The Breakfast Club - Ricki Lake Opens Up About 90's Talk Show, New Birth Control Doc, Hair Loss, Ayahuasca + More

Episode Date: July 5, 2022

Today we're taking a look back at some of our favorite interviews and today we're throwing it back to television ICON, Ricki Lake's first time visiting The Breakfast Club!See omnystudio.com/listener f...or privacy information.

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Starting point is 00:00:00 Had enough of this country? Ever dreamt about starting your own? I planted the flag. This is mine. I own this. It's surprisingly easy. 55 gallons of water, 500 pounds of concrete. Or maybe not. No country willingly gives up their territory. Oh my God.
Starting point is 00:00:16 What is that? Bullets. Listen to Escape from Zakistan. We need help! That's Escape from Z-A-Q-istan on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Hey guys, I'm Kate Max. You might know me from my popular online series, The Running Interview Show, where I run with celebrities, athletes, entrepreneurs, and more. After those runs, the conversations keep going. That's what my podcast
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Starting point is 00:03:07 So listen to Still the Place on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen to podcasts. Wake that ass up. In the morning. The Breakfast Club. Morning everybody, it's DJ Envy, Angela Yee, Charlamagne Tha Guy. We are The Breakfast Club. We got a special guest in the building.
Starting point is 00:03:27 Absolutely. Ricky Lake. The legend. The legend. Good morning. You're too kind. Good morning. Nice to see you. Oh, well, funny you should mention that. I'm doing a new show where I'm doing a podcast with my old show called Raised by Ricky.
Starting point is 00:03:39 Raised by Ricky. Yeah, what do you think? I think that's a great idea. I just realized what the concept is just now when you said it, because I just thought it was going to be, you know, you doing a podcast, you know, talking about current events, but you're reliving the show. Yeah, we're going to go back in time and break down these episodes. Wow.
Starting point is 00:03:55 Because, you know, Lemonada Media is an amazing podcast company. These women are badasses, and they approached me, and I've been asked to do a podcast, as everyone has over the years, and I was like, no. Abby Epstein, my partner and I, we talked about it. My filmmaking partner. I'm so happy she's here. But no, this concept, something about, you know,
Starting point is 00:04:14 first of all, it's a 30, this year's 30 years that I did the pilot of the Ricky Lake show. So I was 23 years old when I did the pilot. I'm now 53. So, you know, it was really interesting to me. I think what we were able to do back then, I didn't think of it at the time as groundbreaking, but the issues we were able to cover, the way we treated gay people, the way we treated
Starting point is 00:04:33 mixed race couples, the way we, you know, it was just we covered a lot of bases. And I think it'll be really interesting to go back with the lens of now, where we are now. Have we made progress? Have we gone backwards? And we're going to have a co-host that's Gen Z, that's probably someone who's non-binary, certainly
Starting point is 00:04:49 a person of color, and who didn't grow up with me, and kind of tell the story and bring back old guests, old experts, and I think it'll be a lot of fun. You know what I love about shows like Ricky Lake, even Donahue back in the day, even early Oprah, y'all sat down with people you had differences with. You sat down with people you may not have agreed with.
Starting point is 00:05:06 Nowadays, if you do that, they'll call you problematic. I don't understand that. I don't either. I mean, and that's why I'm glad I don't have the show that I had back then now. It just feels like you're walking on eggshells no matter what you do. You're going to piss someone off.
Starting point is 00:05:20 And yeah, I just think it's going to be a cool experiment. I mean, I think we're all nostalgic for that time, the 90s, and I'm up for it. No, I'd love to see you and Arsenio do that. Arsenio? Yeah, I would love to see that. I'd love to see that. Oh God.
Starting point is 00:05:36 No, before, we didn't ask one question. What's that? How are you? I'm amazing. I am the best me I have ever been, which is like I did that show and my name was on the rug and I didn't really have a sense of who I was. And I think in making these documentaries that I've been making with Abby for more than 15 years, I've really come into a place of like knowing my voice and what I believe in and what I stand for. And I've now, you know, gone dark.
Starting point is 00:05:59 I lost my partner five years ago to bipolar and suicide. But I've now five years later met the man of my dreams, and I just got married two months ago. Congrats. I'm living my best life. Thank you so much. How are you, Abby? I'm so good.
Starting point is 00:06:11 I'm so happy to be with this woman. We just had our double feature premiere last night, and we watched this movie we made 14 years ago in the same theater that it premiered in at the IFC Center business of being born and we just both sat there with my son who's now 15 who was born in the movie Wow and like we had chills the whole time you know because we're watching this going I can't believe that we made this in 2008 it still holds up
Starting point is 00:06:40 it was powerful before you met, what made you start the Ricky Lake Show? You were only 24 years old. What made you think this is what I want to do? You want to know the honest truth? Absolutely. It was the job that came along. Honestly, I had been a guest. You guys are younger than me. Not by much.
Starting point is 00:06:59 I'm 53. I'm 43. I did hairspray when I was 18 and I, Letterman, David Letterman was a big fan of John Waters. And so he would have me on over and over again, kind of like Sandra Bernhardt back then. And it was from those appearances that they thought of me. They were, this guy, Garth Ancier was kind of media whiz. He wanted to do a younger show because he looked at Oprah and Donahue and they were skewing over 55. So they wanted to do something to skew towards younger women, primarily women 18 to 34, 18 to 49.
Starting point is 00:07:27 So they went on a search, and I was one of 100 women at that time. I went and flirted with three gay guys. I didn't know they were gay, but I just brought out my skills. And they gave me the pilot. I was, like, so broke at that time. I was living in a pool house in the valley north of Victory, if anybody knows where that is. No one spoke English.
Starting point is 00:07:44 And I, you know, I was kind of, couldn't get my agent to call me back, and I got this opportunity. I was like, all right, I'll do it for $5,000. I needed my rent paid for a year, and I'll do it for that. Luckily, we renegotiated, and it turned into this phenomenon,
Starting point is 00:07:55 and it wasn't a calculated move. Every step of my career, including the business of being born, is never coming from a place of, like, seeing the big picture. It's really about, all right, that sounds good. I could do it. So I think I have this confidence in me
Starting point is 00:08:08 and also this naivety, and it's worked out. For the first time, you got $5,000 to do the show? Well, yeah. Yeah, I did. But the first season, so then my agent did get involved, and they packaged the show, of course. So the first season was $5,000? No, the pilot.
Starting point is 00:08:21 Oh, okay. The pilot was initially, that was my opening bid, was I'll do it for $5,000. And then the first year, you know, my salary, I don't remember what it was, but at the end of the first year, the show was such a huge success. This is 1993.
Starting point is 00:08:32 They gave me a bonus of a half million dollars. Wow. Really? Yes. A lot of money in 93. That was a lot of money for Ricky Lake. I was broke. My house was foreclosed at that time.
Starting point is 00:08:43 Yeah, I was needing that money. And it was, you know, that show, it was, I mean, it was just my life. Like I didn't have the concept, like I'm 24 years old. I don't even know who I am. You know, like the audacity to get on that stage and moderate these panels. But I think looking back at it, I, I was, I was the perfect kind of person for that role because I was a good listener.
Starting point is 00:09:04 You know, I was very forthcoming about my own hardships. I'm curious. I'm so fascinated by people. I don't judge people. And so I think those are— And you're so real. You're so real. Anybody who meets Ricky, any of my friends, anyone who meets Ricky in five minutes, they go,
Starting point is 00:09:19 that woman has the biggest heart. She's just so real. Like, you don't meet a lot of celebrities that are like that anti celebrity quality and I think that's really what worked on that show the show was a party you know it was just like you know the people that came to our show they waited months and months and months to get tickets back then and you know it was always surprising I mean it was a little formulaic I have to admit like I knew you know I knew from the names I could tell okay this is a black story. The first guest, the first guests were always the most outrageous, you know, and then we'd have the white story and then we'd, you know, we'd balance it out.
Starting point is 00:09:52 But I feel like we we did do a lot of good. Like, you know, we we definitely saw people and many times at their worst. But I feel like I treated everyone equally. I treated everyone with compassion and it was a good time. You said something earlier that was interesting. You said, you know, it says a lot, right, about what women had to go through. Because you're obviously talented. But you said you had to flirt with the executives.
Starting point is 00:10:16 I don't think it was a prerequisite. It was just my, it was my M.O. But I mean, did women feel that way? Or was that just. Well, I wasn't even, like, I was, you know, very, like, heavy set. And very heavy set and I wore a big flower hat probably. I didn't have a really game. I didn't have any game back then. But I knew how to be
Starting point is 00:10:32 charming and appealing and it worked. It worked in my favor. That's the only game I know. I was going to ask, how did you guys meet? How was that? You tell them. I was directing a show. Do you remember the show? The vagina monologues? Yeah. Yeah. Do you remember that? That was also like started in the,
Starting point is 00:10:51 in the 90s. They made an HBO. Yeah. HBO did a special, but it was a play off Broadway, ran for a really long time. Um, and so originally we had three actresses that would rotate every two weeks. So every two weeks, three celebrities would come in and I would put them into the play. And Ricky came in one week. And like I said, she's so real, you know, like most of these celebrities. You know what I mean? I don't really want to get drinks with them after. I just want to do my job and go home.
Starting point is 00:11:22 And then Ricky and I rode the bus home together and she just had me on the floor. Like she just had me at hello. And so we met. And then, um, I guess this was like years later. We met in like 99 or 2000. I got pregnant with my second son and then I was wanting a home birth. Like I, I was, you know, getting educated about my options. And so I was telling her and she's like, you're crazy, you're crazy, you're crazy. 9-11 was a huge turning point for me where I was living downtown and I thought we were going to die. I watched the second plane hit the building
Starting point is 00:11:54 and in that moment of being on the roof of my building with my four-year-old and I had a two-month-old at the time, I said, I'm leaving if I get out of this alive. I'm leaving New York, I'm leaving this job and I'm leaving this man. I moved to LA. It took a year and a half. I had to I'm leaving. If I get out of this, you know, alive, I'm leaving New York. I'm leaving this job and I'm leaving this man. And I moved to L.A. It took a year and a half.
Starting point is 00:12:07 I had to finish my contract. I didn't end up quitting my show per se, but I ended. I didn't renew my contract that back then. And I wanted to start a new life. And that's when I started soul searching about where I what I wanted to do, where I could make a difference. And we made the business of being born. But, you know, I had her come out. I said, you've got to come out and see my fat house in Brentwood.
Starting point is 00:12:23 Yeah. And see my new life. Yeah. I like basically stopped at her new house, like on my way back to LAX, missed my flight because we started talking. And I had made one documentary at that point about violence against women. And I knew how to roughly make a documentary. And she was like, I have this idea for this project. It's about midwifery and home birth. And I was like, this does not sound commercial.
Starting point is 00:12:45 This does not sound like a hot seller. I had no idea what a midwife was and then she whipped out her little video camera. My nine hour home birth video on my little camcorder
Starting point is 00:12:56 and I gave it to her and I said, I hadn't even watched it. I gave it to her and gave her a couple of books and she came back and she goes, I think we can make a documentary
Starting point is 00:13:03 and then the magic of this film, it took three and a half years to make, is she got documentary. And then the magic of this film, it took three and a half years to make, is she got pregnant two years into the making of the film and then her story, her dramatic story
Starting point is 00:13:10 of her birth is the end of the film. That was intense last night when we were watching it again and Ricky's there with her new husband,
Starting point is 00:13:17 Ross, who's never seen the movie. I'm there with my son who's born in the movie, who's never seen the movie. My ex is sitting in front of me. It was like, and he shot the movie. It was really intense.
Starting point is 00:13:29 But yeah, so we both give birth, essentially, in that movie. So it's a really rare kind of documentary where it's a personal piece about the filmmakers. And then it's also like a very political piece. And it's still so relevant. What took so long for it to come out? Oh, three and a half years? Because that's how long they make. No, this one that we just released last night, the business of
Starting point is 00:13:49 birth control took seven years. That's what I'm saying. Seven. We started it in 2015 because 2015, first of all, you guys, nobody wants to give you any money to talk about. That's a fact. And especially if you're like, oh, we want to talk about women's health. Yeah, we want to talk about women's health.
Starting point is 00:14:05 Uh-huh. Yeah, we want to talk about like how crappy the birth control pill is. Yeah, I don't think I want to fund that. I mean, it's controversial. There's no celebrity in it.
Starting point is 00:14:16 And Big Pharma has their hands on everything. So for us to get into sort of mainstream media, there's all this backlash, you know? Yeah, you're not going to get... Coach Jessie's, I know,
Starting point is 00:14:23 a friend of your show. And she's, she's heavily in our film. She's in the movie. We love her. But like, this message, it's like Netflix, HBO, they're not going to make this movie with us. There's no way with what we want to say in the business of birth control. There's no way. So, you know, you start in 2015, you do a Kickstarter, you get a little chunk of money. You make a sizzle reel. You know, you just, it's like, and then we did this movie Weed the People in 2018. So we had like another movie in the middle of the movie. And that's about cannabis. That's about cannabis.
Starting point is 00:14:54 Yeah, that's about cannabis and children with cancer. And then, so yeah, it just, it takes a while. And also because like when you're making these films, these films take so much work, right? But they're also your side hustle in a way. Like nobody's paying you, you know, at the time. So you're just like working on them when you can. A little at a time, right? Yeah. They're just like passion projects.
Starting point is 00:15:13 They are passion projects, for sure. They always come out at the right time. Like I think the business of birth control releasing now, like this is the moment for it. Yeah, especially with women's, you know, reproductive rights women's reproductive rights being stripped away by these GOP people. So what is the business of birth control? Well, in the same way, did you ever see the business of being born? No, I haven't. I urge you to because it's really, you know, we take a hard look at what birth, you know, the birthing world, the medical system when it comes to birth.
Starting point is 00:15:41 And the same thing, we look at the pill, pill the history of the pill the racist piece of it did you know that they tested you tell they tested the drug the pill initially on on black and brown women in Puerto Rico mm-hmm yeah I mean I think that at the end of the day it's sort of like you can equate the business of birth control to in a way the opiate epidemic you know it's really profits over people. It's the way, you know, we know women's bodies have been co-opted and controlled and exploited for years. So like Ricky was saying, the film covers a lot of ground. It's truly mind-blowing.
Starting point is 00:16:21 I think people sit there for 90 minutes and they're like, I didn't know any of this shit. Like I literally didn't know anything in your movie. So one thing is we look at some of the products that are out there, like the NuvaRing that's had a lot, a lot of women die on it. And you never hear about any of it. You never hear about any of it because you get gag orders when you accept settlements. So when the drug company settles with all these victims, they're then not allowed to do any promotion. So the stories in our film are the families who wouldn't settle. They didn't take the money because they want to change the labeling on these products.
Starting point is 00:16:53 They don't want other girls to die. So we tell that story. And then, like Ricky was saying, you know, we look back in time over the way birth control has been tied into eugenics, the way that it's always been used to, you know, weaponize basically against communities of color, how obstetrics was literally founded on slavery in Africa, the pill was tested on women in Puerto Rico, and on and on and on. And then we also look at, in a positive way, you know, we look at this new generation that does not want to take the pill that their grandmothers took they're woke they're
Starting point is 00:17:30 ecological they don't want to put you know hormones yeah endocrine disruptors in their body and so if the pharmaceutical companies aren't gonna come along with like healthier options they're gonna make them up you know we're gonna invent them so you look at all these cool femtech entrepreneurs and in a way I think you know the younger generation it's like they're they're kind of a do-it-yourself generation they're not gonna rely on these big companies and so you know we look at all the innovation that's happening which is super cool did it explore any of a Margaret Sanger oh, yeah. Okay, okay, okay.
Starting point is 00:18:05 Oh, yeah. And that happened during the making of the film. It happened during the film, which was interesting. Yeah, so we, originally, I remember, like, Gloria Steinem saw an early cut, and, you know, everyone was worried about that Margaret Sanger legacy. Like, oh, you're going to take her down.
Starting point is 00:18:19 I think we're really fair to her in the movie, but then at the end of the movie, we show an update about how Planned Parenthood in New City took her name off the clinic so you know that it's not so like they Planned Parenthood finally had to come out and say you know let's be transparent like we cannot be identified with our founder um so again that's why I think the timing of the movie was so good because I think having that conversation about Margaret Sanger five years ago wouldn't have happened like we would have gotten a lot of pushback yeah my wife doesn't like birth control that's why i get a vasectomy now because we just had our fourth
Starting point is 00:18:52 daughter she's six months old yeah and it's like yeah she refuses to get back on birth control because it makes her sick she hates it yeah it's awful like all the options are terrible and you go out there and talk to anybody and they will tell you their birth control journey and they'll tell you every product they used and how depressed it made them or how they lost their sex drive or how they got in my case i mean i had hair loss i don't know if you know i shaved my head a couple years ago i was dealing with my hair is pretty much it came back but i actually that was because of the birth control well that's part of it i mean i think it's a lot of things i was putting extensions in my hair i was coloring my hair i was stressed about my hair i have androgenetic alopecia, which is the genetic
Starting point is 00:19:28 hair loss over years. Yeah, it was all of the above, but definitely birth control. If you mess with your hormones, think about it. And it's like what we say in the film is like, sometimes now these kids are getting put on 12, 13 years old for acne, for cramps. You'll see with your daughters, it's like you got to make these decisions, right? When you have like a 13 year old, 14 year old, that's like, oh, but my period cramps are so bad. And then the doctor saying, well, just put her on the pill. That'll take care of everything. That's how they treat everything. And that's not going to cut it. That's not going to cut it for the new generation. So I think it's like, you know, two things. One is there's a lot of things that people are getting put on the pill
Starting point is 00:20:07 for that have nothing to do with birth control, right? Acne, fibroids, PCOS, right? So we need actual treatments for these conditions. We need studies to happen on women. Studies, yeah. And then, you know, we need to be more educated about the menstrual cycle so that there's other ways to intervene and relieve cramps or whatever the issues are. Because what's happening is these girls are going on at like 12, 13, 14. They're not really, you know, their hormones are not really developing. They're on something that's cut, like basically putting them into menopause at 13. Yikes. And they're not and they're staying on it. Then they stay on it for
Starting point is 00:20:46 maybe 10, 20 years. I mean, these drugs were not designed or FDA approved to be on for 20 years. For long-term use. Yikes. Did you know that when you're on these drugs, it changes your pheromones? Yes. Changes who you're attracted to. They do this t-shirt test that was out of what, Sweden or something? Scotland, yeah. So it's actually your pheromones. It's like how you can smell out attraction, right? So you know how if you have sex with certain people, you like their smell, you don't like their smell, right? That smell is actually giving your body information about their DNA.
Starting point is 00:21:21 It's actually telling you whether you're going to make healthy offspring with that person. And when you go on these birth control products, it takes that like animal sense offline. So you can't smell anymore. So they say like for women, the line is you're going to be attracted to someone who's more like brother than other. So you're attracted to more maybe kind of feminine men you know men that aren't don't have that kind of opposite polarity and so you hear this a lot anecdotally right that women either go like are with a partner decide they need some protection go on the pill suddenly they're not attracted anymore or the opposite or the opposite when they go
Starting point is 00:22:04 off to family plan they suddenly are not into their guy y'all about to make YouTube conspiracy thing YouTube conspiracy so does it can even help you can make you change your agenda you like as well no no okay so how did you get your hair back healthy so back healthy? So I think it's a lot of things. Like I said, I don't stress anymore. I mean, when I shaved my head in grand fashion at the turn of 2020, I mean, I did it in a way. Can you curse on this show?
Starting point is 00:22:34 Yeah, sure. Okay, I said, fuck it. Like I was so done with struggling about my hair. It was my deep, dark secret. Every time I looked in the mirror, I could see my scalp, and it just drove me crazy crazy and the extensions were pulling. I'm sure much of your audience knows what that's like.
Starting point is 00:22:47 It's just, it was painful and it was, because I was a public figure and because I'm so outspoken and honest and authentic, this was this piece of myself that I was hiding and I just decided,
Starting point is 00:22:58 all right, I'm going to rock a bald head. I don't know how it's going to look. My friends were telling me, don't worry, you can do it. You're going to be able to pull it off. And I just did it and gave up. And then I came into finding this product that I'm now an ambassador of. I've never taken an endorsement in my 30-plus year career.
Starting point is 00:23:13 It's called Harclinicin, and it's a shampoo and extract and something about the fermentation. I can't explain it, but it's non-toxic, and it's helped my hair to be as healthy as it can be. Now, you know where I'm going next. Were you offended by Chris Rock's joke towards Jada Pinkett Smith? I mean, I was more offended by his actions. It's like, by Will Smith's actions. I mean, like I used to say on my old show, violence is never the answer.
Starting point is 00:23:35 And the fact that it went to that extreme, I mean, nothing, nothing that comes out of anyone's mouth justifies a physical altercation. But I also did feel for Jada in that moment because I would hate to be the butt of that joke if someone were. And that was one of my fears when I did shave my head. Like I didn't know what the reaction would be and I couldn't think that far ahead,
Starting point is 00:23:56 but I was so scared of people making fun of me or calling me names. So it definitely struck a nerve for me because I think women suffering with that condition, it's not funny. What if he didn't know? No, no, I think there's a lot to the story, I mean we're all speculating but I think there was a history with them and the Oscars
Starting point is 00:24:16 so I don't know, I mean I saw this morning that her reaction to the slap after the slap, she sort of smiled I mean, we don't know, but I know for me personally, definitely a joke about a woman's hair loss is not funny. How have you been doing mentally?
Starting point is 00:24:30 Because we talk about a lot of the things, right? We talk about your husband that took his life and the hair loss and everything that you've been going through. How have you been doing? And how have you been coping? Well, now, I mean, now I'm literally in the happiest place
Starting point is 00:24:43 in my entire life, which says a lot because I've been a really happy person. I've had a blessed, you know, abundant life and career. My kids are great. I mean, that's really the start. It's like you're only as happy as your least happy child. And both my kids and my four stepchildren are all great right now.
Starting point is 00:24:58 And my new husband is just a dream. So, you know, I feel like I've been given a second lease on life. You know, after losing Christian, I mean, I never thought I could be as low as that. I mean, the level of despair, um, I had to be literally physically picked up off the floor. And I remember, I mean, this was just five years ago. I would force myself. I had a dog and I would force myself to walk outside at the beach and smile at the Sun and find gratitude find something to be grateful for and I you know there were dark dark days I never thought I'd be in a place of peace and happiness and I really am like I just like I said when we first started I it's like I feel like I'm the best me that
Starting point is 00:25:38 I've ever been I really know myself I really love myself I've caught you know through this journey of shaving my head and And that was a bad ass move. And I came out of it. OK, you know, so like all of it is a journey. I'm 53. And I guess when you turn 50, you kind of get a sense of who you who you are. And also, you don't care what people think as much. Yeah, I don't really care what people think of me.
Starting point is 00:26:01 I know my side of the street is clean. I'm a good person and I appreciate every day. So to answer your question, I'm great. How does one allow themselves to love again and be loved after something like that? I've always felt that I've been deserving of love. I think I chose partners that either were physically a certain way
Starting point is 00:26:23 so I felt better about myself. I chose partners that needed me. So I saw my value in that. They needed fixing or they needed taken care of. I mean, this is the first time in my entire life, and I've had many, this is my third marriage, where I'm with someone who's my equal, who brings as much to the relationship as I bring.
Starting point is 00:26:41 And that, I think, comes down to self-worth and self-love. Was there any guilt? Because I'm sure people will say to you, oh, five years, that wasn't long, but who were they to say that? Oh, yeah. That was a long five years. It was a long five years, and I don't care what anybody has to say. And I continue to honor this man that I lost.
Starting point is 00:27:04 I mean, he was my greatest teacher to this day. He's my greatest teacher. Christian Evans was so special and so ill. And I didn't even know what bipolar was when I got with him. I'd never experienced it. You know, he told me when we met, he's like, oh, I was diagnosed bipolar.
Starting point is 00:27:18 And I was like, oh yeah, and I'm a control freak. We all have our things. I didn't understand what a manic episode was. And so, you know, with Kanye, I mean, I like, I really, I re I just, I just know that the, to be the loved one going through that and, um, you know, losing Christian the way I did. I mean, for me, the trauma was the episode, the first episode versus the suicide, because seeing your loved one change on a dime and and become so destructive and and so like just someone I didn't recognize. But, you know, I've done a lot of work in these five years. And and I think also with Ross, my husband now, I mean,
Starting point is 00:27:58 it's like I deserve him. You know, it's really like I know my value and I know I really just I called him in, you know I manifested him and I you know, just just I yeah, I relish this time in my life in this relationship You've lived all the big pop culture stories of the past I have I mean it's all so sort of it resonates, you know I mean the Oscars like I you know I mean, it's all so sort of it resonates, you know, I mean, the Oscars like I, you know, I was going on Monday. I did a promotional for this hair company that I've been working with. And there's the night before that that happened with the joke. You know, it's just yeah, it feels like my life.
Starting point is 00:28:33 My life is a movie. It really it really is. So true. You have lived them all. And also, you know, she's she speaks about them like she's gone to give talks on on mental health and yes and I think that that's um you know it's I think just being a witness to what she went through with Christian you know that kind of bipolarity it is so tricky it is so tricky because it doesn't present as an illness like it sometimes presents first as if the person's actually doing great because you don't realize that they're ascending toward that that mania, you know, so it's it's you can't intervene. You can't tell somebody, oh, I think you're a little, you know, it's it's it was it was an impossible situation.
Starting point is 00:29:19 It was like you guys did everything, tried everything, therapy, drugs. I mean, I just feel for everybody dealing with this. That's what's super frustrating, to have the resources, to have the money. And I tried to save him. I saved him twice, and I couldn't save him a third time. And, you know, yeah, I'm the fixer. I'm someone that really does create. And I couldn't, and it was really, really hard to come to terms with that. I'd love to hear some of those practices you talked about.
Starting point is 00:29:47 You know, I'm big on mental health and mindfulness. And I heard you say you manifested, you know, Ross. Like, what are some of the things you do on a daily? I mean, no, on a daily. I was going to mention ayahuasca. I do not do that on a daily. I want to. Not on a daily, but I can't wait to do it.
Starting point is 00:30:01 It's calling me. They say don't do it until it's calling you. Yeah, exactly. It has to be a calling. And the first time I did it, I did it with Christian. And I did it because he was doing it, and I didn't't wait to do it. It's calling me. They say don't do it until it's calling you. Yeah, exactly. It has to be a calling. And the first time I did it, I did it with Christian. And I did it because he was doing it and I didn't want him to do it without me. That is not the reason to do it.
Starting point is 00:30:11 It was a horrible experience. But I've done it now about 14 times over a period of the last 10 years. What does it feel like for people that don't know? Well, it's awful. It's going to hell and back. It's literally going to the darkest, darkest. I mean, oh my gosh. And every time has been so different.
Starting point is 00:30:30 I did it back in Ibiza. I did it in Northern California. I did it in Topanga. I've done it all over. And, you know, mostly my intention, you have to set an intention. And my intention to do it was letting go. And I did it once after Christian passed, twice after Christian passed away.
Starting point is 00:30:44 And you get these messages, you get these downloads and you see God. I mean, you see God. It is one time in particular that I was with Christian. I was up in Northern California under the redwoods and we were outside. It was during the day. It was the only time I ever did it in daylight. And I remember just being on the ground, like praying, bowing, and I could literally see and feel the earth's heartbeat in my hands pulsating. And it, oh my, you've got, I mean, just talking about it brings you back.
Starting point is 00:31:15 I mean, it's medicine. They say you do 10 years of therapy in one night of ayahuasca. And I think that's true. The plant, that was the time the plant told you, let him go. Yes, you have to let him go plant told you, let him go. Yes. Let him go. You have to let him go. I mean, I've had, yeah, it's been, I mean, I'm not called to do it again right now, but I certainly, it's very powerful medicine.
Starting point is 00:31:32 I've also done combo. I've done that twice. I've done, I mean, I'm like a seeker. Combo is the frog poison. Oh, told. No, it's not the 5-MAO-DMT. It's what they burn your skin burn the top layer of your skin, and they put the medicine in, and it does a scan.
Starting point is 00:31:48 It's supposed to be the strongest natural antibiotic, and it can heal you from so many different ailments. So I've done, I mean, I'm like a seeker. I'm curious, and I'm always up for growth. So I'm trying to think of the other things I've done. What have I done? Oh, Burning Man. I started going to Burning Man. What's Burning Man. I started going to Burning Man.
Starting point is 00:32:06 What's Burning Man? You're joking. Burning Man feels like White Freaknik. It is for everyone. Burning Man is a... It's a festival in the desert. It is not a festival. It is a city that takes place over a week. You have
Starting point is 00:32:20 never heard of Burning Man? I have. All my friends go to Burning Man. The best place in the world. I'm going. You've never heard of Burning Man? I have. All my friends. The best place in the world I'm going. You've never heard of Burning Man? You've never heard of Burning Man? Oh my goodness. You need to Google it, my friend. Like Bob Pittman, all of them go every year. I know Bob and Veronique.
Starting point is 00:32:37 And yeah, I mean, it's a place where you go and you are in that moment. You are present. You are free. You engage with people. It's a city. There's no exchange of currency or anything. You bring gifts, but you give gifts and you don't do it for anything other than giving.
Starting point is 00:32:54 People are at their highest vibe at Burning Man. It's a place where they call drugs medicines. That's all you need to know. But you don't have to do drugs. You do not. They have AA meetings have to do drugs. You do not. They have AA meetings on the playa. You do not have to do anything you don't want to do, but it's like
Starting point is 00:33:10 magic happens on the playa. I don't know. I guess I'm sounding too I'm going to go one day. My homie Andrew goes all the time. He was like, you got to call me the Burning Man one year. I'm going to go one year. If you're called to do it, I urge you to go. I haven't been called to do it. I'll see you on playa. I've been called to do ayahuasca but not Burning Man. Let me just tell you, the Playa
Starting point is 00:33:26 is a lot more fun. What is Playa? Playa is a plant-based country? No, the Playa is where Burning Man they call it. That's the desert, the land. Now, you did 12 seasons of the Ricky Lake. 11. 11 seasons. Oh, well, 11, and then I went back and did a new version of the show. That only ran for one year, but I won the Emmy that year.
Starting point is 00:33:42 And you said you walked away from it? I did. The first show. I just didn't renew. Yeah, I mean, it had kind of run its course. 9-11 had happened. I just, I wanted to get out of New York. I was going through a divorce. I mean, it just kind of fell apart. I mean, you know, Maury just ended his show. I mean, I feel like
Starting point is 00:33:57 I could have had a run like that. No. Not your personality. No, no, no, no, no. I love Maury, but I, yeah, 11 years was enough for the first show. The second show, I wanted to do more of a Donahue type show. That was my concept. I wanted to be elevated content, more provocative and thought-provoking, and it didn't turn out to be that.
Starting point is 00:34:15 What was the difference between the first run and the second run? Because like you said, you won an Emmy for the second run. One was successful. I don't know. The first one, I mean, I think the timing of the first one and being in New York at that time was magic. You know, the second one, I was in bed with the wrong company. I think the executive that was in charge of my production, we had different visions.
Starting point is 00:34:33 You know, he wanted a different type of show than I wanted to do. And I, you know, it goes back to making the business of being born with Abby. I kind of have a sense of who I am in a way that I didn't back then. And yeah, so it was just, you know, in bed with the wrong person. You did some good shows, though. You really did. We did. We did.
Starting point is 00:34:48 I actually did a show on suicide, which is so interesting because I didn't have, I didn't have a history, like I didn't know that at the time, but I was called to do it. And I fought so hard. He said it was never going to rate. It was never going to. And I felt like we needed to do it. And it was one of the shows I'm really proud of. Wow.
Starting point is 00:35:04 How difficult is it for any person to have a successful daytime talk show? Oh, my God. I think it's near impossible. I mean, in the time that I did my show, 11 years, and we used to go to the Natby convention every year, and there'd be, you know, a dozen, half a dozen new shows come and go, and they'd last for, you know, not very long. I think it's a rare talent.
Starting point is 00:35:25 Like, it's like, I don't think it's something that was taught to me. I think it was like a natural fit, you know, for me. It's a unique relationship, I think, that you have with the world. More than being an actor on a TV show. I feel like because Ricky was in everybody's living room and people ran home from school at 3 o'clock every day to watch ricky lake watch ricky lake like literally you know i can see just from traveling the world with her like we'll be in some hotel lobby in australia and like you know like 10 gay men will come up to her like sobbing you know and say oh my god you you validated us and you don't know what you meant and you know what and i think they have a different relationship with her just because the nature of that show it's like it's like she was the
Starting point is 00:36:09 perspective of the audience you know what i mean like she was she was sort of your lens into this like world of of madness so it's it's interesting to see i've never really seen um i've never really seen anybody where it's kind of like her fans appreciate her in a way. Like yesterday, we're walking down the street and people are screaming her name down the street in New York. That's Rikki Lake. I saw you on Wendy Williams this morning. Hi, Rikki. Hi, Rikki. Like she just feels approachable, more approachable in that way, because I think we lose sense of how many people grew up on her. Like it was one of the original formats.
Starting point is 00:36:46 And I think the 90s, celebrity actually meant something in the 90s. Yes. It doesn't, anybody can. You can lick the bottom of a toad's foot now and be a TikTok star. You know what I'm saying? Celebrity meant something in the 90s. And it feels like everyone, or a lot of people have an agenda. Like it's like, it's whether to sell a product
Starting point is 00:37:05 or push some, you know, and I guess in a way we are pushing our, but our thing is to help women. Our documentary. Our documentary. Our big. Yeah. You know, but yeah,
Starting point is 00:37:16 celebrity has changed. I agree. And just the tone that like, I don't know how you guys do it. I don't know if you ever like second guess what you're about to say for fear of like,, backlash or something. But I feel like I was able to say, you know,
Starting point is 00:37:30 I didn't have to, like, censor myself before I say it, you know? Where you're not getting canceled. Yeah, we've been canceled a million times. I mean, we've been doing it for 12 years. So it's like, things have changed over the past 12 years. But has it shifted in these 12 years? Oh, yeah, 100%.
Starting point is 00:37:41 So it's things that they try to go back and cancel us for. But when we said it back then, it was nothing, you know? Right, right, right. So it's just, that's the weirdest part to me. Yeah.
Starting point is 00:37:51 Because nobody wants to have the conversation about how culture shifted. It's kind of hard to hold people accountable for things they said in public forums 10 years ago,
Starting point is 00:37:59 15 years ago. Culture shifted. Exactly. I felt like that last night when we watched both our movies back to back, you know, and we were watching this movie we made 14 years ago and i'm a little nervous watching it you know just for that reason because you're sitting there like oh did we have enough people of color in the movie oh god we just said something about britney spears
Starting point is 00:38:17 in the movie you know you know things that like today might not fly you know i was gonna ask we always talk about the mount rushmore things, Mount Rushmore of comedians. What's your Mount Rushmore of talk show hosts? Okay, Oprah for sure. Oprah. Donahue. I loved Donahue back in the day. I loved Arsenio. I watched him every night. Oh, can we do
Starting point is 00:38:38 late night too? We can talk late night? Oh, sorry. Let's give you daytime. Okay, daytime. Let me think. Oh my God, throw some names at me and I'll tell you what I think of them. Oprah, Donahue was a good start. Yeah, he did daytime. Okay, daytime. Let me think. Oh, my God. Throw some names at me, and I'll tell you what I think of them. Oprah, Donna, he was a good start. You got two. You need two more. I mean, Sally.
Starting point is 00:38:50 Sally. Sally. Sally. Sally. Wow. Oh, Montel. Montel was a good guy, too. Montel.
Starting point is 00:38:57 I just did that show with him. Remember? Yeah. I mean, there's more. There's more, but I'm like, there were so many. Come on. You just did that reunion on Tamron Hall. Who was there?
Starting point is 00:39:06 Oh, that was Rolanda was there, and Montel was there. Yeah, when Tamron was up here last week, and she said your name and Rolanda, and I was like, Rolanda. I mean, of course, I didn't think of Rolanda. I hadn't heard that name in a while. I was like, oh, shit, Rolanda. I mean, Tempest Bledsoe had a show.
Starting point is 00:39:21 Carney Wilson had a show. That's right. Were those successful? No, I don't think so. I think they only ran for a year. Queen Latifah, she had a show. Carney Wilson had a show. That's right. Were those successful? No, I don't think so. I think they only ran for a year. Queen Latifah, she had a show too. Queen Latifah, yep, yep, yep. I mean, yesterday I went and did the Wendy Williams show without Wendy Williams,
Starting point is 00:39:33 but it was in my old studio. Oh, wow. So I hadn't been back there in like 15 years, 16 years, something like that. I think that was Montel's old studio too, right? Yeah, Montel. Maury was there too. It's at the 26th Street Studios. But yeah, it's all just like,
Starting point is 00:39:47 it just feels like these chapters in my life. And now with this new podcast I'm going to do, I get to go back. And I think it'll be good. Yeah, I wonder with the Raised by Ricky podcast, what did it make you miss most about doing the Ricky Lake show? The money. The money.
Starting point is 00:40:04 You look back at it like, I'm so glad I turned down that money. It was so real. I mean it was funny money I didn't even like like getting a bonus of a half million dollars come on come on that's like the budget of our entire documentary it was just it was crazy were you smart were you smart with your money or did you I'm okay yes I'm I'm just fine thank you but believe me like crypto I got in I relatively early 2017 early early super well big you know my guy calls me his you know Bitcoin wife you know like a nine cow. My guy was an ex-devout Mormon. So he brings up these Mormons. Anyway, anyway.
Starting point is 00:40:53 You do well. I did okay. I did not do like Oprah. I love Rosie O'Donnell too. Rosie's a great, great, great friend of mine and a great talk show host. Yeah, I don't have like the money that that these other people have but i'm also i saw jim carrey did an interview yesterday he's retiring
Starting point is 00:41:09 he's like and he said he has enough and that's how i feel i i don't come from a place of the work i do is not about the money i make now it's really about putting out good work good we appreciate you guys for joining us thank you so much well i do want to ask one more question what's that two more do talk show hosts reach out to you to get tips? They did. I'll tell you, Rosie and Ellen both called me before they went and did their shows because they wanted to know what the schedule was like, how it worked. Not late.
Starting point is 00:41:36 No, not of late. I've been off the air. I haven't done my show in so long. But I feel like I do have some good pointers. And I would say the main thing is to be a good listener. That's, you know, I think that's what I was best at, is reacting to what I was seeing. You know, I didn't wear an IFB,
Starting point is 00:41:52 and that's something they fought me on every year. They just wanted, you know, the control room and the producers wanted to have access to me. And I didn't want anyone ever putting anything in my mouth, you know. So I would have cue cards if they needed me, but I refused to have an IFB. So I just love that, yes, that show back then, I didn't really know who I was,
Starting point is 00:42:09 but I was in the moment and present and tried to be kind and tried to have some fun and do some good. I got one more question. Take this with water. Yeah. Just in case. How does Ricky Lake want to be remembered?
Starting point is 00:42:24 Oh, my goodness. He has a good time. How does Rikki Lake want to be remembered? Oh, my goodness. Has a good time. I'm a good time. I am. That's what you want on the tombstone. Rikki Lake, she was a good time. I want my legacy.
Starting point is 00:42:40 It makes me happiest when people recognize me and know my work from the work I do with Abby, the business of being born. These documentaries, I believe, are changing the world, making the world a better place. And they're the most personal projects, and they take a lot of work, a lot of effort. I'm really proud of them. You have shifted some culture. Yes, we have.
Starting point is 00:42:57 We have. Thank you guys for joining us. Thank you so much. Abby, thank you so much. Where can the documentaries be seen? Yeah. Yes, we're streaming. You can pre-order now at thebusinessofbirthcontrol.com.
Starting point is 00:43:07 We're self-releasing it, so we don't have a big studio behind us. You just go to thebusinessofbirthcontrol.com, and it's going to be streaming April 8th. And the Ricky Lake Raised by Ricky podcast? Starting October 2022. Available everywhere you listen to podcasts. Yep, exactly. All right.
Starting point is 00:43:23 Thank you. Well, this is The Breakfast Club. Thank you, Ricky Lake. Thank you, Abby. Thank you, exactly. All right. Thank you. Thank you, Breakfast Club. Thank you, Ricky Lake. Thank you, Abby. Thank you, guys. Such a pleasure. Hey, guys. Hey guys, I'm Kate Max. You might know me from my popular online series, The Running Interview Show, where I run with celebrities, athletes, entrepreneurs, and more. After those runs, the conversations keep going. That's what my podcast, Post Run High, is all about.
Starting point is 00:44:06 It's a chance to sit down with my guests and dive even deeper into their stories, their journeys, and the thoughts that arise once we've hit the pavement together. Listen to Post Run High on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Had enough of this country? Ever dreamt about starting your own? I planted the flag. Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Oh, my God. What is that? Bullets. Listen to Escape from Zaka-stan. Get out! That's Escape from Z-A-Q-a-stan on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. As a kid, I really do remember having these dreams and visions, but you just don't know what is going to come for you.
Starting point is 00:45:03 Alicia shares her wisdom on growth, gratitude, and the power of love. I forgive myself. It's okay. Have grace with yourself. You're trying your best. And you're going to figure out the rhythm of this thing. Alicia Keys, like you've never heard her before. Listen to On Purpose with Jay Shetty on the iHeartRadio app,
Starting point is 00:45:21 Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Hey, y'all. Niminy here. I'm the host of a brand new history podcast for kids and families called Historical Records. Executive produced by Questlove, The Story Pirates, and John Glickman, Historical Records brings history to life through hip-hop. Flash, slam, another one gone. Bash, bam, another one gone. The crack of the bat and another one gone. The tip of the cap, there's another one gone. Each episode is about a different, inspiring figure from history,
Starting point is 00:45:54 like this one about Claudette Colvin, a 15-year-old girl in Alabama who refused to give up her seat on the city bus nine whole months before Rosa Parks did the same thing. Check it. And it began with me. Did you know, did you know? I wouldn't give up my seat. Nine months before Rosa, it was called a moment. Get the kids in your life excited about history by tuning in to Historical Records. Because in order to make history, you have to make some noise. Listen to historical records on the iHeartRadio app,
Starting point is 00:46:31 Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Hey, everyone. This is Courtney Thorne-Smith, Laura Layton, and Daphne Zuniga. On July 8, 1992, apartment buildings with pools were never quite the same as Melrose Place was introduced to the world. We are going to be reliving every hookup, every scandal, and every single wig removal together. So listen to Still the Place on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen to podcasts.

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