The Breakfast Club - The Breakfast Club BEST OF SHOW - Andrew Young & John Hope Bryant & Abby Phillip interview

Episode Date: January 19, 2026

Best of 2025- Andrew Young & John Hope Bryant & Abby Phillip iinterview. Recorded 2025. YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@BreakfastClubPower1051FMSee omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

This is an I-Heart podcast. Guaranteed human. woke up, woke up, wake you up. Wake that ass up. Program your alarm to Power 105.1 on IHartRadio. Good morning, USA! Yo, yo, yo, yo, yo, yo, yo, yo, yo, yo, yo, yo, yo, yo, yo, yo, yo, yo, yo, yo, yo, yo, yo, yo, yo, yo, yo, yo, yo, yo, yo, yo, yo, yo, yo, yo, Joe, Joe, Joe. Shalem the God.

Peace to the planet, it is Monday. Martin Luther King Jr. Day, baby. That's right. Salute the MLK, man. Make civil rights. Make some noise, y'all with the F. Could you stop? How old would you have been?

Make some noise with the F. It would have been 96. Yes, make some noise y'all with the F. And you know what's so crazy? He would have been 96. A lot of times we say people could have been at a certain age, but Martin Luther King Jr. Truly could have still been here on his planet,

96 years old if he wasn't, you know, tragically murdered and taken away from us back in the day. Because think about it, Andrew Young is still alive, who will be replaying his interview, you know, later today. And he was the top strategist for Martin Luther King Jr. Reverend Jesse Jackson is still alive. Like, there's so many people. from the civil rights movement that was with Martin Luther King Jr.

Dr. Martin Luther King Jr. that is still alive today. That's right. Yes. So today on the show we're going to play back our interview with Andrew Young and John Holbein. John Hobr. That's right. Discussed the interview because I wasn't here that day. I mean, Andrew Young, like I said, he was the top strategist for Dr. Martin Luther King,

Jr., man. And, I mean, he really lived it. So, I mean, Andrew Young. And he was also former mayor of Atlanta. Like, Andrew Young's done so many different things. So he'll just be here to talk about himself. But he was also being too humble, and that's why Mr. John Holbeinner to step in like you'll stop being humble and get him the facts like tell him you know he's such a

nice he's such a nice guy but i think with guys like andrew young you know it's hard for him not to be humble simply because it was just his life yeah you know what i'm saying like to us we're looking at it like wow this is amazing but to him he just lived it just lived it this is his life he don't know nothing else yeah absolutely and also uh we're getting on abby phillips interview you know why we getting abby phillips on because abbey phillips uh put out a book that was about jesse jackson that is called uh yes it was called jesse jackson and and the fight for black political power. You know what I mean?

So like I said, these brothers that were actually there with Martin Luther King Jr. are still alive, man. So, you know, let's have conversations about them all. All right, well, get your ass up. It's the breakfast club, good morning. It's a new day. This is your time to get it off your chest. Wait, wake up.

Whether you're mad or blast. It's time to get up and get something. Call up now. 800-585-105-1. We want to hear from you on the Breakfast Club. Hello, who's this? Keisha from Florida Oh boy

I see why you upset Keisha What Keisha mad about You? What I do to Keisha What do, Shalaman? You hate her I don't owe you no child support You want me to tell him

Kisha Tell him Kisha said She wanted to know Why Shalomane Don't like fat people Why is that I don't like fat people

You'd be talking crazy No, that's not what I said I want to know Why Shalamey hate fat people I don't hate fat people Why come and talk to me Tell me why you think I hate you You hate you

You hate a lot of people Like, you got some issues, Charlemagne, baby. I want you to go look in the mirror and tell yourself you love yourself. Because you always tear people down no matter what it costs, and you don't pour into people and build them up unless it pours and builds you up too. And that's a problem, honey. You need to deal with that. Could you tell me why you think I hate that people?

But you're very successful man. You're somewhat attractive. You don't have a reason to be such a year. Why you go there? Because you had her. Now, now you got me. Now, Keisha, now I'm really listening. Keisha, now I'm really listening.

You had a little. Listen. Keisha, now I'm really listening. Yes, I am somewhat attractive. Why do you think I hate fat people, though? Other comments about the fat people and the airline, when Lauren's on, you have all these things to say about Louie and her relationship on a cell.

Just say something. You cut just down. You're a hater in general, baby. And, I mean, that comes from some kind of hate within yourself. We need to deal with that. Like you like to read self-help books, but only for entertainment, clearly, because nothing's sticking. Keisha asking, what about that person did to you? What a big person did to you?

Nothing. I just don't agree with the fact that, you know, I agree with the fact that Southwest Airlines needs to make them pay for another airline ticket. Yeah, but even before that, because then you remember, like, when you and Reesotisa had a thing, you remember her? What I said about Reese Tisa. Go-Sahmy, baby. Go-Side me, baby. That's what I'm talking about. When we first heard Reese Tisa's voice, I just said she sounded like she was heavyset.

Kisha, are you, are you heavy 70s? I am. I am. I'm a proud 371 pounds on a thigh-year problem, and that's the only problem. 371. You right, baby. Three-old six kids, because it's cootie-cat good. Six kids.

They can't stay out of it. Don't play. How tall are you? Look good. How tall are you? Five, six and a half. No. How about your height?

Five-six. Oh, she said five, six and a half. Five six and a half. See what I'm saying? You're such a hater. You block your own years from hearings. Maybe. Listen,

sound 371. Listen, God bless Keisha and everything that Keisha's for. Because she sound good.

Go off, Keisha. Kisha. I mean, I'm just saying. I'm getting off job number two, about to take my kids

to school and go to job number one because I'm a hustler and a baller like that. Paying for a little extra sheet is nothing because I don't want to sit next because nobody anyway. I don't like being close up on people like that. I do that because I'm in the health care field.

So when I'm on my free time, get out my faith. Well, listen, Keisha, speaking of number ones and number three's, favorite fast food. Oh my goodness. Kisha,

you have a good day. I don't have one. Oh, okay. I like DJ steakhouse. Get on my level. Yes, ma'am. Stop me and a hater. Feed into people.

You said, feed into people. It costs nothing to be nice. You said feed it. It costs nothing to give love. I love you, Kisha. I love you and I respect you, Kish. I love you and I respect you

so, so much, Kisha. No, you don't because as soon as it falls over, you're going to talk so much crap about me. It's not even going to be funny. Except to you. you. I'm not going to you. I listen to the show every day.

You are haters, I need you to love you. Whatever hurt little boy is still in there crying out, give him some attention, some love and some love. Leave them so full books, take notes and let something sick because don't alone.

Yes, man. If somebody needs to tell you, some name right. Thank you. Some name right. I'm glad you got your family back. That's cool, but I mean, work on you now.

family. Keisha, you have a good one. Kisha was listening to me yesterday. You're listening to you spread that live. Lauren, talk about I got my family back. What I'm talking about when you got in trouble you had to get your life right with your wife, remember? That never happened.

You know, look at that guy. The envy, that happened to envy. See, hey, that was not me. I thought it was both of y'all. No, it was not. That was envy, okay? Shout out to Keisha, though, man. Boy, it's so good saying that.

I don't know. You said what? It's so good saying that to you yesterday. You told me I was going to be a side-ho. Yo, Keisha is five, six, can't. Listen, Keisha is 5, 6 and a half, 3701. Yes, she is. Yes, she is.

Kisha, you have a great day. She works in the health care business, so she probably be a nurse. I think me and Kisha need to learn to love ourselves a little bit more. Shut up there. That's all I'm saying. You have a good morning, Kishu. God damn. Damn.

Kisha. Kish is working two, three jobs. She got six kids. I wish, I would have paid for Kisha's lunch today. Why lunch? No. Why? You don't know she need me.

She might need a tutup on her car. Because I'm going to do like $50 for lunch. I'll pay me. Kim's Olympic shots, I'll pay for her. You know what? Kisha's, though, man. You're not going to be funny. You're talking about you.

I'm not. I don't pay for lunch today. That's what I do all the time. You don't know what I'm going to say for. I'll pay for people's lunch. Why? Well, we got all these golden corral certificates around here. Why you need to pay for Keesha's lunch?

You know what? We got all these golden crowd certificates. She can even go and crowd for a year for free. And you want to pay for her lunch? Get it off your chest. 800-585-105-10. If you need to vent, hit us up now. It's the Breakfast Club.

Good morning. Hello, who's this? Hi, this is Tiara. I used to be neighbors with Charlemagne. My grandmother used to hit on him in the elevator. How many men did you see going in and out of his place? Good morning, Tiara. Good morning.

How are you? I have blessed black and highly favorite. How are your grandma doing? Same as always. Man, sit on my love, please. I will. I'm calling because I'm exhausted from fighting my mental health alone. I live with severe depression and anxiety

and I've only felt genuinely happy like twice. I'm stuck in the cycle of burnout and the brief relief and I'm scared of me more of the same. You know, Charlemagne always talks openly about letting his mental health, not letting his mental health stop his success.

And that's why I'm reaching out. I'm a creative person who feels like life has been grinding me down. I'm starting to lose the person and I used to be the best. I know I used to be really talented and creative, and I know it's still in there, but I just need some guidance,

maybe mentorship or perspective from someone who understands the struggle and how to move forward anyway. And I'm tired, but I'm still trying. You know, that's what I'm calling. I totally understand T.R. T.R. T. I'm going to get your information. Eddie, please get T.R.'s information.

Write our number down and stuff. I'm going to call you later after the show, Tiar. All right, thank you. Absolutely. Don't hang up, okay? No. I'm not. Get our number right now, Eddie.

Hello, who's this? Hey, Emma, Shavita from New Jersey. Sharita from Jersey. What part of Jersey? I can't tell you all that. Eddie, damn. I'm sorry. What you mean?

You got a lot? You got warrants? Jersey's a big place. No, but listen, I'm about to talk about your friend. Who? So I don't want him know where I'm from. What friend? Trass.

I'm sick of him. He needs to go for this year. Why? What Tram do? Nah, I'm just tired of him every morning. He called every other day. Trave is a loyal breakfast club listener. I am too, but darn.

But listen, get a new system for the new year. I should not have to call 80-dag-on-time. Get a new what? A system, phone system. There's a lot of people that are calling, Mama. The only one I agree with is Trave. I don't like when he start calling talking about that cowboy stuff. I'm with you.

I love Trave. You act like it's a new phone? I'm like y'all. Hey, Jess. Hey, baby, what's her? She acted like it's a new conscience who we can get. But y'all say, stay cool and good. But thank you, ma'am.

But salute the trap. Get it off your chest. 800585-105-1. If you need to vent, hit us up now. It's the Breakfast Club. Good morning. Morning, everybody. It's DJ NV.

Just hilarious. Salameen de Guy. We are the Breakfast Club. Lawlerosa is here as well. We got some special guests joining us this morning. Yes, indeed. We have Alani Smith here. Good morning.

Good morning. Good morning. We have Cece Williams. Good morning. We have Frederica Newton. Good morning. And we have Fred Hampton, Jr. How are y'all feeling this morning?

Man, we're blessed, man. Black and blessed, man. Bless Black and highly favored. Yes, sir. Lany, why we all gathered here today with all these amazing people, brother? Man, we had a New York Fashion Week show about a month ago, man. And we were blessed to have these individuals show up and walk on the runway with us, along with Dr. Bernice King and Eliasso Shabazz, the daughters of Malcolm X, I'm under the King. And the response to it, the way that black people have responded to seeing these people

on the runway knowing that this history wasn't that long ago like they tried to tell us that it was, has been powerful, man. So actively black, the company that I founded, we were built with the intention to uplift and reinvest back into the black community. And these incredible legends have been supportive of the brand. And when you, I want you all to know, man, Cecil Williams, right? Y'all know this legendary picture right here. That's right.

Of the brother drinking out of the whites only water fountain. I always wanted to ask you, Mr. Williams, was it a spontaneous active rebrandom? or something something you plan to do as a statement. It was a little bit of both. I was thirsty, but also, it was a middle of the sunshine of the summer, you know, as evident. Timmy Shelfth.

But also, this was not the first time I did this. There were many other times that I felt I wanted to really, I was not satisfied with living in the status quo and segregation. So this was something that I had done many times. And my mother warned me not to do it anymore, but I did it again, and this time it was photographed. Did you feel fear in that moment, or was your faith stronger than you feel? None whatsoever. This is about 15, 20 miles from Orangeburg and on Highway 21 and coming back from an assignment for Jet magazine. But I never sent this picture to Jet. It was something that I held in the family, and I knew I would get chewed out.

Had I, you know, given it to my mother and father, you see? So I hid it from there. I never sent it to Jet either. Wow. Time to get it. Um, maybe three or four years later, I showed it to the, you know, conversation one Sunday afternoon during a dinner. It kind of came out and then I got chewed out. Wow. What did that single act teach you about the power of defiance in the face of injustice?

Well, living in South Carolina, being a child of segregation, it was something that we encountered all day long from birth to death. We in South Carolina doing that period of time felt, again, we, um, we did, um, we did. We were treated as subclass human beings, not being able to go to a store and go into a restroom or get a drink of water out of a fountain or having to go to a side window or going to a movie theater and having to sit in a separate place or not at all. But again, one thing that I would like to, that's maybe out of characteristic of many Southerners, there were many good white people at the time as well. You can't just put a blanket statement against that all people treated this.

There were many good-hearted white people at the time. And they were friends of my family and they helped support our family. But it was some people in South Carolina again who lived by, treated us as a status quo, not being able to do this or that. So crazy to think about it. Like, you know, when you have these conversations, we're really not that far removed from that time. He's right here. That's not what I'm saying.

Like, you don't really think about it. like you said earlier, like we're not far removed from racism. And even the stories that my dad tells me, I'm like, this was crazy. This is what, 50 years ago? 60 years ago. I got one of my aunts. She said, I don't know nothing about no integration. Yeah. Because all she knew was segregated schools,

you know, growing up. We had Ruby Bridges walked the wrong way as well. And it was a powerful moment because everybody remembers that picture, six-year-old little girl being escorted into school by federal marshals. And Ruby just turned 71, but you know black don't crack. So she looks

45 and she walks out on the runway it made it real to people like that same little girl in that black and white photo is walking right here in front of me so that's that's the power of having these individuals here with me showing you know how close we are to everything that we still fighting to this day

do y'all hate you I'm sorry do you all hate white people god damn it's right what the hell and I'm gonna tell you why when I talk to my dad my dad has a feeling towards white people right and I always joke and I laugh about it but then when he tells me his history of him being in the military and you know they're in the same barracks but then when

they go get some food it's white only and his is people in the barracks they go get food he can't yeah he talks about the water fountain in the bathroom and all this other stuff and why he looks at white people the way that he does i understand it so that's why i ask you the same well that's brought to the forefront by lany smith and again the fashion show in fact um he uh labeled the fashion show uh this is not a fashion show uh pictures like this are just um evidence of um a time and period we lived in America that, seemingly in today's society, some people want to bring it back. But it's long gone, but people that me who have experienced this, and people that were on this show that was put together by this amazing brother,

who has brought forth this apparel that, again, has crisscrossed across America and being put into the hands of today's generation, T-shirts and other things that he makes. we're not going to stand for again re-segregating America it's going to be something that is long gone and to answer your question there again many many good white people and again it's a myth I think that all white people

are bad of course I was growing up in South Carolina was such a mind because to your point I grew up around a lot of good white people but then we were also aware of the white people who treated us like sad as cold like it's certain places you knew you weren't supposed to go but then I also had my white friend

and Thomas and his family who lives right by me so it was a class thing so it's just I don't know, South Carolina different but to attack team but you I'm chairman Fred Hampton Jr. I'm honored to be here and again Clint Smith salute to this brother and his wife his team you know what I'm saying because everything's political

including fashion to get this pill in the apple sauce for these type of discussions as a revolutionary it's a misnomer about like it's motivated how you moves how we move is a hatred for someone else quote commandante Ernesto Che Guevar

say, you know, a revolutionary, no matter how preposterous it may sound, it's got about the most sincere sentiments of love. And I'm not saying this sort of abstract sort of way, but talking about the workers like such organizations, the Black Panther Party, the motivation for getting up with the first free breakfast programs, free bussing programs, survival programs, was not

that right at a hatred for anyone, you know what I'm saying? But again, motivate for love for people. But let me say this, though, I think all black people should get them like a mass, Nobel Peace Prize, all of us, you know what I'm saying? The fact that we ain't just on mass snapped out, you know what I'm saying? You know, I'm not saying, It's ironic that we ain't motivated at a hatred.

But again, and sometimes even though it's a reactionary response, it's kind of justified. But again, for the record, it's a motive that I love for the people. I'd like to echo if I could. Hi, I'm Frederica. And Huey Newton was my husband. And what came to mind when you even asked that question was a quote from Huey that said, what motivates people is not hatred, but it's love for other people. So my mother was white.

and she introduced me to Huey because she was doing work with the Black Panther Party and she was the only one that they trusted to do the real estate work. So I did not grow up hating anyone, but what I do hate is white supremacy and the impact on black community. Absolutely.

I actually hate that. And the impacts of it and the impact that has had on us. So again, as my brother said so eloquently, as he always does, as he always does, is that the Black Panther Party service was out of love, out of love for black people, out of love for oppressed people. And it wasn't guided by hate.

So it's impossible for me to hate anybody. Lanny, why was it important to have these historical black figures walk into actively black fashion show? Yeah, so one, the tagline for actively black is there's greatness in our DNA. And very intentional about that because I think over the centuries of oppression, subconsciously our people have accepted I won't say accepted sometimes it seeps into our subconscious

that we are less than not as good as this is what has been told to us this is what has been preached to us for centuries I'm trying to rewrite that narrative I'm trying to deprogram and reprogram my own people to understand that there's greatness in our DNA it's literal greatness in the DNA that walked on that runway

when you see Malcolm and Martin's daughters walk on that runway together that DNA is is something that has moved mountains, that has changed lives, you know what I'm saying? And that exists within all of us. So it was important for our people to see that, to know that we are more than just our trauma. You know what I mean? We have so much greatness inside of us.

And if we start acting out of that greatness, that's how we can change things for our community. How difficult was it getting everybody? And how long did it take? Man. It was stressful. One, there was a white supremacist who was killed by another white man about a week before our show. And... That about what, y'all occurred?

Yeah, yeah. And it sent some shockwaves through our plans because you're talking about children of people who were assassinated, real political violence. And so I had to reconvents Ilyos Chabas and Dr. King to still be a part of this show. there were some safety concerns. We had to bring in three extra teams of security just to make sure that they were secure because the rhetoric was that there was going to be payback, which never made sense to me because it was a white man that killed him. You know what I mean?

But I think the reason why I was able to execute on that was the respect that I had paid to these individuals before. Everyone you see up here, Dr. King, Dr. Ilyasa Shabazz, I went to them and asked them for permission to put their family members on this gear. I have licensing agreements with them so that when we sell apparel, the Black Panther Party Museum gets money. Fred Hampton, the Hampton House gets money. Cecil Williams Museum gets money, right?

The Sabah Center, the King Center, actively black pays them when we sell this merch. And so, you know, you can go on any market or any weekend, and you'll see a lot of us selling this stuff, not realizing these people actually lost people in this struggle. and they weren't compensated, right? And so I think I earned a level of respect with them that when I made that call

and I asked them, can you walk on this runway for me? They answered the call and I feel so humbled. I mean, Dr. King, when she arrived, she gave me a signed speech from her father and she prayed with me and I broke down and cried. You know what I mean? Like her schedule is crazy for her to move around her travel schedule

to be there for this show. It's something I'm forever grateful for. Did you have any concerns, any security concerns at all? My man Canaan made sure we were good with the security. We weren't going to let nobody even get close to touching, you know, this royalty. Yeah. What does it mean to be actively black? That's such a layer question and there's a reason why I named it that.

You got to understand when I was starting to actively black. By the way, we'll celebrate five years this Black Friday. We launched on Black Friday 2020. I had a lot of black people tell me don't name the country. company actively black. I had black executives tell me if you put black in this name, it will not be successful. And I realized that a lot of them were speaking from a place of fear of working in corporate environments where they had to minimize who they were in their identity. And so there's nothing passive about what we have to do to uplift our people, right? So it's a double entendre.

I want our people to be more healthy. We do free mental health events. We do physical activations where we're having people do yoga, sound bath, meditation. We're getting our people access to the things that they need so that we can keep moving. That's the only way the movement can keep going is if we're healthy enough to keep moving. Right. So it's a double entendre. We're active wear brand. You know, there's no reason why we shouldn't have our own Nike.

That's what actively black is. When we build this multi-billion dollar brand, it's not for my personal wealth. It's for us to uplift our people. actively black.com. I want I want, I want Brother Cecil, Sister Frederica, give them the museum websites, so people can donate.

Well, you can go to Cecil Williams, I'm sorry, South Carolina, Civil Rights Museum, but we also have a way of like PayPal and the email address there and several other ways,

but we're easily fine. We're, again, in a college town of Orange Bay, South Carolina, and we need your support, even dollars, one dollar helps. So please support us.

That's right. If you part gifts, I want to make sure you get this. And then so Fred you could close us out, make sure you got that. What's the museum? On Instagram is at the Black Panther Party Museum and the Dr. Huey P. Newton Foundation, celebrating 30 years this year. Please come visit us in Oakland, California, Black Panther Party Museum. We're open, I mean, and we're packed too.

So this month celebrates the Black Panther Party history. month and we're full of celebration. So please visit us there. Thank you. I can. Also, I'm on, thank you all for having us here. Klinchfis salute to our fellow panelists.

Clintzvist, Clinchfittalute actively black. The 7th 4th International Revolutionary Day coming to Chicago. Also, the Hamptonhouse.org. We've got our programs going to childhood home of chamber of Freight in Hampton, Maywell, Illinois.

Again, the Hamptonhouse.org. I want to close out this quote by minister, Dr. U.E.P. Newton. A pitch is worth a thousand words, but action is supreme. you have it. Right, well, it's the Breakfast Club. Good morning. Thank you guys. Thank you so much. Morning, everybody. It's DJ NV. Jess Hilarious. Shulamaine de Guy. We are the breakfast club. Long LaRose is here as well. And we got a special guest in the building. Civil rights activists, politician, diplomat, and past, ladies and gentlemen, OG Andrew Young. Good morning, sir. Good morning. How are you, brother? I'm really glad to be here with you. Yes, sir. I'm long overdue. Man, who are you telling?

I need, I mean, I need to know where you are. Yes, sir. And I'm a look at the book and be honest, a die lying, and I probably, you know, I need to read that quickly. Yes, sir. John Hobbrien is here as well. John Hobrian, good morning, sir. Good morning.

Mr. Andrew Young has a new documentary out called The Dirty Work. Why was it important for you to tell this part of your story now? Well, I'm telling my story. and we see the glamour of the civil rights movement, and it was very glamorous. Every one or two you see on television, there were 500 to 1,000 of us in the background doing the dirty work. And it's the way I got into it.

I was actually up here in New York in 1957, 58, and Dr. King needed somebody to move with him to Atlanta. My wife was from Marion, Alabama, which was a little country town near Selma. And we saw the NBC documentary on John Lewis in a national sitting story. We just bought a house out in Queens. And I was working up at the National Council of Churches. And when the documentary came on, my wife said, it's time for us to go home. I said, we are home.

She said, no, this is New York. I said, well, we just bought this house. We got a good job. She said, I'm going back to my mama and Alabama, and I'm taking my children. And I said, well, what do you want me to do? She said, I want you to sell this house and find a job down south. It was the attraction of going back south that got me back in the movement. And it was in that transition.

Martin Luther King had just been stabbed. and he took in New York. He took a month off to go to India and was just coming back and planning to move from Montgomery to Atlanta so I ended up

getting pulled in to try to help him move and that was the dirty work he needed to be in a bigger city than Montgomery but he couldn't afford to live in Atlanta except with his parents and so he was trying to raise funds. He never had a million dollars a year to work with

the entire time we had the movement going. And so I was trying to help him raise some funds and went to my church up here, the United Church of Christ, and asked them. They founded a number of colleges, Howard and Tbilis, Talladega, Tuguloo, all across the south. And so I said, you know, if you would let us use some of these properties or some of them, we could have a movement

southwide in little and no time. And so I was sort of being a bridge between him making the transition to Montgomery and coming to Atlanta. I was then moved from Atlanta back to, I mean from New York back to Atlanta. And the first job I got, he was not there. His secretary said, well, once she said, my wife's in Alabama, she said, you can't be hanging around here loose. He said, idle mine is the devil's workshop. You know, a bunch of kids in Alabama. A whole lot of devils.

Yeah. And she said, you need something to do. I said, well, anything I can do to help. And she gave me a great big egg crate packed with lettuce. And so she said, if you can help Dr. King with his mail, that's really if you want to get to know a company if somebody's coming in here and wants to get to know it answer the mail or at least read the mail

or know what's happening around and so it gave me I mean I ended up with a bucket of mail and that was sort of a dirty work so Charlemagne when he also when he went to go get the job when he went to go out south the stab didn't want him

Dr. King was out giving speeches and on the road the stabbed didn't want him he was smart he was articulate. He was, like, all the seats are taken. We all, we're good. They sent him packing. So he came back with a grant.

The grant was self-funded. And it was for nonviolent education or something like that. But he funded his salary. So Dr. King said, well, you can sit, you pay for it? You can sit around over here. Well, we're not only paid for it. Huh? We not only paid for it.

I brought access to all of those schools. Yes. In North Carolina, King's Mountain, Georgia, it was Atlanta University, Alabama, it was Tugulah, Talladega, Talladega, in Alabama and Tugulah and Mississippi. But the key point of that in Bastiong, was, you won't take credit of this, he became the one person nobody could fire. So he could speak truth to power.

Yeah, but we didn't fire anybody. Exactly, because Dr. King didn't like conflict. If you let me finish my point. Yes, so. Dr. King didn't like conflict. So he was a conflict manager. So he was the one inside the staff. You had crazy people on the left

and crazy folks sort of over here trying to do revolutions. Dr. King did want conflict. So he would expect Ambassador Young to knock heads. That's all the dirty work. That's it. And when he came in, he wanted it to be resolved. And so he was a resolution manager

inside the movement and outside the movement. Again, he doesn't take credit for it, but that really became one of his magic pieces was that he was independent. an independent thinker, just like you are. Just like all you guys are, independent thinkers. Did I get that right? I guess.

No, the thing is that I left Howard, and I really, well, I really fucked up for three and a half years. Damn. See? But I somehow got a degree. How you say you was f*** up? Because I was playing around, wasn't studying, and I was trying to make the swimming team.

And so I was trying to get on the girls. and I wasn't making any progress at all. You know, a little from New Orleans. And I got along with people, but I was trying to grow up. And when I came, left Howard, and we stopped because you couldn't, had no hotels that let you stay. We stopped at a Kings Mountain, North Carolina, where we had a church conference going on.

and I decided to run up to a mountain. Somewhere along there, I kind of blacked out. I looked around and everything seemed perfect. You know, it was a perfect sky, perfect cornfield, the green trees were sparkling. And I said, damn, everything here has got a purpose. And, but me. And I said, I cannot be put here on this earth with no purpose at all.

And how do I find a purpose? Well, what I came to was if there's something that I think needs doing and nobody wants to do it, that becomes my purpose. So I was looking for stuff that needed to be done that nobody wanted to do. It's such an interesting perspective when you talk about purpose too, John, because in my mind, you know, I always thought the purpose was the liberation of black people. But you're always just looking for a purpose within yourself. So let's get into real talk. He's got survivors guilt. He doesn't sleep.

He's always working because he was on that balcony. When Dr. King was assassinated, the FBI told him the instructions for the shooter, if you miss the dreamer, kill the strategist. He's been all this time, UN ambassador, first black union ambassador to history of the United States under Carter, first congressman since reconstruction in the south, brought the Atlantic, the Olympics to Atlanta, made Atlanta International City, Mayor, Presidential Medal of Freeman Awardee, Rich for a Legion of Vorty,

150 honorary doctor degrees, brought a venture capital to Africa, liberated Zimbabwe, helped to get Mandela out of prison. But underneath all this, I'm here because my friend was a shot. So he couldn't enjoy any of it. He'd give all his money away.

He's been a servant, his whole life, and he is the closest thing we have to Nelson Mandela. Everybody plays a role in the movement is what I've always heard and learned. I feel like today, when we talk about the boycotts that we're trying to do actively, there's no real roles. We don't take one thing serious.

We might take the other one serious because there's no structure. There's no, how did you get people to fall in line, even though not everybody agreed with it? Well, everybody used to go to church back then. And radio. Black radio was owned by white folks. And they would play the music,

but we'd have to slip in an announcement there's going to be a certain meeting at, you know, such and such a Baptist Church or such and such a Methodist Church. And they finally even stopped them from doing announcements. So it went by word of mouth. We knew that every night we'd have a mass meeting at some church in some neighborhood. And people would get together about 5 o'clock. And they'd sing these old songs that the young folk then came in and modified. the freedom songs. Then the preachers would come in and preach a little bit and tell what's going on.

But it was all around the church. And in the daytime, when the churches were not operating, the kids went to the schools and the guys who were hanging out at the pool hall, we'd stop by. They had. In fact, Dr. King was a very good pool play. He grew up in the YMCA. And he could get that by his attention, because he would go into a pool hall and challenge the guys, can I take the winner? And after they saw he could run the table, they listened to him. And it was finding a way to get to people where they are.

And they would really say, I'm ready to die for my people. It was a threat of death to almost every black man in the South until just recently and it's coming back now. It's more organized now. The only person who would talk about it openly was Martin Luther King. And he said, now, you know, if we go messing with Birmingham, some of us ain't going to come back.

See? Now, he knew he was the one most likely targeted, but, I mean, he'd make a joke out of it. And he had a real good sense of humor. He said, John, it might be your turn. but it's going to be one of the hardest things I ever do, but I'll try my best to preach your ass into heaven. Dang.

Dang. And then he'd start preaching all the things that I pick on him about, say. And he would say things you didn't know he knew about you. And he'd ask God to forgive you. And please let him into heaven. You know, I mean, he really turned your death into a, comedy. It wasn't sadistic.

Now, if you're just joining us, we're still talking with Andrew Young, civil rights activist, politician, worked very closely in Martin Luther King, Jr. Charlemagne? The fact that people knew that they could potentially die and still were willing to make that sacrifice is what I think is missing now. You shouldn't be willing to make the sacrifice. You should be willing to take your time and assume that you can make the world right. and you don't have to die

and we maybe have made it too difficult most of the people who died we can remember the names but there literally millions like Martin Luther King got stabbed

by a black woman up in Harlem and with a letter opener and a letter opener was pressing on the A order of his heart and they said if he had sneezed, he probably would have died. And he talked about that all the time, but what he talked about, he said, but he got a letter. This girl said, I'm 11 years old, and it shouldn't matter, but I happen to be white.

And I just want to thank you and thank God that you did not sneeze. And he talked about that all the time. Because it represented the fact that there's still many, many good people. And you shouldn't believe that the whole world is going to hell at a handbasket. That right now. So even right now in this moment. Right now. Okay.

The whole world is not going to hell in a handbasket. In the doc, you said after Martin Luther King Jr. got shot, you knew there was no hope. I knew that it was going to be hard, but I really, my mama used to make me go to Sunday school. And one time they were talking about Elijah going to heaven in a flaming chariot, and I was about nine years old. And I said, I don't believe that. They put me out of Sunday school. But I never forgot that.

And that's what I thought when I saw Martin laying there. One, I said he probably didn't even hear that shot. The bullet fowler travels faster to speed of sound. So it hit him right in his, it severed his spinal cord. So he probably never heard it. He probably never felt any pain. And he was dead instantly. And the thing that occurred to me then was,

damn, my brother then had gone to heaven in a flaming chariot. And all of the spirituals talk about, you know, steal away, steal away to Jesus. And I just felt that he'd gone home to the Lord. Yeah. And they left you here. And left me here. But I knew, and I still know, that there's hardly a day that I don't talk about him and learn or remember something that he said in a similar situation.

And I pass that on to my children, but to all children. And it's one of the reasons why I'm really grateful to those folk. And John is one of them that put together money to tell this story. Because all the books that were written by the movement are big, thick books. And we don't keep still along. the mass media, radio and television is still our means of communication. And it's why you play such an important part in our community and why I had to, I mean, I was in a meeting last night to 10 o'clock, went home, got me a few hours

sleep, got up at 4 o'clock in the morning, got on a plane and came up back here. Because I wasn't coming to talk to you all. you talk to more people than anybody I know. And when John said, he's going to let you talk to his people. I said, thank you, Jesus. No, it's a privilege, man.

Well, but it's a privilege for me. Do you think we've honored Dr. King's legacy or just branded it? No, I don't think there's anybody, anybody around that doesn't respect what he did and what he gave his life for. I think that, I think he is a sacred personality,

in our history. But everyone is like that. I mean, Christmas addicts. I knew about him. He's the first black man, first man to die for this country in Massachusetts. And he's black. This country would not be what it is without us. And I think Martin Luther King represents the best of us.

But he ain't the only one of us. say that there were people around him and only a half a dozen of us have been to college I mean most of us learn from the streets and they learned from our experiences but the I mean Louis Armstrong grew up in my neighborhood in New Orleans he didn't I don't think anybody ever gave him trumpet lessons he just picked up the thing and made it blow and And the thing that I'd like to remind people is that he is a man who grew up in one of the poorest neighborhoods in New Orleans. And he sings, it's a wonderful world. And there's Ray Charles, who's blind.

And there's a big piano out in Albany, Georgia, where he grew up. And he sings America to beautiful. But he doesn't start with the spacious skies. He starts with, oh, beautiful for heroes proved in liberating strife, who more than self their country loved, and mercy more than life. And we take the history of this country and the history of this planet, and we turn it into a piece of music or a symbol of grace. If we do something, we do it with style.

You know, and it's, and no matter what it is, is we do it better. What was the issue, the real issue between Martin Luther King, Jr. and Malcolm X. You know, there was no issue. The difference was that Martin Luther King learned in college, Malcolm X learned in jail. But Malcolm X read the dictionary and the Bible. say and when Martin came back with the Nobel Prize we were up to in Harlem and the

armory and when we came in the back door who was standing there in the back door with Malcolm X, two people, Malcolm X and Nelson Rockefeller and Malcolm X said I just wanted to thank you for all that you've done and I want you to know that I am with you and anything you want me to do but I think that it's probably better strategy if you and I don't seem to be so close and said that's why I'm not going to come in there with you in public

he wasn't trying to profile Malcolm was not trying to take his life Markham did used to disparage Martin publicly sometime though we'll call him Uncle Tom that was his brand it wasn't it wasn't Malcolm so much as it was that whole

crowd around Elijah Muhammad. Martin was close to Elijah too, it seemed like. I know. Well, because when we... The honorable Elijah. Because when we came to... If we went into a town,

like when we went to Chicago, we got all the big preachers together and got them to agree that we would be there with them and that they could tell us what they wanted us to do.

Now, some didn't like it. And some just didn't want anybody to have a profile but them. And we just went on around them. By the way, when he became mayor, just the point about people playing their roles, when he became mayor of Atlanta, the civil rights leaders, his friends, the second day he was mayor, they picketed him. So he went outside. He said, what are you guys doing?

He said, well, you're the mayor now. So, you know, you got your job, we got ours. And he accepted that. So Malcolm was playing his lane. He's playing his role publicly. But privately, he respected Dr. King. Now, if you're just joining us, we're still talking with Andrew Young,

civil rights activist, politician, worked very closely to Martin Luther King, Jr. Charlemagne? If the dirty work documentary could teach one lesson to this generation and the next generation to organize us, what would you want it to be? There is some dirty work

in any struggle for freedom. But dirty work could be hard work. dirty work could be thoughtful work you know whatever nobody else wants to do like we didn't want to mess with money and john decided that he was going to teach folk how to that you can't be free without voting but neither can you be free if you broke and so teaching people how to manage money how to save money how to invest money how to know the meaning of money to your salvation and survive That's another issue altogether, but communications is an issue. So don't be afraid of doing the dirty work, embrace it.

It is noble work, it's not dirty work. Yeah. Is that right? Not only is the novel work is the kind of work that has to be done. So when Charlemagne was doing that internship way back when, in that first radio program, and when people, noticed you. That was the dirty work. Absolutely. I'm sure you've done

dirty work in your career. You've always not been, both of you not always been sitting here prime time. You've had to hustle. You've had to do things and jobs nobody else wanted. I still do the dirty work now. It need be. And the work you're doing with mental health, the foundation you're doing, the stuff that nobody

sees, the conversation that we have at 2 in the morning about life in general, all that's the dirty work and raising your children is the most honorable version raising your paying school fees like we've got to be about

the basics we got to get back to the basics and be about we and not just about me that's really who he is and I spent Moses interview trying to draw him out this was good so you could see him yeah this is good

I loved it John O'Brien thank you for bringing this this walking memorial this iconic, this icon living, Mr. Andrew Young. Thank you for coming, brother. Thank you for having me. That's right. And check out the dirty work on, it's a peak out, right?

MSNBC. Globally. On MSNBC globally. Thank you, brother. Thank you. And thank all of your audience. Yes, sir. This is college on the radio.

Oh, woo! I like that. That's a word. Yeah. If you didn't have money to go to college, listen in. That's right. Yeah. Thank you.

It's the breakfast club. Some donkey today's just saw themselves. I've been watching, Charleman. What's ready for you? I never heard a donkey other day. What is it? I'm a donkey. Say it again, Shaolin.

Yeah. You are a dog. Everything that Charlemagne is saying is true. Yes, donkey today goes to a 63-year-old Florida woman named Marina Gonaga. Now, what does your young? Uncle Shala always tell you about the great state of Florida. Say it with me. They're craziest people in America come from the Bronx and all of Florida.

And today is no exception, even though I'm not going to lie. Okay, Marina did something that I always tell y'all to do. I always tell y'all to do your prison math. Okay, do your jail math. Before you do something, before you jump out the window and commit a crime, always ask yourself, how much is this going to cost you? Okay, everything from bond to lawyer. and especially the time if you're sentenced.

Can you afford to do what it is you're about to do? Now, some people just move off emotion and they just act. Okay, they just go. But some people move off strategy. They ask questions. They plan things out. Those are the people that I respect. Those are the people that are truly dangerous.

You know how in the comic book world we say Batman can beat anyone with prep time? That's how I feel about people who prep before they do a crime and calculate the prison math in their head. Okay, they calculate the jail math. in their head. See, there is a part of me who respects what Marina did even though she's dead wrong. Okay. Well, damn it, Uncle Charlotte, the suspension is killing me. Will you tell me what she did already? Well, according to an arrest of affidavit obtained by law and crime, an officer was dispatched to an undisclosed location to respond to an argument between two people regarding stolen property. Okay. When the cops got there, Marina told them she came to the location

to retrieve stolen shoes from a 72-year-old. year old, an unidentified woman. And at some point during the encounter, Marina allegedly turned to her officer and asked them in Spanish, how much would DeBahn be if I smacked her? See?

This is Batman prepping. Once again, she turned to the officer and asked the officer, how much would DeBan be if I smacked her? Now, it doesn't say what the officer responded, but Marina must have thought she could afford it because she walked up to the 73 year old and proceeded to smack him in the face.

Okay. See, one thing about me, I respect everybody's choices. I may not agree with the choice you make, but I respect when someone makes a calculated choice because when you choose to do something, then to me, you have also chosen the consequences of what comes with that choice. Marina did her dirt in front of the police. She even asked the officer, how much would the bond be if I smacked her? And then she went and handled her business. So that means she got to handle these consequences.

consequences, okay? The same way. Now, what I don't respect is that the person she smacked was 72. Now 72, not the same 72 it used to be. A lot of these 72 year olds got that elder scrimp, they will put you on your ass, but that is still considered elderly. And Marina, you 63, okay? Even though you can get, you know, discounted meals at I hop, there is absolutely no reason for you to be smacking a 72 year person in the face over no damn stolen shoes. See, I respect you being cold and calculated and making a choice. But over some damn shoes. I need to know what kind of shoes they were Okay, the person was 72, so I know they ain't

No heat, okay, if they weren't Michael Jordan's in 1998 NBA finals, the Air Jordan 13s or the Nike Air Yeezy One prototypes, I don't see the point of the smack, okay, where they did a Nike Back to the Future joints, the Flew Game Jordans, and I'm talking about the ones Michael actually wore in the game. If not, I don't see what shoes could be worth it between the 63-year-old

and the 72-year-old. Maybe it wasn't the shoes, maybe it was the principal. All I'm saying is when you make decisions like this at least let it be worth it, especially when you're already out on bond for resisting arrest and battery on a law enforcement officer. Oh, damn. Yeah, Marina was out on bond for resisting arrest and battery on a law enforcement officer. But that didn't stop her from doing some prison math, doing some jail math in her head, and calculating that smack in this 72-year-old woman was absolutely worth it.

Her bond was $1,000, but you still have to factor in, you know, fighting the case. And something tells me that she cannot afford an attorney. But one will be provided for her. Please, uh, let Marina go Naga get the sweet sounds of the hamletones. Oh, no. You are the donkey. Mm-hmm. Oh, the day.

Mm-hmm. Oh, yeah. Yeah. Always do your jail math, ladies and gentlemen. Okay. Jail math is probably the easiest map to do nowadays. I know that math that my kids be bringing. at home is complicated.

But when you're in a situation, all you got to do is just think about it. Is it worth it? Can I afford to do what it is? I'm about to do. I like the question. I like that question, though. How much would I get if I slay?

You know, how much would the bond be of a lot of sleep? You got to calculate a little differently. But that's why she asked anyway. She's like, ah, you know, because I'm already up in, you know, I'm already in the rear. You know what I'm saying? what's another couple

stacks if I smack her because you know she need to be smacked now I don't respect her smack in an elderly she's elderly too but just not on the same elderly level you know yeah

levels to elders I mean listen she made a calculated decision to calculate the choice I get it so all I ever ask of y'all is to do your jail map if you feel like you can afford it and do your business

and the discount in the discount in IHOP is 55 and plus when you 55 that's when you get the discount yeah she's 63 so she's got those discounts I check just in case All right. Well, thank you for that donkey today. Morning, everybody. It's DJ Envy.

Just hilarious. Salameen Nagu. We are the Breakfast Club. Law and the Rose is here as well. And we have a special guest in the building, CNN anchor, senior political correspondent and host of News Night with Abby Phillip. Ladies and gentlemen, Abby Phillip. How are you? I'm good. I'm good. I'm hanging in there.

New book out. A Dream Deferred. Jesse Jackson in the Fight for Black Political Power. I'm from South Carolina. So I completely understand Jesse Jackson and why he deserves all the praise. But why did you decide to write this book? I think that there are a lot of people who have no idea that he ran for president, honestly. And if they know that he ran for president, they probably don't have any idea that he came second in the Democratic nomination in 1988. So he was the runner up.

and before Obama, there was Jesse Jackson. And I think this chapter really is more important now than ever. Back in the 80s, I think people didn't have any way to know that what Jesse Jackson did really mattered in the long term. But it clearly mattered because had he not run, Obama wouldn't have been the nominee. How do you not run? I don't know that you would have like a Bernie Sanders or an AOC or even a Zoran Mamdani. I mean, these are people who are running on basically the same platform that Jesse Jackson ran on. And he really transformed democratic politics, not to mention registering millions of voters,

and putting in place a lot of the people that you know, people like Donna Brazil, Mignon Moore, and so many others who are leaders in the Democratic Party, they are all there because of Jesse Jackson. In the back of your book, The Praises. You say, like the first one talks about how he, you say, like the first one talks about how he, he doesn't tell Jesse Jackson doesn't get credit for how influential in American politics as he was. What credit do you want people to give him after they read your book? Yeah, I mean, I think that he transformed the structure of the Democratic Party that made it easier for outsiders to come in and disrupt the system. I think that's really what his original

goal was when he was running for president. He was basically saying to the Democratic Party, you have to take us seriously as black voters and not just black voters, but all kinds of other voters. He brought Arab Americans into the voting process. He insisted on women being on the ticket. That's why Democrats had a woman on the ticket in 1984. He insisted on Asian Americans being part of the political process. So what he was arguing for was a political system that actually takes everybody seriously. And I do think we're closer to that now than we were in the 80s and he deserves a lot of credit for that. But I also think, you know, this is not about any kind of judgment about what you know or don't know about this particular chapter of

history. But it's, it's important to know that Jesse Jackson, like so many other of these leaders in our history, they had a lot of chapters. And this was a really significant chapter. I mean, he ran for president two times. He almost won the nomination. He, during one of these campaigns, And he went to Syria and Cuba and brought prisoners of war back to the United States. I mean, he was doing a lot of things that if candidates were doing that today, we would be like, what? Is that real? But he doesn't get a lot of credit for.

And I think a lot of it is because it was the first time that so many Americans had ever seen a black man try to do what he did. And I think it's important to remember how much of a, you know, just a barrier breaker he was at that time. What was the single biggest myth or misconception you discovered in your reporting about either of those campaigns that you wanted to correct? That he was only running as a black candidate for black voters. I think that's the biggest misconception. He was obviously very interested, motivated by the desire to make sure that black people utilize their power, not just cast a ballot, but had leverage to get changes on the,

the platform, policy, things that mattered to their day-to-day lives. But he was also in Missouri with white farmers. He was also in San Francisco with Asian American activists. He had, that's why he called it the Rainbow Coalition. I think people remember him as being the candidate for black people, but he actually brought, as he said he would, a rainbow of people into the political process. And he does not get very much credit for how much appeal he had among white voters, especially when he ran the second time around. There's this great picture I have in the book of him at a rally with a bunch of white farmers in like their overalls. And they all have paper bags on their heads with their eyes cut off because they're trying to hide their faces from the feds who were trying to basically foreclose on their farms. And there's Jesse Jackson in the background with all of these white,

white people, rallying alongside them. And that's, for me, an iconic photo that kind of shows that he had the same energy for our community as he did for all of those other people. And he was arguing to them, look, we have, the people who are trying to divide us along racial lines are trying to make you think that you don't have as much in common as a working class black person. And that's a lie. And then a lot of people, diminish that part of his campaign because it's easier to sort of just put him in a box of he was just a black candidate for black people.

I wonder where he fell short because you know, you talk about a lot in the book about the unlikely coalition he put together. It seemed unlikely back then, but now it's like the norm, right? Exactly. The President Obama did or what the VP tried to do. I mean, all candidates tried to do it. Where did he fall short back then, you think? There were a lot of things that happened.

I think some of them were his own mistakes and I write about those in the book. I mean, he had a very big, controversy. Or the Jewish slur? Yeah, he used to, he used a slur against Jews in private, and then it became public. And he had a hard time figuring out how to deal with it and was slow in addressing it. And that really dogged him for, especially for the 1984 campaign, but it had an impact on 88 too. I think the other part of it was that he was a true outsider candidate. He had almost no establishment support. You know, he was like what Bernie Sanders was in

2016, where nobody wanted to touch him among establishment Democrats. And so it was harder for him to build a real campaign that had the infrastructure that he needed to take advantage of the momentum when he did encounter momentum. But I would say the other thing is that he was completely discounted as a candidate. I mean, I went back. and I read virtually everything that was written about Jesse Jackson and those two campaigns. And the way they talked about him as if he was a gadfly candidate, they really did not take him seriously in the media. And back in that time, there was no way to bypass the mainstream media.

And I do think a lot of times if he were running today, I mean, he was such a master of the press, of narrative, of really breaking through, but there was no internet. And if he had had that, I think it would have been a different story because so much of his message just never got to people. All right, we have more with Abby Phillip. When we come back, don't move, it's the

Breakfast Club. Good morning. It's so silly in me to act like I don't need. When I said, you have to walk. I'm telling you be young. Can you come pick? Everybody is DJ NV. Jess hilarious. Charlamine Nagu. We are the Breakfast Club.

Lauren the Rose is here as well. kicking in with CNN Anchor and host of News Night with Abby Phillip, Abby Phillips. Shalemay. One of the few black women on cable news with their own show, especially you, because, you know, you have your own ringboat collision that you bring together every night. That's one way of putting it. With all of these different voices, do you feel like you get a lot of that? A lot of criticism.

Look, I don't want people to misunderstand this. I am not at all saying that I am at the caliber of people like Jesse or anybody else who's really putting their body on the line to make the world a better place. But what you do is important. I play a role. Like we all have a role and this is mine.

And in a way, yeah, people are very easy to be like, well, she shouldn't give this person a platform. She shouldn't do this. She shouldn't do that. And I do think it's super easy to say that when you're just at home

like watching the clips on your phone. And this, I've been covering politics a long time. this is a time in our like political life where we have to really know what's going on. And we have to know what everybody is saying on all sides of the issue. Because I don't think that ignorance has served anybody well. And particularly, I get a lot of criticism from the left, from people who are like, why does she have MAGA people on the show?

And it's like, well, you should know. what they're saying. Yeah, I agree. Because just so you know, half the country voted for Trump and for Trumpism. And it's not helpful to be completely unaware of what is happening in those media ecosystems. So I personally think it's super important. And I want the debate. Like, we need to have that debate.

I wanted to be right there out in the open. And I also think that it's important for people on both sides to practice being challenged. Because what we found on the show is that a lot of people are not used to being challenged. And when they have somebody literally staring them in the face saying, I disagree with you. For some people, they're like really taken aback. Like they don't really know how to deal with that, how to counter it, how to be quick, how to respond. And I think that is a really important skill in our politics that we can go back and forth on the issues. And we can really hash it out.

And I, you know, I'll take the criticism from all sides, but I am very proud of what we do because I think that very few people are willing to do it. Very few people are willing to take the chance of even being criticized. And I don't mind it. Like, that's part of the job. What about, because I know with your show, there's some moments that are like very hard hitting, right? Yeah. What about when that becomes like too much for you? Because I've seen people step away from those debate-style shows because personally it becomes too much and it's triggering for them, especially for black women.

How do you kind of, because you get back up and do it again the next day? Like, what is your? That's my responsibility. I unfortunately can't step away, but I understand when people do. And I actually think that is totally good and healthy. I think it's important to know your limits. And you know what? The good news about me not being able to step away is that it's my show.

And I can draw the lines when I need to draw the lines. And if you watch, as I know you do, every night. You've seen the times when I've had to draw some lines at the table. And I don't do it that often because I want it to be not, not that common because when I do, it's like when your mom, you know, really tells you it's time to stop.

That's kind of how I want it to be where it's not like that happens all the time, but you know that when I've reached my limit, it's the end. That's the limit. And I think that I can, because I'm the host, I can draw those lines around the kind of conduct that I will accept at the table.

And I have control over who shows up and who doesn't. And so for me, I take that on the weight of having to show up every single day. But I don't discount any person saying, I need to take a break. I need a moment because I think that's actually healthy for all of us, that we should take care of ourselves and our own well-being, even while we try to stay engaged. And I fully support that. And I also will say, Lauren, that I think there are definitely people who cross the line.

And that's part of the dynamic that is not within our control. And that's okay. I mean... I think I know one. Well, look, I mean, the more, maybe the most famous one was the time. Julia Michaels? You cannot tie imperialism and racism and slavery to just one race, which is pretty much what every single exhibit does. But why is this in the Smithsonian? So it's, look, it's, it's been

completely captured. First of all, I don't think we don't. First of all, we don't have time to litigate all of this. We don't because then you're going to lose the argument. And if everything is racialized, just like you're trying to do to me now. You brought up slavery. And you brought up the question of whether you did, you brought up whether or not slavery in the United States is about race. The answer is yes. Slavery in the United States is about race. Because that's not what I said. So what are you talking about?

Well, yeah, there was Jillian Michaels. But I, you know, I'll say honestly, Jillian Michaels crossed the line in the sense that she said something that was kind of embarrassing. And we addressed it. But we never said to her, you're not welcome back. Yeah, and I don't think she crossed the line either. I just think she just wasn't informed. Yeah, that was, that's her.

She made a decision. not to want to come back. But yeah, the thing about that was that she actually was talking about something that was important for people to be aware of was actually happening. Because right after she said what she said about slavery and how it's overemphasized at museums and then the Smithsonian, guess who said the same thing? The president. So if you had watched our show a couple of days before, you would have known what was coming. And it's not just that she said it, but the president said it. And then it actually became the policy that they're trying to implement at the White House.

So I thought it was actually super important that that was put out there because I think people were not aware of the extent to which slavery was the core thing that they were mad about in terms of how it was being represented in our museums. So she, again, I think you're right. Like, I don't think that we, I just would describe that as crossing the line, but we addressed it as an important conversation that needed to be factually addressed. But there was another incident with a person who was on the show who said to another guest that, a Muslim guest, that their pager would go off. To many. It was a reference to the Israeli, they'd like put bomb materials and pagers of the Houthi terrorists. and they went off. If you don't want to be called Nazis, stop doing it.

You're called an anti-Semite more than Holes's table. Yeah. And people are there in, no, by me. I never called you an anti-Semite. I mean, I'm not saying her saying, I'm a support of the Palestinians. I'm used to it. Well, I hope your beeper doesn't go off. The thing is, is that-

Oh, wow. You should not. No, I said, I should be killed. No, I did not say that. That was an actual line that was crossed, because you wishing death on a guest on the show is completely on a question. acceptable. And he was told, and I said publicly on the show, he was not invited back. And so

there are lines that are crossed, and I think people understand that I'll draw them when they need to be drawn. But I also think that we want to have real conversations. Sometimes they get a little bit messy, and that's okay. But I also think, you know, disrespecting people in a way that is inhumane or, you know, just there are some lines that we don't want to cross and we'll draw those lines publicly and I'll let everybody know what's going on. But for the most part, we're not, we're trying to encourage speech, not trying to squelch it. If Jesse Jackson, right, was able to actually become president, get in office, just do things for people that he cared about. How would Barack Obama's presidency have been different? Kamala Harris just on this run feeling like she has to dodge certain things

and can't speak straight to black people. How would all of that be different if he had been able to get in office and do what he was doing before he was voted president? Or not voted president? That's really interesting. It's such an interesting question. I mean, I think one of the reasons

that Vice President Harris and Barack Obama have had to present a certain way to the American public is the perception that a broad swath of the electorate, especially white voters, won't take a black candidate seriously

unless they are very buttoned up, have the resume all lined up, the whole thing. And that's accurate, right? That, like, we all understand that. You kind of have to clear a higher bar in order to even be let in the door. And I do wonder if the country had successfully elected a black president who was running on a progressive platform 30 years ago,

whether they would have that same burden. And I don't know. maybe they would not have. You know, one of the things about Jesse Jackson is that his fluency in a wide range of issues, as somebody who never was elected to political office, who came out of the segregated South, who came out of a civil rights tradition,

he was right up there with all the other candidates. On the debate stage, talking about foreign policy, talking about economic policy, Giving speeches, I mean, I would talk to people who would say that they would give him, you know, like a 30-minute briefing and he would go in there and he would weave a whole speech around an issue. He could take information in and very quickly turn it around into something that was compelling to an audience. And so he had a kind of intellect that was not very respected at the time. And I do think that, you know, if the country had elected a black president, I think candidates today who are running, who are like Kamala Harris or Barack Obama, would not have to do so much to show white Americans in particular that they're qualified and that they have the basic, you know, qualifications to fit the job.

I think that added burden is one of the reasons that it's hard. then to turn around and say to those same candidates, well, you've got to be authentic because that same authenticity is what they get knocked for early on in their career. So it is, I'm not suggesting that it's easy. I think it is difficult. You have to be able to do both things. And actually, I would say Obama actually did both things pretty well. He had, he was incredibly credentialed, but he was incredibly authentic in the communities where he needed to be authentic in. And I do think that it is possible to do it, but it is absolutely a high, bar and it's a higher bar still to this day because we've only done it once elected a black

person to the highest office in the land and so there's still a lot that has to be dealt with in terms of people's preconceived notions of what people of color can do at high levels of political office my last question when um when cameron took a sip of pink horsepower on your show like you just took a sip of that right and he were going to bring this and then when cam said he was going to get some cheeks after your interview. Did you understand what was happening in that moment? Is there something known in the industry about how did he treated his artists? So I'm going to get some cheeks after this horse power drink. I knew that we needed to end the interview. Obviously, I knew we needed to end the interview. We were up against the end of the show

and we didn't, we had to get to a certain time. So, you know, I had to land that plane and I did. And look, I mean, it was ridiculous, but as we know, that was the point. And the person who had to transcribe the show afterwards ask you what that meant. What did you mean you had to get some? Well, we all were just like, what just happened? Yeah. You know, I mean, whatever.

I'm not going to give this much more oxygen because I know that's part of the point. I know he was here a little while ago talking about it. But I'm sure he did. And he said before it wasn't like it wasn't personally anything with you. He just felt like the network only hits him up for things that aren't about what he does outside of all of that. All I will say is that we were told by his team that he wanted to talk about this, not the other way around. So that's we obviously, we don't book people about things they don't want to talk about. So we would never bring someone on the show and force them to talk about something.

that they didn't agree to talk about. So I don't know. I mean, everybody, we have free will. We can do what we want. But like I said, I knew immediately. Actually, we knew pretty early on in the interview that we needed to get out as quickly as possible. Why? I mean, it was from the get-go.

You can read the room. You can read the room. Yeah, I'm not new to this. Like, I know from the beginning when somebody is not interested in, being interviewed. And so we knew we needed to get out, but it was just a timing thing, you know, when you're at the end of the show.

And he was actually supposed to be on the show earlier, but was late. And so we were just figuring out how quickly we could hand off to Laura Coates at 11 o'clock. Now put you in a good class, though. Cam's got some really good interviews with news anchors. Absolutely not. Anderson Cooper, Bill O'Riley.

Now, Abby Phillips. He got some great moments with people. No dip set on the playlist no more, huh? Absolutely not. We are not. That is not a class of saying, I want to be in. He said Abby was his favorite. I asked him which one. And as a Cooper 60 Minutes snitching interview.

The Bill O'Reilly, when he was like, you mad, you mad. Oh, Abby Phillam, he said, yos. Because he sold out a pink horse power. I'm happy for him. I guess. I'm happy for him. But, you know. Do you take stuff like that personally when it happens? No, absolutely not.

Not personally, but just like, why you, why my show? I'm a black woman. I'm here on CNN. Like, why me? No, I, you know what? Let me just, I'll just say this because I don't, I've never talked. I've actually never talked about this before. But when that happened, our booker who booked that interview was a young woman.

And she was very upset about it. And I said to her, afterwards. And I said to my entire team, I was like, this is not going to be a reason that we play it safe. We are not going to take this as a moment to say, oh, this happened to us. We can't have people like that on our air again. I don't believe in that. I think that we are out here trying to hear from people who are interesting and different. And maybe sometimes it goes left. But I'm not. not going to, this is, we're not going to come down on you for booking this interview because we want to bring interesting people onto the show. And it was important to me to convey to

them that we're not going to go into a little ball and be like, oh my God, this went viral. And this was embarrassing. No, this too shall pass. Like, he had his moment. It was fine. I don't really care. Do I wish he didn't do that on the air? Yeah. It was great. But, but, but I'm not using it as an excuse to say that we're going to play it safe on television because that's not what we're doing here. So, um, you know, you book a fantastic job. Fantastic booking. What's her name? Fantastic booking. Okay. Does she book your show every night? No, she, she, she was, unfortunately, she moved to a different city, so she's no longer with us. But she was over right. No, but we, listen, we, I, I, I, I, it wasn't just her. I told her boss too. Yeah. And I was like,

we are not, we are not going to treat this like some kind of major mistake because it was not. It is television. And sometimes in television, you have guests and you don't know what they're going to say. And the whole point of TV is not to be predictable and boring. That's right. So let's not do that. I thoroughly enjoy your bookings. I thoroughly enjoy your show.

Make sure you all watch Abby Phillip on CNN Newsnight every night at 10. And then there's table for five comes on at 10 o'clock at a.m. on Saturday. And don't forget to buy the book. Yes, a dream deferred. It's out right now. Jesse Jackson in the fight for black political power. It's Abby Phillip. It's the Breakfast Club.

You got a positive note? I do have a positive note, man. I want y'all to develop an attitude of gratitude. And give thanks for everything that happens to you, knowing that every step forward is a step toward achieving something bigger and better than your current situation. Breakfast Club, bidsies. You're on finished or y'all done? This is an I-heart podcast.

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