The Bridge with Peter Mansbridge - An Inside Listen At The Pressures of Remote Learning

Episode Date: January 26, 2021

We take a gamble on this episode and try something very different.

and hello there peter mansbridge here the latest episode the bridge daily it's tuesday of week 46 and we're going to try something really different here. This is very different than anything we've tried before. It doesn't mean it won't work, but heads up, it's different. You know, for most of the last 46 weeks, I've been hearing from many of you in letters and emails, phone calls in some cases.

And some of those messages have come from parents who are, some of them seem at times at the end of their rope, that it's just really difficult in handling their own jobs while at home and raising their kids while they're at home, some on remote schooling, and some in preschool age, juggling all these different things with, of course, the overwhelming impact of the pandemic at the same time. So I've been trying to think of ways of like, how can this podcast get at that aside from reading letters, which have been great. And there have been some absolutely fantastic letters, which I appreciate greatly for your honesty and your abilities to explain the situation. So anyway, I thought, okay, well, let's try something here. And that's what we're going to do today. I found a couple, one who's a teacher who's having to teach from home and the other who is a professional of a different

type working in the media. Both are working from home. And they have two kids. One who is, I think, in grade two, little girl. And she's taking school from home, remote, learning, Zoom calls, the whole bit. And the other child is in daycare. And he's, I think, like three. But they're juggling all this because the kids, you know,

the daughter's home all the time. The little boy is home part of the time. They're both home part of the time. They're both home all of the time. And they're trying to do their normal jobs as well as everything else. So their situation is not unlike tens of thousands of other Canadians across the country. But I'm not sure how many of the rest of us get a glimpse into that kind of life and what it must be really like. And so I talked these two into talking about it, and that's what we're going to hear.

And they're at home. I got them on a Zoom call. One of them's teaching from the third floor. The other one's homeschooling from the second floor and doing, in this case, her own job as well for a network broadcast in Canada. So anyway, I wanted to say all of that, just kind of set this up. So you kind of get an

idea of what you're going to hear. So it's back and forth between floors, there are kids in and out of the rooms. It starts off, they're very quiet and people must be thinking, oh, what's the problem here? Sounds like peaceful. Then it eventually gets a little more realistic as the day goes on. But anyway, this is a glimpse. It's just a glimpse. It is what it is. And it's something very different for the bridge, but we thought we'd give it a whirl. So why don't you just listen and think about what you're hearing.

Here we go. So, Jonathan, let me start with you. You're parked on the third floor getting ready for class with your class. And I want to try and understand how you deal with that also while you're in a house with kids and dealing with kids as well. So tell us about your class, first of all, and how you deal with teaching remotely. Well, I guess one of the first skills, by the way, thanks for having me on your show, Peter. Hey, no problem.

I think one of the first skills I learned as a teacher is to improvise quickly. And I would say that has been pretty useful since the lockdown started in March. Luckily for myself, I feel like I had a little bit more background in the technology side. So I was able to sort of pivot quickly and figure everything out. This year, I had the added challenge of teaching a special needs class for autistic students. So that's been another additional learning curve. But I feel kind of lucky in that I had that sort of the lockdown in March to sort of figure out the technology side. And then this time around, I was a little

bit more prepared for teaching online. But it's definitely challenging. So just to give you an idea of my students, it's a very small class. Um, I have, um, you know, the four special needs students, but they, um, they have like, I would say, you know, their engagement level goes up and down. They have, uh, it's difficult for them to concentrate for long periods of time. So I kind of have to just think on my feet quickly and come up with lessons that are engaging for them. So I've been, you know, I've been trying to throw in as many multimedia things as I can. We just started using this application on the,

in the Google classroom called Jamboard, which is really cool because it's just like little sticky notes. you can pop up under the screen and the kids love that and they can customize their you know what they're writing about or put in a background that uh that's uh kind of um you know gives them a little bit of extra uh to individualize their work so they they've had they've been able to adapt to the technology just like you have exactly yeah and um uh i guess i you know i can't take all the credit but my principal encouraged us to get started early on with the google classroom and so in when i was fortunate enough to go back into a bricks and mortar school, and right from September, I said, okay, guys, let's get set up in the Google Classroom.

Here are the laptops. So they are already familiar. If I had to start from scratch, I think that would be a completely different situation. Okay. Let's bring Laura into the conversation here as well now, because she's on another floor, and she's trying to deal with homeschooling one of the kids and at the same time running in a senior role in one of the country's television networks. So how do you do that? You don't do it very well, I would say, is sort of the first thing.

So our daughter's in grade two um so she uh she has a a routine uh schedule that she's supposed to stick through through the day uh the teacher has laid out you know you're on class at 8 20 from 8 20 to 10 you're doing language and and and english and uh all of her verb tenses and her spelling tests. Then there's recess, then there's reading, then there's lunch, then there's gym, then there's art. So she's got a really, um, detailed schedule. Um, I would say, uh, every day, um, she is off schedule every day. We miss something every day. We're late for something. Um, uh, something um uh i had to go into the office um which i tend to have to do for for big events um and she missed three three classes um because she's seven and she can't tell

time and uh jonathan's teaching uh so so i uh you know our day starts very early. We get her on and then my day, my work day starts a little later. But you're constantly in a mode of doing at least two things. And if you're doing only two things, then you're in a good space. You're normally doing four things. You know, you've got your work, which you're only half engaged in. You've got your kids, which you're half engaged in. You're trying to figure out what they're going to eat because you suddenly look at the clock and you realize it's 1 p.m. and nobody's eaten lunch. It's it's melding all of your responsibilities as a parent into one really

muddy place. And that's hard to that's hard to take. And it's hard to keep straight. So so I'd say we're in a better place than we were in March. You know, if I look back to almost a year ago and the, you know, don't worry, we'll only be out of school for a couple of weeks that ended up the entire year. And it could be a long time. It absolutely could be. I mean, the idea that I wouldn't rule out the fact that maybe we won't be back in school again until September. If I could just add a little anecdote. So like Laura was saying, I think we were kind of doing a little bit of a tag team. I think Laura was probably doing the majority. But it sounded like we were in a bit of a routine. Like whenever she had recess and I had recess, I'd come check, oh, your math homework has done great. And so we were feeling really good about things.

And then Laura was doing a big special at CBC, so she had to leave for the office. And so I was on my own. And I kind of, you know, Laura walked out the door, Ella was in a room working, everything would seem so honky dory. And then when I, when I signed off my class and I went to check on Ella, she was downstairs watching TV. And I said, I told her, Oh, how was math today? Oh, I missed it.

I've been watching TV for like the last hour now the two of you are wrong in the system it's and everything sort of you know collapses it's like dominoes right like you miss one thing and the whole thing comes crashing down and you try to you try to give yourself a break like you try to be like no no it's cool like she just missed math but then you you go to do her math homework with her and such and uh and it's like i i really wonder like how much is sort of sinking in um for these kids and and uh and that's not on the teachers whatsoever who are amazing i mean if i had the patience of ella's grade two teacher we would be in a much different different situation but let me talk a little bit about that patience issue because, I mean, the two of you are making it sound like, wow, you know, it's an amazing challenge

and it is, you know, it's what we're all having to go through right now, but, you know, we're getting there and we're dealing with it and there are ups and downs. But this sounds like a super stressful situation to me i mean you're you're doing in effect you know twice as much as you normally do and you're dealing with you know both of you're dealing with you know kids lives and kids education um as well as in lar's case, her other job. How do you deal with the stress end of all this?

Who wants to take a run at that first? I can start. So it's great that it comes across somewhat as we're kind of making it work, because I don't think we're making it work, not from a mental health point of view, right? Like, you worry about your kids, you worry about yourselves, but you don't think we're making it work. Not from a, not from a mental health point of view, right? Like it's, you worry about your kids, you worry about yourselves, but you don't actually have time to worry about yourself. If that makes sense. Like at the end of the day, I just feel drained. Like I feel exhausted and I shouldn't feel as exhausted as I do, but every day it sort of compounds a little bit more because you're you're dealing with your children, making sure that they're happy, making sure that they're at school, making sure, frankly, on some days that they're well fed, that they're, you know, that they know what's coming next, that they feel secure, but you're also dealing with the virus and you're making sure that you're being safe and that, and you're worried about everything sort of going on. So

I would say mentally it's a, it's a huge stress. And I think, and I can't speak for, for Jono, but from my perspective, also, I tend to kind of really throw myself into everything. So if I don't feel like I'm doing my best at any one of those 12 responsibilities, you immediately feel like you're failing. And that is a very, very hard thing to feel. If you're, you know, as I am as in a senior position, as a mom, as all of those things, it just, it, it, it feels a little bit, it feels a little bit crushing. And, and there are those small victories that you get that can kind of perk you up. But, but I would say, because all of your responsibilities are coming crashing into each other, there is no, there are no lines that you can draw. There are no, I'm on work now,

now I'm a mom, now I'm cooking dinner, now I'm doing this, doing everything at once. And that's what's so difficult. Yeah, I mean, just to add to what Laura's saying, the mental stress gets to it. But I think we, I think we, we, I definitely worry about my kids. And I think what, what I sort of, what keeps me calm is that this is a temporary situation. You know, I, you know, is my daughter, does she need more practice at addition? Probably. And that's something I'm going to, I know I'm going to have to invest more time with her at some point, hopefully in the near future. But yeah, I mean, it's definitely a challenge and it's something I worry about,

but I also try to be flexible. Just to give you an example, I'll be teaching and Ella will just wander into the room and I'll just go with the flow and say, hey kids, I mean, this is my daughter and she's in grade two and she's learning online just like you are. And they actually love, love to see that. I'm a teacher, but I'm also a parent. I'm trying to do two things at once and they seem okay with that too. So are there days where you feel like you're losing it? Like it's just too

much. Like this is not what you signed up for i'll jump in first and i'll just say i would say by the time bedtime rolls around both of our nerves are so frayed that the slightest thing can set us off and sometimes i just have to take a deep breath and be like all right we'll just get them to bed and then we can actually relax. And, you know, sometimes I need a nightcap or something to just chill my nerves. And that's more so than the situation before the pandemic, right? I would say so, yes. Those kind of days are more frequent now than before. I feel like it's every day.

It feels like every day you're just trying to get to the end um of the day which which sucks because you you know you want to you've got this weird opportunity where you're working from home you're spending more time with your kids than you ever have um you know jonna won't like me to out him but like he's wearing sweatpants when he's teaching like there are all these like little perks um and i i and i don't think that you know i look on i look on social media of some of my friends and and hear about all these things that people are doing through the pandemic. Like, you know, we started building giant Lego sets and now we're all watercolor painters and, uh, you know, and, and, and you don't like, I guess I don't feel like I'm succeeding in it or that I'm taking advantage of the good things in it. Uh, and yeah,

like I, there are days when John is much more patient than i am you know uh the kids are freaking out at bedtime and i'm i'm like this close to really exploding and he can normally see that and say you go sit down um because uh yeah i would say like i would say 85 percent of the time i feel like i'm losing it and's, it takes a lot to keep it together. And, and I'm not an overly calm person and I'm hard on myself. And now I'm finding that I'm being hard on my kids and hard, probably hard on Jonathan too, because you, you sort of exude that,

that stress and that frustration and that feeling like you're losing it, feeling like you're failing on everything else. You know, we've talked about Ella, and clearly these two are perfectly behaved today. Oh, yeah. But there are two, and we never hear about the little guy, and that's because in a way you've been pardoned on Jasper

in the sense that he has daycare. So he, in fact, is out because it's still operational. It is. He's three. He's in daycare. I have no problem saying, and I've said this to my work, if daycare closes, I have to take the leave from my job because it's that difficult.

And in March, it was next to impossible. But I do, and John can speak more to this too. There is the stress of him going to daycare too. Like, yes, we're really lucky. We're both employed. Our families are healthy. Our son is in daycare too. Like, yes, we're really lucky. We're both employed. Our families are healthy. Our son is in daycare. Our daughter is laid back.

But you worry, you worry about him getting sick. We try to be extra careful because those poor people working at the daycare with our snotty nose kid, along with all the other germy kids, you know, you want to make sure that they are safe and protected. And the reality of getting Jasper out the front door in the morning to daycare while getting Ella onto her school and Jono prepping for his class

and me reading enough about the news events of the day to get onto my first meeting like that hour and a half or two hours in the morning from about six to eight can be chaos um and now we have the added uh thing of jasper not wanting to go out the door daycare because his sister's not in the car with him why does ally get to stay home with mom and dad and he has to go to daycare um he loves it he's happy by the time he gets there but um it's uh it is it is a challenge and and um you know my work takes me into the evening uh it sort of is a later day where John O's day wraps up early, but my work takes me into the evening. When Jasper comes home, it is almost impossible to get anything done. So there are a lot of days where I'll take a pause from about five.

He comes home around four. I can normally get an hour with him sort of either in front of the television or running around. But from about 530 to 830, it's almost impossible for me to get work done. So frequently I'm working from 830 to 11 at night just to catch up on the work that I couldn't do through the day, 830 to 11 or even sometimes midnight. So, you know, it's a long day. Let me try and move this forward a little bit. And John, maybe you can try to handle this. I mean, none of us have tried to, or none of us have been through anything like this before in our lives. And history doesn't

really give us many examples of trying to understand what it could be like in terms of the impact on a society, on a community. But, you know, there is going to be a point at which this ends, right? And we are going to return to some sense of normalcy. It won't be anything like what it was like before, but it'll be closer to that than it is right now. The question I'm wondering about, and I don't know whether either of you have had any time to even think about this. What do you think the impact all this is going to have on your lives after it's over, when it ends? I mean, how you look at family, how you look at your jobs, how you look at each other, how you look at yourselves.

What's likely the impact going to be? Well, you know, I think, I think we'll appreciate certain things more. I mean, I definitely appreciate spending a little extra time with the family, not having to worry about commuting, but you know, some of those family, you know, family trips that we're missing out on. We try to do some outdoor activities, but I'm thinking specifically of skiing. When I was younger, I had an opportunity to get out on the slopes and learn that skill really early on. I wanted to do that for my kids,

but I feel like this has been sort of a lost year because all of the ski slopes in in um in ontario are shut down right now and um you know that was something i was actually looking forward to this winter because we kind of missed out last year as well um i'm already looking forward to certain things and special moments you make as a family that you appreciate so much

but that's not to say that we're not doing fun things now I mean like I take the kids to the backyard every day and we go around on the scooters and the kids have been the best of it and that's one great thing about kids is I feel like they're pretty adaptable um and that's why i think they're going to be okay but um what gets me through every day is just knowing that this is temporary and you know we keep telling ourselves that anyway right

what about you laura what's i don't know whether you heard the question but it's basically what do you think the impact's going to be for you when this actually ends for you and your family and your job and all of that um i don't think i don't like from a from a broader social perspective i don't i don't know what the impact is going to be i don't think I don't like from a, from a broader social perspective, I don't, I don't know what the impact is going to be. I don't think we know yet. Um, sorry for the noise in the background. This is how, just as an FYI, this is how all my meetings go.

Like they're pretty smooth for like 10, 15 minutes. And then now they're like all the markers get dumped out on the bed and who knows how many of them have their caps on. So that's what's happening now. Yeah. But, um, uh, it's funny. So I was looking, I was looking through my phone the other day and, um, all of the pictures that I've taken over the last 10 months are of like my super smiley, happy kids feeling really like looking really cute and all of the fun things that we did. And like, so part of me hopes that in the future we look back on them and those are the memories that kind of come through.

But I think for me, appreciating that separation from work and home, which I never was really good at before. Like even when I was at the office, like I'd come home and I'd still be attached to my phone or I'd still be working and I'd still be doing things late into the night. It's obviously exacerbated now, but I think I will try to the best of my ability to really look for that separation between work and home in a way that I haven't in the past because I think having everything crash into each other here when you are at home means that it's just it's so much harder to do so I'd like to try to say that that's one thing that I'll try to change in the future um but but impact wise like I I don't know like I I honestly think there is going to be a huge um a huge mental health impact on parents um on relationships um on, I don't know how much on kids, but then before, and I,

you know, I think about, I think about doctors and nurses and the staff in hospitals and, and the, you know, the PTSD that will probably come from some of this stuff but then I think about teachers too like I look at Jono's work and Jasper and I think you know he's an amazing teacher but one of his kids doesn't wear a mask he can't wear a mask so am I happy he's remote teaching yeah but uh i you know signing up every day to uh to go into a classroom um in this sort of with this kind of clear and present danger isn't what teachers signed up for either or educational assistants or janitors or principals um you know as a journalist it's a little bit what we signed up for when we go in and we speak to people, but nobody signed up for the pandemic. And I think the gravity of what we're living through will have both kind of positive and negative consequences as we kind of look to how it affects us in the future. I think that's a really good point and a good point to leave this really

fascinating conversation. And I really appreciate the two of you letting us into your home and letting us into your lives of trying to juggle all of this because I think it's something that many of us who don't have to do this haven't quite figured out, and those of us who just kind of sit at home for the day because we've been told to stay home and, you know, we can watch Netflix or do whatever we do.

And meanwhile, you're juggling all these things. Can I just say, though, Peter, like we're really lucky. Like we know how lucky we are. We're two employed people with, you know, two healthy kids and and and and jobs that allow us for the most part to work from home, at least right now. And, you know, I think about all of the people who are, you know, essential workers and in a real way who are having to go in who um you know have parents to take care of as well as kids and such so i don't want it to be lost that we don't feel lucky in our situation but i i do think that parents with small kids um are struggling more than than perhaps our our colleagues and our friends and our families kind of realize. I just want to add too, after the first lockdown,

I think we were both feeling, we both had cabin fever so much. The first thing we did was go and find a place with a backyard. So that helped a lot this time as well. So I wanted to emphasize that we do absolutely feel lucky because we know not everyone has those same opportunities. Yeah, you're right about that. There are some very difficult situations out there, and we have to appreciate the small pleasures that we have,

and you clearly have two small ones in your lives. Is that what you call them, pleasures? Well, we've had the opportunity to listen to for the last little while. Listen, once again, I thank you both. You know, giving us this sense is really helpful to the rest of us who aren't faced with the kind of challenges that you two are and are doing an amazing job with. So thank you both.

Thanks, Peter. Thanks for having us. Well, I thank Jonathan and Lara for letting us in, giving us a peek inside their home while they're trying to juggle all these different things about life right now. It's a challenge, and I've got to tell you, I hand it to them and to all the others around the country who are in similar situations. I mean, we focus so much on frontline health care workers and grocery store clerks and farmers and truck drivers and post office workers and you name it, and for good reason.

They have been heroes. There's a lot of heroes sitting at home too who are juggling their lives, both personal and professional, and their kids' lives. And I'm glad we've had the opportunity to have this little glimpse into, in this case, their lives. All right, tomorrow is Wednesday. It's Wednesday, like any other Wednesday. It's Smoke, Mirrors, and the Truth.

Bruce Anderson will join us. We're still tossing around ideas on what we're going to talk about. We have a couple of good ideas, actually. And you can be sure, whatever it is, by tomorrow we'll cook it up good. So until then, I'm Peter Mansbridge. This has been The Bridge. Thanks for listening. We'll be back in 24 hours. Thank you.