The Breakfast Club - Straight Shot No Chaser: Discussing OJ Simpson w- Dr. Steve Perry

Episode Date: April 27, 2024

The Black Effect Presents... Straight Shot No Chaser with Tezlyn FIgaro! On this episode of Straight Shot No Chaser, we're diving deep into a pivotal moment in history with a special guest, Dr. Steve Perry. Join us as we reflect on the legacy of OJ Simpson, from his glory days on the field to the infamous trial that captivated the nation. Tezlyn shares her personal connection to the case and explores how perceptions have shifted over time. See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

Y'all, I come from the school of Tupac. I'm a robber. You don't want to watch? Ask me. I'm not your average Negro. Hold up. Taz, I want to ask you a question real quick. Let's just keep it real straight shot with No Chaser. I'm going to get a little bit rough. We don't stand for hell. Who we? I'm here for those who really believe in the American process. All of us.

Straight shot, No Chaser. With your girl, Tazlyn Figaro, on the Black Effect Podcast Network. Hey everybody, this is Teslin Figaro. Tap in with Teslin Figaro, a new show. I think we're on episode 8, I believe. Very, very excited about this new platform. Shout out to all of the team that is making this work. New platform called Two Way.

Shout out to the homie, Chris Gotti. Today, we're going to do something a little bit different. I am also streaming live on my Instagram. Shout out to my Instagram family. I see you guys popping up. I see my YouTube family popping up guest with me, Dr. Steve Perry. And I want to involve those that follow my work and his work because we do, I guess you would call it cross pollinate in many of the same circles. And so I thought this was a really, really good conversation. Instagram family, as you know, I am always looking at your comments. So I will be looking down and on the two-way app, let me give a moment to explain what that will be. It will be an app, very similar to what we do on Instagram. So you guys know my comment caucus. I

see you in the building. I see you, Cliff. He said he is the chairman of the Comic Caucus. And so I'd like to everybody knows on Instagram that I love to bring you in my conversations. You are literally my third host. So as you watch this, I am going to direct you to watch this on two way on YouTube. They are string streaming right now on the two-way app on YouTube. My apologies. So if you just Google and put in two-way and put in, just put in two-way Tesla Figaro, that app should, that YouTube channel should pull up and then you can watch us live. But fear not, this link will be available if you want to actually see the video. So if you're on Instagram saying, hey, I can't see the video, let them know, comment, caucus chair, I see you in the building, let people know that they will be able to watch this video. We're going to have this up this evening, no later than in the morning. So let's get straight

to it. So, wow, I was going to come on and talk about something else today. I wanted to talk about abortion. I wanted to talk about what's happening in politics. But then we learned of the passing of OJ Simpson. I immediately got on the phone to talk to Dr. Steve Perry because this was such an important conversation. And those of you know, I normally don't just follow whatever's trending, you know, whatever conversation is trending. I don't just jump on every conversation for the sake of clicks and views. But this is so important because it really is was a milestone in my life. It would it is this particular case in 1995 when I was in high school really made me want to get into the legal profession. It also showed me what commentating was all about on court TV.

You know, I learned that, wow, you can be an attorney and have an opinion without getting in trouble and TV all at the same time. My mother was the news director's assistant. And we would come home and she would record this case every day on VHS. For those who don't know what that is, it is actually a tape that you used to have to put in a machine that would record. And so this was just a pivotal, pivotal time in my life. There's probably not a motion, an objection and piece of evidence that I don't know about this case. I literally watch it even to this day. It is something that just from a legal standpoint has always been fascinating. Man set aside of O.J. Simpson, but just the case set aside.

I normally, Dr. Perry, I don't even like getting in these conversations with people because I am so in deep with this case that I always feel as if, you know, I'm speaking to somebody that may not have watched it the way that I did. And I always feel that it's an uneven conversation. But you are the man for the conversation for today. We don't have a lot of time. So there's only a few things that we can unpack with this case. First, let me introduce to you Dr. Steve Perry, an educator, bestselling author, founder of founder and head of schools at Capital Preparatory Schools. Arthur of Man Up. Nobody's coming to save us. And push has come to shove. You've seen him on many platforms much larger than mine. So I'm humbled and honored. He's coming to save us and push has come to shove. You've seen him on many platforms much

larger than mine. So I'm humbled and honored. He's shaking his head. I'm humbled and honored to have him join the little old me, Tesla figure on tap with his head. Hello, Dr. Perry. Since I am so humbled to be part of your great big platform, big because what you do is tackle topics that other folks are either afraid to or incapable of offering up the nuances to engage in. So this is a conversation I could not be happier to have. It's a blessing to have you because, you know, we unpack things all the time, you know, and the listeners don't know this, but we unpack all the time. The show between the shows.

The show between the show. The show between the show. So they're really just going to be listening to a conversation that we would just typically have. Cameras off and just, you know, just you and I just really talking about it. So we heard O.J. Simpson passed away from cancer at the age of 76. A lot of people weren't aware, you know, that he was suffering with cancer. A lot of people do keep that private. My mother did for sure. It's not something that people broadcast.

I don't know how many people knew it or not. Of course, there's many conspiracy theories that are out today. Of course, there always is. There's always going to be somebody on the internet that comes up with their own theory. But I really wanted to jump in due to limited time and thank you for taking out your time today. There's so many different layers to this. So many different, we can peel this onion all day. I really want to go back to 1995. And now I know there's going to be people who will say, focus on the good things, focus on the NFL and 11 seasons, focus on the Heisman Trophy, focus on how he was regarded as one of the greatest running backs of all time. I know people say, don't talk about the negative, don't talk about all of the negative things. The reality of it is when you are a public person, all of those things will be talked about. Even if you're not a public person, you go just to myself in high school, because when he was in his prime,

I wasn't old enough to know who he was or people may be familiar. He went on good times and did hurts and all that, but I was a little girl. I didn't know that. So my really first introduction of learning who OJ Simpson was and learning about him and everything about him was through the OJ

Simpson trial because I was young. So I learned everything. And one of the things in the trial is presenting that person's life from beginning to end. So I want to go back to that time where we were as a culture and where we are now. And if we can can if you will compare the two because a lot has changed over 1995 versus now at that time and then i'm going to flip it to you at that time there was a black america many said that he did not do it there was also black america that said if he did let's charge it to the game what i have noticed is in this generation, many have basically said, I remember there was a time where you just could not get into a discussion on OJ since when I say there's no way he didn't do it, didn't do it. But now as more evidence has come out, now that the book he wrote,

If I Did It has come out, now that even there was a meme today that they were sharing where he was mocking, stabbing somebody. Now that more and more has come out, there is a sector of Black America that now is saying, you know what? It might be some truth to it, but we're still going to charge it to the game. So take us back, Dr. Perry, from your perspective. Where were we in 1995? Let's take a quick step back. Patrick Mahomes is arguably the most celebrated football player of his generation and even he wasn't isn't what oj simpson was as an athlete but those of us who grew up in the 70s we watched the jews do the impossible 2 000 in a season, things that were not even seen. And he was universally regarded as the greatest of all time.

So for many of us who grew up during the 70s, he was, for us, our foray into greatness. He, Muhammad Ali, were seen as not just athletes, but individuals who transcended time. Jim Brown, along those same lines. These were men who are black, but who transcended their role as an athlete and even made their way into what we now know as mainstream. During that that time we didn't have access to somebody's every move we could only live through the lore that was created through the media at that time that many of us had three networks abc nbc and cbs and there were not

24 hours worth of news so we had limited access access. And so when we got access, it was through the way in which that person was portrayed. And in his case, he was portrayed as a hero. He was portrayed as an absolute hero. Put that on the shelf for a moment. 1991, just a couple years before, we still did not have much access to the world at large and there were rumors and laws and experiences of African Americans in this country of being mistreated by the police, mistreated by the justice system.

And in 1991, we saw for the first time in maps, in American history, a black man in the Rodney King being beaten to what appeared to be within inches of his death. And now you mean just to put a pin right there, meaning we saw what we already knew. I just want to put because many of us saw it, but it confirmed what we know. Correct. But as a country. Yes. For the first time, we all saw it. I remember being in college during that time and I remember white kids coming to my dorm room

and they were stunned. Like, oh my God, can you believe it? Hell yeah, I can believe it. Only thing I can't believe is that we finally caught it on video. We finally caught it. And so we, as many of us African-Americans at the time, especially young black people as I was, we just knew, got these mugs this time.

We finally got their ass this time. Watch and see what's going to happen. Watch and see what's going to happen. Now watch and see what all these people in California are going to do. Watch and see where you have the video of this man being beaten to within inches of his life. All of them get off. Every. All of them get off. Every single one of them get off. The streets turn into riots.

People revolt. They say what they got to say. And then shortly on the heels of that, our hero is accused of killing a white man. That's the context of the beginning of the OJ Simpson trial. It's not probable that a man of his station in life would do something like that. Many of us thought, who would even think of hurting their wife? Who would lose all that OJ Simpson had? Who would do it?

So that's how we start this conversation. The conversation starts with what is today's Patrick Mahomes, what is the 90s Michael Jordan, a man who transcended his sport, was an international phenomenon, being accused of the most gruesome act of all, killing the wife that he had and the mother of his children in cold, gruesome blood. That's the foundation of the concept. Now, the next layer to that would be I want you to take us back to the obvious on it wasn't just a wife and a mother. It was a white one now again at that time i was in high school and i was not the lens that i was looking through well let me be clear my mother because she was a uh news director's assistant because she was in the media my first professional meeting was nabj national Journalists. My mother was very mindful of, rest in peace to my mother, also passed away of cancer, but very mindful of images,

very mindful of, for example, I tell people all the time, I couldn't watch Sanford and Son. She didn't like the fact that a black man was calling his son a dummy, what many people find that show hilarious, great comedy. She didn't like it. I could not watch A Good Times. Created by a white man that's right that's right that's right I could not watch good times we know that we're going to be unpacking that because we know that's about to come out on Netflix and that has sparked a lot of conversation I'm sure you and I unpack that but what's so interesting just I just want to put a pin with that even with good times now how they're're seeing it in almost a parody form.

We don't know yet what that looks like. That's how my mother saw it then. So when I see people applaud it and say, oh, man, Good Times, one of the best shows ever in history. Yes, it was a black father. Yes, it was a black mother. All of those things. But my mother had the same problem with it that the actors had with it behind the scenes. So although I did sneak to watch those shows, she was very much against it, but she was very much in support of me watching George Jefferson. She was proud of the fact that he was an entrepreneur. She was proud of moving on up. She wanted to know, well, when are they going to ever get out the ghetto on good times? When is it

ever going to be, you know, when do we ever get to the other side? I'm saying all that to say, Dr. Perry, because I'm trying to set the scene going back to man i wish my mother was alive so we could talk about this many reasons i wish she was alive but this is one but i'm trying to i'm trying to paint a picture for the listeners on what that meant when i would come in from school and we would pop in the tape that had a yellow piece of i mean so you would be a chance to have either a white or yellow sticker on it. I can see it so clear. And we would watch this and unpack this because my mother wanted me to know what was happening in the media, what we're seeing in the media, which we see with the infamous Johnny Cochran. It was surreal to me to be standing next to the Carl Douglas just a couple of years ago at a press at one of his press conferences with Attorney.

Everybody may not know Carl Douglas is. Yes. So douglas for those who are not familiar with this case carl douglas was one of the members of the dream team the infamous dream team uh that johnny cochran put together well that we can say that he i don't want to say put together because oj selected his his team but johnnychran ended up leading that team after the Kardashian, his friend at the time, was not leading the team in the direction that OJ believed it needed to go in. And Johnny Cochran came in and changed it.

And guys, if you're not familiar with OJ Simpson case, it is so many different movies, documentaries, things. But I encourage you to watch them all and pal it together and then go on YouTube and watch the actual trial. They still have the trial available every single day of YouTube. So Carl Douglas was a member of the Dream Team. So for me to be standing next to him two years ago in one of his cases, it was just surreal. I'm taking you back to that, Dr. Perry, because when I was watching this eating through the lens of a teenager, I was looking at all of those different things.

And what we knew, what I knew about interracial relationships at the time is not what I know now. So it was not just, but my mother put me up on game, that it was not just about a man killing his wife, but it was a white wife. And so then the conversation started happening. People are even saying in the comments now, if he killed his black wife, it would have never been a thing. You said you were in grad school at the time. What was the conversation about it being a white woman at the time? And why did that make a difference? And why did we give a pass? Because let's be honest about it. OJ Simpson, to many, abandoned his community. Johnny Cochran had to go in and blackify without a new word that I just made up today

his house so that when the jurors came by, he took all the white pictures off the wall and put black pictures on the wall. So take us back to what, how were you guys looking at it about his white picture? Yeah, so I was in social work school, which

was overwhelmingly white and female. I am the only African-American male who graduated from my class in 1995. So the conversations were lopsided, to say the least. And it wasn't just that she was white. She was, and you'll understand the term that I'm going to use, she was pretty. She was a pretty white woman. And blonde. And blonde.

And all that matters. It does matter. And during that time, one of the things that was happening in the media, which we referred to back then, which is mostly magazines, is they would actually darken his picture to create a more uh a brooding aesthetic so they would go they would put filters on his picture on the cover of newsweek and other magazines where they darkened his aesthetic now keep in mind during the same time during the same time period mike tyson was already in prison for rape so you have our heroes and again by parallel you'd be looking at and i i don't mean to make the parallel because i don't want to put this on this brother, but the likes of a Pat Mahomes, the likes of a LeBron James, the likes on a Money Mayweather. These cats were at the top

of their game in terms of as athletes, as entertainers, and as wealthy people. These were the same things that were happening during that time. So we were now looking at a global phenomenon, an actor who was being accused of killing a pretty white woman. And so the presentation of it was the the most taboo of taboos. We're talking about just whistling a white white woman that Emmett Till was accused of. We're talking about full-fledged murder. So for many of us, it was like, oh, if he is accused of killing a white woman, it's a wrap. You know, so sad, too bad, brother. You about to get a death penalty two, three times in a row.

You going to die. And there was no notion that there was such a thing as an African-American who had the financial wherewithal to be able to hire attorneys of the caliber that he was able to. Every single way that, you know, a social work school in Philadelphia at the time, my knowledge of attorneys was public offenders or whoever you knew who knew somebody would get you in there. Basically, you were still going to be guilty, but you wouldn't go to prison for the entire rest of your life. If you rolled on somebody, you might be able to see the light of day at some point. So this notion that you could even conceive that you might get off, that was something

that was inconceivable so i remember where i was the day that he was found not guilty i watched the case myself during that time i was doing an internship for an african american man was pretty wealthy and during that time i was was doing an internship, and in his office, they had CNN. We were watching it, and I remember we were all sitting in the conference room, and I remember thinking, O.J. going to jail. O.J. get a death sentence.

O.J. is going to die, and then I remember seeing the verdict, and I remember that CNN, because it was because i was watching cnn at the time i remember they went to i think it was howard university and people jumped up like we had just won the uh the election of president obama they they all there was just like this hooray and i'll be honest with you i i grew up watching someone be domestic i grew up in a domestic violence household uh for the time that they were together and i remember knowing what it was like to watch my mother under those conditions and and as a social worker i had

seen it enough time that i'd seen it and as a black man there was a part of me that thought did we just did we just get away with this we didn't get away with the rodney king thing didn't get away with the mike tyson thing did we just get away with this for a spell even i as somebody was going with a master's in social work the complexity of the emotions right wow i never thought for a second and to this day i never thought that he was innocent i didn't i still don't you know there was a time you could never say that people would just you know because people truly johnny cochran had a way and this is what i actually teach a class on the um how to win in the court of public opinion he created such an environment that people actually believed that OJ Simpson and people can are still debating this to this day that people believe that it's no way that one man

could do this even though they showed how his pot I've known people who have stabbed multiple people at that time or have done what you know, they've shown. And even though the blood was everywhere, even though the DNA was everywhere, even though, you know, his hand was cut, even though Johnny Cochran is such a masterful job of his. So let's just pause there for a month. Let's let's really deal with what people were celebrating. The majority of what black people were celebrating. Yes. It was not a matter of, now there were people who believed he didn't do it, but there was not a matter of if he did it or didn't do it. It was what you said. Did he actually get away with this?

And did a black man, an attorney, make that happen? Was the system finally beat and what i think is interesting is how oj sims because even at that time he went to the black church like johnny carter really did it like he brought him to the black church he did all imagine if that happens now i'll just use an example with candace owens a couple of weeks ago everybody kept asking my opinion on that you know somebody who people said you know it's not for us who mocked the murder murder of George Floyd, mocked the murder of George Floyd. And she's pretty much going on a black church tour. And I'm looking at the majority of people saying, no, no, no, you can't come back over here. And then some people say, well, you know, she kind of got a point.

It reminds me of this O.J. Simpson. He was embraced. And I want you to talk a little bit about that. Do you think some of the embracement was the love? Because, you know, I did a, bear with me when I get my words. I did a podcast on this, on the love that we have, the forgiving love that we have, the come on back home, the prodigal son. Was some of that, you know we're hurt that you left us because

oh they did leave the black community let's just be clear it wasn't even just about marrying a black a white woman it was about he disconnected himself and it made a point to say that he's not black he's oj go ahead he's not the only one i'm gonna answer that question in a second there are many black people who we see in media today who if you check the last 10 people they've spoken to, if you check the last 10 people they have texted, you text the last 10 people they went and hung out with, none of them are black. They're hired by media to come on and talk from the perspective of being African-American. Many of them are on MSNBC and CNN. They don't have black friends. They don't have black partners. They don't live in the black community at all. Not at all. They can reflect on having grown up in the whatever community. But if you look, they went to Our Lady of this or that or prep for this or that, And they went to this elite school. And so you'll hear them, those people who spend a significant amount of their time in the black community, hear the distinction between them and other black people. But many white people don't know the difference. They just see two black people. They don't know that there's a significant, not nuanced difference between these people who've only gone to private white schools and then to an elite college,

but who are still phenotypically black. And these people who are phenotypically black, but who spend the lion's share of their time engaging with the African American experience writ large, not just the Inkwell experience, not the Jack and Jill experience, but the full experience. I don't think that people, and I'll start with me,

would be the people I was talking to during that time, we weren't celebrating O.J. Simpson. I was never expecting O.J. to come back. I accepted that he was gone. I accepted that he was gone. What I, as a black man who was just getting to a place where for the first time in my life, I thought that I might be an intellectual. I remember growing up thinking I was stupid. I stayed back in the third grade. I was in remedial classes. I just thought I was stupid. I knew I struggled to read. I didn't know why. I just thought I was stupid. I stayed back in the third grade. I was in remedial classes. I just thought I was stupid. I knew I struggled to read. I didn't know why.

I just thought I was stupid. I thought all the black boys, we were just not smart. We were the ones who got in the most trouble. School wasn't for us. I remember coming into what I believed to be my intellectual own during that time. I remember somebody calling me intellectual one time. I thought they were trying to clown me. Somebody was trying

to call me white. Like, yo, what you just called me? To see Johnny Cochranran i was like that that during that same time you have to realize cornell west was starting to do a fist speaking engagement during that same time uh mike dyson was dr mike dyson was out there so you got west dyson and and and and cochran who people like me were starting starting to read what derrick bell we're reading faces at the bottom of the well like we're reading this stuff and we're starting to discover this is i need you to understand it's the same time as the million man march so the million man march is happening right so you got the million man march coming to coming to be so

i'm in philly during this time and i'm going to see farrakhan and he's doing organizing so we got black men coming together we got uh uh Derrick Bell that we're reading. We got Kwanzaa B. Junjufu. We got all these people like we're starting to be like, okay, so you can be black and you can be smart. Right, right, right. Hell, OJ, this ain't even about OJ. Yeah, just to put a pin there.

And guys, thank you for joining us. Just quickly, this is Dr. Steve Perry. We got a couple of hundred on Instagram, 500 on make sure you tap in do a quick search and put in two-way with tesla figaro go to youtube if you want to see this live don't forget your thought that i just want to make sure i'm putting a pin in that on what you're actually saying for the first time you got to see the black intellectual be black present black act black talk black and be smart during the same time remember during that time black hip-hop was about black medallions no gold during that time self-destruction was what we were talking about that that was so there was a there was a black

consciousness occurring simultaneous to literally saying burn hollywood burn yes and the police so let's be clear so they're all simultaneously you had that going on but you had nwa who i subscribed to where you had because again we're coming out of rodney king you know shout out to spud i talk about him all the time one of my very best friends he was a part of the blood and crypt treaty so now you're coming out of you're seeing what i call the homies were the black militia those those on the ground, those same men that went to the million man march. The homies saying, no, you know what's happening. Yes. Yes. Peace treaties. Yes. Pleasant trips. In certain sense, we're coming together and say, yo, what are we doing? So there was a black consciousness that was taking shape and it was running alongside what we refer to as gangster rap, but it was

gangster rap because it was people who were saying, we are tired of you having your boot on our neck. We tired of y'all beating us and getting away with it. One of us is going to get through. It's either the thugs and we're going to get out or it's going to be the intellectuals. But one of us is going to make it to the top and we're going to make it being polite. That was what this was about. So you have all these things happening at the same time. I don't ever think that there were any cats who were like come on back oj what the hell wait oj that was not even what i was thinking when i was connected to and what the brothers who we would have these sets as we would have these sets at my crib in philly brothers would sit around and like i mean brothers like

brothers brothers even like real dudes like i don't want to go through you understand what i'm saying like those dudes we sitting around and we and we debating over over what topics it was this is the time when even the roots the group the roots this is when they were in philly they were coming up like there was a black consciousness black thought in there like this is who we were and so at the same time as we're going to the Million Man March planning committees, at the same time as we got black men coming to campus to speak to us on white campuses, at the same time as we got Rodney King have his head literally open, we have OJ comes in. So OJ for many of us himself was not who we were pulling for. I never thought for a second that the cat was innocent. It just didn't seem like it made sense. But for me,

it felt like if we're going to play this thing, let's play it all the way out. They just got to put reasonable doubt in here, right? So for us, I never felt good about OJ getting off. I said it then and I'll say it now. I never felt good about that. Why do you think people did that? Why do you think there were people that just did not believe that it was possible that one person could decapitate two people? And again, if people actually go back and watch the trial and actually look at the evidence, which, you know, nobody likes evidence, who wants to read? But if you actually go back and look at how ron goldman was um how nicole's head was basically chopped off there was no fighting two people at the same time and then there was the struggle one after the other that's correct

so why do you think because even now even looking in the comments you know rest in peace oj oj i wonder if these people are really connected to the man oj are still connected to i wasn't even in and and let me be clear let me not attempt to present myself as some uh someone who was deeply thinking during that time either i want to make sure that i'm clear what i don't want to do is, is into the conversation pious. I'm saying, I know where I was sitting in Mr. Wade's conference room when it happened. Yes. I know. I know feeling a duplicitousness of, I watched the kids down at Howard say what they were saying and I watched them celebrate and I felt badly about that.

But there was enough of me, if I'm going to be frank, to think about we got one. They got 400 years of it. We got one. Right. I didn't feel good about what the we was.

I didn't feel good about what the one, what the one was. But any Black man who's ever been pulled over by a cop, any Black father who's ever had to say to his son before he leaves the house, listen, do this, do this, do this, do this. Up the street from me, literally, less than a mile from me, a young Black man about two years ago was murdered by cops. He was murdered. It was what it was. I mean, they broke the window. They had the young man surrounded. They broke the window.

He's still strapped in a seat, and they just unload into the car, just unload into the car. He was murdered. That's murder. That's murder. That's murder. None of those cats have been, none, all of them have been have been reinstated everyone every cop who did that has done that so they're so there's still this feeling of in the way in which many of us can celebrate a drug dealer like we can celebrate

a drug dealer because he's getting his he's trying to do right by him at the same time is feeling very very conflicted about the fact that he's killing somebody do right by him at the same time is feeling very very conflicted about the fact that he's killing somebody's mother right now like somebody's mother right now is a drug addict somebody's father right now is a drug addict i just i just lost a very good friend of mine last week um to an overdose um i don't feel so good about that. I, it's just a matter of who do we identify with at what point? I don't ever feel like the people who I was around were ever like pro OJ. We loved him as an athlete, but then we just recognized. And I'm saying this because I want to say, I want so many of the people who watch you to understand that you, Tez, are different than a lot of the black women and men that they see on television and on the radio. And I want people to really understand that a lot of those people you see, a lot of the ones you see, they don't spend a lot of time in the black community and they damn sure don't spend a lot of time with poor black people. They may spend a lot of time with the intellectual elite, which again, thank God, go you.

Great that your mother and father have been successful. I mean, I'm now that person to my own sons. I don't want somebody dogging my sons out because they don't spend time in poverty. That's just not their lifestyle. But it does give them a certain perspective that the kids who they went to school with in our schools don't have. Our kids have a very different experience. So I want people to understand that very often the commentators who are talking, who are telling you what black people think, don't spend a lot of time around black people who we would typically consider

when we think of black people. They're not talking about them. Even though they say all the time, the barbecue, the barbecue, for some reason, they think that makes them look cool, but continue. They keep saying, who's invited to the barbecue? And I'm like, you ain't barbecue the barbecue for some reason i think that makes them look cool but continue they keep saying who's invited to the barbecue and i mean you ain't at the barbecue the barbecues that i go to you wouldn't be invited but let's call it let's call it let's call it what it is they will be the ones who will stop by the costco and get you the macaroni cheese you're like dog i see the sticker on it come on what did you just do here now i invited you i look like a goddamn fool because you come up to this joint and you got costco i can see the costco on it yes and while

we're there let's and while we're there let's let's use that that metaphor that analogy johnny cochran brought oj to the barbecue he brought him to the barbecue because he left many many times let me push you on that let me push you that yeah i don't think johnny cochran brought oj i think johnny cochran was always seen as there so it's just like it's just like the cousin who you bring who brings his girlfriend or his friends to the to the cookout you're like he's cool because he's with you but if you leave he gotta go yes yes yes nobody wants to the crock yeah we're sitting across from his table playing space. Nobody's part of the space table.

He's gone. This dude is gone. He's gone. Cut your your your ace of spades. Yes. You will put down a spade and this dude going to throw it. Well, that's what I mean. It was a plus one deal.

And I want to put a pin here too because man this is such a good conversation you guys tag a friend join in but i want to put a pin here too because what i talked about a couple of weeks ago with the candace owens conversation is the love of a black woman because this is very critical and how we love and love and love and love and take back and take back and take back and stand by. That's why I compared the love of black woman to the love of God. The forgivingness. Even now, you know, people saying, you know, hey, I'm looking into coming.

Caitlyn Jenner was out of pocket. We are quick to lace up our shoes and fight even if you're wrong. We will still go put that house up, get you out of jail, cuss you out all the way home. We will still say no matter what you did. So even in using the analogy of the barbecue, if OJ Simpson came back and the brother's like, hey, we know what you want. We ain't really with you. But since you with Johnny, that's cool. That black woman is still going to say, can I fix you a plate? Can I get you something? Have you ate? Now, some of the sisters are going to say, no, you want to go with that white girl, move on the reason why i'm using this example dr pearce because

fast forward to jonathan majors now and obviously he didn't murder anybody but i look at the the comments and i look at the black women when he got back with it before he started dating Megan. The black women were saying some were saying you learned your lesson. It is what it is. This would have been a different time in 1995 because the black women, for the most part, were lining up behind O.J. Simpson because they looked at his mother. They looked at his black daughter. But now you have I wonder what this will be like now, because now you have black women say, hey, Jonathan, you shouldn't have been over there anyway. But there's still an overwhelming amount of black women that are still saying, you know what? You made a mistake. We're going to ride with you anyway. What we're not going to do is let them

tear you down. What we're not going to do is let them take everything from you. We hope you learn. And if you don't learn, whatever this learning lesson is, because there's still people say, love who you love. We don't have a problem learning who you love. But there's always been this thing where Black women, what pains us, and I'm gonna give it back to you. The trauma that pains us is being forgotten about, being left like OJ Simpson's first wife, being there with that man through it all thick and thin. You get money and then you leave us,ye said it leave you for a white girl ironically kanye did the same thing so women black women at that time moved past that pain some stayed in that trauma and said no jay say where you at but we're gonna

rule for johnny cochran so just now i see the same things happening in these conversations just you know looking at jonathan majors for example what's your thoughts on that yeah so I I would say this to me is bigger than just the woman the second woman he married for me it is when I look at Judge Clarence Thomas I think of him as someone who rarely, if ever, engages with African-Americans. It's not just that he's married to a white woman. It is that he is someone who has very little sway or interest in the uplift of the African-American community versus someone like a Dawn Stanley, who I'm told is with a white woman. I don't think that there are very few people who doubt her integrity or cultural integrity or commitment to our greater cause. I think most people, if there were a black draft,

would put Dawn Stanley at the top of their card um and and she would be a first round draft pick to borrow from the chappelle show so i think in the case of oj simpson i think of the in the case of clarence thomas i think in the case of candace owens these are people who have very little put into the cultural bank, very little interest other than the functional interest of, well, I ain't got nobody else. It's like being they went out their way to remove themselves, basically. What I would say, but it's even more than that. It's being the person. Who that person never wanted to date and then when the other people drop you you go back and say well at least there's always you like whoa hey that don't feel right i

don't think i won right there did i just win i don't feel like i won right so i don't feel that people, I feel that people, and I use Dawn as an example, because she's someone who ain't nobody going to question her, quote unquote, blackness. I don't think, I think you have to, well, let me just say this. There are always going to be people who question people's blackness. I'm not part of that group. But the majority of Black America was rooting for her. For those who are listening, you're talking about Don Staley, the coach of South Carolina. That's correct. National champion coach of South Carolina.

One of the greatest athletes of male. Black woman who won three times. But go ahead. But Anne did so jet black. Did so jet black. When she gave her victory speech, that was torn from a Baptist pulpit. That might have been a Pentecostal four o'clock in the afternoon. Church is still going on from 11 a.m.

Right. So O.J. was never that. And there was an anti-race perspective that he had taken and had written to his zenith again i'm gonna stay here for a second because a lot of people a lot of people love michael jordan but not a lot of people who love michael jordan have loved him for his open love of the black community right they've not openly said that he has been the guy who has taken stances on the African-American experience. Michael Jordan's done fine for himself. He's done really, really well for himself, you know, and is one of the greatest athletes of all time. I don't know what he's given or what he hasn't given. I'm not in

that man's pocket, but I'm saying it. Well, he said he's about selling shoes. So he said, don't look to him for those things. I actually remember when when he said that but let's just use some you know there are certain people who are and you and i talk about this who are conservative let's just say who have a political perspective that is not let's say bought and sold by the by the by the left but i would say you would say they're just as black as anybody just because they don't believe in abortion and just because they don't think that uh they mean they're as committed to the community as anybody. They go to a black church. They know what to bring to a cookout. They could be a spade. They are the people who are in the community doing the work. They're deeply committed. They just have a different spin on who to vote for and why.

That's not what we're talking about. What we're talking about is people who by and large have no interest, connection, or commitment to the black community. OJ Simpson was that person and was proud of it. I don't know him as a man. I'm just talking about what his public offerings were. That's right. Because even somebody like a Jim Brown, who was said to have been throwing white women out windows, or James Brown, who was doing his share of domestic violence. Each one of them at points in their lives were very clearly trying to organize other black men. That's right. Proud to be black. And that's so important, Dr. Perry. I'm so glad, man, this is good. Y'all make sure y'all tag somebody again.

Let me just reiterate that and put a pin in it because I'm looking at the comments. I want to make sure they know exactly what you're saying. This is not about saying that anybody that has an interracial relationship is anti-black. It is about the position because we can look to Harry Belafonte. There is no question about his blackness married to a white woman. So this is not about Douglas. That's right. Yeah, that's right.

So this is not about because, you know, they always try to dumb that down. Somebody just mad because somebody. No, that's right yeah that's right so this is not about because you know they always try to dumb that down oh somebody just mad because somebody no that's not it it is about the intentional disrespect the intentional separation the intentional not just abandonment and aggressive and aggressive conscious and aggressive abandonment like these are if y'all want to know who these people are they're the black student that you see when you're walking on campus who looks away. It's like, who raised you? That's right.

If you're a black kid on a white campus and you see another black person walking towards you, you don't give that head nod, I see you, little boy. I see you. But remember, somebody else is going to see you too. It's that person who's at the company that you both work at, who's African-American, who doesn't even acknowledge your existence.

That's right. Wow. That's what we're doing now. I got you. And so you're going to go off. You're going to go off a crack beers with them. Tell me how long it's going to take before they drop an N-word on you. That's right. And just say they're just playing.

And yet. And don't come over to me afterwards. That's right. And yet. And see, that's the point. Some people say don't come over to me afterwards. but we find ourselves as black people with our forgiving loving self and that's the part that i think is so interesting yeah not it's plenty of us that say no duly know to stay where you're at if you like what you heard on straight shot no chaser please subscribe and

drop a five-star review and tell a friend straight shot no chaser is a production of the black effect podcast network and iheart radio i'm tisland figaro and i'd like to thank our producer editor mixer duane crawford and our executive producer charlamagne the god for more podcasts from iheart radio visit the iheart radio app apple podcast or wherever you get your podcasts you