The Breakfast Club - Royce Da 5'9" & Courtney Bell Interview

Episode Date: August 9, 2022

Royce Da 5'9 and Courtney Bell stopped by to speak on 'The Heaven Experience', Owning Masters, Slaughterhouse and more.See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

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In the morning. The Breakfast Club. Morning, everybody. It's DJ Envy, Angela Yee, Charlamagne Tha God. We are The Breakfast Club. We got a special guest joining us today. Yes, indeed. We got Royce Da 5'9". Welcome back, brother.

What's up? What's up? What's up? What's up, my brother? What's up, my brother? What's up, Royce? This is my brother, Courtney Bell. Peace and love.

All right, this is Courtney Bell. Yeah, my longtime friend and partner, Keno. Keno. We all talk to him many times. Keno and Royce looking very slim and vegan, man. What's up? Nice, healthy-looking lifestyle on y'all brothers, I can see. Yeah, definitely a healthy lifestyle.

Not quite vegan yet, though. Not quite vegan yet. I'm not all the way converted, but I'm getting there. Almost there. What you been up to, Royce? How's everything been how's everything been i've been adjusting man adjusting to the pandemic you know i mean like it's tough it's a tough time you know i mean so i've been trying to keep myself mentally mentally stable i'm learning about myself i'm learning uh the biggest lesson i learned about myself is i don't need to be speaking all the time. I don't always need to be saying stuff.

You know what I'm saying? I'm trying to get my filter together. I'm trying to learn how to protect my energy, especially on Instagram, my timeline, what to look at, what should I just not look at. Correct. You know what I mean? So that's the biggest adjustment that I've been making. And then music, I'm always making music. So, you know, so right now we got a project called The Heaven Experience

where I actually, I took over ownership of a lot of my masters from back, dating back, you know, which is, I feel is super important now. You know, I feel like the artists, all artists should look at every song like a straight up asset, you know. We got all of these companies that for the most part don't even need to even know about music anymore they're just looking at it like an investment which it is you know what i mean so now is the best time to to make sure that you got ownership and make sure that you can um figure out new things to be able to do with the masters when you get them that's a lot a lot of people say you

know people want their masters they want their ownership but don't know what to do it don't know what to do it when they get them you know I mean so what's the purpose of having them and you don't know what to do it you don't know how to monetize them well think about this remember when it used to just be physical just physical copies you know you sell it it sells in the store one time and that's it now when you upload it to the streaming platforms it may not pay out in one big-ass lump like it may have before but it exists now it's just present you know I'm saying so think about it a lot of these companies they buying up all of these masters.

They're signing up all these artists, even at the lowest level. But then, you know, it's all catalog and it all adds up. You know what I mean? So I think it's key to just make sure that you have as many things on platforms as possible. And then, you know, other conversations can be opened up. So that's why this is happening, right? Because I'm looking at you like you got 15 songs. Ten of them are best ofs, basically, right? Yeah.

So is this why this trend of artists dropping projects with catalog, is that why this is becoming more popular? Just because people are getting their masters back? I'm not sure. I can't speak for anybody else. I know with me, as soon as I got them,

the first thing I wanted to do, because we had to take them down, get them, and then now we need to put them back up so that they're there you know i'm saying and then from there you know we can have skies a limit on what the conversation could be what was the process of getting it back was it you know some people have to wait a certain amount of time some people had to pay some people was just a conversation so what was the process which you get your masters back all of the above all the conversation time

yeah but you know when you when you have when you sign, you know, from our era, when we did deals, it was standard for the labels to have control of the master for like seven years, something like that. You know what I mean? So some of it was just waiting out to seven years, going back and getting them. And then it's a process, too, after that. So, you know, you got to go through a whole process after that. And then some of it was, oh, let me buy that then some of it you know it was all three you know what i

mean so i'm constantly on that grind like i want everything i want everything that i've ever done you know and then moving forward obviously keno and i are way more in the know now so moving forward there's no deal that we don't know how to do. Do you talk to a lot of the Detroit artists? Because Detroit is a new wave of artists coming out. Do you get a chance to speak with the younger artists and say, hey, this is how you should be signing your deals? Or is it one of those things when you're young, you're like, ah, fuck that, we know what we're doing anyway?

Nah, I speak to them as much as I can. This is one of them. This dude is like enlightened beyond his years. He's non-problematic. But there's a few artists, a few young artists in my studio that I kind of mentor, not to the degree of him. But there's a lot of companies. I call them like middleman guys. You know what I mean?

Like they come with a bag of money. They don't have much to offer but since they have money up front and they're catching these guys at a time where they kind of need money or they feel like that they need money um it's already in the contract i actually read somebody's proposal and it said um we will have ownership of the master in perpetuity and then we'll we'll split everything 60 40 60 us 40 you and give you a $5,000 advance. And he was thinking about signing that. For $5,000?

God damn. Because we don't. For $5,000? Number one, we program the thing short-sighted. Correct. Definitely. We have no kind of, like, idea of how to place value on that master so early on. We don't know what it's going to be worth until it comes out and then it goes.

And then it's like, damn, OK, now I know a little bit more. Now I want to go get the master back. Now it's the same old song and dance publicly from a public platform. You bashing some company or something like that, which that shit don't look good either. You know what I mean? But you get it. I get it. You understand.

You signed that deal for $5,000, right? This is what most people probably think. Not $5,000, though. It was $50,000. If it was something that somebody could see that they'd never seen before. This is what they think, you know. You make one hit.

The label puts out that one hit. Now you're making, remember, artists don't make $5,000, $10,000 a show if they got a hit. They're making $40,000, $50,000, $60,000 a show. Very rare. No, a lot of more. Very rare, man.

More than you think, man. $20,000, $30,000, $40,000. I think it's probably less than 1%. We just had this conversation on the way here. We were looking at the Jai and Irv interview. We was talking about Irv's position. And I honestly see Irv's position on it. I see Label's position. That see labels position that's probably why we we

balanced what we do if I'm a label or if I'm a person and I give you five grand and it goes nowhere you don't owe me that five grand back yeah right you know but when it goes somewhere it's an investment you invest in Apple Apple don't get to come to you and say, well, we're going to take our stocks back because we're making too much. It's a deal. The problem is we don't always understand the complexity of the deals because we don't come from homes where that type of business is discussed. But you can't be mad. You can't be mad. You have to have an attorney.

So that means your attorney looks over that paperwork in most cases yeah but your attorney is their attorney that's right we got we i give you an attorney it's just an attorney to label you all the time you can have an attorney but you know how that conversation came up in the car yeah i said do you think it's possible for me a black man to cultivate a real meaningful relationship with an artist and own his masters and I said yeah he said well for periods for any period of time I think so is there is there any point where that artist is gonna get a little bit wiser a little bit bigger and then look look at it in retrospect and it is it possible for him or her not to harbor some resentment?

Yeah, I agree with you, Royce. You have to renegotiate, though. Like, when that artist catches that hit, it has to be a point where it says, okay, I made my money back off the investment, because it's not just $5,000. You got to pay for travel. You got to pay for wardrobe.

That's the biggest part. You're paying for traveling. You're paying for shows. What would your renegotiation be? It depends how big the record is like perfect example right sorry cardi b when cardi b was first signed they put a lot into cardi b but then she took off that should have been a renegotiate right then and there you got the one of the biggest female artists give her half the company she's cardi b yeah 100 i. That's my opinion. I agree.

Once I recoup my money, me and her should be equal partners 50-50. But then what happens when you got five Cardi B's on your label? Exactly. And that's what I was going to say, too, about the Masters conversation.

It's about the investment you put in them. You know what I mean? I don't want none of your Masters if I didn't make a large investment. But if I made a large investment, eh, I could see why. I got to get it back.

Or we could do, I think, what we all should be doing which is as the older generation we need to get through to the youth and let them see it's a different way to do it that's this is probably the biggest disparity between the youth and the OG's that we've seen right we've all come in. We've all had mentors that we've seen and respected and learned a lot from. This is the first time where the youth is looking at us like there's a disconnect. And we think the disconnect is because as long as you can separate the youth from the experience, then it's easier to get them in these quick deals and take them for a ride.

And we're going to be held to a different standard than the labels would be. I mean, it's been like that. You hear the way niggas talk about Hov, Puff. You know what I'm saying? Don't nobody talk about Lior. Don't nobody talk about none of these labels. Correct. But listen, let Hov do something.

Let Chug do something. Let any of us do something. Then it's just like, oh, man, you wrong. How could you do that? You know what I mean? But when you invest in somebody, like, let's say you invest in him, you're paying for everything, right? Because he's getting a start.

So you're paying for studio time, right? People don't think studio time is expensive, but you're paying for studio time. You're paying for them lights to be on. You're paying for the engineer. You're paying for the food, the per diem, the water, traveling, hotels, wardrobe if they don't have it now he has to make a record if that record don't pop you don't get none of that money back

so and you're doing it on some family shit you know we're gonna spoil each other you know i mean and that creates a sense of entitlement you know i'm saying so it's just that's why that's why i asked in the context of building, cultivating a relationship. Because, you know, we do everything on some on some family shit, you know. So it's difficult to be able to do that kind of business and cultivate a relationship. That's why I feel like labels have existed with the evolution of technology. The way they have so long is because they can just keep it strictly business. Is that the other problem, too, though, that black executives do the family thing? We're a family.

We rock for life. We bad boy for life. Isn't that, shouldn't it just be more business? That's what it always feels like. Even when, like, you look at Meek signing to Ross or Drake and, you know, Nicki signing to Wayne. It's a family. It's a family when we win.

Yeah. But then when you start throwing them bricks out, then it's F that person that you just called then when you start throwing them bricks out then it's f that person that you just called your family you know yeah yeah i know i know i don't i don't have nothing to say to that because i mean but we we want it is kind of what it is that's where we come from though like we and our in our culture we come from broken families so the ability to make money with our family it ain't just music mean, it could be the dope game too. It ain't too many differences from the way we approach the dope game and music.

But at the end of the day, it still starts with leadership. Bro, I went out there when Puff was working on the press play album. I went out there to work for him. And this nigga had me in like a midi room just writing verses over and over and over again while he was in the big luxurious a room with all of his celebrity friends and shit and i was just like man this nigga ain't paid me you know i'm saying like this nigga grind me man about 10 years later after i was a little wiser i looked at him in retrospect man i had to hit him on a dm i didn't have his number i had to hit him on a dm I didn't have his number. I had to hit him on a DM, man, and tell him how much I appreciate him,

how much I took from that. Like, it was because of that process that I started to rewrite in my own creative process. Like, I didn't rewrite my own shit this much. Why don't I approach my shit with this same kind of intensity? I pulled that from it and just the opportunity, you know what I mean? Like sometimes, man, we take for granted the opportunity. And I looked at him and thought about how many great things

he's contributed to the culture and how much all of the bad stuff or the quote-unquote bad stuff is always placed in front of us. Same with Baby. I wish I could call Baby and tell him how great I think he is. You know what I mean? Because it's like every time you hear about these guys it's like, they on drugs. They doing this. Kissing this nigga in the mouth. This nigga doing this. But it's like, bro,

these niggas been existing since 1997. Nah, legends. 1997 has not stopped. If that was anybody else from any other culture of people, them niggas would be running the universe. No, you're right. We have to appreciate

even Dame. I seen Dame this weekend. I was on a panel with him. In the middle of the panel I had to say thank you. And he was like, for what? I was like, back then when I was doing mixtapes, even though it was like 99, I was like, you had an opportunity to do the Rockefeller mixtapes with Clue, with SNS, with Flex.

But you said you wanted a young DJ at the time, and you picked me. And I was like, thank you. Because you were cheaper. Shut up. That's fair. Shut up, man. You know, he was shocked that I said thank you. But I was like, you know what?

When you grow a little bit, you really understand how much of a, how grateful it was to have that opportunity. Because you don't have those opportunities. But I will say, though, 10 years ago, you wasn't no new nigga royce no no no no i was saying have you in the b room now you ain't no new yeah i was saying 10 years later from when that was you remember the press play out yeah but even with that did royce the five nine should have been treated with a little bit more respect i think no no No, no, no. I was on a private jet with him. We went to Tampa. Oh, okay, okay. It was just when we was up at Daddy's house. You remember how long ago Daddy's house was. You know what I mean?

I was, I was, he definitely, when he reached out to me, my man Slam, shout out to my man Slam, with his packs and shit, but he, Slam reached out to me, and I was definitely just sitting around Detroit at that time when he reached out, for sure. And I was going to ask, you know, with everything you've been doing in this industry, the ups, downs, the groups, solo projects, what makes you want to jump back into this on the executive side? I don't want to jump in on the executive side like that. I don't. Right now I'm more focused on mentorship, artist development,

because I'm an artist at heart. You know what I mean? Royce hate the business side. No, no, no, no, no, no. Because he's on the executive side. He just don't want to admit it. I don't. He's on the executive side.

I don't know if you know. He don't want to admit it. He don't want to say it. He don't. You're sitting in an interview with your artist, Royce. You brought up here. That's kind of an executive role. He's been calling me a suit for 25 years, man.

He don't want to admit it. Listen, I love doing business. I don't want to send the wrong signal. I love doing business. I don't look forward to doing certain kinds of business with people who I have a relationship with. It's very difficult. I'm a cancer. It's very difficult for me to separate business and personal you

know I mean somebody I care about it's gonna be hard for me to like this nigga be like yeah okay so this we're gonna do we gonna give him some standard but I can't do that that's what we defer because he's more he's more of the business side he's always been's more of the business side he's always been more focused on the business side because that's all he's ever been he's never been right on the creative side but you got to go through it again you're going to have to go through talking to producers yeah talking through artists talking to djs you're going to have to go through the gamut again that people that you think is family until you got a new project and they're like i don't know or you

want to beat and it's like for you royce i do it for free but for him you know you're gonna have to go through that again man even when I'm doing albums there's never been a time where I enjoy calling people for features I hate that part he's the worst that's why I stopped doing that especially especially in Detroit oh yeah you do me you did make sure you did Yes, and that's why I stopped. That's why Cali slapped all of y'all. He don't care. That's why he slapped y'all. He's great at it.

He doesn't mind being persistent. I'm from a place where if I ask you once and you say yes, I shouldn't have to ask you again. That's ego, though. It is. That's ego. Your ego get wounded one time, now you just want to fall back like, no, if you want something, go get it.

Cali is relentless. He is relentless. I tell these kids, you have to have a DJ Caled level of annoyance to make it in this business. I don't even know if I would categorize that shit as annoying. No, it's annoying. It's like relentless. It's relentless with this shit. I admire it.

I love it, too. I wish I had that. You know what I mean? But I can't do it because I get inside my own head real quick. You know what I'm saying? Like, this nigga know. This nigga know I'm calling him. You named this the heaven experience what I'm saying? Like, this nigga know. This nigga know I'm calling him. You named this the Heaven Experience.

Correct me if I'm wrong. Is there heaven in the name of your children? No, heaven is the name of my studio. Your studio. Oh, okay, okay, okay. It's the name of my label. Got you. Yes, heaven studio.

Okay. It's like a hub, man. It's like I built like a hub. Why you never came to the studio, man? I don't know. I was just in Detroit, too. Huh? We come back out there. I was just in Detroit dropping off packs. I'm going to come by there. Okay, hub, man. It's like I built like a hub. Why you never came to the studio, man? I don't know. I was just in Detroit, too. Huh? We come back out there.

I was just in Detroit dropping off packs. I'm going to come by there. Okay. Okay, yeah. So it's like a hub. That's kind of like where me and him got kind of tight at. You know, I've been new. I've always been a fan of him.

But it's a hub for artists to come develop. And when I say develop, I don't mean just come and just make a bunch of music. You know, like obviously the doors are open for them to come and do that as well. But just to come have conversation, man, about life shit, you know. Allow me to bestow some of my wisdom on your young process, because every single mistake you can think of that you're going to make, I made them. Times ten. That's where i learned all my greatest lessons you know i mean and i feel like um it's a part of it it's a part of

success and evolution to like apply that back to the environment apply that back to the generation coming behind you otherwise you can't consider what you're doing successful but part of it what made you decide to work with Royce? Same thing. I've always been a fan of him. I'm a lyricist. I feel like coming from Detroit, that's what we bred on. I'm a fan of him.

I'm a fan of Sean. And even outside of the culture, the Big L's, the Rock Kim's, I studied that growing up. So I studied his cadences when I first picked up my pen. And I respect him as a man first outside of business. We have a real relationship with each other. We really kick it on an intimate level. So, you know, it was divine that it happened more than anything.

How do you feel about Detroit's rap game now? I feel like Detroit is like one record away from really being the next city that takes off. Next? Are you crazy? Yo, Memphis and Detroit been running shit for the past two years. Next? Are you crazy? I've been, yo, Memphis is Detroit been running shit for the past two years. Next? Memphis is,

I would say this, Detroit street all day long, but Memphis is street and radio when it comes to it. We getting there though, you know what I'm saying? That's what I said,

you're one record away from that gone because there's so many Detroit artists that's popping, that's doing it, that's doing it. We're missing the mentorship though.

We are missing the executive side because most of the people who became executives you know paul rosenberg he's here i came here or you went to la right so but who memphis got on the executive side got it got it i guess got he signed all the artists he signed whether it's black whether it's uh moneybag yo whether it's he signed an artist like i that's the one thing i don't see in detroit you know i think so many artists in detroit you know i think memphis had

that detroit might just be getting the independence of it all. Because that goes back to 3-6. Yeah. You know what I mean? Like, being your own label, having your own studios, pushing the artists you want to push. Yeah, we didn't have a lot of people coming back home. You know what I'm saying? When Mario Winez left, you know, Mario kind of left.

You know, when I left, I left. Like, a lot of dudes from Memphis, 3-6. Carlos, 6 July Brody, who did a lot of dudes from memphis three six carlos six july brody who did a lot of puff like they went home so they was able to get what we're talking about right they were able to get i say as an executive side but you know royce said his mentor and we was just saying i use the word um artist development when we talk about ours because i think it's gone beyond telling somebody how to write a song. Artist development for me has been like, how do you get a hit record and come on here and not go home and die?

How do you learn how to have the right conversations? How do you get a million dollars and not go buy rims or have everybody else, your lawyer, account, everybody take their money, but there's no understanding of how wealth is created. So for us, artist development is, and I think what Roy said is mentoring, it's about really just giving them the tools and the resources and the strategies

because a hit record can come and go. One hit record can set you up for life or you can have 10 albums and be broke. Just teaching them the importance of solidarity. I mean, that's what we always missed in Detroit. Obviously, it's a little better now than it's been, but this is by far, by far far the best place Detroit has been in. Absolutely.

Culturally. You know what I'm saying? Like, we got so many artists popping right now. But we are missing, like what you said, we don't have that executive like Gotti coming and signing up everybody, which would help to kind of bring us all a little bit closer you know everybody's kind of like just all over the place. Coach K and P trying to sign every Detroit artist. They not the only ones though. Ghazi trying to sign everybody. Everybody's looking at Detroit right now.

Last week I went through I drove to Detroit I think like seven eight artists I went to each one of their hoods just to see how different it is but just the fact that they get so much love in each one of their hoods and all that music is playing was like damn they just i just want to see it go like go go you know like like atlanta was like i think we're there though yeah i think yeah and that's what i was about to say like just to answer your question like before the industry came to the city because i'm a part of that generation, the baby face rays and all of them. We are our own celebrity in our neighborhoods and in the city. So outside of the culture, like we'll get a million,

2 million views alone just in Detroit before it catches and sparks outside of our culture. So like, I feel like that's the biggest thing with us and, you know, chiming in on what y'all said. It is pivotal that we have that connection between the OGs and my generation because now being in an age of social media we in a space to where it's like with us having a

disconnect oh i don't need you because now i have money like you have money i have the resources like you have it but we don't have the wisdom and the understanding of the business side and they hustlers yeah they hustlers too so they their concern is we coming to get the money they don't necessarily give a fuck about hit records you know i'm saying so i think that's that's why you don't see you know songs even structured like they're even trying to be on like radio like first day out yeah just incredible incredible record so it's like i I see where they're coming from. Like, that Vezzo and Kodak record is ridiculous. Oh, Vezzo records.

He's got a bunch of records, too. I wonder if, because I think about, like, Shady Aftermath, right? Like, was that the right machine? But at the time, it just wasn't a plethora of artists like it is now? Because Em did what he could, right? Like, he had D12. He had Ovi. Em did an amazing job.

Put the light on trick. Yeah, even when he wasn't trying. You know what I mean? Like, just what he did opened up so many doors. Back then, Detroit was broken down like this. You had the street rapper side, which was the street niggas who rap. Kind of like what you see now. And then you had the hip-hop nigga side that was us

the backpackers quote-unquote from the hip-hop shop so myself proof everybody on our side got a deal every single person from that era on the hip-hop side got a deal it was just our time you know i'm saying and um i'm gonna take it even further like the street lords cheddar boys rock bottom all of these crews that were making the street records back then who were kind of in competition with us they were making straight up club classic street classic records that still play today that they were the kind of records that y'all are talking about that the young is now are missing the young is now are kind of like a derivative of these guys street laura wine blade god rest his soul and um it just wasn't the game hadn't caught up to what they were doing yet

now the game has caught up to that and the door is wide open for the vezzos the side of babies and they kicked that shit, and they kicked that shit through, and they came stomping through. Babyface, yeah. But I wish one of them would make, I wish one of them would make one of them, because if they do that, that's it. It's over. Yeah.

Now, I see you have a lot of people coming to Heaven Studio. Chris Webber was just there. I think J. Cole was there once. I think I saw your picture and your Cole. So what's going on? Is it records being made? Like, what so what's going on is it records being made like what is it yeah it's records being made

C. Webb actually came the other day he played some beats but we got some other stuff that we're doing can I talk about that in the marijuana business we partnered up

and we're doing some stuff cannabis marijuana is a derogatory term is it he just got he probably loves cannabis cannabis sounds better

they say well you know what it is can I get cancelled right no no no but somebody told me who was in the cannabis business that marijuana was a it was a term

that white people used to use for weed coming out of Mexico and so it's actually a bad connotation they look down on it so your attorney says

use the term yeah cannabis okay okay cool I say weed weed is probably better than marijuana And so it's actually a bad connotation. They look down on us. That's why they say use the term cannabis. Yeah, cannabis. Okay, okay, cool. I say weed. Weed is probably better than marijuana. Yeah, just weed. Okay, I'm going to say cannabis. I'm going to go with my attorney on this one.

So yeah, we partnered up on some stuff in the cannabis business. We're doing some NFT stuff together. And we're going to make some music together. And then he has a bunch of dope ideas on stuff that we can do and it was just a long time coming we met we met like a while back but we never really got a chance to connect like that so uh we spent some time with each other and just seeing how like-minded we were and um i'm into that right now you know just being around like-minded people real niggas you knowiggas, building relationships and just figuring out ways

that we can use our viability that we bring to the table, put it together and figure out what we can do and just be real creative with what that could be. They got to legalize it too, though, first in Detroit. That's wild to me. They got to legalize it in Detroit?

You mean federally? In Detroit, yeah. I thought it was legal in Michigan. Only in Detroit. I thought it was legal in Michigan. Only in Detroit. I thought it was recreational. It's not recreational in Detroit. Oh, okay, okay. But it's crazy because you can go five minutes out into the white area and it's legal. Recreational, which makes no sense.

Which makes no sense. You know, we don't give Chris Webber and Jalen Rose and Jimmy King and Ray Jackson and Juwan Howard, the credit they deserve, right? Because I'm not from Detroit, but I look at those brothers. They were so unapologetically black at a time when we didn't see that type of unapologetic blackness on TV, embracing hip-hop the way that they did. But as a Detroit native, how did that impact you? Man, it impacted me in a way that me and C-Web sat and talked about that very thing you just said for five hours. Wow.

Them niggas, they shifted the paradigm, man. They changed the way that players wanted to dress. Like, yo, they were the first ones with the long baggy shorts, the big baggy jerseys with the t-shirt under it with the sleeves cut off. It was their idea to go with the h Harachis that did not match the uniform. It was their idea for everybody to cut their hair bald. Wow. And they was freshmen. All of them freshmen.

All of them freshmen starting running shit. You know what I'm saying? It's just. They paved the way for the AIs. They paved the way. They paved it. And, you know, we need more of that, man. We need more people, for lack of a better phrase, obviously,

but to kind of, like, give the system a little bit of pushback. You know what I mean? Like, it's just necessary, man. It's necessary. Now, I got to ask, slow the house. Are y'all back on good terms? I don't know what month this was, what week it was. I happened to turn on Instagram, and I seen y'all arguing on Instagram.

You were the middleman. You were the one trying to calm things down, and they were going back and forth, and I just turned around. I was like, I can't see these brothers arguing anymore. So y'all back good? I mean, I can never say we bad. You know what I mean? Listen, man, we spent 10 years together, man.

Damn near every day building something special. You know what I mean? And it just ended in a very unfortunate way. But I can't just sum it up like that, man. I can't. I'm sorry, man. It's my doorbell at the studio. I'm sorry.

Probably just DoorDash. So I can't just sum it up like, nah, we ain't good. You know what I mean? Nah, we haven't spoken. You know, two of the guys, Crooked and Joel, made some decisions that, you know, we can't really come back from in terms of business. And that's really it.

The decision was they decided to do their own group or do their own thing together? Nah, they, um, I'm group or do their own thing together. Nah, they um I'm give you the short version Me and Joe sitting around minding our own business and we look up and they they release they start rolling out a project The project was called the rise and fall of slaughterhouse They put this project out and the project is announced into the world that the group is over. And this is why we had already went through a long negotiation with Shady to pull the group off the label so we can do things moving forward, so we can make another album,

so we can relaunch merchandise, so we can relaunch everything Slaughterhouse. And for whatever reason... So y'all were going to do another album. Even Joe was going to get in the studio and do another album at that time. Absolutely. Okay. Absolutely. So the whole album was basically about how Joe,

knock on rap, Cricket came to the table with a deal idea. We didn't want to do it, so they over it. They're done. The group is done. And I just like that that was a hell of a thing to blindside me with as a friend and as a business partner because number one if the group is going to be over that's fine things and things and all the time let me know that send me a text shoot me a text let me know you done or if you're going to

go public and say that you're done with the group, that's cool. But don't just go public and just announce that the group is done. You know what I mean? Like that's, I expected more out of Crooked. I didn't have as much of a problem with Joel because, you know, me and Joel always been cool. But me and Crooked, I thought we were better than that. You know what I mean? So it was more of a personal's more of a personal more of a personal thing you know i mean but i i can't i can't bring myself

to a point where i can get on a public platform and bash any of them though you know i mean i got too much love for him and i think the amount of love i got for him is what made me so disappointed you know i mean so it go back to what i was saying earlier just about you know airing out how I feel on public platforms bun told me like when we first when slaughterhouse first became a thing he called me and said anytime I ever aired out anything publicly if it involved family I always regretted it and that always resonated with me and I've done I've went since that conversation I've went and done that probably 50 times and I regretted it every time. So, you know, so that's one of the things that I'm working on.

So to answer your question, no. No more Slaughterhouse, but still nothing but love, always. I respect everything that you said. And I feel like that should have been an easy conversation for Crooked and Joel, because Joel don't want to rap. So if he don't want to rap, there's no Slaughterhouse. So why shouldn't they be able to go do their own project? Well, it's easy to paint Joel as that

because of how many things he said publicly. But when we're having conference calls and he's a part of every call and we're having creative conversations about what we're going to do next, you know what I mean? He was going to get back in there and do it.

Joe's thing is I'm retired. I'm in the content space, but I'm really into ownership right now. I will rap in Slaughterhouse if we own it, but we got to own it. It can't be on Shady, and if we decide to take it to another label, I would be particular on how we would do that deal because we already built it. This is something we built already. As y'all should.

And I agree that it shouldn't just sit on Shady. It shouldn't just sit on Shady. If Shady doesn't want to release it, then this is respectfully because I love them too, always. It shouldn't just sit on Shady. We built it. It's ours. So when we got it off of shady man i was like that was like

fulfilling it was like it was bittersweet it was bittersweet because it was like damn i had a vision for doing this with my my good friend you know i mean but it didn't work out for obvious reasons so getting it off of there and still now having it back in our possession and having something that we built the first tangible thing that we built in this business organically you know multi-million dollar brand that we built from the ground when everybody told us no y'all been around the block y'all can't oh man y'all never be able to do festivals y'all don't have songs y'all don't have hooks you know i'm saying like and we kind of like defied all of those odds you know i'm saying so to get to that point with joe being way more knowledgeable obviously myself being way more knowledgeable and then just having it in our

possession and for them to just jump the gun like that because of a deal that he put on the table which he that's never been his role in the group but i mean anything that anybody put on the table i would consider it but i think that we should be allowed to ask questions, right? Like if I put something on the table for us and you ask questions, or even if you say no, does that mean everything is over? Or does that mean we go to another label? We hadn't talked to any other labels yet. We hadn't even talked to a label in that situation.

We talked to a guy who was talking to a label. We never had nothing on paper. There never was a proposal in black and white for us to a guy who was talking to a label we never had nothing on paper there never was a proposal in black and white for us to look at it was just a conversation he didn't like how the conversation went so he decided fuck them we're gonna go do this all right you're playing devil's advocate right do you feel like you know white devil's advocate we know joe is doing well with his content, creating everything that he's doing. You're obviously doing well.

Could it be a situation where maybe Joel and Crooked weren't doing as well because the group was so much financial for them? I mean, y'all were going on tours. I don't think y'all ever really got the money that y'all deserve yet. Do you feel like maybe that was their way of saying, look, I got to feed my family at the end of the day possibly possibly and I mean listen that makes it even worse because it's like bro if that's what it was we who you supposed to have been talking to hmm you know I'm saying like who wouldn't

understand who understand that more than your brother me right the guy who's been up and down up and down just like anybody else in this business you know i'm saying like i i understand the ups and downs so if it's if this is a down time and this is like something because there's been plenty of things that i've done that i've done because i wanted one of my rules in the group was i don't like i'm not doing any three-man shows. Any three-man shows. All members got to be there. All members got to be there.

There's been plenty of times Joe couldn't make it where they were like, yo, listen, we need you to come do this because we need the money. And I did it. You know what I mean? So what is that? And it was just a bad deal. Royce is going to be political. It was a bad deal.

They positioned a bad deal. And they used a lot of stuff that was happening within the group. It was just a bad deal. It wasn't the right person. There were times when Joe was ready to rap and we couldn't get Crook to rap. They don't talk about that shit. You know what I'm saying? Why couldn't Crook rap? Crook always ready to rap.

Crook didn't want to. No, see? See what I'm saying? Why couldn't Crook rap? Crook always ready to rap. Crook didn't want to. No, see? See what I'm saying? See, people got the wrong impression about people. And that's why Joe is easy to paint as a certain thing. He's an easy target. Yeah, and Crook and Joel look like the blue collar guys.

Correct. You know, the guys who, you know, willing to roll their sleeves up. Fuck all that. Crook, he had his ways about him the whole time. He always had some issue with Joe that he wouldn't address. It was always in the air. I can't quite put my finger on what that was, but this nigga done made Joe diss records. He done did all types of shit.

You know what I'm saying? People just didn't hear him. You know what I mean? But he did it. He did it, and there was a time where he was like, nah, I ain't rapping you know i mean nobody fucking went out and put out an album about him not rapping and saying that the group is over with it's just it's messy and then on the business side it's like yo you

you're not you're not fucking up our shit you fucking up your shit too you know i mean we all taking the same l together and then you know like during the whole process you painted me at you painted me in a certain light you had to paint me in a certain light in order to be able to do that and i'm just trying to figure out what what did i do to deserve that yeah and i mean there's no reconciling because I heard people getting invited to the Frank stand on those calls. Right? I never did. Didn't somebody say SMD on one of those calls?

Oh, no, no. I was like, ugh. Yeah, Joe said that project at SMD. He said that project. Yeah, that project could suck my dick. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Well, maybe it was the project. When I started seeing it online, I was like, you know what, enough is enough.

That was just some Joe shit to say, though. You know what I'm saying? Like, it wasn't like, Joel know how Joe talk. You know what I mean? So that wasn't, that wasn't really nothing. That was one of them things where you can take it, you can take it super, super offensive and personal if you choose to.

But Joel said a lot of, he said a lot of weird stuff, too. You know what I mean? Everybody played their part. I'm holding myself accountable for the part that I played, too. You know what I mean? What part did you play, you think? I mean, you're making it hard for me because I don't do much wrong, Charlie.

I just, I think I did that thing that I was talking about. I went on Joe's show, and I was frustrated, and my reaction to what they did caused Crook to react to how I reacted. You know what I mean? And then what he said, what he said made me block him. It made me block him on social media and made me block his number because i i don't i love him too much and i don't want nothing else to get said that's gonna that's gonna turn me up that's gonna put me up there you know i mean so and i don't feel like there's

anything that should go on in the rap space that should even bring you to that you know i mean but we all we all garden something you know i mean like we all garden rather it's our egos we come from environments where the measuring stick the cool is some souped up tough guy shit you know i mean like everybody's like watch how you talk to me respect me but everybody ain't being so respectful you know so talk to me about the lupe fiasco thing because i still don't understand where that went left like y, y'all were doing a podcast together. The next thing you know, it's this record's flying. I really don't know.

Like, I've tried to follow it, but I really don't know how that turns into that. And at first, I thought it was friendly. Just on some like, I'm super lyrical.

Lupe is super lyrical. Let's, you know, do some records together. It was friendly. It was friendly. It was friendly, but the same thing happened.

There was a conversation on livestream on a platform, public platform for everybody to see. And Lupe, he made an assumption. He assumed because Murder Mook and Loaded Lux, one of those guys posed the question, who will win in a battle between me and Lou? Now, URL had already reached out to us and asked us would we battle each other on the platform.

We said no. We talked about it. We agreed that that's not even something that we would be interested in. I never even looked at Lou as like a, that he could be an op of mine. You know what I mean? Like, I don't feel like that he's that an op of mine. You know what I mean? Like, I don't feel like he's that kind of rapper. I think he's an amazing rapper.

Correct. But I don't think he's that kind of rapper. I don't think of guys like him when I think of, if I thought, damn, if I was to battle somebody, who would it be? You know, I would think about people like Psy High. Yeah, yeah, that makes sense. People who are more aggressive and, you know,

like attacking MCs kind of style. You know, Lou was more of like a cerebral, top-tier, amazing lyricist. So we said no. So when Loaded Lux and Moot posed that question, they called Lou and started just hyping him up, saying, you know, like, I think Lux was like, I think you will win, you know. So whatever they talked about, Lou assumed that I was the person who initiated that conversation. So he thought that I spoke to him and we agreed that we wouldn't battle. And then I turned around and went and sparked up a conversation trying to bait him back into going on that stage to battle me. And he didn't like that.

But the way he did it was just it just wasn't cool well he just didn't call you and ask you that's what the fuck i'm saying so he came so so me and young guru we on live stream and then he's in the comments saying bring him in so i bring him in i was meet him young guru i think mook was on there too and we bring him on this nigga ain't got no shirt on. You know what I'm saying? Like, he walking around with no shirt on. What's that got to do with it?

You're ready to fight. We got everything to do with it, man. Smoke. We want to smoke. Because it's like, my nigga, I came up with a dad who used to cuss me out not wearing no shirt all the time. You know what I'm saying? That's a trigger of yours.

That's a trigger. Yeah, yeah, yeah. It's a sign of aggression. So he like, I seen it immediately. He was turnt up already as soon as he brought him on yeah nigga you gonna keep bringing this shit up and making a fool out of yourself get yourself embarrassed nigga and it was just like i said lou put your shirt back on put your shirt back on i said and calm down not is it now we doing a podcast together, and there were two other times that he kind of turnt up on me. And he'd get passionate, and he'd just start kind of raising his voice.

And, you know, Lou, building a relationship with him was kind of like a case study, man. For me, it's like the challenge to me is building a relationship with somebody coexisting with somebody who you know you you may have conflicting ideologies with um it's somebody who you may not necessarily have a relationship with if it weren't for the music space which i think is i'm intrigued by that right because i think he's such an incredible lyricist and i think he's so different from me but i think that through through music we can we can we can find we can find the neutral things that we agree on and we can also learn to agree to disagree on the things we don't agree on without having to try to change how each other feels right and you know like to me that's

the ultimate way of building solidarity because i think black people with us black people in general we feel like the shit we got to be a monolith we don't you know i mean like we all pretty much have the same goal right the everybody's agenda starts to change a little bit and everybody's pathway to get into that end goal it's different but everybody thinks that their pathway is so superior to somebody else's right so um and i think music is the only thing that can kind of neutralize that so um and i like lou i still do i like him as a person i think he's real cool i disagree with a lot of shit that he has to say but so um he started yelling he yelled a couple times at me on the podcast and i just told him it's not a problem it's okay for you to like cross my boundary if you don't know my boundary as long

as when i let you know about it you know you can make that correction moving on and we fine so it never was like an argument or nothing but it was just like yo the yelling is the only thing that i'm not i can't really do i don't do the yelling i don't yell at nobody in my life and nobody yells at me you know i mean so that's just not something i'm willing to you know deal with some people are different some people are cool with that some people don't like when you lie some people don't like yo don't yell at me you know i'm saying so this was the third time he did that so when he came onto the thing he yelling and i'm telling him lou calm down and i already knew i was like yo you think i think you think that i initiated this conversation i had nothing to do with this

conversation this is something that they just did on they came up with on their own and i was like calm down before you say some stupid shit and he was you know when somebody already turned up it's hard for them to calm down so he kept yelling and yelling and yelling and yelling and then i called him a bitch and that was the that was the thing that i did that i gotta hold myself accountable you regret it do i regret it i don't know if i i don't know if regret is the right word but i did that i gotta hold myself accountable you regret it do i regret it i don't know if i i don't know if regret is the right word but i don't i'm not happy about saying that because i don't think he's a bitch you know i mean i don't think we we should speak to each other

that way of course you know but i do understand why i said i understand why i said it because it was just a reaction it was a point that I got pushed to. And I feel like I gave a lot of warning points. I gave a lot of lead into it. And that's me knowing myself. If it gets to a point where I start getting upset, I'm going to just react. And then I'm going to go outside of my body. I'm going to vibrate lower.

I'm going to start doing shit that's not really reflective of the way I want to evolve. And I don't, I don't, I don't, I don't feel good about it. I don't feel good about it, but I don't, I don't, I think I would regret it if, um, if he had apologized, then I definitely would apologize and then it would go down as a regret. But as of right now, you know, like the way that everything kind of got summed up, it is what it is, but I don't feel good about it. So you haven't spoke since? No.

Damn, and it turned into records. Like, you're all actually going at each other. With a record, when I did mine, it was still in the friendly competition category. But after I did mine, that's when he unfollowed me that's when he stopped the podcast so to me that's an official fallout yeah yeah so so to me that's no longer a battle that's just a fallout and i now i regret the song that's why i never responded to what he did who you think won the battle just musically anybody can he can have it he can have it i don't i don't you know it wasn't i'm not first of all i don't think anybody i don't think anybody cares

about um it never was about who rap who can rap better who can win in a battle it never really was about that man it was just we sparked up conversation to have friendly conversation with a whole lot of different guys that speak to a whole lot of different audiences all together so people can follow one clear precise narrative you know i mean like there was a point in my career where it was important to me to be the best lyricist. I've grown from that. You know what I mean? So, I mean, I think especially when you're talking about somebody like Lou, who's so much different from how I am,

it's just going to come down to preference. You know what I mean? I don't think what he did is him at his best, in my opinion, not from me as a fan. It's him at his best. It would just sound like a bunch of angry a bunch of angry scathing that he said because he was mad i heard that about both of y'all though i heard that about both the projects that both of the songs that y'all dropped no it wasn't no no venom in my no i'm not talking about the people just like oh this

isn't either one of their best but i think it's because of the expectation because y'all are super lyricists right so you thinking lup and Royce going at each other. You're about to hear some shit you ain't never heard before. No, it wasn't that kind of atmosphere. It wasn't planned for us to just go at each other like that. Everything just kind of happened spur of the moment. I blame the pandemic, too. And where did Mickey Facts come in?

Mickey Facts, he just kind of inserted moment. I blame the pandemic too. And where did Mickey Facts come in? Mickey Facts just kind of inserted himself. He just kind of inserted himself into it. I think he just looked at it as an opportunity to get in the mix. Because he was one of the people that was involved in the combo that we were having.

So he was boosting it up? Like who would win between you and He was one of the people kind of talking about it. But after the me and Lou thing happened, I think he looked at it as an opportunity to jump in there because he jumped on the live stream with me and he didn't like the fact that... He was trying to get me to call him a top-tier lyricist. And I was just telling him I don't view him as that,

but I do think he's dope. And he thought, since we were in front of an audience, that I was trying to play him. And then Joe came in, and Joe was kind of talking at him. You know what I'm saying? So he turned around, and he did his diss record and shit. And I think it was him and Lou were kind of like in cahoots with it because Lou was kind of like, right now you do that that mean i now i don't have to i don't have to respond

back and say nothing you know i mean i don't have to keep going back and forth because i think i think part of part of lou felt like that i had planned this shit the whole time you know i mean so he thought that i was gonna keep going so that was one of the reasons why i made sure that i didn't respond because i didn't want it to even seem like that i was going to keep going. So that was one of the reasons why I made sure that I didn't respond because I didn't want it to even seem like that I had even planned that. You know what I'm saying? Like, I don't want to put Lou in a position to where he's viewed a certain way.

You know what I mean? Like, that ain't what I'm here to do. You know what I mean? So I just kind of had to let it go. The Mickey Facts thing, people were like, yo, you got to respond, you got to respond. And that's exactly why I didn't respond. Don't fucking tell me I got to respond to let it go. The Mickey Facts thing, people were like, yo, you got to respond. You got to respond. And that's exactly why I didn't respond.

Don't fucking tell me I got to respond. I do shit. You know what I'm saying? That's another thing, man. The fans or the followers or whatever you want to call them, they think we work for them. You know? They think we like, you know, step and fetch it and shit.

Like, we just rap when they say we should because they want to be entertained and yo that's cool too we can rap competitively to entertain if that's what we agree to do as long as we keep it respectful but if it turns into a fallout and it turns into real personal feelings i'm not interested in that man i i had enough of that in my career hip-hop is exhausting yeah and the male ego is so fragile like all of this stuff sound like it's just one phone conversation could like dead so much of this I agree well where will we learn that communication from therapy rap name a rapper in therapy yeah they too many more now you know it's funny? It's more the younger generation

that's embracing it than the older people who probably really need to process some of that unhealed trauma. You know what? Lupe, he's so smart. He's so smart.

He's too smart for his own good. You know what I'm saying? That nigga don't think he need therapy. He need therapy. He definitely need therapy. But I mean, you know, dog, I got mad love for Lou

well let's get back to it the heaven experience is out this week you want to play what a time do I what you want to play what a time

yeah let's play what a time well we appreciate you brothers for joining us thank you for having me featuring Courtney Bell always good to see y'all it's the breakfast club

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As a kid, I really do remember having these dreams and visions, but you just don't know what is going to come for you. Alicia shares her wisdom on growth, gratitude, and the power of love. I forgive myself. It's okay. Have grace with yourself. You're trying your best and you're going to figure out the rhythm of this thing. Alicia Keys, like you've never heard her before. Listen to On Purpose with Jay Shetty on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Hey guys, I'm Kate Max. You might know me from my popular online series, The Running Interview Show, where I run with celebrities, athletes,

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