The Breakfast Club - Viola Davis Talks New Memoir "Finding Me", Relationship With Parents, Michelle Obama & More

Episode Date: July 6, 2022

Thee legendary Viola Davis joins us to talk her new memoir, family and playing Michelle ObamaSee omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

Had enough of this country? Ever dreamt about starting your own? I planted the flag. This is mine. I own this. It's surprisingly easy. 55 gallons of water, 500 pounds of concrete. Or maybe not. No country willingly gives up their territory. Oh my God.

What is that? Bullets. Listen to Escape from Zakistan. We need help! That's Escape from Z-A-Q-istan on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Hey guys, I'm Kate Max. You might know me from my popular online series, The Running Interview Show, where I run with celebrities, athletes, entrepreneurs, and more. After those runs, the conversations keep going. That's what my podcast

Post Run High is all about. It's a chance to sit down with my guests and dive even deeper into their stories, their journeys, and the thoughts that arise once we've hit the pavement together. Listen to Post Run High on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. As a kid, I really do remember having these dreams and visions, but you just don't know what is going to come for you. Alicia shares her wisdom on growth, gratitude, and the power of love. I forgive myself. It's okay.

Have grace with yourself. You're trying your best. And you're going to figure out the rhythm of this thing. Alicia Keys, like you've never heard her before. Listen to On Purpose with Jay Shetty on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. like you to join us each week for our show Civic Cipher. That's right. We discuss social issues especially those that affect black

and brown people but in a way that informs and empowers all people. We discuss everything from prejudice to politics to police violence and we try to give you the tools to create positive change in your home, workplace and social circle. We're going to learn how to become better allies to each other so join us each Saturday for Civic Cipher

on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcast or wherever you get your podcasts. Hey, y'all. Niminy here. I'm the host of a brand new history podcast for kids and families called Historical Records. Executive produced by Questlove, The Story Pirates, and John Glickman, Historical Records brings history to life through hip-hop. Each episode is about a different inspiring figure from history. Like this one about Claudette Colvin, a 15-year-old girl in Alabama who refused to give up her seat on the city bus nine whole months before Rosa

Parks did the same thing. Check it. And it began with me. Did you know, did you know? I wouldn't give up my seat. Nine months before Rosa, it was called a moment. Get the kids in your life excited about history by tuning in to Historical Records. Because in order to make history, you have to make some noise.

Listen to Historical Records on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Wake that ass up. In the morning. The Breakfast Club. Morning, everybody.

It's DJ Envy, Angela Yee, Charlamagne Tha God. We are The Breakfast Club. We got a special guest in the building. A queen, an icon living. That's right, Viola Davis. Welcome. Congratulations. Thank you so much. Good morning. How are you today?

You know what? I'm pretty good. I'm well rested. I feel alive. There you go. Alert. Okay. Well, thank you for taking time to come and sit with us. This was so exciting. It's a little raggedy show. On the schedule of Viola Davis Finding Me. Okay. Well, thank you for taking time to come and sit with us. This was so exciting. It's a little raggedy show. On the schedule of Viola Davis, Finding Me. Yes.

Thank you. Man, this book is such a beautiful exploration of your inner child. When you started the journey of writing this book, did you know you would go on that journey with your inner child as well? Yeah, that was the whole point, that I needed to find that inner child. And my inner child was one that needed both healing and needed to be celebrated. She was a survivor as well as someone who, you know, held a lot of trauma. But I felt like I had to explore it because we were at that period of time. I wrote it during the pandemic. You know, the George Floyd of it all, the Ahmaud Arbery, Breonna Taylor of it all, everything.

Dealing with the COVID, with the election, I felt like I was having a crisis of meaning. And it was my way of pressing the reset button. Just to understand, man, Viola, what are you supposed to do from here on out? It just was a big wake-up call personally and, you know, culturally. So that's why I wrote the book. I had to go back to the beginning of me. Did you start during the pandemic or this was something you were doing beforehand and you were just so many projects, you was like, I'll get to it. This was pandemic. This is what I want to do. Well, I didn't want to do nothing during the pandemic.

But I did start during the pandemic. I had just finished How to Get Away with Murder. I literally just ended it that March. And then I started writing the book. It was something to do because otherwise I was going stir crazy. I wasn't the person who settled into the pandemic. I felt everything that was going on around me and I felt the chaos of it and I internalized it. So this book was great therapy. So when God made you sit still and, you know, during the pandemic,

what did you see about yourself that you hadn't saw in a while? I saw a lot of things. I saw Viola as a survivor. I saw, you know, I keep telling this story ad nauseum. I know I've told it a lot. But I've always said you got to leave a legacy, right? So I said, you know, life is like a relay race. It's what you do with your dash of time and what great runner you pass that baton, you know, off to you pass it on to the next generation. They pass it on to the person, you know, who's after them and after them. And I realized during the writing of the book is those great runners. Are you at a different age. The six-year-old who survives it and, you know, may survive it really messy, may have been inappropriate, but she ran her leg of the

race and passed the baton on to the 14-year-old Viola, who said, I want to be an actor. In the midst of all the poverty, the abuse, the bedwetting, the sexual abuse, all of that. She wanted to be an actor. She saw a way out. And 14-year-old passed it on to the 28-year-old who said, you know what? I need therapy because I want healthy relationships in my life. I want to be happier. And I don't know how to do that. And she passed it on to the 34-year-old Viola who got married to the 44, 45-year-old Viola

who then became a mom. And then now I'm 56 and I have the baton in my hand. And now what, you know, what am I supposed to do with this part of my life? Cause I would say at 56, you're a little bit past midlife. So,

um, that's what I learned. It's like it's a constant reassessment of where do you want to be? What are your life? What do you want your life to sort of look like? And I keep coming back to this because I know that I know that I know that the number one regret of the dying is they didn't take risks. They didn't become their ideal self. I don't want anyone to think that I wasn't brave.

And I think that sometimes people hold off braveness and courage because they don't want to risk failure. And they don't want to risk shame. And I think you got to risk it. And that's been my biggest discovery in writing the book. You say in the book that memories are powerful, right? Some people like to forget memories because it's so painful. It's so hurtful.

But it seems like you use it as inspiration to push yourself harder. Why is that? I think the pain, the trauma is equal to the joy and the peace in your life. I think that they're one in the same. I don't think that the pain and the trauma and the hard times are a detour from life. I think it's a part of life. And I think that when you refuse to lean in to all of it, is you refuse to become connected to yourself. And that's why no one can connect with anyone else. Because the only time we want to meet is with great stories of overcoming and winning. And then when someone feels like they're not overcoming and they're not winning and they're not waking up happy every day, then they feel like they need to hide in the closet, not come out, not open their mouths, not say anything.

There's no one to share with. There's no sacred space to be you. I count it all joy. Now, when I say I count it all joy. It takes some time. Sometimes I count it all joy. But I do believe that it's all a part of life. I've been in too many spaces where I haven't been able

to connect with people. You just never know what people have gone through to get to where they are today, which is why a memoir like this, where you were so open and honest about everything, it really helped us to see

where you you come from when you're acting and I wanted to ask you about your relationship with your parents yeah because in this book you talk a lot about things that happened to you when you were a child what did you realize while writing this book about like your father and about your mother I realized they did the best they could with what they had. That's what I realized. Because it's so hard to forgive your dad.

I know you talk about how abusive he was to your mother and things that you had to witness. So was it hard for you to even forgive that? Yeah, it is. Forgiveness is, to me, I feel like forgiveness and faith are equal in terms of they're the hardest things to achieve. They're so abstract. So it comes down to choice. I forgive for myself. I forgive because I don't want to carry that weight. The weight of vengefulness, of regret and all of that. For me, it blocks everything from coming into your life. And I don't think that anyone wants to see a 60-year-old or hear a 60-year-old sitting in front of their therapist saying,

I, you know, haven't been able to make my marriage work or this work in my life because what my dad did when I was five. At some point, your life becomes yours. That's wild that you said that because my wife was up here the other day and she was like, you know, when she forgave, she forgave for herself. And I didn't understand it at first because most people think when you forgive, you're forgiving the person that hurt you. But it's actually to not to take away that pain from yourself so you don't have to deal with it anymore. Is that what you're saying when you say, I forgive for myself? Well, yeah, that's part of it.

I do believe it's a sort of prison. And not to get too philosophical, of course, but I believe that when you get to the end of your life, you're not thinking about all the people that you hated and all the people that did you wrong. I don't think that you're thinking about that when you're taking your last breath. I just don't. comes into sharp focus, which is probably making amends, probably being with the people that you love, probably sewing everything up, probably holding someone's hands. But I don't think that we're thinking about all of that. I think that once again, the only person you could save is yourself. That's the only thing that you could do. You can't keep backtracking as what wrong someone did to you or whatever. You got to figure out how to heal that so that, you know, it's what I think I, you know what, I posted it on my page. It's like, you don't, you haven't met all the people who are going to love you in your life yet. And so when you meet all these

people who are going to love you, they do not want to meet a vengeful person. Okay. Because they're going to get the overflow of that vengefulness. As a matter of fact, they're not going to get the overflow of that vengefulness. They're going to get nothing. They're going to go so far with you, and then it's going to stop. I've been with those people. They're called emotionally unavailable. I love how you held your father accountable, but also humanized him. Did you always see the humanity in him, or was that something that happened as you got older with the more work you did on yourself? Absolutely. The more work I did on myself, the more I saw his humanity, the more I could connect the dots. I thought life was like a Disney movie.

People are just good or bad. That's it. The evil villain who just comes out just wants to destroy everyone. I didn't know that people acted because of specific memories. Once again, trauma in their lives, their people. And we really demonize black people. You know, you wouldn't even be doing what you're doing if all those things hadn't happened to you as a child. Absolutely. Because it was such an escape for you to be able to turn on the TV. You said it was Cicely Tyson, right, that you saw that made you even say, this is what I want to do.

Absolutely. That woman and that performance was everything. I remember the moment I saw that performance because it was like magic. It was like it was a magician pulling a rabbit out of the hat. If you've ever seen the performance, she aged from 18 to 110 and you could not even believe it from the first frame of that. the sun came out and I saw a portal, a way out of the poverty, the, the, the trauma. I just felt like if I could do that, I could make a life. I think sometimes you got to see it, you know, and I know everybody just puts faith on people. They, especially on us, especially on black folk. I know that's all we had. I know, that's all we had.

But it's a lot. You know, you go up to young black kids who are coming from really challenging backgrounds, and people come up to them and say, you know, you could be who and what you want to be. You just have to dream big. And then once you make it, you come back, you bring your

family up, you bring your community up. And I'm sure if that kid had a language, he would say, how? That's a lot. You just don't. And then you got to work 10 times as hard. You throw all of that on their lap. And then at 15, if they can't even get, if they can't achieve it at all, if they feel like they want to give up, then we just berate them. It's a lot that we put on them.

So sometimes you got to see it. You got to hold it. You got to somebody's got to throw you a rope. They do. I was going to ask you, what was you talk about, Cicely? What was some of your positive influences? Because, you know, you talk about, you know, your parents and how you looked at your dad. And you talked about, you know, going to the white school and the white kids chasing you home with bricks and you talk about

all those things. So what positive influence did you have? What was your safe haven as a kid if there wasn't? There was no one safe haven. For me, what life becomes about is how someone could take you from A to A plus, from A plus to D, from D to, you know, to M, to M to, you know, there are people who can carry you at different points in your life. It could be a teacher. It could be a parent. It could be a relative. It could be a stranger that gives you one word. I had a lot of teachers. Even the first teacher who looked at me and he was an acting coach who looked at me and told me I was beautiful. That meant a lot to me. It did. And the first person who just came into science class because he was a teacher and I called him in the middle of the day. He was an upward bound teacher. And I said I was having a panic attack. He came to the school. He interrupted science class. He said, I want to see Viola.

The science teacher said, you can't do that. He said, excuse me, sir. sir I'm gonna do it anybody anybody who throws you a rope and sees you and likes you there is something about someone looking at you and liking you right and even seeing your potential when you can't see it absolutely because sometimes you talk yourself out of things yeah right because of fear but then someone tells you like your science teacher listen you need to apply for this you can do it it. And you tell yourself, I can't do it. Why would they take me? Why would they accept me? But somebody else believing in you and giving you the tools like you can't make excuses anymore after a while. Very seldom am I in a space, and I know y'all can say the same thing, but am I in a space as a dark-skinned black woman and could speak my truth about what that means, the isolation of that experience, okay? Because it comes at you threefold.

It comes at you through, yes, white America. It comes to you through the experience and the culture of America. And it comes to you through even black culture. I'm just going to say it because it's called colorism. It's its own different sect of racism. And it is destructive. Because what you tell women in general is that beauty is a value. Which it's not. Listen, there's...

I'm one of those people, I think everybody is beautiful. And I really do. I don't talk about stuff like that. Even the bullfrogs? Oh, yes. Well, the bullfrogs? Oh, yes. Well, the bullfrogs, that's a different level. There was some mean women.

Ugly inside. But you consider it a value. And with someone who you feel has value, you pay attention to them, you pour into them, you think that they're smarter, more valuable, more everything.

So when you go up to little chocolate girls who are darker than a paper bag and you're constantly telling them they're not as cute, they have bad hair, they have this, that you're putting negative connotations, and then you can, now, you can literally Google people who seem to have had press conferences to talk about how unattractive they find darker-skinned women. I mean, here's the thing. Even if you feel that way, why are you going to spread that? How do you think people are going to receive that?

And we know how difficult it is to get a leg up, you know, in the black community, the lack of opportunity, what we're running from. And then you're going to put that on us. And so, and when you can't speak your truth in a room, then you feel like you have to hide yourself. It's very, it's like physically painful. I want to ask you a couple more questions about your father because I find that dynamic so interesting.

And you said something in the book, and I'm paraphrasing, but you said your father was an abuser who became a good partner. In this era of cancel coaches, some people couldn't even imagine that happening. Can you explain? He did. And I think he always had it in him. I think he was wrestling.

You know, I always feel like you got two people that you wrestle with, right? And it's who you feed. And I think he fed the more violent aspects of himself. I think he was running from a lot. But in the last several decades, I think since I was probably in my 20s, he helped my mom raise a lot of my relatives' children. And he loved my mother. He was always there, rubbing her feet. And towards the end of his life, and when I say towards the end, the last couple of days of his life,

my mom would always say every single day he woke up, even when he was suffering from dementia towards the end, he would say, you know, May Alice, you know, I'm sorry about what I did to you. Wow. I'm sorry about what I did to you. Wow. I'm sorry. I feel like that's everything. I mean, how many people do you know that even make amends, that even open their mouths? And I think that that I feel like that has to be acknowledged as an incredible character trait. You also said in the book your father passed and you never got the opportunity to find out what caused his trauma.

Are you still able to heal that part of your life without knowing that piece? Oh, yeah, absolutely. Absolutely. I once again, I think the only race you can run is your own. You know, I didn't know that because he didn't make it known. And so I think that that is more his burden and not knowing. And I think that's what love looks like. It's like Bell Hook says, you know, that we're always wrestling with not feeling lovelessness. You know, if you're in any relationship, you know you're going to have some hard conversations. How did that affect you with other relationships, with you dating and viewing men?

Did you look at men as something you didn't want to necessarily date, you didn't trust because you seen how your dad? Yes, but I, you know, yes, absolutely. Yeah. And I think it's a never-ending narrative out there. You don't trust men, you know. They're cheaters, they're liars, you know. This is all they want from women.

Absolutely. It's a constant sort of stream of consciousness in the minds of women. And then when women get together, we share our jerk stories. You know, he did this to me, girl. Yeah, well, he did this to me and blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. No one could find a good man that's what the narrative out there is that no one and i remember when i met my husband julius who i prayed for and i prayed for him specifically i remember when i met him i went to my therapist

i said i don't know i don't know about him. And my therapist said, why? He seems really, really nice. I said, I know. He does seem really, really nice. Something is wrong, though. What do you think it is? I don't know, but it's something. And then I remember her saying, Viola, there will be something wrong because he's human.

He's not perfect. So if you're looking, you're going to find it. But that doesn't mean he's not the person if you're looking you're gonna find it but that doesn't mean he's not the person you should be with and that once again a portal right that you're meeting you your imperfect self who wants to be forgiven who wants to be understood is you're meeting another imperfect person that wants to be understood. And at some point, you have to make the decision to love or not love. Does that make you overprotective with your daughter now? Because you've seen so much, and now your daughter's at an age where she's,

you know, starting to be a teenager and starting to like boys or whatever. Yeah. Yes. Yes. But I know how hard life is. So I know I'm throwing her into, I feel that that's one of the things that happens when you have a kid,

that you want to protect them. And then the next thought is you can't. That's tough. That is hard. We both have four daughters, so we know. Yeah, that's what I talk about therapists about. both have four daughters, so we know. Yeah, that's what I talk about therapists about. Because my daughter's at the age now of 13

when she's telling me I'm controlling. But I'm really, in my mind, I'm just being protective. Yes, absolutely. I tell my daughter, no one is going to love you like mama loves you, not even the love of your life. So as long as we get that out of the way, that's why I talk to you like this. Have you had some conversations with your mom before this book came out?

Yes. Because I saw you talking to Oprah about that. So even afterward, like after she read it, what did she say? My mom has not read it yet. But I talk to my mom all the time about it. Once again, there are qualities I love in my parents that probably are not the qualities that I elevated. And the quality that I love in my mom is she likes to tell the truth. And I know that that sounds like really simple, but there's not a lot of people like

telling the truth a lot of people are very comfortable with telling a great beautiful lie she's not afraid of that of leaning in and so i talked to her i like my relationship with my mom now as an adult because i can ask her some pretty racy questions yeah i want to ask you about a quote and it came from a sit down with your mom when you was telling her, I guess, when you first, about the first, when you was experiencing abuse, you told her for the first time about all the abuse you experienced and you said success pales in comparison to healing. Yeah. Could you expand yeah that i think you know the point in um the the book when i when i wrote that and it took me a long time to write that part is i mentioned that you know i'm living in this big house i'm definitely living the american dream or whatever. And I think that people feel like once you hit that, then that's it.

Ever your life is sown, you've made it. And it's not it. I think that's man-made meaning. The real meaning is healing. It really is. It's healing from the wounds. It's the journey to healing, especially because, you know, once I told her that, once again, I expected a response that I would see on Thursday night lineup on ABC. And how can you expect that with something as complicated as

sort of any kind of sexual assault that happens within families. In this instance, my brother, and I'm telling my mother this, and this person, this brother came out of her body. There's a simplicity in which we approach humanity, and I think that human beings are way more complicated than that. So the path to healing is difficult. But for me, it's everything. It's not healing or healing has been the one thing that has gotten in the way of everything in my life. Either gotten in the way of it or has released it.

Ability hasn't even released things in my life. Awards haven't released anything in my life. Healing and whatever is happening internally in me has been everything. Has been the driving narrative of of my entire 56 years you think you can ever get to a place of wholeness i mean i talked to my therapist about this i'm not i don't think you do i think you because you have triggers right you'll think you're fine with something and then next thing you know you're triggered by it later on you think you ever get to a place and wholeness? And I talk about that with memories,

that memories are deathless. I don't know what that means. I feel like I'm whole. I do. But I feel like life is an absolute journey. Just like you don't know how many people are going to love you, you don't know what's going to happen tomorrow. And you don't know how you're going to react to it.

You know? And once again, Thursday night lineup on ABC. I think everybody wants a TV response. I don't think that life is a destination. Life is about driving the car and sometimes your tank is completely full. Sometimes your tank is empty and you're standing by the car waiting, you know, for AAA to come and get you some gas. Sometimes your tank is a quarter full. Sometimes your tank is empty and you're standing by the car waiting for AAA to come and get you some gas. Sometimes your tank is a quarter full. You're constantly learning. You're constantly in process, but you hope for, one of my favorite quotes is, I don't know the definition of grace, only that it meets you where you are and doesn't leave you how it found you.

You want some grace in your life. You know, because you're never going to arrive perfectly at any place. I heard you talk. You talk about life and you talk about what defines our life, right? And you mentioned TVs, mentioned bad experiences, past relationships. And I also heard you talk about

trying to change that narrative so we have more positive experiences in our life. How do we do that? You know what? First of all, I always get asked the hard questions. I think by unpacking your baggage and examining your life slowly but surely. But examining it with love.

Because I think that how you love defines your life. I really do. I believe the people you come in contact with and how you love and your willingness to connect to them defines your life. If you talk to anyone who's passed and anyone that you've been in contact with that leaves a lasting impression on your life. It's people that literally in that moment of time that you saw them, even if it was just a minute or five years or 20 years or a week, they loved you. They wanted to connect with you. They wanted to leave something in you. I think that's what defines it. And it's like Brene Brown says, you are only as connected to other people as you are to yourself.

That's right. And a lot of people are not connected to themselves. They don't want to be. It's too much work. But I want to be. I do. I do. Are you searching for a new calling?

Because, you know, in the book you talk about how acting was your calling. And, you know, like now at this moment, do you feel like you're searching for a new calling? Maybe. Maybe I'm searching for a new calling. Someone said that I'm searching for agency. You know, I'm probably searching for that too. You know what I think I'm searching for? A life where I'm not leading it with so much fear. You talk about that a lot too. You don't want that to be the five words that anybody could say.

Yeah. You're still leading with fear at this point? Oh, I think, yeah, I think I have fear. I mean, I know you have fear, but are you leading with fear? I don't know how much I'm leading. There are times, sometimes I do. I do. I'm in the public eye. You know, I have one misstep and it's it's out there. Listen, I don't have the bandwidth for that.

I'm not I don't have the DNA for that. I don't. And I don't I don't really think anyone does. And if someone does, I don't believe you. I agree. Because people act like when you are when you become famous or a celebrity that you're supposed to understand this is what comes with it. And anybody can say anything about you. Absolutely.

But I also feel like it does still hurt and it's still not easy. Yes, absolutely. I'm not made of Teflon. Right. And it still does make you have some type of fear sometimes to take a risk or take a chance because you already know that, you know, people potentially will come at you. Every time you put yourself out there fear of exposure fear of fear of failure fear of all of that but like i said last night the one thing i will say about myself is it's like they say courage is just fear said with prayers that

i'm still willing to jump that's what I found out about the young Viola. Even when she was running from the bullies and sticking up her male finger. Even when she was still running, she was still fighting. She was a survivor. But the fear is still there. You talk about critics, too. What's your opinion on critics? I think you had an interesting take when you talked about critics and people critiquing your work.

Well, I believe that, once again, my quote was taken out of context. Might I add. Here's the thing. When you're an actor, to be a geek for 10 seconds or 20 seconds, when you're an actor, you create a character based on a human being, okay? You cannot be an actor in your room. You can be a painter in your room. You can't be an actor.

You can't put on your resume, I played King Lear in the basement of my apartment in the Bronx. You need an audience. You need a director. You need an audience. You need a director. You need a script. You need all of that. It's a collaborative art form that requires a lot of different artists to make it work. Okay. So if you're not contributing to the work and the enlightenment of the work, then the only thing you're doing is hurting. You're destroying. You're not awakening people up.

If you're not approaching it with an artistic aesthetic then the only thing that you're doing is what someone is doing, I don't know, on a takedown page. And if you're taking someone down, it's hurtful. And people need to know that there's someone on the other side of that. Even with a failed performance or performance you did not like that, that that has nothing to do with taking someone down. That does not give you the license to take someone down. You just don't like it. So that's all I meant with critics. I'm not saying I would never say that anyone is worthless. I would never say that.

That's not even my style, even in private. I don't say that. You could talk to my people. Okay. But if you're serving an artistic purpose, absolutely. But if you're not, you're just on a path to destroy. Michelle Obama reach out to you at all? Cause she's so connected to the culture that her people reach out to you and

say no. And she doesn't listen. Michelle Obama is a absolute goddess. Can we agree on that? Absolutely. OK. She doesn't have to reach out. She has a much higher calling. OK. That that is bigger than social media, than pop culture. There is something higher that she has to protect, you know. And and I recognize that and I respect that greatly. In my calling chapter, you know, when you talk about acting,

even though you found your calling, it still seemed you were dealing with imposter syndrome. Yeah. Have you gotten over that? No. No. And here's the thing. Once again, social media has bogarted the whole definition of what it means to be an artist.

And so everyone feels like being an artist is, you know, you've got to look the part. You've got to know what designers to wear. You've got to know what directors you want to work with and all of that has nothing to do with being an actor. Actors have a 95 percent unemployment rate. Less than one percent of the profession makes fifty thousand dollars a year or more. Point zero four percent of famous. OK. And. And here's the thing about actors, too. You always want to be better, especially if you have, especially if you want to be excellent and you finally see your work.

You're always thinking about something you could have done different. Everybody does it and everybody's afraid of being found out. It's just a part of what we do. I'm not saying it keeps you up at night. I'm not saying that it destroys you. I'm saying that it keeps you up at night. I'm not saying that it destroys you. I'm saying that it's sort of, and you know what? I think that everyone who has a higher image of their work, what they want to do, everyone has it.

Writers have it. I'm sure you have it to a certain extent of always wanting to be better. Even when someone says, oh, you were great, you're like, okay, thank you, but I could have done that one scene better. What role did you have you think was closest to perfection for you? Closest to it, not saying it was perfect, but for yourself, you feel like this is the one that was like, I killed it more than anything. You know that's a hard one. You know what I'm going to say, and I don't know why I keep it was very very small role that I had to and um get on up with Chadwick Boseman I played his mother I enjoyed that role

yeah she has two more minutes guys oh man oh you know what I want to tell you I saw Godfrey yesterday he said you guys were roommates for a hot second coming up. He was like, you're going to see Viola Davis. He was like, make sure you mention, you know, we were roommates. He said it was some crazy situation where, like, there was a lot of people living in the apartment. There was a lot of people. It was a very big apartment, Upper West Side. How many were living in the apartment?

There was only four of us living in the apartment. There was a, yeah. You had a lot of crazy living arrangements, Chyna, and that was one of them okay let me get two questions this is we about to go but you spoke about out-of-body experiences in the book and you know you had them when you were younger i totally understand that because i had those too but what do you think those experiences were trying to show us about ourselves? Just the infinite power we have in our minds. Infinite power to transport ourselves, to explore our imagination, which is an infinite field where we can redefine reimagine and the power to relieve

ourselves of the burden sometimes of negative negativity hmm that everything we have is within ourselves that's what it it taught me now I can't do it anymore so I don't know what that means. Yeah, it seemed like a thing that happened when you was young. When you get older, it don't happen anymore. Exactly. I guess, you know, the world gets at you, and the world begins to put up barriers around your life

and boundaries that you didn't have when you were younger. And, yeah, but I think that's what it teaches you is that everything you have you have within you and in the secret silent shame why that chapter why do you think we as black people think we're doing ourselves a favor by keeping secrets for me and it's just my opinion, I feel, especially as a black woman, that if I think shame is a big thing with black folk, and I think it's post-traumatic slave syndrome, that there's a lot of things that we weren't allowed to do. Look a white man in the eye, smile, look at a white man in the eye smile look at a white woman um there's so many things that we were punished for um but more importantly as a black woman i feel like a lot of times when i keep things in is because i know i'm not going to be protected i know that there's not going to be protected. I know that there's not going to be anyone out there that's going to

rescue me. And I'm not saying, I'm saying, I'm not saying that I need rescuing, but you know what? We need each other. We really do. And the lack of adoration, the lack of protection makes you keep things within and makes you try to just muster through and and strong back, even if you're broken inside. And and who cares about the inner pain of black folk? You better care, because certainly the culture in the past has not cared. And and we have an aversion to therapy as black folk. I think that's changing. I do think it's changing, too.

I completely agree with you. But I think that's why we keep things in. Blinding Me is out right now. We always ask everybody, Mount Rushmore of actors when they come. We do. Who is your Mount Rushmore? Don't do that with my daughter. Just her favorite.

Who is the Mount Rushmore of actors to you? Cicely Tyson. Yeah, Miss Tyson. I talked to her three hours before she passed. That's just, she was everything to me. I'm sorry. And that performance, to me, goes down as one of the greatest performances ever in the history of cinema. I still I don't even think they write roles like that anymore for actors, especially black actors, you know.

So absolutely. And as far as black actors, you know, I'd say this and I know Denzel probably is going to roll his eyes. But I'm sorry. I'm a friend and a fan. I think Denzel is fantastic. Absolutely. Great. But there's a lot of great actors out there. I love actors. Can't ask her. There you go.

And there's so many great topics in this book that I know we can go in depth on at a later time. Fiberoids, that's a topic we're always talking about up here with black women. I know you have the docuseries Hungry for Answers that I'm excited to talk about, too. So, you know, hopefully we'll get to continue the conversation about those things, too. And I love how you end the book because I've never heard somebody talk about their eight-year-old self protecting them now. It's always the other way around. So I just want to know how you even got to that point where you feel like the 8-year-old you is protecting you now.

A therapist told me that. He said, I don't think you need to heal the 8-year-old. I think the 8-year-old was pretty tough. She was a good cusser. You were a good cusser, you know. I listened to the Audible version. I'm like, yo, you like Samuel L. Jackson level cusser. You were a good cusser, you know. I looked at the Audible version. I'm like, yo, you like Samuel L. Jackson level cussing. You know I love it, right?

Well, congratulations on everything that you have going on. It's out right now. Pick it up. It's Viola Davis. It's the Breakfast Club. Good morning. Had enough of this country? Ever dreamt about starting your own?

I planted the flag. This is mine. I own this. It's surprisingly easy. 55 gallons of water, 500 pounds of concrete. Or maybe not. No country willingly gives up their territory. Oh my God.

What is that? Bullets. Listen to Escape from Zakistan. That's Escape from Z-A-Q-istan on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. After those runs, the conversations keep going. That's what my podcast Post Run High is all about. It's a chance to sit down with my guests and dive even deeper into their stories, their journeys, and the thoughts that arise once we've hit the pavement together. Listen to Post Run High on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Have grace with yourself. You're trying your best and you're going to figure out the rhythm of this thing. Alicia Keys, like you've never heard her before.

Listen to On Purpose with Jay Shetty on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts or wherever you get your podcasts. Hey, what's up? This is Ramses Jha. And I go by the name Q War. And we'd like you to join us each week for our show Civic Cipher. That's right. We discuss social issues, especially those that affect black and brown people, but in a way that informs and empowers all people. Hey, y'all. Niminy here. I'm the host of a brand new history podcast for kids and families called Historical Records.

Executive produced by Questlove, The Story Pirates, and John Glickman, Historical Records brings history to life through hip-hop. Each episode is about a different, inspiring figure from history, like this one about Claudette Colvin, a 15-year-old girl in Alabama who refused to give up her seat on the city bus nine whole months before

Rosa Parks did the same thing. Check it. And it began with me. Did you know, did you know? I wouldn't give up my seat. Nine months before Rosa, it was called a moment. Get the kids in your life excited about history by tuning in to Historical Records.

Because in order to make history, you have to make some noise. Listen to Historical Records on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.