The Breakfast Club - Tonya Lewis Lee & Omari Maynard On The Black Maternal Mortality Crisis, The Power Of Birthing + More

Episode Date: July 27, 2022

Tonya Lewis Lee & Omari Maynard On The Black Maternal Mortality Crisis, The Power Of Birthing + MoreSee omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

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Yep, Charlamagne Tha God, Angela Yee, Envy had to go for a second, but we have some very special guests here. We have Tanya Lewis-Lee and Omari Maynard from the Aftershock documentary. Good morning, how are y'all? Good morning. What's happening? All is well. Things are great.

There's a lot of awesome conversation happening, especially, you know, specifically with this month being BIPOC Mental Health Month. But Aftershock in itself is just such a dope film. I'm so excited that it's actually out now and it's streaming on Hulu. Let's talk about it.

It examines the maternal mortality rate in America. Definitely. Especially for black women, too. And I think this is something we've discussed, how that rate is so much higher than white women. Yeah. Black women are dying at three to four times the rate of white women from childbirth complications in New York City.

It's eight to 12 times the rate of white women. And it is a crisis. It's a national crisis that people haven't been talking about. That's why I directed and produced the film, so that we could have a conversation. I'm so grateful to Omari for allowing us to come into his life at a very difficult time and open himself up to the camera so that everybody can understand what it's like for a family to lose someone from childbirth complications and what it takes for someone to pick themselves up and not only heal for themselves but also try to heal the community

because that's really what Amari's doing. We've spoken to doulas on this show before. We have our good friend Latham. And I know at one point you guys did get a midwife yeah so can you talk about what that process was like and what you learned when you did get a midwife so for us we have a very our family dynamic is very unique and the fact that a Shawnee shamanism excuse me shamanism she um she's been in the in the midwife midwifery community for decades.

She's been doing a lot of work specifically around maternal health and the darker side of it. So we knew about the need for a midwife. We knew about the need to have a doula. So for both of our children, we had a midwife and doula present. And we knew what the warning signs were and what to do. You know, so that in itself was just amazing for us. But the thing is, is that a lot of people don't know that they have birthing options and they have people to support. The greatest thing about it, though, is that, you know, once we're in the delivery room, once we're about to bring this new child into the world, we have people to advocate for you. You know, and those experiences, they kind of get very nuanced in the fact that,

you know, doctors, nurses, they ask you a lot of questions and a lot of things that you're not really processing as a father and as a mother, specifically as a mother, you know? So just having those advocates in the room, it's a beautiful thing. No, I love the fact that y'all did Aftershock

from the perspective of, you know, two men, because that's one beautiful thing no I love the fact that y'all did aftershock from the perspective of you know two men because that's one of the reasons I got a doula you know we wouldn't got late them because I saw Charles Johnson you familiar with Charles Johnson I saw Charles Johnson on CNN back in the day and I just could not imagine you know something like that happening in my second daughter was born because of an emergency c-section like he was born a month early and, you know, got rushed to the hospital, did the C-section. And that could have went either way. And from that point on, I just had like such an anxiety surrounding childbirth that I never wanted to be in there alone without having a doula.

Well, it's interesting you bring that up, anxiety, because I think that unfortunately in this country and given this crisis that there is anxiety and fear. And I really think that we need to shift the culture because birthing should be an exciting, empowering time for a woman and for her family. And it should not be anxiety producing. I mean, we've been birthing since forever. That's why we're all here. And I think part of the issue is that we have, you know, as technology has advanced, we have moved into more of, as Helena Grant says in the film, a technocratic patriarchal model of birthing, which can create some issues. So I liken it to farm to table, that now we've got to come back a little bit back and look at what the midwives did back in the past

and use a little bit of what they've done and a little bit of the medical technocratic model, but not the way it is, because that's really what's killing us. We should not be afraid to be giving birth. It should be a powerful time for a woman. Helena Grant also talks about how when a woman is birthing a child, she's not just birthing that child, she's birthing a mother. And so the process of labor, yes, it can hurt, it can be painful, but we shouldn't be afraid of that either. That is a process that we go through so that we are

powerful mothers. When you go through the process of birthing, you know you can do anything, you know. So I just hope that as we have conversations around the issues of birthing in America, especially with black women, that we're looking for a space to eradicate the fear and find the empowerment part of birthing. I agree with you 100%. It's just so difficult when you go in these hospitals that are majority white driven. It's a lot of white nurses, a lot of white doctors. They're not looking at, you know, I remember one time for our third child,

like they didn't even have any epidurals, like literally in the hospital. And they were just like, well, baby's right there. You can just push it out. And I'm like, you know, like how are you supposed to react to something like that? Well, yeah, no, and I completely agree with you. And I think Amari raised the idea of choice in birthing, right? I think that we can start thinking about the fact that we can be consumers here, you know, if we can, and find the right situation for you.

If you want to birth in a hospital with a doctor, just with a doctor, you can do that. But if you want to bring a doula into that, that's great too. You could birth in a birthing center with a midwife and a doula, maybe without an epidural, with that in mind, that you're going into that process. People can birth at home with a midwife and a doula and a doctor on call, if that's what makes them feel comfortable. And I really think it's about finding the right environment and the right support around a woman. It should be woman-centered. And she needs to figure out what she needs around her. Because I agree, like, you don't want to be in a hospital necessarily where there's a bunch of white people looking at you like you're crazy, don't really believe you when you say you're having pain, you're asking for things and they're, you know, discounting you. That is not the type of

environment anyone wants to be giving birth in. And sometimes it feels like, and you point this out too, it's like the midwife or the doula against the doctor. And it's not like they're working together in tandem. Right. And they should be. I mean, every other industrialized nation has midwives integrated into women's health care so that women interface with the with the midwife first. If there is a problem, because midwives separate from doulas, midwives are clinicians that can do just about anything a doctor can except for cut you. The OB-GYNs are surgeons. They are surgeons. We need them.

They're important. But they're ready to do surgery. Midwives are there to hang out and take the time and allow your body to do what it's supposed to do. And if they're working together, I think that's the best situation so that if a complication occurs, you've got the doctor right there who is ready to come in. But if we're not working together and in tandem, then it becomes a fight between the power. Who is more powerful, the doctor or the midwife?

But we need to figure out how to work together. And even when it comes to C-sections, you've spoken about how that's been on the rise. I think like 70% more C-sections are happening. Why are hospitals so quick to be like, you've got to get a C-sections. You've spoken about how that's been on the rise. I think like 70% more C-sections are happening. Why are hospitals so quick to be like, you gotta get a C-section? More money. Yeah, that's what it is. Essentially. So we talk about in the film the rates

of C-sections. It's about 60%. 60% of C-sections are not needed. But like Charlemagne just said, it's about fifteen thousand dollars you get for a vaginal birth and it takes about eight to twelve hours right to go through that whole process but a c-section you make double the amount of money it takes about 45 minutes you know and it's scheduled so a doctor if you want to go catch a golf game or dinner you can

go do that exactly and that's what i was just about to say in in the film it's so ill because like there's a there's a part of it where you know like the um all the nurses and doctors are you know in the um in the you know the the forum and they're talking about the schedule c-sections but it's not, they're not talking about, they're not talking to people by, about, by their name. It's all numbered X, Y, 2, 5, 7, 8, Schedule C section for this time, X, Y, 3, 7, 5. She's, you know, got already had a C section, so she needs another, like, so it's, it's really, it's a really monetized model where it's, it's almost similar to the prison system, where everybody kind of has this serial number, you know, and that's how people are looked at, not necessarily as people, but as commodities. I thank God for information, and I thank God for, you know, Latham,

because, like, I can still hear the fear in my wife's voice when she had to think about having a C-section for the second time. After she had the one for our second child, they told her when she got pregnant again, she was going to have to have another C-section. It was already scheduled and everything. It's just a random conversation with Latham, and I just asked her, and she was like, no, she doesn't have to have a C-section.

And so that's when she first got with Latham, and Latham walked her through the process, and she ended up having the vaginal birth. She did, she did. Oh, that's amazing. Yeah, for our third and fourth child. That is really amazing she was able to do that. And like you say, she had the support of someone

who was like, hold on a second, we can do this. Because without that support, she's being pushed into having that C-section, which happens to too many women. Now, another thing that you guys discuss is what happens after a woman gives birth, right? What's going on with going back to the doctor, getting checked up on? And Omari, I know for you, you feel that that death could have been prevented. Yeah, most definitely.

Most definitely. Just throughout the entire process, Shemani was healthy. She was strong. We tried to have her VBAC as well, vaginal birth after C-section. Unfortunately, it didn't happen. But when we left the hospital, I left with my son and my partner. So I thought everything was fine. And the subsequent days, she was complaining about chest pain.

She was complaining about having shortness of breath. She was complaining about not being able to walk, you know, and do these certain things. And like I said, you know, our family has been in this maternal space for a while. So her mom was like, this is the problem. These are the issues. This is how she's feeling. And every time we went, because of the fact that Shamani's scheduled visit for her checkup was six weeks out, they didn't they didn't look at her. Wow. They looked at this, the this the C-section that she had for the clips. They talked about, we went to have a visit for Kari

and what his needs are. But every time we went out there, we were advocating and advocating and advocating. It was still this thing where it's because of the fact that it's not her scheduled time, she can't be seen. It acted like it was normal. Exactly. It's horrible because many of these deaths happen postpartum. Many of

these deaths. And the fact that, you know, she had an appointment six weeks out and no and they're like, oh, no, we've got to wait for that six weeks is insane. It's insane. You know, women should be checked on a few days after a week after They should be seen, especially after having major surgery, like a C-section. And again, that's one of those things midwives do. They will come and check you right after having birth. Six weeks out is way too long, and I think we need a cultural shift in that.

Women should be seen much sooner before that. Natanya, for you, this is, I know you've produced before, but this is a directorial debut for you. So what was your passion behind this? And how was it for you filming? Because I know emotionally you get attached and I know there were difficult times, you know, because clearly this is not something that's easy. Yeah. You know, I had been working, raising awareness about the high rates of infant mortality in the United States. I started that back in 2007, traveled the country talking about infants. You know, we have the same disparity as in maternal health. Black babies die at three to

four times the rate of white babies in this country before their first birthday. I found myself immersed in a world of women's health. Really, I'm just an advocate because I know how hard it is for us as women, as people in general, to access our best healthy lives here in this country. And I believe that health is everything. It's the foundation and basis of everything that we do. And while I was talking, I would go and talk to groups of women. And, you know, inevitably someone would tell me about someone who passed away from childbirth complications. And actually the first one that I knew about was a woman named Tatiana Oden French because her partner was someone that I had or her husband was someone that I had gone to school with.

And he called me and told me about her passing. So I had been hearing about all of these deaths and wanted to tell a story about it. I wanted to raise awareness about it so that we can do something. I think if we don't have the conversation about what's happening, we can't fix it. And I really believe that we can make for better birth outcomes. I really believe that. So that's why I wanted to make the film. And when Shawnee and Omari put out on social media an invitation for a celebration of Shamani's life, along with a conversation with the community about what was happening with black maternal health, we reached out to film and they agreed. And that really began the film that you see as Aftershock. And, you know, it was, it is hard. It is hard subject matter.

And, you know, I didn't know Amari, Shawnee and Bruce. And, you know, you go in, obviously, with deep humility, deep empathy. And but they really wanted to have this conversation. Right. And so it became very collaborative. And it was really about where where they led. We followed. If you're good with it, I'm good with it. If there's something you don't want to do, I'm not doing it. And it's just, it's been a really wonderful process. It's been amazing getting to know Shamani and Amber through Amari, Shawnee, and Bruce. They were beautiful, loving, active women. And I just really wanted people to get to know them a little bit. And I want people to feel empowered. So, you know, you do the best you can to try to make some change in this crazy world.

Because I really believe we can change these outcomes. How was the process for you, Amari? Making the film? Mm-hmm. It was enlightening. So we did Aftershock, our Aftershock event, on December 19th for Shemani's birthday. So this is two months after she passed.

So during that two-month time frame was the darkest time of my life honestly um it was filled with my deepest grief sadness just insecurities like all these things started coming up and um me being able to process it was it was difficult but what i started to do was painting i started to paint and i honestly i spent two months in my basement painting by myself trying to figure out this new life that i was going to have to um lead so when tanya and paula came and introduced this film to us i was like nah i'm not doing this this is this is i'm not at my best exactly you know i'm going i'm going through things you know going through things i've never been through before. But after having a conversation with Shawnee and, you know, her just kind of identifying what the opportunity was, what the possibilities could be. And just the fact that, you know, regardless of where the film went, at least we would have something documented about our family so that our kids could watch.

You know, so at that point I was all i was on board i was ready but um you know it's a documentary so you just you don't know you know so it's like i don't know what i'm gonna do i don't know how i'm gonna be uh but it it really to paul and this is really the greatness of Paula and Tanya and how they allowed us to be ourselves. They allowed us to process in whatever way that we wanted to process. And like she said, like Tanya said, they gave us space when we needed it. And at the same time, you know, they knew that we were going to do the work because we are advocates and activists, you know, at heart. So the work was going to come, but it was really just about how and when. Emotionally and mentally, you know, at heart. So the work was going to come, but it was really just about how and when.

Emotionally and mentally, you know, how else did you process the trauma of this event other than the painting? Yeah, so thankfully I've got a dope community. So as soon as she passed, like I had grief counselors. Beautiful. When Shamani was when you know she when she was here we'd go to couples therapy you know so he was already yeah I was I was on it I was on it and I mean not by choice to be honest you know it was

something that Shamani was pushing but you know I went once I went twice and then obviously I after a while I saw the value in it because it just made the relationship great but after she passed I, I kept going to the same therapist. And then, like I said, I have family, friends coming in, to help out around the house and provide pampers, diapers, all the things that you would need on a day-to-day basis. But in order for me to process my grief, painting was one. But it turned into being this kind of mind, body, spirit training where I was running every day. I was working out. I was painting. I was talking to my therapist. I was talking to family and friends, just different ways to deal with the pain, deal with the grief and process it in a way that was positive and like that's kind of what I really try to push now especially to men going through anything because we all go through our own pain we all go through our own traumas right

but it's so important that we speak about it that we communicate it and that we you know we do the things right because it's always and this is a ongoing never-ending process I'm gonna be going through this for the rest of my life. So it is really making sure that I'm being very intentional about how I want to move my energy and use my energy. And these, for me, running, painting, working out, talking, those are the things that works for me. It's different for everybody, but again, that's what I would push for people.

Yeah, when I hear brothers like you tell your story brothers like you know charles johnson tell your story i'm just like y'all way stronger than me because there's no way i don't even know if i could even have that conversation because i don't even know when it would hit me that this actually happened you know i mean and then you see a child every day so every day you're thinking about your queen i i would push it back a little and say that it's i honestly don't feel that way i feel like you whatever you're given is what you're given right yeah and you know god doesn't make mistakes. We all like and then like I said earlier, we all have our own griefs. Right. Minds might be a little bit deeper than than others. But when it all comes down to it, if you're going to be there for your child, you're going to be there for yourself.

You're going to be there for your family. You got to do the work, you know, and it's really that simple. So once you kind of break it down in that in that way, it's it's, you know, all right, what's next? What do I got to do? You know, it's, you know, get down and lay down. And, you know, you got to make things happen, especially, you know, just being in New York and especially trying to raise your child. Like I've got three children. You know, and they got to eat.

They got to learn. They got to do all the things. I have to put them in the best position possible. So, again, and this is again i always big up my community because i this isn't something that i could have done by myself right you definitely need people in conjunction and partnerships and and to take the kids off your hands on the days where you just like i just don't got it today you know but um and and that's why i really try to do my best to make sure that I speak to fathers who are going through the things that I've gone through, because they don't.

A lot of them just don't have that same support system. And they just need to know that, you know, even if I'm not necessarily physically there, they can call somebody at the very least and say, yo, this is what I'm going through. I need to emote, you knowote. That's what we're doing. I respect it coming from you because I know you've allowed yourself to feel. You're not numbing the pain. Not at all. What about you and Bruce also? What type of relationship?

Bruce is my guy, man. I love Bruce. Bruce, he pushes me in ways that nobody else can because of the fact that we've been through the same thing and have shared the same experiences and are going through this path together. You know, so, you know, me and him, me and him, we speak all the time, you know, and I know that, you know, when he's doing his thing and his spaces, he's advocating for me and i'm doing the same exact thing you know because of the fact that you know he's just he's he's one of those men who like charlamagne said is allowing themselves to feel right um always say that in your deepest grief you gain your greatest growth you know so and and with bruce like i don't know if I could have went through what Bruce went through, you know, with Amber and how the hospitals treated her.

But again, you know, so I watch him and see what he's doing and see how his Savor Rose Foundation is just doing awesome things and how he's really servicing the community in real ways, you know? And again, you know, when you have brothers like that who have that power to, you know, just shift and do the work, you know, you got to big up that, man, and you got to humble yourself and just let them know that they are loved, you know? What can you do to advocate for yourself, right? What would you recommend to people if a woman, a family, are dealing with a complicated childbirth, they know something's wrong,

the hospital is not being responsive. The doctors aren't doing what they're supposed to do. What can you do? You can, you have options. So in the film, there was a sister, her name is Felicia. She went and had a birth at a birthing center. But she was already, I think, 34 weeks in. Yeah, 35 weeks.

She was at the end, you know, and she was going to the doctors, you know, to hospitals during this 35-week time period. But she decided to shift because she felt like the need wasn't there. So it's never too late. You know, it's never too late. I think that, you know, to your question, I think that it's so important that you understand and learn what's around you. Right. So there are places that rate hospitals based off of the amount of C-sections that they provide to their patrons.

And as you say that, just shout out to Kimberly Seals-Aller, who's got the Earth app that is actually rating. Yeah. So, yeah. Kimberly is super dope. Earth app, definitely. And for those who don't know what Earth app is, it's basically like a Yelp type of app. I met her. I met her at the Doola Expo. Yeah, definitely.

Yeah, yeah. She's doing great work. So it's that platform that allows people to rate the hospitals, rate the doctors, rate the nurses, and that's what you should be doing. Accountability. Exactly. Now, is there anything you can do right after everything happened? The doctors didn't do what they could.

This was preventable. Right. So now what happens after that? Is this something that is malpractice? Like what can somebody do afterward? Well, can I just say what I think Omari and Bruce are doing is amazing. I mean, what I've learned is from watching them is that grief is love. It's love for the people that have passed.

It's love for the people who are still here. It's love for community. And what they are doing is activating a community. They've become activated. As Omari says, he is painting. He's painting portraits, paying it forward, reaching out to other men, being supportive. Bruce is trying to bring a birthing center to the Bronx. He already has the womb bus that is going around the Bronx. And so while, unfortunately, there isn't a lot that one can do for those that are gone,

there are things that people can do for those of us who are here. And, you know, I see that every day in what Savor Rose and Aria is doing. But and I think I think all of us have a role to play, quite frankly. I mean, we should be paying attention to what Bruce is doing. We should be supporting that. We need more birthing centers in New York City. We should be paying attention to what's going on in the midwifery profession. We need more midwives. We need more black midwives. We need more black OB-GYNs. We do. We need more black doctors. And we need to be

having the conversation so that we can all figure out how do we make it better for all of us? Because birthing is critically important. Mothers are critically important. We are maternal health and infant health is the marker of a health of a nation. And if black women are not doing well, that means we are not doing well as a nation. So we have to figure out how to how to fix it. Absolutely. So where do they catch Aftershock at? Aftershock is streaming right now on Hulu,

and so we hope a lot of people go out and check it out. And what do y'all hope this project does? You know, I hope that the film Aftershock, as I said, I hope it's a conversation starter. I hope people watch it and talk about it. I hope people debate it. You know, if they look at, well, Felicia had an amazing birth in a birthing center, you know, talk about how you feel about the idea of birthing in a birthing center versus a hospital. Talk about what does it mean to have

a midwife learn more? We do. We cover the history of midwifery in this country. I mean, you know, the obstetric profession really is based on taking the economy of midwifery out of the hands of black women, put it in the hands of white doctors and hospitals, putting us all into their hands into hospitals and demonizing black midwives. We need to learn about our history so that we understand how we got here. Does insurance cover midwives? Insurance does not cover midwives. So we need laws. We need laws.

And the good news is that there are laws right now. There's the mom-to-bus bills that are in Congress right now working their way through. As I said, many of these deaths are postpartum. So for women who are on Medicaid, we need Medicaid to extend for at least a year postpartum. Often women who are on Medicaid, they get kicked off very soon after delivery. We need to keep them on.

Midwives and doulas need to get paid. They need to be covered as well. So all of that. We need to figure out what's going on and vote because voting matters. Who's in office? We look at right now what's happening with the reversal of Roe v. Wade, which is going to impact black women more than it does anybody else. Certainly when it comes to maternal deaths, there's a study that just said maternal death for black women may go up 33 percent because of this Dobbs decision.

And everybody who voted for Donald Trump twice, they're the ones that got us here. So we do have to vote and we do have to be active in our political system, too. Speaking of that, can you touch on Lynn's law a little bit? Because didn't the Senate pass legislation to improve maternal and reproductive health in New York State last year? I'm not sure. I'm not familiar with that one. Do you know it, Omari? No, I'm not familiar either. Okay. But I do like the fact that the documentary does offer some optimism and some solutions.

Absolutely. To move forward. And I do feel like, and Omari, thank you so much for actually participating and agreeing to do the documentary and coming up here to spread the knowledge, spread the knowledge and the word about it and being so strong for your family. Yeah, no, no problem. Thank you for having us. This is a moment. This is definitely a moment. are listening where people are trying to improve where people do understand that that we need to have you know not just a physical connection with people but also

create spiritual connections with them as well you know and when I say people I'm talking about you know here on our earth plane but also our ancestors you know and you know so that's what we're here for and that's what we're doing it is just again thank you you know our foundation the ARIA foundation you know, so that's what we're here for, and that's what we're doing. And just, again, thank you. You know, our foundation, the ARIA Foundation, you know, well, ARIA in itself stands for the Advancement of Reproductive Innovation through Artistry and Healing. You know, so what we're doing is we're really trying to intentionally create spaces and places and talk about and have these conversations

where they weren't being had before, right? When I go to rallies and do events, you know, there are a lot of doulas, there are a lot of midwives, there are a lot of nurses, and that's awesome, right? But it's so important that we really intentionally try to connect with people who don't know, who don't have the information, who are oblivious or who may not even really want to have birth. But it's just so important that they know because there are other ways that you can advocate. There's other ways that you can help and be a part of this. That's right. Make sure y'all go watch the Aftershock documentary on Hulu. Amari Maynard, Tanya Lewis-Lee, thank you for joining us this morning.

Thank you. Thank you. Appreciate it. It's The Breakfast Club. Had enough of this country? Ever dreamt about starting your own? I planted the flag. This is mine. I own this. It's surprisingly easy. 55 gallons of water, 500 pounds of concrete. Or maybe not.

No country willingly gives up their territory. Oh my God. What is that? Bullets. Listen to Escape from Zakistan. That's Escape from Z-A-Q-A-Stan on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

Hey guys, I'm Kate Max. You might know me from my popular online series, The Running Interview Show, where I run with celebrities, athletes, entrepreneurs, and more. After those runs, the conversations keep going. That's what my podcast, Post Run High, is all about. It's a chance to sit down with my guests

and dive even deeper into their stories, their journeys, and the thoughts that arise once we've hit the pavement together. Listen to Post Run High on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Hey, y'all. Niminy here. I'm the host of a brand new history podcast for kids and families called Historical Records. Executive produced by Questlove, The Story Pirates, and John Glickman, Historical Records brings history to life through hip-hop. Each episode is about a different inspiring figure from history.

Like this one about Claudette Colvin, a 15-year-old girl in Alabama who refused to give up her seat on the city bus nine whole months before Rosa Parks did the same thing. Check it. And it began with me. Did you know, did you know? I wouldn't give up my seat. Nine months before Rosa, it was Claudette Colvin.

Get the kids in your life excited about history by tuning in to Historical Records. Because in order to make history, you have to make some noise. Listen to Historical Records on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Hey, everyone. This is Courtney Thorne-Smith, Laura Layton, and Daphne Zuniga. On July 8th, 1992, apartment buildings with pools were never quite the same as Melrose Place was introduced to the world. We are going to be reliving every hookup, every scandal, and every single wig removal together. So listen to Still the Place on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen to podcasts. I'm bringing you all the latest happening in our entertainment world and some fun and impactful interviews with your favorite Latin artists, comedians, actors, and influencers.

Each week, we get deep and raw life stories, combos on the issues that matter to us, and it's all packed with gems, fun, straight-up comedia, and a sazón that only nuestra gente can sprinkle. Listen to Gracias Come Again on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.