The Breakfast Club - THROWBACK INTERVIEW: Malcolm-Jamal Warner, Candace Kelley & Weusi Baraka On The N-Word, Vulnerability, New Podcast + More

Episode Date: July 22, 2025

We honor the life and legacy of the late, great Malcolm-Jamal Warner. A visionary whose artistry transcended the screen and touched the soul. Actor. Producer. Writer. Poet. His creative spirit was boundless, his impact immeasurable. Thank you for your brilliance, your voice, and your love for the culture. Rest in Power, Malcolm-Jamal Warner 🕊️YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@BreakfastClubPower1051FMSee omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

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We got some special guests in the building from the Not All Hood Podcast. We have Malcolm Jamal Warner, Way U C Baraka, and Candice Kelly. Welcome! Thank you, hey good to see you. How are the brothers and sisters feeling? We good. Good. Life is good. Yeah, good morning.

Good morning. Absolutely. Yeah, last time I was here, y'all just moved into this. You was the first interviewer? Yeah. You was the first interviewer in our new studio. That's right. Wow.

Man, I love the name, Not All Hood, nah. Yeah, man. Who came up with that? That was what you see. Yeah, I don't even remember for real, for real. Like, I was just like, nah, nah, Malcolm and I have been talking about just the concept of the podcast and how the diversity and who we are and also who we're not, right?

So I was like, nah, nah. Yeah, it feels like that when somebody say, all black people from the hood, nah. Nah, nah, nah. Exactly, nah, nah, nah. Exactly. Is it that word somebody say all black people from the hood Is it that word a lot of people come from poor and disenfranchised environments, but we are not our environment like It's just that we come from a bunch of different environments Yeah, you know and I would feel like you know a lot of media been portraying us either like you're a hip-hop Well pill it you're hip hop or pop culture, right?

And nah, we more than that. It's funny that you actually say that, Charlamagne, because I grew up in L.A. in the jungle. And my mother used to say to me, Malcolm, we live in the jungle, we're not of the jungle. So she was very clear on me having my sights further than just my neighborhood. This is why she put me in theater, and was always trying to find things for me to do to keep me from just going to school and just hanging out.

But it was that, it was a certain mindset that, you know, she instilled in me like, okay, yeah, we're here, but you know, this doesn't have to define us. Yeah. And you know what? We are often recognized before we enter into any room and judge, right? And sometimes you get the question that, you know,

means you really don't belong here. So when that comes- Can I help you? Yeah, right, can I help you? Right, right, can I help you? Right, right, can I help you or have I seen you be here before or what are you doing in this neighborhood? Yes, that's the one. That's the one, right?

What are you doing in this neighborhood? This is my neighborhood. Why are you jogging here? Yeah, why are you jogging here, right? That used to happen to my father. He would jog in the neighborhood and all the white neighbors would stop him when we first moved in.

And they would keep on stopping him. This is back in the 70s. So he finally just went to the police station and said, I just need to introduce myself so that when you guys stop me, you know who you are. And it stopped. But that's kind of an example of what it means when people perceive you beforehand

and what you have to do to go outside of the box to keep on proving who you are over and over again. So this really is just an ongoing conversation that we have Malcolm likes to call a safe space, which it is just to say really what we want about anything about our experiences in America. And that's really kind of key to it too. We have people that are from diverse backgrounds, whether they're from the Caribbean or whether they're from all, you know, Africa, but you come to America and there's kind of a thread

and those are the types of stories that we're sharing to really change this mass narrative that's already out there about us. Create a shift. Is the term hood negative though? When people say hood, sometimes it comes off as negative. I don't take it as a negative term. Is it a negative term?

No, and I think, you know, part of the, you know, the idea of not all hood is, hood is not a negative term. Hood is part of the community. Like when we speak of the black community, we always tend to refer to it as if it's a model. That's right. But there are all these different lanes to the black community, all these levels, all

these different lanes. And oftentimes, we don't have a space where we can actually discuss, acknowledge, and deal with all of those levels, all those lanes. So the hood is not a bad thing. We're not all, yes, we are hood, but we're not all hood. And I think part of it is the media tends to put more focus on one aspect of the black community. Thus we get all the stereotypes and preconceived ideas. tends to put more focus on one aspect of the black community.

Thus we get all the stereotypes and preconceived ideas. And hood comes from like neighborhood. Neighborhood, yeah. Right, and De La said it, you know, they call it the hood because we're not neighbors anymore. You know what I mean? A lot of times we're not communicating with each other. But we're trying to change that.

I did get that question a lot though. What's that? You have been on a podcast, isn't hood negative? So I understand where you're coming from, but just like they said, it's a neighborhood. I mean, I live in a place where I'm next to a lot of Indian neighborhood, Jewish neighborhood. You can still call it the hood.

People also associate the word hood with just us. Which really, yeah, with blacks. So it's just one of those things. It's kind of some damage that the media, the pop culture, the news has done and really trying to define who we are. Yeah, I never took it as negative. It was always, I'm going back to the hood,

meaning I'm going back home to my neighborhood. Right, right, right, exactly. Wherever it was, I'm going to play basketball in the hood, which was my neighborhood, you know what I mean? I never took it as, oh my gosh, there's a place. No, I never took it at that. I know a lot of people do, but that was always just like going home.

You know? Yeah, yeah. And you know, we were talking about this yesterday, that also when we talk about being African American, we talk about the trauma that's associated. Like that's really all, you know, we have diabetes and high blood pressure and we're dying and the infant mortality rate,

but we're happy people too. But we make it to the news when it's bad. You know, we often make it to the news when it's bad. And so that's another thing that I think this podcast does, I think for the three of us is just show the joy and what it's like being black in spite of, and because of the things that are going out there in this 2024.

Lord have mercy. Lord have mercy. But yeah. How did the three of y'all come together? How did y'all get together? Look, we were looking to the left. Yo. It's everything on you, huh, Mr. Brown? I know, I know.

Right? Well, you and I have been friends for, geez. For a minute, a long minute. 20 plus years. We used to both be at the National Black Theater Festival in Winston-Salem. And Wayesh and I met in 1999. And we had put on the first poetry jam there.

And that turned out to be one of the biggest attractions at the theater. We used to call it the Midnight Poetry Jam. So after all day of theater, you know, in every imaginable performance space in the city, then people would come back to our venue and we would pack out at Midnight Poetry Jam. It would just be open mic starting at midnight

and we'd go to like 2, 2.30. And it was a big attraction. Yeah. The festival. And then we just kept hanging out. Yeah. Yeah. And then I know Link with Candice from, I was doing sort of community organizing and sort of,

it was a, event with, Who was it? Who was it? Was it Juneteenth? Yeah, yeah. Yeah, who was it? It was Juneteenth. Was it Juneteenth? Yeah, yeah. Juneteenth, right. Very timely.

In Morristown, New Jersey. And we connected there, just sorta linked. And when Malcolm and I decided that we were gonna do this podcast, we were like, yo, we need some different voices. And I pulled her in. Yeah, yeah. And I do a lot of work, a lot of commentating on various, mostly legal cases.

I fill in for Roland Martin too, Roland Martin unfiltered. And so I'm always running my mouth. And when I got on with them, I think I ran my mouth enough for them to say, you know what, you want to keep talking with us? I was like, I actually do. So, you know, really. And that first conversation, we talked about everything from the N word to twerking to music, I mean, we were just on for a long time.

It was just a nice, everybody was testifying. You know what I mean? It really was, it was just a good way to connect and get to know each other, and the conversation has been going on ever since. But the dope thing was when Way and I first started talking, you know, we're both older fathers. So the initial idea was to do a podcast

from the perspective of older black fathers. So when we first met with Candice, it was as a producer to produce the show. That's right. And then we had that meeting was like 90 minutes. And this is the show. Yeah, we're like, we need to add Candice as a host and expand the concept from just the black father perspective.

And it turned into a two world. Yeah, and I think your wife, because your wife is in the background like, that sounds good, that sounds good. Yeah. What are some of the topics you guys will be discussing? Black fatherhood. Yeah, black fatherhood.

I'm sure you'll talk about it. Being older fathers with younger children. How you guys handling that? Yo. What you in, what is your youngest? How old is your youngest? So youngest, we only have one. Cause I got a two year old, so.

Ooh, salute, good boy. And then I got a 22 year old. What do y'all call older black fathers? So I mean, I'm 53, I got a nine year old. Yeah. Cause I got six, he got four. I'll be 46 in a couple weeks. My youngest is two, I got a two year old,

a five year old, eight year old, and my oldest is 15. Yeah, yeah, so y'all started around when we started? Yeah, I'm 53 and my daughter just turned seven. Okay, okay. Y'all can have a conversation. Yeah, right. We're talking about it. Like those days where they be on go-go.

You know what I mean? And you gotta just ramp your energy up and make it happen. You know what I mean? That's crazy you say that. My homeboy told me that a long time ago. Cause you know all my homeboys had kids way younger than I did.

And they was like, man you gonna wait till you 30 plus 40 to have kids? You gonna be running around? Your knees gonna be hurting? I'm like no it won't. Yeah stay off of that. Right exactly. But doesn't some good come with that? You being older so to speak. you're gonna be running around, your knees gonna be hurting. I'm like, no, it won't. You'll stay off. Right? Exactly, exactly.

But doesn't some good come with that? You being older, so to speak. Yeah, you know, being a father and not being 21. Not being 21. Having grown through self that you have to go through. Oh yeah, my last, my two youngest get a version of me that did not exist 10 years ago, 15 years ago, you know? Yeah.

I spent more of my adult life in long-term relationships, more years of my adult life in long-term relationships than not. And my wife and I have been together eight and a half years and not more than two days go by that I don't give thanks to the universe for giving me the wisdom and fortitude to have waited as long as they did.

So a lot of people are like, he's never gonna get married. And I think at some point I probably thought. Like we used to have these conversations, like, yo, they looking at us like we damaged goods. Like, what you mean, you 30, you don't got no kids, you're not married, nah, he got a problem. Yeah. You know what I mean?

It's the best thing, I know for me it's the best thing I could have done. I would not have, I definitely would not have been as effective a husband and father had I done this any earlier with anybody else. That is such a great conversation. You never hear men have, like that's a conversation you always hear, you know,

women have, but so you actually waited, like you were actually waiting for the right person. You know how many bullets? I've got a brother. I've been doing this since 13. On TV since 13. Word, word. You know, I neod my way out a lot. A lot of shots. But your circumstance was different though because you didn't know if people wanted to be with you or they wanted to be with Steele.

No, you know what, I mean, there was that, because I've been doing it for so long, I've been really blessed with a great sense of discernment. So that was never my issue. To be completely transparent, my thing about marriage was like, yo, I'm not getting married and then giving a chick half of my stuff because I messed up.

So I was very clear that even though there were situations that were really pressuring, if you will, that kind of marriage, I was like, nah, because I knew me. I knew that I wasn't going to, I wasn't giving half of my trap because I messed up. How about you, Uwe? It was about just being patient. Like I know me and I know that like

not everybody is gonna be able to deal with me as a community organizer who like really understands that the people around me that are close to me are gonna be okay. My work in life is to make sure that other people are gonna be okay. So sometimes I'm a little hard on them people that are close, right? I'm gonna get out and they're gonna have to take a back seat sometimes, right?

That was part of it. And a big part of it was raising my child, the idea of me getting married and having a child, you gotta be special. Man, word, word. You gots to be special. So I love you, Shelly. Yeah, we have one show where we have these two and Lamar Rucker and I just sit back and I listen. I was like, there can be some people that are taking notes,

some women that are taking notes. Cause they really, I was like, this is some good, like you said, I don't hear that a lot. Not from men. Just talking about fatherhood and just the humility and how proud they are and then all the rules and lessons that they learned along the way while they were dating.

Oh boy. Yeah, it really was a note taking moment. It was good. You guys have boys or girls? Girls. Oh, yeah, girls. What else said that was kind of suspect? Girls.

It's different. It's different. It's way different. I got four. You got four girls? I got four girls. It's lovely, isn't it? I love it. Yeah, yeah.

I love it and I deserve it. That's what they say. All of it. All sides. How does that change you having girls? I got four girls. Charlamagne has four girls. How does that change you as a father?

I got two boys too though, but them girls change you. So I ask the universe for a girl first. So even before you got a girl, you asked for a girl first. I asked the universe for a girl first. I asked the universe for a girl first. I asked the universe for a girl first. I asked the universe for a girl first. I asked the universe for a girl first.

I asked the universe for a girl first. I asked the universe for a girl first. I asked the universe for a girl first. I asked the universe girls change you. So I asked the universe for a girl first. So even before conception, we were very clear we were having a girl. And I knew that I needed a girl first to kind of ease me into it because I have a pretty good idea of what kind of father I would be. So I needed a girl to kind of, you know, slow me down and warm, it softened me up, if you will. So for me raising my daughter, I came into fatherhood already with a certain maturity and certain understanding of male-female dynamics. And with a girl, all of that starts with the father.

So I've always, since she came, since I'd literally pulled her out of my wife, I've been focused on instilling in her the kind of love focused on you know instilling in her the kind of love that she is not going to have to go out in the world and try to find. Treating her with a level of respect at nine months old that she will that that that kind of loves normalized, right? That's always been my biggest thing. Like you see these girls out here who don't have great relationships with the poppers.

And you know, through our lifetimes, we've been with a lot of them, right? So I knew that the, for me, the biggest gift that I can give my daughter is a sense of self. So when she goes out into the world, she is not easily influenced by her surroundings. Amen. Right.

So since she was like two years old, someone says to her, oh you're so pretty, you're so cute, you're so beautiful. She'll say thank you and I'm smart too. That's how we run it. Like that's the normalization I want her to have in terms of how she sees herself and carries herself. Absolutely.

What you see? Yo, same thing. Like, you know, it's a humbling space, giving my daughter like a different kind of vocabulary that's empowering to her, so that when she interacts, she knows she walks and talks from position of power. Absolutely.

Have y'all started with the dance yet? You're cheerleading yet? Hold on, can you speak to that Candace? Yeah, yeah, I come from a family of three girls. And my father, I mean, really just the king of all things. They know all about my father. I told the story already today about my father. You know what I mean?

So that is very infused in me and my mother, too. Don't get me wrong. But since we're talking about fathers, all everything that he poured into me. And, you know, sometimes you're doing something. You're like, oh, that's my dad. What I did right there. That's my mom. Like, you can you know, when they poured into it, when you see you doing things that are just like what they did, and you don't even realize it.

So you don't even realize what the kids see and don't see. But really my parents really allowed me to see all of the right things. They really did. And parents generally are always right. I mean, really like it might be 20 years down the line. We try. I'm wrong a lot.

And my daughter reminds me that, bye bye. Maybe not. Yeah. Yeah. I'm wrong a lot and my daughter reminds me that, bye bye. Maybe not. Yeah. Yeah, it really is powerful to have a powerful father, to have a presence all the time, even when they're gone, still there. I think the funniest thing for girl dads is humbling, right?

Meaning, I was never into cheerleading or dance or any of those sports, but now when I take my daughters to dance, I be doing the dance moves. What you mean? Right, you mean? Yeah. Like, shoulders back,

and I be doing the dance moves. Right, right. It takes you out of that ego place where it's like, nah, I'm a tough dad, nah. Right, right. I'm a softy. Yeah, yeah. I think when my daughter was born,

I found myself crying all the time. Yeah. Yeah, yeah. I think when my daughter was born, I found myself like crying all the time. Like over like just simple shit. Be like, I had that touches me. No, like baby feet and baby dimples. I was like, what is? Oh, they're so cute. Man, open up a whole nother world. It's probably a stupid question, Way, but hey, poetry, you're laughing, Baraka,

you related to Raza? No relation. What? Wow. No relation. Okay. But salute to the Baraka family. Yeah, that's right.

I mean, all the great things, and to the elder OG, Iman, to know the Eldog e-mail no Mary Now father's day is around the corner Do you guys is father's day important to you guys as much and for you is it important as you because? For myself, I just just want to chill father's day. I don't need too much. This is a little barbecue the kids around That's all I care about father's day. What is it? What is it for you guys? That's all I care about Father's Day. What is it for you guys? Oh, we're gonna start with the girlfriend?

Oh, yeah, yeah. Well, so my father is passed a couple years ago. He died during COVID. But thank you so much. And so, but you know, my husband, so I was this morning, all right, we're doing dinner, right? Or we're doing that at the house? Or we're doing that, we're going out?

It's one of those things where I just like, as I tell my husband all the time, you know what? It's not the birthdays or the Christmas or the holidays that society has said, just be good to me on a regular Tuesday, we'll be good. But I do remember as my father and he got older, it was really important because everybody was all over the place.

Everybody goes in their own lives. So it was good to come back and give him that gift of time. Because at some point, you know, you don't need socks or clothes or TV or car. You don't need that. What you want is stuff that's really free time, respect, love, your energy, your opinion, all of that. So it's good to come together for all of those things that cost no money, especially as people get older.

My dad wants a scratch off ticket. Just give me a scratch off ticket. There you go. But you know what, he really wants to see you when you give it to him. You know what I mean? It's not the ticket. Yeah, he wants a scratch off.

Yeah, but if he wins, you gotta work that out. Yeah, we gotta work that out. Malcolm, are you afraid of being too honest and too vulnerable on these podcasts? Because you know, in this era, people get very loose on these podcasts. As we've seen. Yeah, if you have a certain image of you, do you even care about that? So it's interesting. So, you know, I've said that in interviews that this is, you know, the most vulnerable. And I've always been pretty transparent in my art and my poetry and music. But I don't worry about it.

I got a good taste of it just this week because we had our first episode dropped on Monday and we were having a conversation about the N-word and I had, you know, I made a statement about J. Cole. It's really interesting how many people were not listening to what I was saying and took my comments as I was hating on J. Cole. So it's things like that.

And then the way the Instagram, the Art of Dialogue. In other. Yeah, the way they worded it. That's the word we in. Right, so it was like, oh right, this is the reason why I stopped commenting on IG first thing in the morning. Malcolm J. Baldwin says he stopped listening to J. Cole

because J. Cole said the N word. Let's play the clip, let's insert the clip here so people understand, what are you talking about? Are you playing it in context? Oh, we're playing it in context because I'm sure we don't have the clip up. Do you have the clip? No, so we're in context, okay. Okay. Now people heard the clip. Dig Oh, we play it in context. Because I'm sure we don't have the clip up. Do you have the clip? No, so we're in context.

OK. OK. Dig it, dig it, dig it. So many people, they just ignore the fact that I said, I love J. Cole. And I said that most of my favorite emcees are guilty of the same thing. We're talking about perpetuating anti-black messaging

in our black music. So that was really my point. Yeah, I don't understand that. That's when they lose me. How was that anti-black, how was that N word, saying you don't like the N word anti-black messaging? Isn't the N word anti-black? That's what I'm saying.

My perspective is so much of our black music today, like you take the dope beats away and you just listen to the lyrics lyrically it's anti black message. Okay I get what you're saying. You know what I'm saying? And we talk about you know so much of you know hip-hop today that's trash and whatnot but you know as I said before they grew up listening to what we were listening to. So we are complicit in the parts of hip hop today that we don't like because they grew up listening

to us listening, listening to the content is the same. The skillset is just whack. That's true. Which is what makes it stand out more. But also they didn't listen to what we were listening to. No, what I'm saying, but they. But I think that um We also had a broader

We listen to music when there was more than just hip-hop hip-hop was not the the juggernaut Music that it is now, right? Okay Jazz like you would you know like we was rocking the salt hall notes, you know what I mean? And all these other things. Filled with power. Right. You know what I mean?

Like 80s pop music. Yeah, like we had these, a lot of other influences that I think the youth of today don't necessarily have, aren't necessarily being promoted. In terms of balance. Yeah, in terms of balance, yeah. I get exactly what you're saying, because even the other genres now are hip hop.

Right, I'm saying like, you know, it's countries, little bit of hip hop, you know what I mean? And so much of the hip hop that gets the shine, you know, it's the anti-black messaging. But that's- Very rarely, there are not many hip hop songs that are speaking love to our people. Most of it is very rarely. There are not many hip hop songs that are speaking love to our people. Most of it is very threatening.

But is that the artist or is that the industry? Both. Okay. And the end result is the same. The psyche on young black boys and girls is the same. Whether it's the... But if it's young black boys and girls is the same. Whether it's the, whether it's- But if it's young black boys and girls, that's on the parents.

Yeah. Sure, but all parents don't, all parents, there's a certain luxury that you and I have in terms of the time that we and our wives can spend with our daughters, right? But everybody, all families don't have that. So we're not talking about about psyche of young black kids who have their parents very involved in their lives and showing them balance we're talking about the the

ones who were but let's hold them accountable again like my fault this is the, this is like, this is the broadcast. Would you say J. Cole had the anti-black messaging? No, so for me, because nigga has become, it's become the staple in hip hop. Like, it's gotta be nigga and bitch. That's why I said in that clip, I think there should be a moratorium on both of those words in hip hop,

because at this point, it's corny, it's lazy, everybody is using it. So let's like you know there are so many brilliant writers and lyricists out there that it's like come on let's step our game up. We don't have to keep doing it. If everybody's doing it then come on do something different. So my thing with J Cole it just I just got to a point where I got tired of You know hearing inward being called inward in every hip-hop song. I'm listening to and I Mentioned J Cole because I love J Cole and he's such an incredible lyricist that when I hear him just gratuitously use either those words,

I'm like, ah, I mean, he kinda, you know. That I have to tune out. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Doesn't mean I like J. Cole or respect his- Artistry. His pin game any less. I just go, all right, ah, I gotta tune out. Cause it's not doing, it's not bringing me,

it's not feeding me. It's not. So what about the album, like, cause this is the album that I say in the future is gonna be two of the most important albums of all time. Kendrick Lamar, Mr. Morales and the Big Step, Jay-Z 444, the things that they're discussing on this album, black men going to therapy,

black men doing right by their women, issues with our father, daddy issues that we face. Like to me those themes are bigger than the language that they use. And even you look at somebody like Tupac. To me Tupac's themes were bigger than the language he was using.

People keep saying that about Tupac, but like, and I don't wanna get into a whole thing about Tupac, but I listened to his, I mean, he listened to his cataract. There's, there's Dear Mama, Brenda's Got a Baby, Keep Your Head Up,

and then everything else is, nah, not everything. There's changes, there's, you got a bunch of, but you know what this conversation sounds like? It sounds like, you know when you're younger and your father says, oh you listen to that hippity hoppity rap?

Because there's a lot of positivity, positive artists out there that are spittin', right? But when people listen to music, those same artists had the same problem. If you think about, Taleb Kweli never got on radio. Mos Def never got on radio. Tribe Called Quest hardly got on radio. We talk about a lot of those positive rappers.

It was the same thing back then. Those artists might have a record or two. Tyleb didn't get on radio till he did a record to Jay-Z hopped on a single just to get by. You know what I mean? That's a positive record though. That record's fire. But it took him a long time to get on record.

Mos Def and him didn't get really on radio till Miss Fat Booty. Miss Fat Booty. Miss Fat Booty. So a lot of those things that we talking about was the same thing. Common rarely got on radio. Miss Fat Booty. Miss Fat Booty. Miss Fat Booty. So a lot of those things that we talking about was the same thing. Common rarely got on radio. You know what I mean?

But it's the same thing. It's the same thing of what we push. Like back then, who was on radio? Biggie. That's right. T.I. You know those artists. But all of those brothers whose name had records

with socially redeeming value. But the records that were on radio were the... Like my dad used to always try to get me to listen to the honorable minister Louis Farrakhan. And I would, sort of reluctantly. When I heard Biggie say, deep like the mind of Farrakhan, I'm like, oh, that's the brother my daddy's always trying to get me to listen to.

So now I really listen. Right, he was speaking to you. Yeah, when I heard Chuck D say, Farrakhan's a prophet, I thank you all to listen to him. Like, oh, let me pay attention. So even with the language of a biggie or whoever, they can still deliver messaging that makes you get in the right direction. I agree, sure. Like Lauren says, what's the line?

Right, I add a, so you're ignorant to hear me, right? Listen, yeah. I'll try to get him to say it. And also, what I have to be mindful of as well is... Respectability politics. Not even that because that's a whole other conversation. Okay. Right.

But it's more, I realize that it's way more productive across the board and for my own energy and space, is instead of spending time talking about the trash, talking about the things that I don't like. And I think we're all guilty of it. We talk about the negative, but I'm trying to be more mindful, even in my conversations about hip hop, be mindful of, well, instead of talking about

the same thing, which is the negative, let me spend time highlighting what I like. I like what I love about hip hop. If I got to issue that piece. Let's talk about the Mumu Freshes and the Syrox. Right, Mumu Freshes. I write hard for Mumu Fresh all day. But even just that, like, yeah,

thinking about Norman Sine, it's kinda, I finally reposted on Instagram, like seeing these cats, I believe really need to have shine. Well, instead of complaining that they don't have shine, I got social media, like now I can actually, you know, give shine to those. And I've got a following, I've got a voice, you know, I've got integrity, a reputation for integrity going for me. So why not just use that and spend more time speaking about giving love to the things that make me feel good?

But I also think it's evolution too, right? Because I went to Hampton. When I used to drive to Hampton, I'm listening to Norrie because it's keeping me up. What, what, what? And I'm thinking I'm the biggest what? I'm the biggest stuff out there, right keeping me up. What, what, what? And I'm thinking I'm the biggest what? You know, I'm the biggest thug out there, right? But then when you get a little older,

you be like, ah, it's a little noise, right? It's early in the morning, let me turn on some music. I still like listening to it when I'm working out. I'm from the south, so I can work out. The workout, that's it. Crumbs and everything, you know? But I also grew up on Cudi Mop. Right, right.

Also grew up on Outkast. You know, I got- And I think, you know, it's, we've got more of a balance, right? As we get older, one, we've got, we've been exposed to a balance, right? As we get older, one, we've been exposed to more music, right? So it's a little different now. You know what I mean?

Like they still in the throes of what's hot, you know what I mean? How we access music is different now because they're just like, yo, you know, point and click. Right? And it's not necessarily about what's on the radio. It's about what they wanna listen to, and they've got direct access to that.

You know Candace, I want to ask from a woman's perspective, because you know what I found interesting, right? You know we have these conversations, but I will never forget Snoop Dogg and DMX's verses, right? When they did their verses, I think it was during COVID, and I remember thinking, oh this is going to be the night that boy they finally listen to Snoop and DMX, and it's going to be a woke cancel fest on Twitter. but there was people in the comments the same people I usually see Trying to cancel people loving it, right? Yeah So how does that make you feel knowing you came up in that era of the 90s? Is it conflicting that you know?

not at all and I'm right in the middle with them in terms of number one the n-word and just this whole idea of music and what it represents because I know, so I love Wu Tang. And when I listen to them, I get like a good energy out, not just workout, but when something goes wrong, sometimes that music allows you to let stuff out. That's right. You know, that you just couldn't get out in the day

when you're with your peers or when you're on the streets, you just in the car, loud with it. And then I also think it's a how were we brought up and what do we bring to the table? So the N-word for example, I mean, I don't know how you were introduced to it ever, but that's shaped probably what the word means to you. And same with me, probably same to you.

We all have different things that we bring to the table, just culturally. And I think that just shifts. And I'm a firm believer in the First Amendment like all the way, because once you start saying no here and no here, then I'm giving somebody else the authority to say no to me one day too. And I don't want that precedent. I don't want them saying, well, you can't say this and you can't say that just because of the content of it, or the context of it. We don't like it at all. It's like when they try to bring up rap lyrics,

when they go to jail and court, right? I mean, that doesn't make any sense. We all have the same equal first amendment rights and you should fight for them and use them equally. Let me ask you a question. Yeah. TikTaka yesterday, I seen online, she said the N word, right?

She got fired from her regular job. Oh, well this was the girl who was cooking. That young lady. Yes. And then in her comments she was like- this was the girl who was cooking. That young lady. Yes. And then her comments, she was like. She was also white, by the way. Yes. But that's a critical point.

That's a critical point. That's a point, yeah, yeah. That's a critical point. But this is where I'm gonna close with. She said on her TikTok that she didn't apologize because it was her first right amendment to say what she wanted to say, and she shouldn't have got fired.

What's your thoughts on somebody like that? It is her first right amendment. Yeah, but then there are three different rules. There's first amendment rules on TikTok. There's first amendment rules at her work. And then there's her own rules of what she believes about the N word. And all of them conflicted

and she got exactly what she deserved. She did. And that's what happened. That's why you do have to be careful with it, right? You can't be on TikTok saying it. I mean, this is a good example. Not being a white person. No, not being a white person. No, not being a white person.

No, no, you can't. So you just have to really understand how to use the First Amendment too. So for example, if you're the KKK, you can march anywhere in America. You just have to get the permit. You can't walk on your own. You have to follow the rules.

She didn't follow the rules. She didn't follow her own HR rules at work. And that was her problem. She got what she deserved. That's right. But you're Andy's Kelly Esquire. That's right. But you know, like you said,

it's also where you came from, right? Because New York, the N-word was a sign of endearment. Sure. What's up, my nigga? What's up, this? It was that. You know, you really didn't hear the extremes of it until I went to Hampton in the South,

and you'd be like, oh no, they not saying it as, hey. Right, right, right, right, right. And that's my line. Yeah, right, right. It's different ways. And that's sort of been part of my argument. For a lot of people, it's a term of endearment. It's love.

There are more interactions that are using the word that are about love than there are about disrespect. So, and yes, we know the history of it. We also know that that's mine. You know what I mean? But I also grew up reading stuff. I grew up, you know, a message to the black man by Elijah Muhammad,

an autobiography of Malcolm X, you know. A great book called From Niggas to God by Bill. I think every black man in America should read that. So it's always been, I've always been conflicted about using the word, because I don't use it as a term of indignity. I use it the way when Chris Rock showed me the difference between black people, I use it for that. Right. Right. There's a, I think last time I was here, I quoted Dr. Daniel Black,

and I'm going to quote him again. He says, why should I borrow a word from people who hate me when I'm trying to speak love to my brothers and sisters? Damn. Right? So I go back to Comrade. You know, the term Black Panther party used. Reggie Mason, you know, brought it back up to me. So I've been on this Comrade campaign.

Like, you know, if I'm trying to speak love to my brother, well Comrade, I get the idea of, you know, the N word is a term of endearment, but it's a colonizer's word. So this whole language is colonized. So for me, like, it's not our language. English is not our language. Sure. But I'm not going to use it. I'm at the point in my life where I question what's the sense in using a colonizer's word, which was a intentionally derogatory word to describe us, why do I wanna borrow that particular word and go through the hoops of, oh, it's positive.

So for me, and this is for me personally, I'm comrade, you know, and I use it in both scenarios. That's my comrade. Or these comrades. Go to them and say, I'm comrade now. Let me lean back, let me lean back. I see what you do now, get it, go.

Let's talk to you like that now. I talk to them, I talk to that anytime I want. I'm with you. You also said we sold our culture out. We feel that way. It's hip hop? Yeah. And it's industry wise, it's sort of the bigger picture, right? Because they did it to jazz, like they co-opted it and used it for their own purposes.

But there wasn't messages in jazz that were going to have an effect on how Black people see themselves. Right. I mean, yeah, I mean, we sold ourselves out. But I also feel like from a macro perspective, this is going to be the civil rights movement created a lot of opportunities and it shifted the mentality that made many of us very passive. I know where you're going. You know? Brother Martin said that, though. I feel like I integrated my people into a burning house.

Into a burning house, right? It was more of a sense of independence. I get what you're saying. Go deeper. It's OK. Nah. We got you. We got you.

We got you. We got you. We got you. It's OK. It's OK. Nah, we got you. We got you. No argument, no argument. Man, my godfather gonna call me and be like, uh, young man. I'm like, you know, um, yeah, like, it's um, it's heavy, it's a lot, and I'm like, ah, you got me a pinch right now, damn. I didn't hear what you originally said. You said that we sold ourselves out.

Mm-hmm. Oh, OK. In terms of the music. Well, yeah, I heard that on the podcast. On the podcast, yeah. Yeah. I mean, even, I mean, you know, there was a time, and hip hop artists talk about it when their record labels say to them,

this is what you have to rap about. This is what we're paying for you to rap about. Right. So it's, you know, and again, I say in a lot of ways, for you to rap on. So it's, you know, and again, I say in a lot of ways, we are a generation, you know, we are complicit in what we see, you know, the state of hip hop and the younger generation. That's, you know, we allowed that to happen. And for the dollar.

See the Loz Tucker. She was right. She was right. I'm gonna get a t-shirt that says Auntie was right. She was right. She was right. I'm gonna get a t-shirt that says auntie was right. When Snoop was here, this was a few years ago, we had a conversation about that because that's always been on my mind as I got older, like damn, see,

Dolores Tucker was actually right. And Snoop said she was, but it was the way she was coming at us. And again, it's like back to that first amendment thing too. You know what I mean? Like it's a layered conversation. Um, like you can't tell me I can sit like, who, where are you going to control my tongue like that?

You know, I'm an artist. You gotta let me do, do what I do. And so, and selling yourself out means such a different thing years ago than today, you know, a lot of it had to do with people not even being informed, such a different thing years ago than today. You know, a lot of it had to do with people not even being informed, right, educated on what they could, could not do, their rights, whether it was publishing,

whether it was First Amendment rights, whether it was their right to own a certain right, you know, that they should have owned, advances. Now these days, people are smarter. So when we say that people sell themselves out, I mean it's negative, but along the way you should be selling something, right? You should be, you know, in the marketplace. You should be the monopoly that you want to be in the process. So I'm glad the times have changed, right? But it's definitely different

when we talk about who we are today. We are more informed in terms of, and so we're making more decisions, which is a good takeaway when we're looking back at what was happening in the 90s. But some of the times you understand, like we had an artist appear the other day, his name was Rob 490, he's from Louisiana, and he said he signed the deal

so he could get out of the hood. Because he knew that if he was still there, it would be problems for him, his family, his mother and all that. So he had to do the deal to get out. And I know even with hip hop back then, a lot of artists did the same. That was their only way out. Their music was great and they didn't know anything

out of that. So people consider that selling their soul, selling themselves out. For them, they look like, look, I'm just trying to get out the hood. That's right. And if they had more information, they would have been better off.

That's all. Yeah, access.. Yeah access. It's a big deal I agree opportunities a couple more questions because I want people to subscribe to the podcast But when it comes to TV and movies, do you have the same discretion with the n-word and the b-word? Yeah, I mean I feel like if it's if it's you mean in terms of Using it in terms of my use of it or the industry's use of it? Both. So I think I am, I'm against the gratuitous use of the word. So like, I understand all of the arguments

and all of the defending, but I think what's getting lost is I'm referring to the gratuitous use of it. Sure, we can talk all day about there are some circumstances where that word is the only thing that really, you know, so I'm aware of all of that. But my issue was I said, it's the gratuitous use of it. Because I would imagine, right, that if you get a tight script that takes place in the 1960s, well, that script's gonna have the N-word. That's context. Right.

So, so right, that's, that's different. And that's what we, we talk about a lot amongst the three of us is that it does have a place. We can't diserase that a history, right? It has a place. You cannot do certain things without the word coming up. It's just where you place it in your own life and that's where you place it. Yeah, like I can't go do an August Wilson play.

Period, you don't wanna say the N word. I'm not gonna use this word. So I get all of that, I think my issue is, along with the, I go back to anti-black messaging in our music, the gratuitous use of the N word, it's just, for me I'm just like, enough already. And again, I say enough already, but then I also go back to,

there are so many incredible lyricists who have proven their pen game is top notch, and I go, well, just like, elevate the shit. If all these corny motherfuckers are using nigga bitch in all of their lyrics, then just like elevate the shit. If all these corny motherfuckers are using nigga and bitch in all of their lyrics, then don't elevate the shit. Like show them, and also when we're in our 40s and 50s still rapping the same shit we were rapping in our 20s, it's like, that's not even, you know,

like show me some growth. Like if you're not even giving me any integrity in your art at this point. And evolution. Evolution, yeah, and growth. And I like, I just can't, and it's not feeding my soul. Can't do it. I guess you, I want to ask you one question

about respectability politics, cause you brought it up. The thing about respectability politics, what if the person you're respecting is just truly yourself? You're just policing yourself. This ain't about respecting the white man or the system or trying to make the system comfortable. I'm just respecting myself. Is that still respectability politics?

So I bring it up all the time because whenever we talk about that, people go to, well, it doesn't matter what people think about us. I'm like, I'm not even talking about white people. I'm talking about our own level of self-respect. So that's always the take that I bring up. But then it goes, it always, the conversation always leads back

to claiming respectability. Yeah. What you think, Hannah? No, agreed. You know, we have this conversation often where, you know, you go out, you're not even worrying about any other race until somebody reminds you.

So most of the things you're doing, I'm just doing inside of myself. I'm not really concerned about that. I echo what he says. I mean, those are very specific and nuanced situations. It's situational, right? I think that we've got to center ourselves first. I think it's time that, you know, we put black folks at the front

and really center how we move and making our movements based around the greater good. The respectability politics, it happens. It's a reality of American culture. And some people choose to engage and some people choose to engage and some people don't. You don't seem like the type that's gonna ever engage with. No.

No. No. No. No. I love my people. I love my people. Mm-hmm. Absolutely.

Well the podcast Not All Hood is streaming everywhere and we appreciate you guys for joining us. Thank you so much. Yes, thank you! We appreciate it. Malcolm Jamal Warner, Way U C, Baraka and Candice Kelly, thank you guys so much. Thank you. It's The Breakfast Club. Good morning. Wake that ass up!

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