The Breakfast Club - REPLAY: Checking In w Erica Campbell

Episode Date: May 5, 2026

On this uplifting episode of Checking In with Michelle Williams, Michelle sits down with Grammy-winning gospel powerhouse Erica Campbell for a deeply honest and inspiring conversation about faith, self-love, and growth. Erica opens up about her new album I Love You, the journey to embracing her authentic voice, and the balance between passion and perfection in her music. From navigating pressure in the industry to setting boundaries and protecting her peace, she shares powerful gems on confidence, healing, and staying grounded in purpose. The conversation also dives into friendship, grace, and why showing up for people—especially in their lowest moments—matters. Plus, Erica speaks on freedom, faith, and how love—starting with God and self—can transform your life.YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@BreakfastClubPower1051FMSee omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

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Listen to look back at it on the Iheart radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Welcome to checking in with Michelle Williams, a production of IHeart Radio and the Black Effect. There are some people that I admire from afar, and I'm so glad that, you know, when I get a chance to spend time with them, that they are that same person that I admire from afar. That's who they are up close. This woman has a lot of balance. She does so much, but yet maintains an amazing light about her.

And she does not compromise the light within her at all. She's warm-hearted. She's so positive. And she's going to make you feel all right. I'm so excited for y'all to tap in, lock in, to see who I get to talk to next on this episode of checking. again. Hey everybody, good morning, good afternoon, good evening, wherever you are. I'm so excited about this episode. I say it every episode because every episode that I have a guest, it's always somebody that I look forward to talking to. So I'm always excited about talking to my guest. This next

guest is one of the most respected artist. I feel like in gospel, I feel like in every genre, I feel like people love them some. Erica Campbell, the Grammy Award winning, stellar award winning, dove award winning, artists Erica Campbell, one half of the duo Mary Mary. Listen, y'all, wait a minute. Pastor's wife, are you co-pastor yet?

How'd that go? No, I'm past his wife. Just past his wife. Just past his wife. That's fine, child. Okay, listen, First Lady of California Worship Center. And guess what? Yes, National Syndicated Radio host of Get Up in the morning,

get up mornings with Erica Campbell. And I am excited. I have done, I could go on and on and on about Erica Campbell. But y'all, she is here. She has an amazing new album that is out right now. Give it up everybody. And welcome Erica Campbell to checking in. Thank you.

I'm glad to be here. I was so excited when I saw this on my itinerary. Oh, your it turnerary. Yes. Well, I love your album. It was so soothing. I listened to it on the plane. I think I was traveling back from Dallas to Atlanta.

And I love it. The title of it is I Love You. And I loved the integration of the music that we love, the Hawkins, which I know, if y'all know Erica Campbell, y'all know she loved Hawkins. Okay. She loves the Hawkins. And so for you to integrate that and then you're going to. guest, P.J. Morton, Stevie Wonder, your sister, Tina Campbell, your chairman producing.

Come on. Warren. Like, now, I don't know what y'all thinking, but can't be no Erica Campbell album without Warren. Absolutely not. Absolutely not. So, I just wanted to tell you that, like, I loved how you integrated the old, I wouldn't say, well, the, the, it is old. It is, it is old. The foundation. The foundation. Foundation. I like. That's good. That's good. The foundation. Was that planned?

This record literally kind of evolved. So when we did the I Love You song, I remember singing, Dear Jesus, I love you, in tribute to Walter Hawkins when he passed. And I fell in love with the rendition that we had. And so when we did that song, Warren said, let's put that with that. Because we were going to do it the whole song, but it was a perfect marriage of that song with the I Love You song that I did was so it just is that the one D-Smok is on thank you yes and the D-Jesus I Love You is what Stevie Wonder.

The record is still new. The record is still new. It's still new, yes. But having Stevie Wonder and, you know, on a Hawkins song was I thought really, really cool. I just, I like this record. I do. I know sometimes you do, I have done records and been so critical. I really didn't listen to them very much.

because I wish I would have done something different or wrote a different lyric. But this, I love this record. I am proud of this record. It is my, I love you record because I love me. I love God. I love people and being able to share this with people. Far too many people have put love within the confines of their breakup or family issue or even their lack of self-love. So they don't even believe in it.

And I'm praying that this record gives me the opportunity to articulate God's love and self-love. love with him at the center because our world is very me center. Jesus is my center. I'm all right. Okay. Erica's okay. But put Jesus at the center, then I become something special. So that's the whole purpose of this.

I love you movement, the songs, all of it. Well, I, first of all, I'm so shocked to hear you say that on previous records, when you listen to him, you like, man, I wish I would have done this. I wish I would have been there. I wish I would have won awards because of your writing. like I am shocked that you were like yeah I wish I would have

I don't want to put you on the spot but I'm like is there something that Now it's a part of a verse and can't give up now that I always wanted to sing over Really? And look it up I'm gonna have people looking for stuff

But I gotta be present for the interview but I'm a Google Queen time I'm like wait a minute let me go What? Yeah Okay okay Okay We were recording that song

Me and Tina were both in the booth at the same time. And apparently we weren't giving Warren what he was looking for. And so he's very, he's a lot of things in the studio. But I understand in order to get to a level of things that are special, because I don't want to say perfection. It's not that it's perfect, what it's supposed to be. You can't be obsessed with perfection. You have to allow heart and feeling, which means maybe a note or a run may not be perfectly executed, but it may be passionate. it. You know what I mean? And he would always say, well, sure, if you want to sacrifice passion for perfection, go ahead. People like passion. Perfection doesn't always get attention. And so even some of the best records that we love by some of our greatest artists, maybe the drums weren't what they needed to be or sonically it was different, but there was something that had heart in it. And that's always what I'm after. So it's okay that my obsession with making sure it's all is supposed to be. I can let it ride. Okay, that's passion. Eric, which. just going to call that bad no passion.

Passion. Oh, so I guess when we have to, maybe when we're in the audience and maybe someone is up singing or performing, you could be like, that was passion. That was not perfection. That was crazy. That was passion. That's the new, let the Lord use you, baby. That's all right.

Amen. Take your time. We're going to say that that was passion. Oh, hallelujah. Amen. Amen, amen. I've had those moments. I've had those moments.

If I had 20 fingers, I probably could be like, yeah, yeah, I totally understand. I've had passionate moments. But you know what? Learning to overcome them, learning that they are part of your story, the moments when you weren't 100%, learning to accept that I think has been so liberating for me. I was talking to someone about my mom earlier and saying how she's always said, you can live anything now, live anything down, knowing that I can live. anything down, keeps me from running from what has been. You know what I mean?

Wow. Keeps me from living in shame, knowing that everybody has made a mistake. The scripture says it like this, for all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God. When I allow myself that, then I don't have to make excuses or apologize, overly apologize for something that kind of comes with life. Some people are so held hostage to their mistakes, which I get it. Depending on how you were raised, that could mean. like my success or my failure because I made a mistake. But I think the greatest people in the world have made mistakes and they got up and kept going. And I think like you said, we can't make our identity based on our failures or mistakes.

Absolutely. Because that's when it's like, okay, you are just a walking advertisement of shame or regret or hurt or pain. And so I totally get that. And I will say that there are some artists who openly show compassion and love and grace for some of everybody. You are one of them. Why do you do that? And I don't mean that. Like, why?

I like, there's no shame. If somebody's in the news for something crazy, like you, Tasha Cobbs, there are so many people. Like, no, I'm standing with my brother. I'm standing with my sister. Yeah. Because I'm not a real friend if I'm only a friend when you're doing good. not a real friend. I'm not a real friend or a supporter. I'm not even a, in my opinion, that's not, you're not a good person if you throw people away because they made a mistake.

You know what I'm saying? That's very self-centered. And a lot of people's friendship is I'm friends with you because I look good being friends with you. Let me stand in close proximity to you because you're something and now they're going to think I'm something. Well, if you fail, if you have an issue, let me get away from you because I don't want to look bad. I'm not that kind of friend. You know, for one, I have my sisters, right? And so we're all different, have gone through different things. And I'm always going to rock with my sisters.

But I also have a core group of friends that I call the Gs that I've known since childhood. And we've been through everything together. Divorces, breakups, successes, failures, misunderstandings, and allowing us to grow. So one of my friends, as I was becoming myself, being okay with being myself, I begin to speak up more. Well, they were used to the Erica that didn't speak up very much. They were used to me being the quiet Erica. They were used to me saying, oh, whatever y'all want to do, wherever y'all go. Well, I learned to say, well, now I don't like that. Well, let's go here. And at first they were like, uh-uh, she's changing because she's this. And I said, this don't have nothing to do with lights,

camera action and everything with me owning my voice and liking it and knowing that it's okay and not having this private self-conversation. Oh, what if they don't agree? Well, what if they don't think it's funny? Well, I won't say that and I won't do that. Just tear myself down. Once I got comfortable with me, I love, love, love that my friends allowed me to grow.

I said, y'all, I'm growing up. And I don't want to lose my friends because I'm growing up. Y'all grow with me. Allow me to grow. Allow me to speak my peace. Allow me to throw my opinion and it be okay. Because sometimes you have your opinionated friends, the quiet friends, the this, that.

And then we started, and when I said that, then all of us started speaking up. Don't call me a late, friend. I know I'm late, but I don't want to be. And y'all laugh at it. And it's something that I'm trying to change. You know what I mean? Or don't call me the friend. Don't say I'm dumb all the time because I actually kind of low-key struggle with that.

And so when people are surrounded by people they love, you can be the best, honest version of yourself. I'm so blessed that I have friends where I can go and take the wig off. I can cry. I can talk about the industry and what I don't think. And what's confusing and what's hurt and what's hard. The fact that, I mean, you know, you can get on a red carpet and be having a good moment.

They're going to remind you of the worst moment in your career. Yeah. The worst moment. Over again. Mm-hmm. You know what I mean? If you're not strong enough, if you don't have a good center and good people around you, it could make some people crumble.

Some people who don't like interviews. But because I have people who love me and I know I can live, live. anything down and I know I can still be kind. I don't have to be mean and nasty. It's good. That's so good. Something you said about owning your voice and being okay with instead of being the passive Erica, you are now the bold, confident Erica, who has obviously maybe has set some boundaries and you stand on those boundaries. It made me think of something Dr. Henry Cloud said, when you are quiet about your boundaries in an effort to seem more likable or to avoid conflict, you will become more resentful.

Yes. Yes. So that's what made me think of that. You get angry. You really, really do. And I remember being that. I remember being nice because it's not nice to say, well, I don't really rock with them very well. Oh, that's not nice.

And so then I allow people in my space that don't mean me well, that don't mean my family well because I don't want to be mean. But I know what I felt in my spirit when they walked in the room. You know what I mean? And so I learned that it's okay to say, oh, I'm sorry, would you give us a moment? You know what I mean? I don't have to say your spirit off. I don't like your energy.

I don't have to say that. I just, hey, can you give us a moment? Or if I'm having a certain conversation and you see people, it's just you have to be aware of you and okay with being you. Yes. That's like it's coming from a good place. If it's coming from a good place, I should be able to say it. If I'm speaking it in love, I believe people will receive it.

Sometimes they won't. And I have to be okay with that too. Because I don't believe going, I should have said it. I shouldn't have went along with that. I shouldn't have agreed to it. It's not what I wanted to do. It's not how I felt. And I think that's a key to even reducing the anxiety.

And some of our anxiety is self-induced because we won't say it even afraid. Mm-hmm. You know, so I totally, I totally, totally get that. Thank you for sharing that. I was trying to stay focused on, I love you, your album, but I love all the life moments and the gyms that you give us. Congratulations for your single Positive that was Grammy nominated, and you actually won an NWACP Image Award for that song Positive.

And y'all, the song Positive is the truth. You can see it in Erica's face and her countenance, in her, the fruit of her life actually, speaks to that. So congratulations to that. How do you have fun? You have to. With your choices. I love it.

There, you got some freedom. And I think I'm just, I think I keep, maybe this interview keeps going back to the freedom and being bold and courageous for a reason. Can you share with us on that even, like I said, The big hair, the colorful hair, the makeup. Everybody in the video was having fun. Yes. I think freedom is infectious.

You know what I mean? When I am free, then I give other people license to be free. You know, growing up churchy and growing up church of God and Christ, you can live your life with this tagline of I don't want them to be mad. I don't want them to understand. You know what I mean? Every creative, God-given, beautiful, amazing idea is followed up by. who, but are they going to get mad?

And I just think that you do the creativity, a disservice by putting it in a box of people's misunderstanding. So I choose not to do it. I just choose to be free. And in that song, I say it over and over again. I choose to be. I know who I am. And I know who I'm not.

I know the difference between the two. I know who's on the throne, on the throne of my life. He tells me all the wrong lefts and when to go right. He's the king. He's the God. He's the biggest. He's the truth. He's the life.

He's the realest. When he tells me, he loves me. I feel it. Hey. You know, those lyrics have become true for me. And I lived them before I sang them. So now that I'm singing them, I can share them with such passion. And that's why I knew this record had to be called, I Love You.

And it's not just an album. It is a movement. People are afraid of love. are scared of love. They don't understand it. But I say go back to the source. Go back to the fact that God is love. You know what I mean? Go back to the fact that we say love is patient. Love is kind. For God so love the world that he gives. Yes. You know what I mean? Love takes its time. Love keeps no record of wrong, right? Love doesn't walk around with his fists up. Don't you hurt me. I'm love. You can't hurt me. That's so good. With this album, did you feel pressure? You've been in the game a long

time. Are you still feeling pressure? I, what did I feel? I, I feel like I always have to pay attention to what has been done, but also prepare for what is next. One of my prayers that we pray pretty regularly, especially at my church, is, Lord, prepare me for what you have prepared for. Lord, prepare. Oh, it wasn't that? Oh, no. To be a sanctuary. You're so churchy. I just, you say Lord, prepare. me so I was ready. Who wins?

No, prepare me for what you have prepared for me. Got it. You know what I mean? Yes. I can walk into this next season freely. If I can be honest, I will say I spent a lot of time with my vocal coach and some time in therapy because when I first started doing the solo career, I was still doing Mary Mary.

I was doing the reality show. I had just had a baby. I had just started the church and just started the radio show. So I was overwhelmed and my body was stretched. I was like a rubber band about to pop. And most of the times when I got up to sing, I was just hoping my voice showed up. And a lot of times it did not. Partially because I was way too nervous, partially because I wasn't resting enough.

I knew I was supposed to keep going, but I probably should have taken some time to just rest and settle myself. But you know, when you're doing a reality show, they push you. So that was that, which I'm not mad at because I said yes, so I can't be mad at them if I said yes. But during this process of getting ready for this record and, you know, the pandemic, which gave me time and space. Yes. I was able to really grow. I feel so much more comfortable with my voice. I feel like I've been in the best voice that I've been in my life.

Like I said, this is the first time I've listened and not cringed a little bit or not, you know, like a lot. Wow. Wow. Okay, so I am excited to go back and continue to listen and listen with this information, with this knowledge that you're giving us from the standpoint you feel more confident and, like you said, just assured. And this is my voice and this is what it is. People don't, you were trained in classical music. Did. You trained.

I did. I did. So I went to college for about three, four years before I left to do music. and study classical, but when I first, you know, when you're singing in church, you don't use that part of your voice. When we started to marry, Mary, I didn't use that part of my voice. And so I felt a little intimidated because everybody else was, and I was like, it's not really my strong suit, you know, I do it, but there's another side of me that I would love to share.

But you know, gospel art audiences, if you come out soft and beautiful, they're waiting for to holler. They don't stand up until you holler. They don't stand up until you do 75 million runs. So you feel this bit of, and yes, even at where I am, learning to be comfortable, that's what I was dealing with. That's where my mind was, not where I am now. But I'm aware that the enemy is always trying to tear you down.

He's always trying to get you off course. And part of getting back on course is feeling comfortable in my own skin, embracing who I am. And when I started when I, I didn't start during the pandemic, but I went during the pandemic. I was like, nothing is wrong, but some ain't right. And I believe that God was preparing me to pay attention to me differently so I could get. I love you record. You know? That's so good.

I feel really good about it. We know of Erica Campbell, as I stated, at one half of the duo Mary Mary, and Mary, was able to cross over into what people would call secular. right and then you as a solo artist you have been able to do the same thing to someone out here who feels like by the way y'all they didn't purposely do it i don't think y'all purposely was like okay we're gonna put it make a trap beat so we can make sure we're on r&B the reason why i say that um feel all right you know you spit number one you know on the billboard gospel chart but then there's possibilities with other songs on the record, it can be an R&B.

And let's keep it real. There's been some criticism of folks that live on the R&B charts and the gospel charts. I get to say, I think it's hater talk to me. To me. I just think they don't understand a lot of wrong teaching, a bit of jealousy mixed in there as well, but mostly wrong teaching on where our light belongs. You know what I mean?

If we turn all the lights out in this room, it just takes one light to dispel the darkness. That's it. We belong in those spaces. We are supposed to go there. I wasn't mad when they told me they were blaming on alcohol and then play God in me. That didn't bother me because somebody heard God and me. It didn't minimize the God and me because what does somebody say before or after? And we've got to remember if we're trying to share this light with people that don't know, we've got to go in spaces.

and be aware that there may be somebody that won't understand it. That's okay. That's all right. They didn't all love Jesus. It was the Christians that said crucify him. So it's okay. Listen, what's great too, I can imagine if you're walking in the airport, you know, y'all, we also get the chance to hear Erica every morning on Get Up Erica, a listenership of

seven million viewers. So what I'm getting to is when you're walking in the airport, because of who we know you to be as the artist and now who people will. get to hear you to also be every day, you're going to have people from all walks of life walking up to you, right? And I'm like, hi, oh, my God. And then people are, oh, my gosh, your music touched me in such an amazing way. But you have a way.

I think that's amazing. It speaks to who you are, y'all. Because she got that side. She's from Englewood. So she's got what you might think. But don't stereotype Englewood. It's not all that. It's not all the, it's not, none of that either.

But I just want to speak to because remember I said your music lives on so many genres. You know, how is that when the people walk up to you and you're like, okay, you're definitely on the R&B side. Okay, you're in the gospel side.

You know what? It feels like love to me. You write songs and you create songs and you hope and pray that it touches and reaches people. You know what I mean? I'm talking to them early in the morning, hoping that I'm saying something that they believe. I always ask, is this music usable? Can they use it in their life? What I'm saying, can they use it?

Can they apply it to a situation or circumstance or even a problem? And so when they come up and say that, then I feel like, yeah, Erica, you did your job. So I give them a hug or talk to them or take a picture because I appreciate the fact that I have the opportunity with the world. You know what I mean? There was a time when I wanted to when I was, you know, sitting on a bunk bed holding a faultless spray starch. can, hoping for the opportunity to sing for the world. And so now that I actually get to do it, I never forget that time. I never forget the apartment. I never forget that time when, you know, raggedy Toyota Tarsel waiting for my opportunity. I never forget when my lunch was a

boiled egg. You know what I'm saying? Well, I'm doing here, hoping for my chance. I never forget listening to stand in my car going, gosh, I thought I was doing everything right. Why is it taking so long? I started singing at five. My first album didn't come out until I was 28. So that's a lot of time, you know. But if you are patient with God's time and you remember that, when I see people, I go, you waited for this. You pray for this. So I'm tired sometimes.

I'm overwhelmed sometimes. And, you know, it's not always easy, but I'm going, you pray for this. Pray for this opportunity. Okay, then my prayer becomes God give me strength to do this, to know when to set boundaries. And my team knows if they hear me go, all right. That means I know I'm empty. I don't stay beyond my capacity. I understand my capacity.

So sometimes I can say yes. Sometimes I cannot. You know, even at my church at Kelly worship, at the end of service, I go to the back and I shake hands. Well, some days I go, I don't have enough today. I don't want to respond wrong. I don't want them to see. I don't have enough of that today. So husband or worship leader, you handle it.

Because we got to say goodbye and thank you for coming. but I'm very aware of, like I said, I know who I am and I know who I'm not. Wearing many hats, wife, mother, sister, friend, cousin, okay? Artist, radio host, and First Lady of Callie Worship. And you just named something. I wondered, could you just be there and just be First Lady? Or do people be like, okay, that's the artist. can you be in that assignment

and that role of first I was blessed to have conversations with C.C. Wine and who does it well and with Karen Clark Sheard who does it well. It is not easy, but I've got a great great staff at the church.

She won't be singing every Sunday because you got to buy her record. But you know, I do altar call which means you're going to exhort and sing or if I do our faith declaration before offering time and sometimes the power and presence moves or it's had a tail end of what the worship team was singing. So they started singing this song called, You Did More Than I Ever Expected.

Yes. That song took me down. I know you went in. Yeah. It took me down. So, yes, sometimes not the artist, but just Erica, who loves to sing for Jesus, just comes out. But it's never planned.

It was never like, oh, Lady Erica Campbell is doing dot, dot, dot. I think the first time we're doing that is for this album. We were trying to decide where the release was going to be and what are we going to do it at a venue? My husband was like, just do it at the church. I was like, okay. Come on. I love that.

And y'all, she is on tour as we speak. Yes, so I've done New York at Sony Hall, which was phenomenal. And then we did D.C., Atlanta, Chicago, or do L.A., Sacramento. You know, the whole thing. You know how it goes. Just follow me on social media. You'll see you.

So, live. Do you feel like it's your last album? Do you ever feel that way? Like, okay, I just want to be home. Y'all, y'all, this is, this is it. Okay, I love that. I love what I do. I absolutely love it.

Well, as we say in church, I won't belabor the time, but I'm wondering, because it's helping me, just for balance, with everything that you do, it has to take an understanding spouse to cover you, push you and be like, I got you. Because he's like, I know she's coming back home anyway. You know. And as a pastor's wife, how has that been?

So he is very, very understanding, so supportive of all that I do. And if ever I'm gone too long, he just hops on a plane. We were in Atlanta. Krista just turned 19. So he came and, you know, we had brunch with her and hung out and went to an event together, smack dab in the middle of this promo. schedule. So we make our moments. He was like, I'm the boss and you're the boss. When we need to stop and see each other, that's what we'll do. And so using wisdom of when we need to take that time,

you know, to reconnect, to make sure that we strengthen each other, because that's how I see it. I see us as strengthening each other. And then, you know, we go out and conquer the world. He always says make it count. He was like, just don't leave for nothing. And sometimes when it's hard, you know, and we don't want to leave each other or there's something going on. because now Zaya's performing, she's dancing. My son is producing. He's in the Yola, which is Youth Orchestra of Los Angeles. You know, he says when you leave, just make it count.

So sometimes even if there's a little sadness in my heart, I'll just go, all right, babe. I'll make it count. Because you have to, you know, when you commit to something, sometimes you say yes, when you don't realize I'm going to be tired by the time this gig comes. And I honor my commitments. And, yeah, we just make it. Erica, thank you so much for checking in. The foundation of checking in is about mental health. And so if you feel like someone could be tuning in today who's just been maybe having or feeling like they've been having some debilitating anxiety or just depression that is making them stuck, feeling stuck, can you speak into them? Yes. I would say that life and death lie in the power of the tongue, but I'll take it even further. It can lie in your thoughts, life and death. And you can decide to keep your mind stayed on him and he'll keep you in perfect peace. And you can renew your mind and also go to therapy. But you can make some different choices of what you're watching, what you're seeing, and what you are saying about yourself, what you say to yourself about yourself is so important.

I speak life, health, and healing. I speak the love of God over your life. Whatever it is that's plaguing you, the thoughts that won't go away that keep you up in night. I pray the peace of God so that you rest. His word says he wants his beloved to have rest. We are beloved of God. You are fearfully and wonderfully made. Rest in that.

Trust that. Say that to yourself. Shut out the voices, you know, whatever you need to do. Therapy, your prayer circle, your vision. village, just don't try to do it by yourself. You don't have to do this by yourself, you know. Know that there are people praying for you and wishing you well. And I hope you shine. I hope you thrive. I hope you overcome. I hope you walk in your wealthy place and your divine purpose and look cute doing it. Come on.

Y'all, listen, I feel like I'm going to sleep good tonight. I don't think I snore, but I think I might even get a little snoring. I mean, I'm a lot. I don't know if I'm a lot. I don't know if I nor not. Whoever is listening to if that prayer was for you and her speaking life into you and over you, I pray that your sleep tonight is some of the best sleep you have ever

had. Y'all, please make sure you check out her new album. I love you. Her fall tour feel all right. Y'all make sure if you can, if you can check her out, go ahead and hang out. Okay, you can be ratchet. It's fine. You're good.

You good. You good. You good. Thank you for checking in. My pleasure. I love you, Michelle. I love you. I'll see you soon. See there, I told y'all, listen, Erica Campbell just, that's just what she is. She's such a gift.

And she just has a way about herself that just makes you feel better, better. And she lives what she sings about. And that's why when you're around her, if you're sad, you'll become happy. you'll be strengthened, you'll be inspired. And so I am just so praying that this episode does for you what the conversation with her has done for me. Yeah, there are moments where I have guests where I get a lot out of the conversation too. All right. So just know that I love y'all so much.

And thank y'all so much for supporting, checking in and downloading the episodes. I cannot wait for 2024. I'm already anticipating 2024 and the good things that we've got in store. So be patient with me as I make some pivots and all that stuff. We're working. We're working.

We're working. All right. I love you. Checking in with Michelle Williams is a production of IHeart Radio and the Black Effect. For more podcasts from IHeart Radio, visit the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcast, or wherever you listen.

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