The Breakfast Club - Out Of Context: LL Cool J And Charlamagne Tha God

Episode Date: July 12, 2024

Charlamagne Tha God sits with the Icon LL Cool J to discuss his illustrious 40 year career. From being hip hop's first solo superstar, learning how to rap again, the infamous battle and friction he's had with Jay Z, his various rap beefs and run in with ICE T, the legacy of Russell Simmons and Def Jam, surviving the streets of NYC in the 90's, and why objectively he should be on everyone's Top 5 of all time list. See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

Hey, what's up? This is Ramses Jha. And I go by the name Q Ward. And we'd like you to join us each week for our show, Civic Cipher. That's right. We discuss social issues, especially those that affect black and brown people, but in a way that informs and empowers all people. We discuss everything from prejudice to politics to police violence, and we try to give you the tools to create positive change in your home, workplace, and social circle.

We're going to learn how to become better allies to each other. So join us each Saturday for Civic Cipher on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast. LL Cool J. Peace, my brother. How are you, man? Good. I want to set my intentions for this conversation before we get started. I want people to watch this conversation, and when it's over, I want them to say to themselves, damn, objectively, regardless how they may feel personally, who's their personal favorites, objectively, you can't have any top five greatest of all time discussions without mentioning LL Cool J. Yo, I take that all day, man. I can't argue with that. And one of the reasons I say that is because you are by far hip-hop's first major superstar. People could say you are the prototype for what became the formula for success in rap.

You had the streets, you had the women, and you had songs for both of them. So with that said, why do you think LL Cool J isn't in those conversations? Well, I would say, you know, first of all, I feel like, first of all, let me just say, I feel appreciated and I feel respected and I feel loved. I think that, you know, in any art form, in any genre, you know, ultimately, you know, there are different dynamics at work when people hear people like, so, you know, the internet ushered in a different, came in during a different era. So it documented things on a different level. So some people who weren't there to necessarily witness certain things might not be aware, but my job, like, is not to really harp on what people don't know is to show them

what they should know and teach them what they should know. Right. So it's like, that's the whole point of me making new music just to get out there to let them see what it's like to have me on the court so to speak you know saying to see me out there balling and the difference is you know this isn't sports this is art and in art you know it's about the mind the soul the emotions you be connected to what you create. So you could do that at a high level at any point. And I think that's my, that's my goal. And my objective right now is to just show people that you can take a hiatus from something, do it, do something else, and then reemerge and do it at a high level. So, you know, we'll get to it. They'll learn. Most, most critics will consider it risky though, because of your icon status to release a new album

so long after your last one. What would you say? I'd say that's the whole point. That's the fun part of it. It's like, listen, there is no great artist, great athlete, or great... Anybody that's great at anything, you cannot be great if you're not willing to be vulnerable. This vulnerability comes from having the strength and the courage to go after what it is that you want and risk looking foolish in the process.

LeBron doesn't get the last shot. Steph Curry doesn't take the last shot if he's worried about his legacy, right? Kobe don't take the last shot if he's worried about his legacy. LeBron stops playing three, four years ago if he's worried about his legacy. But because he wants to push the envelope,

you're having a conversation, look at what this guy can do in year 20, look at what he can do in year five, right? You see what I'm saying? So to me, it's like that's the fun of it. Like, I love that challenge. I love, like, I'm, that's what makes it worth it. All right, all right, all right.

You know what I mean? So what is legacy to LL Cool J? Yo, I got to, you know what's funny, man? You know, nobody gets a chance to come back and say, yo, correct my tombstone. You know what I mean? Like, yo, yo, that's not what I meant. Nah. So it's like none of us really know what our legacy is because why do we know that?

Because if you put a picture of a glass of water on the Internet, they're going to argue over that. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Right? People drowned in it in it no people used it to sustain life people water plants with it nah people so i don't it doesn't matter what matters is what you do in the moment you know what i'm saying what are you doing in the moment right now with your life you know what i'm saying so what i want to do is just maximize my potential. Then you let the world decide all that. There'll be generations after us that can have all them debates and all them conversations. But you got to pop your shit a little bit, though. Without a doubt.

Because you see these top five lists, and there's people that came after you, that they'll put on the top five list, and it's almost like, you know, they're discrediting you in a sense. So you got to care about the recognition. Well, I do care about the recognition. No, no. So you got to care about the recognition. Well, I do care about the recognition. No, no, no. I definitely care about the recognition. No, no.

Absolutely. I just, like, you know what I'm saying? It's like sometimes you hear Floyd say, yo, everybody's entitled to their opinion. That's really how I feel. Like, I really don't care about that shit, man. Like, if that's who you like, that's who you like. Maybe, like, you know what I mean? Like my job is to to touch the people who love l and who fuck with l not to be

worried about who messes with this one or that one like you understand what i'm saying like i it doesn't it doesn't affect my my spirit or my vibe because if it did listen man to get the way I've been in life and to get do the things I do you gotta have thick skin bro like you know I'd have I'd have been in a ball with a with my thumb in my mouth and a blankie a long time ago if I was really worried about these lists and people's opinions because nothing is ever going to be perfect you know I mean so look I think that um history will shine kindly on me. You know, at the end of the day, like, you got to remember, like, you're talking to, look, Def Jam had, it was Def Jam Productions.

The label was Party Time Streetwise. They had a song by Tila Rock called It's Yours. I bought that song. I took it, made a demo a demo sent it into Rick Rubin me Russell and Rick we ended up starting Def Jam it was their label I was the flagship artist

so everything that came after me you know my first you're talking to a guy whose first single dropped in 84 and I'm still like Relevant in the world globally. I can't I can't complain and and if you think about everybody that came after Def Jam out of Def Jam on Def Jam something like I mean

We a lot basically ushered in the whole modern era of hip-hop, right? Absolutely. And grew up watching Flash and the Treacherous and the Crash Crew and the Fearless Form was at those parts, like, at their shows and seeing them and listening to the tapes and the blends and the mixes. So I've been a fan from day one and then helped usher in a new era as well. So I don't really have any beef, you know?

I feel real good about my standing in this culture. I wanted to ask you about Def Jam, too, because as you just mentioned, you were a staple at Def Jam. And I always thought they should have renegotiated your contract to make you more of an owner. But I own my whole catalog. Oh, okay, okay. I own my whole catalog. When you see Mama Said Knock You Out in a movie, I license that.

Okay, all right. You know what I'm saying? Like, people, you know, people are under the impression, oh, boy. Like, listen, man. Because that was the time back in the day when artists were getting got. Nah, but see, not all artists. Okay. That speaks, that's not a broad, general thing.

That speaks to certain executives taking advantage of certain people. One thing I can say about Russell and Leor Look and Russell he didn't make the bad deal early and then Leo he drives a hard bargain But he'll give it to you when you're earning. Mmm It knows what I can't front on the guy people could say what they want about him But at the end of the day I do own my catalog and I do you know, you know have a huge interest You know in what I do it, you know what I mean? Yeah, huge interest, you know, in what I do. You know what I mean?

Yeah, there's other samples and different things, but I own all my stuff. So it's like I can't complain. Was that the Kobe deal for you? Like, did they give you that? Because like, OK, this was our franchise artist. This is the guy who put us on the map here to take all your masters and everything. Well, it wasn't really that. It was I was at a point where I was um My deal was up and we had you know It was like we got to find a way to make it right so and justify our relationship

and we just made a good deal and that was part of it, so you know, I'm I'm good like you know, I mean like I really am in a good place in that in that way You know I'm saying not to mention all the other things that I do as well so you know i can't are we gonna get into that yeah do you feel slighted that it took uh so long for them to put you in the rock and roll hall of fame not really because i understand that a major part of my appeal you know especially in some especially on a commercial level was was geared towards women. It was black women or women of all races. But it was like black women, a lot of different.

And because of that, you know, you just got some dudes that, you know, you know, that ain't you know, they want you to, you know, if you ain't burning a flag or, you know, being a rebel in a different way, they want to not necessarily give that. You know, everybody doesn't recognize the, the, the, the, the, the artistry that comes with that. They think it's like, there's some kind of trick to that, but there isn't, you got to really make them songs. They don't, they don't see the value in it. Yeah. You got to really write. I need love. You have to really write around the way, girl, like you really got to write these songs. You got to write lounge. You got to write doing it. You can't just, you know, that doesn't just show up because you took your shirt off. Like you, you know, I take my shirt off. You know, the song is bullshit when I took my shirt off.

Like that doesn't work like that. Like you actually have to write the songs. So, you know, I mean, like, so for some of them dudes in the, in the hall of fame at that time, especially when you hear in retrospect, cause that was an old regime. Remember that's not the new regime, the new regime they're, they're rocking, you know what I'm saying? But that was an old regime. Remember that's not the new regime the new regime there They're rocking, you know saying but that was another guy and he had a whole nother mindset. So that's interesting So you saying that they probably didn't respect the art like they should have because of your sex symbol status Yes, that's crazy. You know you hear that conversation from women. You don't really hear that from a man's perspective Oh, it's real though. It's real. It's like, you know, like, it's just part of the game, right? Like, at that time, like, in terms of those songs, you know what I'm saying? Like, they want, you know, fight the power and only fight the power.

You know what I mean? Respectfully. You know what I'm saying? Like, they, you know, just think about who got in and why. Yeah. With sex sells. Yeah. But that's not necessarily, you let me let's keep it real me if um

If you got a dude that feels like he's living his life making a pinky promise The last thing the last thing he wants to do is put you know the young bull in the frame Hey, honey. Hey. Hey, honey, look at this guy. That's crazy. Yeah, let's, you know what I mean? Let's keep him out of the light as long as possible. Yeah, yeah, let's not, you know what I mean?

Let's not, you know what I mean? Oh, man. Does it feel, well, how does it feel? Love that remix. That's great. So as you kept your shirt on more, when they felt comfortable. It would have been a lot easier. It would have been a lot easier bro. Like shirts on and you know. Then you wouldn't have had the women.

It's like, well whatever you know. It's like you know, like showing up to a cocktail party with your tuxedo open in a six pack with your shirt It probably won't go over well with some parts of the crowd, but you embrace the door like I always who's he? Is crazy but you embrace the door like I always heard method man say he shunned his sex symbol status you embrace Absolutely, I loved it Remember the man say he shunned his sex symbol status. You embraced it. You're goddamn right. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Absolutely. I loved it. Yeah, why not?

Yeah. There ain't no shame in my... Listen. Listen, man. When I grew up, you know, I grew up liking the girls, liking, you know, and, you know, I thought, you know, that was our goal as kids. You know? Right, right, right. We wasn't, like, in it to not have them. Yeah, absolutely. You know what I. You know, we wasn't like in it to not have them.

Yeah, absolutely. You know what I mean? I wasn't in it to not have no girl. That's right. Like, you know, it wasn't like I was running around doing everything, but I definitely was looking. Absolutely. And was interested.

Absolutely. You know what I mean? So that's the way I look at it. You know what I mean? You know, does it feel strange that this generation may know you more from NCIS than your music? Speaking of. No, actually, it's an amazing thing because speaking actually it's it's an it's an amazing thing because it's like it just it's proof that you could do anything that you could reinvent

yourself on so many different levels and you know look I got two crowds man I got two crowds when it comes to me to my audience what musically it's the don't call it a comeback crowd who absolutely knows what I do and it's the he raps crowd right I'm very aware of both of them I know when somebody's looking at me they're like oh he raps you know oh he hosts it I like his show I love it all it's like but music is my first love you know I'm saying music's my first love but nah that doesn't because look at the end of the day see when you hear artists like bitching and moaning and crying and complaining about generations not knowing them it's like man make a record you know make some music then you got a problem with people not knowing you for

something then do something about it make some music you want to sit over here crying they gotta know and you know art the arts are kind of there is a what have you done for me lately factor that always plays into art as it moves through the through the continuum of time you know i'm saying so there are going to be certain generations that are not as aware if you're not current and if you don't put out current shit so my job is ll Cool J is to put out a current album and give them a current idea of what I think artistically which will cause them to look back at some of the things and go digging to go google my shit and get into my older videos and get into my early stuff they can get that history but you got to do some new shit you know I'm saying like no excuses you can't you know

um you know you know like I said on one of my songs on passion, I was like, no excuses. You better be easy and ruthless. You know, a bunch of paper tigers all toothless. You know, that Tony Montana blueprint is useless. Some people ignore facts. The nigga in Scarface fell on the map. We just act like we don't see that. You know, ask him where the weed at or eliminate mids when the speakers get the feedback. You know what I mean? Like, it's just like you gotta,

you just gotta step into the shit that you do. Does that make sense? Absolutely. You just answered one of my questions because I was going to ask you about, you know, something Mephiman recently said after a performance at Summer Jam

and he said the generation gap was too wide for him. And I was going to ask you, do you ever feel like you need to make, you feel the need to make music to appeal to? This generation no, okay. You have to make art. That's true to you. Okay. Yeah, you know, it's true to you I don't need like for those who understand the reference. I don't need the Golden Girls to be acting like Nicki Minaj You don't want me blanched working

So I don't need to get my little Uzi bird on and shit my little yachting on for them You know, I gotta be me and they'll they'll find it You know say listen at the end of the day if I'm 16 years old or from 19 or from 20 The only way the only way you going to get my attention is by pressing play on some shit and that shit is hot to me. None of that other shit matters. I don't give a fuck what you did. I don't care how you did it. I don't care what you started, what you didn't start,

how you... Is that shit hot? If it's hot to me, I'm good. I'm in. If it ain't, I'm not fucking with it. It's that simple. And that's life. You know what I'm in if it ain't no fucking with it. It's that simple and that's that's the this That's life. You know I'm saying so a Lot of these are like like meth like you know, that's my man. I love him He's super nice his flow crazy. My thing with him is is that I get what he's saying

It was the it was the station's job to kind of Think about that when they were curating it so that it's seamless to help them out you know i'm saying you know you got to put the p you got to line the pieces up right you know i'm saying you got to line them pieces up right because that audience could get into their music but they have to it has to be sandwiched the right way and presented the right way to give the audience an opportunity to rock with them because this shit is dope if look if mick jagger can run around at 80 years old and have four generations in his show,

like even me with my Force tour, I'm running around, I got three, four generations in the crowd. But those kids were introduced to the music by somebody. It was laid out for them a certain way. We did the Grammy 50th anniversary. We had Glorilla and Lil Baby on the same stage with Public Enemy, run DMC and flash It's doable. It's all about how you do it. You know, I mean, it's about execution like anything else

No, I'm saying whatever time you would just hop disheartened by the state of hip-hop Well Yeah, I would say I would say there was a moment when I felt like right before I started Rock the Bells and really started, you know, like because people have to realize like this whole timeless resurgence that people are feeling, you know, that's because I put it on my back with Rock the Bells and Rock the Bells Radio and went out there and said, you know, I'm going to throw festivals. I'm going to do things. I'm going to lift these acts up and those who are open and allowed themselves to receive the blessing will be lifted up Right. So I felt like our music was our culture was being commoditized You know I'm saying I felt like you know If Mick Jagger can be respected and if Bruce Springsteen can be respected

There's so can rock him and so can Chuck D and so can you know countless others Queen lots you name them and so that was a moment but I did something about it see I'm a big believer in you know don't talk about it be about it and if you have an issue if you got something that's a problem to you address that shit you know I'm saying it dudes be you know crying and bitching and moaning then go home and sleep you know get high smoke some weed cry some more the next day get high again absolutely cry some more it's like nah if you got a problem do something about it so I did something about it and I think that it really worked it led to all of the things you see from you know you know dreying them all of them rocking and killing the super bowl to all these artists and this resurgence you see it you know, Dre and them, all of them rocking and killing the Super Bowl to all these artists and this resurgence.

You see it, you know, different artists doing all these things that all emanated from that decision that I made with Rock the Bell. So, again, you're welcome. You know what I'm saying? But that was the vibe. You know what I mean? Do something about it. If you have an issue and that's in life in general. If you find you passionate about something or angry or frustrated about something lean into That shit that's your calling Let's expound on that because I had a question about rock the bells man When you look back at the version of yourself who recorded the song rock the bells Mm-hmm

Now you look at the man you are today and the rock the bells Brand you've created that you were just talking about the demand in that booth recording the song rock the bells back in the 80s Envision this hell no, okay Did the man in that booth recording the song Rock the Bells back in the 80s envision this? Hell no. Okay. Hell no. What's the connection between the two? Why did you choose to use that song title for this brand above all the other songs? Well, a few times. A few things.

It was a few things. First of all, the dude back then, he just wanted some new sneakers, some cars, and some jewelry. I was very simple. Pretty easy to, you know, maybe a little red lobster or something. That was fine dining back in the day, though. The finest. It was the finest. They might have been playing hockey with the steak in the kitchen,

but we felt great about the shit. You know what I mean? But as far as why that name, it started off with those guys who originally had the Rock the Bells Festival. Originally, they had they took my song. You know, a lot of things come from me like rock the vote. That's right. You know, a lot of things come. So so those guys, they had Rock the Bells. And then so that was cool. I didn't say nothing. I left it alone. And then one day they called me up and they offered me, you know, let's just let's just call it ten dollars for a show.

Let's just call it that. I think the performance show called rock the bells yeah and when they when that when that when that when when my team told me that i was looking at the phone i said i want my ip back it just it fucked me up it was like it just it rubbed me wrong you know i mean so i just went and took the ip back you know i said yeah let me get that and, yeah, let me get that. And then I said, you know what I mean? Then I said, yo, let me. You did that fly like that intruder that came in your house back in the day. You know what I mean? You told Tony quick.

Motherfucker. Fuck out of here. So I took it back and then we started rolling with it. So that's really the real reason why it ended up being that song it could have been any song but that my inspiration came from that first first I felt like oh like listen It's kind of like You know like, you know people take kindness for weakness and sometimes they take leniency for stupidity

I'm being lenient with you so you think I'm stupid. Yeah, yeah, yeah. You know what I mean? You being so lenient that they're going to call you to come perform at your house. You're really a sucker. Like, you know, I kind of thought you were, but now, yeah, let me call you.

So I was like, you know what? I took it back. So anyway, I say that to say that's why it ended up being Rock the Bells. But my desire to lift up those other artists and to see them respected and elevated that came from me, you know what I'm saying? And lifting that up.

And obviously the song was, you know, my shit, you know? So that's what it was. Hey, what's up? This is Ramses job.

And I go by the name Q ward. And we'd like you to join us each week for our show civic cipher. That's right. We're going to discuss social issues, especially those that affect black and brown people, but in a way that informs and empowers all people to hopefully create better allies think of it as a black show for non-black people we discuss everything from prejudice to politics to police violence and we try to give you the tools to create positive change in your home workplace and social circle exactly whether you're black asian, white, Latinx, indigenous, LGBTQIA+, you name it.

If you stand with us, then we stand with you. Let's discuss the stories and conduct the interviews that will help us create a more empathetic, accountable, and equitable America. You are all our brothers and sisters, and we're inviting you to join us for Civic Cipher each and every Saturday with myself, Ramses Jha, Q Ward, and some of the greatest minds in America. Listen to Civic Cipher every Saturday on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. It's impossible to talk about you as just a hip hop artist in regards to people who have helped the culture move forward because of all the success you've had you know in television and in film so so how important was your your appearance in crush groove to your career launching to another level and taking hip-hop to another level so crush groove that the the movie the film it was

about russell's life and run dmc's life and it was hugely important first of all the only reason there was two things first of all i overslept for my i can't live without my radio video because i was hanging out all night doing, or at a show. I had a show. So I didn't wake up in the morning. So Russell's screaming and all that. So the video didn't happen. Then, after that, I wasn't even supposed to be in that movie.

In the movie Crush Groove. I was an extra. I went down there. My man, Cornell, man, he rest in peace. He used to tell me, yo, go down there every day. Go down the set i'm like you know what yeah you're right because i'm you know i had left home when i was 16 i you know my grandmother didn't understand me pursuing my music i'm sleeping on the train i'm like you know i got my green bags on the train i'm riding around trying to figure out what i'm gonna do next then i um went and um so i was going out to the set

every day because i'm you know it was either that or stay in the basement with a bunch of roaches I was like fuck it let me go down to the set every day so I was going down there to set and um one thing left to it led to another I'm down there you know I'm saying talking this and that and then finally they gave me a little part I was talking that shit and um the rest is. It launched me because it you know It was like having a national video on a national platform So it would be the equivalent of whatever you can think of now as a national platform for your first visual for people to see first the first time and you know it blew up from there the album ended up going platinum and You know good things happen be absolutely it worked out for everybody when you about movies and music, what's your favorite movie project of your career?

My favorite movie? Probably In Too Deep and Deep Blue Sea. Love In Too Deep. Yeah. Classic. I told you that before. Yeah. God is a very underrated black movie villain.

Oh, yeah. He's a motherfucker. You know what I'm saying? Yeah, yeah, yeah. You talk about Odo, Bishop. Oh, yeah. You got to put God movie villain. Oh, yeah. You know what I'm saying? Yeah, yeah, yeah. They talk about O'Donnell, Bishop. You got to put God in there. Oh, yeah. He was, yeah, it was real.

Everybody should check that one out. In too deep. Yeah, it was crazy. Now, let's get into the album, Spirit of Cyrus. Yeah. Right? The album's called Force, but the intro, Spirit of Cyrus. First of all, you know, you address police brutality out the gate.

Who is Cyrus Cyrus and what inspired you to address the injustice cops display to black people right out the gate? Okay, so the name of the album is The Force. It's an acronym, right? Frequency is a real creative energy and Cyrus, you know, I mean people could go into history with it, but we were talking

really about, you know, the warriors and Cyrus and this guy who was trying to bring all of these people together and see good things happen in his community even though it was coming from him being a gang leader him being all of these different things and um you know he ended up going out now that was a metaphor for the guy that the story was based on because i was inspired to write the song based on a guy named christopher dor. He was an LAPD cop who felt like he was being oppressed. And the reason why I got into the song is because when I was doing NCIS,

it used to be people at high levels of law enforcement. I had some friends at high levels because I did a show for so many years. This dude called me up. He's like, yo, L or Todd, yo, what's up? Don't come outside. I'm like, don't come outside. The fuck did I do? Right. I ain't do nothing. He's like, no, you don't understand. And he sent me a picture of Christopher Dorner.

And when I saw it and he said, look, they're looking to take this guy dead or alive and it might not be alive. So don't come out because you could be mistaken for him. When I saw the picture, I realized how real that was. And so I went down the rabbit hole and then I ended up writing a song because I knew that there were people that would relate to both sides of that story. And I said, you know what, I'm going to write this song. And I was inspired. Me and, me and, um, tip me a cute chip. We're in the studio and he had all of these wild synths and these, this track that sounded crazy. And I just ended up writing that song. And the rest is history, but it's true. It's based on a true event, and it was inspired by true events,

and it was a dude who had had enough, and he exploded. And he was addressing police brutality, blue on blue brutality, like all of it. And so I wrote the song. Did you have anybody do any pushback? Like, no I love that might affect what you got going on in Hollywood That might affect what you got going on in television. You can't you know, say that about the police Well, I gotta be true to the art on this one. It's not like I was Condoning or pushing it away. I was just letting being a channel to the art

You know I'm saying it doesn't invite it doesn't incite a person one way or the other. It's art. It's like a painting. It's up to you to look at it and see or hear what you want to hear. You know, obviously I played law enforcement for years, but I've also had bad experiences too as a kid growing up. So it's both, right? So I think the song addresses both.

And I think that, you know, anybody that's honest and objective can just listen to it. It is what it is. Like, it's a song. How much responsibility do artists have to address social issues? I don't think that's an artist's...

An artist is not... That's not a prerequisite. That's just like saying, you know, when Michelangelo sculpted David did he have a responsibility to deal with men's health you know I mean because he got the dude naked and dude standing there naked like he's a Michelangelo has no address like you know artists see what people fail to realize is creating art that is popular doesn't necessarily mean that you have evolved in other areas and are necessarily inspired or educated by or in terms of other areas you know i'm saying so

you got to let an artist be an artist and if you you're going to have people out there who are very socially conscious who care about this stuff and they will appeal to certain people but you can't just say it's your responsibility that doesn't work because that's not just either you know I'm saying you got to let people be who they are you know you know that's like you know like saying like you know you can't put red in your hair because you have people that are triggered by red you can't really live your life like that. You know what I mean? So, nah, I think artists should do what they really feel. For real, but what they really feel.

Like this album is what I really feel. Like I wasn't trying to go commercial. I'm not trying to like, this shit is what I felt inspired to make. You know, Saturday Night Special, the record with Ross and Fat Joe, it sounds like you were addressing people's egos I want I want to know what's the lesson to be learned in those verses and did you have?

Particular people in mind when you were writing those those rap. Well the song well of the verses for me were definitely archetypes and you know, you do have the dude who's uh, who's greedy and um extra sensitive and um pretends not to be offended when he really is and you have to watch out for that when you're growing up or when you're in a boardroom or when you're trying to you know pass the ball when you you know in law school or whatever it is you pledging it don't matter like you're gonna have people like that you're gonna have the daredevil who has to be the center of attention or they're uncomfortable You have that person and they have that that envious spirit animal

Whatever it is that you got to watch out for you're gonna have that you're gonna have different people, but the song is really about Integrity not moral judgment not saying people got to be perfect and shit But just integrity like saying what you mean and meaning what you say and and you know People say standing on business. Well, that's what it's really about, you know saying and being solid And so that's what the song really addresses And then what Joe and Rick do is they give you examples of different types of characters that say different types of things And so so Joe will address it one way Rick is showing you an example of that type of a character. You know, I'm saying I chose to give you the lessons that are to be learned from those characters.

And that's kind of what the song is. I like Black Cold a lot. Thank you. I think that you should put that out on Juneteenth. But, you know, on Black Cold, you said the only crossover you respect is Kyrie. Yeah. What would you say to people who said you crossed over? I would say they're right. And I would say

it happened, but it was never intentional. It was organic. It was organic. You know what I'm saying? And the reason you look at a Kyrie or you look at a Jordan or you look at a LeBron, they did cross over, but they crossed over doing what they love. They crossed over doing what's true to them. They didn't pretend to be somebody else.

You know what I'm saying? They didn't come in, you know, paint, magic't come and paint it like he was Larry Bird and shit The crossover is like he's magic. You know, I mean so That's my thing. Like my thing is you got to be true to who you are man You know I'm saying whatever that is. You got to stand on it be yourself You know like that old Oscar Wilde quote be yourself. Everybody else is already taking take that That's real shit. So, yeah, that's what I meant. You know what I'm saying? So, yeah, I did crossover.

Absolutely. A thousand percent. Way over. Like, Silverhead, Ladies of Montana, I love that show. But I was doing what I love. You know what I'm saying? For sure. And I also like the song Black Hole just because it's so black.

But I remember I saw you on the shop and you were saying, you were saying one of the reasons you reached out to Q-Tip, because you were working on the album with Dre, you reached out to Q-Tip because you said you really wanted like a black, black, blackity, black, black album. So it made me wonder, like, what wasn't Dre giving you in terms of blackness? Oh, no, no, no. Dre gave me everything. What it was was my songwriting wasn't up to par when I was working with Dre. Dre gave me some tracks and some stuff.

We got like 40 joints. It's just my writing, I didn't feel like my writing was meeting Dre where it needed to be. And so before, even though I did call Tip and got with him, in between that time, I was back in the gym working on my jump shot. I was working on my pen game. I was analyzing my writing. I had to learn how to rap again. i had to learn how to rap again i had to learn how to rap again wow you know i'm saying i had to because remember the game changes it shifts it evolves so the dribble that was fancy

the tim hardaway dribble that was fancy at one time and he's amazing is different from the kairi dribble that's fancy today. Things evolve. So the same with writing. And when you're doing hip-hop, you have to respect the evolution of the game. So I had to go back and relearn, making sure them couplets were right, making sure that wordplay was right, making sure those narratives were correct, making sure that I was expressing myself right. And once I worked on that in a real serious way,

then I got with Tip, and the rest is history and we made this Amazing body of work that I feel really good about but so would you revisit the dr. Dre hundred percent project raise my man That's yo he FaceTime me the other day man. Absolutely 100% I just I just wasn't ready. You know I'm saying he he always that's my man. You know I'm saying like he always delivers It's just I'm not gonna put him in a position You know I'm saying where I'm not all the way there and I'm not giving him the best. I'm not taking full advantage of our Creative relationship, you know, I mean I value our creative relationship too much for me to be writing some some some lame shit

Some shit that I think is lame and it's not meeting you know me How do you get to that level of self-awareness the way you can look at your wraps and be like your issue is wax? Man, I can't see too many people doing that Yeah, you got a lot of people walking out the house and outfits when they need to be doing this You know I'm saying like you got it like honey You see that shit. You know what I'm saying? Like, yo, you got to, like, honey. You see that shit, right? Like, you know what I'm saying? Like, people like, you know, dude walking out,

he got the camel toe and shit. Like, you know, the fucking moose knuckle. It's like, homie, loosen them jeans up, bro. You saw yourself when you left the house. Yeah, yeah. Before I left the house, I was like, yo, man, this is some moose knuckle shit. Let me, you know, this is looking crazy.

I'm bending over like, my pants are ripped. Is there anybody that tells you, or you just can hear it yourself? You got to listen to it. You got to be honest. See, I make two types of projects. You know what I'm saying? Like I said before, I make shit in a vacuum where I'm just kind of experimenting for me and I make cultural albums.

I was looking to make a cultural album. I didn't want to get with Dre and do my experimental thing. Because my experimental thing is never the records that are appreciated by the culture. They're never the ones that are as... But as an artist, they make me feel good. So it's really a little weird thing I do. And most of the time, that's why after I do a really, really great album, I go do some weird shit. That's how I work.

That being said, I wanted to make a cultural album this time. So I had to be right. You got a song called 30 Decembers. You know, most people talk about how many summers they got. You said you had 30 Decembers. Yeah, because I was away a long time. I was away from New York a long time. And I went back during the pandemic. Right. I put the black mask on. I got the hoodie on. I got the shades on. I got Tim's all black. I'm running around like probably look like a stick up kid or something. Right.

Like they don't know what's going on. But I got to go everywhere. I was all in the projects. I was up in the pink houses. I was places they didn't even know it was me. I'm running around in Coney Island. I'm, you know, and I filmed it. I documented it on the ground and I got inspired.

So I wrote 30 Decembers,, you know being on the subway and everything I said in the song like, you know, I'm saying No, the lady sitting next to me don't want to move her stuff She don't want to let me sit down afraid of how I get down ain't dealing with that shit now You know me like all that stuff. I said, it's really what I went through, you know And it was deep because the one thing you forget about in life You know I'm saying when you like even if you got a good job, you forget about danger. You know what I'm saying? You forget that danger exists.

You forget that there's pissy elevators. You forget that there's people sleeping on the floor, dodging bullets. You forget that there's people swallowing Vicks because they can't go to a hospital or go into the emergency room because they don't feel good. You forget about all that shit. And that disconnection is part of the reason why artists aren't able to really give the people what they want. They start rapping about fucking Grey Poupon. So 30 December symbolizes the streets in New York City.

How long it had been since I really was home for real. Not visiting the city, not visiting the city in an SUV. Not visiting the city and saying, yo, I'm from here. No, that ain't what I'm talking about. I'm talking about really, when's the last time you really sat on the fucking couch and was like, this shit smell funny. You know what I mean?

This smell funny in this motherfucker. Or when you walk in the hallway and there's so many people cooking in the projects, the fucking hallway smells like goddamn tired, tired Irish soul fucking. Your nose is exploding with the fucking, all these smells because all this food and that type of shit. You know what I mean? Yeah, I don't think people are aware, especially, I know this generation, and probably just

a lot of people in the industry aren't. You came up in a time in NYC Where rappers was running with real people? Let's just leave it at that real real Yeah, yeah the killers every yeah. Yeah What did you take from your time spent on blocks and eat flash flatbush with hustlers like George Chang? Oh, man, you know about George Wow stretch my man stretch from Brooklyn. May he rest in peace. Um It's so funny, man. My man Stretch from Brooklyn. May he rest in peace. It's so funny, man. I used to go out to Brooklyn with Stretch all the time.

He had his gold 190 E-Bends. Like, even when I had Rock the Bells, I remember I was playing Rock the Bells for him in the car. He was like, we pulled up on one of his crews. He's like, yo, it's my man L. He want to know if you think he should make this a record. He played it for him. They was like, yo, that shit is hot um so me and Stress were real cool I I really hung a lot with

um with AZ and Rich and Alpo and those guys um because of my man Chuck you know I used to go uptown so I used to be on 132 all the time um so those are the guys like the paid in full movie like like like the paid in full movie guys were my real friends and I was with them every day. So when I did like walking with a Panther and you know, with the jewelry, with the diamonds and all that shit, like that's why I was with every day. So it was like, that definitely rubbed off on me in terms of wardrobe, my mindset. I mean, even songs like Saturday night special, it still influences that mindset because you learn how to move. You know what I'm saying?

Like, you learn that if you really, really, really want to survive in the world, don't try to be a tough guy. Right, right, right. Like, that tough guy shit don't really fly because somebody's going to test that shit all day long. You're much better off just having manners. I didn't say be soft. I didn't say don't defend yourself. I didn't say don't do what you got to do if there's a problem I said don't try to be a tough guy that's right you know I'm saying so that was the

thing like just understanding that and you know those guys being you know maybe two three years older than me four years older were just old enough to kind of mentor me so it's like you know coming out of Queens like from age You know late like 16 17 like 17 early maybe late 16 early 17 all the way to like early, you know 20s or whatever I was hanging around for as long as they were around I was hanging with these guys and learning The ins and outs of life and it's not just all like crime and criminal shit and all that negative shit that people always think about. It also life lessons in it about manhood, you know what I'm saying?

And about how to be honorable when you're moving around and how to treat people, how to respect people so that if you see them again, it's not a problem. You know what I'm saying? Because you've got to see people again.

Absolutely. Man or woman, you're going to see them again. You know what I mean? Absolutely. You know, the girl will be walking past you while you get your ass whipped or get some pistol whips. I'm like, mm-hmm.

That's right. You know, you catch one of them. You know what I mean? So you, you know what I mean? So you learn. You know what I mean? You're answering a lot of questions before I even ask them. Because I was going to ask you, like, you know, you see a lot of people in hip-hop get

caught up being too close to individuals in the street. And I was watching the Supreme Team, Doc, and you were in the crowd at Fat Cat's birthday party. Supreme and them is my men. Listen, listen, Black Justice is my men. You know what I'm saying? Bimmy's my men. I was running with them because they were closer in age. And then Preem, I knew, you know, that

crew, like a lot of them I knew. They were a little older, but I knew them. So how'd you end up not getting caught up in that? Like say Irv did. You know, not throwing him under the bus. Nah, nah, I get it. Because, you know why? Because I was around enough hustlers my whole life

to know that this shit ain't cute. You know what I mean? See, let me tell you, like, dudes that are insecure, that becomes like a like a like a like a like a security blanket for, you know, I mean, if you really understand life and you around enough people, you understand that you need to just that's not you don't need was around it like so i don't have to inject i don't have to make that part of the ll cool j narrative because i really did i was really there like for real you know i mean the shower pot for real yeah very for real so it's like you know like dudes playing with guns and dropping them on the floor on purpose just to see how you react. You know, you know, that kind of shit. Yeah.

Hey, what's up? This is Ramses Ja. And I go by the name Q Ward. And we'd like you to join us each week for our show Civic Cipher. That's right. We're going to discuss social issues, especially those that affect black and brown people, but in a way that informs and empowers all people to hopefully create better allies. Think of it as a black show for non-black people.

We discuss everything from prejudice to politics to police violence. And we try to give you the tools to create positive change in your home, workplace and social circle. Exactly. Whether you're black, Asian, white, Latinx, indigenous, LGBTQIA+, you name it. If you stand with us, then we stand with you. Let's discuss the stories and conduct the interviews that will help us create a more empathetic, accountable, and equitable America. You are all our brothers and sisters,

and we're inviting you to join us for Civic Cipher each and every Saturday with myself, Ramses Jha, Q Ward, and some of the greatest minds in America. Listen to Civic Cipher every Saturday on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. You ever thought about telling those stories, like in a movie? I mean, I would do a movie.

I thought about it. People ask me that kind of stuff. I would. You know what I'm saying? Because when I hear those stories, they sound unbelievable. You hear stories about the Shah Al-Qaida Supreme Oh, it's about the Charlotte Posse Supreme Team. It's like, what? Yeah, yeah.

No, I, you know, you know, I'm listening, man. You know, you know, I really live two schools of thought. There's the guys who really I want to be cut from that cloth. You see me as that. And there's the guys like, I'm gonna leave that over there. Because, you know, I really, I really smelt cut from that cloth. You see me as that. And there's the guys like, I'm going to lay that over there. Absolutely. Because, you know, I really smelt them candles. You know what I mean?

Like, them candles was really, I smelled them for real. So I don't need to be, you know what I mean? Absolutely. I'm good. I'm good. Nothing to prove. Another record off the album, Huey in the Chair. Yeah.

Again, you're taking a revolutionary tone. Yeah. So it made me think, would you have rapped like that throughout your career if it was more, I guess, profitable? I didn't even take profits into consideration. See, there's a time to create art and there's a time for commercial consideration. If you paint the Mona Lisa, you don't paint it, you know, thinking that, you know, I don't know, something's going to be trendy one day. You just paint it. I just I didn't I don't take that into consideration with this album. I wrote a record from the heart that I think people of all. Colors, ethnicities, cultures will be able to respect because it's really coming from my experience of what

I've seen or what I've witnessed or what I've envisioned. However it came to me, whatever I was inspired to write, it's real. So it's not trying, I'm not trying to be commercial. I wanted to make something that could touch the world in a way that is real from a hip-hop standpoint so you know i respected his stance i respected you know my my aunt and this is an interesting thing and i didn't know this when i did my dna and at harvard and they did all this stuff and she's still alive when we talk my aunt joan you know who i got reconnected with late in life she was the first female black panther really yeah i didn't know my aunt joan yeah my aunt joan she's from oakland okay she's from oakland joan lewis my uncle was john henry

lewis he's a light heavyweight champion he's in the boxing hall of fame he's first african-american light heavyweight champ but that whole side of my family has some very interesting people in. She plays the violin. She, you know, she's dope. And that, that was, you know, something I learned and discovered. I thought that was quite fascinating. The Huey thing, I thought a lot of the things he was trying to do were worthy of respect. Absolutely. So I wrote a song about it. thought it was it was worth listening to I think that you know as an artist I would be cheating the world if I didn't write stuff that was came from my heart and soul it's never to exclude anybody I don't I'm not even that I'm not even built like that I like everybody like I like people I'm weird like I don't have like all of them you know I don't

judge people I'm not judgmental I don't but like all of them, you know, I don't judge people. I'm not judgmental. I don't. But I like. So I just wrote something that I thought people would find fascinating. Clearly, as a black man, that's always been in you. You talk about your aunt, who was the first Black Panther. So it's in your DNA. So when you used to hear Chuck D rap back in the day, did you have any of those that you did but maybe never put out? I did. I did. I did. I did. I, um, you know, I think, I think, um, creative courage, it takes time to get to that place. You know, when you have choices and, um, you know, quite frankly, you know, you know, when you raise to be polite and when you raised with a certain type of manners, there's certain things you just don't say because you don't want to ruffle feathers.

And I think that's a natural thing, though. That's not always about, that's about how you're brought up. That's about upbringing. That's not really about, like, even commercial stuff. That's about upbringing. Like, you look at Pac, it's his upbringing that fueled that creative music. It's your upbringing. So I wasn't really brought up in that kind of household. You know what I'm saying? I was brought up in a household, Caribbean and Southern. You know what I'm saying? Grandfather from Barbados. So it was

a Caribbean influence in the house, working a thousand jobs, washing your arms up to your elbows when you come in, all that, you know, fixing your own car and shit. And then my grandmother from down south. So I was raised with that southern Caribbean vibe in my house. So that just wasn't what we talked about. So I didn't, I wasn't, as a kid coming up, that's not what I wrote about. But as you evolve and as you grow as a human

being, and as you discover new things and new shit, talk about it. Do you have a lot of unreleased music that you recorded in like, you recorded in your early years? If so, why not put it up? I don't think there's anything wrong with that, but they'll have plenty of time to do all that. It's not...

You mean you won't wait until you leave? Yeah, fuck yeah. Hell yeah. I hear that old shit, man. Put out all that old shit. Yeah, I got the new old shit coming up Right here that old shit man. Try to make some new shit. Oh, let's get it poppin baby. What's happening, man? I hear that old shit man. I don't even care about that shit. Yeah. Yeah, whatever these dudes, you know, like run around and you know There's dudes right now think they gonna get away with the pro tools and all that. No, you're not.

The state going to wear your ass out, man. Right. Yeah, we coming to get all that, man. I know you think you got it. You think you slick. You know, a couple of dudes put some shit up on our tools. I'm going to tighten you up, too.

I got something for your ass, too, man. You know, I know you think I forgot. You know, I think about, I was talking about you in regards to Drake, right? Because the way Drake doesn't back down from a rap challenge reminds me of LL Cool J. Because Drake makes the records for the ladies, but he's also not afraid to mix it up as an MC.

And you had a lot of those back in your day. You had Ice-T, you had Hammer, Cool Mo D. You. You know, you got all of them on to the break of dawn. But what happened when you and Ice-T finally bumped into each other at the Def Jam party on Bleak Ambrose? Man, me and Ice, man, me and Ice are cool, man. You know what I'm saying? We bumped into each other, you know, talked a little talk and went back and forth with a little of this and that. But we cool.

Like, I respect Ice. Like, I really do. Ice is uh, you know, I'm saying he's a smart dude He's very clever very smart Like you know I'm saying like listen man. I had All kind of runnings with all kinds of dudes over the years. You know I'm saying the bottom line is that It's always better to err on the side of civility, man, instead of putting yourself into some bullshit you don't want to get into. So me and Ice, we ironed that out, man. It wasn't old.

You know what I'm saying? Yeah. Yeah. That's funny, though. You brought that shit up. No, because I just always wonder how cooler heads prevail. Because as you said, you are a real figure who ran with real figures. Ice-T is a real figure who ran with real figures.

But it never got to that level of... Yeah, yeah. Well, I'll tell you why, because... I've always been a guy that looked to avoid problems, because I know problems become real problems. And I know how I am. You know what I mean? Like, I don't look for problems, bro.

I don't... You know what I'm saying? Like, I'm just really not built like that I I don't look for problems bro I don't You know what I'm saying like I'm just really not built Like that I don't want the problems Because I'm not fucking playing with you You know I mean like I don't so I don't Want no problems you understand I'm saying I'd rather us be friends You know I mean because you have to

Look at you got to look at my career bro If I put all my energy into a problem Do you know how crazy it would be this world Would be different if I was Fucking on the other side of the fence the whole world so it's like i don't even want to go there you know what i'm saying i want to keep things positive energy no problem no tough fake tough guy bullshit respect dudes give them love give them honor see them give them a dab respect them behind their backs respect them too not just in their face you know i'm saying and just keep it there you know i'm

saying and and it works for me that's why i have a lot of friends and a lot of respect in the game and there's very few people there's only a few people that you know aren't in love with me and i understand why and you know these things happen you know I'm saying but I got good relationships because of that so I'd rather keep it there with it you know I'm saying what would you say to rappers today you know about the pitfalls of just beef and hip-hop now now that times have changed well I would say that you know I would say that when it's really when it's really just about the music and the bars like don, don't take it so personal, B. Like, why the fuck are you so butthurt, like, that you want to, like, you know,

kill everything moving because somebody insulted you on the way? I do get it, but you got to control that. You know what I'm saying? It's not like you can't really judge them because I've been there. I know it can be upsetting, you know. You see a girl, you want to, you know, the record plays, you want to call your girl, go, he got you. Now you want to fight her. You know, he got you. Or she might go, you got you now you want to fight, you know

Or she might go you'd be like, you know, she kind of gives you to you know, you see that that little Now you got no like, you know, you may drink that not like us shit. That shit's torture for a motherfucker. Yeah, absolutely. That shit little kid singing that shit. You know, that shit is bananas. Absolutely. You'll be fine, bro. You know what I mean? Don't even trip. So my thing is, like, that's what I'm saying.

So, like, you just don't take it personal. You know what I mean? You can't be overly sensitive. You know what I'm saying? Is it true that you and Jay-Z once battled in a parking lot in Manhattan, you rapped a verse from Funkadelic Relic and him and his team laughed at you? OK, let's let's let's talk about what it really is. First of all, I wasn't I didn't rap a verse from Funkadelic Relic. OK, that's the first fucking thing.

That's the story. It's bullshit. OK, it's the story. It's bullshit. Okay. It's not true. What did happen, though, is, you know, I see, you know, see a guy, you know, in the club and they're trying to, you know, flash money to get my attention. I'm looking, okay. And then this man, Sauce, came up to me and was rapping. So I had a couple of rhymes.

Remember, I'm albums in now. You know, these are guys that ain't had a deal. So when I didn't have a deal, I had a suitcase of rhymes. Now I'm albums in. Sauce said some rhymes. I said a couple of rhymes Then I said a little bit of a song ain't no stopping this a little bit then Jay came up right? I was out of rhymes me. Mm-hmm And no in no scenario that was I like fully loaded and ready to run. You know I'm saying If I was you know, I'm not exactly like was you know I'm not exactly like you know the first

rapper that you really want to get into that shit you know I'm saying like I wasn't I wasn't like so yes did I run out of rhymes was I finished rapping abso-fucking-lutely was it was I was it his was it their peanut gallery absolutely but do you really want to get into some of that kind of shit with LL? Like, you really want that? No, but I'm saying, like, do dudes really want the problems, or is it just a nice story to have? It's like, you know, it's like, like, like, like, Floyd

taking off the gloves, stepping out the ring, and you shadowboxing in front of him. I caught you. It's like, okay. Okay. Yeah, you caught me. Y'all caught me. So, there was just, okay. Yeah, you caught me. Y'all caught me. Yeah. So it was just one of those things.

You just weren't as prepared as you probably should have been. I wasn't prepared. I ran out of rhymes. They run up. This motherfucker, you know, he been rapping on the corner for 10 years. He got fucking a thousand rhymes. I ain't got none. I'm out of rhymes.

He raps. Okay, congrats. You got that one. Yeah. You got that one. But, you know, if I was you, I I just baked that one and just leave it at that You know me don't like drop nothing. Is that way the whole Jay-z and LL Cool J got problems came from? I don't know. I couldn't even tell you bro. There was another rumor that other song lounging your song lounging was about

I mean Because at the time he was known for the Lexus and you was. Why are you looking at me like that? He was known for the Lexus. Fucking what? You got stock in fucking Lexus? I can't rap about a Lexus? You nigga got stock in Lexus?

I can't mention Lexus? The fuck? What's going on? What are we doing here? Like, how personal are we going to take this shit, bro? But was any of those bars about Jay? No. Okay.

Look, okay, so I'll tell you two like this. If a dude makes a song, right, and I make a contrary, a contrasting idea about a similar, like, in other words, if you say, yo, yo um yo baby i'm coming upstairs to see you right and then i'm like yo if i said if i said something like if that inspired me right and i'm like you know what um let them come upstairs i'm gonna go around the side or some shit like that that's not a disrespect bro you had a you had a song. It had some cool ideas in it. I just, as an artist, was inspired and made some contrasting, you know, a contrasting statement about what you were kind of saying in a contrast, like the contrast of it. It wasn't like, I don't even know you, dog.

I don't know you from a hole in the wall, like at all. I have no, like what what could i possibly want from him in 90s like let's think about 1996 what do i want with him yeah he's brand new what what could i possibly want and so all i did was there were songs out i made some contrasting statements based on um his song and my song like that It was no disrespect but again that goes back to that sensitivity be dudes be sensitive man It's like dude like don't assume the worst Why are you assuming the worst? Why not assume the best why not say yo, yo, let's fuck with something

Like why does it have to be I'm dissing you? Like, I wasn't dissing that man. I had no reason to diss him. Like, for what? Even to today, I don't want to diss homie. For what? I don't want nothing from him. I don't need nothing from him.

I'm not looking for nothing, but I don't have any problems. You know, there's that infamous pic of you at the awards show looking at him. Were you sizing him up like, like yo i got the rhymes right now nah nah what it would have now what it probably is is he was looking at that like at me like that before they caught the shot you know that's like that's like the teacher i got you last it's like a motherfucker look at you and then you look at him and then the teacher get out of my classroom you know it's like i just got the one i got caught you know you know the pick i'm talking i know exactly what you're talking about do you remember what you were thinking about in that moment exactly? Yeah, I was probably thinking, this motherfucker get on my nerves.

He's looking at me all crazy. Or some shit like that. This motherfucker get on my nerves, man. Look at this motherfucker. Is it like a friendly competition? Because, you know, I even think about it had to be kind of difficult when he became president of Def Jam. Because now he's over the budget. It wasn't difficult at all.

We had a meeting. It wasn't difficult. Only thing difficult is, yo, promote my shit. I don't care. Like, you know, people funny with that because, like, you have people that'll say, like, yo, L, that's crazy when they gave this guy a job. But first of all, I don't like talking about people like this. This is ridiculous. But I'll just do it because everybody's going to be, you know, they're already around. We're already viral, ain't he fucking with me? So I might as well finish. So, listen, I'm going gonna use some some people who are familiar with this will understand it well Michael Jackson was on Motown

He never wanted to be the president, bro. I Didn't never want to be no president of Def Jam or do no I don't want a job Fucking MC fuck I ain't come up. He's like, yo Russell. Give me a job. That's not what I was in it for So no, I didn't and I didn't have begrudge him he had people have different things that they want to accomplish I celebrate that I'm happy for him like seriously sincerely like I'm happy for homie like I'm happy that he's doing what he's doing I'm happy that like he even when that happened I didn't have any issue because I had no reason to think that it would be anything negative and if anything you have somebody that understands what you do and what you go through

as an artist who's been through some things so nah I didn't feel no kind of way you know we met and stuff I don't really know what that dynamic is about I really don't like I really don't know what it's about we all met to talk about you know the album or whatever did y'all have good conversations y'all bring all of this to the forefront? No, we didn't. We never, you know, sometimes you're right. Sometimes you gotta give the elephant in the room some peanuts. You know what I'm saying? We didn't really address it. No, we didn't.

We didn't really address it. But I can tell you this. I sincerely I like his music. I don't have no issues with him. You know what I'm saying? Like, it is what it is. You know what I'm saying? Like, it is what it is. You know what I'm saying? Like, I'm not... I'm not... You know?

You know? I'm in LL mode, man. Think about LL Cool J. When I look at y'all in hip-hop, I look at you as Magic Johnson. I look at him as Michael Jordan. But you don't get no Jordan without Magic. I mean, that's one way of looking at it. You know? Like, Magic is literally the top five of all time. Easily. You know, maybe. You know, that's one way of looking at it. Like magic is literally the top five of all time, easily.

You know, maybe, you know, maybe. But you know, I guess the movie credits ain't rolled yet. So we gotta see how that works out. Yeah, yeah, yeah. You know what I mean? Yeah, would you be open to a friendly, a friendly spar? What kind of spar? Lyrical. Lyrical, damn, Al, relax.

Lyrical. Did I get excited? Yes. I was like, what kind of sport? I was just like, what kind of sport are you talking about? Lyrically. Nah. You know, you see, remember at the Hall of Fame?

I don't know what it was. I don't know if it was the Hall of Fame or the 70. Maybe it was when they did the 75 NBA inductions and Jordan saw Magic. He was like, I crossed you up. We can get at it right now. Yo, listen, man. Yo, I mean, you know. Hey, how bad you want to know, bro?

You know what I mean? Like, OK, OK. You know, I wouldn't, you know, I would say let's just all stay focused. Let's just stay focused, baby. Don't get distracted. You're getting it now. Just leave it alone. Just win.

Just do your thing. You know what I'm saying? Whatever happened to E-Love, the brother that carried your radio? Nah, Earl, I think he's in Cali. You know what I'm saying? I'm not sure what he's doing. We talk occasionally. I had him at the Rock and Roll Hall of Fame.

That was a good vibe. You know what I'm saying? So, you know, it was good shit. He was the Public Enemy logo, right? Absolutely. That's crazy. Yeah, he loved my hype, man. That's the Public Enemy logo. He had the bullseye on him and all that. The skull.

Yeah. That's funny, right? Yeah. A lot of history, bro. Correct me if I'm wrong on this, too, because you and DJ Scratch, y'all made a classic record Yeah, it will bomb and go and the goat album. We did more. He did most of the goat I did most of a lot of it. Yeah a lot not all of it a lot of it Yeah, why haven't y'all connected more on production? just just time and going through things like that whole acronym like

First of all, like I didn't even know When I you know when we came when I came with that with that album that it was going to turn the goat into everything it became them like most people don't even know I came up with that shit that's crazy like most people do not even know yo this guy really came up with the goat that whole

concept of being the goat and it's it's every area of culture yeah yeah so like that's just you know you're welcome again fuck you know me y'all welcome you know but it was um and i got it from muhammad ali saying he was the greatest of all times and earl of manigault you know saying because me and bimmy used to talk about earl of manigault being a goat and all that but goat right and then i made goat g-o-a-t greatest of all times the acronym and it just kind of bled into society became this global thing

and you often get left out of conversations for an acronym that you created yeah so right but I'm in it if they use the acronym yeah yeah right like like so every time you see somebody use that goat the emoji or they call Tom Brady the goat or they call Jordan the goat or they call Floyd or Ali or whoever the goat, I'm right there, which is crazy for me because I know I created it. So it's like I'm looking at it like, oh, shit, man, there's another one. Oh, Michael Phelps is a goat. Oh, okay.

Well done, young man. I've got a few more questions. I was reading Will Smith's book. He talks about going broke after having success in music early on. Did you ever have any of those issues? I've had moments in my life where, you know, I owe taxes or had to do things. But no, I've never been in that position. I also, you know, I'm a big believer. I pay my tithes.

You know what I'm saying? So, you know, whatever I get, I get 10 percent of God. You know what I'm saying? You saying I you know I you know I live my life kind of based on certain codes I'm not you know I've never been big on either overspending or over saving I just kind of let my life flow that's why you know I can get whatever whatever I want whenever I want it and I'm pretty good I'm good with that actually very good with that yeah I'm you know something I'm good with that, actually. Very good with that. Yeah, so I'm cool. Who taught you the business, if anybody? Trial and error.

Right. Trial and error. You know, man, like, you learn. Like, you just learn to, like, I remember one time I gave my mother $8,000 to hold for me. And then I got a check for 50 grand or something like that. I was a little kid. I was maybe 16, 17. 16, something like that.

And I remember... Man, you've been rapping that long. Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah. You've been rapping money for that long. Yeah, yeah, yeah. That's crazy. No, no, it's crazy. Because I've been a fan since 8, 9.

I started writing at 11 or 12. I've been doing this my whole life, right? For real. So, and I watched that 50 grand go, going, and that eight just stayed there. I was like, oh, okay, let's see how this shit goes. Like, I learned that right there. So you just learned how to save money. Save enough.

Always, you know, make sure you can, know you know you got you know what i mean just tuck it who were the people in your life that just kept you stable as a as a human because like you said you started when you were 16 years old so you had the industry you had the streets like you had every single pitfall that could have happened in front of you but you you grew to still be the man that we see in the day. Man, you know, my mother, you know, like my mother would give me like, she'd give me a book with a whole bunch of drug addicts in it with heroin addicts, fingers all, hands all blown up, sores. She'd be like, Todd, look at this. And I'll be looking at it. She'd be like, you know, people that do that, they don't have long careers. I'm like, oh, I missed my career. Interesting. You

know what I mean? And then my grandmother, you know what I'm saying? Because that was like, oh, I missed my career. Interesting. You know what I mean? And then my grandmother, you know, because I was like initially, you know, coming up, I was raised Catholic. I wasn't even raised in like the traditional black church as we know it. I was raised Catholic and then ended up getting into the more Bible based church, faith based churches later. But so so it was, you know, all that Catholicism, man, that'll get you like that'll have you like being real cautious, man, like everything is naughty and all that. So it was like you just learn to like watch your step. You know what I'm saying? And, you know, like I always like I tell you, man, like like I remember one time I was talking to my man. Right. And we were talking about hustling. He was like, well, why I remember one time I was talking to my man, right? And we was talking about hustling. He was like, well, why don't you come hustle with me? You know what I'm saying?

And this is before I went uptown and everything. And I was like, nah, I don't want to do it. He's like, why? I said, because I want to be the best. So he said, so what's the problem? I said, well, I'm going to have to kill people So That's the Like so in other words What I'm saying is

When you think about things When you do things You have to think about things You know what I'm saying Like you have to really Do the knowledge On what it is you analyze And what you consider

And whether or not you will And I didn't say be perfect I didn't say none of that I just said you have to consider what you're doing and if it's worth it to you based on what it is. So that's how.

So I had a little fun, but to be honest with you, with the drugs and all that, I don't like my brain feeling like it ain't got no brakes on it and shit. I don't like that feeling. I don't like walking in the room. I don't know what the fuck's going on. I'm all like, you know, I don't like that feeling. I don't like walking in the room. I don't know what the fuck's going on. I'm all like, you know, I don't like that feeling. That's

why I don't be drinking and smoking and getting high and all that. I never did because of that. I've tried everything. I've tried shit, but I've never, that's why I don't like that feeling. You know what I'm saying? I like to have my wits about me. So that's been your key to aging gracefully in the industry because you know, a lot of the icons we, we grew to know and love, they not landing with their planes, with the wheels out. You know what I mean? A lot of them planes landing, the wheels

not coming out. Yeah, them motherfuckers landing on flat tires, all type of shit. Roller skate, one roller skate on a 747. Yo, yeah. Just not getting high and all that, man. Like, take care of yourself beat I like to get in the gym workout train. No sin. I like to read this shit

You know man, like I don't be sitting around high on motherfucking day man. Like what are we doing man? What's that about? For me, I'm not look people could do what they want and I got homies that do that and it's all good I ain't got no problem with it. You know, that's you, you know, but no, you know, like I said, you know, we see in a lot of people fall from grace, you know, for things that they did decades ago. Do you think that, you know, landing with your wheels out has to be a decision and a mindset that you got to be committed to from day one? Well, you got to put yourself in the best position to do that, right? Sometimes you can get lucky. Sometimes things just work out, but you know, it's better to be, you got to put yourself in the best position to do that, right? Sometimes you can get lucky. Sometimes things just work out. But, you know, it's better to be, you know, prepared to land is plan your landing.

And then if you got to switch it up, you switch it up. You know, it's like it's the same, right? All plans are useless, but planning is essential. You know what I'm saying? So it's like if you got a plan, it ain't going to go as planned. But if you got a plan, then you got a place to pivot from. You know what I mean?? So it's like, if you got a plan, it ain't going to go as planned, but if you got a plan, then you got a place to pivot from. You know what I mean? It's like having a map.

If you got a map, you know, and your plan is to go that way, even if you got a switch, you got a map. So you can go that way. That makes sense. You dig? That makes sense. You know, last year was the 50th anniversary of hip-hop. This year is the 40th anniversary of Def Jam. And me and you. Right.

First. So, you know, with all the controversy surrounding Russell Simmons, does that impact how these things can be properly celebrated, how these stories can be properly told? I don't think so, because I don't think one thing has nothing to do with the other. You know, if we found out that Galileo was doing some crazy shit, should we do away with astronomy and telescopes and shit? Like if we found out that, I don't know, you name it. You still got to tell the story. I mean, like, it's just like, like, like, like, it's really kind of like people, like, look, first of all, I don't like to judge people because I wasn't there. That's the first thing. I also don't belittle.

I don't try to never make light of anything that anybody's been through in terms of victimization. I'm not with that either. I don't play them games. What I will say is, you're living in, let's say whoever, you're living in an apartment building and you found out that the builder of that apartment building had did some really, really bad things. Should you break your lease and move out? Should we demolish that building and redo it? Have somebody somebody a perfect hand build it? I don't know.

I don't even know the answer. But what I say to people is you got to look at these things when you think about stuff. One thing is one thing. This is another. You know what I mean? And even if you remove the person out of the building, you still have to tell the story of the person building that building. But you still tell the story of the person building that building and you but you still tell the story of the building so it's like like

Yeah, let's take history world history for example It's probably been a couple of people that have done some good things and bad things So do we eliminate all of the good because of the bad? Do we throw away the good because of the bad deed? That's the question. We live in a country that was built on bad deeds. I'm saying, so do we, like, are you prepared

to give up your passport because of what was done to the indigenous people in this country? Right? Like, you got to be real'm not it ain't none of it good like i'm not saying don't make light of it by no means i'm not on that bullshit but i'm just saying like we gotta be realistic man the dude built you know he put together this company

he did so even if he's not celebrated you still got to tell yeah you may not celebrate his actions in that particular area but you can't say that he didn't do something right all right i'm just saying like there's no way around that because if not we have to erase all of world history because to find a perfect person that did good things and nothing bad does that even exist does it exist in your household? What was grandma doing? Was grandma freaking off? Was grandma freaking off, B? Should we never, did grandma illegally take money and do the nasty, nasty and take some money back in the 60s and now she making Thanksgiving? And are we foul for eating this stuffing right now?

Because grandma shot Buck in the ass with a 22 round the corner I don't know I'm sure those conversations have came up for you though right like people have asked like are you gonna have him here you know honestly nobody has really asked and I'm glad you did ask because I just think that none of us are perfect, right? And none of us should make light of any victim and anything they go through ever. We have to look at the world and things on a case-by-case basis. Because if you're not going to look at it on a case-by-case basis, I don't know what we're going to do. Because nobody's going to do shit. Because if everybody had a goddamn, you know, a Wikipedia on a TV screen above their head with all of the foul shit they did, we'd be walking around this motherfucker.

Man, man, man. What? What? I wouldn't hurt a fly. Yeah, I know you wouldn't. But you're out there chopping chickens heads off every five minutes. I wouldn't hurt a fly. Yeah, I know. heads off every five minutes. I wouldn't hurt a fly. Yeah, I know.

You're telling the truth. But I kill a chicken. I kill a chicken. You know what I mean? Like, everybody, like, people, you know, people, nobody's perfect with that stuff, man. So that's the way I look at it, man. You know what I mean? Did you feel the way when President Biden got your name wrong at the CBC conference?

He called you LLJ Cool J. Then he referred to you as a boy before correcting himself and saying man. Did you feel the way about that? Nah. I mean, what am I supposed to do, man? I'm a man. What the fuck do you want me to do, man? God damn it.

You know, what am I supposed to do? This dude 80 years old. Why, boy? Man, listen. Yo, I got shit to do, man. The last thing I supposed to do? This dude 80 years old. He's a bad boy. Man, listen. Yo, I got shit to do, man. The last thing I got to wear. Let me tell you something. When you're at the point where the president messing up your name is a national story,

she was a bad motherfucker. Did I? You a bad motherfucker at that point. Yo, when the president messing up your name is national news He did something right so I'm going I'm going just to be like I'm just going you know wish them all the best bro. I wish them good health and that's it man I can't you ever been approached about doing a chapstick line Well, I met with them a long time ago, but you know You know, I think um, you know a lot of melanin man. I'm not sure I'm not sure that's a lot of melan That's a lot of melanin, man.

A lot of melanin on them lips, man. That shit is like, whew. You know, Lil' Bonnie, man. Get a load of LL and all that shit. Yo, yo. You motherfuckers. Yeah, LL. That's why I want people to listen.

Because I'm saying back then, you know what I mean? Yeah. That's why I want people to listen to the new album because, you know, even with all the success you've had, there's still a lot of doors that have been closed to you because of your blackness. Well, I mean, listen, but there's a lot of doors that open, right? See, life

is, um, we know what we're dealing with in the world, in America, but you can't, I can't allow myself to get kind of caught up in that shit. You know what I'm saying? We know what's true. Sometimes it is.

Sometimes it isn't. But my thing is. When the elevator doors close, take the steps. You know what I'm saying? Like, I'm not tripping off of that. Like, I'm not going to walk around overly sensitive with a chip on my shoulder about what I'm not getting. I'm too busy thinking about what i am getting and so i'm gonna make the most of what i do get so if you you know if you did not let's just say for instance if somebody wanted to deny me an orange because i'm a black man okay but i bet you i'm gonna give me 9 000 peaches

off this motherfucker you know man that's how you do it. You know what I'm saying? You go get it. You can't be caught up in that because that misery and that woe is me mentality, that victim mentality, that's not successful. I'm about being successful. You know what I'm saying?

What does success look like for you in regards to the Force album? Impact in the culture people getting a full load of the force album it really impacted the culture in a major way with sales with airplay with streams people really feeling it and embracing it and loving it and saying wow i didn't know that an artist that came maybe two three four generations before me i didn't even know that an artist that came maybe two three four generations before me I didn't even know that I would even be remotely interested in hearing his music but why does she really move me and then on the flip side of that it's the day

one fan saying damn I really thought that like because you know the guy I went to high school with is a bus driver now and his stomach is to his knees that L wasn't gonna be able to do it now now we can do it You can continue to be great and perform at a high level. Mm-hmm, but you just got to be on it like that You know I'm saying what cloth are you cut from? Are you cut from the surrender cloth or you cut from the conker cloth? You got to make those decisions No, I'm saying so that's what I want. You know, I mean like Touch the world with that shit and let people know, like, yo, this dude is, sky's real.

This shit is real. This is a different thing. This dude is different because he really executes the shit he says. Like, you know, this ain't Raisin' in the Sun, B. I'm not just talking about the shit all day and, you know, and then never doing it. Would the music be enough to tell the LL Cool J story? Oh, no. No, I'm way too multifaceted for that.

There's too many dimensions to my character, B. But it definitely will tell the artistic stories that I've been looking to put forth. You know what I'm saying? And it'll tell people where I was at

when I created that music and what I felt was important, what I was inspired by. And hopefully, you can find inspiration in my inspiration you know I'm saying it's like um you know you know it's like having sex man you know I'm saying you got to be in the moment you got to be self-aware you got to know when to be aggressive you got to know when to be calm you know I'm saying you got to know when to turn it up you got to know when to be calm. You know what I'm saying? You got to know when to turn it up.

You got to know when to turn it down. You got to know when to be nice. You got to know when to be not so nice. That's life. You know what I'm saying? So that's what it is. You know what I'm saying? That's how I'm doing it.

You know what I'm saying? Hello, Cool J. My man. Appreciate you, brother. Thank you for the time, man. Yes, sir. Appreciate you. Hey, what's up?

This is Ramses Jha. And I go by the name Q Ward. And we'd like you to join us each week for our show, Civic Cipher. That's right. We discuss social issues, especially those that affect black and brown people, but in a way that informs and empowers all people. We discuss everything from prejudice to politics to police violence, and we try to give you the tools to create positive change in your home, workplace, and social

circle. We're going to learn how to become better allies to each other, so join us each Saturday for Civic Cipher on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.