was the one who put the whole thing together did you ever think you wanted to go change your verse just to no okay no i didn't because i respected that he thought of that to name people and do all that but let's not forget who put control out and whose song it is like i did that because i cared that i knew that i when i thought about it when i got the verse back, I'm like, man, that was real interesting that he chose that

perspective. And I wasn't about to be like, oh, you can't do that on my song. I was like, shit. He's either going to get it off here or somewhere else. It was like, fuck it. Let's run it. But they didn't clear the song. You know what I'm saying? After it came

out and I took that bullet for the culture, it didn't get cleared. What do you mean it didn't get cleared? Like, the reason it wasn't on my album is because they didn't clear it. You mean he didn't clear it? Yeah, because of all the controversy and drama that it amassed, I assume. It was already out, though. That was what I'm saying. I'm like, we agreed to do the song, put it out.

I'm like, put agreed to do the song, put it out. I'm like, put it on my album. They like, oh no. I never really got a full explanation of why that didn't, it just never got cleared. And it wasn't like I didn't clear it. Does it upset you that you aren't in the big three combo? I think I am in the big three combo. What big three combo? The big I am in the big three combo. What big three combo? The big three. Man, you funny.

You're not in the big three. What you mean? The combo is Drake, Kendrick, and Cole. That's who it's always been. And I hear my name around that a lot. Outside of the big three. I actually think it's a fantastic four. Because I throw Future in there.

Okay. But not because of lyrics, but just because of impact over the last decade plus and then i think after that that's when you talk about the shawns the wale's that's why that's why i go well there's only one me and there's only one wale so um okay so the big three converse so what's the question? Do you ever be upset that you're not in that convo? Well shit, I hear my fucking name all the time when people talk about this big three stuff. Even when you said, whoever, you said your bigger three. So your so-called bigger three.

Okay, so what people think of the big three. Yeah, yeah, yeah. What people think. That's why I said your so-called bigger three the... Yeah, yeah, yeah. What got you think? Yeah, that's why I said you're so-called Bigger 3. Well, the general consensus is Big 3. But I also understand that I have been very inconsistent as an artist. My consistency is where I lack. I say that in that too.

It's like I haven't put out music in four years, bro, essentially. You know what I mean? I haven't put a project out so i can't expect to be in a com in that conversation when i haven't been consistently feeding the uh feeding hip-hop and feeding fans and feeding you know and that's something that as an artist it hurts because i do need to the people who do rock and ride for me like i want to give them reasons to be fans. And I think that just comes with more consistency. But I think I'm at a point in my life where I can produce more,

but still keeping on God's timing in my time. But, you know, I think the way my life is going, it's like that's one of my priorities is is to put more music out with meaning too, though, with still that feeling of, okay, feeling good about it. Let me show you how God works. Look what my next question was. Can you be upset by what you haven't gotten out of rap if you know that you haven't been as consistent as the people in the big three?

That's what I'm saying. So it's like, I'm not delusional. I haven't been putting out music, so that's one of the big three. That's what I'm saying. So it's like, I'm not delusional. Like, I haven't been putting out music, so that's one of the, yeah. But I do feel like when it comes to rapping abilities

that I have no limit on my rapping abilities. I feel like I can keep improving and keep getting better and I can hang with anybody on any song.

You know, and I've proven that. Oh, absolutely. With all of them. With all of them. With all of them? A hundred percent? Yeah.

And even like with Control, the next song we did, I made sure I had a better verse on Holy Key. And that's just, you know,

that wasn't, that was just because I was like, wait, hold up, you know, I gotta like make sure I'm repping my shit proper right now.

Remember I told you when I started this interview, I wanted people to get clarity on who Sean is. And I think we're doing that because I want to ask you, like, you know, that's why I keep bringing it back to your mental health journey. Because how do you think your mental health journey affected your positioning in the game? Whether it be how it impacted your creativity, how people perceived you, how you carried yourself. Because in this game, you still got to show up a lot of times, even when you don't want to. Yeah. And it's exhausting.

It's exhausting having to show up. What was the question again? I'm sorry. How do you feel like your mental health journey affected your positioning in the game? You know? How did my mental health journey affect my positioning, Paws, in the game? I think that this game isn't about those are two different things right so

it's not really a supportive thing like this industry in general isn't supportive of mental health in a sense what I mean by that is things like consistency things like staying

hot things like being you know this and that necessarily don't always align with mental health you know what i'm saying and that word mental health got a stigma around it to me because it's like i don't sit here and be like my arm health is good today to me it's health right and i feel like when you think about a lot of our industry, a lot of people high as fuck, that's how they deal with being, having to be so on all the time. Your high as shit. That's what I was dealing with too. I had to figure out a way to get by to make it through.

So niggas be high, niggas be drunk, niggas be off lean, off pills, off all this shit, right? To be able to function in this game because it's so exhausting and taxing. And I'm straight up here raw-dogging all my emotions and shit. I'm, like, fighting this shit sober. It's like, you know, are you sober or what you do? You do anything? You smoke? I do edibles. I do edibles, you know? I like my tequila, you know?

Plus I experience with plant-based medicines, but for spiritual purposes. I've done ayahuasca. I've done shrooms. Oh, wow. Oh yeah, absolutely. I want to hear about that. You ain't got to talk about it now. I've done shrooms, too. I've done this shit. And I'm not saying I wouldn't do it, but lately I've just been keeping a clear mind, especially while I was like, especially while I was working on this book, working on finishing this album.

I definitely like, there's a song on the album with me and Thundercat where I was off shrooms. We were all off shrooms making the album. I mean, making the song Black Void. But I think that, to answer your question, I think that has nothing to do with my positioning in the game, to me. I think that those are two separate things. And I'm not going to use the excuse of mental health on why I haven't been as consistent as I could be as an artist or as I would like to be.

I think that's just how it happened. But if you're dealing with lots of depression and you don't feel like going in the studio. Mm-hmm That you have some personal problem If you don't want to go make this appearance because you know you feel in a way you have that right to not do that Either but all those things do affect, you know your career. Yeah, and I think that a lot of people take a Hiatuses and shit, I think some people don't, but some people do. And it's just about you accepting where you are with it. But I think that just shows the importance

of putting yourself. And to me, it's important to put myself first. So yeah, I'm probably not as big as an artist as I could be or all these things. I don't blame my mental health for it, though. You know, in fact, I think that the best part of life is being able to enjoy it. And that took a lot of time for me. That took a lot of effort for me to get there. You know what I'm saying? Hey there. I'm Dr. Maya Shunker, a cognitive scientist who studies human behavior. On my podcast, A Slight Change of Plans, I marry science and storytelling to better understand how to navigate the big changes in our lives. It was like a slow nightmare, you know, because every day you think, oh, surely tomorrow I'll be better. And I would dream of being better.

At night I would dream that my face was quote unquote normal or back to the way it was. And I'd wake up and there'd be no change. I also speak with scientists about how we can be more resilient in the face of change. You can think of the adolescent brain as like the social R&D engine of our culture, that they're something that looks like risky and idiotic to us. It's maybe their way of creatively trying to solve the problem of having social success and fewer of the things that bring you social failure. Listen to A Slight Change of Plans on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen to podcasts.

So, y'all, this is Questlove, and I'm here to tell you about a new podcast I've been working on with the Story Pirates and John Glickman called Historical Records. It's a family-friendly podcast. Yeah, you heard that right. A podcast for all ages. One you can listen to and enjoy with your kids starting on September 27th. I'm going to toss it over to the host of Historical Records, Nimany, to tell you all about it. Make sure you check it out. Hey y'all, Nimany here. I'm the host of a brand new history podcast for kids and families called Historical Records. Historical Records brings history to life through hip-hop.

Flash, slam, another one gone. Bash, bam, another one gone. The crack of the bat and another one gone. The tip of the cap, there's another one gone. Each episode is about a different inspiring figure from history. Like this one about Claudette Colvin, a 15-year-old girl in Alabama who refused to give up her seat on the city bus nine whole months before Rosa Parks did the same thing. Check it.

And it began with me. Did you know, did you know? I wouldn't give up my seat. Nine months before Rosa, it was Claudette Goldman. Get the kids in your life excited about history by tuning in to Historical Records. Because in order to make history, you have to make some noise. Listen to Historical Records on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcast Akiba. I shook up the world. James Brown said, say it loud. And the kid said, I'm black and I'm proud.

Black boxing stars and black music royalty together in the heart of Zaire, Africa. Three days of music and then the boxing event. What was going on in the world at the time made this fight as important that anything else is going on on the planet. My grandfather laid on the ropes and let George Foreman basically just punch himself out. Welcome to Rumble, the story of a world in transformation. The 60s and prior to that, you couldn't call a person black. And how we arrived at this peak moment. I don't have to be what you want me to be.

We all came from the continent of Africa. Listen to Rumble, Ali, Foreman, and the Soul of 74 on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. On Thanksgiving Day, 1999, a five-year-old boy floated alone in the ocean. He had lost his mother trying to reach Florida from Cuba. He looked like a little angel. I mean, he looked so fresh. And his name, Elian Gonzalez, will make headlines everywhere. Elian Gonzalez. Elian. Elian.

Elian. Elian. Elian. Elian Gonzalez. At the heart of the story is a young boy and the question of who he belongs with. His father in Cuba. Mr. Gonzalez wanted to go home and he wanted to take his son with him. Or his relatives in Miami.

Imagine that your mother died trying to get you to freedom. At the heart of it all is still this painful family separation. Something that as a Cuban, I know all too well. Listen to Chess Piece, the Elian Gonzalez story, as part of the My Cultura podcast network, available on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. We got a few more questions on Boundaries,

another record I really enjoy. You say you got to set boundaries because everybody wants a piece of me. podcasts or wherever you get your podcasts. dealing with the part of me that people hardly see. I got to fall back and just get organized. That's just how I remember feeling that way specifically. Literally at that point in my life, when I got that loop from Key Wayne, I just was pouring my soul out. I wasn't even thinking about it. And I think it's important for people to recognize when they're at that point in their life of like having to step back and get organized. Because when you do, you're bringing your, obviously your best self to the situation. You're going to be 10 times more productive, 10 times happier, 10 times, or however many

times, you know, you're just going to be a way better, more efficient version of yourself if, as long as you're sharp and your heart is in it. And that's something that I didn't know if my heart was always in music, but I think I was overthinking it. It's not that it wasn't always in music. It just was I don't think I was all the way aligned with my heart at certain times in my life. I was too much in my head. I was overthinking

things or, you know, trying to thinking of and thinking things analytically through when sometimes to me, thinking is the lowest version of feeling something. Really, life is an intuitive thing as you feel through and overthinking it is definitely required in a lot of situations, but I feel like when you're being creative, and when you're experiencing the bliss and joys of life, is to feel it more so than think about it, you know? Absolutely.

On the Radar Freestyle, I spoke to my guy Gabe P, you chose to rap over Aaliyah if your girl only knew. You know, being a Detroit chose to rap over Aaliyah if your girl only knew. Being a Detroit native, what does Aaliyah mean, Neil? People don't know Aaliyah was from Detroit. She was like the queen of Detroit at that point because there was nobody in that 90s R&B really that was popping like Aaliyah, you know, all the songs with R. Kelly. And, you know, my stepbrother went to school with Aaliyah.

And I remember us picking him up from school and being like, yo, there go Aaliyah right there. She was like still going to school when she first started at DSA. So it was just cool to see that, you know what I'm saying? And to see, and you know, obviously it was such a tragedy when she died, but she definitely was like, to me as a Detroit icon, you know, and that's why I wanted to rap on her. I was rapping, I've been rapping on J Dilla Beast too and rapping on just like things that I feel like are important to keep like their...

Legacy alive. Yeah, you know what I mean? You referenced it earlier when you talked about the line, niggas looking for engagement like they got their knee bent. I got better things to do than find somebody to beef with. Everybody thought you was talking about Kendrick. My guy DJ Head said he spoke to you and he said that you wasn't talking about Kendrick. He was directed at another Gemini.

So I'm just assuming Kanye. Yeah, but that was the point. I was saying, like, I got better things to do than to beef with Kanye. Yeah. Got you. Yeah, but I didn't know. I'm just, like, talking my shit, really. That goes for anyone.

I mean, it could apply to anybody, yeah. That could apply to Ye, Kendrick whoever like I got better things to do than find someone to beef with I didn't say I want to find someone to beef with so to me it's like who the fuck matters who the fuck I'm talking about I said I don't

want that's not where I'm going I think the internet was gassing it up cause they wanted to see they want to see Kendrick go at somebody else. So if Kendrick and Sean is the next one, let's line it up. That's what I think was happening. I think people just were like, just looking for engagement. Like I said in the thing, people looking for engagement like they got their knee bent.

It's like, i don't think people give a fuck about especially these media outlets they don't give a fuck about me they don't give a fuck about kendrick neither they just looking for the that's it the click you know i'm not gonna say who i talk to but one of my homies who does like hip-hop journalism he was like bro i made the most money i ever made from this drake and Kendrick beef by just doing reaction videos and, like, talking about it. Then I have in 10 years of, like, doing hip-hop, right? Who was that, Rob Markman? My guy, Rob.

By the way, when you say hip-hop journalist, there's only two. There's only a couple of them, I think. Well, he is a real hip-hop journalist. He's the best. One of the hip hop journalist, there's only two, there's only a couple of them I think. So it's just like... Well, he is a real hip hop journalist. Oh, he's one of the best. He's the best. One of the best. Yeah, he is.

If not the best. Yeah, yeah, Rob Markman is like that guy. So, yeah, it was Rob Markman. Yeah. And he was just saying that like, it's not about like people giving, you know, man, I'd really be feeling weird like talking about, speaking on behalf of other people. That's like, I don be feeling weird Like talking about Speaking on behalf of other people That's like I don't know why

It's just not natural to me But It's something weird Like whatever But Yeah, yeah Who is the rappers That got matching tattoos?

And why you shooting Subliminals at them? Subliminal? Why is it a subliminal? I didn't know Who you was talking about I saw mad people Asking that question

Who's the rappers That got matching tattoos? So many rappers got matching tattoos. Why? They in the same crew or something? You can pull up the internet and be like rappers with matching tattoos. There has been times where I've been in a studio with like rappers that hated each other. And I'd be like, y'all niggas got a matching tattoo.

Like on purpose? Then they'll be back cool. Then they'll be back cool. Like on purpose matching tattoos? Like let's go down to the parlor together? I don't know, bro. I'm not there. But what i'm saying is i see it and i was just i wasn't necessarily throwing a subliminal at people who do that that's people got their own lives that they own

individuals i was talking about the industry in general that's why i said uh let me think what did i say right there i said man this industry is terrible. I can't even vouch. I seen grown men get matching tattoos for the cloud. I had train wrecks and kick home records out of my house. I seen a figure checks that once hit my account that showed me enough fulfilling dog is not an amount because I've been up and still hungry like I'm down for the count. So to me, I feel like Yeah, I mean, I pointed that out, but that's not me judging. I'm just pointing out a fact.

Yeah, yeah, yeah. So it's like, yeah, it's a fact that do people, yeah, Ye got matching tattoos with whoever. I don't know. And like, dude, Cudi and all these type of people got matching tattoos with other rappers and shit. I seen it. I don't think it's bad.

I don't even think that's wrong. I'm just pointing that out as a fact that, you know, that that's kind of like is what it is. You looking at somebody who somebody was telling you not to say something? No. Oh, hell no. Hell no. I saw Joe Budden say something like this. And it's something that people feel like it often feels like you don't stand up for how you actually feel about things and people.

You have these moments where you might throw a jab, but then you don't commit to it. What he mean by that? I think he was talking about what your disses. He feel like you throw these sneak disses, then they ask who you talking about, and you're like, oh, I'm not talking about nobody. Just for me- Sneak disses, though? Subliminals.

I would call them subliminals. Okay. And it's just like for me, it's like if you want to be... How many rappers be saying shit like, niggas stole my flow, da da da da da? Yeah, yeah, yeah. How many of you know be saying shit like that? Or like what? Everybody. All of them.

Right? Yeah, yeah. So why the fuck is it such a thing? Do I got to say somebody's name every time I'm just talking my shit? Like do I? I think they want to see you just commit one time. Like if you want to be in these elite rapper conversations. When have I ever not committed? That's what I'm trying to figure out.

When have I ever not committed? You saw this nigga Kendrick send that text and it said he you saw the text. I don't even want to paraphrase it. So when have I not stood up? Like when? Like anytime I got on a song I saw the text. I don't even want to paraphrase it. When have I not stood up? When?

Anytime I got on a song, I did it with whoever. Kendrick, Drake, J. Cole, Eminem, Jay-Z, like, yay. I'm trying to figure out, in what context do you mean like on control i don't know if it was control i just think it's just in general i think it was that leaked kendrick verse that people are like yo why didn't you say anything when he said you're finally famous for who you date and whoever boy or whatever he said now they know what confidence but i just don't give a fuck because it's like i talked to the nigga about it yeah i'm not a clout chasing ass nigga and i must be solid if it was a real issue if he would have texted and be like yeah nigga no that's what it is and i would have been

like all right for sure then that's what it is and i would have had to come with my bars but that's not the case so if it's not but that's not the case so if it's not if that's not the case then how am i doing anything but being solid i think after people see this conversation they'll understand the context of why you have never said anything directly and they'll understand that maybe a lot of these subliminals that they think are for one person aren't necessarily for that person right but i But I don't know how... I'm also not ducking shit. I'm not trying to say that they not for anyone.

Anyone can get it, bro. That's a fact. Anyone can get it. And I'm not sitting here trying to talk tough. I'm just saying, like, I'm never... I don't know where this fucking narrative... I think it's the lack of me not expressing or controlling my narrative. That's on me of like, yeah, like, oh yeah, he said this or that, but I've

always just been solid enough to come to the understanding that whatever I have between that person, that's what it is. Instead of like having to clarify with everyone. But the fact that you brought it up and we sitting down, like, I'm definitely down to talk about it, you know what I mean, or whatever.

So, basically, if somebody really had an issue, you'd be at their front door with it. Nobody's ever really truly had an issue. No, only if I thought

it was worth it. Okay. Only if I thought, like, you know, if you... Are there a list of MCs, the same way you wrote down a list of labels you wanted to sign to? Are there a list of MCs you would be like, you know, are there are there a list of emcees the same way you wrote down a list of labels you want to decide to?

Are there a list of emcees? You would be like, OK, I got something for this person, that person, that person. Could these three are worth it? No, because I don't think like that. But I mean, I'm not. There's nothing that's off limits, but you kind of also have to like I can't just like take. Someone like a new artist or like as serious as like one of my peers that I came up with you know what I'm saying like I feel like you at least have to sell 100 million records so the big three anybody in the in the so-called big three can get it yeah of course they can get it bro but it's like that's not my that's not the point of it that's not like yeah they can get it just like if you asked any of them they would be like yeah he could get it if he you know what i'm

saying if it was that's what it was yeah i'm not about to be like no is there still a big three after what we just saw this year because kendrick said it there's no big three it's just big me has hip-hop i don't know about been changed restructured so to speak big three or big me i don't know about... Been changed? Restructured, so to speak? Big three or big me? I don't know, man. To me, I never really thought it was a big three. I kind of feel like that was a journalistic thing that got made up.

I don't know who made that up. Joe? Was it Elliot? I don't know. Someone? I have no idea. Yeah. It's always been like that, though. For years. I think that no idea yeah I think it's always been it's always been

like that though I think that music is more expansive than it's ever been so it's like it's so many people that can have a great fan base that it's impossible for it to just be a big three because you look at all of these like you got people like even a boogie who's like he has his own lane and he's doing arenas and all sorts of shit and you got people like even A Boogie, who's like, he has his own lane and he's doing arenas and all sorts of shit. Then you got people like Eminem, who when I was talking to Paul Rosenberg, he's literally the most popular he's ever been, like statistically. So it's like, is Eminem in the big three?

Actually, Jay-Z made up the big three now that I think about it. When he said, who's the best MCs? Biggie, Jay-Z, or Nas. Oh, okay. So it's always been like that for different eras. It's always got to be like three. But to your point, it's never been just three. Because Pac could have easily have been in, at that time, Biggie, Jay-Z, and Nas. You had to put Pac in there.

Well, because Pac was a bigger artist. Yeah. Right? Yeah, absolutely. I don't know, man. I kind of think, oh, that shit doesn't matter, personally. And not just because people be like, oh, man. I kind of think all that shit doesn't matter personally. And not just because people be like, oh, he's not in it. He thinks it doesn't matter.

I just think that none of that's important. I think to just put out your best music. Is Tyler the creator in a situation of the big three? A big three? Is it like different sections of big threes? Yeah. But my point being is that I think I just want to focus on the music

and not worry about my place in if I'm on a list or not. You know what I'm saying? I think that that's when you start being too analytical with it and just do your shit. Do your art. Do your...

Express yourself. You know what I mean? So to me, it's not really a focus. I got three more questions. You got a book coming out. Yeah. Titled Go Higher, Five Practices for Purpose, Success, and Inner Peace. What made you want to write a self-help book as opposed to a memoir?

Oh, look. Here, I have a copy of the book for you. Thank you. Hey. I like how you took your shoes off before you walked in this bitch too. So this is a readers. This is like, I need that by the way. Yeah, advanced readers edition. So there might be like a typo or

two because I read I read the book. I mean, I wrote the book obviously, but I read it through like three or four times and this even on this one. I'm like yo, y'all it's like, it through like three or four times and this even on this one i'm like yo y'all it's like it's like a typo what page is that anyway you'll see but this isn't the final final final version like it's been swept through but this is basically the but i wanted to give it to you last i need this last reader's edition copy and what made me want to write a book well so i did an interview with jay shetty and at the end of it he was like you got to write a book was so i did an interview with jay shetty and at the end of it he was like you got to write a book bro he was like telling you i've never said

that to anyone after an interview but he was like there's so many people that come from where you come from that didn't have those guys and angels like your mom and these people that taught you to manifest that taught you to live you know how, how to figure out how to have faith, how to have a foundation of consciousness to get from point A to point B, point C, point D. Like he was like, you got to like map that out for people that come from where you come from and that look like you that didn't have that, right? So when he said that, I always wanted to do it.

I always thought it was the thing i was going to do later in my life you know like 20 years down the line you know but i realized that you know time is is relative like you got to get it get it get it out you know if you have the message so i sat down started it took a couple years you know what i'm saying but i do feel like it's a it's a uh what's the right word it's it's a book that you could keep returning to like some of my favorites like the four agreements classic seven spiritual laws all of these things that i've read and kind of like gathered all these gems and applied what i learned from, I incorporate it in a book and I talk about how I incorporate it. I talk about a lot of parts in my career and a lot of things that I've seen and just

like other experiences too. So it's really helpful, I think, and I think that it's going to improve anyone who reads it. I think there's something to take away. See, I feel like that's the next level of hip-hop. Like, when I look at books like this, when I look at albums like Mr. Morale and the Big Stepper, when I look at Jay-Z 444, when I hear the things that you're doing on your album, the Break the Cycle and Boundaries,

that's what the next 50 years of hip-hop looks like to me. Yeah. Like, I heard Will Smith say one time, you know, damn, 50 years is a long childhood. Wow. So imagine what the adulthood of hip-hop is going to look like. Yeah, and it's like that, just that mindset, right? Of progression, ownership, balance.

Conversations about healing. Conversations about healing. You talk to me about the stuff that you've experienced with your dad. You know what I'm saying? I talked before the interview about stuff I experienced with my dad. And it's just like they lived a completely different life than us. And I know you got four kids. I got one kid.

And I wonder what the progression of the next generation is going to be as far as just like first of all i this is for my son's generation especially it's like i wonder like what it's like growing up with these like iphones and ipads and all this shit in your face because i feel like my generation our generation per, it was like the last one that like didn't have that growing up, but we saw it all come about, you know what I'm saying? So it's like, I don't know how that's going to affect him for better or worse. And I don't know how fast the technology is going to keep progressing. So, but my point being is that going back to our fathers, you know, my dad from Monroe, Louisiana, grew up in probably one of the most racist setback places back then when he grew up to where you get your ass beat if you're on the wrong side of the train tracks.

And he grew up in an abusive household and he had a stuttering problem. And I really think that that was tied to that. And he ended up working through speech therapy and getting rid of his stutter, which I really admire him for. I think he's a lot of people can't do that. But I think that the trauma that he has had in his life has been something that I've had to heal in my life. These things get passed down just like how, oh, like the way I wink, you know, my kid or, you know, my son, my daughter wink like that or like, oh, he's his smile or, you know, all these traits that we pass on. Oh, I have a mark like that or all these things. Right. It's like you pass on the trauma to you, pass on the work you haven't done.

Absolutely. So I think that that's like the fact that we are being more conscious of that. That's the importance of working on. So that's something I do talk about in my book, too. But that's the importance. Not just for the people who have kids. It's like, oh, I don't have to work on myself. No, it's like when you see how interconnected the whole planet is, how we all connected. That's right. Even when you're on the freeway, like when we leave here and we go on the freeway, we're going to see everyone working and being in synchronization and that's one of the most

basic levels of realizing that we're all really connected and aligned in a sense so when you do work on yourself it's a chain reaction that spreads way more than you could you know to me at least that you could imagine and that's that's what i believe for real how has the work and finally recognizing your own value influenced the way you currently navigate your career versus how you did in the past it kind of just is a constant checking with myself and i kind of just have to like reaffirm and like have to like say what i'm comfortable with when i'm not comfortable with what i'm not comfortable with, what I want to do, what I don't want to do. And really just be clear about the artists you want to be or what you want to

put out there. And I don't know if that means like, I know that I'm the most successful I've ever been. And when I say successful, it's like the most happy I've ever been when it comes to like being an artist. And that's what success is. That's what success is, though. That's what success is. It's happiness.

Yeah. And I do be stressed out. Like I said when we started, I do be feeling overwhelmed because I do try and do all I can, but that is what it is. But I do feel like the career, I do put in perspective my career and like what I'm comfortable with and what I'm not. As opposed to like just doing everything like I used to. My last question for people that's watching, listening. How do you know when you've gotten to a point of clarity?

How do you know you got into a point of clarity? Man, that's a great feeling. It's a feeling of inspiration. And it's a feeling of, I don't know. To me, I feel like I feel unstoppable. I feel like anything that's on my heart is possible. And I don't always feel like that. Clarity isn't something that is a constant thing.

It's something that, that's why when I made those graphs for the album Better Me Than You, it's like, it's a constant journey that goes from pressure to clarity to focus to happiness because, you know, you get the pressure or I'm sorry, pressure, focus, clarity, happiness. You get the pressure and you get that pressure and then you focus and then you're able to find some clarity and then you find that happiness, you know. So to me, when I'm in the state of clarity I feel all is possible I feel all is welcomed and I feel that it's like an endless it's like a it's like a um endless possibilities a field of infinite opportunities you know what I

mean and that's that's an exciting feeling when I'm thinking of it. In fact, you asking that has kind of given me that feeling now. I locked onto that vibrationally just now and it's like an awesome feeling. So I appreciate you asking that question. Thank you for your time, my brother.

Better me than you. It's out what, August? Well, I just pushed the motherfucking date back. It was supposed to be August 9th, but I pushed the motherfucking date back. You pushed it back? Oh my God. It was supposed to be August 9th, but I'm going to do

later on in August. It's just, the only reason I pushed it back is because DJ Premier hit me like, yo, these scratches on this song

aren't loud enough and stuff like that. To where I'm like, look, just get the shit right all the way. What? I'm not about to

be trying to replace stuff when it's out and stuff. Just even if it's just a couple of weeks, like just get it all the way locked in. Mix is right. Master is right. Mix by Ali. Me and Ali going back and forth on some mixes. Not all the way. The master is not.

So, you know, it's probably going to be a couple of weeks after, but it's all good. My brother. Thank you. No, thank you. it's probably going to be a couple of weeks after, but it's all good. My brother. Thank you. No, thank you. Great conversation. Appreciate you. Yeah.

Hey, I'm Jack. These Thomas, the host of a brand new black effect, original series, black lit the podcast for diving deep into the rich world of black literature. Black lit is for the page turners. Black Lit, the podcast for diving deep into the rich world of Black literature. Black Lit is for the page turners, for those who listen to audiobooks while running errands or at the end of a busy day. From thought-provoking novels to powerful poetry, we'll explore the stories that shape our culture.

Listen to Black Lit on the Black Effect Podcast Network, iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Hi, I'm Marie. And I'm Sydney. And we're Mess. Well, not a mess, but on our podcast called Mess, we celebrate all things messy. But the gag is, not everything is a mess. Sometimes it's just living. Yeah, things like J-Lo on her third divorce.

Living. Girls trip to Miami. Mess. Breaking up with your girlfriend while on Instagram Live. Living. It's kind of a mess. Yeah. Well, you get it.

Got it? Live, love, mess. Listen to Mess with Sydney Washington and Marie Faustin on iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Hey, y'all. Nimany here. iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. historical records brings history to life through hip-hop. Each episode is about a different inspiring figure from history, like this one about Claudette Colvin, a 15-year-old girl in Alabama who refused to give up her seat on the city bus

nine whole months before Rosa Parks did the same thing. Check it. And it began with me. Did you know, did you know? I wouldn't give up my seat. Nine months before Rosa, it was called a goldmine. Get the kids in your life excited about history by tuning in to Historical Records. Because in order to make history, you have to

make some noise. Listen to Historical Records on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.